India-US Strategic News and Discussion

munna · Post by **munna** » 19 Dec 2013 10:51

saumitra_j wrote:It is also a land of official stripping and cavity searches - which in our law is considered rape.

Some overzealous Sancho Panza in the administration has managed to associate and identify the US in India with these two words overnight. Congratulations to Binita, Preet, MUTUs and last but not the least the person who gave a go ahead to this quixotic venture. Brilliant I say!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 19 Dec 2013 10:52

how can you seek positive outcome when all your actions are negative fr many chronological accounts?

Anand K · Post by **Anand K** » 19 Dec 2013 10:55

Time for CT#344:
Sangeetha Richards was a CIA/NSA/DIA/NRO/NSIA/XYZ plant and this whole thing was an extrication + revenge mission.

Watch out for new bestseller "The Brahmins of the Red Fort" and the new Hollywood thriller "Powercut from Zero Thirty" featuring the great escape.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 19 Dec 2013 10:58

is 'cursed' for real ?

rgsrini · Post by **rgsrini** » 19 Dec 2013 10:59

^^Positive outcome expectation is because of their supreme confidence that Indians are gullible, desperate for "friendship" with the US, and fall for words such as "strategic partners", "defining relationship of 21st century" and are filled with sellouts, if not MUTUs.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 19 Dec 2013 11:02

Some folks never learn .. Should have immediately added him to the list of folks who deserve the "standard procedure" treatment if he ever lands in India.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 19 Dec 2013 11:03

There is a screw up from all sides here... US SD, Indian Kangrez gov, Devyani's illegal documents, and possibly the criminals who are still hiding... always escape without hurt in such matters.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 19 Dec 2013 11:07

Devyani Khobragade case: US appears to speak in two voices

New Delhi/New York: US Secretary of State John Kerry has expressed regret over the handling of the arrest of the Indian diplomat, in a phone call to India's National Security Advisor Shivshankar Menon.

<snip>

But a few hours later, the prosecutor, US Attorney Preet Bharara, strongly defended his action saying, "Ms. Khobragade was accorded courtesies well beyond what other defendants." In a highly unusual move for a federal prosecutor, he said in a lengthy statement that the Indian diplomat was "even given coffee" and allowed phone calls during her detention.

<snip>

Mr Bharara has alleged that there has been "misinformation and factual inaccuracy" in reporting on the Khobragade case which is "creating an inflammatory atmosphere."

NDTV has learnt that Ms. Khobragade was handcuffed at the Federal Court.

We should constantly keep asking who is lying USMS or the US prosecutor.

a_bharat · Post by **a_bharat** » 19 Dec 2013 11:11

^^^
They simply split the job between the two: the DA probably isn't technically lying when he says that Devyani wasn't handcuffed (by his folks) -- the USMS might have.

shyam · Post by **shyam** » 19 Dec 2013 11:13

ramana wrote:how can you seek positive outcome when all your actions are negative fr many chronological accounts?

Possible positive outcome is, India recall DK and US deport Richard family to India. Let people who created the mess clean them up.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 19 Dec 2013 11:13

SaiK saar,

Please read the detailed timestamped version of the events and how they unfolded (by none other than dailyfail). The link is posted above.

Devayani followed standard procedures (with blessings from US State Dept). Maid had other ideas, ran away and found immigration attorney who thought he could get DK to compromise. When DK did not, they came up with the Visa fraud complaint and approached the NYPD, NYPD approached NYDA (Preet). Preet issued a warrant (of course magically after the family had managed to flee India).

How did you conclude that Devayani had "illegal documents"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BTW, US is searching for plausible deniability. They might want to get an "alford plea" from DK and then call the matter solved.

Meanwhile, I do hope that everyone involved in this case on the US side be declared persona-non-grata in India in any role (including tourist).

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 19 Dec 2013 11:17

pankajs wrote:I do not trust Chaddi TV but here it is ..

Devyani Khobragade arrest row: US looking for positive outcome, say sources
New Delhi/New York: In phone calls to Indian officials, the United States has expressed regret over the handling of the arrest of diplomat Devyani Khobragade, who was handcuffed and strip searched in New York last week. Sources said US has told India that they are looking for a positive outcome to the row over the diplomat's arrest and that "it should not have happened and will not happen again."

