AP Politics and runup to 2014 General elections

[chaanakya]

President has sent T Bill to AP Assembly for its views. Jan 23 is the time by which they have to give it (40 days to be exact). T-Bill will be passed in next session of parliament when it convenes to pass vote on account.

[Yagnasri]

They sent the reference by a special aeroplane. Diggi Raja is actively involved. I once again say there is something serious and damaging or bad behind-the-scenes reason is there for this. I am unable to see mafia gaining anything substantial in all this.

[chaanakya]

Narayan garu, there is nothing serious except that Telangana will be formed before next election, if that is what you suspect.

[vishvak]

<Speculation goggles on >
As in AP, each region has a style of its own. There was a mention of AP just like BIMARU state. Well nothing special about AP or any other state, other than definition of what modern is.

Also I wonder since how long BIMARU label is used.

Anyway, post 1990 many industrial groups made lots of money after some sectors were opened up for privatization. This hasn't made uniform effect all over. This seem to be stark especially in a third world or progressing country where such difference have been observed in few generations.

Hence the way or style in which 'division' of state occurs matters here. In few generations some progress can be made in any region as per situation-again in few generations, so there shouldn't be scars during 'division'.

In short, important to have better way to proceed. In other words, the way in which smaller states are made is very important.

It is important again to check how well state divisions were made without much trouble when NDA was in power. Sonia doesn't seem to proceed without collateral damage and not the best sound bytes or footage.
<Speculation goggles off./>

[ShyamSP]

Breaking: CBNs visit to Jaipur cancelled.

there is something wrong with CBN.

CBN is going to MP CM ceremony. CBN may have cancelled Jaipur visit due to Jet flights from Delhi carrying "bills", "bundles" and "Doggys".*

*http://www.gulte.com/news/23402/Diggy-l ... with-money

[ShyamSP]

TDP's no-confidence motion is neutral unlike YSRC and INC rebels' whose one was United AP-specific. TDP's motion is just against Congress government.

- Sushmaji says BJP is not supporting the motion. In fact BJP even didn't bring motion against speaker that they said they would bring.
- With SP supporting motion, speaker will have to bring the motion on Monday. So far speaker tactics have been let INC-friendly MPs make noises to adjourn Lok sabha.

Once TDP is successful in bringing discussion on no-confidence motion, BJP will have to support it as otherwise it amounts to BJP's confidence on Congress government. No-confidence motion passing can be powerful weapon to take it to people and to create alliance against Congress by showing congress as weak.

[Yagnasri]

Has Sushma didi discussed with NM before deciding on the no confidence motion? The conduct of LKA and didi show that they don't care for him. Had NM had an opprtunity he would have tried to create maximum headache for mafia. At least no v
Confidence on speaker? Why not do that? The mafia seriously manipulated 2g jpc report and didi not doing anything.

[Hari Seldon]

Exclusive: Narendra Modi not untouchable, Jagan Reddy speaks out

Speaking exclusively to the India Today Group, Jagan said he is not averse to an alliance with a BJP led by Narendra Modi. "Why not? No one is untouchable. We are willing to do business with Modi. Anybody who accepts our demands is acceptable to us," said Jagan.

Jagan Reddy made it clear he would not get into an alliance with any party that supported the division of Andhra Pradesh. "A unified Andhra is our only demand . We can have a tie-up with any party which says it will not split Andhra Pradesh. This is what people want. This is what our party wants."

Jagan told the India Today Group, "What the Congress is doing is unprecedented. When NDA decided to bifurcate three states, the state Assemblies first passed a unanimous resolution backing the division. But in Andhra Pradesh, the Congress is forcing this decision on people without waiting for the state Assembly to pass a resolution backing the bifurcation. This can become a template for splitting other states in future. All chief ministers need to be very careful.'

BJP leaders in Andhra Pradesh feel that Jagan is on a stronger wicket than Chandrababu Naidu and that the party should not rush into an alliance with the TDP without carefully evaluating all options. The latest opinion poll done in the first week of December by research agency Nielsen for a regional news channel in Andhra Pradesh shows the YSR Congress emerging as the largest party in united Andhra Pradesh. Out of the 42 Lok Sabha seats in Andhra Pradesh, the YSR Congress is projected to bag between 23-25 seats, while the Telangana based TRS is projected to come in second picking up between 8-10 seats. The Congress' tally is shown crashing from 33 to between 3-5. The TDP too is likely to be in the range of 3-5. By itself the BJP is projected to only between 0-1 seats. An alliance with either TDP or YSR Congress can help the BJP push up its tally in this crucial battleground state in the South.

Jagan Reddy made it clear that there is absolutely no question of entering into any form of a post-poll alliance with the Congress . Senior Congress leaders have been expressing confidence that they would be able to win over Jagan after the results come out. But Jagan told the India Today Group, "After what they (Congress) have done to my state, do you think there is any possibility of an alliance with the party? No Congress leader is in touch with me and there is no question of allying with the Congress."

No post-poll alliance with Cong, eh, Jagan beta...? But am sure, an arrangement where both you and cong support a 3rd front is kosher no?

[Yagnasri]

Jagan is another DMK like fellow allowing him to rule any place is making it fully EJ. he wants help with CBI cases Bjp can not allow him to be near their party. Further I do not think TDP is that weak. I give them 15 to 25 range. They may not go below 15 even in worst case.

[Muppalla]

TDP-BJP alliance is all set except it is waiting to see the bifurcation. They will announce the final seat level stuff only after the finality of bifurcation. They have different plans if bifurcation happens Vs does not happen.

[LakshO]

Why does the BJP want to get into a pre-poll alliance with either TDP or YSRCP BJP must keep its options open, once the LS elections results are out, sew up a post-poll alliance with whoever has the most number of seats - TDP, YSRCP, TRS etc. No?

NaMo & BJP must target to maximize BJP's strength in GE2014, everything else will fall in place.

