India-US Strategic News and Discussion

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19335
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by NRao »

Cosmo_R
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3407
Joined: 24 Apr 2010 01:24

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Cosmo_R »

All over the map. US won't share tech. India can't produce, is not focused on self reliance yada yada.

BC is getting very old hat
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 60278
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by ramana »

Rudradev wrote:By the way, you know the old fabrication by US apologists that America only tilted towards Pakistan during the 1971 war because Yahya Khan was offering Nixon and Kissinger an opening to China?

It's complete rubbish. Winston Lord, Kissinger's deupty at the time, testifies to this unequivocally in Gary Bass' book "The Blood Telegram". He mentions that the US had an equally promising avenue to Beijing via Ceaucescu in Romania, among several other options for a conduit that would have totally bypassed Pakistan. If befriending PRC was the only motive, Washington could very well have chosen some other conduit than Islamabad.

American support for Pakistan in 1971 was not at all necessitated by the China gambit, as MUTU apologists would have you believe... it was Washington's own independently considered policy to aid Pakistan against India under any and all circumstances, and this would have obtained regardless of any initiative to make contact with Beijing.

If you have not read "The Blood Telegram", please do so. I am learning something new, fascinating, and usually highly significant with each new page if not each new paragraph.
Rony
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3513
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 23:29

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Rony »

The Blood Telegram: Nixon, Kissinger, and Forgotten Genocide

CRamS
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6865
Joined: 07 Oct 2006 20:54

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by CRamS »

As much as I like most of what Garby Bass has to say, I am also a little troubled that he falls in the familiar "South Asia expert" mode when he explains away TSP's abominable behavior:

1. TSP uses terrorist groups to ward of the "threat" a bigger and more powerful India poses to TSP
2. Even though he does cast TSPA's actions a genocide, he is still loath to quote the real #. He says 200K according CIA estimates (yeah right CIA is the paragon of truth), and he attributes lot of deaths due to insanitary conditions in refugee camps, not TSP brutality

3. He either downplays or at best grudgingly acknowledges that there was a humanitarian motive to India's intervention, he talks about Indian fear of Bengali refugees becoming Marxist guerrillas, India wanting to hit TSP, but as I said very little on India's humanitarian reasons

4. Finally, very little on the TFTA Nazisque mindset of TSP Pakijabis that persists to this day that led to that genocide. Instead, just a surface level criticism of TSP, not the kind of analyses one sees when US scholars say talk about Nazis, or any other dark side of history that is in their interest to cast in the most evil of terms.

5. Does not explain why TSP is a USA munna even today. In other words, he does not talk about USA's unspoken of but cast-in-stone geo-strategic policy of strict balance between TSP abomination and democratic India.
vishvak
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 5836
Joined: 12 Aug 2011 21:19

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by vishvak »

Very clearly the people who talk of Indian intervention in Bangla don't talk of shameful US and western allies' behaviour in UN against Indian intervention to stop genocide in Bangla.

That behavior is totally barbaric and unacceptable for any country facing such a situation and especially Bangla Hindus facing genocide for months. The shameful behaviour in UN was a well planned step by step diplomatic offensive to not allow Indian army stop a genocide ongoing by their strategic allie pakis.
Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21537
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Philip »

The Pakis are afraid of growing Indo-US ties.But is the US playing both sides in order to further its own interests in the region and beyond? Uncle Sam is pushing India towards joining the US led anti-China military axis,involving Oz,Japam,Singapore,SoKo,Taiwan,the Phillipines,and hopefully Vietnam too.But on the western front,it supports Pak to the hilt,turning a blind eye to ist terrorist war against India,in order to mollycuddle the Paki military.Here,India is an "expendable" entity.The US cares a hoot about anti-Indian terror that emanates from Pak,as has been seen in their cover-up of their knowledge of 26/11 through Headley-Gilani.Why is it supporting overtly and covertly the anti-Indian BNP in BDesh and using max. efrort to oust pro-India Hasina? India has told the US of the dangers to India,BD becoming another Afghanistan,but it cares little for India's concerns.

It has its own "Great Game" agenda for the sub-continent and the Asia-Pacific region.We are fast becoming the "patsy".

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/n ... 426665.ece
The latest edition of the Pakistan Army’s Green Book, a prestigious internal publication with essays by serving officers, reveals mounting fears among its officer corps that the deepening India-United States strategic relationship could pose a threat to the country.

Major-General Shaukat Iqbal, one of the most senior officers writing in the 2011 Green Book, describes what he calls an emerging “Indo-U.S. nexus.”

His essay argues that geo-strategic developments show “all conspiracy theories are getting materialised and [the] Great Game played in the region is posing a serious threat to the security and integrity of Pakistan.”

The two countries hope Pakistan “is tamed and sufficiently weakened to act in form of colonised state which should serve U.S. interest and oblige to the dictates of India” [sic.].

He writes that the United States wishes to “use the war on terrorism as an instrument [to] get [the] Pakistan Army bogged down, weakening its war stamina [and] creating a wedge between religious forces and the Army”. It is also, he says, “disreputing [sic.] and maligning the Pakistan Army and the ISI through actions like [the] raid on Osama Bin Laden’s complex.”

The essay says India has expansionist ambitions, quoting Prime Minister Indira Gandhi — without citation — as saying she would never forgive her forefathers “for accepting the division of India,” and vowing to undo it.

‘India posing threat’

Major-General Ashgar Nawaz, writing on the United States’ interests in South Asia, asserts that Pakistan’s traditional superpower ally is “as much a liability as a friend.” The United States help has allowed New Delhi to “employ contemporary Afghanistan as a springboard for fomenting terrorist activity and instability in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas [FATA] belt on [the] Pak-Afghan border.”

