Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 22 Dec 2013 18:22

The extent of mobilization is nicely documented in this video - http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/ndtv-i ... o-featured

Vipin_Upadhyay · Post by **Vipin_Upadhyay** » 22 Dec 2013 19:03

Atri wrote:
That ij a bhery bhery tall order, saar.

The north indians in mumbai (referred to as "bhaiyyas") are also under modi wave. But will they vote for MNS candidate in case of seat-sharing?

We are fast approaching a point where votes of BJp and votes of Sena are diverging. Under critical mass until now but upward trending. I wonder how this will work-out.

I am a second generation "Bhaiyyaa" too

as per best of my knowledge, extended family & friends mostly upper castes all are Bhajapa & itching to vote for NaMo. UPwallas in Mumbai living here since more than 3-4 decades have reconciled with SS. Only Bihari ('Bhaiya' log) are tough nuts to crack & will probably never vote for MNS (blame it on stupidity displayed by MNS goons during Chath Pooja

).

That aside MNS+SS coming together in at least Loksabha is important for consolidation of core Maratha votes, this is not just for Mumbai but nearby Nashik, Pune ityadi where MNS going alone will dent total seat tally.

Also, RPI factions like Athavale (already with SS??), Prakash Ambedkar, Gavai etc. should be brought together under BJP+SS yuti. These RPI factions unnecessarily cut 25-30 lac votes that can decide 3-4 more seats.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 22 Dec 2013 19:35

Congress is in over drive mode in getting bills passed and sending messages to the people. its leaders and cadre will swaying into action to win. Their war room is hacking flaws and creating alliances. The serious business starts now.

I think modi ought to rope in Rajinikant for campaign. He will refuse but then get him to say the right words at the right time.

Shanmukh · Post by **Shanmukh** » 22 Dec 2013 19:35

Out of curiosity, did NaMo mention DK? Or in the course of corruption, did he mention Adarsh scam?

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 22 Dec 2013 19:36

One group of RPI is already on board. Unofficial talks on with Raj. BJP offering it's share of seats to Raj. Basic idea is to have ss, bjp, rpi and mns contesting together.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 22 Dec 2013 19:38

nageshks wrote:Out of curiosity, did NaMo mention DK? Or in the course of corruption, did he mention Adarsh scam?

No. I guess not. But no 100% sure.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 22 Dec 2013 20:05

I didn't realize until today that one of my friends from madrassa days, who is a research scientist now, is also one of the twitter-stars of NaMo brigade (some BRFites follow him as well). surprisingly enough, majority of my politically vocal friends from academia are modi supporters.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 22 Dec 2013 20:20

Let me guess you are not from jnu or du?

ashashi · Post by **ashashi** » 22 Dec 2013 20:20

bhargava wrote:^^Everyone might know..but repeating none the less

Opposite of pro is con
Opposite of progress is ??

Very good. Tweeted it without our permission.

member_23658 · Post by **member_23658** » 22 Dec 2013 20:21

Narayana Rao wrote:
nageshks wrote:Out of curiosity, did NaMo mention DK? Or in the course of corruption, did he mention Adarsh scam?
No. I guess not. But no 100% sure.

He mentioned the Adarsh scam. He said that Rahul Gandhi talks about ending corruption with an innocent face and the COngress gov in Maharastra refuses to punish the guilty in the Adarsh report, said "inki himmat to dekho" or something to that effect

member_23658 · Post by **member_23658** » 22 Dec 2013 20:48

Modiji should be more careful when he makes historical references because the adversaries are just waiting to pounce on any mistake. NDTV and IBN have articles where NCP is challenging the claim that Maharastra had 26 ministers according to Modi, they say it was only 17.
If you see the individuals that became chief ministers after Maharastra and Gujrat split, its only 17. However if you count all the times the CM was changed, it comes to 23. For eg Vilasrao Deshmukh gave up CMship to Shinde, and again became CM after SHinde went to the Center. Also Pawar saab has been there quite a few times.
If you add the 3 CMs that Maharastra had before Gujrat split from it in 1960, it becomes 26.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ch ... aharashtra

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 22 Dec 2013 21:00

Yup, admittedly the Mumbai speech lacked punch. 'cept when LBT was mentioned. Well, law of averages working, I guess. Happens. But MH is oh so terribly important.

