India-US Strategic News and Discussion

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 18 Dec 2013 16:50

sum wrote: How did our immigration not catch this if the hubby, child were barred from travel by court?
Arent the immigration desks "red-flag" lists updated based on court rulings/Passport numbers?

Exactly. It looks like someone deliberately let the husband and child go.

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 18 Dec 2013 16:50

Devyani gets full immunity.

She deserves reparations. A mere sorry will not do. Will the Indian government force this?

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 18 Dec 2013 16:51

Neela wrote:
Brahma Chellaney ‏@Chellaney 12m

Don't let the sound & fury spook you: India has only withdrawn nonreciprocal privileges to US diplomats & unblocked roads. Is this reprisal?

Now here is someone who did not get fooled by the GoI dog and pony show. Removal of barricades indeed.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 18 Dec 2013 16:53

A sorry or an apology and reparations will not be sufficient as far as I am concerned.

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 18 Dec 2013 16:56

Given that maid's family has been flown over, this clearly is a conspiracy to terrorise Indian diplomats in US, with Devyani being the scapegoat.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 18 Dec 2013 16:57

CNN IBN > MEA : US facilitated escape of maid's husband and kids to America

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 18 Dec 2013 17:05

pankajs wrote:A sorry or an apology and reparations will not be sufficient as far as I am concerned.

My initial thoughts were some sorry redneck NYPD moron acting alone. Why go conspiracy when it can be explained by incompetence. Unfortunately,This has a conspiracy written all over it. Facts as of today are. It has driven a wedge in India-US future relationship and derailed some major deal between US and 10 Janpath which we dont know yet. Although EJ angle has been brought up by fellows here, I think this is much more sinister. What is certain is DK or someone in her staff did some major damage to US or were about to do. It would be nice if Gurus can ponder on this possibility.
What made this happen and Where do we go from here?

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 18 Dec 2013 17:15

Apols if already posted...

saumitra_j · Post by **saumitra_j** » 18 Dec 2013 17:24

Altair wrote:I think this is much more sinister. What is certain is DK or someone in her staff did some major damage to US or were about to do. It would be nice if Gurus can ponder on this possibility. What made this happen and Where do we go from here?

my CT is that this Sangeeta Richards was hired by the CIA and their modus operandi got exposed - DK was terrorized to show that Massa means business - why else would they fly this woman and her family out??
US SD has done a big Qtiapa on this one IMHO, they have ended up uniting the entire country against them and forget any "strategic plans" for the foreseeable future. India loses, but we will have to lose in the short term to gain in the long term. In the real long term, we should develop capabilities to take out anti India people anywhere - that DCH is such an eyesore and he is still living and we can do nothing about it is something that tells us where we are and how far we have to go!

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 18 Dec 2013 17:35

The latest revelations take the affair into an entirely new orbit now. It is now incumbent upon GoI to retaliate even more forcefully. The US embassy/consul that issued the visa to the missing maid's family and whisked them away to the US are complicit in violating Indian laws. They need to be arrested forthwith.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 18 Dec 2013 17:41

Do we know what was Mr. Richards doing for a living in India ?

India has to impound the passport of Mr. Richards and his family demand that the US extradites them.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 18 Dec 2013 17:43

rohit, given the latest it smells more CIA than EJ to me, not discounting that it might be both, of course.

SS, we didn't do that for the R&AW mole, what are the chances we will do it for the husband of a maid.

a_bharat · Post by **a_bharat** » 18 Dec 2013 17:48

India should make US to cut its staff in India to bare minimum. The bigger the staff, the easier it is for the CIA to operate and develop networks in India.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 18 Dec 2013 18:04

Devyani Khobragade arrest row: India accuses US of immigration fraud

In the middle of a snowballing diplomatic row over the arrest and humiliation of high-ranking Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade in the US, India has accused the American government of facilitating immigration fraud by the woman who worked for the diplomat and whose complaint led to the latter's arrest.

