Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

[krishnan]

if AK reports to MNC / owners , why is he against FDI in retail, wont that help MNC/owners ????

[Singha]

good point that. any foreign fathers cannot be of the purely mercantile type but more political/EJ type with non-monetary agendas. keeping Namo out of gaddi would surely rank very high among foreign fathers interested in indian scene. it upsets all their cozy drug peddler arrangements and guangxi built over decades.

[member_20317]

Here is an old quote from the amicus curiae:

"There is no documentary material of any nature whatsoever which can establish that Shri Bhatt was not present at the meeting on 27.02.2002. In the absence of the minutes of the meeting, there is again no documentary material available as to the participants in the meeting and what transpired at the said meeting," Ramchandran said in his report.

Ravi_g, in case you are not aware SIT had specific mobile phone records about the 27-2-2002 claim by Sanjiv Bhatt. The mobile records suggest he was on a phone call at least 1 hour away from the said meeting location at the time of the go-slow instructions. Other recorded statements also point towards discrepancy in his story. Probably amicus curiae felt otherwise.

I had read that. But then I doubt if these records are of the taps as such or merely the cell location records (GPS). Anybody can get away with saying they left their phone somewhere under somebodys custody.

I wanted to draw attention to the curious manner of arriving at an assessment. One can have a record of what happened and there can be no rationale reason for recording what did not happen. The fact that there were no minutes should have raised the suspicion that no such talk took place instead it got used to suggest a conspiracy.

Shri Bhatt apparently does not follow Pauli's exclusion principle and can have two existence at the same time and place. Once with minutes of presence another without. Phzikiss gurus can characterize better I guess.


.......................................

if AK reports to MNC / owners , why is he against FDI in retail, wont that help MNC/owners ????

Krishnan ji, Sasu maa is setting up Devrani against Jethani. (younger D.I.L. against elder D.I.L.)

[johneeG]

JohneeG Saar,

I agree with you that Congress can go down even more, but dont u think they can cross 10-15 seats in UP after alliance with BSP.

Saar,
I think BSP may not want to ally with kongis. Frankly, I don't think anyone would want to ally with kongis right now after 4-0 drubbing. I think most of the kongi Bs can get more seats on their own instead of going with the kongis. People's ire will turn towards them also if they ally with kongis. Only those parties that are very desperate may want to ally with kongis. For ex: Lallu seems to be in desperate position. And JDU seems to have backed out of kongi alliance after the 4-0 result. So, lallu gets released and the alliance with lallu is underway. Lallu may not be able to stand in elections. But he can campaign. And he can rally cadre. Otherwise, his party would be leaderless. Its the same reason why Gajan in AP was released. His party too would have been leaderless and rudderless if he was not released.

NCP in Maha also seems to be in desperate situation. So, they may want to ally with the kongis. But even they would have left the kongis if they could.

Suppose, kongis offer Mayaben CMgiri, will she accept a pre-poll alliance? I don't think so. Before elections, everyone will concentrate on maximizing the seats. Fresh negotiations can start after the elections. It is for this reason that Jaya amma is not going to ally with Lotus in TN before elections. The same reason will apply to Maya. It seems to me that Jaya will not ally with lotus and Maya will not ally with kongis. Both of them will try to maximize their seats and then negotiate with the coalition that has most number of seats after elections. Why ally with someone like kongis and then risk facing the wrath of people due to corruption and anti-incumbency? Just like AAP! Why didn't AAP ally with the kongis before election? But they are ready to take their support to form the sarkaar, no?! The same theory applies.

Right now, I think kongis would find it extremely difficult to get allies. Thats why DMK was looking for alliance with lotus. Because, they did not want to ally with kongis. Lotus did not want to ally with DMK because of corruption. Only those who have no other choice will ally with kongis. Even they will drive a very hard bargain in terms of seat share. Kongis are in a bad position and everyone knows it. No one expects the kongis to do well in elections. Many of the kongi leaders are accepting this publicly. That means the situation is very very bad for them.

EDIT:
RajeshA saar,
thats a nice post on Fordri. I get the impression that Fordri is someone whom no one controls but everyone wants to use. Fordri comes across as someone who is ready to be anything to anyone as long as he gets to the next destination. Seems like a pretty shrewd guy. So, he may allow himself to be 'used' simultaneously by many different players. In dilli, the lower kongis(definitely Dheekshith) helped Fordri thinking that he will cut the anti-incumbency votes and help the kongis. But, then he turned on the kongis later in the game. Now, he is again taking the help of kongis to form the sarkaar. Similarly, he used Anna in a very clever manner. Anna is lucky to have survived. Otherwise, he'd have become a martyr which would have been milked by Fordri so much more. Seems like aisa koi nahin, jisko Fordri ne taga nahin...

[muraliravi]

^^^ JohneeG Saar,

I agree that if BSP refuses any prepoll pact with congress, Kangress fortunes will be heavily hit. I even doubt 5 seats in UP. Maybe 2. Alliance with behenji and jat reservation are the only chances they have in UP.