In recent years, Pakistani commentators and politicians have repeatedly claimed that India is supporting elements of the Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan, notably its new Afghanistan-based commander,

General Nawaz writes, in support of his claim of hostile Indian intentions, that in the wake of 9/11, it “nominated Lt. Gen. [Lieutenant-General] (retd) Sawhney, ex Chief of RAW, as their Ambassador in Kabul.”

In fact, India’s first Ambassador to Afghanistan after 9/11 was career diplomat Vivek Katju. RAW has never been led by a Lieutenant-General, serving or retired, nor anyone called Sawhney. The reference may be to the former Director-General of Military Intelligence, Lieutenant-General Ravi Sawhney, has travelled regularly to Afghanistan in various capacities.


“I think the interesting thing here is not what the essays say, but the fears that underpin them,” says Sushant Sareen, a Pakistan expert at the Institute for Defence Studies and Analyses in New Delhi. “There is clearly a pathology at work, which does not allow itself to be inconvenienced by facts.”

Long-standing fears

Fears of Indian expansion have figured prominently in earlier editions of the Green Book, too. The 2010 edition began with an essay by Brigadier Umar Farooq Durrani on “Indian-backed Psychological Warfare Against Pakistan.”

It asserted that the RAW “funds many Indian newspapers and even television channels, such as Zee Television, which is considered to be its media headquarters to wage psychological war.”

“The most subtle form” of this psychological war, the Brigadier stated, “is found in movies where Muslim and Hindu friendship is screened within [sic.] the backdrop of melodrama.” “The effects desired to be achieved through this,” he argued, “is to undermine the Two National Theory [as] being a person obsession of [Pakistan’s founding father, Muhammad Ali] Jinnah.”

Interestingly, there is no discussion in the 2011 Green Book of Pakistan’s war against Islamist groups like the Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan in Punjab and Khyber Pakhtunkhwa.

However, several chapters are devoted to addressing the conventional and nuclear challenges posed by India, and two to the Army’s campaign against ethnic-Baloch insurgent and terrorist groups.

Published every two years by the Pakistan Army’s General Headquarters in Rawalpindi, the Green Book provides rare insights into the organisation’s internal debates. In his foreword to the 2011 edition, the former Army chief, Gen. (retd.) Pervez Kayani, describes it as “a platform where the intellectual context of national security can be crystallised.”
Lalmohan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13257
Joined: 30 Dec 2005 18:28

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Lalmohan »

is the green book available on line? promises to be a comedy classic
arun
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10248
Joined: 28 Nov 2002 12:31

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by arun »

US spy agency, the CIA, via its venture capital arm, In-Q-Tel, has funded the company that is expected to help in capturing and analysing data related to the plan to issue a unique identity number ie: Aadhaar. Eco Times article datelined Dec 3:

MongoDB startup hired by Aadhaar got funds from CIA VC arm

Meanwhile in an article datelined the next day, Dec. 4, Hindustan Times reports on India lodging a protest with the US with regard to spying by the US:

India protests, alleges US political, commercial spying

GOI needs to ensure that Indian tax payer money does not windup subsidising US spying of Indians.
anmol
BRFite
Posts: 1922
Joined: 05 May 2009 17:39

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by anmol »

:evil:
So it looks like America have patented filming of people teaching yoga. Now they will ask India to tell Ramdev to stop stealing American Intellectual Property.
Yogaglo Patent Issued
by Yoga International, yogainternational.com
December 10th 2013

On September 23rd, Yoga International broke the news that they (among others) had received a cease-and-desist letter from another website which also offers yoga videos for streaming (soon revealed to be YogaGlo). It turns out, that YogaGlo had filed a patent application for their method of filming online yoga classes, and that some of YI’s early content fell under the broad description in the patent application:

“...instructor at the head of the classroom with live-participants arranged between the instructor and the camera with a direct line of sight between the camera and the instructor allowing for the viewer participant to have unobstructed views while simultaneously allowing for the viewer participant to have live participants in the periphery, as if the viewer was attending a live class."

“We quickly realized the implications of this patent,” says Yoga International Executive Director Todd Wolfenberg. “It is a landmark issue that impacts the future of how yoga is delivered, which increasingly includes online and video study. And if YogaGlo can patent one way of filming a class, pretty soon all possible angles could become patented. So this this isn’t just about us, it’s really about the entire community and the future direction of yoga.”

The response was initially—well, intense. Teachers and students alike were quick to comment, and took to both Yoga International and YogaGlo’s Facebook pages to express their concern and confusion. Many announced that they were cancelling their accounts with YogaGlo. As word spread, blog posts popped up on YogaDork and Elephant Journal addressing the patent application. Soon,Yoga Alliance stepped in to take action as well, creating a petition (which received over 14,000 signatures) urging YogaGlo to voluntarily withdraw the application.

Though the initial response was strong, the public outcry eventually died down. While many were offended by the audacity of the patent application, citing it as predatory, frivolous, or just an affront to yogic principles in general, the all around consensus from its critics seemed to be that the patent was too broad and far-reaching to ever be issued. Eventually, the outrage died down, and so did the blog posts and comments.

I mean, honestly, none of us really thought YogaGlo’s patent would be approved right? Except for it was.

I mean, honestly, none of us really thought YogaGlo’s patent would be approved right? Except for it was. Wait, what? Uh-huh. In case you missed it, Yoga Alliance broke the news today—the day the patent was issued.
So What Happened Exactly?

