India-US Strategic News and Discussion

saip · Post by **saip** » 24 Dec 2013 02:11

The affair seems to be winding down. UN approved her transfer and now it is for State Dept and the court has given her a waiver from attending pre trial hearings. Next US will declare her persona non grata and expel her and India would do the same for a US low level diplomat.

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 24 Dec 2013 02:13

Theo_Fidel wrote:... and for once BRF being behind the curve could not figure out GOI would back down and leave them up the creek without paddle. So digging hole deeper continues unabated.

Your could have asked any NRI/PIO who has been in USA for some time. It is not hard to figure out how GOI would pan out. Esp. when it is clearly in the wrong as here.

No point in writing to lecturer sahib, because he is blocking me. Where he comes up with this BS of "GOI would back down" is unknown to me. Quoting someone on FB:

49 Russian diplomats & family scammed US of $1.5 Mn in medicaid. But they suddenly got "immunity". One Indian consular officer who underpaid her nanny is arrested, stripped, cavity searched.

Only India is ever in the wrong in the India-US relationship to lecturer sahib, the great desh bhakt that he is. Good specimen for EJ analysis, albeit the more educated kind.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 24 Dec 2013 02:14

need to check all US diplomat travel plans, hotel stays, and who is paying all the transactions and fees. what free services they are getting etc. this is a cancer or parasitic instiution to retain the setup. all under scratchback mode ops.

saip · Post by **saip** » 24 Dec 2013 02:15

Was there an outstanding warrant against Sangeetha Richard's husband or just a case was filed?

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 24 Dec 2013 02:18

saip wrote:Was there an outstanding warrant against Sangeetha Richard's husband or just a case was filed?

{Note: I've not captured the events preceding 20 September but the photo captions have earlier dates}
9/20: Delhi High Court passes an interim injuction restraining the maid from filing any case against Devyani in a foreign court
11/19: Delhi court issues a non-bailable warrant against the maid
12/06: Delhi court forwards the warrant to US embassy on Dec 6, asking it to arrest the maid and ensure her repatriation
12/10: The maid's husband and two children flew to the US, which now says that they were granted visa to ensure their protection
12/12: Devyani Khobragade is arrested in the US for violating US laws

Source: Deccan Chronicle: India hopeful of early resolution of diplomatic row
Look for the image captions in the photo gallery below.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 24 Dec 2013 02:20

saip wrote:Was there an outstanding warrant against Sangeetha Richard's husband or just a case was filed?

Exactly. Which brings me back to two earlier suppositions
- Did DK or her dad piss someone off in Dilli? They are not exactly crystal clean
- Did Sangeeta Richards husband get harassed because of the wifes actions? If so, it becomes a chase of intimidation and can be used to justify US action in spiriting them away

Dk's fathers actions post Sangeeta Richards complaints to Dk may have hurt DK more than anything else. You can no longer act as a local feudal lord and bully the relatives of a person you are pissed off with.

Truly India is the victim here. There is a collection of vile Indian personas involved.

KrishnaK · Post by **KrishnaK** » 24 Dec 2013 02:21

Dipanker wrote: No we should close all consulates just because our IFS officiers can't bring along maids. Or as some wise Roman said "In Rome do as Roman does".

I do agree with just giving up maids. How many Indians live in the US who have full time maids ? Plenty of us work well more than 40 hours a week AND either manage completely without a maid or for a few hours a month.

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 24 Dec 2013 02:26

For what it's worth:

Whitehouse petition from Indian Americans: Immediately drop all charges against Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 24 Dec 2013 02:27

This is very damning. It is DK's father all the way

http://m.outlookindia.com/article.aspx/ ... BK742kTNUY

Sangeeta Richard’s husband Phillip in a petition to Delhi HC

”The treatment of Sangeeta by Devyani Khobragade is tantamount to keeping a person in slavery-like conditions or keeping a person in bondage.”
”Even though the contract stipulated that Sunday would be an off-day she worked from 6 am to 11 pm, minus 2 hours for church even on Sunday. She worked from 6 am to 11 pm on Saturday as well.”
“Uttam Khobragade called Sangeeta’s family several times and threatened them that they would have to face dire consequences if she complains and that he would ruin their future, get them abducted and frame false charges of drugs against them.”
”At the immigration office, Devyani falsely accused Sangeeta of theft, in front of the US Immigration Officer. Sangeeta asked what it was she had stolen. Devyani could not say and threatened her saying that she will come to know when she returns home.”

