Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

M Joshi
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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby M Joshi » 28 Dec 2013 14:05

Reports are that there are posters in the Ramlila Maidan which reads "Aaj ka CM, kal ka PM", "Today's CM, tomorrow's PM".
We all know where this is going. It's time to leave Congress & attack AAP. Congress is anyways finished for 2014.
Talking about the MSM, we did not see more than a 120 sec cut for the three BJP CMs' oath taking ceremony, but are subjected to this 24x7 juggernaut of Kejri who did not even get majority to form the Govt. "Journalists" on tv are saying how this great & honest man Kejriwal has made us forgot the guy who wrote an "apology" letter yesterday, with a condescending smirk on her face. There were so many long camera shots on the supposed one lakh crowd that you could have identified your neighbourhood romeos in that crowd.
From the days of Jantar Mantar fast of Anna I was sceptical about this whole movement based on the media coverage it was getting. Today I got to see what was it for & what the plan was. The grand chess in that 30 sq. km. area called Lyuten's Delhi is indeed grand.

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby krishnan » 28 Dec 2013 14:22

Shilpa ‏@sheefal 3h

Breaking news on MSM: #AAP's AK farted, just like an aam admi. Journalist: Wow! Winds of change has just begun!

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby Supratik » 28 Dec 2013 14:40

I think it is a wrong idea for Modi to target Kejri as he will do to kejri what MSM did to him i.e. bring him into the national limelight. It is better for Delhi BJP to continuously attack him for taking support of Congress after all the big talk. OTOH, I don't know who is advising the Congress but it seems they have just yielded space to the AAP in Delhi in order to keep BJP and NM out. I fear they may turn into another UP, Bihar Congress unit.

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby Comer » 28 Dec 2013 16:20

Yeah keep kejriwal and yogendra tied to Delhi. But that requires aggressive Delhi BJP.

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby Singha » 28 Dec 2013 16:36

dont underestimate the mental ineptitude, defeatism and dhimminess of a lot of our older generation. take my FIL as a example. he thinks Raul is 'sincere and hardworking' based on his fresh faced looks and engrish education. he basically likes anyone with a fairish skin, good soot n boot and engrish and if IIT/IIM so much better. even after I had severely slapped him on the wrist multiple times pointing out the fallacy of his arguments.
and how here is today stuck like a zombie infront of the TV, lapping up the khujli baba opening ceremony.
this is the same class of people who say the english raj was better and more honest and anything indian == not good and are in absolute awe of the goras.

and he is just a typical example. even my late father was somewhat in that mould though not to this extent. many of his friends I interacted with were also like that. these generation are skeptical of any indian success and credulous about any words from the goras or engrish speaking crowd.

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby Supratik » 28 Dec 2013 16:56

The Hindu elite with some exceptions were "Chaprasis" of Muslim and British rulers for at least a 1000 yrs. They were oppressing their own people in favor of the foreigners, sending their women to harems and sometimes even converting to foreign religions. This is the same class which became the ruling elite post-independence. So what better to expect from them.

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby member_20317 » 28 Dec 2013 17:20

M Joshi wrote:Reports are that there are posters in the Ramlila Maidan which reads "Aaj ka CM, kal ka PM", "Today's CM, tomorrow's PM".
We all know where this is going. It's time to leave Congress & attack AAP. Congress is anyways finished for 2014.
Talking about the MSM, we did not see more than a 120 sec cut for the three BJP CMs' oath taking ceremony, but are subjected to this 24x7 juggernaut of Kejri who did not even get majority to form the Govt. "Journalists" on tv are saying how this great & honest man Kejriwal has made us forgot the guy who wrote an "apology" letter yesterday, with a condescending smirk on her face. There were so many long camera shots on the supposed one lakh crowd that you could have identified your neighbourhood romeos in that crowd.
From the days of Jantar Mantar fast of Anna I was sceptical about this whole movement based on the media coverage it was getting. Today I got to see what was it for & what the plan was. The grand chess in that 30 sq. km. area called Lyuten's Delhi is indeed grand.