As you might remember from a couple months back, YogaGlo applied for two really similar patents. Initially, both were rejected by the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO) based upon the existence of “prior art”—which is essentially evidence that the thing a patent is filed for already existed before said patent was filed. On October 7th, however, YogaGlo amended one of its previously rejected patent applications, adding the following caveat:That the camera used to record online yoga classes must "provide a participatory view [which means ‘a view observed by a participant in the rear of the class,’ according to YogaGlo] from a height of about three feet."

Apparently, that did the trick. On October 29th, the patent was approved.
The Problems with Patents

US patents can be a tricky business. In fact, Last Thursday (December 5th), the U.S. House of Representatives approved a bill targeting “patent trolls” (also known as patent assertion entities)—companies or individuals that license or buy patents from others so that they can enforce the patent and collect licensing fees, even though the enforcer themselves does not make products or offer services that relate to the patent in question. (A similar measure is currently being considered by the senate.)

This particular bill does NOT apply to, and would not affect the YogaGlo situation. The patent that YogaGlo has been issued directly relates to a product/service that they DO offer, and no matter what you might think about YogaGlo’s business ethics, it is not appropriate to refer to them, or President Derik Mills (who could not be reached for comment for this article) as “patent trolls.”

What we CAN perhaps take away from this though, is that there is a disconnect between how and why many Americans feel patents should be issued/enforced, vs. what is actually going on—so much so that the majority of our representatives (the House bill passed 325 to 91), and even the White House (which this past June, called for action against frivolous patent lawsuits), see a need for reform.

“The community reacted negatively [to the YogaGlo patent],” says Yoga Alliance President and CEO Richard Karpel. “Patent law is complicated. Most people don’t know exactly what’s patentable and what isn’t, but I think people just had a gut reaction about this—that a method for video recording a live yoga class isn’t something that should be patentable.”
Yoga Alliance to the Rescue?

So is that it? Is it all over? Yoga Alliance says “not so fast.”

In a statement issued today, Karpel says that:

“Under U.S. patent laws, applicants must apply for a patent within one year after they initially use their invention in the normal course of business. We have learned that video material on YogaGlo's own website predates its original filing on Aug. 27, 2010 by more than one year, and duplicates the system and method of recording a yoga class that YogaGlo is trying to patent. That video material clearly constitutes prior art that invalidates the claims in YogaGlo's patent and renders it unenforceable.”

So what does this mean exactly? It means that while the patent was issued, Yoga Alliance believes it to be unenforceable, and they intend to prove it.
Why has Yoga Alliance Taken a Stand?

Last September, Yoga Alliance’s stance against the YogaGlo patent, and the petition that followed came as a surprise to many. In the past, Yoga Alliance has had a reputation among its members for... well, not really taking a stance on much of anything, but it appears as though that’s quickly changing.

But why this? Why now? “Because it’s a matter that’s of importance to our members,” states Karpel. “The yoga community looks to us for representation, and we are at the best position to be able to represent teachers, schools, and studios on this issue.”

While some have accused critics of the YogaGlo patent as being anti-business, Karpel assures us that’s not Yoga Alliance’s intent. “We have nothing against patents,” he assures. “Yoga Alliance supports intellectual property; we understand what it means to devote a lot of work to an idea and to have someone take it, we get that.This particular patent that YogaGlo is applying for though doesn’t seem to us to be that kind of idea that needs that kind of protection. It’s an obvious idea. It just shocks the conscience that someone could actually get a patent and prevent someone else from [executing an] idea that is that simple. Even if YogaGlo was the first to come up with this idea—and there are people that contest that—but even if they were, it’s not the kind of idea that deserves legal protection.”
So What Does This Mean For You?

So how will the YogaGlo patent affect individual teachers? Should we be concerned that we might be in violation of YogaGlo’s patent? If so, what should we do? “If teachers are filming live classes, yes, they should be concerned,” says Karpel (who himself holds a Juris Doctorate from Chicago-Kent College of Law). “My recommendation would be, number one, follow this case, because ultimately, if this patent is not enforceable—and we think it won’t be—then they have nothing to worry about. But if it is enforceable, then if you’re going to film a live yoga class, you’re going to have to get an attorney to read the patent claim so that you understand exactly what it is, and to make sure that you’re not violating YogaGlo’s patent, because certainly if you do, you’re going to hear about it from YogaGlo.”

You heard that right. If the patent is indeed enforceable, that could mean having to consult a lawyer before you film yourself teaching. Yikes! Who wants (and who can afford) to do that?

You heard that right. If the patent is indeed enforceable, that could mean having to consult a lawyer before you film yourself teaching. Yikes! Who wants (and who can afford) to do that? Ultimately, I think that speaks to the reason why this patent rubbed so many of us the wrong way in the first place—the implication that money and access to lawyers should dictate who does and doesn’t get to share their teaching online.

At this point in time, Karpel doesn’t see huge implications for the community in general, “but if the patent was to be enforceable, I think it probably would raise questions in the minds of other online yoga providers to start thinking about whether or not they need to patent any obvious ideas.”
What Does Yoga Alliance Intend to Do Exactly?

While Karpel couldn’t tell me specifically how Yoga Alliance plans to take action at this time, he assures that action will indeed be taken. “There’s a number of different options,” he says, “we just don’t know yet which approach we’re going to take. What I can say is that we are committed to doing what we can to defeat the patent. We’re committed to representing the yoga community’s interests on this issue, and we’ll do what it takes, and devote the resources needed to do it.”
Gus
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8220
Joined: 07 May 2005 02:30

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Gus »

http://www.hindustantimes.com/world-new ... 62085.aspx
Khobragade is currently employed as the Deputy Consul General for Political, Economic, Commercial and Women's Affairs at the Consulate General of India in New York.