Sangeeta’s daughter Jennifer to “[email protected]” in July

”My mother used to sound unhappy whenever she talked to us on phone.She asked Devyani to send her back to India but Devyani refused her request.”
“Uttam Khobragade forced police to come to our house at night around 11 pm. There were 5 policemen. From that day onwards police has started calling my father, my brother and me as well... He said to my father that he would destroy our future and not let my father continue with his job anymore.”
”We no more feel safe in our own house because of the phone calls we are getting and the words that Uttam Khobragade has said to my father. We really need your help to get out of all this trouble. It is like a mental torture on my family. PLEASE HELP US.”

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 24 Dec 2013 02:33

The US could have just as easily have gained assurance from the Indian government that Khobragade would be subjected to appropriate disciplinary measures in India and let her leave the country within 24 hours lest she is arrested for violating US laws. She was not afforded this courtesy. I'm quite sure American citizen consular employees in India would be afforded this courtesy. Of course, the US wouldn't follow up with any disciplinary measures if the tables were turned.

The US could have still evacuated the whole Richard family for their safety if they were so concerned.

There is no doubt that there is US showboating going on here.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 24 Dec 2013 02:43

PratikDas wrote:The US could have just as easily have gained assurance from the Indian government that Khobragade would be subjected to appropriate disciplinary measures in India and let her leave the country within 24 hours lest she is arrested for violating US laws. She was not afforded this courtesy. I'm quite sure American citizen consular employees in India would be afforded this courtesy. Of course, the US wouldn't follow up with any disciplinary measures if the tables were turned.

The US could have still evacuated the whole Richard family for their safety if they were so concerned.

There is no doubt that there is US showboating going on here.

Warning was given by State Dept. in September, she had plenty of time to leave (Instead she choose to get an arrest warrant from some Delhi Magistrate to arrest SR and her husband in October).

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 24 Dec 2013 02:45

PrakitDas,

No I don’t block you. Most times your comments make sense.

Russia & USA are declared enemies. India is a friend.

DK would have probably been better off committing a white collar crime. The fact that another person was involved escalated her situation. The whole situation has been marinating for 6 months plus. It was IFS incompetence not to transfer her home immediately. She was compromised. Or at least move her to an immunity work post. India would have taken a ‘corruption’ hit like Russia does at these incidences, but keep in mind Russia is not cultivating a friendship with USA.
--------------------------------------

Here is what reuters says FWIW.
http://in.reuters.com/article/2013/12/2 ... FS20131220

December 11, 2013 - Preet Bahara, U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York, files a criminal complaint against Khobragade with a federal magistrate court judge on one count of visa fraud and one count of making a false statement. If convicted on both counts, Khobragade faces a maximum of 15 years in prison. December 12, 2013 - Sometime between 9 a.m. and 9:30 a.m. local time, Khobragade is approached by U.S. State Department Diplomatic Security Service agents near her children's school on Manhattan's East Side. "Ms. Khobragade was accorded courtesies well beyond what other defendants, most of whom are American citizens, are accorded," Bharara said in a statement released late on December 18. "She was not, as has been incorrectly reported, arrested in front of her children. The agents arrested her in the most discreet way possible, and unlike most defendants, she was not then handcuffed or restrained. In fact, the arresting officers did not even seize her phone as they normally would have. Instead, they offered her the opportunity to make numerous calls to arrange personal matters and contact whomever she needed, including allowing her to arrange for child care. This lasted approximately two hours. Because it was cold outside, the agents let her make those calls from their car and even brought her coffee and offered to get her food."

After being transported to the U.S. District Court building in downtown Manhattan, Khobragade is turned over to U.S. Marshals Service personnel, and strip-searched and placed in a holding cell in the courthouse.

Bharara, in the December 18 statement, said that Khobragade "was fully searched by a female Deputy Marshal - in a private setting - when she was brought into the U.S. Marshals' custody, but this is standard practice for every defendant, rich or poor, American or not, in order to make sure that no prisoner keeps anything on his person that could harm anyone, including himself. This is in the interests of everyone's safety."