[Vikas]

Just curious, Why there is so much angst and hatred against AAP and AK on these pages. Yes he has spoiled BJP's party in Delhi and so has punctured plans of Congress of using him to cut BJP vote But then he is quite popular with youth in NCR region and the way wind is blowing he may end up winning Gurgaon, Gaziabad and Faridabad LS seats too.
Off course He hasn't proven anything yet except for some utterances. Let us see how the cookie crumbles in this case.
Let him succeed or fail before we do hatched job on him. Surely he can't be worse than Ms. Dixit or Akhilesh Yadav.
Just like NaMo or SG or MSY or JJ or NP, He has his own vision for development and he is slowly marching towards it.
Why make him a bigger threat than he is.

[gashish]

Modi shares ordeal at personal level for the first time. Read it in full.

Satyameva Jayate: Truth Alone Triumphs
http://www.narendramodi.in/satyameva-ja ... -triumphs/

[Christopher Sidor]

Just curious, Why there is so much angst and hatred against AAP and AK on these pages. Yes he has spoiled BJP's party in Delhi and so has punctured plans of Congress of using him to cut BJP vote But then he is quite popular with youth in NCR region and the way wind is blowing he may end up winning Gurgaon, Gaziabad and Faridabad LS seats too.
Off course He hasn't proven anything yet except for some utterances. Let us see how the cookie crumbles in this case.
Let him succeed or fail before we do hatched job on him. Surely he can't be worse than Ms. Dixit or Akhilesh Yadav.
Just like NaMo or SG or MSY or JJ or NP, He has his own vision for development and he is slowly marching towards it.
Why make him a bigger threat than he is.

I concur. It is as if BJP and Modi is gods gift to India and to its middle class. We finally have a non-BJP, non-Congress alternative. One which is not divisive or sectarian or regional or down right casteist in its outlook. Within a period of 10 years this can go and become the third pillar and shift the polity from a bipolar to a tripolar.

[Virendra]

I think BSP may not want to ally with kongis. Frankly, I don't think anyone would want to ally with kongis right now after 4-0 drubbing.

There's too much noise in these elections .. not just for the people but also the politicos.
Most of the these smaller parties would play the wait and watch game this game.
There will be nothing concrete before the post poll alliances build up.

[RajeshA]

hat Arvind Kejriwal is Sonia’s lieutenant, and Sonia would do everything to see to it that Arvind Kejriwal wins ever more credibility and support in his “constituency” or Jāti of middle class, and if for that she has to sacrifice some chess pieces like Sheila Dixit or Sandeep Dixit. She would allow Kejriwal even to go after the Dynasty itself if it helps him. Point is that Sonia Gandhi wants to either install her own man as the next PM or to deny Narendra Modi a free hand in the next government.

AK now directly reports to MNC-owners and Missionaries. AK is no more lieutenant of Sonia. And to make that point clear, AK will soon order inquiries against Robert Vadra. Congress is forced by MNC-owners and Missionaries to lend support to AK. MNC-owners and Missionaries dont mind sacrificing whole of Congress including Sonia\RG\PG\RV to make AK PM of India. Now BJP-leaders do NOT have courage to call spade a spade and disclose the FACT that AK is MNC/Missionary agent. Because in such case, MNC-owners will unleash all its paid-media and paid-judiciary on BJP-leaders that the BJP-leaders will get blasted.

So if BJP-leaders make FALSE allegation that AK is Sonia's lackey, then they will lose water once AK orders arrest of Robert Vadra or inquiry on him. And BJP-leaders dont have strength to spread the truth, and they dont have courage to punch above their strength. All in all, only "winning" strategy BJP-leaders have against AK is to give Loksabha tickets to MNC-agents in BJP. With this, MNC-owners will reduce the paid-media supply to AK and let BJP win.

Now thats a "winning" strategy for BJP. For us nationalists, that is NOT an option. The only option we nationalists IMO have is to put REAL legislative reforms before all activists of AAP and all parties. And tell EACH activists of every party that their leader is fake because he refuses to support these REAL legislative reforms that India needs badly. This will bust AK. And if that damages BJP, well, then thats the price they pay for opposing good legislative reforms for whatever chankian reasons they had.

eg I am asking AAP activists on why AAP is opposing Preferential Voting System and Two Round Voting System today for Delhi Municipal electoral reforms? Many activists support TRVS and PVS and so they see a point. The immediate cross-question I get is "well, why dont you ask BJP\Congress\NaMo\Sonia for TRVS and PVS?" And my reply is "well, I never voted for BJP\Congress\NaMo\Sonia and I have always asked people NOT to vote for BJP\Congress\Sonia\NaMo because they oppose all good laws. Now you tell me about AAP\AK". Same way, I AK fans "why is AK = AAP refusing to bring Right to Recall Delhi Mayor draft and RTR Delhi Corporator draft in the Delhi Assembly now?". And such questions convince them to see real nature of AK. And this reduces the faith they have in AK.

