India-US Strategic News and Discussion

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Dec 2013 20:36

SSridhar wrote:Many people are confusing the issue. Whether Devyani was doing something illegal or not is for the court to determine. The problem lies with the way she was handled. No country would tolerate its diplomats being handled this way, even for grave crimes. Period. I do not know why this simple fact refuses to sink in.

That is the crux of the matter.
- A country should not ill treat diplomats of other coutnries. Its a custom from 3000 years ago and even in Judeo-Christian memes which the US proudly claims to be an inheritor and upholder.

- Secondly the US marshals standard operating procedures makes them no better than the Libiyan terrorists who attacked the US enovy in Benghazi.

- Thirdly some members are getting clouded in their judegments based on the maid's last name. And others from their possible encounters with arrogant IFS personnel. All these should not cloud the issue that a diplomat and that too a lady has been humiliated by US by subjectng her to saem treatment as their envoy was treated in Benghazi attack. The official spokespersons justifng US behavior should keep that in mind.
-Fourthly I had said yesterday there seem to be wheels within wheels in this case and bingo the US faciliatitng the emigration of the maid's family shows its a premediated covert action. The US behaviour to wards India was akin to US behavior to an enemy state like Former Soviet Union.

- Fifthly when news broke out some members claimed conspiracy t and I believe they got warned. Now even Salman Khurshid says the same. Please let the facts speak.

I think the maid is spy. She has handed over useful info to the US. Hence the extrication of the spy's family.

The case has same modus operandi as the Rabinder Singh.

The good thing is the case brings out all the MUTU and agents under influence in India out i the open with their support to US action.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 Dec 2013 20:41

within next few days it should become clear whether her family was indeed evacuated. if so, clearly she was a spy.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 Dec 2013 20:54

To ensure complete diplomatic immunity to Devyani Khobragade, India has shifted her to the permanent New York diplomatic mission, The Indian Express reported. There however is a complication. According to The Indian Express report, Devyani will have to apply for a fresh diplomatic card through the UN Secretariat, which would ultimately go for clearance to the US State Department. India is hopeful that Washington will issue the card and, in doing so, extend full immunity to her. If this process were to go through, sources said, it would ensure that Khobragade would not be subjected to any arrest or custodial interrogation in the future, the report further states.

Read more at: http://www.firstpost.com/india/live-did ... ef_article

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 Dec 2013 20:54

According to a PTI flash, Khobragade's absconding maid Sangeeta Richard's family flew to New York on 10 December, just two days before the diplomat's arrest.

Read more at: http://www.firstpost.com/india/live-did ... ef_article

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 18 Dec 2013 20:56

Prasant wrote:Idev, the labour laws don't really apply here. Quoting Article 47 of the Vienna Convention once again:
Article 47
Exemption From Work Permits

Members of the consular post shall, with respect to services rendered for the sending State, be exempt from any obligations in regard to work permits imposed by the laws and regulations of the receiving State concerning the employment of foreign labour.
Members of the private staff of consular officers and of consular employees shall, if they do not carry on any other gainful occupation in the receiving State, be exempt from the obligations referred to in paragraph 1 of this Article.

Could the underlined be the reason that (a coached) Sangeeta Richard asked permission to moonlight?

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 18 Dec 2013 21:01

people even on BRF who insist of justifying US actions even as it increasingly becomes clear that this is a case of espionage, and Devyani's arrest might have been nothing more than a vendetta by the petty US Intel for not falling for their designs, have lost all perspective and should really consider why they are on BRF in the first place.

the onus is now completely on India and GoI to respond fittingly. this cannot be taken lightly. what we have is a case of espionage, most likely. they went so far as to put a diplomat through a harrowing ordeal just to feel satisfaction at her misery. this cannot go unanswered, as that will simply signal every sundry country to do something similar and get away scot-free.

Ardeshir · Post by **Ardeshir** » 18 Dec 2013 21:02

Singha wrote:
Prasant, the link to vienna convention I searched for did not have the text you posted anywhere
http://www.ediplomat.com/nd/treaties/di ... ations.htm

pls post your source.

Singha Saar, here is my source - http://www.sos.state.tx.us/border/intlp ... enna.shtml As rednecky as it gets!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Dec 2013 21:03

Singha wrote:According to a PTI flash, Khobragade's absconding maid Sangeeta Richard's family flew to New York on 10 December, just two days before the diplomat's arrest.

Read more at: http://www.firstpost.com/india/live-did ... ef_article

So as a pre-emptive move the US arrested the diplomat and humiliated her to preclude the spy charges.

In the porcess they unveiled all the MUTU and agents in India who came out to bat for US lawful behavior.