[Paul]

Finally, someone from Telengana voicing his analysis on the subject.

There have reams of articles and comments from ill informed people blaming political parties on this subject but the caste angle analysis lacking in BR IMHO particularly the Reddy community. This article gave me the clearest perspective on the Telanagana imbroglio to date.

Till now what was discussed on BRF was a smoke screen covering the real causes of thehe angst of the Telangana folks. Me thinks if Telangana is not formed the locals may resort to other means to get what they are looking for.

http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?288760

OPINION
What’s Under A Surname? Well, A Whole State.
The protests against Telangana state’s formation have another facet: the desperation of the Reddy community to hold on to power
MALLEPALLI LAXMAIAH

A State Of Flux

Dominant castes Reddys and Kammas form 8 per cent and 4-5 per cent of the population in present-day Andhra Pradesh
United Andhra makes Reddys stronger because they are split between the Andhra and Telangana regions. Feudal dominance continues in Telangana.
Kammas want a united AP as business interests in cinema, industry, IT, real estate lie in Hyderabad, which is in Telangana
United AP must for Reddy dominance: division will split their social base, reduce them politically
In a divided state, the regions will throw up new influential political groups. In Andhra, Kapus (10-15%) and Malas (15-20%); in Telangana: Velamas (8%), Madigas (20%), Malas (15%).
In a separate Andhra state, Reddy and Kamma CMs will get replaced by either Kapu (Chiranjeevi) or a Mala (Panabaka Laxmi/J.D. Seelam). In Telangana, it could be a Velama Dora (KCR) with Madiga dy CM.
***

The Congress chief minister in Andhra Pradesh, N. Kiran Kumar Reddy, hasn’t shown the grace and political acumen of, say, a Digvijay Singh. As the then incumbent Congress chief minister, he presided over the seamless and fuss-free division of the biggest state India has seen—the original Madhya Pradesh—to create Chhatt­isgarh in 2000. Contrast this with Kiran Reddy’s response to a near-identical circumstance. But everything else aside, there is one under-appreciated fact: Kiran’s open resista­nce to the creation of a new Telangana state embodies the historical arrogance of a community that has ruled over the Telugu-spea­king people for several decades. Indeed, his politics is nothing but an attempt to prolong the ‘Reddy rule’ of Andhra Pradesh.

The state of Andhra Pradesh, as we see it on the map today, was created through the merger of two regions with distinct identities. History, and the benefit of hindsight, throws light upon what was essentially a Reddy project to merge the Hyderabad state and the Andhra state in 1956. (Interestingly, the Reddys were not even enumerated as a separate caste in the 1931 census.)


Reddy reckoner From top, Neelam Sanjeeva Reddy, M. Chenna Reddy, N. Janardhana Reddy, Y.S.R. Reddy, Kiran Kumar Reddy The Telangana region, then known as the state of Hyderabad, had an elected assembly in 1952 with B. Ramakrishna Rao, a Brahmin, as its chief minister. T. Prakasam Pantulu, another Brahmin, then headed the government of Andhra, which had emerged out of the Madras state in 1953. The dominant Reddy community kicked off its project within the Congress party in 1956 with the merger of the two Telugu-speaking regions, thus establishing the dominance of the Reddys of the Telangana and Andhra regions.
Starting with B. Gopala Reddy in 1956, for the next few decades seven out of 10 times it was a Reddy who took oath as the chief minister of united Andhra Pradesh till N.T. Rama Rao, a Kamma, stormed to power in 1983. During these 27 years, the Reddys effectively managed to oust D. Sanjivayya, the country’s first Dalit CM (1960-62) and also P.V. Narasimha Rao, a Brahmin (1971-73). J. Vengal Rao, from the land-owning Velama Dora caste of Tel­an­gana, was the sole exception—the only non-Reddy allowed to complete his term. Only to be replaced in 1978 by Marri Chenna Reddy—who indeed came to power, not to forget, riding on a separate Telangana plank.

The Reddy domination in the Congress was so complete that the CMs’ list till 1983 is a ready-reckoner for the community: Bezawada Gopala Reddy, Neelam Sanjeeva Reddy, Kasu Brahmananda Reddy, Tanguturi Anjaiah, Bhavanam Venkatarami Reddy and Kotla Vijayabhaskara Reddy. No other caste could even aspire to a leadership role within the Congress party.

In fact, it took matinee idol NTR and his ‘Telugu aatmagauravam’ idea to break this unnatural stranglehold of just one community over an entire state, his Telugu Desam Party vehicles carrying the land-owning, entrepreneur Kamma caste to power. But the Congress still retained its Reddy leadership to take him on. When the Congress defeated NTR in 1989, it was again the Reddys ruling the roost: M. Chenna Reddy (1989-90); N. Janardhana Reddy (1990-92) and K. Vijaya­bhaskara Reddy (1992-94) till the TDP came back to power in 1994. The decade-long TDP rule after that was disrupted only by another Reddy of the Congress, Y.S. Rajasekhara Reddy. YSR, like Chenna Reddy, again made the false promise of Telangana to win votes and become CM in 2004.

Meanwhile, the continuous churn in soc­iety led to the emergence of an OBC caste, the Kapus. One sign of the arrival of this social bloc in politics came in the fleeting existence of the Praja Rajyam Party, built around the appeal of the popular Telugu movie star, Chiran­jeevi. The party, att­rac­t­ing Kapus in droves, debuted in the 2009 elections. But as it turned out, it could only absorb the anti-incumbency votes against Rajasekhara Reddy, paving the way for his re-election in a triangular contest. And so, unfortunately, the Kapu emergence again only worked to the benefit of the Reddys.

After YSR’s death in a helicopter crash in 2009, the community’s demand was that Jag­anmohan, his son, be installed as CM. When the Congress chose their most experi­enced minister in the government, K. Ros­aiah (a Bania), as CM, Jagan resigned from the party in November 2010 and formed a new party taking his father’s name. Quickly, a panicky Congress fell back upon the Reddys and installed N. Kiran Kumar Reddy as CM. To balance the fallout, the party high command also got Chiranjeevi to merge his party with the Congress.