Khobragade was charged with one count of visa fraud and one count of making false statements, which carry maximum sentences of ten years and five years in prison, respectively.

According to the allegations in the criminal complaint in Manhattan federal court, Khobragade prepared and electronically submitted an application for an A-3 visa, which is a US visa for domestic workers and servants, through the website for the US Department of State's Consular Electronic Application Center for an Indian national who was to be the personal employee of Khobragade beginning in November 2012 in New York.

The Visa Application stated that the Indian worker employed by Khobragade was to be paid $4,500 per month. According to an employment contract, Khobragade would pay the domestic help the prevailing or minimum wage, whichever is greater, resulting in an hourly salary of $9.75.

However, the domestic help worked for Khobragade as a household employee from approximately November 2012 through approximately June 2013. The domestic help worked far more than 40 hours per week and was paid less than $9.75 per hour.
this allegation of abuse of domestic help has come before too, right?
svenkat
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4727
Joined: 19 May 2009 17:23

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by svenkat »

I think theres shadow boxing here.ramanaji says that our Foreign Secretary has gone to US to get custody of Dawood Gilani.
Neela
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4134
Joined: 30 Jul 2004 15:05
Location: Spectator in the dossier diplomacy tennis match

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Neela »

Can the US arrest a diplomat of another country? Looks like she has surrendered her passport for bail. Dont diplomatic passports have immunity for certain kinds of crime?
chaanakya
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9513
Joined: 09 Jan 2010 13:30

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by chaanakya »

Not for this offense as far as I know. She has diplomatic immunity unless expressly waived off. KP Singh was making a point that with the salary Deputy Counselor General Would get, it would be impossible to pay the salary mandated for domestic servant. Hence this is just a formality which is used to pass over the rule and grant visa for domestic help and it was with tacit understanding. In any case offense is not such as to revoke diplomatic immunity.

India summons US envoy Nancy Powell over arrest of diplomat in New York

NEW DELHI: India has summoned US ambassador Nancy Powell over the arrest of one of its diplomats in New York.

Devyani Khobragade, a mid-level Indian diplomat, was served the arrest warrant when she was dropping her daughters to school on Thursday morning. She was later released by a Manhattan court on a $ 250,000 bond on Thursday evening.

Earlier, the Indian government reacted strongly to the treatment meted out to the diplomat.

India is shocked and appalled by what the US has done to its diplomat in New York, the ministry of external affairs said in a statement.

Calling the US action unacceptable, the MEA statement said India will forcefully take up the issue with the US.

Manhattan US Attorney Preet Bharara's office portrayed the Indian diplomat as having fraudulently brought a domestic help from India by promising mandatory US wages ($ 9.75 per hour) and underpaying her ($ 3.11 per hour)
.
CRamS
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6865
Joined: 07 Oct 2006 20:54

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by CRamS »

I think handuffing a senior diplomat is a disgrace and shows the utmost dis-respect. This wasn't a crime of such proportions that would merit this kind of treatment. Usually, the jack booted fat cat thugs in US law enforcement, most of them from small red town America, having nothing much to do, and when they bust someone foreign, especially black or brown or Asain looking, they make a huge show and dance to show off their relevance. Its a f^&*ing disgrace. And the useless media will then have a field day. Did they bring in the Al Queda angle yet?

It just shows the power disparity between India & US, the abject colonial minded weakness we have. A few years ago, Obama's white house press secretary showed goondagiri with India security officials. Instead of treating the b@stard like a common criminal and shoving him into some jail, out guys bent over backwards. US shows no such respect, unless of course, its someone from lily white European country, or from Israel. Of course, if someone from Israel suffered even a fraction of this kind of humiliation, NYT will carry front page on anti-simistism in law enforcement and re-visit the holocaust.
CRamS
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6865
Joined: 07 Oct 2006 20:54

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by CRamS »

Manhattan US Attorney Preet Bharara's office portrayed the Indian diplomat as having fraudulently brought a domestic help from India by promising mandatory US wages ($ 9.75 per hour) and underpaying her ($ 3.11 per hour)[/b].
Has this rank Uncle Tom Preet Bharara gone after anybody other than Indians and look alikes with the same vigor that he has gone after Indians. Whats his next promotion for a job "well done". This is like the colonial era where the colonial masters let loose the native policeman to go after their own and sit back and watch the fun.
vishvak
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 5836
Joined: 12 Aug 2011 21:19

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by vishvak »

So much for licking up to unkil. But unkil is most powerful, and hence, most civilized no?

US embassy staff, who can't behave in the most civilized behavior and no less, should be subjected to no less harsh treatment - including handcuffs and media scrutiny.
TSJones
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3022
Joined: 14 Oct 1999 11:31

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by TSJones »

Domestic abuse and human trafficking has become a major issue in the US. Like it or not, people from India have become one of the hot points in this issue. Human trafficking and domestic abuse receives a lot of public scrutiny in the news.

It seems to me the police should have been knowledgable about diplomatic immunity laws or at least checked with the district attorney. You never can tell about what the police might do or what they might act on. I've seen raids conducted on the flimsiest of excuses. Then other times you can't get them to act. :(
vishvak
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 5836
Joined: 12 Aug 2011 21:19

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by vishvak »

Domestic abuse and human trafficking are important issues anywhere and diplomats in any country cannot expect to be immune just because say being USA citizen.
Hitesh
BRFite
Posts: 792
Joined: 04 Jul 1999 11:31

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Hitesh »

Then it is time to start rounding up the U.S. diplomats for any trangression they commit on Indian soil and throw the book at them and march them down the "Walk of Shame" Do it against 5 people for every one Indian diplomat arrested in US.