By attacking AAP you risk getting seen as giving a way out to Congress. That is what they want.

My suggestion is to attack AAP+Congress combine the way we combine Pakistan+China. Which in any case is the truth at the highest levels where coalitions get decided. Doing that would be the right antidote for AAP's counter propaganda of BJP = = Congress. Let the people decide who is = = Congress.

Or so at least I believe.

This Aaj ka CM kal a PM is going on for quite sometime. But this seems only to divert attention. Instead of diverting attention BJP supporters online and Delhi BJP, should treat both as one and the same and tell exactly that to the people. I have tried that and it rankles the hardcore AAP walas who want to see AK-47 as PM now.
Last edited by member_20317 on 28 Dec 2013 17:22, edited 1 time in total.

Singha
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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby Singha » 28 Dec 2013 17:21

Supratik wrote:The Hindu elite with some exceptions were "Chaprasis" of Muslim and British rulers for at least a 1000 yrs. They were oppressing their own people in favor of the foreigners, sending their women to harems and sometimes even converting to foreign religions. This is the same class which became the ruling elite post-independence. So what better to expect from them.


more than that, its the combine of MSM, nehruvian socialism leading to decades of economic failure and sickularism that totally destroyed their confidence.

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby Supratik » 28 Dec 2013 17:25

That would be true for the followers but the elite largely derive from that class as I mentioned.

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby member_20317 » 28 Dec 2013 17:27

Kaala Angrez. heh heh. Got these guys in my own extended family too. One of the younger variety once told me at workplace - Tu angrezi mein public speaking kar leta hai, group activities mein aacha contribute kar leta hai par jab tak suited booted nahi rahega tab tak CMD notice nahi karega.

And the surprising thing is our promoter is a hands on guy. Takes cold baths in Delhi ki sardi and runs up and down 22 storeyed buildings being constructed by his company in less then half the time it takes the cubicle walas, in hot summers.

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby subhamoy.das » 28 Dec 2013 18:57

Realistically i feel that PAAP will be able to deliver on caging the babus. That's all. It is a low hanging fruit and has no dependencies on other entities and was their mission via the jan lok pal bill. As the days will roll by expect sharp attacks mounting from BJP on their failed promises and nexus with corrupt congress. Expect a few PAAP folks losing "faith in AK and regaining faith in NAMO" and giving BJP the 4 heads that they need.

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby Singha » 28 Dec 2013 19:06

if we deconstruct the MSM/Congi/jholawalla campaign pretty much everything against Namo falls into one or more of the buckets
http://static4.fjcdn.com/comments/Sorry ... c55aaa.jpg

Image

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby gashish » 28 Dec 2013 19:08

Educated voters who voted for AAP in Delhi didnt just vote for freebies. They voted for something (hope?) that Delhi-BJP couldn't provide. It will be ill-advised for national BJP team to ignore AAP/AK considering it to be a local NCR phenomenon.

To use yum bee yay analogy, AAP is like a start-up with disruptive technology proposition (anti-establishment clean politics). It also has a good marcom machine (MSM, SM). What they truly lack is resources to build strong go-to-market plans (GOTV) reaching consumers (voters). If it can rent resources of or or gets financed by a big corporate (Congress) thru alliance (could be behind the scene unholly alliance), then it can be a threat to BJP.

Based on anecdotal instances, AK's oath ceremony and his speech have been well received, even in 2nd/3rd tier towns. I spoke to couple of my friends in Marathwada(MH) & Pune, they seem to be gungho about this guy and wish him to be PM. Arguments are simple: this guy is clean, honest, led his team to victory. Both our local BJP and NCP/COngi leaders are corrupt. So why not give him a chance? However, there is no big presence of AAP org here yet.