When the Congress eventually decided to implement its election promise of 2004 and create a separate Telangana state, little did it realise that the current CM would be no different from YSR in trying to stall the process. Kiran Reddy has in fact raised a banner of rebellion, opposing the decision of the Congress leadership. Meanwhile, Jagan Reddy, fresh out of jail after a 16-month-long incarceration, too has pitched in for an undivided Andhra Pradesh. His party has even started negotiating with the Bharatiya Janata Party, which has always been a Telangana supporter.

With everyone trying to get their two pennies’ worth, the other dominant caste, the Kammas, too have decided they don’t want a separate state (they have been sharing power with the Reddys all along). They have been citing Hyd­erabad city as a bone of contention. As for the TDP under Chandrababu Naidu, they did a flip-flop on Telangana only to later oppose the division of the state.

Any change in geographical boundaries of the state will upset the territorial dominance of Reddys. Though Kamma dominance is restricted to just the Andhra region, it has economic interests in Hyderabad city. The rest of the castes are not really bothered about the outcome, for their lot is to be ruled by either the Reddys or the Kammas. This scenario of caste dominance and power can possibly be changed only by the emergence of a separate Telangana and Andhra states which will unsettle the caste equations and give rise to new democratic forces.

(Mallepalli Laxmaiah is a senior journalist and co-chair of the Telangana Joint Action Committee )

It is hard not to feel sympathetic to the telangana struggle after reading this article.

[TKiran]

Trivial many, important few. There are some interest groups who advised dynasty to opt for the split after YSR death . YSR's death itself is mystery. We are yet to identify Signal from noise. May be YSR's death has a clue. Even KCR has only political interests in Telangana, but not in actual split.

[devesh]

it's hard not to feel sympathetic to 9 crore telugu people after reading that article. we're supposed to be in the 20th century.

political power in Andhra Pradesh is decided by birth. the womb in which you are born will decide if you can aspire to truly set the direction of telugu people.

20% of the population controls the rest 80%.

it's the same situation in other societies and countries. except that 20% is not restricted by birth. in most so-called "developed" countries, there is a chance to get into the 20% if you have the skills and drive. in AP, it doesn't matter. even someone of PVNR's talents can be booted out. and of course, we'll always have apologists who will claim that it was chankian plan to push such people onto the national stage....even childish naivete has its limits.

[Lilo]

Finally, someone from Telengana voicing his analysis on the subject.

There have reams of articles and comments from ill informed people blaming political parties on this subject but the caste angle analysis lacking in BR IMHO particularly the Reddy community. This article gave me the clearest perspective on the Telanagana imbroglio to date.

Till now what was discussed on BRF was a smoke screen covering the real causes of thehe angst of the Telangana folks. Me thinks if Telangana is not formed the locals may resort to other means to get what they are looking for.

http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?288760

OPINION
What’s Under A Surname? Well, A Whole State.
The protests against Telangana state’s formation have another facet: the desperation of the Reddy community to hold on to power
MALLEPALLI LAXMAIAH

A State Of Flux

Dominant castes Reddys and Kammas form 8 per cent and 4-5 per cent of the population in present-day Andhra Pradesh
United Andhra makes Reddys stronger because they are split between the Andhra and Telangana regions. Feudal dominance continues in Telangana.
Kammas want a united AP as business interests in cinema, industry, IT, real estate lie in Hyderabad, which is in Telangana
United AP must for Reddy dominance: division will split their social base, reduce them politically
In a divided state, the regions will throw up new influential political groups. In Andhra, Kapus (10-15%) and Malas (15-20%); in Telangana: Velamas (8%), Madigas (20%), Malas (15%).
In a separate Andhra state, Reddy and Kamma CMs will get replaced by either Kapu (Chiranjeevi) or a Mala (Panabaka Laxmi/J.D. Seelam). In Telangana, it could be a Velama Dora (KCR) with Madiga dy CM.
***

The Congress chief minister in Andhra Pradesh, N. Kiran Kumar Reddy, hasn’t shown the grace and political acumen of, say, a Digvijay Singh. As the then incumbent Congress chief minister, he presided over the seamless and fuss-free division of the biggest state India has seen—the original Madhya Pradesh—to create Chhatt­isgarh in 2000. Contrast this with Kiran Reddy’s response to a near-identical circumstance. But everything else aside, there is one under-appreciated fact: Kiran’s open resista­nce to the creation of a new Telangana state embodies the historical arrogance of a community that has ruled over the Telugu-spea­king people for several decades. Indeed, his politics is nothing but an attempt to prolong the ‘Reddy rule’ of Andhra Pradesh.

The state of Andhra Pradesh, as we see it on the map today, was created through the merger of two regions with distinct identities. History, and the benefit of hindsight, throws light upon what was essentially a Reddy project to merge the Hyderabad state and the Andhra state in 1956. (Interestingly, the Reddys were not even enumerated as a separate caste in the 1931 census.)


Reddy reckoner From top, Neelam Sanjeeva Reddy, M. Chenna Reddy, N. Janardhana Reddy, Y.S.R. Reddy, Kiran Kumar Reddy The Telangana region, then known as the state of Hyderabad, had an elected assembly in 1952 with B. Ramakrishna Rao, a Brahmin, as its chief minister. T. Prakasam Pantulu, another Brahmin, then headed the government of Andhra, which had emerged out of the Madras state in 1953. The dominant Reddy community kicked off its project within the Congress party in 1956 with the merger of the two Telugu-speaking regions, thus establishing the dominance of the Reddys of the Telangana and Andhra regions.
Starting with B. Gopala Reddy in 1956, for the next few decades seven out of 10 times it was a Reddy who took oath as the chief minister of united Andhra Pradesh till N.T. Rama Rao, a Kamma, stormed to power in 1983. During these 27 years, the Reddys effectively managed to oust D. Sanjivayya, the country’s first Dalit CM (1960-62) and also P.V. Narasimha Rao, a Brahmin (1971-73). J. Vengal Rao, from the land-owning Velama Dora caste of Tel­an­gana, was the sole exception—the only non-Reddy allowed to complete his term. Only to be replaced in 1978 by Marri Chenna Reddy—who indeed came to power, not to forget, riding on a separate Telangana plank.

