India-US Strategic News and Discussion

habal · Post by **habal** » 20 Dec 2013 23:16

Dipanker wrote:
Mr. Habal let keep the conversation civilized, you didn't need to twist my moniker, you could have just used Dipanker instead.

Hopefully the MODS take notice of this and ask you to edit your post. Thanks,

Well I am sorry Mr. Dipanker. But the pages just don't seem to end and basically consist of questions from your side and rest are answers from the rest. There was little on what happened in the last 24 hours. So excuse me for the angst.

vivek.rao · Post by **vivek.rao** » 20 Dec 2013 23:24

http://www.firstpost.com/politics/why-t ... 98735.html
Why the US dept statement spells real trouble for Devyani

Read more at: http://www.firstpost.com/politics/why-t ... ef_article

The most significant disclosure by the spokesperson, is the non-retroactive nature of Devyani’s to-be-acquired diplomatic immunity. The spokesperson had to just state a publicly known fact that the request for Devyani’s new status has to go from the UN secretariat to the US State Department, which will decide whether to accept it or not.
In all probability the US will accept it, but it will be active only from the day it’s conferred. So what does this mean? Simply put, it means that Devyani will still be unprotected against these charges and can very well be prosecuted.
The other option is to restrain Preet Bharara from pushing ahead, which is impossible. So, as of now, she is in really serious trouble.

The State Department’s response is a reiteration of what Preet Bharara said in his statement, which Khurshid chose to ignore. If the US wanted to play ball with India, it could have kept quiet; instead, it not only underscored whatever Bharara said, but also chose to sound harsher.

The spokesperson went on to say that even if the complaint is withdrawn (obviously by Sangeeta), the charges against Devyani need not be dropped.

Here are the key statements by the State Department spokesperson that tells the complete story which we may not like.
* The charges cannot be withdrawn
”We take these allegations very seriously. We're not in any way walking back from those allegations or the charges. Again, this is really a law enforcement issue,"

* To prosecute or not is not a choice
”We certainly take these types of allegations very seriously though. It's not a decision for us whether to prosecute or not,

* The process may not stop even if the complaint is withdrawn

”I don't know the details of the complaint, and I don't know if even withdrawing the complaint, which I'm not saying anybody is considering would, in fact, drop the charge. That's not something that's even being considered," * The new immunity strategy is unlikely to work - It cannot be retroactive ”It is not retroactive," she said in response to a question."Generally speaking, if there's a change in immunity, because of a different diplomatic status, that immunity would start on the date it's conferred, after the process,"

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 20 Dec 2013 23:26

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 20 Dec 2013 23:26

Gurus here (and Bji recently on another thread) mentioned how the UK assets were left untouched after independence. Assets are also "Brown Sepoys" who will do the batting for UK, US when the time comes. THey are the true embedded sleeper cells. Brown from outside, white from inside.. and filled with self hate. If our independence struggle was violent, i.e. a war these elements would have been terminated. But we had a peaceful liberation which was as bloody as any war for independence. The price we paid the price for peaceful liberation was with blood induced through partition and also 1971.

We are liberated now, physically. However we are not truly independent and that is because the British power structures that were used to exploit India were left untouched after independence. I think this is the biggest blunder of our founding fathers. Looking at it from that perspective Nehru is just a symptom of the disease that is the blunder. Just that symptom has caused a lot of damage that continues to this day.

Every Indian should read this part of the book "Wretched of the Earth" (again hard work, but worth it). It reasons why violence is a necessary evil for true liberation (aka independence) from colonialism:
http://www.openanthropology.org/fanonviolence.htm

National liberation, national renaissance, the restoration of nationhood to the people, commonwealth: whatever may be the headings used or the new formulas introduced, decolonization is always a violent phenomenon. At whatever level we study it--relationships between individuals, new names for sports clubs, the human admixture at cocktail parties, in the police, on the directing boards of national or private banks--decolonization is quite simply the replacing of a certain "species" of men by another "species" of men. Without any period of transition, there is a total, complete, and absolute substitution. It is true that we could equally well stress the rise of a new nation, the setting up of a new state, its diplomatic relations, and its economic and political trends. But we have precisely chosen to speak of that kind of tabula rasa which characterizes at the outset all decolonization. Its unusual importance is that it constitutes, from the very first day, the minimum demands of the colonized. To tell the truth, the proof of success lies in a whole social structure being changed from the bottom up. The extraordinary importance of this change is that it is willed, called for, demanded. The need for this change exists in its crude state, impetuous and compelling, in the consciousness and in the lives of the men and women who are colonized. But the possibility of this change is equally experienced in the form of a terrifying future in the consciousness of another "species" of men and women: the colonizers.

Decolonization, which sets out to change the order of the world, is, obviously, a program of complete disorder. But it cannot come as a result of magical practices, nor of a natural shock, nor of a friendly understanding. Decolonization, as we know, is a historical process: that is to say that it cannot be understood, it cannot become intelligible nor clear to itself except in the exact measure that we can discern the movements which give it historical form and content. Decolonization is the meeting of two forces, opposed to each other by their very nature, which in fact owe their originality to that sort of substantification which results from and is nourished by the situation in the colonies. Their first encounter was marked by violence and their existence together--that is to say the exploitation of the native by the settler--was carried on by dint of a great array of bayonets and cannons. The settler and the native are old acquaintances. In fact, the settler is right when he speaks of knowing "them" well. For it is the settler who has brought the native into existence and who perpetuates his existence. The settler owes the fact of his very existence, that is to say, his property, to the colonial system.