Now, Hope NM takes on Odisha next. The Naveen types have grown fat and lazy sans any competent opposition only.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 22 Dec 2013 21:04

Vipin_Upadhyay wrote:Also, RPI factions like Athavale (already with SS??), Prakash Ambedkar, Gavai etc. should be brought together under BJP+SS yuti. These RPI factions unnecessarily cut 25-30 lac votes that can decide 3-4 more seats.

Prakash Ambedkar is a maoist sympathizer commie.. only Athavale faction supports yuti. aathavale longs for a rajyasabha seat for himself, nothing else..

Regarding BJP giving seats to MNS through their share, here are the bone of contention (one of the bones). If BJP comes to power, one of the first decisions it will take is carving out separate Vidarbha state and conduct elections in Vidarbha and rest of MH next september. BJP is pro-Vidarbha (so is NCP). These two parties will be the biggest beneficiaries of this partition. It is BJP all the way in Vidarbha like CG and MP. In rest of MH, NCP will emerge dominant player with BJP playing second fiddle. After pramod mahajan, BJP in MH is slowly beginning to find its root again and re-grow organically. They are firm in two districts of Marathwada region and are in competition as well as alliance with SS and MNS in MMR-Pune-Nashik region. rest its NCP-INC.

I wrote all this to demonstrate the division of powerful force which has spearheaded Hindutva for past 400 years.

Huge response to referendum on separate Vidarbha, Janmanch claims turnout 5L

An overwhelming YES for Vidarbha!

MNS: Don’t want Vidarbha state but okay to referendum

Now, accepting partition of MH is directly against asmita-politics of MNS and SS. The caste-based politics of NCP-INC won't suffer much because 96-clan Maratha caste is predominantly concentrated in western MH. The 96-clan Marathas of Vidarbha are not under Pawarful spell and like eastern "wood-elves" not as rich and bright as their western brethren.

So, a section of INC, Supriya Sule faction of NCP, SS, MNS, BJP (of rest of MH) are all eyeing for Non-96 clan Maratha votes - you can see the extent of competition. The 96-clan Marathas of western MH are firmly behind Ajit dada Pawar and his faction of NCP (post death of SP, NCP will vertically split along these lines).

Accepting partition of MH will be anathema to SS-MNS. And BJP has already upped the ante by successfully conducting a referendum 3 days ago. The demography of Mumbai and Pune has changed. The time of SS-MNS in national politics is about to end and Uddhav knows that. Raj is yet to accept that reality. The purpose of SS was to eliminate communists from western coast of India - something which they achieved spectacularly. They will hold on to MMR Municipal corporations (combined budget of around 50,000 crore rupees) and if possible Pune, Nashik and Aurangabad Municipal Corporations. That is why SS was designed in first place and in long run this is what will SS (and MNS) will limit itself to. Their job (in ideal world) is to hold the fort, do not let AAP like chutiyas spread in urban MH and assist BJP in center and play role of largest opposition coalition in state-assembly alongside BJP.

But it will take some time before they realize this. It will help if NM delivers his promise of federalization of India and gives more power to states and local bodies as he keeps on talking about. Until then, this understanding is unlikely to emerge.

Slowly but surely, india is moving towards presidential federal government structure. I fear this very thing about Vasundhara. IN federal structure, legislative arm (the electioneers and vote-winners) are separate from executive (CM, PM and cabinet). Administration, as it becomes more and more decentralized, will go on to become more and more specialized job. It will require smarter executives to tackle the babus and the red-tape (which has to drastically reduce its presence, if India is to stay united). Winning elections is slowly becoming a separate specialized branch of government as well.