The Reddy domination in the Congress was so complete that the CMs’ list till 1983 is a ready-reckoner for the community: Bezawada Gopala Reddy, Neelam Sanjeeva Reddy, Kasu Brahmananda Reddy, Tanguturi Anjaiah, Bhavanam Venkatarami Reddy and Kotla Vijayabhaskara Reddy. No other caste could even aspire to a leadership role within the Congress party.

In fact, it took matinee idol NTR and his ‘Telugu aatmagauravam’ idea to break this unnatural stranglehold of just one community over an entire state, his Telugu Desam Party vehicles carrying the land-owning, entrepreneur Kamma caste to power. But the Congress still retained its Reddy leadership to take him on. When the Congress defeated NTR in 1989, it was again the Reddys ruling the roost: M. Chenna Reddy (1989-90); N. Janardhana Reddy (1990-92) and K. Vijaya­bhaskara Reddy (1992-94) till the TDP came back to power in 1994. The decade-long TDP rule after that was disrupted only by another Reddy of the Congress, Y.S. Rajasekhara Reddy. YSR, like Chenna Reddy, again made the false promise of Telangana to win votes and become CM in 2004.

Meanwhile, the continuous churn in soc­iety led to the emergence of an OBC caste, the Kapus. One sign of the arrival of this social bloc in politics came in the fleeting existence of the Praja Rajyam Party, built around the appeal of the popular Telugu movie star, Chiran­jeevi. The party, att­rac­t­ing Kapus in droves, debuted in the 2009 elections. But as it turned out, it could only absorb the anti-incumbency votes against Rajasekhara Reddy, paving the way for his re-election in a triangular contest. And so, unfortunately, the Kapu emergence again only worked to the benefit of the Reddys.

After YSR’s death in a helicopter crash in 2009, the community’s demand was that Jag­anmohan, his son, be installed as CM. When the Congress chose their most experi­enced minister in the government, K. Ros­aiah (a Bania), as CM, Jagan resigned from the party in November 2010 and formed a new party taking his father’s name. Quickly, a panicky Congress fell back upon the Reddys and installed N. Kiran Kumar Reddy as CM. To balance the fallout, the party high command also got Chiranjeevi to merge his party with the Congress.

When the Congress eventually decided to implement its election promise of 2004 and create a separate Telangana state, little did it realise that the current CM would be no different from YSR in trying to stall the process. Kiran Reddy has in fact raised a banner of rebellion, opposing the decision of the Congress leadership. Meanwhile, Jagan Reddy, fresh out of jail after a 16-month-long incarceration, too has pitched in for an undivided Andhra Pradesh. His party has even started negotiating with the Bharatiya Janata Party, which has always been a Telangana supporter.

With everyone trying to get their two pennies’ worth, the other dominant caste, the Kammas, too have decided they don’t want a separate state (they have been sharing power with the Reddys all along). They have been citing Hyd­erabad city as a bone of contention. As for the TDP under Chandrababu Naidu, they did a flip-flop on Telangana only to later oppose the division of the state.

Any change in geographical boundaries of the state will upset the territorial dominance of Reddys. Though Kamma dominance is restricted to just the Andhra region, it has economic interests in Hyderabad city. The rest of the castes are not really bothered about the outcome, for their lot is to be ruled by either the Reddys or the Kammas. This scenario of caste dominance and power can possibly be changed only by the emergence of a separate Telangana and Andhra states which will unsettle the caste equations and give rise to new democratic forces.

(Mallepalli Laxmaiah is a senior journalist and co-chair of the Telangana Joint Action Committee )

It is hard not to feel sympathetic to the telangana struggle after reading this article.

Paul ji,
What's so "great" about this farticle ?
Or are you yet another NRI bringing your casteist ego clashes from abroad to bear on the state division problem of local people ?
Going by your enthusiasm,guess its now alright by you when states "need" to be split based on caste calculations of vote bank based parties like congress, PRP etc I surmise.

Lets have a look at the Idiocy in the farticle.
Get a list of CM names -> Scan those ending with Reddy -> Make a case for Reddy "oppression" in this age -> Form Telangana against Reddy "Oppression"

After 20 years (now humans are flitting about in robotic vehicles)
Get a list of CM names of Telangana->scan those with caste name ending.
Express outrage against "oppression" by a "dominant" caste now(how about Velama's this time?).
Then on the back of this outrage Form a Malanadu , Telangana Madiganadu and a reduced Velama Telangana and a small Patwarinadu too some where for the Brahmins too - to make up for angst of PVNR supposedly being "booted" out from the state 40 years back.

After another 20 years rinse and repeat above to carve a golla nadu , then a Bhil nadu from the existing Pradesh's and Nadu's.

If OBC s are really in a revolt against the Reddy Kamma "oppression" - why is it that they don't see fit to use electoral outcomes to get "their" "share" of govt power like the Yadavs achieved in UP-Bihar ? (More importantly , Is it actually an age for such a caste based mobilization/waves hain ji?)

Yet nothing less dramatic than forcing a division of a State in the middle, destroying cultural icons and make a mess of it in the end just to establish "their" own caste dominant state will suffice according to the farticle.

Casteists like Kancha Ilaiah hanging about OU campus themselves masquerading as fighters against caste oppression will be proud.

[Rony]

http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?288760
OPINION
What’s Under A Surname? Well, A Whole State.
The protests against Telangana state’s formation have another facet: the desperation of the Reddy community to hold on to power.

