India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Mahesh_R · Post by **Mahesh_R** » 23 Dec 2013 13:19

ramana wrote:A few pages ago I too said to close the NY consulate as there is a local law problem. In return shut the Hyd consulate down.

Ramana garu..agreed but don't you think it impacts us as well to get H1/H4/L1/B1 visa's...we have tough time to get a visa apt and if we close hyd consulate then it becomes difficult for Chennai consulate to manage..

rajanb wrote:@Karan M

That is why the
only where suitable and required by us.

Rajanb...recently i read an article where Brazil which was almost ready to sign the papers for massa's toys backed out after it came to know abt the NSA snooping...and went to Gripen...
they didn't reverse the decision even after kerry personally went and met the president n B'mama personally calling and request to revert...
there are ALWAYS options..its ONLY what you want to see and choose from ....

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 23 Dec 2013 13:21

matrimc wrote:All said and done, when push comes to a shove, I will back US which is my country now but certainly fight for India above every other second country. That is how things are going to pan out for me on a personal plane.

Appreciate it. At the end of the day I wouldn't trust a person with dual allegiance with national interests. Yes, its a generalization but it is a generalization that needs to be made. Even Chanakya made the same point. With a husband and kids with US citizenship, DK already had one foot in the US boat. We need strict laws to stop such people from reaching influential positions. I understand it might be a touchy issue here in BRF as many members are US citizens or are on the way to becoming one, but its not some thing we can shy away from.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 23 Dec 2013 13:24

rajanb wrote:@Karan M

That is why the
only where suitable and required by us.

Sir during the NDA time, hard lessons learnt meant that we went to extreme lengths to protect ourselves, eg imports had to be made all sanction proof etc. MMS reversed this policy and made us into full blown acquirers. now the only way to combat that effect is to be more careful as you said, and also to rapidly generate economic growth to the level that we are too big to needlessly antagonize.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 23 Dec 2013 13:36

How many maids can get Green cards in USA through Normal channel while working on Work Visa?? Heck , how many of them can even get Visa after the grueling interview with Visa Officers? This episode is not that of wage related issues but Green card chasing Maid and Maid chasers. This desire is exploited by US agencies to recruit them springing the trap at opportune time. (My CT) .

US has been unilaterally changing the components of wages. Even when diplomat pays handsome salary, the monetary component remains below their wage limit. Then they insist that local laws do apply contrary to what India has been insisting. This is just to ensure that they fall within the zone, where it could be termed a violation of their laws, and then say VC does not apply. They tried this on two previous occasions and perhaps timed it badly. Therefore they have perfected the timings in clock work fashion while succeeding in uniting IFS body against them. Even then this does not explain the manner of arrest and custodial rape by USG. DK must have done something , which was so against their interest, to attract such humiliation. If she was interested in Green card herself ( she can not apply as long as she is in IFS) she would have been more circumspect. Could it be possible that they tried to recruit her and she rebuffed?

Also, transfers on request by USG shows how much Politicians and higher babuz are compromised. Cleaning of stable is very much required.

There is no concept of reciprocity for politicians and higher ups except quid pro quo for personal gains.

Mahesh_R · Post by **Mahesh_R** » 23 Dec 2013 14:20

Jindal Vs Clinton 2016 Pres...

Guru's ...who could be a better Pres wrt relations with India...
We have see clinton's pov on many issues...any idea abt Jindal saab ???

saumitra_j · Post by **saumitra_j** » 23 Dec 2013 14:21

I have a feeling that Om baba is the MMS of the US, given how fast he is pi$$ing off the American allies - now even Israel joins the list

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 23 Dec 2013 14:38

Karan M wrote:Sir during the NDA time, hard lessons learnt meant that we went to extreme lengths to protect ourselves, eg imports had to be made all sanction proof etc. MMS reversed this policy and made us into full blown acquirers. now the only way to combat that effect is to be more careful as you said, and also to rapidly generate economic growth to the level that we are too big to needlessly antagonize.

Memories are short , NDA faced the major burn from US Sanction and Diplomatic pressure and learnt the lesson the hard way , so even procurement from UK like Hawk was stripped of US components

Come UPA and Short time memory loss took the form of long term memory loss and we were back to business as usual ......considering every new regime comes with change in babus so even babudom resistance based on bad experience is lost.

Long Story Short we never seem to learn.