Rahul Mehta ji,

at the international level there is always tugging and pulling going on at a certain level. There is an overlap of interests of many establishments in the world - Anglo-American, Vatican, German, Sinic, Islamic, Kremlin, but sometimes there are also some differences and these play out when it about manipulating assets.

And Sonia Gandhi, in my view, is a shared asset, among the different establishments, with a few being bigger stake-holders in her. How the shares are held, only time would tell.

So when I speak of Sonia Gandhi, you can consider her as equivalent of being a representative of foreign establishments in India, or as you term them "MNC-owners and Missionaries".

The problem is that Indians think that we have a proper establishment of our own. We do but this is small and mostly these are military and babu holdouts who do have a nationalist outlook. But mostly Indian establishment, the C-System, is foreign-owned and subservient, and works in ways to undermine these nationalists without overtly changing the soft-patriotic narrative.

Because of the soft-patriotic narrative, which sometimes even AAP uses, it is very hard to make a convincing case in front of the Janta that "MNC-owners and Missionaries" own the whole damn C-System, especially as they also own the media. One would look very stupid indeed, in fact a cuckoo, making such a case. Pakistanis take to conspiracy theories like fish to water: "Islam khatre men". Indians or more specifically the vast majority of Hindus do not do so. They listen to their Jāti leaders and political agents.

However it is much easier to make the case that Sonia Gandhi and the dynasty are responsible for their plight. That is something to which the Indian can relate to. Anything more than this, and it becomes too complicated to explain. When you speak of "MNC-owners and Missionaries", even I feel like turning up my nose. That is the level of programming we Indians have. So we have to keep the Dynasty at the center of any conspiracy theory you want to sell the Indian people.

They think Sonia Gandhi is the Empress and not the Viceroy.

So if you want to sell the story of AAP as sponsored by "MNC-owners and Missionaries", you have to keep Sonia Gandhi as the root of the conspiracy. The funding of AAP by foreign sources has to be explained as funding by Sonia Gandhi's friends abroad. Even the charge-sheet against Sonia Gandhi in case of 1984 Sikh pogrom would have to be explained off as providing an alibi, so that Sonia Gandhi does not look as if she is working with foreign governments.

The whole problem of selling a conspiracy theory, whether false or true, is to give the people an emotional stake in it and enable them to channel their anger accordingly.

Tell the world that almost all the assets being used by Arvind Kejriwal to strengthen AAP have been donated by Sonia Gandhi. She is his primary seed capitalist. Yogender Yadav was Rahul Gandhi’s man. The web presence and public relations of AAP was being managed by a Congress team. Most of the mainstream media which have been pushing Arvind Kejriwal are basically Congress assets.

The allegation is wrong. Sonia never funded AAP=IAC=AK in past 4 years. All funding came from MNC-owners directly and went directly to paid-media. AK never got any money directly. So above false allegations will only make AK supporters more die hard AK supporter. just as fake allegations on NaMo only increases commitment of NaMo fans towards NaMo.

If you look at the specific examples I have mentioned, all those are true. One would still have to make a case as to why the mainstream media which never questions or attacks the dynasty has been allowing Arvind Kejriwal the sole rights on television to attack Congress and Dynasty on corruption.

The closeness of the mainstream media and the Dynasty and former's deference to the latter is a well-known fact, which everybody can see. So making the case of MSM being in Sonia's pocket is easy.

It doesn't really matter whether the money paid to MSM came from Sonia directly or indirectly from foreign friends of Sonia for the sake of untraceability.

Most damning is the letter that Sonia Gandhi wrote to PM Dr. Manmohan Singh in 2005 to not transfer Arvind Kejriwal out of Delhi. Why would something like that interest Sonia Gandhi? Meenakshi Lekhi did bring out some details of the letter. Use the letter extensively.

Other than this letter, there is no evidence that AK-Sonia had any links. And to circumvent this letter, AK has already cut votes of Congress in Delhi-2013 electuons, and AK may also order inquiry against Robert Vadra soon. And some letter of 2005, and that too just a mere letter for issue like transfer, not some favor of crores of rupees will not carry much weights on voters forget AK-fans.

The point you're ignoring is that I'm saying Arvind Kejriwal is Sonia's man, not Congress's. Congress is one truck belonging to Sonia. AK is another truck where Sonia does backseat driving. She is shifting her assets from truck A to truck B.

I've also made the case that Sonia prefers her own man Arvind Kejriwal to be the chosen inspector than a Modi. If info on a crime is out in the open, then let one's own man earn the laurels.

These points do not invalidate the conspiracy theory.

Anyway, IMO, best way to cut AK is to present REAL legislative reforms to AK's fans, not some hearsay, slogans etc. The hearsay and slogans will have no impact on AK's fans. And raising issue of REAL legislative reforms will damage BJP leaders as well, and thats the damage BJP leaders deserve for opposing all REAL legislative reforms till date.

Please don't mind me saying it, but the legislative way is bunkum. The only thing that would assure me that a leader is working for me is if he dismantles Macaulayism and installs policies which give Hindu forces a better hand in pushing back Islam. What would convince me is if under a leader the military-industrial complex in India is built up, when more and more of Indian companies are owned by Indians. One can formulate metrics on this.

