India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 22 Dec 2013 09:55

LokeshC, thats assuming current Govt is waging a PR war. They are very smart, so smart that while jingos on BR get apoplectic, they will probably be cutting a deal on the side and all this will slowly wither away.
Lets face it, soldier beheadings, terror strikes etc etc - none of them really led to any radical change in this Govts behavior. They are unlikely to change their spots now either. Besides which, since they will be out in the cold, politically in the coming year, they need all the foreign support they can get which means being as accommodating as possible.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 22 Dec 2013 09:57

Regarding "friends", nations do not have friends. Even the much heralded US-UK relationship has had its down moments. One notable one was the Suez Canal crisis of 1956.

http://history.state.gov/milestones/1953-1960/suez

Washington’s public censure of two of its most important allies temporarily soured relations with London and Paris and helped contribute to the resignation of British Prime Minister Anthony Eden in January 1957......By March 1957, however, the U.S.–U.K. bilateral relationship had recovered under Eden’s successor, Harold Macmillan.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Dec 2013 09:57

LokeshC That would make GOI same as US govt. and worse would be agaisnt the motto "satyameva jayate"

But they should do more to stop the US onslaught of transferring their guilt about slavery on to India.

Very clear GOI under misguided motives has been giving more facilities to US than it receives. Time to be strictly reciprocal. Why give more?

And the barricades lifting 3 months after the US actions is moronic for it confused the issues.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 22 Dec 2013 09:57

America is unilateralist, not isolationist
M.J. AKBAR
http://www.sunday-guardian.com/analysis ... olationist

The Romans believed that their empire was good for the defeated with as much sincerity as Americans believe that their forms of government, and their values, are synonymous with civilisation.
Dulles explained to the journalist Walter Lippman in an interview. "I've got to get some real fighting men into the south of Asia. The only Asians who can really fight are the Pakistanis. That's why we need them in the alliance. We could never get along without the Gurkhas."
A puzzled Lippman pointed out: "But Foster, the Gurkhas aren't Pakistanis."
"Well," said the sanguine Dulles, "they may not be Pakistanis, but they're Moslems."
"No, I'm afraid they're not Moslems either."
"No matter!" exclaimed Dulles imperiously, and carried on for another half an hour with a suitable sermon on how to stop reds from menacing our beds.
Today's secretary of state John Kerry knows geography, history and religion much better than his predecessor, but incidents arise, minor or major, that still leave one wondering: how far is Washington from the rest of the world? Or how far are the rest from Washington?The superpower model becomes inarguably superior, whether it is in the macro functioning of legislatures, or micro arrangements for domestic service. Any alternative is dismissed as unjust, inadequate, or illegal. This logic does not, however, always travel in both directions. An American working in India earns an American salary, but is highly unlikely to pay by American norms for cooks in the Delhi embassy [technically, American soil].

It is not the financial difference that grates upon the rest of the world, but the implicit sense of superiority, the feeling that there are always two laws, one for a superpower and one for the rest of the world. America can, for instance, demand, and get, diplomatic immunity for Raymond Davis, a spy masquerading as contractor, who killed two men in Lahore's broad daylight. Islamabad accepted this fudge as the price of relations with Washington. Other nations might not be able to comply with equal felicity, not least because their elected governments have to factor in public opinion.Governments, as we have seen, can sometimes get things right for the wrong reasons. This is more difficult when it comes to the street. In the case of Devyani Khobragade, the Indian diplomat who was treated harshly by a pompous American law enforcement officer, tensions will cluster around popular opinion long after they have eroded in government. Washington and Delhi need to recognise this, quickly. A ship cannot be lost for half-penny of tar.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 22 Dec 2013 09:58

The US and India share so many good traits that it is always an enigma why relations sometimes resemble a battlefield.The intentions of the founding fathers of the US,enshrined in its Constitution is one of the noblest intentions of mankind.The French gifted the Statue of Liberty to America in recognition of the new free state of America's dedication to its noble democratic principles ,encapsulated by the great French liberation cry of "Liberte,Egalite,Fraternite".