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 23 Dec 2013 14:41

Jindal = Hindu hating Uncle Tom

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 23 Dec 2013 14:54

SBajwa wrote:
by A_Gupta
Devil and deep blue sea. It was the Republican-nominated Supreme Court justices that in 2012 made strip search without reasonable cause the law of the land.
Because Islamic terrorists were hiding RDX in their orifices to bomb civilians! Only a Democrat state department will use this "tool" for diplomatic reasons.

At this case Democratic party will implement Sharia law here in USA in less than 20 years!

No, you are quite wrong. The case in front of the Supreme Court involved an African American gentleman, who had paid a parking ticket. But the city misrecorded it, and issued an arrest warrant. When our hero was arrested, he even showed the officer the receipt proving that he had paid the parking ticket. He was arrested nonetheless, held for a week in jail, and subjected to two strip searches during that time. His case went up to the Supreme Court, and they were fine with what happened. Their ruling says, we will not second-guess the arresting authorities, we trust them to have good reason to do whatever they do.

Prior to the Supreme Court ruling, the US Marshal Service rules said you had to have a reasonable suspicion that the prisoner being strip searched was carrying contraband or weapons, or was a escape, security or suicide risk. Which covers the case of Islamic terrorists.

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 23 Dec 2013 15:34

Mahesh_R wrote:Jindal Vs Clinton 2016 Pres...

Guru's ...who could be a better Pres wrt relations with India...
We have see clinton's pov on many issues...any idea abt Jindal saab ???

Jindal will be a MUTU. At least Clinton's position on India related matters is known.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 23 Dec 2013 15:35

Austin wrote:Memories are short , NDA faced the major burn from US Sanction and Diplomatic pressure and learnt the lesson the hard way , so even procurement from UK like Hawk was stripped of US components

Come UPA and Short time memory loss took the form of long term memory loss and we were back to business as usual ......considering every new regime comes with change in babus so even babudom resistance based on bad experience is lost.

Long Story Short we never seem to learn.

yeah. but it was not memory loss, but agenda driven. UPA was dominated by left and "liberal" groups who regarded any hard security policy as against indian "culture".

UPA reversed pretty much every prosecurity policy NDA took

- POTA dropped (bunch of attacks throughout india)
- go slow on defence modernisation only few big ticket deals signed for all iz well (cold start remains hobbled)
- internal security apparatus thoroughly politicized (and results seen in 26/11 and other attacks)
- appeasement with pak (constant attacks on indian sec forces)
- full blown acquisitions policy with US as payment for n-deal (who knows what that will bring)
- all sorts of shady NGOs full blown operations in India causing communal issues between hitherto coexisting groups

basically the real fools are the indian public who with this going on, returned INC to power in 2009. the recent diplomatic case is just tip of the iceberg in terms of the mess we are in.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 23 Dec 2013 15:41

People who cannot be admitted to the US:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1182

Except as otherwise provided in this chapter, aliens who are inadmissible under the following paragraphs are ineligible to receive visas and ineligible to be admitted to the United States:
...
...
(H) (i) In general Any alien who commits or conspires to commit human trafficking offenses in the United States or outside the United States, or who the consular officer, the Secretary of Homeland Security, the Secretary of State, or the Attorney General knows or has reason to believe is or has been a knowing aider, abettor, assister, conspirator, or colluder with such a trafficker in severe forms of trafficking in persons, as defined in the section 7102 of title 22, is inadmissible.

Section 7102: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/22/7102

(9) Severe forms of trafficking in persons
The term “severe forms of trafficking in persons” means—
(A) sex trafficking in which a commercial sex act is induced by force, fraud, or coercion, or in which the person induced to perform such act has not attained 18 years of age; or
(B) the recruitment, harboring, transportation, provision, or obtaining of a person for labor or services, through the use of force, fraud, or coercion for the purpose of subjection to involuntary servitude, peonage, debt bondage, or slavery.