Comment to that article

Shri Mallepalli Laxmaiah is a senior Telugu journalist. So one began reading his article in Outlook with some expectations of fuller coverage of issues involved, if not Objectivity. As Shri Laxmaiah is one of the vociferous advocates for a separate Telangana state, one cannot and should not expect, an academic objectivity from him. Yet one is disappointed .

In all fairness, he should not have reduced the contemporary "Save Andhra Pradesh" agitation which has been drawing crores of men, women and children on to the streets in Seemandhra, into a conspiracy hatched by just two politically and economically dominant Reddy & Kamma communities. This is simply a ridiculous and outrageous proposition.

The "Save AP" agitation has begun and run not by the Reddy & Kamma politicians with vested interests. These two dominant communities have been bypassed by the "Aam Admis" (Samaanya pourulu )of Seemandhra, for when the state is divided, the (i) Cultivators fear for loss of irrigation for their lands, (ii) the young people feel the loss of access to education and employment opportunities in the future Hyderabad city and (iii) the lakhs of people from Seemandhra who began to live in Telangana/ Hyderabad , fear for their lives and properties when the TRS parochialists come to power .

There is an historical irony here, when Shri Laxmaiah says that in the divided States/ scenarios, Kapus (an OC community in Coastal AP) --the largest (about 15 % of populationn) are likely to come to power in Seemandhra, thus replacing Reddys and Kammas. And the OBCs in general and Munnuru Kapus in particular, are likely to replace Reddy/Velama Doras in Telangana.

Here the "Historical Irony" is in terms of the fact that Reddys and Kapus were NOT different from one another till a few decades ago . The term "Reddy " refers to one's high status in a village like the "Village Head/Mukhia". In Rayalaseema till today a "pettandar"/rich and dominant person" of a village from ANY community can add "Reddy" to his name. So in R.Seema, there are Reddys from (Kapu) Reddys, Kammas, Yadavas etc .Minister Raghuveera Reddy is from the Yadava caste.

As for Telangana, when the 1921 Population Census was about to commence, the Reddy Association of Telangana had directed all its members NOT to report "Kapu" as their caste but instead report "Reddy " As usual, "One-upmanship" which is the ideological corner stone of all castes among Hindus prevailed !! So over time, Reddys and Kapus began to see them selves as "different" castes.

IN THE PRE --MODERN TIMES THERE WAS NO CASTE CATEGORY CALLED "REDDY" ! THE ANCESTORS OF THE PRESENT DAY REDDYS WERE CALLED "KAPU " ! KAPU MEANS PROTECTOR /GUARDIAN. HENCE, EARLIER ON A MAJORITY OF THE CULTIVATORS (INCUDING THE LATER DAY REDDYS) WERE CAKLLED KAPU !!

No wonder, the 1931 Census Report of Seemandhra (which was the last one to mention caste-wise figures for Seemandhra) did not report the population figures for Reddys ! They were referred to as Kapus !!

G. NIRANJAN RAO
HYDERABAD, ANDHRA PRADESH, INDIA

[Lilo]

^^There is in fact lot of intermarriage occurring since ages between Kapu and Reddy communities in Rayalaseema.

[vishvak]

That explains Kappus and Reddys population at about 10-12% of the total? Meaning all these coming from same base population. Political leadership should have dealt with this much better, especially decades after independence.

[devesh]

the author of that article does not talk about "Save AP" agitation. he's talking of AP's history since 1956. and how some groups might still be strongly motivated by their own personal gain. and more importantly, leader-less agitations don't survive. it is about being co-opted by elites: that's what makes a movement a viable one.

and as such, the power transitions since 1956 have all been the work of a small cotery. and since this cotery is based on caste, the decision-making bodies are essentially decided by birth.

there needs to be a way for others to join this group without belonging to the "super-caste" or the later-entrant which was able to gate-crash the former's party.

this is not an argument in favor of or in opposition to bifurcation. forget Telangana. this is something that needs to be figured out for the future well-being of AP. this is not some grand justification for bifurcation. at least, not from me. that's why I said that after reading that article, it's hard not feel sympathy for all Telugus.

[johneeG]

The Congress chief minister in Andhra Pradesh, N. Kiran Kumar Reddy, hasn’t shown the grace and political acumen of, say, a Digvijay Singh.

This single line is enough to discredit the author.

[Muppalla]

it's the same situation in other societies and countries. except that 20% is not restricted by birth. in most so-called "developed" countries, there is a chance to get into the 20% if you have the skills and drive. in AP, it doesn't matter. even someone of PVNR's talents can be booted out. and of course, we'll always have apologists who will claim that it was chankian plan to push such people onto the national stage....even childish naivete has its limits.

PVNR booting out is more in Telangana than any other groups. Just see his electoral history. He did not have the abilities to win on his own. During the wave of congress 1985, he lost his Karimnagar seat and fortunately he won from Ramtek, Maharashtra. The folks of Karimnagar did not vote him even as a respectable leader. Even when he became PM, he is warry of trying from Karimnagar (his native district) and instead he went for a safe seat in Rayalaseema (Nandyal) guided by Kotla Vijayabhaskhar Reddy.

Now that Telangana creation is a matter of couple of months as it is just procedure remaining, it would be good to discuss beyond this Telangana/AP divisions. Why we have to blame on so called 20%. There is a 50% population that is neither Reddy, Kamma, SC or ST on either side of durrand line. Why that whole block fall for this 20%? Why they couldn't organize themselves. Even in Telangana it is just two castes and here is it too much dominant by Reddys with no realistic opposition.

