India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 19 Dec 2013 08:00

>> This is why BBC and CNN should be banned from India.

I would agree they have nothing to offer except psyops and trash. al-jazeera somehow produces far more interesting pgms imo.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 19 Dec 2013 08:11

talking about al-jaz , SS was on it last night

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 19 Dec 2013 08:16

How about ceasing and desisting with the telegraphic style. Or is there a deep and mysterious reason, other than laziness?

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 19 Dec 2013 08:25

I am curious now Sanjay garu, is that directed at me?

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 19 Dec 2013 08:28

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 19 Dec 2013 08:33

OT: looking up telegraphic style... interesting

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 19 Dec 2013 08:34

LokeshC wrote:chankyaa saar:

Surprisingly, this is the case with most black communities. They are culturally completely distinct from the white ones (I have lived in the midst of both). The blacks you see on TV in the US are usually the ones that are severely critical of other blacks i.e. "House Slaves". Rarely do you see airtime given to a black person criticizing the white society for what it is.

The "House Slaves" are culturally different from the average black they are like an Oreo biscuit, black on the outside but white on inside and are filled with self hate. The average white joe does not know this, and does not have the IQ or the patience to put two and two together and see through it, so he believes it and becomes critical of black folks himself and cite or repeat the words of the "House Slave" that he saw on TV.

Exact same algorithm is used by Al-BBC ch()()thiyas and the US media against "brown savage pagan" Indians. They chose one misguided Gungadeen to talk about some random savage act of the week that happened in India and make them the eggspurt on ishooes and then use that to mercilessly beat us down on whatever the real issue is.

Once you see through it, you can identify who is a gungadeen and who is not. Until you do that its a confusing ordeal, because you see a person who looks like you talks like you being severely critical of your identity. You have two choices at that point, you can reject that person and his/her views or accept them and start hating yourself. Since BBC/CNN are "trusted" media sources in India most TV watching elites chose the latter, thus becoming the next generation cannon fodder for BBC/CNN.

This is why BBC and CNN should be banned from India.

EDIT:
On this topic the pisko book that is written by an authority figure is the following: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Skin,_White_Masks

OT: Africa has produced far more post-colonial thinkers than India has. I keep wondering why. How did we become such willing Gungadeens (I too was one at a point of time).

i really need to read more when i get time. can you point me to some good african literature saar?

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 19 Dec 2013 08:35

Why did curry express regret?

I mean US keeps insisting absolute care was take during the diplomats arrest and detention and all courtesies due her was extended.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 19 Dec 2013 08:36

Singha wrote:>> This is why BBC and CNN should be banned from India.

I would agree they have nothing to offer except psyops and trash. al-jazeera somehow produces far more interesting pgms imo.

include NDTV and CNN-IBN and you have a deal.

In rags, i'd like both nytimes and economist banned.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 19 Dec 2013 08:43

LokeshC wrote:chankyaa saar:

OT: Africa has produced far more post-colonial thinkers than India has. I keep wondering why. How did we become such willing Gungadeens (I too was one at a point of time).

Gungadeen days are long gone, India now suffering from GoongaSingh factor for a decade.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 19 Dec 2013 08:43

Preet Bharara is proving himself quite the useful public servant. time after time, he goes after Indians in prominent positions. does he have family in India? does he visit India? even if he does have family, does he care?

a_bharat · Post by **a_bharat** » 19 Dec 2013 08:44

I think phrases like "House Nigger" should be brought into widespread use to quickly put such idiots in their place. Though it is probably politically incorrect, this phrase does pack a punch and is an effective tool.

Last night on Arnab's show Kanwal Sibal used "More American Than American" to describe people like Preet Bharara and there was some London based HN who intended to pontificate on desi-servant culture but was disarmed quickly. Sehadri Chari of BJP was more straight forward and simply said "I don't want to respond to stupid arguments and don't waste your and my time".