Decolonization never takes place unnoticed, for it influences individuals and modifies them fundamentally. It transforms spectators crushed with their inessentiality into privileged actors, with the grandiose glare of history's floodlights upon them. It brings a natural rhythm into existence, introduced by new men, and with it a new language and a new humanity. Decolonization is the veritable creation of new men. But this creation owes nothing of its legitimacy to any supernatural power; the "thing" which has been colonized becomes man during the same process by which it frees itself.

In decolonization, there is therefore the need of a complete calling in question of the colonial situation. If we wish to describe it precisely, we might find it in the wellknown words: "The last shall be first and the first last." Decolonization is the putting into practice of this sentence. That is why, if we try to describe it, all decolonization is successful.

The naked truth of decolonization evokes for us the searing bullets and bloodstained knives which emanate from it. For if the last shall be first, this will only come to pass after a murderous and decisive struggle between the two protagonists. That affirmed intention to place the last at the head of things, and to make them climb at a pace (too quickly, some say) the well-known steps which characterize an organized society, can only triumph if we use all means to turn the scale, including, of course, that of violence.

You do not turn any society, however primitive it may be, upside down with such a program if you have not decided from the very beginning, that is to say from the actual formulation of that program, to overcome all the obstacles that you will come across in so doing. The native who decides to put the program into practice, and to become its moving force, is ready for violence at all times. From birth it is clear to him that this narrow world, strewn with prohibitions, can only be called in question by absolute violence.

The colonial world is a world divided into compartments. It is probably unnecessary to recall the existence of native quarters and European quarters, of schools for natives and schools for Europeans; in the same way we need not recall apartheid in South Africa. Yet, if we examine closely this system of compartments, we will at least be able to reveal the lines of force it implies. This approach to the colonial world, its ordering and its geographical layout will allow us to mark out the lines on which a decolonized society will be reorganized.

The colonial world is a world cut in two. The dividing line, the frontiers are shown by barracks and police stations. In the colonies it is the policeman and the soldier who are the official, instituted go-betweens, the spokesmen of the settler and his rule of oppression. In capitalist societies the educational system, whether lay or clerical, the structure of moral reflexes handed down from father to son, the exemplary honesty of workers who are given a medal after fifty years of good and loyal service, and the affection which springs from harmonious relations and good behavior--all these aesthetic expressions of respect for the established order serve to create around the exploited person an atmosphere of submission and of inhibition which lightens the task of policing considerably. In the capitalist countries a multitude of moral teachers, counselors and "bewilderers" separate the exploited from those in power. In the colonial countries, on the contrary, the policeman and the soldier, by their immediate presence and their frequent and direct action maintain contact with the native and advise him by means of rifle butts and napalm not to budge. It is obvious here that the agents of government speak the language of pure force. The intermediary does not lighten the oppression, nor seek to hide the domination; he shows them up and puts them into practice with the clear conscience of an upholder of the peace; yet he is the bringer of violence into the home and into the mind of the native.

The zone where the natives live is not complementary to the zone inhabited by the settlers. The two zones are opposed, but not in the service of a higher unity. Obedient to the rules of pure Aristotelian logic, they both follow the principle of reciprocal exclusivity. No conciliation is possible, for of the two terms, one is superfluous. The settlers' town is a strongly built town, all made of stone and steel. It is a brightly lit town; the streets are covered with asphalt, and the garbage cans swallow all the leavings, unseen, unknown and hardly thought about. The settler's feet are never visible, except perhaps in the sea; but there you're never close enough to see them. His feet are protected by strong shoes although the streets of his town are clean and even, with no holes or stones. The settler's town is a well-fed town, an easygoing town; its belly is always full of good things. The settlers' town is a town of white people, of foreigners.

The town belonging to the colonized people, or at least the native town, the Negro village, the medina, the reservation, is a place of ill fame, peopled by men of evil repute. They are born there, it matters little where or how; they die there, it matters not where, nor how. It is a world without spaciousness; men live there on top of each other, and their huts are built one on top of the other. The native town is a hungry town, starved of bread, of meat, of shoes, of coal, of light. The native town is a crouching village, a town on its knees, a town wallowing in the mire. It is a town of niggers and dirty Arabs. The look that the native turns on the settler's town is a look of lust, a look of envy; it expresses his dreams of possession--all manner of possession: to sit at the settler's table, to sleep in the settler's bed, with his wife if possible. The colonized man is an envious man. And this the settler knows very well; when their glances meet he ascertains bitterly, always on the defensive, "They want to take our place." It is true, for there is no native who does not dream at least once a day of setting himself up in the settler's place.