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 18 Dec 2013 21:06

Even if this is a chota-mota espionage, I don't think the amirkhans would go the length of taking care of not just the maid but her entire family and then going ahead with not just arresting the lady diplomat but even enforcing the state sponsored sexual assault on such a flimsy charge.

So, this maid seems to have done something really spectacular for her to earn this generosity from the amirkhans and the diplomat seems to have earned the ire of the amirkhans. So, I think something is not being put out in open. Maybe amirkhans planned something through this maid and the diplomat checkmated it.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 18 Dec 2013 21:07

JE Menon wrote:OK...now it begins to trickle out. EAM won't make a statement like that in parliament without proper brief...

Looks like there is a serious tussle within US bureaucracy, and one side is using this as a blow to drive a wedge against the "let's get even closer to India" group. For "the illegality she refused to oblige" it means more than State Department bureaucracy is involved here. Some information will spill... Very curious.

Somebody had to decide, "OK, take down this chick" - and that's certainly not the NYPD. Under normal circumstances, for what seems like a pay dispute, the diplomat probably won't even have to leave the premises. The "degree of immunity" business is pure BS (as the US knows, and it's diplomats in India will soon feel first hand).

Guys, please don't get sidetracked by this EJ bullshit. It may have some role, but more likely it is the other angle - someone throwing a controlled hissy fit in very Foggy Bottom (combined with other issues).

Needs to be seen in the light of HR 417. Veteran India-baiters Joseph Pitts and Frank Wolf moved a resolution in Congress recently that seemed to serve no purpose other than criticizing India's "human rights record", and commending the USCIS for continuing to deny Narendra Modi a visa. Pitts was on the ISI/Fai payroll and is also a known political proxy of EJ groups (so it isn't exactly "bullshit".)

As it happened, HR 417 was tabled in late Nov-early Dec and flopped. Important Congressmen who had originally backed it, including Steve Chabot, withdrew sponsorship when they found out what it was all about. Ed Royce, leader of the House Subcommittee on South Asia, attacked the resolution for its potential to unnecessarily damage Indo-US relations. Eni Faleomavega openly criticized the sponsors for targeting Modi, and interfering in the democratic process of another nation.

That incident has been very quickly followed up by this Devayani kerfuffle. Properly spun, the affair has all the makings of a "Human Rights" drama... domestic help (conveniently a Christian) being "persecuted" and "underpaid", plenty of opportunity to bash India for what our House Lemurian Theo Fidel calls "a culture of servitude" and "being Desi", etc. We could hardly be too far off the mark in suspecting a link between the backers of HR 417 and this rubbish... obviously, having failed in Congress, they are now diverting their resources to a fight in the realm of (US) public opinion.

One thing about Preet Bharara. He owes his rise very largely to Chuck Schumer, an NY senator who has long been deeply anti-India. Shortly after 9/11, a reporter from an Afghan newspaper asked Schumer (at a press conference) why the US continues to aid Pakistan despite its clear links to terrorist activity against America and its allies. Schumer was heard remarking snidely to an aide that "the guy must be an Indian" for asking such questions (even though he wasn't.) Schumer is very close to the Paki SD official Huma Abedin and her husband, Anthony Weiner, as well. While Schumer, unlike Pitts and co., hasn't been openly associated with the Pakistani lobby-- there is no question where his sympathies lie.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 18 Dec 2013 21:08

So Sangita Richard's in-laws work in the US embassy. And her husband and kids were Fedex-ed to the US, while her visa status was dubious!!!

that means her husband is a US citizen ????

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 Dec 2013 21:13

probably seeking political asylum there under official patronage. he would be wheeled out in HR "hearings" to wail about "churches being burned" and "vandals breaking up sunday mass" at a more opportune time.

we might have seen only 50% of the iceberg at this time. India either has to get her out of there and then say the full story, or catch a similar ranked diplomat violating some local law to gain equal leverage. denying cheap liquor import for the ambassadors annual burra khana is like a slap on the wrist. many of the fawning delhi elites including ministers are always on such consulate party invite lists.

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 18 Dec 2013 21:18

Maid's parents working for US diplomats and embassy is a dead giveaway of being groomed. Legal action against husband in India by Delhi police is also indicative of the fact that India was aware of something much deeper. Could be the Christian maid approached the Dalit Devyani on behalf of CIA to become a mole but when that backfired, she was taken away by the CIA. The immigration and minimum wage stuff is just smoke to hide a failed attempt to infiltrate the Indian embassy.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 18 Dec 2013 21:19

Devyani Khobragade arrest row: India accuses US of immigration fraud

...
The Delhi High Court, in the same month, passed an injunction against the domestic help; all this, officials say, was shared with the American Embassy. But they claim the US never responded.

Interestingly, Ms Richard's father-in-law works at the US embassy in Delhi.

....