If America protests, give them the middle finger.

And if the US Attorney shows up in India, he should get no protection and he should be arrested at the slightest infraction of law and if any of his bodyguards interverne, they should be arrested for unlawfully interfering with an official authorized indian police act and be arrested.

I hope these ******** get bail bonds of $10 million or more. We should do the same thing for US senators and visiting federal judges.

But I have little faith in the current GoI government for having any backspine.
JwalaMukhi
BRFite
Posts: 1635
Joined: 28 Mar 2007 18:27

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by JwalaMukhi »

chaanakya wrote:Not for this offense as far as I know. She has diplomatic immunity unless expressly waived off. KP Singh was making a point that with the salary Deputy Counselor General Would get, it would be impossible to pay the salary mandated for domestic servant. Hence this is just a formality which is used to pass over the rule and grant visa for domestic help and it was with tacit understanding. In any case offense is not such as to revoke diplomatic immunity.
Officially president of India is the highest paid and was paid $2500 per month in 2009. Even with inflation and other hikes it would not be double in 2013.
Paying minimum wage to the aide would come close to $1500 per month at 40 hrs a week.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_India
Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66589
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Singha »

I think diplomats posted abroad would get higher salary based on posting, and things like housing lease taken care of, based on grade level?
I dont see how anyone can survive in NYC, let alone put kids in school on just $2000/pm.
JwalaMukhi
BRFite
Posts: 1635
Joined: 28 Mar 2007 18:27

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by JwalaMukhi »

That would be a big problem then. What is sauce for goose would be sauce for the gander. Meaning if it is difficult for anyone to survive in NYC at that rate, then that would also apply for the domestic aide as well.
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34943
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by chetak »

Singha wrote:I think diplomats posted abroad would get higher salary based on posting, and things like housing lease taken care of, based on grade level?
I dont see how anyone can survive in NYC, let alone put kids in school on just $2000/pm.

School paid for by GOI along with a lot of other sundry expenses.

Salary is for saving onlee.
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34943
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by chetak »

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
per page 20 of today's TOILET, senior babu father of the bride is claiming racial discrimination.

Lots of other juicy stuff about multiple house allotments made to the spoiled ranee including a flat in the infamous Adarsh Housing society in colaba.

Suspect that she may have been handcuffed if she had mouthed off and provoked the cops in true desi lal batthi style as befitting her exalted status
sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10205
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by sum »

Singha wrote:I think diplomats posted abroad would get higher salary based on posting, and things like housing lease taken care of, based on grade level?
I dont see how anyone can survive in NYC, let alone put kids in school on just $2000/pm.
IFS salaries are very generous onlee with huge amounts being shown as perks rather than salary!

The salary is completely for saving and the generous perks ( which are different for different countries) is pretty sufficient for living well
svenkat
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4727
Joined: 19 May 2009 17:23

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by svenkat »

Preet Bhararas parents migrated from West Punjab and PB is a loyal Uncle Tom.

khobargade seems to a quota SC officer.
Last edited by svenkat on 14 Dec 2013 14:30, edited 1 time in total.
shyam
BRFite
Posts: 1453
Joined: 29 Jul 2003 11:31

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by shyam »

Why should Indian diplomat bring maid at personal capacity. If a maid is required, her visa must be requested by GoI and not by the officer. Doing this mistake after one incident is plain stupid.
ashish raval
BRFite
Posts: 1389
Joined: 10 Aug 2006 00:49
Location: London
Contact:

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by ashish raval »

^^ if the maid was living with family, who paid for living cost like rent in the post are and food cost. Diplomat can very well claim that it was paid for from her salary living RS. Thirty thousand as gross salary. Living in posh are of newyork plus food can very well be upward of $2500/month.
svenkat
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4727
Joined: 19 May 2009 17:23

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by svenkat »

http://www.thehindu.com/news/international/world/indian-diplomat-arrested-on-visa-fraud-charges/article5452670.ece
Sangeeta Richard, the former domestic staff of New York-based Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade (39), said that she wanted the Deputy Consul General’s help in getting permanent legal status in the U.S. and did not answer the family’s plea to tell them how much they owed her in unpaid wages, Ms. Khobragade’s father said.

Speaking to The Hindu via telephone from Mumbai Uttam Khobragade said that despite his son-in-law asking Ms. Richard about any wage shortfalls “four or five times” in the span of the eight months that she worked for them, she always expressed satisfaction with the arrangement under which her family was paid INR 30,000 per month in India and Ms. Richard was given around $500 per month in New York.

When she disappeared Ms. Richard took her passport, $200 and Ms. Khobragade’s husband’s mobile phone with her, he added, and when she called a month later she allegedly demanded $10,000.

Ms. Khobragade was on Thursday arrested in New York on charges related to visa fraud and human trafficking, specifically that she had caused “materially false and fraudulent documents” to be presented to authorities in her bid to get Ms. Richard, an Indian national, employed as a babysitter and housekeeper at her residence in Manhattan.

Responding to queries on the case the Indian embassy here confirmed that Ms. Khobragade was “taken into custody by law enforcement authorities in New York in the morning of December 12, 2013 while she was dropping her daughter at school,” but was “later released that same evening” on bail.

While some reports said that handcuffs had been used in the arrest Uttam Khobragade was unable to confirm whether that was the case, or whether she had spent any time in a holding cell.

Although diplomats generally enjoy immunity from arrest and prosecution under the Vienna Convention, such immunity has been waived on certain occasions in the past.

Regarding the main allegation of the U.S. Department of Justice, the charge that the wage promised under the contract used to obtain an A-3 “personal employees” visa Ms. Richard was not honoured, Ms. Khobragade was alleged to have told Ms. Richard, “The first employment contract was a formality to get the visa.”