This is how my conversation with one of my friends who is aspirational went:
Lets say you have your house cleaned fully by jhaadu. You also get free water and electricity. Setting aside for now who is going to pay for free water/electricity, what next? Is that all you wanted?. Did you not want a loan from the bank so that you could start that business and be successful? If yes, how is AAP/AK policies going to help you there? This is where AAP supporters dont have answers. Constructive & developmental policies. AAP's achilles heel and NaMo's strength.

So BJP needs to hit at the root of AAP, by showing how AAP's propisition is bogus and unsustainable in very simple terms. AAP's voter-base, even educated, do not really understand the difference between "free-market economics" vs "entitlement based socialism". These are big words. They have to be simplified and relatable.This segment of voters doesn't really give a serious thought to national security or jihadi terrorism. Batla house encounter/kashmir referendum itiyaadi arguments wont make a dent. Calling AAP, congress's B team also has limited effect in my experience. Hit them where they are weakest.
JMHTs. Back to lurk mode.

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby Singha » 28 Dec 2013 19:22

kumar vishwas has not been allocated a portfolio . looks like he will be retained as the ahmed patel of the AAP for back office work maybe.

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby anchal » 28 Dec 2013 20:32

my hypothesis is asp support base overlaps with chetan bhagat's. very easy to digest simplistic ideas which give the receptors a sense of having achieved something worthwhile. if aap has risen bjp leadership in delhi's responsible. please remember no public support from sushma lka et al to modi exoneration yet

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby RajeshA » 28 Dec 2013 20:51

Supratik wrote:I think it is a wrong idea for Modi to target Kejri as he will do to kejri what MSM did to him i.e. bring him into the national limelight. It is better for Delhi BJP to continuously attack him for taking support of Congress after all the big talk. OTOH, I don't know who is advising the Congress but it seems they have just yielded space to the AAP in Delhi in order to keep BJP and NM out. I fear they may turn into another UP, Bihar Congress unit.


ravi_g wrote:By attacking AAP you risk getting seen as giving a way out to Congress. That is what they want.

My suggestion is to attack AAP+Congress combine the way we combine Pakistan+China. Which in any case is the truth at the highest levels where coalitions get decided. Doing that would be the right antidote for AAP's counter propaganda of BJP = = Congress. Let the people decide who is = = Congress.

Or so at least I believe.

This Aaj ka CM kal a PM is going on for quite sometime. But this seems only to divert attention. Instead of diverting attention BJP supporters online and Delhi BJP, should treat both as one and the same and tell exactly that to the people. I have tried that and it rankles the hardcore AAP walas who want to see AK-47 as PM now.


IMVHO, I think this is a wrong approach.

BJP would lose all credibility if they build their strategy on AAP == Congress! The reason are
  1. AAP is simply the bigger player in Delhi now
  2. AAP would continue to curse Congress for its corruption, including the Dynasty. Congress would continue to give AAP support.

What is taking place here is "Operation Cannibalize"!

Dynasty is changing their cars. Leaving the broken Congress behind and shifting their assets to their new car: AAP.

We should forget Congress as being the primary ideological opponent, the one setting the ideological agenda. The Congress is now every local leader for himself though having to put up with the nautanki of Shehzada. People in the country would vote Congress only because of the local candidate.

People's anger is directed to the Congress, so of course NaMo and BJP would have to keep attacking it and they would have to put up the right candidates and so on. But NaMo would have to deal with AAP.

And for that he needs a credible way to sell that Sonia is feeding the carcass of Congress to her new baby AAP.

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby rajithn » 28 Dec 2013 20:53

Singha wrote:kumar vishwas has not been allocated a portfolio . looks like he will be retained as the ahmed patel of the AAP for back office work maybe.


He is the most dangerous of the lot. He will, most likely, play a behind the scenes role.

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby Atish » 28 Dec 2013 21:03

I love NaMo and hate Prashant Bhushan type leftists. But....