Yes it appears DK was detained by the DSS but then entered a nebulous phase.

Technically she was asked to accompany the officers down to the station. Once arrested she would not have been allowed even to use a phone. She was only arrested when the US Marshals took her into custody, strip search, etc. This maybe what is causing the news services to post conflicting data.

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 24 Dec 2013 02:45

Dipanker wrote:
PratikDas wrote:The US could have just as easily have gained assurance from the Indian government that Khobragade would be subjected to appropriate disciplinary measures in India and let her leave the country within 24 hours lest she is arrested for violating US laws. She was not afforded this courtesy. I'm quite sure American citizen consular employees in India would be afforded this courtesy. Of course, the US wouldn't follow up with any disciplinary measures if the tables were turned.

The US could have still evacuated the whole Richard family for their safety if they were so concerned.

There is no doubt that there is US showboating going on here.
Warning was given by State Dept. in September, she had plenty of time to leave (Instead she choose to get an arrest warrant from some Delhi Magistrate to arrest SR and her husband in October).

Can you clarify if the warning was specifically about her being arrested or about the working conditions of her maid?

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 24 Dec 2013 02:48

According to the MEA, they were intimated about possible legal proceedings starting against DK. To that, the MEA responded that they had not provided any help whatsoever on the missing person and not executing the warrant issued in india against Richard.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 24 Dec 2013 02:50

PratikDas wrote:For what it's worth:

Whitehouse petition from Indian Americans: Immediately drop all charges against Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade

There is a sum total of 450, well now 451 signatures on that.

That in itself tells you what NRI types think.

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 24 Dec 2013 02:50

49 Russian diplomats & family scammed US of $1.5 Mn in medicaid. But they suddenly got "immunity". One Indian consular officer who underpaid her nanny is arrested, stripped, cavity searched.

Theo_Fidel wrote:PrakitDas,

No I don’t block you. Most times your comments make sense.

Russia & USA are declared enemies. India is a friend.

Which makes it all the more flabbergasting that 49 enemy diplomats and family were granted immunity but the one wrongful diplomat of the friendly country got cavity searched because, as US citizens keep reminding everyone, US laws "are laws" [which apply to friends but not enemies?]

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 24 Dec 2013 02:50

Theo_Fidel wrote:
PratikDas wrote:For what it's worth:

Whitehouse petition from Indian Americans: Immediately drop all charges against Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade
There is a sum total of 450, well now 451 signatures on that.

That in itself tells you what NRI types think.

Because not enough people know about it. Even people on this thread didn't know about it.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 24 Dec 2013 02:52

PratikDas wrote: Can you clarify if the warning was specifically about her being arrested or about the working conditions of her maid?

Warning was about her being prosecuted, a hint to get out in time.

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 24 Dec 2013 02:57

Dipanker wrote:
PratikDas wrote: Can you clarify if the warning was specifically about her being arrested or about the working conditions of her maid?
Warning was about her being prosecuted, a hint to get out in time.

I see. Thank you and Prasad for clarifying. I guess she made the mistake of assuming Indian laws meant something.

9/20: Delhi High Court passes an interim injuction restraining the maid from filing any case against Devyani in a foreign court
11/19: Delhi court issues a non-bailable warrant against the maid
12/06: Delhi court forwards the warrant to US embassy on Dec 6, asking it to arrest the maid and ensure her repatriation
12/10: The maid's husband and two children flew to the US, which now says that they were granted visa to ensure their protection
12/12: Devyani Khobragade is arrested in the US for violating US laws

Note that no charges had been pressed against DK by 6 December, when India had intimated the US embassy about legal proceedings involving Ms. Richard.

US laws "are laws". Indian laws are timepass?

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 24 Dec 2013 02:58

The immunity was arranged by the Russian authorities before USA could act.
India had 6 months to change DK’s work classification. Why was IFS eating pindi channa?
Nothing prevented India from doing the same.

NRI know about this case but India’s position is impossible to defend.
100,000 signatures would be nothing if NRI set their mind to it.
A CEO of a $200 million company asked me about it last week.
There was nothing I could say.
If you notice that is when I first posted about this case to back down as India interests are being affected.
NRI has uniformly told people not to get emotional about USA relationship.

This is how TSP gets into trouble.