Just two centuries on, the US today sadly resembles anything but the state that its founding fathers created.The fascist nature of the state today can be found in the illegal snooping on billions of people around the world by the NSA in "Snoopgate".It conducts wars around the world on the flimsiest of excuses and in Iraq,using a pack of lies to control Iraq's oil.The same plot was planned for Syria,but for a resurgent Russia,which stood by the Syrian regime,we would've seen yet another so-called "Arab Spring" devastate yet again a Muslim country.The hard truth is that America does not treat other nations globally with any decent respect unless they possess the "big nuclear stick" in significant numbers like Russia or China. It refuses to recognise India as a Nuclear weapons state,preferring to equate it with a terrorist nuclear weapons state Pak,which is the world's worst proliferator of N-weapons along with China,apart from being the HQ of global terror.

"Egalite",equality,is the missing ingredient in its domestic and foreign policy.To the white US establishment,the non-white nations are "untermenschen". It is fundamentally run by racists today.The US has a long list of leaders and movers and shakers who have supported fascism since the last century.Hitler was bankrolled by the Bush family.Joe Kennedy was an outright fascist.In fact the American political and business elite during the last century were predominantly fascist.Some of the primary and more famous Americans and companies that were involved with the fascist regimes of Europe are: William Randolph Hearst, Joseph Kennedy (JFK's father), Charles Lindbergh, John Rockefeller, Andrew Mellon (head of Alcoa, banker, and Secretary of Treasury), DuPont, General Motors, Standard Oil (now Exxon), Ford, ITT, Allen Dulles (later head of the CIA), Prescott Bush, National City Bank, and General Electric.Ford was also active in Nazi Germany's prewar preparations. In 1938, for instance, it opened a truck assembly plant in Berlin whose "real purpose," according to U.S. Army Intelligence, was producing "troop transport-type" vehicles for the Wehrmacht. That year Ford's chief executive received the Nazi German Eagle (first class).Let's examine this further.

After American entry into World War II Lindbergh went to work for Henry Ford as an aircraft design consultant, and then went on to Japan to support American efforts in the Pacific. This was actually against the approval of the Roosevelt administration.
Henry Ford was an avowed anti-Semite, and significant contributor to the Nazi movement in Germany.
In 1920 Ford stated: "The international financiers are behind all war. They are what is called the International Jew -- German Jews, French Jews, English Jews, American Jews. I believe that in all these countries except our own the Jewish financier is supreme... Here, the Jew is a threat."In the 1920s he published The International Jew. Hitler himself ordered many copies of this book and was said to keep a copy on his desk. It is easy to see why when reading the book, because the attack on the Jews is vehement.

The Fathers of our nation were the men of the Anglo-Saxon-Celtic race. The men who came from Europe with civilization in their blood and in their destiny. (*Tell Gandhi about this,when asked what he thought of western civilisation he replied,"it would be a good idea"!)The men who crossed the Atlantic and set up civilization on a bleak and rock-bound coast; the men who drove north to Alaska and west to California; the men who opened up the tropics and subdued the arctics; the men who mastered the African veldt; the men who peopled Australia and seized the gates of the world at Suez, Gibraltar and Panama; men who have given form to every government and a livelihood to every people and an ideal to every century. They got neither their God nor their religion from Judah, nor yet their speech nor their creative genius- they are the Ruling People. Chosen throughout the centuries to Master the world, by building it ever better and better, and not by breaking it down.

Into the camp of this race, among the sons of the rulers, comes a people that has no civilization to point to, no aspiring religion, no universal speech, no great achievement in any realm but the realm of "get," cast out of every land that gave them hospitality, and these people endeavor to tell the Sons of the Saxons what is needed to make the world what it ought to be!

If our sons follow this counsel of dark rebellion and destruction, it is because they do not know whose sons they are, of what race they are the scions. Let there be free speech to the limit in our universities and free intercourse of ideas, but let Jewish thoughts be labeled Jewish, and let our sons know the racial secret...