Like Modi and Shivraj were sent as executives from top when keshubhai and Uma bharti were not performing, I fear the same for Vasundhara (who is a mass-leader but her acumen as executive is not quite up to the mark) and Raman singh (who is executive par excellence but his skill as mass-leader is shaky). At some point of time, this issue will have to be dealt with by BJP. They need to throw up a duo (or two teams) of mutually complementary mass-leaders and capable executives who know their boundaries and do not step on to each other's territory. A workable model has to come up.

History of Hindu-polity gives such examples. Maratha History is full of such "Duos". People like Modi arise only in special occasions and cannot be relied upon all the time.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 22 Dec 2013 21:24

One demographic team NM has clearly identified after youth is women... and they are turning out big time for NM, or so my chaiwalas say... Below pic from Mumbai.

BTW, it seems INC_NCP cut cable lines at a few places in Mumbai and some other towns... Losers acting like sore losers. NM makes particular mention of this point in his talk.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 22 Dec 2013 21:27

Hari Seldon wrote:Yup, admittedly the Mumbai speech lacked punch. 'cept when LBT was mentioned. Well, law of averages working, I guess. Happens. But MH is oh so terribly important.

that is because people of interior MH are not very good at Hindi. LBT is one burning issue for all small-time traders throughout MH and there was a huge aandolan earlier this year against LBT. I was personally happy that he mentioned it.

Shivaji etc are not election points for Marathi people. Shivaji is omnipresent in their thought-process. Yes, they will shout his Jayjay kar but won't vote for party who promises big-huge statue in arabian sea.

The problems of MH are economic, not ideological. Whatever BJP walas typically say from stage, they have been hearing it since childhood only (and their grandfathers childhood as well). Hence LBT caught the imagination of people. Second loudest resonance was to the issue of black-money. This is because in Marathwada and Vidarbha the network of Ramdev Baba is quite extensive. Very smart of NaMo to have spoken these issues. Lokpal issue did not find much traction in MH for precisely this reason. Anna himself is not looked upon very highly by Marathi people. He was novelty for Dilli walas but not here. State where highest number of RTI-activist murders take place (yes, in MH), Lokpal is at the most an innocuous non-issue.

Good-governance, 24-hour electricity and removal of taxes - these three issues will find biggest takers in MH. rest is rhetorics.

Again, what pleased me as usual was the tradition of playing and singing complete Vande Mataram (including the later hindutva-based non-sekoolar stanzas) continued even today.

I am personally more inclined towards NM's 5 january rally on fort Raigad. Udayanraje Bhosale (descendant of Shivaji and current ruler of Satara and leader of NCP) is sharing stage with NM along with Bhide Guruji. The crowd there will be at the most 50,000 to 100,000 but of vastly different mindset than a typical BJP-RSS volunteer. Udayanraje has been making overtures of joining the yuti, but he is a liability in long run. He however, will make an excellent spearhead to thrust BJP in heart of sugar-belt.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 22 Dec 2013 21:33

Atri wrote: History of Hindu-polity gives such examples. Maratha History is full of such "Duos". People like Modi arise only in special occasions and cannot be relied upon all the time.

So in the end, in real world, for the masses, Dvaita has to win, isnt it.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 22 Dec 2013 21:45

Sanku wrote:
Atri wrote: History of Hindu-polity gives such examples. Maratha History is full of such "Duos". People like Modi arise only in special occasions and cannot be relied upon all the time.
So in the end, in real world, for the masses, Dvaita has to win, isnt it.

Dvaita is essential on the scale of nagarsevak upwards. Very much essential for bigger states like MH, UP (25 seats + states).

As people education and awareness increase, their expectations rise too. So do many vectors. it becomes difficult for individuals to manage all those vectors and yet remain popular and win elections. Leads to botched up job OR WORST sellout like NiKu.