Question: I hope DK has been charged with visa fraud, not with human trafficking? The T-visa is for human trafficking, is it not.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 23 Dec 2013 15:46

I believe this is the current law governing A-3 visas:
http://www.state.gov/j/tip/laws/113178.htm

c) Protection From Removal During Legal Actions Against Former Employers-

(1) REMAINING IN THE UNITED STATES TO SEEK LEGAL REDRESS-

(A) EFFECT OF COMPLAINT FILING- Except as provided in subparagraph (B), if a nonimmigrant holding an A-3 visa or a G-5 visa working in the United States files a civil action under section 1595 of title 18, United States Code, or a civil action regarding a violation of any of the terms contained in the contract or violation of any other Federal, State, or local law in the United States governing the terms and conditions of employment of the nonimmigrant that are associated with acts covered by such section, the Attorney General and the Secretary of Homeland Security shall permit the nonimmigrant to remain legally in the United States for time sufficient to fully and effectively participate in all legal proceedings related to such action.

There is no civil action against DK, is there?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 23 Dec 2013 17:58

Mahesh_R wrote:Jindal Vs Clinton 2016 Pres...

Guru's ...who could be a better Pres wrt relations with India...
We have see clinton's pov on many issues...any idea abt Jindal saab ???

I am not a guru but would still venture to answer you.

Simply, nobody. The Americans (American Indians, Indian Americans, American Americans and others) are extremely focussed on realpolitik and know, especially in these tough times when their influence all over the world is sliding, that they have to play it even more than ever before. So, their actions will be completely self-centered, as before, and indeed there is absolutely no need that it should be otherwise too. We should learn to be like them if we need to succeed.

If there is one category that could be potentially more harmful to Indian interests, that could be Indian Americans in high GotUS positions because of their MUTUness. Jindal falls into that category. So, we should be relatively better off with Hillary.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 23 Dec 2013 18:20

This democrats vs republicans discussion is good as an academic exercise, and there might be some pointers. However, when the rubber meets the road the White House and sundry will work for the interest of USA. So it should. Indian PMO, Cabinet and sundry should work for the interests of India. Diplomacy is the art when countries compromise to achieve partial goals in the short term. For, the full set of goals are achieved never or over a very long term.

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 23 Dec 2013 18:48

Deans wrote:
Mahesh_R wrote:Jindal Vs Clinton 2016 Pres...

Guru's ...who could be a better Pres wrt relations with India...
We have see clinton's pov on many issues...any idea abt Jindal saab ???
Jindal will be a MUTU. At least Clinton's position on India related matters is known.

white washing of bobby jindal

The example of Jindal demonstrates the pressure to capitulate for the sake of political ambition. Jindal couldn't change his color, but he converted his religion to become less different from the dominant white Christians of his party. His personal narrative amplifies his conversion to Roman Catholicism, even though he was raised Hindu by immigrant parents who were very active leaders in the local Hindu temple in Louisiana. He feels no qualms in making statements hurtful to the sentiments of the community from which he derives his "minority" card. In a piece some years ago, he said when asked about his conversion: "the motivation behind my conversion, however, was my belief in one, objectively true faith (Christianity). If Christianity is merely one of many equally valid religions, then the sacrifices I made, including the loss of my family's peace, were senseless". Presumably the conversion of his Hindu Punjabi wife to Roman Catholicism some years later occurred by her having coincidentally the exact same epiphany as he did.

Kati · Post by **Kati** » 23 Dec 2013 18:58

Very good article:

http://www.indiafacts.co.in/the-politic ... aid-wages/

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 23 Dec 2013 19:17

Another good piece

Indian diplomat row: The actions of US reflect a questionable motive

The arrest of Devyani Khobragade, the Indian Deputy Consul General, has the elements of a Ridley Scott movie. Conspiracy theories, hidden agendas, duplicitous actors, mystery; it has it all. The actions of the US under the garb of standard procedure reflect either a questionable motive or
overzealousness. That mystery remains unsolved.

Whatever the motive, the mistreatment of a State representative isn’t a light matter. The usually ‘soft’ Indian State shed its timidity and responded like a classical great power.

The fallout of this unwarranted episode will adversely impact the growing India-US relations. It could have been avoided. Before the situation had snowballed, the US should have been gracious enough to admit that it had dealt with a routine problem with insensitivity and rendered an unconditional apology. Well, Washington is not known for its grace.

There are two questions that have to be answered to understand how wrong the US was. First, did Khobragade as a consular officer had not have the right to be treated differently from a dangerous criminal? Second, were the procedure of arrest, identification, detention of the consular officer necessary and proportionate to the perceived threat to the good order of the US?

The US, from the start, has contended that there was no bar on her arrest as she lacked diplomatic immunity.