People today try to put all of this blame on Hitler, but it was not just Hitler, in fact the ideas of the Nazis were far more pervasive and were publicized by Henry Ford.

Why? Because he believed in an international Jewish conspiracy. Ford was more then just anti-Semitic, you can see by reading his publications that it went well beyond a matter of racism and not liking people. He viewed this, and many others did as well, as a war between the Anglo way of life and that of the Jews.

The hate that so many talk about in America today, it runs much deeper then many would imagine, and it is founded in much more substantial ideas then most would think as well.

Ford helped shape Hitler's views on the Jews, and those of many people around he world.

At the Nuremberg Trials Baldur Von Shirach claimed that Henry Ford was the primary inspiration for his anti-Semitism.
Shirach, a former Nazi youth leader, stated: "You have no idea what a great influence this book had on the thinking of the German youth…I read Henry Ford's book 'The International Jewry'…and became anti-Semitic.

Today,there is an uneasy peace in the US between the Jewish community and the WASPs,because of the stability factor threat Israel brings to the Muslim M-East who control the world's energy supplies. The strangehold of the Muslim oil rich nations has to be nullified before the fascists can turn their attention to their other enemies,the rest of the world's "untermenschen",that includes India.No wonder then that the Saudi Monarchy,promoters of global wahaabi terrorism have as their closest bum-chums and business partners ,the Bush family.For India to expect "equality" in all its dealing with the US (especially at this moment with the travails of our lady diplomat,incarcerated by the US establishment), is a fantasy and a fiction that is just beginning to unravel.

Xcpts from:http://www.rationalrevolution.net/war/a ... _europ.htm

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 22 Dec 2013 09:58

Muppallaji,
Rajivs assassination was the turning point in 1991.Are you saying that things did not change in 1991?

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 22 Dec 2013 09:59

.....From today's print edition of Asian Age:
"In the US, a 27-page booklet, issued by the US department of state, give the American interpretation of the two conventions and their implementation. The representatives of foreign government may be entitled to some degree of immunity under international law, accounting to the US interpretation. Diplomatic immunity is not afforded to all employees of foreign governments".......
--------------------------------------------
Kenop,

Even if it is discretionary, the question is why it was used in this way in the particular case of khobragade. There was absolutely no need for that level of vicious vindictiveness... She was by no means trafficking, nor in significant deviance from established practice - apparently on both sides. Yet she was given the treatment accorded to petty criminals, completely at odds with what the US has often done for diplomats of several other countries in recent years for far more serious crimes than embroilment in a payment dispute....

If a clear message of reciprocity is not sent in the absence of an apology and detailed explanation as well as restitution, India will definitely pay a disproportionate long term price for that lack of meaningful action on our part in response to what has occurred.

There is no need for a close relationship with a country that is unable to distinguish between its friends and foes. An coldly transactional one based wholly on commerce will do just fine.
-----------------------------------------

Oh and another rotfl nugget: while going through all this crap, the Americans appeared to have overlooked the little inconvenient fact that Devyani is a "Dalit"... It skews the whole trafficking debate as, if anything, Sangeetha as a Christian is far better socially positioned if not financially in the lineage hierarchy... So it comes down entirely to the wealth issue. Americans have been "victims of oredisposition" again it looks like. Wasn't there an Eagles song by that name? There should have been. If anyone has really engaged in trafficking here it is the US embassy where officials should be held culpable for aiding an absconder... Let's hope those involved are either not Americans or have full diplomatic immunity.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 22 Dec 2013 10:00

seems DK's husband is a PIO and a wine expert who is helping the indian govt popularize indian wines abroad . he hails from michigan and has a small family owned winery there. teaches philosophy now in univ of pennsylvania. he has written a book on indian wines in 2006.

per TOI today the "deal" could be she gets immunity so long as posted in UN job. but if her stint ends and she leaves US, the charges will come into play and will be declared absconder.would face arrest again if entering US as a non-diplomat.

if her husband is unwilling to relocate away from US, her only two options are get a permanent UN posting from GOI or else live away from husband. if husband is willing to move elsewhere that is another option.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 22 Dec 2013 10:01

More one sided drivel from the western media. Amazing how much power these folks have and they have used desi mouthpieces to give credence

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 734879.cms

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 22 Dec 2013 10:04

svenkat wrote:Humiliating an Indian diplomat is not an ordinary decision.Whatever be the merits or lack of it in DK,the decision was signed off by Kerrorist.The buck stops with him.And the bigger Uncle Tom is Nisha Desai-Biswal.