At the end of this all I can say there is really ZERO difference between regions of AP in terms of population, relations, caste and politics. It is a mirage and fiction that gets build in these articles and discussions. I will give you three.four references:
(1) T-Prakasam the first CM of Andhra was booted out
(2) PVNR couldn't develop his base and also got booted out as CM
(3) Read comments of Undavalli (Rajamundry MP). He said to his own congressmen "you all will talk to me but on my behind you will abuse me because I am .... "

When Telangana forms and time elapses for few years you will have better understanding or what I am saying. Until then entire discussion gets clouded on this division. Let me put it bluntly whether you like or not, the warrior castes just does not like Brahmins and it may not be open like in TN but that is a fact. All these Brahmin stalwarts did not grow not because or their inabilities but the system is virulently anti-Brahmin. It just became worse after the emergence of TDP. Course correction are happening but it is very difficult.

[ramana]

Add Kala Venkat Rao.


Reddy over the centuries became a title just as Naidu (form of Nayak)

-----------------

Mahdi, You wrote in the Humor thread that Acharya or Learned teacher bomb(LTB).

Above article is an excellent example of social engineering9dividing Kapus and Reddys using the Census) that was launched during British rule and validates LTB!!!

[Vayutuvan]

He did not have the abilities to win on his own. During the wave of congress 1985, he lost his Karimnagar seat and fortunately he won from Ramtek, Maharashtra. The folks of Karimnagar did not vote him even as a respectable leader.

One of his constituencies from where he won several terms became reserved. Now I don't remember whether it was his MLA or MP one. I have vague memories in bits and pieces of those days even though witnessed events first-hand from an "up close and personal" vantage point.

By the way Karimnagar is his "political" native district - not ancestral. It would be probably Medak (Pamulaparthi is in Medak, IIRC) and Vangara in Warangla where he had his zamindari/makhtedari.

[Vamsi.R]

Eenadu says CBN might be announced as NDA convenor in Jan !!

[chaanakya]

One big bad move by NDA, if that happens. CBN is a useful idiot and game in AP should be to deny Congis as many seats as possible and get as many seats for BJP as possible.

[Hari Seldon]

^^All this is media mischief... serves both the BJP and TDP well by keeping the alliance talk on-off - plausible deniablility when convenient. Nothing really gained oin a formal pre-poll alliance that can't be had in unstated seat-sharing understandings...

[Dasari]

There is a direct relationship between the velocity of state division engineered by congress and the strength of the pact between tdp- bjp for the 2014 elections.The more concrete the pact is the more disperate Congress is to send the bill to parliament and discredit tdp-bjp. If BJP votes for the bill, the pact will destroy TDP in SA. If there is no pact, congress may be contended to stall the process as long as it gives them the bragging rights to claim that they put every effort possible to form T state. On the other hand, with no division, the tdp-bjp pact will not let them hide and decimate congress even in T region.

For example, the recent ovetures by congress towards the speaker to break him away from the rest of SA legislatures and pit him directly against the CM has to be viewed in this perspective as a disperate move by Digvijay to accelerate the process of division. It is interesting to see whether Nadendla falls for it. He may be treading a dangerous path as people will associate any such move with what his father had done some 28 years ago.

[Yagnasri]

Prakasham Pantulu was kicked out because he was Brahmin. Same with any other Brahmin in AP. Entire Karanam posts were abolished by NTR because they were hereditary Brahmin posts. He also removed mirasidar positions in Tirupathi which were held by Brahmins. Attacks on NGOs were mainly because there are Brahmins in NGOs. TDP deliberately anti Brahmin for a long time and forced the community to vote for mafia. It does not change even now. Unlike DMK partywise TDP is not anti Brahmin openly, but all leaders of Kamma community openly speak anti Brahmin language and act.

One more thing is the unreliability of CBN. He simply can not bday trusted on long term basis. If there is any alliance then at least he should be asked not to contest 2/3 of MP seats in which bjp field good candidates. Let him contest assembly. Further there is no business of outside support. The MP s for tdp shall join cabinet.

[Yagnasri]

Just reported that NM and CBN met and had one to one talk for over an hour in Bhopal oath taking. Division process will get Jupiter velocity.

[RajeshA]

BJP-TDP alliance is on the cards!

[Yagnasri]

Where is that idiot Jagan? Still playing mafia game I Think. Bjp with TDP help will be powerful in T state is division takes place. Mafia B teams like Jagan need to be exposed for what they are. TRS may also wish to jump if some benefit is there to them.

[ShyamSP]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bbh_e3sCEAAfWIo.png

BJP-TDP alliance is on the cards!

I was thinking this might upset the state BJP goats. Sure enough there was news on it. Now these people will have to work under same man they were despising for last few years.

http://www.apherald.com/Politics/ViewAr ... lopments-/
Kishan Reddy and Nagam unhappy on developments!

===
http://www.apherald.com/Politics/ViewAr ... d-in-UAP-/
TRS and YSRCP alliance – Elections held in UAP?

In a parallel development, YSRCP wants to go after those areas where TDP-BJP can win in Telangana by splitting non-T and other UAP friendly voters.

It is good that, the scope of where INC can win to put number of seats in election board under its name is becoming less and less in AP. -30 in AP for INC is big blow.

[Shanmukh]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bbh_e3sCEAAfWIo.png

BJP-TDP alliance is on the cards!

I was thinking this might upset the state BJP goats. Sure enough there was news on it. Now these people will have to work under same man they were despising for last few years.

http://www.apherald.com/Politics/ViewAr ... lopments-/
Kishan Reddy and Nagam unhappy on developments!

ShyamSP-ji,
Since CBN is also agreed on Telangana (albeit in a modified form), if no Telangana is formed by Congress, can the BJP TDP make gains in Telangana at the expense of the TRS? Or are the Telangana people going to back the TRS no matter what? KCR can never give the people of Telangana a separate state, no matter how many buses he burns. Only CBN and BJP can do that. How is that realisation going to affect the electoral patterns?

[ShyamSP]

I was thinking this might upset the state BJP goats. Sure enough there was news on it. Now these people will have to work under same man they were despising for last few years.

http://www.apherald.com/Politics/ViewAr ... lopments-/
Kishan Reddy and Nagam unhappy on developments!