Sooner than later Indian polity will have to deal with this. BJP and parivar as a whole, is leading the way here - I am happy to note and report it here. India is at delicate cusp - this cusp has led to rise of Modi. While he is a good man, this cusp is not going to last. While cusp is in favor, the foundation of this kind of polity has to be laid and strengthened and built upon by the parivar.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 22 Dec 2013 21:58

Singha wrote:Let me guess you are not from jnu or du?

one of the DST research institutes. believe me, I am surprised. because most of these people are bongs who would be bleeding mao in another era.

subhamoy.das wrote:Rally after rally what is coming out is that troops are highly motivated and DISCIPLIED. This happens when the leadership is very strong and there is a sure sense of victory among the troops. This level of motivation surpasses ABV. Organizational strength of BJP is coming out nicely

do you really want to highlight your own wrong spelling by capslocking it ?

Shanmukh · Post by **Shanmukh** » 22 Dec 2013 22:02

Rahul M wrote: one of the DST research institutes. believe me, I am surprised. because most of these people are bongs who would be bleeding mao in another era.

Rahul-ji,
There seems to be a huge change coming in Bengal. Most of my old Bengali friends from IISc are voting BJP. Two of them are actually going back to Bengal to campaign for BJP and NaMo - both in Kolkata. I never thought I would see Bengalis changing the Lal Topi for the Saffron shawl

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 22 Dec 2013 22:03

Atriji,
very good posts.What is MMR? Is that Brahanmumbai mahanagar palika?

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 22 Dec 2013 22:11

svenkat wrote:What is MMR? Is that Brahanmumbai mahanagar palika?

MMR is Mumbai metropolitan Region - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumbai_Metropolitan_Region

It is conglomerate of 8 municipal corporations.

1. BMC (Brihanmumbai MC)
2. Thane
3. New-Mumbai
4. Kalyan-Dombivali
5. Vasai-Virar
6. Mira-Bhayandar
7. Ulhasnagar
8. Bhiwandi-Nizampur

And 9 municipalities

1. Alibag
2. Ambernath
3. Karjat
4. Khopoli
5. Kulgaon Badlapur
6. Matheran
7. Panvel
8. Pen
9. Uran

This entire region is popularly known as "Mumbai" in public narrative. This is the stronghold of Shivsena and hence BJP (by alliance).

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 22 Dec 2013 22:17

Thanks.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 22 Dec 2013 22:27

nageshks wrote:
Rahul M wrote: one of the DST research institutes. believe me, I am surprised. because most of these people are bongs who would be bleeding mao in another era.
Rahul-ji,
There seems to be a huge change coming in Bengal. Most of my old Bengali friends from IISc are voting BJP. Two of them are actually going back to Bengal to campaign for BJP and NaMo - both in Kolkata. I never thought I would see Bengalis changing the Lal Topi for the Saffron shawl

I can't call it huge, yet. but there is definitely a wave of change.

btw, b-ji always predicted that bengal would go from red to saffron !

NikhilB · Post by **NikhilB** » 22 Dec 2013 22:37

Atri wrote:
I am personally more inclined towards NM's 5 january rally on fort Raigad. Udayanraje Bhosale (descendant of Shivaji and current ruler of Satara and leader of NCP) is sharing stage with NM along with Bhide Guruji.

Atri ji - are you sure about this rally ? I searched this earlier on NaMo's agenda and could not verify. I am really planning to attend this with my friends, but really wanted to know if this is confirmed ?

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 22 Dec 2013 22:52

NikhilB wrote:Atri ji - are you sure about this rally ? I searched this earlier on NaMo's agenda and could not verify. I am really planning to attend this with my friends, but really wanted to know if this is confirmed ?

its happening, as far as I know..

a news from Sakal few days ago...

Santosh · Post by **Santosh** » 23 Dec 2013 00:57

So how big was the show of strength? 6-8 Lakhs?