Anindya · Post by **Anindya** » 18 Dec 2013 18:10

If this is a case of espionage - then the least that should be done is to put the faces of Sangeeta and her husband on media outlets as absconders.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 18 Dec 2013 18:16

Anindya wrote:If this is a case of espionage - then the least that should be done is to put the faces of Sangeeta and her husband on media outlets as absconders.

That will help them to claim persecution and a very easy way to permanant US resident status.

Maybe richards was planted in the Indian consular offices. Khobraghade's husband is also posted in the US. Probably had a pattern of bringing work papers home to work on.??

Shades of Ravinder Singh??

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 18 Dec 2013 18:20

This sordid act ,one has just seen on TV that our lady diplomat was "violated" with her orifices being "searched" makes the US
actions even more heinous and despicable.The US perverts who masquerade as diplomats need to be taught a signal lesson that will reverberate for decades.Would they have treated a Russian or Chinese diplomat similarly? No way Jose! Sadly,this is also due to the servile nature of Indian diplomacy under the "Surrender" Singh regime,where the US has been given priviliges over and above the Vienna Convention,plus allowed to ride roughshod over Indian foreign policy,Sharam-Al-Sheijh,etc., etc,being prime examples.Indian servility over the NSA's spying saw us squeak only after strong pressure from Brazil.All these years Man Mohan Singh has acted as if he was a loyal US govt. employee rather than that of the PM of India and his eunuch Mins. of the MEA acted likewise.It is hilarious seeing them trying to act otherwise in the current situ!

One has heard reports that many important decisions related to Indian defence,the Rafale deal etc., have been deliberately sabotaged or delayed by the US.It is an inescapable fact that the US does not want India to have any decent military superiority over Pakistan whatsoever due to its perverted and promiscuous relationship with that terrorist nation. It has shielded terrorists like Headley,who was a US agent responsible in great part for 26/11. ,plus allegedly bankrolled the KKNPP protests through bogus NGOs in an attempt to sabotage the opening of the plant and derail the Indo-Russian nuclear cooperation.So much for the "strategic partnership".

India must cancel its pending defence deals with the US which have yet to be signed.It must also cancel military exercises with its forces and take hard action against US diplomats who have violated Indian laws.Above all the Nuclear deal with the US must be sent to the dustbin,as in any case the US N-companies refuse to sign on the Liability clauses which our parliament has enacted in a bill.Stopping liquor imports for its diplomatic staff as the use of the "stick",is a sick joke as any number of western embassies and USA cronies will send supplies to Uncle Sam's perverts in diplomatic disguise!

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 18 Dec 2013 18:22

Rahul M wrote:rohit, given the latest it smells more CIA than EJ to me, not discounting that it might be both, of course

If Richards was working for CIA and they planned the extraction for her family, then MEA stands compromised and it will come out in media anyways and heads in MEA will roll. A Dy.Consul compromised by CIA in NY is big deal. If it was the case, MEA would have covered it up and suckedup the insult. They are ballistic as of now.
Would MEA be ballistic as they are today if DK was compromised by her maid and let state secrets to CIA?
This may not add up.

Anindya · Post by **Anindya** » 18 Dec 2013 18:25

Diplomat Devyani Khobragade a victim of conspiracy: Khurshid

“She is innocent…It is not the illegality that she (Khobragade) is accused of, but the illegality she refused to oblige,” External Affairs Minister Salman Khurshid told Parliament about Khobragade who has suffered ill-treatment for allegedly paying her maid servant a salary less than minimum wages under the US laws.

Narrating the sequence of events that began in June-July this year, he said the maid servant disappeared and a case was lodged with New York Police Department but no action was taken.