ShyamSP-ji,
Since CBN is also agreed on Telangana (albeit in a modified form), if no Telangana is formed by Congress, can the BJP TDP make gains in Telangana at the expense of the TRS? Or are the Telangana people going to back the TRS no matter what? KCR can never give the people of Telangana a separate state, no matter how many buses he burns. Only CBN and BJP can do that. How is that realisation going to affect the electoral patterns?

Key thing is they can make gains at the expense of Congress not TRS. They can restrict TRS to its core areas (3-4 districts) where voting margin for TRS is very high to overcome in short time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=De-4Ppe4gNg
TV9 - Chandrababu speaks at BC Simha Garjana in Nizam grounds

^But look at the video of a meeting that happened on Sunday. This is the key. CBN is Pedda BC * (elder BC) for the BC meeting where all other invitees are BCs. If TDP gives lion-share of tickets to BCs as they promised, other parties will have to overcome that undercurrent in Telangana. It the weapon TDP has to overcome the bifurcation issue.

* this is my word referring to Pedda Madiga title given to him by Madigas (SCs)

[Muppalla]

All the AP watch folks, here is my direct news based on interaction with AP-BJP top honchos over the last few days. I also attended a ATA meeting which is more Telangana friendly. Nothing is revealing that is not there in news. Overall the bottom line is T-Reddys (INC has more and next is BJP that has more) are virulently anti-TDP.

The central BJP is well set to go with TDP whether AP is divided or not-divided. It was the T-BJP that is stopping the formal announcement. They want to wait it out until end of January. Here are snippets:

(1) The feeling inside T-BJP (also called as AP-BJP ) is that come what may the bifurcation of the state is more important than winning elections. Perception wise TDP is a United State proponent and it is only talking T-state just to keep its flock in Telangana not jumping guns. Going with TDP in Telangana is something the BJP is not interested.

(2) The argument put forth by T-BJP to central command is that whether is Uttaranchal or Jharkhand, the regional parties cannot exist in more than one state. SP and BSP are no more in UT while RJD and JDU are no more in JHK. Similarly both TDP and Jagan will cease to exist in Telangana. They will have to fight it out is residual AP only. Why to go in an alliance with TDP when all of its folks will have to find new home if the state is bifurcated? By going in an alliance with TDP it will be given unnecessary long lease of life.

(3) If INC does fast-track bifurcation, then the T-TDP will do a jump into BJP and after that the coalition can only be talked on the AP side. Basically T-BJP does not want to do a fast track coalition.

(4) Admitted negative story of T-BJP - It does not have the cadre like T-TDP or the money power to compete like T-TDP with T-INC or TRS. Hence it don't rule out coalition but want to wait for the situation that arises after T-state is formed. All expectations are before February end there will be two states.

TDP's game plan:
(1) The ground is definitely slipping away for TDP in Telangana
(2) Modi factor is the most positive thing that they have to use to be relevant
(3) It is neither in good shape on the residual-AP side with Jagan taking away most of the INC space

(4) They visualize two things
(a) T-TDP is vulnerable and may not survive and to keep the T-TDP not doing jumping jacks, they pre-empted and propagated very heavily that they are going with BJP. The local cadre is already putting cut-outs with CBN and Modi. All posters are CBN+Modi. This is piss-off situation for T-BJP as they cannot ask TDP to remove Modi but they don't want this to happen. The situation for T-BJP worsened because no one is coming forward to T-BJP assuming that their seat may go to T-TDP due to coalition. Everyone is in a standstill with hopes of a coalition. For CBN, this is one more moment where he saved his party again. If bifurcated, things may be different and hence CBN is putting a lot pressure on BJP to announce the coalition soon.

(b) His move to align with Modi has a different configuration on the residual-AP side. The mood there is to kill congress even from deep roots. The jumping jacks there could jump to Jagan. Everyone want to be part of Modi's aura. So by preempting a TDP-BJP alliance, he has give hope to those who don't like Jagan and TDP. The move is that all those honchos in current congress including the current CM ultimately will have to join either Jagan, TDP or BJP. Venkiah Naidu and several movers and shakers are working on a plan. There could be a BJP that ultimately a winnable force in alliance with TDP. This will dent Jagan big time. A lot of wealthy are coming forward to contest on BJP ticket if they go in alliance with TDP. The grass root help is required even if a lot of money is spent and that is what TDP want to cash on.

(5) As a strategy, TDP want to contest more Assembly seats and yield more MP seats to BJP which is icing on the cake for central BJP.

(6) The last straw for TDP is if by God's grace the bifurcation is stopped using procedural wrangles by AP top honchos inside Congress, and then they jump to BJP or TDP that is a huge win-win. Later they all can cook something to stop the bifurcation for ever in the next term.

Modi factor may not be visible but it is there and will explode as a factor big time. Overall the situation is extremely flux and game is interesting. INC is definitely behaving like a headless chicken. The one and only one factor they have is a INC+MIM+TRS with a clear T-state formation to be relevant in Telugu lands.

[Shanmukh]

Key thing is they can make gains at the expense of Congress not TRS. They can restrict TRS to its core areas (3-4 districts) where voting margin for TRS is very high to overcome in short time.

Thanks, ShyamSP-ji. The 3-4 districts you refer to are Karimnagar, Medak, Adilabad, and Nizamabad? If these are the four districts, then the BJP will be able to contribute precious little to the alliance except perhaps in Greater Hyderabad, and maybe Mahabubnagar and Nagarkurnool. The BJP's contribution will be only the Modi popularity? While they are all TRS strongholds, they are also the places from which BJP derives most of its own strength. It will be interesting to see what happens in the eastern parts of Telangana - Warangal, Khamman, even Nalagonda.