First of all, the US outlook for 'positive outcome' differs significantly from the Indian outlook. The US is simply looking for India to 'understand' its laws and not make a hue and cry and dance about this issue which should not cloud the 'larger picture'. So, let us not be done in by such superficial US mumbo-jumbo.

That apart, the US has not expressed any regret at all if one read the Kerry statement. It is like the 'regret' that the US expressed to TSP. The Americans are masters in this even when their feet are held to the fire. So, only an enormous pressure from India could elicit that kind of true regret. This may not happen for various reasons. The 'it should not have happened and it will not happen in the future' are to be taken with a bucketful of salt.

These are all with respect to what the Americans call euphemistically as 'intake procedures', not the true import of the case on hand. Let us be clear of this distinction.

Unless India launches a well-conceived tit for tat operation against a US consular officer, this issue is *not* going to be resolved to India's satisfaction at all.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 19 Dec 2013 11:18

a_bharat wrote:^^^
They simply split the job between the two: the DA probably isn't technically lying when he says that Devyani wasn't handcuffed (by his folks) -- the USMS might have.

I do understand that but let them defend and explain that technicality. My guess is that in a public spat like this technicalities become blurred and the is why curry expressed such vague "regret".

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 19 Dec 2013 11:21

SSridhar wrote:Unless India launches a well-conceived tit for tat operation against a US consular officer, this issue is *not* going to be resolved to India's satisfaction at all.

Agree. My hope is that India is not deceived by a promise after all promises are meant to be broken ..

rgsrini · Post by **rgsrini** » 19 Dec 2013 11:27

SSji.
I think Indian government is waiting for US to provide a way out for DK. If they don't do that, then they may unroll a tit-for-tat action. IMO it is stupid because, if DK gets released as planned, the US would have learnt nothing. The US officials will have no fear of retaliation in case of recurrence. They will be confident, that they can continue to play the same game of punitive and humiliating treatment/arrest, followed by "working hard and doing a favor" by releasing the diplomats to make it all right.

Unless the IFS forces this government's hand, I don't expect to see a tit-for-tat retaliation at all. All will go back to good when DK reaches home.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 19 Dec 2013 11:29

So GoI has still not done anything serious in way of retaliation? Looks like MMS like a blinkered horse sees nothing by his Nobel goal.

The ONLY person in all of the comments made here of in any Indian or foreign media is Mr. Kanwal. Respect to him.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 19 Dec 2013 11:30

11.02 am: Govt must ensure Devyani comes back with dignity, says BJP Meanwhile, the BJP has stepped up pressure on the government and said the government must keep up the pressure against the United States. "Rajya Sabha has expressed their anguish and has condemned what the US has done to Devyani, who was under diplomatic immunity," BJP spokesperson Prakash Javadekar said. "Government has said charges will be dropped and will be brought back with full dignity and honour... They must now walk the talk and nothing less will be acceptable by the people."

Read more at: http://www.firstpost.com/world/devyani- ... ef_article

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 19 Dec 2013 11:31

10.32 am: US ignored charges against domestic help, says Indian embassy In a statement issued on Thursday, the Indian Embassy has said that it had written to the US State Department charging the domestic help of blackmail and illegally staying in the country but said the US ignored multiple requests'. The letter, according to a India Today report, emphasises that the matter is an issue between the Government of India and one of its employees and is not subject to US regulation or adjudication. Assistance of the State Department is sought in locating and repatriating Sangeeta Richard to India.

Read more at: http://www.firstpost.com/world/devyani- ... ef_article

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 19 Dec 2013 11:33

pankajs wrote:Some folks never learn .. Should have immediately added him to the list of folks who deserve the "standard procedure" treatment if he ever lands in India.

and Putin sir has done exactly that to bharara and some of his associates. how I wish we had a regime with some element of spine.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 19 Dec 2013 11:34

is that maid still alive ??? known US they could do anything to her

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 19 Dec 2013 11:36

Anand K wrote:Time for CT#344:
Sangeetha Richards was a CIA/NSA/DIA/NRO/NSIA/XYZ plant and this whole thing was an extrication + revenge mission.