Here is an alternate explanation: India ops has been downgraded from Secretary of State level to "Human Rights Handler" (Urza Zeya) level in the FoggyBottom dept.

The reason for this is obvious. The GOI has been so pliable off late that they dont need a big gun like Sec. of State to "handle" India.

When you behave like a Normal self-respecting person only a crazy person would try to use you like a doormat, but when you behave like a low self-esteem doormat, even normal people will use you like a doormat. That seems to be what happened here.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 22 Dec 2013 10:06

Devyani's father accuses maid of being 'CIA mole'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahome/in ... z2oB329Rpj
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Sources in New York told Mail Today that Richard was "unusually curious during her stay with Devyani in the US", but no one wants to say anything beyond it.

Many in diplomatic circles say while Khobragade, who worked at the Indian consulate in New York, wasn't handling high value information that could have been sought by a foreign intelligence agency, what is important is that she was staying at the Indian mission in the UN that houses residential apartments of Indian diplomats posted in the Indian consulate and Indian mission to the UN.

Many say Richard could have been "a live bug planted inside the residential building of India's mission to the UN".

In the light of the NSA bugging revelations, it is believed that the Indian mission to the UN and the diplomatic mission in Washington DC were clear targets for the US and the US authorities wanted to extract vital information from all channels.

Sangeeta's "links with a senior US diplomat" - and the fact that her mother still works for another US diplomat - could have made it easier for the American authorities.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 22 Dec 2013 10:08

Karan M wrote:Only thing I can say is that 2014 is not far away Muppalla ji and a new Govt may follow. Indian youth & the popular Indian zeitgeist are a funny thing. If in the next 8 years (hopefully), India booms economically, governance improves, you'll see far less accommodation of Khan/western mental constructs. People will still ape them, but there will be a subtle shift towards national pride, and hence unwillingness to automatically swallow whatever is dished out by the NYT/Ekhanomist types and their NRI/PIO reps.

One independent act (1998 Nuke tests) resulted in three created acts in succession (Kargil, Kandhahar and Parl). If the government changes in India it has to be ready for such things. India is swamped with moles but humanint and digitalint. The rot is too deep ( as written in a book "Iron fences...." by Arun Shourie) and the challenges are massive.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 22 Dec 2013 10:10

2+2=5
Scary how the meme is created. Also it totally trivializes real human trafficking where children and women are shipped across for sex and as illegals to help out in farms and meat factories. The real sin is that these guys are reducing the connotation of human trafficking

http://qz.com/160242/the-us-india-row-i ... afficking/

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 22 Dec 2013 10:11

A number of folks on this board, specifically those who are ostensibly on the US side, seem to be confused and not able to differentiate between relationship areas between the two countries that are beneficial and fruitful and those which are not

I would actually break down areas of interaction into 3 categories. (1) Areas where interaction between India and the US is highly welcome & synergies between the two countries obvious (2) areas where relationship between the two countries is to be strictly on the basis of reciprocity. Any step taken by the US side will invite corresponding tit-for-tat from India & (3) certain areas where India should cut off all interaction with the US, and keep them far away with much more than a bargepole, if possible.