The only legislation in non-cultural field that I support is Two-Round Voting. I don't support Right to Recall.

[member_22539]

I concur. It is as if BJP and Modi is gods gift to India and to its middle class. We finally have a non-BJP, non-Congress alternative. One which is not divisive or sectarian or regional or down right casteist in its outlook. Within a period of 10 years this can go and become the third pillar and shift the polity from a bipolar to a tripolar.

People desperate for someone who would deliver the goods (which is highly doubtful in the case of AK) and yet despises the thought of an innate Indic like Mr. Modi being the one to do so will definitely find AK a "gods gift to India." For the rest of us, he is just more of the same. The only difference is that he is at the beginning stages, where many including the many regional parties and commies were once as well, that too in the living memory of many members. So, pardon those who sees your "gods gift to India" for what he is.

[Comer]

http://www.dailypioneer.com/nation/namo ... ategy.html

Why do senior BJP leaders turn up at news shows on issues involving not so important Congress leaders? And why is that the BJP spokespersons give a sound ‘bite’ at the drop of the hat?

True. Also BJP spokespersons need to know when to stop speaking, especially if two opponents of yours are going at each other. Many a time you see Congress and a non BJP party accusing each other. Instead of wisely closing your mouth and let something come out, BJP spokesperson have this urge to butt in. Invariably the topic gets changed and everyone pounces on the BJP.

[kapilrdave]

Farji is a new alternative? For whom? Let's see.

If you want to vote for an alternative who believes in free doles, you have gehlots, ammas, silkis, and biggest of all, mainos.

If you want to vote for leftists/naxalites, you already bios leftists and lesser bios leftists (samajvadis) dime a dozen.

If you want to vote for muslim appeasers, you have silkis, behenjis, nikammas and the BAAP of all, congoons.

If you want to vote snake-oil merchants, vote just about anyone other than bjp.

If you want to vote anti nationals, you have abdullahs, muslim leagues, jagans, 90 years aged young dudes wearing dark goggles.

If you want to vote anpadh-gawars (except farji most of AAP is illiterate) then you have lot of lallus.

What new farji brings to the plate, hain ji?

[Comer]

^^ Good one

[member_20317]

Why make him a bigger threat than he is.

What if he is a bigger threat? Or rather the sword arm of the imperium.

I am one of the contributors against Shree AK and I believe I have got good reasons. Basically I went looking for them reasons, because I fear getting deputed to a peace time posting during the wartime.

Have you thought through the way field positions are lining up? If you have, what is it that you notice that cuts across the reassuring LoC? For example have you thought through why exactly AK rants against the Power utilities the most? Off course, there is money there - that is why entrepreneurs got into it in the first place. But AK is not an entrepreneur! Why is he there? Is it for the good of the Dilli public?

Just a friendly 2 pence. Hope you don't take the questions otherwise. I just appear to be badgering but I am a cute cuddly SDRE only - part of your beloved dysfunctional family .

[archan]

I concur. It is as if BJP and Modi is gods gift to India and to its middle class. We finally have a non-BJP, non-Congress alternative. One which is not divisive or sectarian or regional or down right casteist in its outlook. Within a period of 10 years this can go and become the third pillar and shift the polity from a bipolar to a tripolar.

So this could be interesting to know. How do you think, Christopher Sidor, that NaMo (and by extension BJP) is
1) divisive
2) sectarian
3) regional
4) casteist

I think most people here feel that Modi or BJP may not be 400% the bestest thing ever to happen to the nation, but are definitely the best option among those available right now. Since you have made those four specific allegations, let us hear you back them up.

[subhamoy.das]

Just curious, Why there is so much angst and hatred against AAP and AK on these pages. Yes he has spoiled BJP's party in Delhi and so has punctured plans of Congress of using him to cut BJP vote But then he is quite popular with youth in NCR region and the way wind is blowing he may end up winning Gurgaon, Gaziabad and Faridabad LS seats too.
Off course He hasn't proven anything yet except for some utterances. Let us see how the cookie crumbles in this case.
Let him succeed or fail before we do hatched job on him. Surely he can't be worse than Ms. Dixit or Akhilesh Yadav.
Just like NaMo or SG or MSY or JJ or NP, He has his own vision for development and he is slowly marching towards it.
Why make him a bigger threat than he is.

I concur. It is as if BJP and Modi is gods gift to India and to its middle class. We finally have a non-BJP, non-Congress alternative. One which is not divisive or sectarian or regional or down right casteist in its outlook. Within a period of 10 years this can go and become the third pillar and shift the polity from a bipolar to a tripolar.