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 Dec 2013 21:20

they could have taken her away and the matter ended there like any absconding maid. but taking her family away also, means she extracted something valuable.

since when did the agency become so caring about its failed agents.....

skaranam · Post by **skaranam** » 18 Dec 2013 21:20

krishnan wrote:
So Sangita Richard's in-laws work in the US embassy. And her husband and kids were Fedex-ed to the US, while her visa status was dubious!!!
that means her husband is a US citizen ????

If that was the case, why was the maid asking for a normal indian passport?

vic · Post by **vic** » 18 Dec 2013 21:22

Almost all houses were US staff lives in India have illegal construction, why can't we charge them and do search and sealing of these properties. Lot of these staff is rumoured to be involved in prostitution and soft drugs which carries severe punishments in Indian Law. And what about US sailers hiring prostitutes when their Ships dock in India on pretext of R&R

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 18 Dec 2013 21:24

Singha wrote:they could have taken her away and the matter ended there like any absconding maid. but taking her family away also, means she extracted something valuable.

since when did the agency become so caring about its failed agents.....

Well if the maid had been exposed as being a US spy, it would be in US interests to remove her family from action. In fact, I'm pretty sure her parents are also in the US now, maybe even the husband's family.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 Dec 2013 21:24

all depends on mountbatten singh and kursheed sir who thundered today in parlament "I shall not let you down!"
whether he meant indians or usa by "you" is uncertain though.

a more 'hawkish' character like PC would have been better.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 18 Dec 2013 21:30

Spoken with a Christian on train few days back. Unimaginable hate towards Modi. Gujarati burn their vans it seems. ej actions very clear here. First recovery of a spy. Attack lady to divert attention. Further diversion on Army Chief awards. Testing the real support and capabilities of brown sipays.

All kinds of games now being played. Kerry and his anti India gang is in full control. India should seriously evaluate it's relations with US and drastically increase defence preparedness.

Buddha need to smile again and Surya should raise from east and set on west.

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 18 Dec 2013 21:32

krishnan wrote:
So Sangita Richard's in-laws work in the US embassy. And her husband and kids were Fedex-ed to the US, while her visa status was dubious!!!
that means her husband is a US citizen ????

Why would he be a US citizen if his parents work in the US embassy? AFAIK, one qualifies for GC if they work in US embassy for a certain amount of time.

vic · Post by **vic** » 18 Dec 2013 21:33

Sallu will walk from his office to US embassy on his knees carrying love letter from the waitress.

habal · Post by **habal** » 18 Dec 2013 21:37

Victor wrote:Could be the Christian maid approached the Dalit Devyani on behalf of CIA to become a mole but when that backfired, she was taken away by the CIA. The immigration and minimum wage stuff is just smoke to hide a failed attempt to infiltrate the Indian embassy.

this should be what really happened.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 18 Dec 2013 21:41

Reading this thread, I understood what MUTU means. Amazing.

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 18 Dec 2013 21:44

It is really stupid how the IFS is handling its house help requirements, specially in western countries. Why can't they have a dedicated cadre, vetted and trained by the Indian government and paid Indian salaries? They would be diplomatic staff just like the diplomats themselves. A sarkari job just like the office peon or chaprasi. When diplomats are forced to find their own help, they are open to all kinds of problems.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Dec 2013 21:47

Pratyush,
Watch out lest you be termed Conspiracy Theorist!!!

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 18 Dec 2013 21:47

Singha wrote:they could have taken her away and the matter ended there like any absconding maid. but taking her family away also, means she extracted something valuable.
since when did the agency become so caring about its failed agents.....

Only if it may compromise an operation in progress and a CIA employee/Team is on field in a foreign nation.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 Dec 2013 21:47

that is being fixed now. new measures are afoot to ensure these help going abroad are employed as govt servants etc..so people are not forced to sign individual contracts I think. they would be employed and paid by consulate probably with due deductions from diplomat salary. this will be applied to many consulates in many nations.

will close this backdoor which groomed spiders can use to crawl in.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 Dec 2013 21:52

in facebook a section of spineless NRI indians mainly comprising of ladies are busy berating and blaming the diplomat for "mistreating" and 'exploiting' the maid.
perhaps they feel insecure of their own continued soft existence there. oh what to do without running hot water and paper towels.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 18 Dec 2013 21:53

Time to test TNW in the secondary test site. Operation: Budha ROFLMAO!!

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 18 Dec 2013 21:53

Altair wrote:
Singha wrote:they could have taken her away and the matter ended there like any absconding maid. but taking her family away also, means she extracted something valuable.
since when did the agency become so caring about its failed agents.....
Only if it may compromise an operation in progress and a CIA employee/Team is on field in a foreign nation.