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 19 Dec 2013 08:49

Karan M saar:

1) Albert Memmi: The colonizer and the colonized. The interesting thing about Albert is that he was a Tunisian version of an Indian DIE who figured out the psychological cost of colonialism and themed his work around it. Here is a decent article on the identity issues he himself faced: http://www.u.arizona.edu/~shaked/Tunisia/ch11.pdf

2) Frantz Fanon. He is a difficult read, very Salman Rushdie-ish. The best known work is "The Wretched of the earth", you can get the latest one and ignore the 500 page foreword by Homi Bhaba (not *that* Homi Bhabha but an English Prof).

3)Edward Said (He is part Arabic, but still is north African technically).

These three guys spawned off a lot of thought and churn in post colonial thought. There are a few Indians (communists) who followed, but they all lost their way without much repute or success.

There are "successful" Indians in western universities writing under the garb of "post colonialism" but they are nothing more than "House Slaves". Rajiv Malhotra constantly keeps exposing and debating with them. The most so called "communist post-mordern" profs of Indian origin in the US are frauds that belong to these category.

Until today there isn't one Indian writer who is popular for taking a stand against west and communism for the harm that they have brought on the rest of the world.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 19 Dec 2013 08:57

Pankajs the full text is there in previous page. Its ambigous as to what he is expressing regret to.
One way it appears his regret is for Indian action wgich we know u s about cancelling liquoe permits.
The barricades removal was announced now but its for another action.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 19 Dec 2013 09:01

let's not overdo the "House N*****" thing. it looses its shock value if there is a mention in every line or every post. it must exercise with precision. targets should be carefully picked, so that it doesn't get blunted.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 19 Dec 2013 09:06

US Attorney says diplomat Devyani was not handcuffed or mistreated

New Delhi: Hours after US Secretary of State John Kerry finally expressed regret over the treatment meted out to Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade, the US Attorney prosecuting the case, Preet Bharara, has denied claims that she was mistreated. In a statement issued, he has said that she was not arrested in public and that she was not handcuffed.
Bharara, in fact, said that Devyani was accorded courtesies that are generally not given to most Americans. Bharara went to the extent of saying that she was even allowed to make personal phone calls before she was arrested and the arresting officers even offered to get her refreshments.

So somebody is lieing here, who?

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 19 Dec 2013 09:13

there is another issue here, too. if this goes through, she's looking at 10 years in jail. the mistreatment, especially, the cavity search and institutional rape, are the immediate concern. the other issue is if she does get 10 years, there is absolutely no way that this can go un-answered. she needs to be given full immunity and all charges dismissed. or otherwise, we will have sit and done nothing while Devyani gets 10 years in a foreign prison. it is unacceptable.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 19 Dec 2013 09:15

devesh wrote:let's not overdo the "House N*****" thing. it looses its shock value if there is a mention in every line or every post. it must exercise with precision. targets should be carefully picked, so that it doesn't get blunted.

I agree with that. Esp the word N****r in the US has a humongous historical baggage, and should not be used by anyone other than blacks. "House Slave" is a much better term and the one that I usually use.

Its also off-putting and might throw a tangent into a debate on the politically correct nature of that term.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 19 Dec 2013 09:23

devesh wrote:there is another issue here, too. if this goes through, she's looking at 10 years in jail. the mistreatment, especially, the cavity search and institutional rape, are the immediate concern. the other issue is if she does get 10 years, there is absolutely no way that this can go un-answered. she needs to be given full immunity and all charges dismissed. or otherwise, we will have sit and done nothing while Devyani gets 10 years in a foreign prison. it is unacceptable.

I think the US SD will just approve her diplomatic immunity credentials for UN, and that will be the end of it.