Only thing that matters is our interests.
As a nation we need to display more toughness and less emotion.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 24 Dec 2013 03:01

sivab wrote:
Theo_Fidel wrote:AFAIK DK was being paid ~ $80,000 per year + allowances. While low for NYcity it is a good USA wage for a consul. There is no way actual SR wages can relate to this.

BTW it doesn't matter if GOI or DK engages a maid. They both will have to pay to local wage levels. Else no visa.
Any source? If not you are just trolling.

UN retail price index is currently 89 in New Delhi while its 100 for New York.

As an IFS bureaucrats salary is pegged to UN RPI when posted abroad (with housing etc taken care of by govt always) then if DK is making 80,000 USD + allowances = 50 lakhs per annum + allowances then the same bureaucrat will make 45 lakhs per annum + allowances in Nai Dilli.

Now expect the same silently slithering back maneuver as shown by another gent who put up a baseless claims that DK applied for a Green card from Massa.

Madhusudhan · Post by **Madhusudhan** » 24 Dec 2013 03:02

I have a slight problem with the petition the way it is worded. I'm not sure I can say all charges need to be dropped, not having access to all the information. Let them file the charges and let the real truth come out in court. I just have a problem with the way a representative of India was disrespected by the US State Dept and Law Enforcement. I just have a problem with the way guys like Preet Bharara showed their utter contempt for the Indian state and judiciary. The charges themselves are the least of the problems in my view.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 24 Dec 2013 03:09

PratikDas wrote: I see. Thank you and Prasad for clarifying. I guess she made the mistake of assuming Indian laws meant something.

9/20: Delhi High Court passes an interim injuction restraining the maid from filing any case against Devyani in a foreign court
11/19: Delhi court issues a non-bailable warrant against the maid
12/06: Delhi court forwards the warrant to US embassy on Dec 6, asking it to arrest the maid and ensure her repatriation
12/10: The maid's husband and two children flew to the US, which now says that they were granted visa to ensure their protection
12/12: Devyani Khobragade is arrested in the US for violating US laws

Note that no charges had been pressed against DK by 6 December, when India had intimated the US embassy about legal proceedings involving Ms. Richard.

US laws "are laws". Indian laws are timepass?

India law applies in India, and unfortunately New York is not part of India. Now we can all argue that India consulate in New York is India's sovereign territory and therefore whatever transpired between DK and SR took place on "Indian territory", but the prosecutor in this case, Mr Preet Bharara thinks otherwise. As per charges filed by him she is being prosecuted for violating US laws.

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 24 Dec 2013 03:18

Theo_Fidel wrote:The immunity was arranged by the Russian authorities before USA could act.
India had 6 months to change DK’s work classification. Why was IFS eating pindi channa?
Nothing prevented India from doing the same.

I agree with you here.

Theo_Fidel wrote: NRI know about this case but India’s position is impossible to defend.
100,000 signatures would be nothing if NRI set their mind to it.

I was the first person out of my group of friends on FB and the first person on this thread to discover this petition and that too only because Indian media has just found some time to mention the petition after taking a break from digging up Khobragade's case. Give it some time now and it should grow. I'm not very fussed about it, but I can understand how Indian media is clearly making it very difficult for people of Indian origin to understand how Ms. Khobragade has been treated very differently to consular staff of other nations friendly to the US who, I'm sure, are absolutely angelic and never spy while being in the US, even the Germans.

Between Prabhu Dayal's excellent article on how maids have abused the T visa opportunity in the past and Mrs. Richard's family's SOS email to the US, only a court would be in a position to declare an opinion on the veracity of Mrs. Richard's claims.

Theo_Fidel wrote: A CEO of a $200 million company asked me about it last week.
There was nothing I could say.

"It could have been handled a lot better between friends", is what I would've said.

Theo_Fidel wrote: If you notice that is when I first posted about this case to back down as India interests are being affected.
NRI has uniformly told people not to get emotional about USA relationship.

There are plenty of Republican Americans who think Obama is ruining US' standing in the global arena. Just like GW Bush Jr did, I'm sure future Republican leaders will also see value in building bridges with ~~the US~~ India. Frankly, I don't know if there is anything at all the Obama administration has done for India. What I do know that pressuring India on Kashmir was on offer from Obama to Nawaz Sharif for the TSP national bird to fly freely and for assistance in [escaping] Afghanistan.