Category (1) would include:

- Private business to private business commercial links between the US and India
- STEM University / Institute to STEM university collaboration between India and the US

Category (2) areas which would be based on strict reciprocity:

- Government to government relationship between the two countries
- Social Science research collaboration between the two countries (any social science research from a US univ that crosses the line into anti-India propaganda should invite 'social science research' from the Indian side with corresponding output)
- Media to Media relationships between the two countries (anti-India stereotyping in US media to invite corresponding measures influencing the Indian public)...
- Any relationship between defense and intelligence organizations of the countries

Category (3) areas where there needs to be zero interaction

- Relationships between the vast bulk of Christian evangelical organizations whose policies are inimical to Indian religious values and Indian outfits
- NGO-type organizations with links to left-wing causes

The current case is a government-to-government dispute arising primarily from the lack of faith and procedure followed from the US side. Ergo, the Indian government needs to take all required reciprocal actions so that the US clearly understands the importance of following the agreed procedure with India in the future - and such incidents are never again repeated.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 22 Dec 2013 10:12

svenkat wrote:Muppallaji,
Rajivs assassination was the turning point in 1991.Are you saying that things did not change in 1991?

It all started after the fall of USSR and India needing IMF loan extremely badly.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 22 Dec 2013 10:14

>>>in the next 8 years (hopefully), India booms economically, governance improves, you'll see far less accommodation

There should be zero accommodation now. GoI did not start this mess, nor Devyani. It is cap and rollback time for the US. They can do it in a way that saves face no problem.

Trouble is there is no one in the relevant US bodies right now to quietly say "we ****** up on this one", let's set it straight people.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 22 Dec 2013 10:17

This is the third time an Indian diplomat has been hit - Prabhu Dayal, Nina Malhotra and now Devyani.
Perhaps it is better to get a worker from Mexico. You can pay minimum wages and get hard work. The Indians are so desperate to stay that they will throw their own countrymen under the bus.
What is hilarious is the precedent it is going to set. Many more T-visas.
What is tragic is that real trafficking where the victim cannot walk away (trapped/ locked/ starved) will be lost in this morass.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 22 Dec 2013 10:18

Jarita wrote:2+2=5
Scary how the meme is created. Also it totally trivializes real human trafficking where children and women are shipped across for sex and as illegals to help out in farms and meat factories. The real sin is that these guys are reducing the connotation of human trafficking

http://qz.com/160242/the-us-india-row-i ... afficking/

Exactly. If you are going after trafficking they should go after the Russian/Irish/Eastern European mafia rings (for illegal immigrants and "white-slave" trade). Or go after the Mexican cartels. DK and India are weak and easy targets. This is precisely why this seems like such a weak and shady case. Almost seems like this has been standard operating procedures for maids to immigrate to the US.

More importantly, its the birth of a stereotype. Another stick to beat Indians with, which will be used by the motley crew of NGO, RNIs and other assorted house slaves and their white masters.

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 22 Dec 2013 10:20

Irrelevant point and rank speculation deleted. There is no data point about conduct of DK's husband either ways and there is no need to manufacture one. Unless proven otherwise, his personal life and conduct is not germane to the discussion. Mind it. - rohitvats

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 22 Dec 2013 10:20

svenkat wrote:Humiliating an Indian diplomat is not an ordinary decision.Whatever be the merits or lack of it in DK,the decision was signed off by Kerrorist.The buck stops with him. And the bigger Uncle Tom is Nisha Desai-Biswal.

That's why I get alarmed if an American of Indian origin/extraction assumes a high position in the GotUS because they want to or have to display their MUTUness. TSP which was positively perturbed after some of these elevations must be relieved now with these unexpected and advantageous consequences. Their efforts to limit and damage the growing India-US relationship have been accomplished through the MUTU Indians.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 22 Dec 2013 10:25

SSridhar wrote:That's why I get alarmed if an American of Indian origin/extraction assumes a high position in the GotUS because they want to or have to display their MUTUness. TSP which was positively perturbed after some of these elevations must be relieved now with these unexpected and advantageous consequences. Their efforts to limit and damage the growing India-US relationship has been accomplished through the MUTU Indians.

Some years ago when I used to stand in the "non-immigrant" line in the US airport point of entry, I noticed ~~three~~ four kinds of border patrol officers (aka immigration officers) {I think I forgot to count in the midst of all this

}
1) White and good hearted towards everyone , white or brown --> quite a lot of them
2) White and racists against non whites --> a few
3) Non white and extremely racist against non whites --> 99 out of 100
4) Non white and good hearted towards everyone --> 1 out of 100.