However the second employment contract between the two of them, agreeing a monthly payment of INR 30,000 did not apparently contain any provision about the normal number of working hours per week or month.

Consequently during the term of her employment Ms. Richard was said to have worked “far more than 40 hours per week,” and then was paid even less than the INR 30,000 that had been promised under the second contract.

This is the second instance of a senior Indian foreign service officer in New York facing charges linked to human trafficking.

In 2012, a New York City Magistrate Judge ordered that Neena Malhotra, a diplomat at the Consulate, and her husband Jogesh be required to pay out nearly $1.5 million for forcing an underaged Indian girl, Shanti Gurung, to work without pay and meting out “barbaric treatment” to her in their plush East 43rd Street Manhattan apartment.
JE Menon
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7143
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by JE Menon »

Why is preet bharara an "Uncle Tom"?
Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 20844
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Karan M »

chetak wrote:^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
per page 20 of today's TOILET, senior babu father of the bride is claiming racial discrimination.

Lots of other juicy stuff about multiple house allotments made to the spoiled ranee including a flat in the infamous Adarsh Housing society in colaba.

Suspect that she may have been handcuffed if she had mouthed off and provoked the cops in true desi lal batthi style as befitting her exalted status
How many flats were there in that Adarsh society anyhow. Looks like anybody and everybody had flats there. :roll:
Flats for kargil widows indeed. :roll:
Altair
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2620
Joined: 30 Dec 2009 12:51
Location: Hovering over Pak Airspace in AWACS

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Altair »

Why didn't the FBI use this as a point to blackmail her to turn her?
Rony
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3513
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 23:29

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Rony »

Envoy gets $4,120 per month, US says pay nanny $4,500
India’s deputy consul general in New York, Devyani Khobragade, 39, was arrested on Thursday morning for an alleged visa fraud. She is accused of not paying her babysitter $4,500 per month as mandated under the US law. But Devyani Khobragade’s take-home every month is just $4,120, according to her father.

The arrest flouted diplomatic immunity and was made in full public view outside a school where Devyani had come to drop her daughter. The mother of two was handcuffed and taken into custody. On Friday, she was released on $250,000 bond by a Manhattan court.

The main charge levelled by US department of justice was that Khobragade had electronically submitted to the state department that she would be paying $4,500 per month ($9.75 per hour) to her domestic assistant Sangeet Richard. She, however, made Richard sign a second contract later, reducing her salary to Rs30,000 ($3.31 per hour) a month.

Her father Uttam Khobragade, a retired IAS officer and a resident of Andheri, rubbished the allegations levelled against Devyani by the maidservant, Sangeeta Richard. He told dna that his daughter paid Rs30,000 per month as per a contract with Sangeeta who is from Punjab. “In fact, after three months, Sangeeta started blackmailing my daughter demanding $10,000. She threatened that if her demand was not met she would file a complaint against Devyani,” he said.

Devyani’s arrest has “shocked” and “appalled” New Delhi, which said there was no justification for the humiliating manner in which the US authorities executed her arrest, terming it “absolutely unacceptable”. On Friday, foreign secretary Sujatha Singh summoned US ambassador to India Nancy Powell and lodged a strong protest.

Singh is believed to have told Powell that the treatment meted out to the senior diplomat was “totally unacceptable” and that she was entitled to the courtesies under various multilateral conventions dealing with diplomatic fraternity posted in foreign countries.

MEA spokesperson Syed Akbaruddin said: “India is shocked and appalled by what the US has done to its diplomat in New York, who is entitled to diplomatic immunity. India is forcefully taking up with the US the treatment meted out to arrested diplomat, which is not acceptable.”
“You cannot humiliate a mother of two publicly,” Akbaruddin said.

Another government official said: “Handcuffing a diplomat is unprecedented. It shows disrespect towards the diplomatic community.”

Sangeeta Richard has been absconding since June. The complaint against Devyani is that she was paying only $3.31 per hour against the mandated $9.75, and that the contract does not mention how many hours the maidservant will have to work or how many sick leaves and weekly offs she was entitled to. Also, Devyani is accused of presenting wrong facts while obtaining a US visa for the maid.

Uttam Khobragade, however, told dna that Sangeeta was paid more than the regular monthly salary. “Besides the regular monthly salary, she was paid additional amounts whenever she required. This is nothing but harassment. When Sangeeta started demanding more and more money, we registered a complaint against her in Delhi. The metropolitan magistrate court issued a non-bailable arrest warrant against Sangeeta. We are shocked that Devyani was arrested for no fault of hers and that too when she has diplomatic immunity,” Khobragade said.

He said the Delhi high court issued an interim injunction in September, restraining Sangeeta Richards from instituting any action or proceedings against Devyani Khobragade outside India, regarding the terms or conditions of her employment. (With inputs from Pradip Sagar)
Raja Bose
BRF Oldie
Posts: 19477
Joined: 18 Oct 2005 01:38

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Raja Bose »

All said and done, why was the inflated pay specified in the visa application in the first place? Typical babu chalta hai attitude onlee?

That being said, getting handcuffed and thrown in the slammer like that is against diplomatic norms. When kids of some US embassy diplomat in Dilli got caught with narcotics they were treated with kid gloves....does US want similar treatment meted out to its staffers?
Rony
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3513
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 23:29

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Rony »

Nanny rocks US relations
It is usual for nannies and housemaids travelling with diplomats to get official visas. But it also means in this case that the charges against Khobragade, if proven, will raise questions on negligence — at the least — on the part of the Indian government in allowing fraud to be committed in seeking official visas.