I had tears in my eyes when the young Rakhi Birla (actually from Valmiki tribe rather than a Pilani Birla), gave a full throated Vande Mataram and Bharat Mata ki Jai before taking oath of office. Maybe I was being fanciful but I detected passion and idealism in that voice. Kudos to AK 47 for decimating Congress, for bringing corruption center stage and not the least for solid people like Manish Sisodiya and Rakhi Birla.

NaMo is a blessing sure but AK is not a curse.

Atish.

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby krishnan » 28 Dec 2013 21:16

ॐ Ramesh ॐ ‏@rameshnswamy 43m

Dr @Swamy39 Will mr clean #Shri420 @ArvindKejriwal make public the gift he got from Amar Singh? #Pajero

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby kish » 28 Dec 2013 21:18

Singha wrote:kumar vishwas has not been allocated a portfolio . looks like he will be retained as the ahmed patel of the AAP for back office work maybe.


He has several disadvantages. 1) His english is pathetic 2) makes juvenile arguments in twitter conversation 3) Highly emotional , just mentioning a few.

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby krishnan » 28 Dec 2013 21:41

someone has given an complaint against IUML to prezident , dunno what it is about as i only watched it partially, some muslim lady was on tv , telling it

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby vivek.rao » 28 Dec 2013 21:56

They only way you deal with AAP is for NaMO to keep talking about Jobs, Growth, Governance, Infrastructure, Institutions and National security

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby apoorv » 28 Dec 2013 23:52

AAP and NaMo have been a blessing for India. Within a year whole political scenario is changing. How neta are behaving has changed.
I know AAP can lead to Congi coming back to power. But it is for the second time (after 1977) that people have broken the back of arrogant netas.

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby VikramS » 29 Dec 2013 00:12

After the Delhi results were announced I had said that AK should be kept out of power at all costs.

BJP made a strategic mistake by not staking a claim to make a govt.

AK's appointment has done the following:

1. Convinced the angry masses that AAP is legit.
2. Provided the media with an excuse to tom-tom AAP 24x7
3. Enthused the core AAP volunteer base that they are fighting a winning battle

Gadkari sounded very sour in his speech. He was perfectly right.

But completely against the public mood.

The plot is being lost a bit; someone needs to take charge and put it back.

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby JohnTitor » 29 Dec 2013 00:26

^^ BJP forming the govt wonm't change the fact that AAP has 28 seats. At least they can be chastised now that they are in power

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby VikramS » 29 Dec 2013 00:31

Shonu wrote:^^ BJP forming the govt wonm't change the fact that AAP has 28 seats. At least they can be chastised now that they are in power


Irrelevant. They will make all the right noises till the LS polls.

They now have the initiative and can do whatever is needed to meet the larger goal.

BJP has lost the initiative; can only respond. And the way Gadkari responded it is clear that they have little to do except react.

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby Gus » 29 Dec 2013 00:33

bjp had no choice, with no simple majority even if they got everyone except aap and congress. what could they possibly have done? horse trade?

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby VikramS » 29 Dec 2013 00:55

Gus wrote:bjp had no choice, with no simple majority even if they got everyone except aap and congress. what could they possibly have done? horse trade?


Why not?

What do you think AAP was doing while the "SMS Poll" was going on?

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby Vayutuvan » 29 Dec 2013 01:57

Wishing all the best to Delhi CM AK. New non-entrenched people need a chance to prove their mettle.

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby Gus » 29 Dec 2013 02:08

VikramS wrote:
Why not?

What do you think AAP was doing while the "SMS Poll" was going on?


AAP got support from congress to make over the half way mark.

are you suggesting bjp doing the same?

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby RajeshA » 29 Dec 2013 02:43

Gus wrote:
VikramS wrote:
Why not?

What do you think AAP was doing while the "SMS Poll" was going on?


AAP got support from congress to make over the half way mark.

are you suggesting bjp doing the same?