Abhijit · Post by **Abhijit** » 20 Dec 2013 23:29

http://www.smh.com.au/comment/india-sta ... 2zlj8.html

An excellent article

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 20 Dec 2013 23:31

I know I am preaching to the choir but here are a few myths that need to be exploded:

1. US justice system is "Fair" everything is by the Book:

Actually this is not true. US justice system is terribly biased towards law enforcement and against the citizens. Let me give you two examples:

(A) The strip search issue: Actually held as valid by the supreme court of the US. Has a colorful history though -- There was a guy, who was driving his car, was stopped by police because he had fines and warrant outstanding. The guy protested, told the police that he had paid the fines and the warrant was withdrawn. Police arrested him. He might have insulted the police, that part is not clear. As he was waiting in the station, police did a check on him and figured out that the warrant was withdrawn and he had paid his fines -- in other words, there was no reason to arrest him. They strip and cavity searched him anyway. Fellow sued them in court, and told them that The police used strip and cavity search as a method of intimidation and subjugation and pretty much did it to get back at him. Guy actually went all the way upto the supreme court and lost. Supreme court held (i) Police can arrest under probably cause and suspicion (ii) They are under no obligation to verify counter claims in a time bound manner (iii) They can take all manner of precautions. This is despite demonstrating two issues (i) The amount of arms/contraband found during such search is almost nil (ii) Strip search has been regularly abused and used as an intimidation tactic. (iii) It is nothing but sanctioned rape -- stripping the clothes off a person and inspecting their private parts without consent is rape. Period.

So there you go. There is a rich history of using sexual humiliation as a intimidation tactic. Even during war times -- Abu Ghraib was not a one off event.

(B) No knock warrants: There was a guy who was sleeping. He woke up to some commotion, saw a bunch of plain clothed armed men. He shot one of them. He was arrested for killing a police officer (the plain clothes people were police). Fellow counter sued saying that it is unconstitutional to enter someone's home without knocking, announcing that they are the police, identifying themselves to be police either through uniform, claiming they are the police or by showing a badge. Court sided with the police.

There are several such cases where US courts have sided with the police, even in instances when the person is not found guilty and not under arrest. Preet Bharara's pompous declaration about

"Law is equal whoever it is" should be qualified by -- not so in the context of minorities. White fella who shot trayvon martin got zero days in in prison. Black lady who shot her gun in the air, to defend herself against her husband who has a history of abuse against her, got 40 years in prison.

"Rich or poor" should be qualified by -- Black people with less than a gram of crack cocaine (there is an interesting story about this involving Neil DeGrasse Tyson) have had decade long prison sentences. Linday Lohan does cocaine, drinks, wrecks her car multiple times and gets "rehab" as punishment.

"American or not" should be qualified by -- Not in the case of David Headley, Union Carbide Chairman or Raymond Davis

2. US justice system is fiercely independent.
Headley. No need to look any further.

Instead of putting faith in a system whose warts people are not aware of, please educate yourself about realities. I frequently come across pompous comments about Caste system in India with desis concurring. I point out that caste-based discrimination is against the law and always has been since India's independence. As opposed to segregation in the US which was eradicated only in the 60's.

So dont fall for slick advertisements and pompous statements.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 20 Dec 2013 23:35

ManjaM:
Another problem with the Times Now in this episode (and probably several other), is they bring in nobodys into the discussion. They brought in some immigration lawyer from Seattle, some columnist, USA editor ityadi and whipped them left and right. It is a worthless exercise and is like beating a dead snake. It is not like they are interviewing Kerry or Clinton - somebody who makes a difference in terms of opinion or policy direction. Why catch irrelevant and trivial fish and fry them, when the actual fish are swimming merrily.

As it was remarked in these pages, the truth will not be out and will remain in the confines of CT pages and discussion forums plus in the halls of agencies and rooms of diplomats. All one can expect is India demands and gets the respect it deserves on protocols and procedure violations. And is able to get justice on other charges - like evacuating Sangeeta's family.

Abhijit · Post by **Abhijit** » 20 Dec 2013 23:38

Anujan saar, seeking permission to copy-paste your above post in suitable social media platforms.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 20 Dec 2013 23:44

vivek.rao wrote:http://www.firstpost.com/politics/why-t ... 98735.html
Why the US dept statement spells real trouble for Devyani

Read more at: http://www.firstpost.com/politics/why-t ... ef_article

Vivek, I hold the contrary opinion on this aspect. See my post http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 7#p1562257

remember Assange who is holed up in Ecuador's London Embassy and UK is not able to do anything. Though Assange has no immunity but the premises is Ecuadorian territory hence Police can't enter.

Now if DK is living in Indian Mission then DA or NYPD or anybody can't do anything even if US does not grant immunity.

If she is given accreditation and granted diplomatic immunity the she is free to move around etc and also leave the country if she wishes. Prosecution may proceed but who gives a fart when she is safe and sound and working right there in NY or back in Desh or in another Country. Immunity will protect her from all eventuality unless she expressly waives it for this particular case as provided for in VC.

But as pointed out by many reciprocity is the name of the game and the only solution is to throw someone in jail here in India most likely some Deputy Consul General. That will make amirkhan rent and rave but retract all charges.

Kati · Post by **Kati** » 20 Dec 2013 23:51

Singha wrote:so long as this circus of all critical parts of the indian power elite 'placing' their sons/daughters via marriage and immigration into the US does not end, this unequal treatment will continue. even MMS daughter who last I heard was a ACLU lawyer is probably carrying a american passport by now! not having foreign entanglements must be strictly enforced for higher levels of babus and political appointees.

our elites can do nothing - not the congi regime for sure. and all the senior babus have their sons/daughters/bhatijas in the US.