Regarding the no-confidence motion brought by the Cong MPs (Rayapati Sambashiva Rao, Sabbam Hari, Sai Pratap, Lagadapati Rajagopal, G V Harshakumar, and Undavalli Arun Kumar), what are the Congress options regarding them? Are they going to be expelled, or will they voluntarily leave the party? If so, what are their options?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=De-4Ppe4gNg
TV9 - Chandrababu speaks at BC Simha Garjana in Nizam grounds

^But look at the video of a meeting that happened on Sunday. This is the key. CBN is Pedda BC * (elder BC) for the BC meeting where all other invitees are BCs. If TDP gives lion-share of tickets to BCs as they promised, other parties will have to overcome that undercurrent in Telangana. It the weapon TDP has to overcome the bifurcation issue.

* this is my word referring to Pedda Madiga title given to him by Madigas (SCs)

Thanks for the video, ShyamSP-ji. I can understand Telugu reasonably enough (just hesitant to speak it, though).

[Muppalla]

BJP-TDP alliance is on the cards!

That pic is a keeper. Once the great secular CBN is sandwiched between Thakrey and Modi

[vishvak]

About secular part, isn't RSS ideology of not bothering about cast part and parcel of Modi effect. Fact is such ideas could be uniting factor (similar to pseudo secularism passed off as secularism to gather anti Hindu elements). So BJP could live up its own ideology a little more to negate anti-x or anti-y mentality. X and y could be Brahmin or Kamma or Reddy etc.

Surprisingly, in pseudo secularism such anti-x literature is present, as part and parcel of claim of truly secular only!

[hanumadu]

Finally, someone from Telengana voicing his analysis on the subject.

There have reams of articles and comments from ill informed people blaming political parties on this subject but the caste angle analysis lacking in BR IMHO particularly the Reddy community. This article gave me the clearest perspective on the Telanagana imbroglio to date.

Till now what was discussed on BRF was a smoke screen covering the real causes of thehe angst of the Telangana folks. Me thinks if Telangana is not formed the locals may resort to other means to get what they are looking for.

http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?288760

OPINION
What’s Under A Surname? Well, A Whole State.
The protests against Telangana state’s formation have another facet: the desperation of the Reddy community to hold on to power
MALLEPALLI LAXMAIAH

A State Of Flux

Dominant castes Reddys and Kammas form 8 per cent and 4-5 per cent of the population in present-day Andhra Pradesh
United Andhra makes Reddys stronger because they are split between the Andhra and Telangana regions. Feudal dominance continues in Telangana.
Kammas want a united AP as business interests in cinema, industry, IT, real estate lie in Hyderabad, which is in Telangana
United AP must for Reddy dominance: division will split their social base, reduce them politically
In a divided state, the regions will throw up new influential political groups. In Andhra, Kapus (10-15%) and Malas (15-20%); in Telangana: Velamas (8%), Madigas (20%), Malas (15%).
In a separate Andhra state, Reddy and Kamma CMs will get replaced by either Kapu (Chiranjeevi) or a Mala (Panabaka Laxmi/J.D. Seelam). In Telangana, it could be a Velama Dora (KCR) with Madiga dy CM.
***

It is hard not to feel sympathetic to the telangana struggle after reading this article.

I have told before that separation will reduce the influence of the Reddys and it is a factor for the movement. But folks here kept insisting that it will benefit the Reddys. The caste percentages by the author are off I think. There is no way Madigas and Malas combined are 35% in Telangana. They would be forming the govt. every time if that was the case. And also Chiranjeevi is not an OBC AFAIK. He is an OC. All in all, not a factually accurate article, I would say.

[ShyamSP]

http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?288760
...
Dominant castes Reddys and Kammas form 8 per cent and 4-5 per cent of the population in present-day Andhra Pradesh
United Andhra makes Reddys stronger because they are split between the Andhra and Telangana regions. Feudal dominance continues in Telangana.
Kammas want a united AP as business interests in cinema, industry, IT, real estate lie in Hyderabad, which is in Telangana
United AP must for Reddy dominance: division will split their social base, reduce them politically
In a divided state, the regions will throw up new influential political groups. In Andhra, Kapus (10-15%) and Malas (15-20%); in Telangana: Velamas (8%), Madigas (20%), Malas (15%).
In a separate Andhra state, Reddy and Kamma CMs will get replaced by either Kapu (Chiranjeevi) or a Mala (Panabaka Laxmi/J.D. Seelam). In Telangana, it could be a Velama Dora (KCR) with Madiga dy CM.
...

I have told before that separation will reduce the influence of the Reddys and it is a factor for the movement. But folks here kept insisting that it will benefit the Reddys. The caste percentages by the author are off I think. There is no way Madigas and Malas combined are 35% in Telangana. They would be forming the govt. every time if that was the case. And also Chiranjeevi is not an OBC AFAIK. He is an OC. All in all, not a factually accurate article, I would say.

Ignoring inaccuracies in the article, division reduces Reddy influence in Seemandhra areas as their voting percentage can go down 2% I think, and conversely Kamma count goes up. Similar case may be with Malas and Madigas. Reddy influence in Telangana is less likely to go down but major factor is combined strength which is essential goes down.

Ironically, Reddys are fighting for separation to reduce overall influence and to reduce their share of Seemandhra wealth. But Kammas benefit a lot in Seemandhra from bifurcation but ironically majority of them are fighting for United AP. Kammas and Kapus benefit in Coastal side as business and agriculture ownership is less likely to suffer. BCs and SCs suffer if they don't transform in their skills and move out of agriculture work.

It is lower castes that need United AP. With split, combined state strength goes down and both individually becomes less influential beyond their states. Lower castes political power and their entitlements will go down too (relatively speaking). For BCs in T there is some hope if they tag along TDP which needs to transform itself as openly BC party in Telangana. In Telangana, INC and TRS can't get out of the caste politics even after split as they are run by Reddys and Velamas, respectively. BJP will become less and less of a party over time unless it energizes Hindu meme and makes caste less relevant.