Theo_Fidel wrote: This is how TSP gets into trouble.

TSP also knows how to get out of trouble by being completely self-centred. Indians on the other hand have DDM that will happily prostitute itself to make the foreigner's case.

Theo_Fidel wrote: As a nation we need to display more toughness and less emotion.

Yes, use intelligence data on US consulate members, possible CIA moles and other to warn the US of arrests if they're not withdrawn from India ASAP.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 24 Dec 2013 03:23

People passing gas about salaries of Indian Diplomats,green card chasing turd wurld Indian Diplomats, collective opinion of NRI and PIOs in massaland (is this another scam like those regular claims of having the collective pulse of South TN while lounging in South Texas probably?) and finally some really hot gas cautioning against "emotive responses" , "paid mobs" etc - may need to be reminded that the profession of Diplomacy is about perception (perception not among the "exceptional" beoples of massaland , but perception among the comity of Nations ) .

saip · Post by **saip** » 24 Dec 2013 03:26

Paid mobs? Who paid them?

Madhusudhan · Post by **Madhusudhan** » 24 Dec 2013 03:27

Mobs paid by high caste Hindu slave oppressors?

saip · Post by **saip** » 24 Dec 2013 03:28

TO help a dalit?

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 24 Dec 2013 03:29

The CEO’s question was about the labor situation of the maid. And how it reflected on India.
He was concerned about visa violations affecting visa availability, both USA or India.
He has workers in India. And was thinking about retaliation affecting him.

In USA no one cares about some low level consul being arrested unfortunately. It could but different but it is not.
This is a country that is willing to broker a deal with Al Qaeda.

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 24 Dec 2013 03:34

Dipanker wrote:
PratikDas wrote: I see. Thank you and Prasad for clarifying. I guess she made the mistake of assuming Indian laws meant something.

9/20: Delhi High Court passes an interim injuction restraining the maid from filing any case against Devyani in a foreign court
11/19: Delhi court issues a non-bailable warrant against the maid
12/06: Delhi court forwards the warrant to US embassy on Dec 6, asking it to arrest the maid and ensure her repatriation
12/10: The maid's husband and two children flew to the US, which now says that they were granted visa to ensure their protection
12/12: Devyani Khobragade is arrested in the US for violating US laws

Note that no charges had been pressed against DK by 6 December, when India had intimated the US embassy about legal proceedings involving Ms. Richard.

US laws "are laws". Indian laws are timepass?
India law applies in India, and unfortunately New York is not part of India. Now we can all argue that India consulate in New York is India's sovereign territory and therefore whatever transpired between DK and SR took place on "Indian territory", but the prosecutor in this case, Mr Preet Bharara thinks otherwise. As per charges filed by him she is being prosecuted for violating US laws.

Let's say that I was already aware of everything said by you above. Americans, including those of Indian origin, need to figure out exactly what is friendly about the supposedly strong relationship between the US and India. Say Wikileaks hadn't happened and we didn't know that India was the most monitored country by US communication intelligence. Say we didn't know that Obama had offered to pressure India on the most sensitive topic of Kashmir in return ~~from~~ for cooperation from Nawaz Sharif. Say the US hadn't pressured India for the legitimate Indian demand of insurance on US nuclear reactors sold to India. Say the US had nothing to do with the well-funded Kudankulam protests.....

...Then what is left in the US-India relationship apart from the purchase of weapons, albeit with timely delivery of late? What is so "friendly" about this?

Frankly, I've never heard of consular staff from other countries friendly to the US like Aus, NZ, Canada, UK, etc. getting into trouble in the US. I suppose they must all be angelic. Not a single law violated - no, Sir. Really?

sivab · Post by **sivab** » 24 Dec 2013 03:44

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2013/20131224/main3.htm

At 9.75 per hour for 40 hours a week, the maid was entitled to about $ 1560 dollars a month. About 560 dollars (about Rs 30000) of this was being paid to her in India.