Najunamar · Post by **Najunamar** » 19 Dec 2013 09:27

Not so sure about that Putnanjaji - If they were willing to go down they would have done it a while ago, aim seems to be to provoke people/poke India and see how much they can get away with. I am sure, there is some more calculations to further provoke India as long as there is no strong reaction from India - they will try to escalate as much.

member_22872 · Post by **member_22872** » 19 Dec 2013 09:28

So somebody is lieing here

Diplomat "broke down" during strip search

From above:

The U.S. Marshals Service (USMS), the detainment authority in the case of the senior Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade (39) arrested in New York last Thursday, confirmed that the Deputy Consul General had been strip-searched and directed media to their prisoner operations

Under the USMS guidelines, being a pre-trial detainee or in line with the security level of the prison where she was held, she was “fully restrained”, which meant “handcuffs, waist chains, and leg irons (shackles)”, were used on her.

In terms of whether she was accorded any different treatment to the general prisoner population, the USMS said in an emailed statement, that she was “was subject to the same search procedures as other USMS arrestees in accordance with USMS Policy Directives and Protocols”.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 19 Dec 2013 09:31

Looks like virtually suspect is searched in their body cavities. Considering this happens only in USA- the criminals are bloody intelligent to put stuff in there or the police are @#$%.

Whatever the Americans do-- at least we in India can make a policy specifically for cavity searches only for Americans in India as it is approved by American supreme court. Us gov will be mighty pleased as Americans more than equal to India in India itself.

member_22872 · Post by **member_22872** » 19 Dec 2013 09:37

Also from here:
Detention procedures applicable to Khobragade, US clarifies

the U.S. Marshals Service (USMS), the “police” of the Department of Justice (DoJ) answered multiple media queries confirming that she had been “strip-searched.”

While it was also clear that she had been handcuffed, the USMS however shied away from providing further details surrounding the conditions of her detention between around 9.10am and 4pm that day, saying only that she was “was subject to the same search procedures as other USMS arrestees in accordance with USMS Policy Directives and Protocols.”

According to the body searches protocols, there are four types of searches that the USMS is authorised to conduct: pat-down search, in-custody search, strip-search and digital cavity search. Of these the USMS and other sources have indicated that the strip-search was performed on Ms. Khobragade.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 19 Dec 2013 09:48

ramana wrote:Pankajs the full text is there in previous page. Its ambigous as to what he is expressing regret to.
One way it appears his regret is for Indian action wgich we know u s about cancelling liquoe permits.
The barricades removal was announced now but its for another action.

That's the impression I get too. He expresses regret but the lady is evasive when asked what was the regret about. Seems like curry does not regret what happened in US but the reaction the US action generated in India.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 19 Dec 2013 09:51

A pretty exhaustive list of events leading up to the arrest of DK -
Decoding the Khobragade controversy: How a row over a maid's visa sparked a full-scale diplomatic incident

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 19 Dec 2013 09:53

putnanja wrote:I think the US SD will just approve her diplomatic immunity credentials for UN, and that will be the end of it.

That is the path of least resistance and will allow each country to call it off without conceding too much to the other side.

Question is if Modi is going to let such an opportunity slip away in an election year without an apology. Remember it the congress that sort of promised an apology.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 19 Dec 2013 10:02

Karan M wrote:In rags, i'd like both nytimes and economist banned.

WSJ is good though. Noam Chomsky likes it

Sumeet · Post by **Sumeet** » 19 Dec 2013 10:02

http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/17/politics/ ... ?hpt=hp_t2

Went through some comments from the top, seems reasonable to me except for a few.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 19 Dec 2013 10:04

^
What Preet Bharara is saying that she was not handcuffed at the time of her arrest, nor was she arrested in full view of the public, something the Indian press seems to have been claiming.

Also it seems Hindu is drawing its own conclusions when USMS, as per the report "shied away from providing further details surrounding the conditions of her detention between around 9.10am and 4pm that day"

I am expecting Hindu to publish more "clarification" in the matter.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 19 Dec 2013 10:07

devesh wrote:there is another issue here, too. if this goes through, she's looking at 10 years in jail. the mistreatment, especially, the cavity search and institutional rape, are the immediate concern. the other issue is if she does get 10 years, there is absolutely no way that this can go un-answered. she needs to be given full immunity and all charges dismissed. or otherwise, we will have sit and done nothing while Devyani gets 10 years in a foreign prison. it is unacceptable.