Of the two international Conventions which grant privileges and immunity to the representatives of foreign nations, only the Vienna Convention on Consular relations 1963 (VCCR) is applicable to her. On the other hand, the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations 1961 (VCDR) vide Article 31, gives diplomats complete immunity.

Consular officers, on the other hand, have only functional immunity. It means that a consular officer has complete immunity from the jurisdiction of the receiving State, only for those acts performed in the exercise of their consular functions (Article 43). But does this mean that arresting Khobragade was the only way to serve the interests of justice? Article 41 of the VCCR is clear that a consular officer shall not be liable for arrest or detention pending trial, except in the case of grave offences and pursuant to a decision by the competent judicial authority.

The term grave offence has not been defined in the convention. The US courts have interpreted felony (a crime regarded in the US and many other judicial systems as more serious than a misdemeanour) to mean grave crimes. A felony may include offences ranging from a flaw in visa documentation to acts of terrorism. However, to resort to pre-trial arrest for an alleged visa misrepresentation, equating it for this purpose, with instances of graver crimes, like those connected with terrorism is irrational, an instance of non-application of mind and against the spirit of the VCCR.

The International Law Commission had warned against the implications of a pre-trial arrest as they hamper the functioning of the consulate and harm the interest of both the receiving and the sending States. Article 40 also casts a duty on the receiving State to treat consular officers with due respect and prevent attacks on their person, freedom or dignity. Therefore, the US should have shown restraint and treated her with dignity which the VCCR requires.

Second, was the procedure followed not disproportionate to the gravity of the offence? What was sought to be achieved by handcuffing a lady consular official in public view, strip searching her, subjecting her to cavity search and holding her along with drug dealers is beyond comprehension. It was simply high-handedness. There was no threat of Khobragade absconding or resisting arrest. In fact, the strip searches have been subject to constitutional challenges in the US itself.

Ironically, whenever US personnel posted in US Consulates or embassies have had brushes with the law, Washington has resorted to double standards. It has even interpreted the principle of functional immunity to ludicrous levels.

When Douglas Kent, the US Consul General in Vladivostok, in an accident while driving his personal car from a gym crippled a Russian, the victim was unable to get compensation. The US Embassy in Moscow claimed full immunity and the injured was denied compensation on the ground that the US official was acting within the scope of his employment. The Embassy even prevented Kent from being subjected to a blood alcohol test as the State Department “prohibits Foreign Service officers from being injected with a needle by a foreign official.”

In another instance, when an allegedly drunk US Marine attached to the US Embassy in Bucharest drove on the wrong side and killed a well-known Romanian pop star, he was spirited out of the country.

But the most interesting case is that of Raymond Davis, a CIA operative, who had shot and killed two Pakistanis. The US claimed full diplomatic immunity for him though the State Department had even said that the person involved in the killing was not Raymond Davis and later went to say that he was a “staff member for the United States Consulate in Lahore.” John Kerry flew to Pakistan for the release of Davis and President Barack Obama too lent his weight to it. The US went to the extent of cancelling trips as well as threatening to freeze monetary assistance to Pakistan if he was not freed.

This is not the first time that the US has acted highhandedly. In the last four years alone, former Indian ambassador to the US Meera Shankar, India’s former envoy to the United Nations Hardeep Puri and Krittika Biswas, daughter of a consulate officer have been mistreated.

It is time that the US sheds its double standards. Diplomatic and consular relations work on the principle of reciprocity. In India even the US consular officers were given special diplomatic status. Failure to treat Indian representatives with respect will only jeopardise the prospects of India-US relations which Obama has said would be “the defining partnership of the 21st century.” Washington should act with dignity, drop charges, apologise and move on.

George Thomas is from National Law School, Bangalore and writes on legal matters
The views expressed by the author are personal

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 23 Dec 2013 19:24

Kati wrote:Very good article:

http://www.indiafacts.co.in/the-politic ... aid-wages/

Unbelievable...!!

47 Million Americans earn below the $12,000 per annum odd poverty benchmark of the US, and yet the minimum wage to be paid to maids is set at $48K ! The US screws its own below-poverty-line population by ensuring that nobody can employ them for menial household work...and expects all foreign diplomats to also act as co-conspirators in this same exploitation. Ridiculous !