The remaining $ 1,000 dollars is said to have been paid to her monthly in New York on the following basis: about $ 375 monthly was deducted from the salary to pay for her chargeable utilities, telephone usage, her cable TV, her non work related conveyance and her non work related expenses. Some $ 625 were given monthly in cash, occasionally with signed receipts that will be produced in court as proof.

saip · Post by **saip** » 24 Dec 2013 03:59

How about social security deductions? How about fed and state taxes? Were these deducted? Did she get medical insurance?

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 24 Dec 2013 04:12

PratikDas wrote: ...
Because not enough people know about it. Even people on this thread didn't know about it.

Or maybe because Obama government spying and vindictive attitude by federal agencies causes a fear psychosis.

Anindya · Post by **Anindya** » 24 Dec 2013 04:18

Lobbyist Hired to Push Anti-Modi Resolution in Congress

The Indian American Muslim Council and the Coalition Against Genocide have hired a Washington, D.C. lobbying group to promote HR 417, a resolution that would deny a U.S. visa to Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi for his alleged human rights violations.

Conversely, the Hindu American Foundation has launched an intensive campaign to oppose what it terms an “anti-India” measure, sponsored by Reps. Keith Ellison, D-Minn., and Joe Pitts, R-Penn. The legislation has amassed 22 supporters in the House. It must pass the House Judiciary Committee and the Foreign Affairs Committee before coming to the full floor for a vote.

Introducing the bill in the House Nov. 18, Ellison and Pitts said India’s religious minorities have suffered numerous human rights violations, including massive riots in Gujarat in 2002, which reportedly killed 2,000 Muslims over three days. Human Rights Watch has labeled the violence a “pogrom” against Muslims
...
“This resolution’s strong bipartisan support shows that the rights of religious minorities in India are a priority for the U.S. Congress,” said Ellison. “All Indians should have the right to practice their faith freely, or to change their faith if they so choose. India is big enough for all its citizens. Its best leaders have worked to promote unity among its diverse populations, not division.”

“The victims of events like the riots in Gujarat demand justice,” said Pitts. “The Indian government cannot expect to make greater strides on religious freedom and human rights in the future while countless thousands have not seen justice for their lost loved ones.”

“Right now, millions of Indians face threats like harassment, displacement and outright persecution due to communal and religious violence. India is a land of unrivaled religious diversity, but with such diversity comes great responsibility in ensuring the rights of religious minorities,” stated Pitts.

Modi – a strong contender to succeed Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh – was first denied a U.S. visa in 2005. The Ellison/Pitts resolution urges the State Department to continue denying a visa to Modi.

Shaik Ubaid, former president of the IAMC, confirmed to India-West that IAMC and CAG had hired Fidelis Government Relations to push for support of HR 417 in Congress, but alleged that Modi also has full-time lobbyists working the Hill.

“America should not encourage corrupt people who have been complicit in mass murder,” said Ubaid, a neurologist.

Modi has never been given a “clean sheet” by the Indian Supreme Court, said Ubaid, noting that a case against Modi for his alleged involvement in the riots has languished in a lower court. Ubaid said it was unimportant whether HR 417 passes; the importance of the legislation is to start a dialogue about conditions in India for its religious minorities.

Ubaid said denying Modi a visa would not damage Indo-U.S. relations. “We must take a stand no matter what the price.”
...
The Organization For Minorities in India released a press statement supporting HR 417. “Now that Modi, a protege of both Hitler and Gandhi, is poised to become prime minister of India, the U.S. Congress has a moral duty to condemn his barbarism,” said Pieter Singh, an advisor to OFMI, labeling Modi the “butcher of Gujarat.”

partha · Post by **partha** » 24 Dec 2013 04:29

^
We can always pass anti Bush / anti Obama resolution in our Parliament condemning Iraq, Afghan war. If need be then to also condemn drone attacks.

Madhusudhan · Post by **Madhusudhan** » 24 Dec 2013 04:30

Keith Ellison is a Muslim and an Islamist.

Just looked up Joe Pitts and he is a Christian culture warrior. I guess he has decided that Islamists are better than Hindus. May he lie in bed with them and figure out how much he likes it.....

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 24 Dec 2013 04:48

Its truly odd. That a country like USofA that never really redeemed itself for African-American slavery (the real slavery) and Native American Genocide which had wide subscription from the majority community of the USofA trying to pass a resolution to condemn someone who happened to control what could have turned into a genocide. But then again, I dont assume the gora admi gets hypocricy or irony, especially if he is the hypocrite doing the ironical thing.