As per an NPR report, it is more like 15 years. Hope Dr. Khobragade is repatriated to India ASAP.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 19 Dec 2013 10:07

pankajs wrote:
ramana wrote:Pankajs the full text is there in previous page. Its ambigous as to what he is expressing regret to.
One way it appears his regret is for Indian action wgich we know u s about cancelling liquoe permits.
The barricades removal was announced now but its for another action.
That's the impression I get too. He expresses regret but the lady is evasive when asked what was the regret about. Seems like curry does not regret what happened in US but the reaction the US action generated in India.

the language of that statement is positively convoluted, almost deliberately so.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 19 Dec 2013 10:08

venug wrote:
While it was also clear that she had been handcuffed, the USMS however shied away from providing further details surrounding the conditions of her detention between around 9.10am and 4pm that day, saying only that she was “was subject to the same search procedures as other USMS arrestees in accordance with USMS Policy Directives and Protocols.”

Full text of statement by Manhattan US Attorney Preet Bharara on Devyani Khobragade

The agents arrested her in the most discreet way possible, and unlike most defendants, she was not then handcuffed or restrained.

Bharara claims she was not handcuffed where as USMS confirm she has been handcuffed. Who is lying?

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 19 Dec 2013 10:09

Najunamar wrote:Not so sure about that Putnanjaji - If they were willing to go down they would have done it a while ago, aim seems to be to provoke people/poke India and see how much they can get away with. I am sure, there is some more calculations to further provoke India as long as there is no strong reaction from India - they will try to escalate as much.

What are the gains to US?

Najunamar · Post by **Najunamar** » 19 Dec 2013 10:10

Perhaps no gain visible, but reaction is being monitored? Otherwise even this level of escalation is absurd with no returns being evident no?

member_22872 · Post by **member_22872** » 19 Dec 2013 10:11

I thought so too that Hindu is adding its own version hence I searched again. I dont know about when she was handcuffed but it appears USMS seems to have acknowledged in the email that she was handcuffed and stripped at some point.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 19 Dec 2013 10:13

Rahul M wrote:the language of that statement is positively convoluted, almost deliberately so.

Exactly and that is why the statement needs to be clear what the regret or apology or whatever is about. It would be a disgrace to let such statement stand.

Also if a clear apology is not forthcoming, a similar "standard procedure" should be followed for at least one US lady consular officer to confirm out willingness and ability to follow due process of law.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 19 Dec 2013 10:16

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahome/in ... ident.html

Posting in full:

The Devyani Khobragade controversy is not just about the provocative arrest of a senior Indian diplomat. Highly-placed sources have told Mail Today that Sangeeta Richard, the maid at the centre of the controversy, was previously employed by a senior US diplomat.

Another intriguing part of the unfolding story is that a visa was issued to the Richard family - Sangeeta's husband Philip and their two children - and they left the country by an Air India flight on December 10, even as New Delhi was engaging with Washington on the issue.

A Mail Today investigation has revealed how the saga unfolded, with the Indian Deputy Consul General finding it difficult even to lodge a missing person's report for Sangeeta Richard with the New York Police Department (NYPD), and how the US ignored India's plea for action against Richard and instead piled pressure on India.

Mail Today has accessed official documents to weave the story together. This is how it all went down:

NOVEMBER 2012: Sangeeta Richard enters the United States with Deputy Consul General Devyani Khobragade.

JUNE 23, 2013: Richard goes missing. In Delhi, her husband says he has no idea where she is. Richard had some days earlier sought Khobragade's permission to take up another part-time job in New York; it was denied.