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 23 Dec 2013 04:42

Santosh wrote:So how big was the show of strength? 6-8 Lakhs?

Police say it is 3+lakhs.
Source undie tv

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 23 Dec 2013 05:05

Atri wrote:MMR is Mumbai metropolitan Region - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumbai_Metropolitan_Region

It is conglomerate of 8 municipal corporations.
...
And 9 municipalities
...
This entire region is popularly known as "Mumbai" in public narrative. This is the stronghold of Shivsena and hence BJP (by alliance).

That is gigantic - ~~could it be possibly the largest such area in the world? I am sure it would be if population is the metric.~~ There are bigger ones - Tokyo is by far the biggest such area - figures considering the pop. density of Japan.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 23 Dec 2013 05:27

Prof. Akash Singh Rathore, husband of Dr. DK, seems to be teaching at UPenn - the home of the pair husband-wife Prof. Kaul and Prof. Loomba who were instrumental in uninviting CM Modi for the Wharton Indian Student Association keynote speech. Was this professor duo also involved in DK affair by any chance? A long shot CT, but one never knows (I had the privilege of showing this husband-wife professor duo the door at some other place in the past). Could Ms. Zeya be connected to these two as well in throwing mud at Modi on that fake "progrom" excuse?

vivek.rao · Post by **vivek.rao** » 23 Dec 2013 05:48

^^ I don't recall his name being associated with any of that UPenn stuff

LakshO · Post by **LakshO** » 23 Dec 2013 06:25

krisna wrote:
Santosh wrote:So how big was the show of strength? 6-8 Lakhs?
Police say it is 3+lakhs.
Source undie tv

Good show by NaMo/BJP

They have hit the right chords with the masses over CongI's corruption & malfeasance

NaMo/BJP seem to perfected the art of crowd management, to hold election rallies with lakhs in attendance, incident free.

How about this be made part of some case study in Pol Sci or MBA course or IAS/IPS academy

The advantage is that the processes become institutionalized that can benefit the country when special events (Kumbh mela, Shabarimala pilgrimage, Vaishno devi etc).

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 23 Dec 2013 07:55

vivek.rao wrote:^^ I don't recall his name being associated with any of that UPenn stuff

Whose name? The couple are profs at UPenn. Prof. Rathore is commuting between NY and UPenn (according the news item).

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 23 Dec 2013 08:01

the three worthies behind that scam were
Assistant Professor Toorjo Ghosh, Catherine Bryson Professor of English Ania Loomba and AM Rosenthal Professor of English Suvir Kaul

I failed to find that petition online anywhere to know the list of 135 signatories and later claimed as 250 . would have been good to id the others.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 23 Dec 2013 09:22

Another myopic, caste card puts West UP back into play for the sekular forces... deja vu only....

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 23 Dec 2013 09:51

Singha wrote:the three worthies behind that scam were
Assistant Professor Toorjo Ghosh, Catherine Bryson Professor of English Ania Loomba and AM Rosenthal Professor of English Suvir Kaul

I failed to find that petition online anywhere to know the list of 135 signatories and later claimed as 250 . would have been good to id the others.

Singha ji,
Already done once by me , below.

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 4#p1419494

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 23 Dec 2013 11:19

the problem is modi is neither charles darwin nor karl marx for these sociologists.. heck, how can an unclassified guy (after proven by people and courts that modi is not even ultranationalist) get accepted by sociology experts?

these penn guys have been fed by korropt kola-angrez.. and how can you expect them to turn against their masters?

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 23 Dec 2013 13:37

matrimc wrote:Prof. Akash Singh Rathore, husband of Dr. DK, seems to be teaching at UPenn - the home of the pair husband-wife Prof. Kaul and Prof. Loomba who were instrumental in uninviting CM Modi for the Wharton Indian Student Association keynote speech. Was this professor duo also involved in DK affair by any chance? A long shot CT, but one never knows (I had the privilege of showing this husband-wife professor duo the door at some other place in the past). Could Ms. Zeya be connected to these two as well in throwing mud at Modi on that fake "progrom" excuse?