Not probably, she is ....

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 21 Dec 2013 00:00

Some relevant OT humor:

How Russia takes care of US nuclear command head:

http://gawker.com/air-force-general-fir ... 1487083877

About this time, the two "travel executives" showed up and made a beeline for Carey, in front of his subordinates. He left with them and tied another one on at some bars. The following night, he ended up drinking in the hotel lobby with the cigar sales lady, who "was asking questions about physics and optics."

Sridhar · Post by **Sridhar** » 21 Dec 2013 00:02

Jan 13 is the court appearance date. By that date, if the UN accreditation does not come, the Government needs to start doing some reciprocating. Let the Mount Road police apply their "standard procedures" that are applied to all citizens of Chennai when the US deputy consul general's car comes out of the consulate compound and violates some traffic law. I am sure the Breach Candy police in Mumbai and the Esplanade police station in Kolkata have interesting "standard procedures" of their own as well. The issue will be solved immediate if that step is taken. But all of this is wishful thinking - all the Government will do is cosmetic stuff like starting to charge customs duty on liquor imports.

Make it truly reciprocal, and the Americans will come to their senses.

krithivas · Post by **krithivas** » 21 Dec 2013 00:35

Ms. Devyani will NEVER get a fair jury trial in the US because the common populace has been poisoned by a never ending stream of caste bias, oppression stories against Indians in general.

One of the negative fall outs of this story is going to that this erroneous mindset is going to get more ingrained in the US and elsewhere. As the London School of Economics Professor wrote this mindset is being fueled by Indians themselves or at-least the ones that have air time, Suzanne Roy for example. I would submit that this will not stop until we stop producing McCaulay's children.

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 21 Dec 2013 00:50

Cosmo_R wrote:
vic wrote:I am astounded by clearance given to C-130 deal, the munna could not wait even a few days? No more posts from me, am aghast at this shameless corrupt government.
I realize emotions (mine included) are running high. However, the C-130s are something the IAF/SF desperately need. To delay/derail this would be no different than losing arty vendor suing MoD and delaying induction. LM and Boeing are our friends and they have far more clout with the US Congress than we will ever have.

Let us not cut off our nose to spite our face. There are enough reciprocal measures that GoI (if it wants to) can take.

As Rajeev Malhotra says: "Good cop/ Bad cop.

All this railing against the US, talks of arresting US gay diplomats, conducting nuclear tests etc, are just expressions of impotent rage. We know very well that the Indian Government will not take any serious action. And its not just because MMS or whoever lacks the spine. Even if he had one to what extent could he go? Would we be in a position to really kick them in the balls by say giving asylum to Edward Snowden, like Russia did? No, whom are we kidding. We simply do not have the space to maneuver, complete freedom of action. It would be much more productive if time is spent on why we are in this situation. On of the reasons which is pertinent to this forum is undoubtedly our huge dependence on imported weapons. For foreign weapon that we buy we pay for it in sovereignty. For any country which has aspirations of being a great power would try to produce all armaments locally, or at least as much as possible. This is what China has been doing. But we seem to be doing the opposite. We not only liberally buy weapons from from foreign powers, keep our local industry underdeveloped but also not fully exploit the few weapons that we do successfully develop. There is always some reason or the other to import. Its the same with this C-130 deal. Now we do not have control over the people to be who are responsible for this situation but there are many in this very form who openly bat for foreign weapons over indigenous weapons for whatever reasons(of course its always too small, too heavy, too far away in the future, too what ever). I'm just a little perplexed at this reaction. If you are dependent on others you need to swallow your pride too. Have they not realized this?

RCase · Post by **RCase** » 21 Dec 2013 00:56

Saar, exactly my point. Make some insignificant violation, as if it is a major breach so that everyone gets the irony of it!

Would love to see MEA spokesperson talk to press on:

How following traffic rules are so important to ensure the safety and security of citizens,
Police taking their time to carefully verify the papers are in the best interest of not letting criminals get away
Police take their work seriously and work in hot, humid, tropical environments and everyone needs to be understanding that they try to apply the equally to one and all, whether you are in a car, lorry, bus, autorickshaw, bicycle, bullockcart (sic), pushcart or pedestrian

That will fun for the social media, TV hacks on CNN, BBC etc. to go gungho talking about Indian traffic and laws with protestations of "this is trivial and frivolous" with dead pan MEA responses of "laws of the land are to be followed". Equally funny will be the spokesperson of SD spending cycles defending how this law is different. It truly will be the comedy of the absurd. I am sure the American public will catch on!

sivab · Post by **sivab** » 21 Dec 2013 01:00

Important details on what awaits US diplomatic/consulate staff

http://www.dailypioneer.com/columnists/ ... oject.html

Maid in Manhattan: A migration project

Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade, accused of violating US labour laws, seems to be the victim herself, entrapped by her domestic help on the one hand and an over-ambitious district attorney on the other

Why did the Devyani Khobragade case blow up into a diplomatic crisis? Three factors have to be kept in mind. First, Ms Khobragade’s arrest has so angered the Indian system because there is genuine belief in the Ministry of External Affairs that she did no wrong. She is not guilty of any individual crime. If she used a short-cut — and one a clever lawyer can defend in court — it was with the approbation of both countries.