This is where I learned the true nature of a MUTU brown sepoy. It was a shock to me when I started to discover them in India and an even bigger shock to discover that they are quite literally all over our elite structures.

kenop · Post by **kenop** » 22 Dec 2013 10:28

Regarding the US interpretation of the Vienna Convention, it just shows the massive ego of the US policy.
Being a signatory to the convention and yet applying another interpretation has come to my notice now. Being a common man, it would not have made any difference until this episode came to the headlines.
The reciprocity is for "other stuff" which are not rights (being defined under the conventions for diplomats and consulars) but maybe considered as extra courtesies.
All I see is that the goose is cooked as far a law is concerned. So far we have not heard of the legal preparations from the GOI side.
At the diplomatic level there may be some possibility of a reversal (like Dr. DK being declared persona non grata for closure). No guarantees through.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Dec 2013 10:33

JE Menon wrote:>>>in the next 8 years (hopefully), India booms economically, governance improves, you'll see far less accommodation

There should be zero accommodation now. GoI did not start this mess, nor Devyani. It is cap and rollback time for the US. They can do it in a way that saves face no problem.

Trouble is there is no one in the relevant US bodies right now to quietly say "we ****** up on this one", let's set it straight people.

Very true JEM. In the mid 90s when Robin Raphael went on a rampage against India, Sen Daniel Patrick Moniyan the former US ambassador called up Bill Clinton and reined the attack dogs.

Looks like no one cares or has the insight to call up the White House and ask whats going on?

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 22 Dec 2013 10:34

1) White and good hearted towards everyone , white or brown --> quite a lot of them
2) White and racists against non whites --> a few
3) Non white and extremely racist against non whites --> 99 out of 100
4) Non white and good hearted towards everyone --> 1 out of 100.

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 22 Dec 2013 10:37

I wonder if DK's arrest is payback as well for the recent Indian "diplomatic win" at the WTO. Reaction: go after an Indian diplomat and prove to the world that Indian diplomacy is weak.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 22 Dec 2013 10:37

This incident has contributed heavily to eroding the goodwill that was building up in India for the Americans after the justifiably hostile attitude towards them for decades in the period between the 50s and the early 90s. Though, not completely out of the woods, the relationship was positively bounding along rapidly, periodic plateaus notwithstanding, even to the discomfort of many who could not accept the US as a reliable partner. Past instances of disrespect such as towards Abdul Kalaam or George Fernandez or Meera Shankar were even brushed aside. But, this one incident where the US has gone to enormous extent to humiliate India (yes, that is how this is viewed) is really hurting the relationship whatever one may say otherwise.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 22 Dec 2013 10:41

A_Gupta wrote:You have already convicted DK? These are allegations from a lame-ass prosecutor.

Would that be US Attorney Bharara? If so, he may not be the above. If he is really then president Obama is not a very good judge of people which I suspect is not the case.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 22 Dec 2013 10:41

Devyani may get pre-trial waiver

In what could be an indication that behind-the scenes discussions with the United States are beginning to yield results, Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade, charged with visa fraud, is likely to get a waiver from attending the pre-trial process on Monday.

While a proper confirmation is yet to be received, sources said the feedback on the matter has been positive. For India, this is important because Khobragade would have had to be subjected to another round of medical tests and fingerprinting as per US pre-trial procedures.

This was first done on December 16, and South Block had felt that repeating it would mean further humiliation for the diplomat. But more importantly, the two sides appeared to agree that these procedures would only provide more opportunities for negative publicity, thereby reducing the space for finding a resolution.

It is learnt that Khobragade's application for a G-1 visa and a fresh diplomatic identity card, to which she is entitled after being transferred to India's Permanent Mission at the UN General Assembly, reached the State Department on Friday. With US offices set to close for Christmas, Indian officials are urging their US counterparts to get an early decision.