“We are shocked and appalled at the manner in which she has been humiliated by the US authorities,” ministry of external affairs joint secretary and spokesperson Syed Akbaruddin said.

There is nothing, nothing that entails the humiliation of a young woman diplomat with two children publicly,” the foreign ministry spokesperson added.

Taranjit Singh Sandhu, India’s charge d’affairs at its embassy in Washington, has also “forcefully” communicated India’s objections to Nisha Desai Biswal, nominated this year as assistance secretary of state in charge of south and central Asia by President Barack Obama, officials said.

India’s reaction in Khobragade’s case is unlike anything New Delhi has displayed in recent years.

Summoning diplomats of a foreign nation is a standard mechanism used by nations to articulate concerns. India, Akbaruddin said, had told the US embassy in New Delhi in “no uncertain terms” that Khobragade’s arrest was “absolutely unacceptable.”

Officials confirmed to The Telegraph that India has not summoned a US ambassador to its foreign office in several years — not for protests against personal humiliation and not to articulate concerns over policies.

Foreign secretary Sujatha Singh’s rare decision to summon Powell on Friday was driven by key arguments that officials said make Khobragade’s arrest distinct from other recent disputes with the US and other countries.

First, officials said, India is convinced that New York law enforcement officials severely overreached in arresting Khobragade. The diplomat had in September obtained an order from Delhi High Court restraining Richard, the nanny, from instituting any actions and proceedings against her outside India.

US authorities were made aware of the high court order, and so had “no business” arresting her, an official said. The nanny’s official visa has also been scrapped, the official said.

Under the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations, local police can arrest foreign diplomats on their land in serious cases of crime — but only after a series of procedures that include reaching out to the country’s mission.

Bharara’s office, officials here said, never contacted the Indian embassy in Washington, consulate in New York, or Khobragade herself, before arresting her.

“She wasn’t running away anywhere,” an official said. “They could have told the mission head that they have concerns and need to question her, instead of publicly humiliating her when she was dropping her daughter to school.”

Second, India recognises that an indictment for Khobragade would mean an embarrassment to the country — not just because she is an Indian diplomat but because India could be accused of overlooking immigration fraud committed on an official passport.


In Mumbai, Uttam Khobragade, the father of Devyani, lashed out at the US for the diplomat’s “unwarranted” arrest and demanded an apology.

They have no powers to arrest her like this when her husband is away in Beirut for a conference and she is alone with two small daughters. They arrested her in a public place like a school, and without lady police. Where is their jurisdiction when the matter is clearly a civil case between two Indian citizens?” said the retired IAS officer whose name had cropped up in the Adarsh Housing Society scam probe. Devyani owns a flat in the Colaba highrise.

Khobragade, who retired in 2011, continued: “Can we pay Rs 5 lakh in India? She (the domestic help) was paid handsome money. If she is not happy with her pay, she should stop working and return to India.”

Asked if he had spoken to Devyani after the incident, he said: “Yes. She is composed. She is more brave than me. She has resumed work.”

Khobragade was among 15 of Maharashtra’s IAS officials whose kin were allotted flats in the 31-storey Adarsh society. In 2012, father and daughter had deposed before the two-member judicial commission probing the Adarsh scam and denied wrongdoing.
chaanakya
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9513
Joined: 09 Jan 2010 13:30

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by chaanakya »

Has Devyani Khobragade been made the scapegoat for all the misdeeds of employers in the US?

Did the authorities here get tired of repeated cases of maid abuse emanating from the consulate in New York, and decided that enough was enough? That Khobragade be made the poster diplomat for all things associated with wage abuse of employees brought to the country? If that is so, then this is also a clear warning for all employers, including India’s IT giants, who bring workers on H1-B and L1 visas.

If the US were to go after employers who have cheated employees of their due wages as given on H1B petitions, then likely thousands might see jail time.


Khobragade’s arrest is a warning that next time, if there is a visa fraud case, it might not be settled out of court, like what happened less than two months ago with Infosys agreeing to pay $35 million. If Indian diplomats can’t be assured of immunity for such transgressions, then what is the likelihood of top executives of companies that perpetuate visa fraud to find themselves behind bars? A very good chance, one might assume.
However, both the US and Indian governments are at fault for letting matters of the abuse of maids and human trafficking to continue with impunity, and to bring matters to a head by arresting a senior diplomat. They had even made provisions on how to counter this festering issue.

More than three years ago, a staffer from Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s office had met with all the heads of the diplomatic corps in Washington, DC, and briefed them on a spate of cases that surfaced on abuse of maids who came from home countries. A few official directives were also issued to curb this, which included: suspend the issuing of A-3 visas (the same as was given to Khobragade’s maid) if the Secretary of State determines that there is credible evidence that one or more employees of a foreign mission has abused or exploited one or more non-immigrants holding such a visa, and mission members pay any award of damages in cases brought against them by their former domestic workers.

So what did come out of that? Despite two cases – involving Dayal and Malhotra – at the Indian consulate in New York, the State Department went ahead and processed the visa for Khobragade’s maid, and India never paid the almost $1.5 million that was awarded by a court in New York in favor of Malhotra’s maid, who won the case three years ago.


Also, as per a statement issued by the Indian Embassy in Washington, DC, the US government has not cooperated with the Indian government. The statement says following a court order in New Delhi against the maid of Khobragade, Sangeeta Richard, India had requested the US to issue an arrest warrant for the maid, who left Khobragade’s service and has been absconding since June of this year.

The statement added: “The Embassy of India in Washington DC had immediately conveyed its strong concern to the U.S. Government over the action taken against Dr. Khobragade. The US side have been urged to resolve the matter with due sensitivity, taking into account the existing Court case in India that has already been brought to their attention by the Government of India, and the Diplomatic status of the officer concerned.”