Contrary to media reports, Ms Khobragade’s contract with her housekeeper, Sangeeta Richard, does not promise her a composite sum of US $4,500 a month or anything of the sort. It promises an hourly wage — “minimum wage in New York or prevailing wage, whichever is higher” — and agrees to make deductions for perquisites such as medical insurance, room rent, food and so on. This contract was shown, not submitted, to United States Embassy officials by Ms Richard to get her visa. Ms Richard also submitted a form that stated her employer’s salary — a third figure altogether and if considered strictly in terms of its cash component, itself in violation of New York’s minimum wage.

Some but far from all Indian diplomats posted in the US take along domestic staff. These employees are paid high salaries by Indian standards and all expenses are taken care of. Obviously hourly wages in New York (or Washington, DC) are much greater and some of the domestic employees are tempted to moonlight. On occasion, they have alleged mistreatment by the diplomat, gone to human rights NGOs and sought to institute legal proceedings. In some cases, Indian diplomats have been indicted. In some cases, the police has found no case against them and recognised the charges are false. However, so strong is the organised human rights/anti-trafficking lobby that in all cases — irrespective of the veracity of their charges — the cooks or housekeepers have got their green cards or legal resident status in the US.

So why didn’t Ms Richard allege the Khobragade family was beating her up and why did she bring up the salary discrepancy? This is because Ms Khobragade had done something different from other Indian Foreign Service colleagues who take along domestic staff. She had signed a second contract, promising to pay Ms Richard Rs 30,000 a month. The entire money was transferred to a bank account — since Ms Richard had no expenses in New York — and the second contract was signed to make the employee feel secure. Such second contracts are certainly not usual practice. The MEA believes Ms Khobragade signed the second contract in good faith. Ms Richard’s insistence on this is now being viewed as ‘entrapment’ and part of a pre-conceived migration plan.

Second, it is likely somebody in the US Embassy — probably an official or a family member, acting in a private capacity and knowing Ms Richard and her in-laws personally — advised Ms Richard to exploit the two-contract loophole, use anti-trafficking laws to bolster her case, approach certain anti-trafficking NGOs and then District Attorney Preet Bharara’s office. This person possibly made Ms Richard aware that if, at this stage, the district attorney’s office asked for Ms Richard’s family to be ‘evacuated’ to the US as witnesses in an anti-trafficking case, their visas could not be denied. Adult family members would be given the requisite T category visa to live and work in the US.

In South Block, there is belief this elaborate plan was drawn up even before Ms Richard left for the US. That is why External Affairs Minister Salman Khurshid called Ms Khobragade the victim of “a conspiracy”. The end purpose of the conspiracy was to facilitate the Richard family’s permanent migration.

Third, the motivations of Mr Bharara and the State Department are different. Mr Bharara is an ambitious man in New York, looking to take on the high and mighty — usually white collar criminals on Wall Street — project himself as ‘Mr Clean-up’ and build a political career. Targeting a diplomat who seemed to violate a contract, especially a diplomat from the country of his origin, appealed to him. New York is home to hundreds of diplomats, working in consulates or at the United Nations. Some can be pushy, emboldened by their immunity status. This has made the diplomatic corps unpopular with ordinary New Yorkers. Ironically, Indian diplomats are relatively well behaved in this construct. Nevertheless, Mr Bharara grabbed his chance.

The State Department was asleep at the wheel. Old India hands had moved out in recent months and a new team was handling New Delhi. Its communication channels were blurred. It clearly did not anticipate the Indian reaction. As for the US Embassy, it has known for years that the contract shown by domestic employees while applying for a visa is not necessarily indicative of true cash wage. It informally advised this subterfuge as part of an arrangement between two foreign offices, which gave each other privileges that technically may have violated local laws.

So what happens next? Ms Khobragade’s lawyer will contest Mr Bharara on grounds of jurisdiction, contending the contracts can’t be adjudicated by a New York court. Mr Bharara will push for conviction. The State Department can back Mr Bharara’s legal case or it can grant Ms Khobragade a G-1 visa and agree to her transfer to the Indian mission at the UN. This will give her full diplomatic immunity. Alternatively, it can declare her persona non grata and expel her. In that case India will similarly expel a US diplomat.

Whatever happens, the Indian system is determined to walk down the path of reciprocity. Unilateral privileges given to US diplomats have been withdrawn. The blanket airport passes for US officials have gone. The barricades outside the US embassy in New Delhi, which blocked a major city road, have been removed. They were not there because of any specific threat perception but followed a verbal request made to an earlier, expansive Lieutenant Governor of Delhi by the then US Ambassador.

The US gives officials at the Indian embassy in Washington, DC, full diplomatic immunity but denies this to diplomats at Indian consulates in other cities. In India, however, it has sought full diplomatic immunity even for its consulate officials in say Chennai or Mumbai. India has revoked this. Consulate officials will have lesser consular immunity. Their identity cards will be stamped with “No immunity from felony”. This is exactly what cards of Indian consulate officials in the US say.