While this may provide full diplomatic immunity to Khobragade, the Indian side wants the US to ensure that it also applies to the present case. But this may be a tall order, and the State Department may want to legally examine this aspect, the sources said.

The other problem for the Indian side is that there are some 14 other Indian diplomats in the US with domestic helps. The MEA is pushing to have them immediately declared "service staff" of the government, so that the US authorities and volunteer organisations cannot target them for salary anomalies based on the minimum wage in that area. In fact, in the long term, the MEA wants short-term government contracts for domestic helps.

However, the finance ministry has problems with such a long-term solution. North Block has argued that this could some day prompt demands for turning these contracts into permanent government employment.

The other option being suggested is that MEA be allowed to do bulk hiring and post these persons in missions. Another alternative is to hire local help, but that will be costlier.

Reliable sources said some other options too have been suggested, but a final call will be taken after detailed discussions among ministries.

Meanwhile, other problems loom as the December 23 deadline for US consulate staff to return their diplomatic identity cards draws closer. This is also the day when import restrictions will kick in for US diplomatic staff, affecting food and grocery imports.

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 22 Dec 2013 10:45

In Times Now,fmr US Ambassador to NATO, Kurt Volker acknowledged US had handled it badly.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 22 Dec 2013 10:46

^^^ Volker of the Volker report which seemingly has Mafia queens name

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 22 Dec 2013 10:47

It's a question of how the US wants to deal with this. We will observe and we will remember.

We have done the US or it's diplomats no harm as far as I know.

It's not a matter of a crime being investigated, which would be fine and Indian diplomats have faced the music on both sides in the past on that - without hackles being raised. We get it.

Here, however, a deliberate and closely calibrated multiple-agency operation was executed to publicly demonstrate, in the worst way possible from an Indian point of view (the humiliation of a mother of two and a representative of the Indian state), the powerlessness of India in the face of such an act.

The US needs to explain why this happened and undo it. This will be extremely harmful to relations otherwise.

KrishnaK · Post by **KrishnaK** » 22 Dec 2013 10:49

LokeshC wrote:If they know you as a person then sure, it wont be genuine hatred or dislike. The issue is when they dont know you. That is when assumptions come into picture and when they would go "Ahh, I read somewhere that Indians are known for this...... etc etc". Now when there is a slight evidence of trafficking, they wont even think twice when they are in the jury. (I have seen this happen to native Americans, also do read the post by g.sarkar a few pages back on another perspective).

Americans have their prejudices just like Indians do. I do not find them particularly different on that account.

Let me give you a hypothetical. You have a newborn in your house and your parents come visit you for a few months. People might suspect that you are "trafficking them", they might be more inclined to. When you are in good terms, they wont bring it up. But when things go south with them (lets say there is a civil case with someone) They will dig into each and every detail with you to throw whatever dirt they can on you. Stereotypes play a big big role there.

There is quite a bit of angst about outsourcing and the loss of american jobs, especially when the economy isn't doing so well. The same country has had an enormous amount of immigrant Indian success stories. Stories that are celebrated in the american their media as representative of their country. I appreciate that.

Bonded labor is a fact, I am not arguing with you there. But the way its painted to be an endemic problem with most "upper caste" Indians looking at it as if they are not concerned is patently false propaganda. There are quite a lot of concerned Indians who are doing all they can regardless of caste. There needs to be a balance in reporting such issues and I find that absent most of the time in the western press.

I don't think there is any imbalance in reporting about India. There will always be sensationalist news, because that sells.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 22 Dec 2013 10:50

Theo_Fidel wrote:
I agree. But deportation can only be initiated by a federal type. This is not a federal prosecutor going at DK. The prosecutor is going after DK for the things under his control. In fact I think it is the feds who retrieved DK and have lodged her in the UN.
Wheels within wheels. Consuls are not immune from local laws. I don't think it is clear at all that she is exempt from responsibilities for her personal actions.

That said DK should hire a good a defense attorney and attack the governments case. There is every chance that a trial will see her exonerated.