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 23 Dec 2013 19:25

And the issue is not something new. It is mostly creation of USG to which Indian diplomats fell victim . USG refuses to follow obligations under VCCR and keeps instituting new rules creating new loopholes and traps for diplomats. The reason , why USG gets away with this nefarious practice , is that they insist higher than thou status for themselves and get it. They have not tested what reciprocity is except during cold war period and that too in USSR.

They create situation where such incidents are on the rise.
Fleeing maids nothing new for Indian diplomats in US

Press Trust Of India : Washington, Mon Dec 23 2013, 16:44 hrs

A day before Ambassador Meera Shankar was to return home after completing her tenure in the US in the summer of 2011, her maid, without informing anyone, left her official residence on the outskirts of the city never to return.

The highly-secretive Indian Embassy in Washington hushed up the matter from the media and is believed to have registered a formal complaint with police and the State Department, in addition to cancelling the maid's official passport.

The woman domestic worker, who served the Ambassador quite well during her tenure of more than two years in Washington, is still untraceable and believed to be living illegally in the US.

And she is not the only Indian maid - officially called "India-Based Domestic Assistant" - to have fled from the homes of senior Indian diplomats in the past few years.

Sources familiar with such incidents said, strictly on condition of anonymity, that the number of such maids or India-Based Domestic Assistants (IBDAs) from the Indian Embassy in Washington – one of the largest Indian diplomatic missions - could be at least a dozen in the past decade.

Not only maids, but security guards brought from India too are believed to have fled, mostly towards the end of their tenure.

The Indian Embassy did not respond to questions on the number of IBDAs currently with staff at its diplomatic posts in the US, including the embassy in Washington and consulates in New York, San Francisco, Houston, Atlanta and Chicago.

In 2012, the US issued a total of 54 A-3 visas, which are the ones for IBDAs or maids, to Indian diplomats. In all, as many as 1,141 A-3 visas were issued last year, while 749 applications were rejected.

A-3 visas are for the domestic help of diplomats and foreign officials who are in the US on A-1 and A-2 visas.

According to official figures made available by the State Department, the US issued A-3 visas for 32 Indian domestic workers in 2011, 50 in 2010, 60 in 2009, 38 in 2008, 35 in 2007, 40 in 2006, 60 in 2005, 55 in 2004 and 47 in 2003.

Over the past 10 years, the US issued more than 470 A-3 visas to Indian domestic workers.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 23 Dec 2013 20:33

I don't understand the recommendation of closing all the consulates? Shouldn't it be just easier to not bring any maid?

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 23 Dec 2013 20:46

Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade in White House petition against charges

Experts have questioned decision of US govt to arrest Devyani Khobragade on visa fraud case...."There appears to be no question that the government acted legally, but there is a very big distinction between acting under the collar of your authority and doing what as a matter of foreign relations and common goods sense is wise," Stephen Vladeck, professor at the American University College of law, told the NBC news in an interview.

"The treatment of the arrested Indian deputy consul general in New York was abominable. The Indian official is correct that, even with unfriendly countries, such actions are outrageous," said M Gordon Jones, a former US foreign service official who was posted in New Delhi in 1990s.....The US Marshals Service should be investigated and, if the abuses are confirmed, the officials involved should be severely disciplined," Jones wrote to The Washington Post.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 23 Dec 2013 20:55

Arjun wrote:
Kati wrote:Very good article:

http://www.indiafacts.co.in/the-politic ... aid-wages/
Unbelievable...!!

47 Million Americans earn below the $12,000 per annum odd poverty benchmark of the US, and yet the minimum wage to be paid to maids is set at $48K ! The US screws its own below-poverty-line population by ensuring that nobody can employ them for menial household work...and expects all foreign diplomats to also act as co-conspirators in this same exploitation. Ridiculous !

I think the reason for that is overtime ( over 40 hours/week ) has to be paid at 1.5 of the hourly rate. If live in maid wakes up 6AM in the morning and goes to bed at 10PM in the night, that is 16 hours a day, so you can do the calculation.

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 23 Dec 2013 20:57

Dipanker wrote:I don't understand the recommendation of closing all the consulates? Shouldn't it be just easier to not bring any maid?

You have obviously not been paying attention. The last time something like this happened, it was a diplomat's daughter, Krittika Biswas, who was wrongly arrested for "cyber bullying". No apology was given even after it was found out that the "crime" was committed by some other student and neither was any action taken against said student. The suspicion is that NYC is hostile to Indian diplomats for some reason.