After BJP had refused the offer to form a govt in Delhi and after Congress had pledged unconditional support to AAP, and after Kejriwal had chosen to become the CM, then was the right time to break Congress. 5 of their MLAs should have been bought. These MLAs could have formed a new party. They could have given the excuse that Sonia Gandhi is not their leader as she forsake Delhi Congress and instead supported AAP.

Nobody would have pointed fingers at BJP as they refused to form the govt initially citing political morality. Also Kejriwal opted to take help of Congress, so he could not say, that BJP is wrong to accept the support of "ex-"Congress MLAs.

With 5 Congress MLAs, BJP could have then formed a coalition, where the 5 had accepted BJP's manifesto.

Now after forming the govt. Kejriwal would look like a martyr, whom the Congress pulled down.

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby Srivastav » 29 Dec 2013 04:08

Awesome post johnyg sir

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby ramana » 29 Dec 2013 04:19

RajeshA, Precisely what I was thinking. Even now the Congress MLAs can be induced to not vote for the AAP budget.

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby RajeshA » 29 Dec 2013 04:27

ramana wrote:RajeshA, Precisely what I was thinking. Even now the Congress MLAs can be induced to not vote for the AAP budget.


These MLAs don't have any share in power. They are not in govt. Best would be for them to take the plunge now, before Kejriwal finds a reason to become a martyr.

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby muraliravi » 29 Dec 2013 06:43

http://www.sunday-guardian.com/news/con ... aharashtra am not reading on aap anymore, here is the big news

No more bandwidth to aap. Modi will have hard time cracking maharashtra

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby member_20317 » 29 Dec 2013 07:51

ramana wrote:RajeshA, Precisely what I was thinking. Even now the Congress MLAs can be induced to not vote for the AAP budget.


ramana garu it is no more about AAP budget. They have been preparing the grounds, in public, with public announcements, to dilute their promises, to buy time, to bury accountability in emotionalism. OTOH they know they can subsidize enough to be able to stave off criticism from within the AAP supportbase.

I think I will have your agreement if I claim that the larger India has considerably lesser MSM dependency than Delhi and considerably lesser accumulated karma than Delhi. Hence BJP has great to good chances elsewhere. The arguments are about ring fencing the SM affected constituencies. Constituencies where 2-10% votes can be affected by 'promises simplciter of innovative AAP vs. accumulated bad karma of BJP'. AAP is not going to come out of Delhi, now that all their big guns are enjoying offices (Damocles sword and all). AK in my suspicion is preparing ground to be the next MMS for RaGa. Remeber RaGa considers power the same as poison. And that was taught to him by his Mother who through her deeds has proven how 'sacrificing' she is, how 'considerate of people's emotions' she can be and how 'successful' she can be. Nandan Nilekani is just a diversionary tactic. Remember MMS had the prime handicap of being a lameduck. Well AK is not lame duck he is a powerhouse. Remember the criticism leveled against BJP, by AAP supporters are exactly what are leveled by Congressis so far. Only now do these criticism have the credibility flowing to them. Up until now they were suspect for many different reasons.

This is no more about the Congress. Because Congress everywhere is emotionally breaking up. Delhi Congress is a divided house. Delhi Congress (MCD party) had already broken up last round. Rajasthan Congress saw fisticuffs and allegations on the foundation day of Congress, yesterday. In UP the erstwhile Congress B teams, do not want to touch congress. MSM and Cobra Gulail Sting industry has been blackmailing NCP on the irrigation & dams related misadventures for about 2 years now.

AK's swearing in day, AK's replies to questions put up by DVS fellow are all to signal to the die hard congressi, which way he should be working. The old line congressi is still waiting while the new line congressi is working away for AAP.

BJP has both time and space expansion working for it within even Delhi (despite all that has been going on for last 3 years). This was more than adequately borne out by the CVoter exit polls which were quite comprehensive. Only the places inhabited by the clueless & exploited (jhopadpatti) and the areas inhabited by emotionally drained (chi chi areas) have voted for AAP. This is a new political constituency coming up before our very eyes. The guilt tripping and the short circuiting of the expected praayaschit, all of it ably lead by people who have used these tactics for ages now.