Watch out for new bestseller "The Brahmins of the Red Fort" and the new Hollywood thriller "Powercut from Zero Thirty" featuring the great escape.

what's the point of this sh**? maybe you need to get a perspective before posting frivolous shit on a thread that is otherwise discussing a serious topic that affects you as an Indian, whether living in India or not.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 19 Dec 2013 11:38

Times Now > The maid's diary

I was treated well. Madam's family is very nice to me.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 19 Dec 2013 11:40

This is open CT season, so here is one more:

Right after Raymond Davis case in Bakistan, OBL got his 72.

Raymond Davis was also a big big diplomatic fallout, but it was nothing compared to what came next. I wonder what awaits us in this case

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 19 Dec 2013 11:47

11.54 am: US must apologise, accept fault, says Kamal Nath Union Minister Kamal Nath on Thursday said the United States must apologise for arresting diplomat Devyani Khobragade. "America must apologise and accept their fault. Only then will we be satisfied," Nath told reporters today.

Read more at: http://www.firstpost.com/world/devyani- ... ef_article

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 19 Dec 2013 11:48

pankajs wrote:Times Now > The maid's diary

I was treated well. Madam's family is very nice to me.

wow , maids got a diary too

, maybe she has a FB, google+ account as well

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 19 Dec 2013 11:50

I think we will see some more action in India before this is resolved given that US has not moved fast enough.

Anand K · Post by **Anand K** » 19 Dec 2013 12:00

devesh wrote:what's the point of this sh**? maybe you need to get a perspective before posting frivolous shit on a thread that is otherwise discussing a serious topic that affects you as an Indian, whether living in India or not.

Sorry for offending your grace, I am now enlightened that frivolity is not allowed here.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 19 Dec 2013 12:08

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/full-text-co ... 456-2.html

Important excerpt:

MARK J. SMITH, being duly sworn, deposes and says that he is a Special Agent with the United States Department of State, Diplomatic Security Service ("DSS"), and charges as follows:

C. To apply for an A-3 visa, the visa applicant must submit the following, among other items:
i. An "Employment Contract signed by both the employer and the employee which must include each of the following items:"

l . "Description of Duties. The contract must describe the work to be performed, e.g., housekeeping, gardening, child care, and also must include a statement that the domestic employee shall work only for the employer who signed the contract.

4. "The contract must state that wages will be paid to the domestic employee either weekly or biweekly. As of March 2011, the Department determined that no deductions are allowed for lodging, medical care, medical insurance, or travel . As of April 2012, deductions taken for meals are also no longer allowed."

6. Based on my interviews of an individual who, in or about the fall of 2012, was residing in India ("Witness 1") Maid - Sangeeta Richard, I know the following, in substance and in part.

a. In or about the 'fall of 2012, Witness~l met at least twice with Devyani Khobragade, the defendant, at Khobragade' s residence in India (the "Residence") in reference to Witness-1's potential employment as a domestic worker for Khobragade in New York, New York.

b. Khobragade told Witness~l that Khobragade was seeking to hire a babysitter who also could handle additional household work at her home in New York. After some discussion, Khobragade agreed to pay Witness-1 30,000 rupees per month. Khobragade stated that she would need to observe Witness-1' s work.

c . At Khobragade's request, Witness-l stayed at the Residence for a trial employment period of several days. At the conclusion of the trial employment period, Khobragade told Witness-1 to expect a call from the United States Embassy in India (the "US Embassy") .

7. Based on my interviews of the spouse of Witness-1 ("Witness-2") So, the husband was flown from India to USA and was interviewed by the US Department of Justice before the case was filed on 12th December. he was flown out on 10th, interviewed on 11th and case filed on 12th..bloody brilliant, isn't it? It is pretty obvious that some very powerful person is behind all this. What was the need for USA to whisk away maid's husband and make him a witness? DOJ could have simply relied on the interview of maid to make the case. It would require someone really well connected to create a case of surreptitiously fly maid's husband to US and provide logistical and bureaucratic help. I don't think the US Department of Justice would have such resources or even a mandate. This is US State Department written all over it. , I know the following, in substance and in part:

a. Witness-2 and Witness-1 met with Devyani Khobragade, the defendant, at the Residence in reference to WITNESS-1 s potential employment for Khobragade in New York, New York as a domestic helper. Khobragade offered to pay Witness-1 a starting salary of 25, 000 rupees per month, plus an additional 5, OOO rupees for overtime.

b. At Khobragade' s request, Witness~l stayed at the Residence for a trial employment period of several days.