“The Deputy Consul General (later) received a phone call from a lawyer who refused to identify himself and offered to settle the matter that would result in grant of permanent citizenship to her and a huge compensation. It became clear that this was a conspiracy and some people trapped her,” he said.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 18 Dec 2013 18:27

Philip wrote:This sordid act ,one has just seen on TV that our lady diplomat was "violated" with her orifices being "searched" makes the US
actions even more heinous and despicable.The US perverts who masquerade as diplomats need to be taught a signal lesson that will reverberate for decades.Would they have treated a Russian or Chinese diplomat similarly? No way Jose! Sadly,this is also due to the servile nature of Indian diplomacy under the "Surrender" Singh regime,where the US has been given priviliges over and above the Vienna Convention,plus allowed to ride roughshod over Indian foreign policy,Sharam-Al-Sheijh,etc., etc,being prime examples.

One has heard reports that many important decisions related to Indian defence,the Rafale deal etc., have been deliberately sabotaged or delayed by the US.It is an inescapable fact that the US does not want India to have any decent military superiority over Pakistan whatsoever due to its perverted and promiscuous relationship with that terrorist nation. It has shielded terrorists like Headley,who was a US agent responsible in great part for 26/11. ,plus allegedly bankrolled the KKNPP protests through bogus NGOs in an attempt to sabotage the opening of the plant and derail the Indo-Russian nuclear cooperation.So much for the "strategic partnership".

India must cancel its pending defence deals with the US which have yet to be signed.It must also cancel military exercises with its forces and take hard action against US diplomats who have violated Indian laws.Above all the Nuclear deal with the US must be sent to the dustbin,as in any case the US N-companies refuse to sign on the Liability clauses which our parliament has enacted in a bill.Stopping liquor imports for its diplomatic staff as the use of the "stick",is a sick joke as any number of western embassies and USA cronies will send supplies to Uncle Sam's perverts in diplomatic disguise!

Highly unlikely saar.

Too many babus and politicians from all parties with relatives in the US and sweet deals provided by the State Dept.

Both sides will now cover it all up smartly. Don't forget kurshit is in the MEA

I think that the IFS babu crowd has finessed the politicians on this one. Don't really think that the congis will have the guts to take on the US state dept. They have too much to lose personally including ranee's periodic enigmatic visits to the home of the brave.

Anindya · Post by **Anindya** » 18 Dec 2013 18:28

Chetak ji - I do not think that Sangeeta & her family are coming back to India, but it is important to expose such people and shame them.

I agree with you - this is beginning to sound and smell like Ravinder Singh.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 18 Dec 2013 18:30

Anindya wrote:Diplomat Devyani Khobragade a victim of conspiracy: Khurshid

“She is innocent…It is not the illegality that she (Khobragade) is accused of, but the illegality she refused to oblige,” External Affairs Minister Salman Khurshid told Parliament about Khobragade who has suffered ill-treatment for allegedly paying her maid servant a salary less than minimum wages under the US laws.

Narrating the sequence of events that began in June-July this year, he said the maid servant disappeared and a case was lodged with New York Police Department but no action was taken.

“The Deputy Consul General (later) received a phone call from a lawyer who refused to identify himself and offered to settle the matter that would result in grant of permanent citizenship to her and a huge compensation. It became clear that this was a conspiracy and some people trapped her,” he said.

I am sure that if the free board, perks and lodging of the maid was monetized, the sum would far exceed the promised salary on the visa application.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 18 Dec 2013 18:32

Anindya wrote:Chetak ji - I do not think that Sangeeta & her family are coming back to India, but it is important to expose such people and shame them.

I agree with you - this is beginning to sound and smell like Ravinder Singh.

Agree with you, Anindya ji.

Next step is the state dept version of the witness protection program.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 18 Dec 2013 18:34

SSridhar wrote:Do we know what was Mr. Richards doing for a living in India ?

India has to impound the passport of Mr. Richards and his family demand that the US extradites them.