However, India should know well, that such an action only facilitates and makes stronger a case for political asylum.
The fact remains that good nannies in areas like New York make six figure salaries, with benefits like paid vacations and health insurance. And when they also get a shot at asylum and a Green Card in domestic abuse cases the temptation is too great for hired help from India, apart from the alleged abuse that they face.

So what is the solution now? According to attorney Ravi Batra, who fought initially the case for Dayal, a new law needs to come up between India and the US for diplomatic harmony as well as to save the careers of diplomats.

“Absent the creation of a new legal category for diplomatic foreign domestic workers, which exempts them from US labor laws, including, wages and hours, American laws must be followed to avoid both criminal and civil liability as well as diaspora and foreign-sovereign embarrassment,” said Batra. “Foreign nations who pay their workers at or near US labor rates are free from this risk, however of 194 countries, most nations are below US-mandated hours and wage standards, and to this later group’s diplomatic corps – they remain at high risk to be in the cross-hairs of illegality and reputation-suicide.”

(Sujeet Rajan is the Editor-in-Chief of The American Bazaar)
Interesting comments as well.
chaanakya
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9513
Joined: 09 Jan 2010 13:30

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by chaanakya »

Khobragade victim of local ambition?

There are speculations that the US attorney is looking for 'scalps' as a springboard to public office
Indian officials say the extremely public nature of Khobragade’s arrest has a lot to do with Bharara’s political ambitions. Calling him the Arvind Kejriwal of New York, a former Indian government official who served in the US, said, “After taking down one state senator, two members of the assembly, a member of the council and many others in two alleged bribery plots; after going after Rajat Gupta and Raj Rajaratnam and putting him away for more than 10 years; and after pursuing the case against IMF (International Monetary Fund) chief Dominique Strauss Kahn (which was dismissed), Bharara was looking for another scalp. Now, he has one—Devyani Khobragade. (a sterling track record I would say and something which AK would fond hard to emulate and Devyani has much to fear for unless GOI steps up the ante)

Bharara has denied he intends to run for any office. But The New York Times suggests his style has an uncanny similarity to that of former New York governor Rudy Giuliani, who held the same post in the 80s and used it to hunt down corrupt politicians and as a springboard to public office. In fact, while hearing a case argued by Bharara’s office, one of the judges mocked publicly at the purple prose in a press release issued by Bharara, saying this seemed to be for “tabloid consumption”.
She would be a small fry if he has that ambition.
chaanakya
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9513
Joined: 09 Jan 2010 13:30

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by chaanakya »


Posted on April 6, 2013

Meet The Acting Consul General Of India In New York
Q. What are your ambitions and future goals?

The highest point in our careers is the Ambassador’s post. But besides that my ambition is to make some changes within our Civil Services. For example, we lack a crèche, spousal support and many other facilities that women who are in foreign services of other countries are entitled to. My other ambition is to have direct impact on a foreign policy for the underprivileged women. I would like to work as an advisory capacity in an NGO or be a Trustee or a Board Member to communicate directly with the community.
Q. There has been a continual demand on the government to persuade the US government to extend more leniencies or provide quotas for Indians applying for work visa. Will we see more leniencies from the government’s side for H1B visa applicants?

We are talking to the government about the upcoming immigration laws. We are trying to safeguard the interests of Indians who are highly specialized and skilled by increasing the number of H1B applications that can be accepted from Indian applicants. We also want to streamline a few procedures that are to be taken while applying for the H1B visa. The embassy is taking up these issues but as you know it’s a continual process.
chaanakya
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9513
Joined: 09 Jan 2010 13:30

Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by chaanakya »

.

Article 40 – Protection of Consular Officers

The receiving State shall treat consular officers with due respect and shall take all appropriate steps to prevent attack on their person, freedom or dignity.

Article 41 – Personal Inviolability of Consular Officers

Consular officers shall not be liable to arrest or detention pending trial, except in the case of a grave crime and pursuant to a decision by the competent judicial authority.

Except in the case specified in paragraph 1 of this article, consular officers shall not be committed to prison or be liable to any other form of restriction on their personal freedom save in execution of a judicial decision of final effect.
( No final decision in this case so far from Judiciary, it was just an presentation of charges)

If criminal proceedings are instituted against a consular officer, he must appear before the competent authorities. Nevertheless, the proceedings shall be conducted with the respect due to him by reason of his official position and, except in the case specified in paragraph 1 of this article, in a manner which will hamper the exercise of consular functions as little as possible. When in the circumstances mentioned in paragraph 1 of this article, it has become necessary to detain a consular officer, the proceedings against him shall be instituted with the minimum of delay. ( what was the necessity to detain, was she a flight risk? or hardened criminal?)

Article 42 – Notification of Arrest, Detention or Prosecution

In the event of arrest or detention, pending trial, of a member of the consular staff, or of criminal proceedings being instituted against him, the receiving State shall promptly notify the head of the consular post. Should the latter be himself the object of any such measure, the receiving State shall notify the sending State through the diplomatic channel.

Article 43 – Immunity from Jurisdiction

Consular officers and consular employees shall not be amenable to the jurisdiction of the judicial or administrative authorities of the receiving State in respect of acts performed in the exercise of consular functions.

The provisions of paragraph 1 of this article shall not, however, apply in respect of a civil action either:

Arising out of a contract concluded by a consular officer or a consular employee in which he did not contract expressly or impliedly as an agent of the sending State; or
By a third party for damage arising from an accident in the receiving State caused by a vehicle, vessel or aircraft.
Post Reply