The Safe Horizon NGO who was instrumental in 'helping Richard' gets most funds from 'oak foundation' who funds 'human rights law network' in jharkhand. This org is working to deal with untouchability may be even colluding with Maoists and conversion activities.

The address registered to safe horizon NGO same as the address in this letter http://www.endslaveryandtrafficking.org ... NAL)-1.pdf

See the list of co signees. Dalit freedom network along with some churches and of course World Vision.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 23 Dec 2013 15:51

MAJOR BREAKING NEWS

Jayakanth TL ‏@jkanthtl: Kerala Christian Orthodox Church declares support to @narendramodi

Still unclear which Church exactly. But it means a major reorientation of Kerala politics. It also means that the "secular" fort of "enlightened" Hindus, Muslims, Christians and (West-sponsored) Dalitist "neo-Buddhists" has been breached.

I believe it is an autocephalous church in Kerala.

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 23 Dec 2013 16:24

^^ Isn't that Syrian Catholic church whose patron saint is St. Anthony of defence?

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 23 Dec 2013 16:29

http://www.rediff.com/news/report/why-s ... 131222.htm

Haji Akhil Shaikh is an angry man. He is angry not at the Bharatiya Janata Party’s prime ministerial candidate Narendra Modi for him being “anti-Muslim”. He is angry at his fellow brothers who, he says, “Follow Islam just for the sake of it and without practising the teachings of the Prophet (peace be with him) in true spirit.”

A resident of Saki Naka, a Mumbai suburb, Shaikh has been a staunch supporter of the Bharatiya Janata Party since 2006. In fact, he had come alone, to hear the Gujarat chief minister outline his agenda for development and progress of India.

“Don’t scare us with Godhra and its aftermath. Don’t scare us of Modi. Why should any Muslim be scared of him? Why should any Muslim be scared of anybody in India if he loves his country as much as the person next door?” he blurts out a volley of rhetorical questions when asked if Muslims will be treated badly if Modi becomes the prime minister of India.

He is quick to point out a number of riots that took place in India when the Congress was in power at the centre as well as states like Maharashtra, Gujarat, Bihar and other states.

“Somewhere, I feel that Muslims are following their religion only in the name. A true Muslim fears nobody except the Almighty,” he says.

Shaikh holds the Congress squarely responsible for the plight of Muslims and all those who profess to be the friends of the community, including his own religious leaders, who peddle influence for monetary gains with the powers that be.

“Rotten apples are every where. They are present in the Muslim community also. But just because Modi’s star are in ascendance it is wrong to come and preach to us that we will be reduced to second class citizens under his rule,” he argues.

He says that efforts are being made in his locality to scare Muslims into voting for the Congress by raising the Narendra Modi-bogey.

“To know a person, you must first know what the person is,” he says in support of Modi. “If he proves our fears right we will stop supporting him. But, at least, give him a chance. How can we judge somebody without knowing him first,” he says about the allergy of many Muslims towards the BJP and Modi.

“Stop inciting two brothers (Hindus and Muslims) to take arms against each other,” he warns those tendencies that foment communal violence.

“If you think only Hindus kill Muslims or vice versa, come with me. I will show you 10 cases in Hindu as well as Muslim families where brothers are thirsty for each other’s blood for money, property or various other reasons,” he says.

He believes that if Modi becomes the prime minister, he will prove everybody wrong about his antipathy towards the Muslims.

“I will vote for the BJP and Modi for sure in the Lok Sabha elections. I am not afraid of Modi and nor should any Muslim be if he is following Islam sincerely,” he reiterates his views when asked who will he vote for.

“However, one never knows if Modi will become the prime minister even if the BJP comes to power. Yeh gandi sisyasat hai (This is dirty politics),” he says pointing towards opposition to Modi within his own party.

“But for me I want Modi to be the next PM.”