But the criticism of AAP or even that of AK will not work. Do not go the Roman way of crucifying the christ. I do that but I have already admitted I enjoy a polemical/confrontation approach (a matter of personal choice). SM enabled, BJP supporters and cadre must now start working on the subtler aspects of these emotionally charged debate by highlighting the inherent contradictions without being emotionally charged themselves. Make a laughing stock of this new Messiaha. Give the new Messiha ample room so you do not get tagged as the Pontius Pilate. OTOH take out Congress with copious nationalistic issues available (witness the angst of Gehlot on BJP running him down on national issues). SM can realistically affect all metros probably around 100+ seats. A vicious MSM+SM campaign for these seats has been signaled already by Delhi elections. That is why the other side keeps mentioning the slogans like 'Aaj Ramlila kal Lalkila'/'Aaj ka CM kal ka PM'/'sacrificing the poison of power'. That is why the 'empowerment of the church & christ for the greater good of the mass' kind of strategy that AAP+AK are playing out on behalf of their benefactors.

The giving up of pawns to strike at the opponent's queen may be a good strategy sometimes but nobody does that when there is no queen to be struck at. For last so many years Sonia has avoided all criticism of the masses by installing a puppet and using the murthi to direct the criticism that rightfully should be going her way. Lets not fall for this trickery again.

I am sorry to be contributing to more heart burn for some here. Request you to kindly bear me on these. I am mentioning these things only because I believe almost all of you people can handle it and bring something onboard.

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby rohiths » 29 Dec 2013 08:48

Right now is the honeymoon period for AAP. By April the honey moon will be over. Hope can become despair very soon. Some sting operation will catch an AAP MLA taking bribe, there will some rape in Delhi, socialist policies will result in power and water shortages.
Congress knows its created a Frankenstein monster and will kill it. Everyone knows how the anti corruption movement got choked. AAP hurts congress much more than BJP. All metro cities are congress strongholds (Congress/UPA swept all metros except Bangalore)

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby subhamoy.das » 29 Dec 2013 10:37

For a moment if we assume PAAP to be really AAP ( and not a congi-b team ) then there is only 1 real winner out of all this, and it is the indic citizens. APP and BJP are two parties whose end goal is same - make india a better place to live in devoid of vote bank politics - good infrastructure, jobs, rule of the law of the land etc. One is taking the anti-corruption route and the other the development route. After a long time we see mega rallies where the crowd is alive with chants of "Bande Mataram" and "Bhart Mata ki Jai" and there is true nationalist emotion in the air. So over all a good 2013 coming to an end and a promising 2014 is on the horizon for the nation and its citizens and its well wishers.

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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby rohiths » 29 Dec 2013 10:59

There is simply no doubt that AAP is congress B Team. They have no fundamental disagreement with Congress ideology. They believe in socialism, secularism and feudalism. Top AAP leaders were always cosy with the congress. Arvind Kejriwal wanted to join NAC and was close to Aruna Roy. Yogendra Yadav was a political advisor to pappu and Prashant Bhushan was always against the BJP. Every time a general election comes up a new party springs up. In 2009 it was MNS and PRP. In 2014 it is AAP.
They have made corruption into a moral issue and have taken the moral high ground. Corruption is not a moral issue but an economic issue. It arises when people who have the power to allocate resources use the power to generate economic rents. It arises when one group of people get resources much cheaper than the other. Any cursory look at AAP policies demonstrate that they increase corruption not decrease it. Giving power at 50% lower prices will encourage theft. Giving free water encourages wastage and theft. Having a strong lokpal ensures no govt officer takes any decision. The problem India has is that government is all pervasive. We need less govt and not more of the same thing

Virendra
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Re: Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Postby Virendra » 29 Dec 2013 10:59



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