Next, the Indian taxman will get into the act. Indians employed by the US Embassy and by US diplomats in a personal capacity will be required to submit income as well as tax documentation. If irregularities are found, to assist the course of justice their American employers may be ‘requested’ to come to the tax office to help ‘clarify doubts’.

A host of privileges, some of them extracted in the aftermath of the 1962 war with China, when India was vulnerable, are being reconsidered. Foreign nationals (like spouses or friends of diplomats) teaching in the American Embassy School in India are allowed tax-free salaries. This regime is being re-assessed. Foreign teachers at such schools do need work permits. Do they have them? Are Indian teachers too being paid tax-free salaries, which would be illegal? These are all questions the tax bureaucracy will ask. It will not be a picnic.

Lastly, what of Sangeeta Richard and her family? Frankly, their migration project is complete. India will never see them again.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 21 Dec 2013 01:02

Kirthivas ji,
The fact is the Sahib mentality of condescending finger wagging using caste,religion,gender etc is a strategy devised by the same Massa and Briturd establishments , where you want Indian media to somehow try to influence opinion.
You can check out the number of "Sooth Asia" departments churning out Brown sahibs trained in various subaltern studies to cleave the heathens from one another in their turd world haunts.

Most of the media celebs hogging primetime on National TV in India are products of such Massa establishments (Universities where the humanities studies departments specialize in imparting training in sophistry especially targeted at the turd world ).

My point being, anti-Hindu and anti-Indian well springs in Massa lands are more than sufficient to mold Massa main stream opinion to the detriment of India with out the need of Indian media lending a helping hand (as it invariably does anyway these days).

First this malicious link between overseas sahibs and local brown sahibs has to be severed , then we can hope to have influencing media like how Russia managed with its Russia Today (RT) news service.

RCase · Post by **RCase** » 21 Dec 2013 01:15

krithivas wrote:Ms. Devyani will NEVER get a fair jury trial in the US because the common populace has been poisoned by a never ending stream of caste bias, oppression stories against Indians in general.

If it goes to trial it is a Lose situation. With Pretty Boy, every Indian negative stereo type will be used, whether true or false. These guys can make Mother Teresa look like a whore or Mahatma Gandhi a firebrand terrorist. In a case like this, DK will be made out to be a rich, elitist, sadistic, conniving, super bitch. Will resonate very well with a jury of common folks. Also, the gullible masses will not be able to differentiate between middle east and sooth asia versus Yindia with vague religious freedom insinuations.

Expecting judicial victory on technical merits is like praying to the gods done by our ancestors to the invading hordes of Islamic barbarians.

Just remember how the whole world was conned in WMD discovery in Iraq with sattelite pictures to boot.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 21 Dec 2013 01:16

Lilo wrote:Kirthivas ji,
The fact is the Sahib mentality of condescending finger wagging using caste,religion,gender etc is a strategy devised by the same Massa and Briturd establishments , where you want Indian media to somehow try to influence opinion.
You can check out the number of "Sooth Asia" departments churning out Brown sahibs trained in various subaltern studies to cleave the heathens from one another in their turd world haunts.

Most of the media celebs hogging primetime on National TV in India are products of such Massa establishments (Universities where the humanities studies departments specialize in imparting training in sophistry especially targeted at the turd world ).

My point being, anti-Hindu and anti-Indian well springs in Massa lands are more than sufficient to mold Massa main stream opinion to the detriment of India with out the need of Indian media lending a helping hand (as it invariably does anyway these days).

First this malicious link between overseas sahibs and local brown sahibs has to be severed , then we can hope to have influencing media like how Russia managed with its Russia Today (RT) news service.

Good luck to you.

It will be well nigh impossible to do so as long as the briturd / amreeki visa remains the most coveted desire of slimy politicos, greasy babus and the self seeking aam jantha janardhan.

Everyone knows this is what is being exploited by the briturds and the amreekis with consistent results.

Time to go back to our non aligned days of soviet worship??

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 21 Dec 2013 01:21

Its a catch 22. As long as India is not developed, Green Card will be coveted, creating brown sahibs. As long as Brown Sahibs exist, India will not be developed.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 21 Dec 2013 02:07

sivab wrote:Important details on what awaits US diplomatic/consulate staff

http://www.dailypioneer.com/columnists/ ... oject.html

Lastly, what of Sangeeta Richard and her family? Frankly, their migration project is complete. India will never see them again.

Welll not so fast. Their passports can be cancelled by India, making them unable to go to any other country other than the US inside which they will be illegal immigrants. The US will have to bend a lot of rules to give them a US passport. They could very well do that to show an ungli to India. So the act of passport cancellation should only be done once the issue cools off.

Even if they do get their green cards, a felony arrest can end their chance of being US citizens. Honestly I think they are in big trouble and they have taken an enormous risk at the cost of DK, India, and themselves. So ugly.

Sridhar · Post by **Sridhar** » 21 Dec 2013 02:20

There are US Marine Corps personnel stationed at the missions of the US (are they in Delhi alone, or also in the Consulates?). I am sure they carry weapons and that these are not licensed by the Indian authorities. Can't we arrest them under the Arms Act?

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 21 Dec 2013 02:21

Its a catch 22. As long as India is not developed, Green Card will be coveted, creating brown sahibs. As long as Brown Sahibs exist, India will not be developed.