Meanwhile a comment like this:

Theo_Fidel wrote: A CEO of a $200 million company asked me about it last week.
There was nothing I could say.

Could be countered by saying the following:
"We Indians consider the digital probing of cavities of a woman without her permission to be rape and the USofA has shown its culture to us. Our own Tejpal is looking at a long sentence by doing the same.

If raping someone this the way you treat someone who is "suspicious", then how close are you before you shoot down people who are suspicious... well oh wait, the regular shooting of blacks and minorities by cops happen to be just that. And that shows the deep mistrust and hatred in the US society.

There were better ways of handling this issue, we are supposed to be friends remember and friends dont hate each other and trust each other to do the right thing."

Hypocrisy knows no bounds sometimes.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 24 Dec 2013 04:53

PratikDas wrote: Let's say that I was already aware of everything said by you above. Americans, including those of Indian origin, need to figure out exactly what is friendly about the supposedly strong relationship between the US and India. Say Wikileaks hadn't happened and we didn't know that India was the most monitored country by US communication intelligence. Say we didn't know that Obama hadn't offered to pressure India on the most sensitive topic of Kashmir in return ~~from~~ for cooperation from Nawaz Sharif. Say the US hadn't pressured India for the legitimate Indian demand of insurance on US nuclear reactors sold to India. Say the US had nothing to do with the well-funded Kudankulam protests.....

...Then what is left in the US-India relationship apart from the purchase of weapons, albeit with timely delivery of late? What is so "friendly" about this?

Frankly, I've never heard of consular staff from other countries friendly to the US like Aus, NZ, Canada, UK, etc. getting into trouble in the US. I suppose they must all be angelic. Not a single law violated - no, Sir. Really?

Answer is not much. We Indians like to fool ourselves thinking we are on the way to becoming US strategic partner. On the top of it the relationship hasn't been particularly warm since Obama took office in 2009. I have a hunch that being the closet Islamist that he is, he does not like India.

Anyway, among all the cities in US where consular offices are located, New York seems to be the notorious city when it comes to prosecuting foreign diplomatic staff. I mean in addition to New York India also has 4 other counselor offices and the embassy in Washington DC, but I have never heard of any problem at any of these sites.

The reason being that New York is also the UN head office and thus has large population of diplomats from all over the world who like to flaunt there diplomatic immunity. This is something the law administration in New York ( and I suspect the population too) seriously resents. Towing the cars of UN diplomats who have outstanding parking tickets, seems to their pet peeve. There is always some dispute going on, you can read about in newspapers. The rednecks hate UN and I think law administration is dominated by their types. It seems in New York they are always looking for errant diplomatic staff they would like to punish.
So in case of Prabhu Dayal, Neena Malhotra, and now DK, New York zeal to punish diplomatic staff may also be a contributing factor.

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 24 Dec 2013 04:58

KLNMurthy wrote:
PratikDas wrote: ...
Because not enough people know about it. Even people on this thread didn't know about it.
Or maybe because Obama government spying and vindictive attitude by federal agencies causes a fear psychosis.

Yes, I agree. I must admit, it has been on the back of my mind as well.

[OT] I am all for genuinely friendly and above-par relations between the two countries. I was a huge fan of Obama when he first got elected. When he got re-elected I was glad that the racists won't be able to say the African American President's 1st term was an aberration in the story of the US. Increasingly I am of the opinion though that Indian apprehension over closer ties with the US may be well justified because the US' intentions are not really genuine. Everything out of Wikileaks is proof of this and Obama has actually made things worse.[/OT]

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 24 Dec 2013 05:24

LokeshC wrote:Could be countered by saying the following:
"We Indians consider the digital probing of cavities of a woman without her permission to be rape and the USofA has shown its culture to us. Our own Tejpal is looking at a long sentence by doing the same.

If raping someone this the way you treat someone who is "suspicious", then how close are you before you shoot down people who are suspicious... well oh wait, the regular shooting of blacks and minorities by cops happen to be just that. And that shows the deep mistrust and hatred in the US society.

There were better ways of handling this issue, we are supposed to be friends remember and friends dont hate each other and trust each other to do the right thing."

Hypocrisy knows no bounds sometimes.