Anand K · Post by **Anand K** » 19 Dec 2013 12:11

BTW, here's the organization that fronts the legal defence of Sangeetha Richards:
Safe Horizon Anti-Trafficking Program

Anybody got some meat on this?

morem · Post by **morem** » 19 Dec 2013 12:16

Anand K wrote:BTW, here's the organization that fronts the legal defence of Sangeetha Richards:
Safe Horizon Anti-Trafficking Program

Anybody got some meat on this?

SHAT programme for short

habal · Post by **habal** » 19 Dec 2013 12:17

munna wrote:
saumitra_j wrote:It is also a land of official stripping and cavity searches - which in our law is considered rape.
Some overzealous Sancho Panza in the administration has managed to associate and identify the US in India with these two words overnight. Congratulations to Binita, Preet, MUTUs and last but not the least the person who gave a go ahead to this quixotic venture. Brilliant I say!

heh heh .. you may think it's some sancho panza. But I think this is Karma, afterall this country has killed millions of innocent civilians in Iraq, Syria & Afghanistan and God knows how many in the many skirmishes and coups it assists everywhere. So this is comeuppance. This is how it happens. Whom the Lord wants to destroy, he first hardens their hearts. Exodus 4:21; Joshua 11:20. Like Kerry's currently hardened heart and God knows what else, maybe we could do a cavity search on him someday to find out. People can never be totally disconnected from the atrocities any entity commits. Some people will be disconcerted with these developments because they previously thought they could run with the hare and talk to the hound as an equal.

Anand K · Post by **Anand K** » 19 Dec 2013 12:21

Googled out SHAT

(sorry with the frivolity milords) and came up with this:
Similar case involving Peruvian Diplomat and Safe Horizons

Did this diplomat also get the same treatment? Did Ms. Dios get the T-Visa and S.H.A.T. win another notch on their bedpost?

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 19 Dec 2013 12:21

CEO of SHAT: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ariel-zwang/

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 19 Dec 2013 12:25

Anyway, my theory of a dirty attorney has come true. There has to be some org like this to organize this kind of movement.

I am now leaning towards an over-zealous "savage-civilizing-mission" gone wrong theory rather than CIA mole theory.

Recent drain-inspector reports about India were cribbing about how there is "slavery" in India and how everyone from top to bottom is exploiting the dalit slaves etc. So I guess they decided to make an "example" of someone when they got a chance.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 19 Dec 2013 12:27

The only sort who get such royal treatment and admittance into the hallowed US of A are high level political defectors and traitors/spies! Even the exalted Sha-en-Shah of Iran.America's closest bum chum was denied refuge when dying of cancer because of the Iranian hostage crisis.It shows up the US for what it truly is,a white racist neo-colonial entity.

The GOI should strip search and examine all "orifices" of US diplomats entering and leaving the country,as some may be carrying drugs or other contraband.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 19 Dec 2013 12:29

https://twitter.com/SafeHorizon/status/ ... 3642230784

BREAKING: Safe Horizon staff will be appearing on @CNN & @abcnews this evening to discuss alleged exploitation by Indian diplomat.

Did this already happen?

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 19 Dec 2013 12:32

Times Now > Tracks down the Richards family in Delhi

Anand K · Post by **Anand K** » 19 Dec 2013 12:36

Here's a WT article which came a day after the arrest apparently

And here's a curious case of Kuwaiti diplomat and Indian workers.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 19 Dec 2013 12:40

I wouldn't go near Kerry's "cavities" even with a danda.One is risking contracting AIDS!

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 19 Dec 2013 12:43

putnanja wrote:'Kerry was aware of Khobragarde's arrest'

The State Department has not received any communication from the Indian government about the transfer of the Indian diplomat to the United Nations, she said.
[/b]

"We have seen these media reports, but we at the State Department have not received any official communication regarding a possible change of credentials," she said.

"In terms of the process, if and when such a request is made to the UN, it would be made to the UN Secretariat, who would then inform the Department of State. If, again, such a request is made, which we have not received any communication on such a request, it would have to be reviewed by all appropriate authorities at the UN and at the Department of State.

"It's not an automatic thing by any means. But again, we haven't received such a request," she noted.

"Since no request has been made to us, I don't know what that would look like in practice. I've been very clear about what her diplomatic status was at the time of the arrest and currently is, which is, of course, consular immunity," she said.