A start with getting rid of Congress and then the Dilli Billis is a must for India to progress in any economic, military and human aspects (Strategic or Tactical).

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 21 Dec 2013 02:34

https://www.vocativ.com/12-2013/indian-nannies/

https://media.vocativ.com/photos/2013/1 ... 152771.jpg

A friend, who requested her name not be used to respect her privacy, says she was appalled when she recently visited a few New Delhi eating clubs. Her children’s nanny wasn’t allowed sit at the same table as the family. “It’s outrageous and totally humiliating for her,” she says.

That’s exactly how Kesh felt on a daily basis, which is why after a year on the job, she quit and found work with a professor who treats her well.

anjan · Post by **anjan** » 21 Dec 2013 02:35

Sridhar wrote:There are US Marine Corps personnel stationed at the missions of the US (are they in Delhi alone, or also in the Consulates?). I am sure they carry weapons and that these are not licensed by the Indian authorities. Can't we arrest them under the Arms Act?

Within the diplomatic buildings they're on sovereign territory and US laws apply. I think they use diplomatic bags to get stuff like that in.

It would be somewhat foolish to go out on a limb to get them. They've gone with "Host laws must be followed" like a chant. Well that's rope enough to hang them with. I suspect it's next to impossible in any country to be guilty of nothing. They should catch them for loitering or more than 2 ml of smelly perfume or some such random stuff. It would be interesting to see if there is solidarity among babus though. Will the IAS and the IPS stand by their brethren in the IFS or will they side with the politicans and let the IFS be hung out to dry? Would be good to heed what Ben Franklin, the original Unkil, said ""We must, indeed, all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately "

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 21 Dec 2013 02:37

Sridhar wrote:There are US Marine Corps personnel stationed at the missions of the US (are they in Delhi alone, or also in the Consulates?). I am sure they carry weapons and that these are not licensed by the Indian authorities. Can't we arrest them under the Arms Act?

They are all inside deemed US territory onlee. We can't touch them.

If we do, we will have US marines guarding the Indian embassy in the US for sure and doing free cavity searches too.

Best to follow safe path of ahimsa onlee.

Arrest a US Dy consul general in India for reciprocity. An Indian pandu doing a cavity search will surely be an experience for ANYONE. Possibly, some recent US recipients of the official Indian Visa might even enjoy it, thereby generating some good will for salman the cursed.

Abhijit · Post by **Abhijit** » 21 Dec 2013 02:40

This case can potentially be the downfall of the pretty boy barara. There is equal chance that this case may be lost by him and then his entire overzealous prosecution and intimidation tactics will come under scrutiny. He has already ruffled many other powerful feathers.

chanakyaa · Post by **chanakyaa** » 21 Dec 2013 02:41

SBajwa wrote:
Its a catch 22. As long as India is not developed, Green Card will be coveted, creating brown sahibs. As long as Brown Sahibs exist, India will not be developed.
A start with getting rid of Congress and then the Dilli Billis is a must for India to progress in any economic, military and human aspects (Strategic or Tactical).

You can not wipe out kangress as an institution but definitely finish Gadhi's political hold once and for all. They have stayed there way beyond expiration period

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 21 Dec 2013 02:42

Good post Anujan. Let me add one more, very recent example:

A white, rich juvenile (16-year-old Ethan Couch) drinks & drives a car, kills 4 people & seriously injures 2 passengers in his own car. White juvenile's psychiatrist argues that he suffers from "affluenza" - i.e. the uncaring attitude that comes from being rich. Seriously, I am not making this shit up! The judge agrees with the psychiatrist and sentences the juvenile to 10 years of probation and a year of in-patient treatment at a California rehab center. That's it. Imagine if it was a 16 year old black person from the 'hood!

If Americans talk about equality before the law, we can ask them shove it into places which wont be revealed even in cavity searches

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 21 Dec 2013 02:47

It also appears that it was a big miscalculation from the maid's (and the maid's adviser's part):

They thought DK and GOI would go for an out of court settlement. This is the standard operating procedure in 'maid-in-manhattan' type cases. They did the same to a Kuwaiti guy, Peruvian guy etc and go away with an out of court settlement.

What they did not know was that DK and GOI babu culture will never bow down to an out of court settlement where they give money under the table to the maid. There are no procedures and/or they dont have a precedent of doing so.

Once DK refused to bow down, the Safe Horizons gang would have changed attorneys and gone with a "i will teach you a lesson you beotch" mode. I am not sure they knew what they were getting into. And now The maid, her family and DK are in big trouble. The Indian diplo service is demoralized.

The entity that really has nothing to do with it, the gora admi, is laughing his ass off and has found a new name to call us with :- "Modern Day Slave Owners"

chanakyaa · Post by **chanakyaa** » 21 Dec 2013 02:47

LokeshC wrote:
.....

Welll not so fast. Their passports can be cancelled by India, making them unable to go to any other country other than the US inside which they will be illegal immigrants. The US will have to bend a lot of rules to give them a US passport. They could very well do that to show an ungli to India. So the act of passport cancellation should only be done once the issue cools off.

Even if they do get their green cards, a felony arrest can end their chance of being US citizens. Honestly I think they are in big trouble and they have taken an enormous risk at the cost of DK, India, and themselves. So ugly.