Exactly. Unless something is ongoing, I don't see why the maid and her entire family would be taken care of(It seems they were waiting for the husband to reach amirkhan before they took action against the diplomat). So, securing the husband was given a priority and obviously, this diplomat was somehow an hurdle in achieving whatever mission they had planned. Now, that diplomat has been removed from that position(it seems she is now a diplomat to UN).

While, trying to hire her may have been attempted, I don't see why they would blow a failed attempt out of proportion by giving it so much publicity. So, there is definitely something else.

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 18 Dec 2013 21:55

Even foreign embassies should only be allowed to employ Indians who have gone through proper screening and vetting by GoI with all background known and all escape routes in control. We'd be naive to assume that any local our embassies employ abroad are not similarly "trained". It is GoI's duty to make sure we do everything to protect ourselves.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 18 Dec 2013 21:55

ramana wrote:Pratyush,
Watch out lest you be termed Conspiracy Theorist!!!

An Indian was raped in the US and some on this thread seek justification in US laws. I become a Ct walla.

symontk · Post by **symontk** » 18 Dec 2013 21:56

few folks asked about how the maid travelled to US when there was a Delhi high court order

they do not need a US visa, a US passport will do. That can bypass the immigration

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 18 Dec 2013 21:58

There was a case in the 1970s where an Indian couple living in New York were murdered (yes, murdered) by their domestic help. The domestic help was acquitted by an American jury because he claimed persecution, underpayment, abuse and what not. He had converted to a certain religion (whose functionaries provided him with all the legal help he could want). After his acquittal, he married an American and continued to live there.

So this isn't exactly an old story.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 18 Dec 2013 21:59

Well, interesting to see how the cookie crumbles -

Check this out:

http://zeenews.india.com/news/nation/in ... 97616.html

8:15 pm: Was US govt aware of whereabouts of Khobragade's maid?

Even though the US government feigned ignorance, it may have been aware about the whereabouts of Sangeeta Richard, the maid of Indian Deputy Consul General in New York Devyani Khobragade who is at the centre of a diplomatic row.

Indicative of this is that Sangeeta's father-in-law is believed to be working in the US Embassy here. (The father of the diplomat also said so in an interview to NDTV before the news item became public.)

Sources said the mother-in-law of the maid was also known to the American government as she had worked with a senior diplomat of the US Embassy here. (This can be the smoking gun - senior US diplomat who could have been pulling the strings in USA and who could have directed the whole affair. He would know exactly where to strike and when to strike. And it is no wonder the husband and child got easy Visa to USA in spite of the court matter in India against the maid.)

Besides these, Sangeeta's husband Philip, a driver with Mozambique Embassy here, was given visa to travel to the US easily and quickly.

Indian government wonders whether all the requirements for grant of visa to him were fulfilled, particularly those related to adequate salary and financial deposits in his bank account. - PTI

As per the father of the diplomat, after the maid bolted, they received call from an attorney who did not identify himself, offering to settle the case out of court. Prior to this, the maid had asked for USD 10,000 and normal Visa for herself and her family. Which the family refused because of the official status of her Visa.

Long story short - The maid and her family knew exactly what they were doing from day one; from filing of the form to asking for USD 10K to bolting and meeting up with an attorney in NY.

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 18 Dec 2013 22:01

symontk wrote: they do not need a US visa, a US passport will do. That can bypass the immigration

It may bypass immigration but it will not withstand legal scrutiny in US. They took her and family on T visa. This thing was properly planned many months in advance.

A T visa is a type of visa allowing certain victims of human trafficking and immediate family members to remain and work temporarily in the United States if they agree to assist law enforcement in testifying against the perpetrators.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Dec 2013 22:04

Most likely the moves were afoot when the miad's family was arrested in India for that seems like an extreme step to take for an absconding maid. Maybe the handlers gots spooked that their agent was unmasked and hence took steps to extricate the whole fmaily. Most likely the maid is the tip of th eiceberg of a big intel operation in India.

RAW and IB should introspect on their own roles or lack of them.

MEA should think about vetting and providing domestic help as this is becoming a major issue for the image.

For starters how was the maid first hired? What were her references?

Her family working in US Embassy should have raised a red flag with any IB chota official.

Best kick to US would be for Sonia Gandhi to replace MMS ahead of the elections.

----
Pratyush you didnt see the "!!!"

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 18 Dec 2013 22:05

CIA protocols are very specific and the priority order for constraints is also very clear. Mission comes first. Clearly there is an ongoing operation and hence the clockwork precision in execution. This is not just a case of standard intel gathering exercise. The ruthlessness in execution is hinting muscle power on standby incase things dont go as planned. There is a clear mission objective.

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 18 Dec 2013 22:08

All diplomatic house help should be immediately sent back to India and de-briefed. They can be replaced by trained help which can be done fairly quickly. Sure it will cause temporary problems but this is no ordinary situation.