No grounds for extradition, or impounding passport sirjee. This has been well planned.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 18 Dec 2013 18:46

Altair wrote:
Rahul M wrote:rohit, given the latest it smells more CIA than EJ to me, not discounting that it might be both, of course
If Richards was working for CIA and they planned the extraction for her family, then MEA stands compromised and it will come out in media anyways and heads in MEA will roll. A Dy.Consul compromised by CIA in NY is big deal. If it was the case, MEA would have covered it up and suckedup the insult. They are ballistic as of now.
Would MEA be ballistic as they are today if DK was compromised by her maid and let state secrets to CIA?
This may not add up.

heads in MEA won't roll for something like that. only the officer concerned might be punished if he/she was determined to be culpable or incompetent. MEA has no reason to hush up a brazen aggression against it.

for all we know, GOI/MEA took steps against richards and her family for this very reason and US pre-empted it to prevent any more disclosures by attacking DK herself.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 18 Dec 2013 18:50

Rahul M wrote:
Altair wrote:{quote="Rahul M"}rohit, given the latest it smells more CIA than EJ to me, not discounting that it might be both, of course{/quote}

If Richards was working for CIA and they planned the extraction for her family, then MEA stands compromised and it will come out in media anyways and heads in MEA will roll. A Dy.Consul compromised by CIA in NY is big deal. If it was the case, MEA would have covered it up and suckedup the insult. They are ballistic as of now.
Would MEA be ballistic as they are today if DK was compromised by her maid and let state secrets to CIA?
This may not add up.
heads in MEA won't roll for something like that. only the officer concerned might be punished if he/she was determined to be culpable or incompetent. MEA has no reason to hush up a brazen aggression against it.

for all we know, GOI/MEA took steps against richards and her family for this very reason and US pre-empted it to prevent any more disclosures by attacking DK herself.

Deliberate public spectacle to cover up something deeper in the Indian embassy, perhaps??

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 18 Dec 2013 19:03

^^We still don't know who it was in the Chicago consular office who processed David Coleman Headley's visa to India... There's no way inside-MEA aid was not used to make that happen.

ldev · Post by **ldev** » 18 Dec 2013 19:09

matrimc wrote:
ldev wrote: A quick disclaimer that without knowing the specifics of the case, the following is speculation. Under US law any hours worked in excess of 40 hours per week need to be paid at a premium rate of at least 1.5x the regular rate.
Not necessarily. 1x is also acceptable with prior contract. If there is no union involved, there need not be any overtime pay. Disclaimer: ianal

http://www.dol.gov/dol/topic/wages/overtimepay.htm

Employees covered by the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) must receive overtime pay for hours worked in excess of 40 in a workweek of at least one and one-half times their regular rates of pay.

and the exceptions from being covered by FLSA

The FLSA requires that most employees in the United States be paid at least the federal minimum wage for all hours worked and overtime pay at time and one-half the regular rate of pay for all hours worked over 40 hours in a workweek.
However, Section 13(a)(1) of the FLSA provides an exemption from both minimum wage and overtime pay for employees employed as bona fide executive, administrative, professional and outside sales employees. Section 13(a)(1) and Section 13(a)(17) also exempt certain computer employees. To qualify for exemption, employees generally must meet certain tests regarding their job duties and be paid on a salary basis at not less than $455 per week. Job titles do not determine exempt status. In order for an exemption to apply, an employee’s specific job duties and salary must meet all the requirements of the Department’s regulations.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 18 Dec 2013 19:19

chetak wrote: Deliberate public spectacle to cover up something deeper in the Indian embassy, perhaps??

by getting the US to do this very dubious act ? MEA is that powerful ?

wasu · Post by **wasu** » 18 Dec 2013 19:25

http://zeenews.india.com/news/nation/th ... 97663.html

...
In fact, none of the 49 Russian diplomats and their spouses charged by Bharara a week earlier with scamming Medicaid, a government health care programme for low-income families, out of USD 1.5 million over a decade, are in custody as they enjoy diplomatic immunity.

Eleven of them still reside in the US with six of them representing Russia in New York.

None of them can be prosecuted unless Russia waives diplomatic immunity, which is pretty unlikely.
...