No Saar....have you heard about witness protection program. They give you new identity, new house, new furniture and watch you back to make sure safety. US Marshall's job is to protect such people. Richards are history. They already have new name, which the ordinary people will never know about.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 21 Dec 2013 02:48

by Abhijit
This case can potentially be the downfall of the pretty boy barara. There is equal chance that this case may be lost by him and then his entire overzealous prosecution and intimidation tactics will come under scrutiny. He has already ruffled many other powerful feathers.

Like what other powerful feathers?

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 21 Dec 2013 02:53

chaanakya wrote:Safe Horizons,[/url] an Organisation whose Lawyer Dana Sussman is helping SR, has a tip sheet on Human Trafficking

...

The board is not the one to go after nor is Safe Horizons itself. It smells of reprisals.

All we really want is for the US to figure out a way of getting DK out of the country without having to stand trial. The only way that is going to happen is through a 'private exchange'. If RAW/IB are not in Keystone Kop mode, they have stashed 'cards'.

The US Embassy staff has enough 'stuff' that can be used against one or more.

Make DK getting out a US problem not ours.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 21 Dec 2013 03:01

chanakyaa wrote: No Saar....have you heard about witness protection program. They give you new identity, new house, new furniture and watch you back to make sure safety. US Marshall's job is to protect such people. Richards are history. They already have new name, which the ordinary people will never know about.

Yes, I do know about it. I dont think they can issue US passports on that. If they can do so, then yes, they are history as far as India is concerned and there is very little we can do about them other than try and uncover what their support structure was in India and be happy with post mortem analysis.

Sridhar · Post by **Sridhar** » 21 Dec 2013 03:10

Only the embassy in Delhi is sovereign territory - the consulates in other cities are not provided the same degree of protection as the embassy. Hence, my question specifically was about Marine Corps personnel in Mumbai, Chennai etc., not in New Delhi.

I am not saying that we should charge anybody under the Arms Act. I am only saying that could be an example of violation of the local laws by personnel in the consulate. Application of reciprocity in that case would hurt, and could be used to get a resolution to this case, and more generally, for the US to see some sense.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 21 Dec 2013 03:11

First, use this opportunity to clean house in India. How many of these wannabe Gora NGOs affiliated to khan and poodles are around? Go after all of them.
Second, cancel all privileges to Khan folks in India. Period, strict reciprocity.
Third, all those associated with this issue, out of India.
Fourth, no more purchases of mil or air transport gear from Khan, if Khan plays unfair.

The last will make the business folks align themselves to ensure these two bit NGO crooks stop interfering in US-India ties. The first three will teach a lesson to the diplo busybodies to mind their own business and stick to their job instead of interfering with other nations concerns.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 21 Dec 2013 03:18

LokeshC wrote:
...

Welll not so fast. Their passports can be cancelled by India, making them unable to go to any other country other than the US inside which they will be illegal immigrants. The US will have to bend a lot of rules to give them a US passport. They could very well do that to show an ungli to India. So the act of passport cancellation should only be done once the issue cools off.

Even if they do get their green cards, a felony arrest can end their chance of being US citizens. Honestly I think they are in big trouble and they have taken an enormous risk at the cost of DK, India, and themselves. So ugly.

All that judicial rigmarole is irrelevant. Secy of State can classify them as refugees from persecution and eventually issue a US passport, and interim travel documents which will be good enough to travel to wherever they want, except maybe India. India has no more power over the Richard family.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 21 Dec 2013 03:21

Acharya wrote:https://www.vocativ.com/12-2013/indian-nannies/

A friend, who requested her name not be used to respect her privacy, says she was appalled when she recently visited a few New Delhi eating clubs. Her children’s nanny wasn’t allowed sit at the same table as the family. “It’s outrageous and totally humiliating for her,” she says.

That’s exactly how Kesh felt on a daily basis, which is why after a year on the job, she quit and found work with a professor who treats her well.

The story sounds fishy to me. If an eating establishment is stupid enough to refuse to seat the nanny, did the lady then leave and take her business elsewhere, or complain to the manager, or threaten to bring the law down on him? Since what the restaurant is alleged to have done contravenes any number of Indian laws.

member_23365 · Post by **member_23365** » 21 Dec 2013 03:21

Guru log, I know this MMS govt can not do anything but can we put forward the idea of shifting UN to new location. Put forward the idea with EU and build a consensus among the friendly countries and countries whoes diplos are harassed. This thing can come from BJP too "Moving UN away from US to EU"

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 21 Dec 2013 03:23

Cosmo_R wrote:
chaanakya wrote:Safe Horizons,[/url] an Organisation whose Lawyer Dana Sussman is helping SR, has a tip sheet on Human Trafficking

...
The board is not the one to go after nor is Safe Horizons itself. It smells of reprisals.

All we really want is for the US to figure out a way of getting DK out of the country without having to stand trial. The only way that is going to happen is through a 'private exchange'. If RAW/IB are not in Keystone Kop mode, they have stashed 'cards'.

The US Embassy staff has enough 'stuff' that can be used against one or more.

Make DK getting out a US problem not ours.

Well that is how you make them interested in settling the issue. Go after them, and yes it would be reprisal. Witness RPI vandalising Dominos and Police being mute spectator and many here winking at this.