PAAP is a utter left leaning political party behind the grab of fitting corruption. There vision is to give free every thing - from electricity to water to schools and hospitals - at the cost of tax payers money for vote bank politics. They are also worst kind of appeasers and will meekly surrender to the jehadis, pakis,. chinese in the name of fighting corruption and aam-admi bhai chara. They are so micro focused - mohallas and all - that their vision is a good fit for local body goverance. Tomorrow they will say that in the land of aam admi why should we have so mant models of car ? Let us have one admy and one fiat model ike good old days. They are the jhola-wallas. They are nehru socialism 2.0. Tomorrow they will say "aam admi does not need army and airforce" let us divert defence fund to mohalla sabha. In short, they will ruin the people, economy and defense of india

[shyamoo]

Forget tomorrow. They have already stated that they will give away kashmir! And this was before the election. Is this what Christopher Sidor wants?

[svenkat]

what does silkis mean?

[kapilrdave]

Silki == Mulayam Sing Yadav

this word has been used before.
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It is common argument of PAAP supporters that farji is a new/fresh "alternative" who is not X,Y,Z. He is not this, he is not that, he is not falana, he is not even dhimka, he is not even tom/dik/harry. He should be voted in because he is not bla bla bla. His definition is akin to the definition of parmatma given by puranas: नः इति, नः इति, नः इति। …

yuppee crowd is attracted by this नः इति, नः इति. But they don't care to find out who he is.

What he is? What does he stand for? Ask these simple questions to self and one would realize he is not someone to vote for.

[Rahul M]

kejri is a IIT chhaap laloo, nothing more.

[Supratik]

Kejriwal is saying nothing new. Regarding corruption there have been messiahs in the past JP and VPS. His economic vision is nothing new. All leftists, communists, socialists have said all those things in the past. So has Congress and even the RSS. All that has resulted in 70% of the country below the poverty-line which itself is a joke. Voters have short memories. NCR region is right now in anti-corruption mood and he took advantage of Anna's movement. I am surprised that even some on BR think he is a messiah when all that he is doing is recycling old wine in new bottle. Modi OTOH represents a distinct vision that has not been said in the past irrespective of whether he wins or looses.

[Supratik]

Unless I am missing something AAP's effect is going to be limited to the NCR region.

[Singha]

why not south bangalore or east bangalore(whitefield) ? ITvity munnas and govt servants are suckers for the AAP type show.

[JohnTitor]

Kejriwal is saying nothing new. Regarding corruption there have been messiahs in the past JP and VPS. His economic vision is nothing new. All leftists, communists, socialists have said all those things in the past. So has Congress and even the RSS. All that has resulted in 70% of the country below the poverty-line which itself is a joke. Voters have short memories. NCR region is right now in anti-corruption mood and he took advantage of Anna's movement. I am surprised that even some on BR think he is a messiah when all that he is doing is recycling old wine in new bottle. Modi OTOH represents a distinct vision that has not been said in the past irrespective of whether he wins or looses.

EXACTLY! People are jumping on the AK bandwagon without asking questions like: who is he? where did he come from? what are his intentions? etc

Pais media is trying to exaggerate his persona, which is better for us because.. the bigger they are, the harder they fall

[KJo]

People are fed up of corruption and will give chance to anyone else. I can see why khujli is getting the votes.

[Pratyush]

Farji is a new alternative? For whom? Let's see.

If you want to vote for an alternative who believes in free doles, you have gehlots, ammas, silkis, and biggest of all, mainos.

If you want to vote for leftists/naxalites, you already bios leftists and lesser bios leftists (samajvadis) dime a dozen.

If you want to vote for muslim appeasers, you have silkis, behenjis, nikammas and the BAAP of all, congoons.

If you want to vote snake-oil merchants, vote just about anyone other than bjp.

If you want to vote anti nationals, you have abdullahs, muslim leagues, jagans, 90 years aged young dudes wearing dark goggles.

If you want to vote anpadh-gawars (except farji most of AAP is illiterate) then you have lot of lallus.

What new farji brings to the plate, hain ji?

Did not realize that I shared a telepathic link with you. Was thinking of this while driving to the office, this morning. Could not post due to lack of net access.

[Supratik]

why not south bangalore or east bangalore(whitefield) ? ITvity munnas and govt servants are suckers for the AAP type show.

I am seeing some noise from Bglr and Mumbai. Mumbai SS/MNS/BJP is very cadre based with the chi-chi club rarely voting. AAP may in fact cut more INC votes. Not sure of Bglr. Most of the noise is in the NCR region.

[member_23365]

why not south bangalore or east bangalore(whitefield) ? ITvity munnas and govt servants are suckers for the AAP type show.

I am seeing some noise from Bglr and Mumbai. Mumbai SS/MNS/BJP is very cadre based with the chi-chi club rarely voting. AAP may in fact cut more INC votes. Not sure of Bglr. Most of the noise is in the NCR region.

^^^
Guru log thats what I think is the problem. Chi-Chi club rarely voted but are voting heavily now and are not making the smart choice available to them. Most of them are first time voter and dont know the real value of their vote and are falling for rehtorics.