JUNE 24, 2013: Office of Foreign Missions (OFM) in New York informed, and its help requested in tracing Richard. An intriguing part of the story is how difficult it became for Khobragade to file a Missing Persons Report with the NYPD. It was on the advice of the OFM, Khobragade went to file a missing person report at the police precinct concerned, but was told that she could not since Richard was an adult, and that such a report could only be lodged by a member of her family. When Mr Richard, Sangeeta's husband, was contacted, he refused to file a Missing Person Report, indicating his awareness of something being amiss

JUNE 25, 2013: Unable to file a report, Devyani sends a letter to the police precinct concerned, requesting them to file a missing person report and trace Richard. Sustained efforts resulted in the NYPD seeking inspection of Khobragade's residence.
As diplomatic premises are out of bounds for local law enforcement agencies, Khobragade was interviewed in front of the Permanent Mission of India, her residence, and a missing person report filed by the NYPD.

JULY 1, 2013: A woman claiming to be the Richard's lawyer calls Khobragade to tell her that Sangeeta would not go to court only if, one, the Indian diplomat signs a 566 form authorising the maid to terminate her employment, and, two, change her visa status from government visa to normal visa, and, three, be compensated for 19 hours of work per day.

Khobragade refuses to negotiate on the phone, insisting that the caller first identify herself. She claims the caller hung up.

JULY 2, 2013: Khobragade informs the OFM about these developments in writing, seeking NYPD support in ascertaining the identity of the caller and her links with Richard, and claiming the conversations clearly indicate that the runaway maid has no intention of returning to India and seems keen to extort money by making false accusations. No action is taken.

Khobragade files a written complaint with the Delhi Police against Sangeeta Richard and her husband Philip Richard, accusing them of cheating under Section 420 of the Indian Penal Code, and asking the police to begin proceedings against them and recover the maid's official passport.

JULY 5, 2013: Khobragade files complaint of "aggravated harassment" with respect to the phone call received on July 1 for extortion and blackmail. No action taken by NYPD. Michael Phillips, Director (Human Resources) at the US embassy in New Delhi, is called by senior MEA official and briefed about missing maid, reports filed with the US State Department and NYPD, and the FIR filed in India against Sangeeta Richard.

The assistance of the State Department and US Embassy is sought in locating the maid and sending her back to India to pre-empt this being used as an immigration channel. The US Embassy conveys its understanding and promises to follow-up with the State Department and local authorities. No feedback is received India's requests, however.

Similar requests were made by the Indian Embassy in Washington D.C. to the State Department in Washington D.C. Lack of cooperation by Philip Richard prompts Ministry of External Affairs (MEA) to advise Khobragade on filing a First Information Report in Delhi against the Richard family for wilful deceit and attempt to cheat to illegally immigrate to the US by wrongful means. Based on the MEA's advice, Khobragade also files for an anticipatory anti-suit injunction in the Delhi High Court so as to prevent filing of any case in the US by Richard to avoid ensuing litigation in the US.

JULY 8, 2013: Khobragade is called to 'Access Immigration', an immigration lawyer's office, to discuss terms of settlement with Richard. Accompanied by the consulate officers, Khobragade meets Richard who seeks payment of $10,000 and the granting of an ordinary Indian passport, along with whatever immigration relief is required to stay on in the US on that ordinary passport.

Consulate officials tell Richard that she cannot remain in the US under any circumstances without legal authorisation, and that she should return to India as per her contract with Khobragade. Richard is told that any argument over salary or working hours could be settled in the consulate before her return to India. Richard refuses, saying that she wants to remain in the US.

Khobragade complains to the NYPD about the demands, but there is no response. Richard's passport is revoked and notice for termination of her personal identity also given to OFM with effect from June 22, 2013. Richard is now staying illegally in the US. A felony / theft complaint is filed with the NYPD against Richard by Khobragade's husband, reporting theft of cash, Blackberry phone, two SIM cards, a metro card (valued at $113) and documents such as contracts, signed receipt book-cum-working hour log. No action is taken.

JULY 15 & 19, 2013: Philip Richard filed a writ petition against Khobragade and the Union of India, alleging that his wife Sangeeta Richard was in police custody in New York since July 8, 2013, charging the Indian diplomat with "slave labour" and illegally making Sangeeta sign a 'second contract' with far less pay and perks. The Union of India is accused of not paying according to the requirements of the local law. Richard withdraws his writ petition four days later.