Well I thought State Dept is a Federal Dept and DSS is a federal setup. If it is a state initiative, would they be fine if NaMo takes the initiative in respect of Ahmadabad consular office. External Affairs if not the States prerogative esp when Diplomat and consular relations are involved.

Hiring Lawyer and fighting case is no option though if forced they may very well see reciprocity in action after sometime and forced to hire lawyer in India as well.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 22 Dec 2013 10:54

KrishnaK

I can only take a horse to the water, but I cannot make it drink.

I am not going to continue this any further (at this time, since its a tangent), but I will say this:

I have spent many years here in the US. Way more than I should probably. Wait till you hit a glass door and you WILL hit one if you are here long enough. Hopefully it wont be as painful as it was for me and it will give you a different perspective than what you have now.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 22 Dec 2013 11:06

KrishnaK wrote:There is quite a bit of angst about outsourcing and the loss of american jobs, especially when the economy isn't doing so well. The same country has had an enormous amount of immigrant Indian success stories. Stories that are celebrated in the american their media as representative of their country. I appreciate that.

KrishnaK, The glasses you use seem to be unusually rose-tinted...

Can you point me to any articles that link the large number of individual Indian success stories positively to Indian culture ? Whereas, if you were to do a search for articles that link the number of rapes in India to Indian culture, or Indian treatment of servants and 'traficking' to Indian culture and 'caste system' there would surely be innumerable ones.

I would like objective backing to your claim that there are equally positive and negative references to Indian culture in the American media.

KrishnaK · Post by **KrishnaK** » 22 Dec 2013 11:06

JE Menon wrote:It's a question of how the US wants to deal with this. We will observe and we will remember.

We have done the US or it's diplomats no harm as far as I know.

It's not a matter of a crime being investigated, which would be fine and Indian diplomats have faced the music on both sides in the past on that - without hackles being raised. We get it.

Here, however, a deliberate and closely calibrated multiple-agency operation was executed to publicly demonstrate, in the worst way possible from an Indian point of view (the humiliation of a mother of two and a representative of the Indian state), the powerlessness of India in the face of such an act.

The US needs to explain why this happened and undo it. This will be extremely harmful to relations otherwise.

Excellent post JEM. If the US values it relationship with India, this needs to be made right, because we will observe and we will remember.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 22 Dec 2013 11:07

Whats up with the Indian Diplomats and NY?

http://zeenews.india.com/exclusive/krit ... _3218.html

The Krittika Biswas case

Krittika Biswas, a high school student, handcuffed on February 8, 2011 and taken from school for alleged "cyber bullying". Spent 28 hrs in jail This happened even though she had diplomatic immunity, her dad Debashish Biswas was vice-consul in New York Then Indian consul general in NY as well as ambassador Meera Shankar intervened, but cops refused to free her

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 22 Dec 2013 11:08

LokeshC,

>>Wait till you hit a glass door and you WILL hit one if you are here long enough. Hopefully it wont be as painful as it was for me

This does not compute. It appears you may be conflating personal experience with general trend. In the US, there are Indians or Indian origin folk at virtually all levels of management in any industry they care to be in. The glass door, such as it is, does not stand in the way of Indians alone. We must endeavor to view the US precisely as it is...

Right now it has made what appears to be a tactical blunder concocted and calibrated at the middle to lower levels of a couple of bureaucracies. The idea is to engineer with appropriate intervention a full and satisfactory recovery.

It is in the two countries' mutual interest that we remain positively disposed towards each other.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 22 Dec 2013 11:10

matrimc wrote:
A_Gupta wrote:You have already convicted DK? These are allegations from a lame-ass prosecutor.
Would that be US Attorney Bharara? If so, he may not be the above. If he is really then president Obama is not a very good judge of people which I suspect is not the case.

I called him lame-ass because of the way he has handled this particular case. In particular, the statement his office issued justifying all that he had done sounded stupid.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 22 Dec 2013 11:12

As per Preet Bharara the Russians have diplomatic immunity and hence cannot be arrested - The Russian Medicaid Scam

http://abcnews.go.com/US/russian-diplom ... d=21110274