It's as easy for an Indian diplomat not to bring maids to NYC as it is for an American diplomat to do without subsidized American cheese and beer in Delhi. These little perks are given to each other in the spirit of getting along as they should. After all, what does "diplomacy" stand for?

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 23 Dec 2013 20:59

Dipanker wrote: I think the reason for that is overtime ( over 40 hours/week ) has to be paid at 1.5 of the hourly rate. If live in maid wakes up 6AM in the morning and goes to bed at 10PM in the night, that is 16 hours a day, so you can do the calculation.

Yeah, but said calculation should also figure the cost of room and board in the center of NYC and such little perks no?

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 23 Dec 2013 21:04

Dipanker wrote:I don't understand the recommendation of closing all the consulates? Shouldn't it be just easier to not bring any maid?

Actually its easier to just say yes massa, no massa, whenever US wags its little finger.

And roll in the mud to follow up.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 23 Dec 2013 21:06

Diplomat Devyani Khobragade row: US embassy paid for Devyani Khobragade maid's family's air tickets

The US embassy had paid for the air tickets for three family members of the absconding maid of senior Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade when they were "evacuated" from here to New York last week, it emerged on Monday.

The tickets for the maid's husband Philip Richard and their two children--Jennifer and Jatin-- were issued by the official travel agency of the US embassy, sources said.

The tickets were exempt from service tax of 4.50% as per the norm for diplomatic missions, the sources said.

The maid's family flew by Air India on December 10, two days before Khobragade was arrested on a charge of paying her maid-- Sangeeta Richard--less then the minimum wages under the US law.

India had reacted angrily to the manner in which the family had been taken out of India by the US embassy despite Khobragade's complaint in Delhi on July 5 against the family for willful deceit and attempt to cheat to illegally immigrate to the US by wrongful means.

However, the US Prosecutor Preet Bharara had defended the "evacuation" of the family saying that the legal process was started in India against the maid, "attempting to silence her, and attempts were made to compel her to return to India".

He also alleged that "the victim's (Sangeeta) family reportedly was confronted in numerous ways regarding this case....This office and the Justice Department are compelled to make sure that victims, witnesses and their families are safe and secure while cases are pending".

No immediate response was forthcoming from the US embassy on their payment for the air tickets. An email query to the embassy spokesman remained unanswered

Well that official agent needs to be taken to task as well.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 23 Dec 2013 21:17

Victor wrote:
Dipanker wrote:I don't understand the recommendation of closing all the consulates? Shouldn't it be just easier to not bring any maid?
You have obviously not been paying attention. The last time something like this happened, it was a diplomat's daughter, Krittika Biswas, who was wrongly arrested for "cyber bullying". No apology was given even after it was found out that the "crime" was committed by some other student and neither was any action taken against said student. The suspicion is that NYC is hostile to Indian diplomats for some reason.

You are making a wrong assumption, I am very much aware of this incidence. Her email account was hacked by her classmate that is how she landed in trouble. My sympathy is definitely with her.

It's as easy for an Indian diplomat not to bring maids to NYC as it is for an American diplomat to do without subsidized American cheese and beer in Delhi. These little perks are given to each other in the spirit of getting along as they should. After all, what does "diplomacy" stand for?

IMO this is a bogus argument. Just because obsequious Indian govt./bureaucrats are willing to bend over backwards to please the gora sahebs they become entitled to similar treatment by others.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 23 Dec 2013 21:18

Sanku wrote:
Dipanker wrote:I don't understand the recommendation of closing all the consulates? Shouldn't it be just easier to not bring any maid?
Actually its easier to just say yes massa, no massa, whenever US wags its little finger.

And roll in the mud to follow up.

No we should close all consulates just because our IFS officiers can't bring along maids.

Or as some wise Roman said "In Rome do as Roman does".

Madhusudhan · Post by **Madhusudhan** » 23 Dec 2013 21:49

Smuggling Indian citizens away with T-Visas..... Disgusting behavior from the state department. If India had spine, it would do something bigger like giving Snowden asylum.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 23 Dec 2013 21:55

Dipanker wrote:

No we should close all consulates just because our IFS officiers can't bring along maids.

Or as some wise Roman said "In Rome do as Roman does".

Yes, we should close our consulates till us realizes that just because they are sick barbarians that does not mean that their standards will be applied on GoI emissaries.