Kati · Post by **Kati** » 18 Dec 2013 19:36

The rumors say that the maid made off with valuable info from the
diplomat's residence. Also, DK rebuffed unkil's overtures to share
her knowledge about Af-pak area.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 Dec 2013 19:39

Diplomat now stands transferred to permanent indian un mission.

member_22872 · Post by **member_22872** » 18 Dec 2013 19:46

wasu ji, exactly. US gov is selective in application of their laws. They break it when they want to. They bomb other countries when they want to.

Idev ji,
I understand that following US laws etc are important, but US chooses to be selective. They decide when to apply the laws and when not to, very similar to their policies with regards to supporting democracies and dictators. Does US pay the same salaries to Indians working in US consulates in India as they pay to their American counterparts? everyone knows the answer. Why is that equal wage law is not applicable here? the people are the same, US is after all the champion on equality etc?

When Ms. Richard absconded, Indian gov filed a case with NYPD, why is that knowingly US gov stalled or ignored GoI's pleas? selective application of law and then you trying to discuss it seems like you are ignoring working of wheels within wheels. So it doesn't matter if Indian diplomat broke the law. US gov is selective in application of the law. So the hell with it.

Why is that an Indian diplomat is handcuffed and mistreated? US didn't do the same in the Russian diplomat's case. Do you think the US consulate guys in India never broke Indian laws?

krithivas · Post by **krithivas** » 18 Dec 2013 19:56

+ The fact that this young diplomat was a Dalit it was assumed somewhere in the US foggy bottom departments that this perverse sick violation would be ignored. Good that India continues to speak out loud.

Ardeshir · Post by **Ardeshir** » 18 Dec 2013 19:57

Idev, the labour laws don't really apply here. Quoting Article 47 of the Vienna Convention once again:
Article 47
Exemption From Work Permits

Members of the consular post shall, with respect to services rendered for the sending State, be exempt from any obligations in regard to work permits imposed by the laws and regulations of the receiving State concerning the employment of foreign labour.
Members of the private staff of consular officers and of consular employees shall, if they do not carry on any other gainful occupation in the receiving State, be exempt from the obligations referred to in paragraph 1 of this Article.

member_22872 · Post by **member_22872** » 18 Dec 2013 19:59

I think India should ratchet it up a bit, Traffic rule violations by US consulate employees happen always, they might not pay the fine for spitting on Indian roads

etc, throw them in jail. Let them rot for some days. We can always look at rule books in leisure and "tender an apology" later.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 18 Dec 2013 20:01

Prasant, yes. I just heard Mr. Sikri spell it out exactly on the HT channel. This shows the clear violation of the US in arresting and humiliating our officer under the guise of US Marshals, standard procedure and other such paraphernalia about which we give a damn.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 Dec 2013 20:18

from the russian diplomat article - kudos to putin saar as usual.
In response to a U.S. law enacted in December 2012 that bars Russians seen as human rights abusers from entering the United States, Russian President Vladimir Putin signed off that same month on a similar law barring some Americans, including some U.S. Justice Department officials, from Russia. Bharara is among those banned from Russia.

Prasant, the link to vienna convention I searched for did not have the text you posted anywhere
http://www.ediplomat.com/nd/treaties/di ... ations.htm

pls post your source.

member_22872 · Post by **member_22872** » 18 Dec 2013 20:19

Family of Devyani’s maid whisked off to US 2 days before diplomat’s arrest

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 Dec 2013 20:23

so why on earth is a maid so important for the US to do a rabinder singh for her?
if true, clearly she must have been a "asset" who was probably used to approach and solicit our diplomat becoming an "asset"...and when rejected she might have stolen something carelessly left lying around at home (like say confidential stuff on laptops) and made off with it.

or may IB broke up some asset gang locally in India and this is a crutch to put pressure?

while our intel might sometimes let people run around to see who they sit with, this time its due for a general cleanup and coming down HARD with a danda on any "assets" here. and in terms of TOT this is one area we have a lot to learn from Russiaian expertise