JULY 30, 2013: A copy of Philip Richard's writ petition is forwarded to OFM, which states that Sangeeta is in police custody in New York, for producing the maid at the Consulate so she can be repatriated to India as requested by her husband in his writ petition. Consul General is also informed that Richard was last seen at the office of Access Immigration on July 8, 2013. No action taken by the US.

SEPTEMBER 4, 2013: The US State Department issues a one-sided letter to the Indian Ambassador, projecting the allegations of the maid which are of "considerable concern", and asking for the allegations to be probed. It also seeks a voluntary meeting between Khobragade and the Bureau of Diplomatic Security in the State Department as well as proof of payment of minimum wages from the embassy.

SEPTEMBER 10, 2013: In Delhi, MEA calls US officials and strongly protests against the tone and content of the letter.

SEPTEMBER 20, 2013: Delhi High Court issues an ex-parte ad interim injunction against Philip and Sangeeta Richard, restraining them from initiating any legal action or proceedings against Khobragade in any Court / Tribunal / Forum outside India with regard to her employment. The final hearing in the matter is scheduled December 13, 2013.

SEPTEMBER 21, 2013: A reply is sent to the State Department by the Indian Embassy in Washington, rebutting the allegations and bringing out the facts of the case while highlighting the fact that Sangeeta Richard is seeking monetary settlement and a US visa, thereby seeking to subvert both Indian and US laws. The letter also emphasises that the matter is an issue between the Government of India and one of its employees and is not subject to US regulation or adjudication. Assistance of the State Department is sought in locating and repatriating Sangeeta Richard to India.

NOVEMBER 19, 2013: Metropolitan Magistrate of South District, New Delhi, issues a non-bailable arrest warrant against Sangeeta Richard.

DECEMBER 6, 2013: The arrest warrant issued by the Delhi Metropolitan court is forwarded to the US State Department and the US Embassy in New Delhi, requesting them to instruct the relevant authorities in the US to arrest and repatriate Sangeeta Richard to India through the Consulate in New York, so that due process of law may be prosecuted in India. No action is taken by the US.

DECEMBER 12, 2013: Khobragade arrested on the basis of a Second District court warrant for visa fraud as she drops her daughter to
school in New York. Immunity is denied under the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations (VCCR) for this "felony charge" Bail posted at $250,000, Khobragade's passport is seized, and she is asked not to leave the country or seek another travel document though she can travel within the US after notifying authorities. She is been not to be in touch with Sangeeta Richard.

JANUARY 13, 2014: Next date of hearing is announced, but Khobragade's attorney claims he is not free that day and is negotiating another date, which will be known in due course. Pre-trial process commenced on December 16, 2013 where a urine sample was taken by US authorities for drugs testing.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 19 Dec 2013 10:23

man, this has shown the true reality of khans behaviour full time.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 19 Dec 2013 10:24

I do not trust Chaddi TV but here it is ..

Devyani Khobragade arrest row: US looking for positive outcome, say sources

New Delhi/New York: In phone calls to Indian officials, the United States has expressed regret over the handling of the arrest of diplomat Devyani Khobragade, who was handcuffed and strip searched in New York last week. Sources said US has told India that they are looking for a positive outcome to the row over the diplomat's arrest and that "it should not have happened and will not happen again."

saumitra_j · Post by **saumitra_j** » 19 Dec 2013 10:42

As has been previously said, MMS has truly destroyed the country in many ways. The good thing is that now an IFS officer has received the treatment, this will stay long in the institutional memory. It is clearly a case of espionage and it will affect bilateral relations, what ever be the eventual outcome of this episode. In the long run, US SD has shot itself in the foot as they will loose what ever leverage they had with the Indians and they can might as well forget about the big market that is up for grabs in the next two decades. The good thing in all this is that to most Indians who think about the "American Dream", this is a good reality check that America is not just a land of milk and honey, it is also a land of official stripping and cavity searches - which in our law is considered rape.