If US wants US gunga dins instead of INDIAN officials living the way they see right under international laws, there is no need to maintain relationship with such boors and hicks.

----------------

The way the above will be done, will be to tell the yahoos posted in Delhi embassy to live the way Indians do. We will apply our way of life and laws to them, and if they dont like it, we will rape them in Tihar.

Then, we shall see who speaks about "when in Rome".

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 23 Dec 2013 21:58

The closure of consulates etc., are just talk-shop. There will never ever be any action, by babucracy to self curtail the size and reduce staff. The best that can happen is it would just shift to other locations but it will grow. Reduction in size of the government is anathema to power brokers, especially more so to babus.

The maid business is little touchy. Even if maids etc., are working only 12 hours a day, the rest of the time they might be free, but without access to family etc. In India unless they specifically choose orphans who have no others to claim as family to serve the diplomats, they will have access to socialize.

The dichotomy is the diplomats believe that their postings in US should be nothing more than fairyland disney trips, while for the maids it is more like military postings, unless maids become part of the diplomats family. If maids are part of diplomats family then they could be brought along as family members.

If diplomats think that they could bring along their families with them, then maids see what they are missing. They do not have their immediate family available to them. Tough luck, it is a spartan military posting for the maids. But for the diplomats it is fairyland posting. This dichotomy leads to maids jumping ship at earliest opportunity.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 23 Dec 2013 22:00

The maids aren't blind to the fact that they're going to be alone, are they? Then what relevance does this have?

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 23 Dec 2013 22:03

The relevance, is their is no point complaining when there is opportunity to jump ship by hook or crook, it will happen. Why wail and breast beat about that. It is the nature of business.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 23 Dec 2013 22:20

Victor wrote:
Dipanker wrote: I think the reason for that is overtime ( over 40 hours/week ) has to be paid at 1.5 of the hourly rate. If live in maid wakes up 6AM in the morning and goes to bed at 10PM in the night, that is 16 hours a day, so you can do the calculation.
Yeah, but said calculation should also figure the cost of room and board in the center of NYC and such little perks no?

In March 2011, the US authorities said none of room, board, health care, travel can be counted in this calculation.

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 23 Dec 2013 22:21

Well, the point is the diplomats have enough confidence to trust their young children without supervision to the maids. But once the relationships sour, that the maids jump ship, then diplomats cry foul. Demonizing them, while trusting them with children and other more intimate dealings, doesn't sit well. This is where the introspection would kick in, why it happens and how to prevent it. But babus are hung up on one side of the coin.

The military does it relatively better.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 23 Dec 2013 22:27

http://m.state.gov/md113178.htm
Per US regulations, the employer must leave passport and visa in the possession of the A-3 visa employee at all times.

GOI canceling Ms Richard's passport, in that sense, played into the claim of DK's wrongdoing.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 23 Dec 2013 22:30

JwalaMukhi wrote:The relevance, is their is no point complaining when there is opportunity to jump ship by hook or crook, it will happen. Why wail and breast beat about that. It is the nature of business.

The "jump ship" part I am fine with. Damaging someone's (of some nation's) reputation by making unfounded allegations is not fine.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 23 Dec 2013 22:31

Sanku wrote: Yes, we should close our consulates till us realizes that just because they are sick barbarians that does not mean that their standards will be applied on GoI emissaries.

If US wants US gunga dins instead of INDIAN officials living the way they see right under international laws, there is no need to maintain relationship with such boors and hicks.

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I am sorry to say but you just being too emotional in your response, please try to think it out and see if you arrive at the same conclusion. Closing all consulates over the the need of our IFS officers
to bring along maid servant does not serve Indian interests.

The way the above will be done, will be to tell the yahoos posted in Delhi embassy to live the way Indians do. We will apply our way of life and laws to them, and if they dont like it, we will rape them in Tihar.

Now I don't expect this to happen anytime soon as long as we have corrupt political system, politicians, and bureaucrats.

Then, we shall see who speaks about "when in Rome".

Precisely the point.

Madhusudhan · Post by **Madhusudhan** » 23 Dec 2013 22:36

Lessons to be learned:
- Huffing & Puffing, throwing a fit and doing a few superficial things does not help
- Retaliation should be quiet, effective and disproportionate (such as giving asylum to a high profile figure)
- When dealing with US, use legalistic behavior. Counter sue, file lawsuit on state department for contempt of court, smuggling Indian citizens, etc.