[chaanakya]

2002 riots: 'Ethnic cleansing, genocide are foreign terms... cannot be considered'

In her petition challenging the clean chit given by a special investigation team to Narendra Modi and others in the Gulberg Society killings, Zakia Jafri had used the expressions "ethnic cleansing" and "genocide". On Thursday, Ahmedabad metropolitan magistrate B J Ganatra dismissed both "foreign terms" as not applicable while rejecting Zakia's petition.

Ganatra also rejected the "larger conspiracy" argument raised by Jafri. Excerpts from his order:

'Foreign terms'

"Based on all the witness statements and documents on record, this court has to see whether the Gulberg Society incident was because of a conspiracy by powerful people in the state government or not. And whether, as the complainant says, this can be called 'ethnic cleansing' and 'genocide'."

The court goes into the origin of the expressions and notes that "ethnic cleansing" was first used during the struggle that broke out over the division of Yugoslavia, where people were killed based on community.

And "genocide is a Greek and Latin usage which means the killing of people on the basis of race," reads the order, going on to define the term.

"For this, we have to see the definition of 'genocide' as per the dictionary which is as follows: Generally speaking, genocide does not necessarily mean the immediate destruction of a nation, except when accomplished by mass killings of all members of a nation. It is intended rather to signify a coordinated plan of different actions aiming at the destruction of essential foundations of the life of national groups, with the aim of annihilating the groups themselves. The objectives of such a plan would be disintegration of political and social institutions, of culture, language, national feelings, religion, and the economic existence of national groups, and the destruction of the personal security, liberty, health, dignity, and even the lives of the individuals belonging to such groups," it says.

"With reference to the above allegations and based on records placed before this court, the burning of the train at Godhra railway station cannot be called a preplanned conspiracy by government functionaries and the court believes that it cannot be equated to complicity by authorities. Taking into account the complainant's projection of these incidents as very serious and the allegations against Narendra Modi and his people in power and the specific allegations on their mindset, based on the material placed on record and arguments put forward by the complainant, the foreign terms used in this protest petition cannot be taken into consideration."

On 'larger conspiracy'

"The court opines that the allegations levelled are collective, unclear and general...

"Evidence is not satisfactory to prove an alleged larger conspiracy by accused number one Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi and others...

"To maintain law and order, the state government, in the afternoon of February 28, 2002, asked for military and paramilitary forces. Besides, Modi appealed on Doordarshan for peace from both communities again and again. Taking the records placed by the special investigation team, the court can't consider that there was a conspiracy...

"Gujarat has a history of communal violence. In view of this, the court cannot agree with the complainant that Narendra Modi did not take any action under the circumstances to maintain law and order. When required, curfew was [imposed]."

On IPS officers' evidence

"RB Sreekumar, Sanjiv Bhatt and Rahul Sharma's record supporting the allegations as evidence, prima facie, in view of the court, are not enough to proceed. Zakia Jafri has shown the horrors of communal riots. This court can take it as personal feeling but it cannot be considered important for the case. The affidavits of Sanjiv Bhatt and Sreekumar included in the evidence prima facie are not reliable...

"The SIT has established that Sanjiv Bhatt was not present in the February 27 meeting at the chief minister's residence...

"The court is of the opinion that the state government was taking the efforts needed to maintain law and order. The court cannot comment whether these efforts were [effective] or not."

[Vikas]

I think my post was more on AK getting lot of attention on these pages and not whether he is good or bad. Personally I have no opinion about him till I see him delivering the goods. Heck he is in the same boat as RG execpt that RG could not win even a single election.
The only thing that worries me is that this man has gone from beingNobody to Anna's coat tail pest to CM of DElhi in less than 3 years which is too good to be believed.

We need to stop judging people from the lenses of BRF because even Sh. Modi ji will fail BRF test of patriotism. Most of the politicians out there pander to all sorts of people causing them to say nonsensical things.
As far competition with NaMo, I think it is a non starter because NaMo is proven material while AK is unknown quantity.
To say that AK is fresh breath of air or a better alternative is stretching it little too far. He is just a blip on the radar which will go away in few years.

[Mahendra]

Silki == Mulayam Sing Yadav

this word has been used before.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

It is common argument of PAAP supporters that farji is a new/fresh "alternative" who is not X,Y,Z. He is not this, he is not that, he is not falana, he is not even dhimka, he is not even tom/dik/harry. He should be voted in because he is not bla bla bla. His definition is akin to the definition of parmatma given by puranas: नः इति, नः इति, नः इति। …

yuppee crowd is attracted by this नः इति, नः इति. But they don't care to find out who he is.

What he is? What does he stand for? Ask these simple questions to self and one would realize he is not someone to vote for.

In Mumbai silki is slang word used for G@ys

[johneeG]

Just curious, Why there is so much angst and hatred against AAP and AK on these pages. Yes he has spoiled BJP's party in Delhi and so has punctured plans of Congress of using him to cut BJP vote But then he is quite popular with youth in NCR region and the way wind is blowing he may end up winning Gurgaon, Gaziabad and Faridabad LS seats too.
Off course He hasn't proven anything yet except for some utterances. Let us see how the cookie crumbles in this case.
Let him succeed or fail before we do hatched job on him. Surely he can't be worse than Ms. Dixit or Akhilesh Yadav.
Just like NaMo or SG or MSY or JJ or NP, He has his own vision for development and he is slowly marching towards it.
Why make him a bigger threat than he is.

The real question is how is another new post going to solve corruption issue? What if Lokpal becomes corrupt? Lokpal is not God/Goddess who is supposed to be incorruptible.

Anyway, RSS did support the anti-corruption movement. And then BR and Anna went their ways. Then, Fordriwal split from the Anna camp and formed a new party. The party is filled with naxal sympathizers who want Kashmir to be independent. Fordriwal himself meets a mullah who is champion of illegal B-dheshi immigrant influx. And of course there are allegations of shady foreign funding.

So,

Pros of Fordriwal:
Supports Lokpal which he claims will solve the corruption.

Cons of Fordriwal:
Supports Kashmir Independence.
Naxal Sympathiser.
Supports muslim appeasement.
Supports B-dheshi illegal immigration.
Dubious funding by foreign orgs.

I think there seem to be more cons than pros.

Saar,
just check out Bhushan's career and the sort of cases that he takes up. Bhushan was thrashed by someone for his support to kashmir independence. BTW, Bhushan was selected as AC for Supreme Court appointed SIT in Jafia Zakri case. Guj sarkaar opposed it, so he was dropped and someone else was selected. Then, Bhushan is the counsel of the guy who accuses NaMo of 'snooping'. In fact, Bhushan put this matter in affidavit and was reprimanded by the court for making baseless allegations. When Cobrapost revealed the sting of NaMo snooping, Bhushan was also present in the press conference.

The press conference was also attended by noted social activist and former NAC (National Advisory Council) member Aruna Roy, lawyer and activist Prashant Bhushan and former Navy Chief Admiral L Ramdas, among others.

Link

Cobrapost is run by Bahal who was previously a member of Tehalka. Cobrapost made this sensational 'revelation' about NaMo just at the time when the news of Rapepal's activities were getting twitter publicity. There are allegations that the Rapepal's rag was funded by Kabil Sipal. Cobrapost's 'revelation' involves snooping on NaMo and his cabinet to prove that he was snooping on some woman whose father claims that he requested for the security from the Guj Govt.

Note that Aruna Roy was also present in that press conference of Cobrapost. She is a member of NAC whose chairman is Sonya. Aruna Roy is acknowledged by the Kejri as his mentor. Fordriwal was funded by ford foundation. Then he was given Magasaysay award which is funded by the ford. The lokpal envisioned by the fordriwal gives a special provision which allows the magasaysay awardees to become lokpals. This special recognition for the magasaysay awardees is not given to any other awardees. So, bharath rathna or padhma or nobull or any other awardee cannot become a lokpal based on merely that qualification. But, a magasaysay awardee can.

BTW, binayak who was charged with sedition(due to naxal links) and is out on bail is also part of NAC according to NaMo.

Many of the policies followed by the UPA have been set by the NAC. So, the policies that are espoused by the Fordriwal have already been implemented by UPA. The only difference is Lokpal which is supposed to eliminate corruption.

Now, Ms Lekhi of BJP accused that Sonya had written a letter to stop the transfer of Kejri out of dilli. Just compare the number of times Fordriwal was transferred to number of times someone like Khemkha was transferred. If Fordriwal really claims to be such a big fighter against corruption, how come he was being supported by none other than Sonya?

Anna's movement was primarily against the corruption of kendra sarkaar. Most of the scams have happened at center. One of the primary card of Fordriwal was anti-kongi position. He declared piously that he would never align with either kongis or lotus. But, now, he is going to form the govt with the help of kongis. And it is the Antonio and Pappu who are supporting Fordri. Many of the lower kongis are not happy with this arrangement. Isn't it ironic? I mean you were primarily fighting against the corruption at center and now you are going to take support from the same high command to form the sarkaar?

I concur. It is as if BJP and Modi is gods gift to India and to its middle class. We finally have a non-BJP, non-Congress alternative. One which is not divisive or sectarian or regional or down right casteist in its outlook. Within a period of 10 years this can go and become the third pillar and shift the polity from a bipolar to a tripolar.

No, you are wrong. First and foremost, Fordriwal started off with non-kong position but has ended up in bed with them. So, there are still only two poles. kong+fordri vs lotus. And this in dilli. Outside dilli, Fordri has not even opened his account. How many seats do you expect for fordri outside dilli? 10? 30? Many other parties stand to get much more than fordri. But, even then it is still only bipolar. Because, there are only two poles: kongi or anti-kongi. Or 'secular' vs anti-'secular' if you prefer this terminology.

Fordri also falls under the same pole as kongi and 'secular'. Lotus has been able to show this by not forming the govt and allowing the Fordri and kongi to go ahead. Otherwise, Fordri would have continued with his pretense of being a third alternative, when infact he is just a new disguise of the kongis.

To be an independent pole, you should not align with the existing poles. kongi and lotus are two independent poles because they won't ally with each other come what may. This is known to all voters. So, they are seen as two separate poles. If two parties ally with each other, then they cannot claim to be independent poles. For ex: SP and BSP are independent poles in UP. But, at center they have both supported kongis and will be treated accordingly in parliamentary elections by the voters. kongi and lotus are independent poles at both center and state level. Fordri has already allied with the kongis at state level. What stops him from getting into an alliance at center level?

BTW, his alliance or taking support is a betrayal of people's mandate because the people voted against the kongis. Lotus and Fordri were beneficiaries of anti-kongi vote. Now, having acquired anti-kongi vote, he is taking the support of kongi? Imagine the same deed by the lotus? Suppose lotus forms the sarkaar with the kongi' support, what would be the reaction of people? Didn't Fordri say that kongi and lotus are besharm and will come together for power? Now he is going with kongi for power?

So, first and foremost he is not an independent pole. He is just part of kongi spectrum.
Secondly, he has been limited to dilli so far. At most, he will have some effect in metros. H

So, talking of such a kongi imitation limited to one region(even in dilli they didn't get majority of seats) as the alternative third pole is really stretching the imagination. Unless EVMs do some magic, I don't expect the Fordri to emerge as any force. At least, when people talk of Maya or Left, there may be some logic. But to talk of Fordri as third pole is really laughable.

BTW, why didn't Fordri go for a re-election? If he has such popularity, then why the desperation of having to take support of the kongis? Why not go for a re-election and win a decisive mandate? Is there a fear that the performance cannot be repeated? If there is such a fear that performance cannot be repeated even in dilli(which is their base), then what is their situation in rest of the dhesh?

----

If you want to vote anpadh-gawars (except farji most of AAP is illiterate) then you have lot of lallus.

kejri is a IIT chhaap laloo, nothing more.

Lallu is NOT illiterate.

Wiki:

He studied Bachelor of Laws and a Master in Political Science from B. N. College, Patna University.

On 23 September 1990, Yadav arrested L K Advani at Samastipur during later's rath yatra to Ayodhya and presented himself as a secular leader.[22] The World Bank lauded his party for its work in the 1990s on the economic front.[23] In 1993, Yadav adopted a pro-English policy and pushed for the re-introduction of English as a language in school curriculum, contrary to the angrezi hatao (banish English) policy of then Uttar Pradesh CM Mulayam Singh Yadav, another Yadav and caste based politician. Policy of opposition to English was considered an anti-elite policy since both the Yadav leaders represented Dalit and minority communities.

And he supports inglis education also.

[kapilrdave]

Did not realize that I shared a telepathic link with you. Was thinking of this while driving to the office, this morning. Could not post due to lack of net access.

Sorry! But promise me that you will go to a long drive next time when you are thinking about a post which will qualify for the best post thread .

[Comer]

Kejirwal is being built by the media and the same media will pull him down when it gets the chance.

[svenkat]

BRF mullahs,
Congress has announced inquiry by retd SC judge on 'snoopgate'. Any inside news? If it turns out that NaMo was 'spying because of love interest',this can get nasty given that privacy is an important issue and we are talking of a woman here.Your thoughts?

[LakshO]

Unless I am missing something AAP's effect is going to be limited to the NCR region.

I don't see AK walking to any galli/mohallah in the rest of India, with a jhadoo in hand, promising to reduce electricity bills by 50% and increase water supply to 700L/day. People have seen a lot of these promises made.

[abhik]

kejri is a IIT chhaap laloo, nothing more.

Lallu is NOT illiterate.
Wiki:

He studied Bachelor of Laws and a Master in Political Science from B. N. College, Patna University.

+1, It a pejorative and sometimes seen wrt NaMo too. As long as the cat catches the mice what, how does it matter what college it went to?

[member_20317]

BRF mullahs,
Congress has announced inquiry by retd SC judge on 'snoopgate'. Any inside news? If it turns out that NaMo was 'spying because of love interest',this can get nasty given that privacy is an important issue and we are talking of a woman here.Your thoughts?

I am rather confident that it was all a 'I spy you spy' game which the guy with Chappan ki Chaati maxed with flying colors leaving two dumb idiotic brothers licking their wounds. Saying anything beyond would amount to jumping the gun because nobody really has any details for the simple reason that nobody can ever be sure in a game of intel. Basically everybody could be telling a lie. So the whole point is hypothetical only.

Of the 3 people involved two are confirmed to be in it for intel. What makes you think NaMo did not turn an agent into a double agent? Why must it be an illicit love affair? It could just as easily be a sham love affair. Nahi kya? Feeding wrong information through the two idiots could be one more reason. Are these brothers thought of highly by their respective communities? Hardly.

NaMo has in other but similarly intel-lead contexts, turned people around and done that quite masterfully.

[pradeepe]

http://www.rediff.com/news/report/read- ... 131227.htm

Modi on the riots and the pain. I am yet to see a modern day leader communicate so cogently about leadership and pain. His silence so far and his words now should make the congress mafia hang its head in shame.