AP Politics and runup to 2014 General elections

[LakshO]

When assembly comes back from the Christmas & New Year break on Jan 3, they'll take up the Bill.
...
Heard on Twitter, many Congress MLAs 80+ would be resigning from AP Assembly. Just a rumor.

Heard Rajagopal Lagadapati, LS MP from Vijayawada, a AP CongI heavyweight and staunch protagonist of united AP, say on TV that more than 70+ CongI MLAs (including ministers) from coastal districts will leave the party after 23rd January, 2014.

I don't think CongI MLAs & MPs will get their deposits back, come May 2014 Not one leader will consent to stand elections on the CongI symbol. CongI high command will literally beg no-namers to stand for elections so that the national party can be seen to contest (naam-ke-vaaste).

[devesh]

మా మద్దతే కీలకం

http://www.sakshi.com/news/andhra-prade ... aisi-92847

[devesh]

-recently, MIM announced they are going to contest more seats from Hyderabad.
---it's the oil drop theory at work: many seats that they want to contest in Secunderabad have increased Muslim population over past 20 years.
---expect to see MIM playing a spoiler role in those seats: i.e. the new political dispensation post-bifurcation will have to come to terms with the electoral reality and cede more space in Hyd, and some constituencies in Nizamabad to MIM.

[devesh]

also, both Owaisi's still are refusing to support T-bill. they are against it, that's for sure.

[ramana]

Is there an AAP type party to be created in AP?

[LakshO]

Is there an AAP type party to be created in AP?

I thought JPN's Lok Satta was something similar in AAP's mould. Truth be told, LSP predates the new kid on the block . Also, there is no comparison between AK & JPN.

[Yagnasri]

Loksatta has long record before becoming a party. JP although was close to Manmohan was open and hard on mafia doings in AP.

[RajeshA]

Is there an AAP type party to be created in AP?

YSRCP

both controlled by Sonia Gandhi & Friends!

[Vamsi.R]

Is there an AAP type party to be created in AP?

YSRCP

both controlled by Sonia Gandhi & Friends!

[Muppalla]

Loksatta has long record before becoming a party. JP although was close to Manmohan was open and hard on mafia doings in AP.

JP is also a non-sense. He had same ideologies as FOIL type lefties. When there were blasts in Gokul Chat and Lumbhini park, he said no-comments instead of condemnation. Non-communist left is far more dangerous and worse than communists.

All these ex-babus like JP or AK are for big government with too many layers of babus. The Lokpal and lokayukta is just creating more jobs to ex-babus, judges etc. They are creating a system of by the babus, for the babus and to the babus in the garb of let us remove corruption.

People have smaller memories but I still remember when he actually formed the LokSatta. It was when CBN was removing departments, downsizing the government. His initial supporters are all AP government employees. But these junkies cannot get popularity with just their actual agendas and hence they get into catching what the educated commoners like.

What India needs is more private jobs and less government interference. All these junkies are too quite on such solutions because their movers and shakers what fingers in everything so that they can manipulate the system.

There are layers of NAC both official and unofficial. Sonia creating a masterpiece called as NAC needs to delved deeper. May be anti-nationals thread. OT for this topic.

[Vayutuvan]

Muppalla, you have made several good points that are true on the surface - I grant you that T people ("gedelu" or in T "vAdi" "non-pure" Telugu "barrelu") are lazy (no there is no need to use euphemisms). The reasons are historical (modern - not old history) but as far as intellect goes they are no slouches.

------------------------------
Lilo ji: We can go deeper and deeper till cows come home but that does not change the fact that SA people who had been staying (mainly) in Hyderabad have "othered" the locals so effectively that the relationship seems to be broken beyond repair. Even if the break is prevented today the ensuing peace is only temporary. SA contractors are sure to go back to "business as usual", i.e. cornering all PWD and R&B contracts by means fair or foul. The fact is that even if bribes are offered to the RDOs/Collectors == the bribes offered by SAs, contracts were not given to T "vadis".

barrelu, though lazy, are not stupid. They know down to an individual animal that a leopard, which hunts through stealth when the prey is not looking, cannot change its spots. Some vilayati trained leopards have put on lion costumes where as the Nizami leopards have become emaciated vixen. Vilayati leopards trained in divide-and-conquer tactics can hunt goDlu to extinction with no competition from local leopards turned pusillanimous vixen but their hubris is not letting them see their own extinction from their increasingly wasteful bacchanalia of feasting on the barre carcasses. They would have no more barrelu to put on the spit in a few years.

In the interest of both species, the need of the day it to spread the faux lion population evenly over the jungle. Food pyramid needs to be sustained so that all animals (including pigs - who were more equal during a bygone era) can prosper.

Unfortunately it has come to pass that barrelu had to make a fleeting pact with a pack of hyenas to stave off their extinction. As long as the leopards are recalcitrant the hold of heynas on barrelu is going to increase. If status quo is maintained, a day will come when hyenas, having gathered enough numbers, will challenge the ersatz lion prides. Hope the head of these faux lion prides recognize this and act as leopards rather than lions which they are not.

[devesh]

^^^

it's not like T has an easy path. the old devils were allowed to submerge themselves under the "samaikhya" rubric. they will resurface again. there is a battle ahead. the unfinished one that was fought against Razakars and their Hindu allies.

[Vayutuvan]

Oh one more thing - an advise to the elite - please leave some of the hard working well-fed gedelu from which you people draw strength and a few gangireddulu for entertainment.

After all barrelu and gedelu are the same species but told they are different. They are onto the fact that they are the same same as far being hunted by the assorted lions, leopards, and hyenas - onlee.

More later as I have to get off my lazy as* and get back to earn a living (and create "wealth" )

[ramana]

^^^

it's not like T has an easy path. the old devils were allowed to submerge themselves under the "samaikhya" rubric. they will resurface again. there is a battle ahead. the unfinished one that was fought against Razakars and their Hindu allies.

Last week hosted a prominent Telangana family on a tour of US visiting relatives. The sub-text was the bolded part. They are from Warangal district. The head of family is quiet person and said razakars are rehabilitated with help from Congress leadership which is mostly from Rayalseema and Andhra.

What I surmised was if separation occurs there will be multiple ways that status quo ante will be restored and log line of hisab settled.


Matrimc, I think it was Lilo and not Mupalla.

[ShyamSP]

^^^

it's not like T has an easy path. the old devils were allowed to submerge themselves under the "samaikhya" rubric. they will resurface again. there is a battle ahead. the unfinished one that was fought against Razakars and their Hindu allies.

"Nizam rule was beautiful" KCR was only sideshow? So actual T movement was to settle old score, which was neither never "settled" nor "scored" because of non-T Andhras? What happened to Andhras erasing Nizami culture except for Biriyani? How else T would have erased, "Banchen Dora", "Salaam Saheb" culture?

Muppalla, you have made several good points that are true on the surface - I grant you that T people ("gedelu" or in T "vAdi" "non-pure" Telugu "barrelu") are lazy (no there is no need to use euphemisms).

Barre/Barregoddu is common usage than Gedhe/Enumu across AP. It is neither T- word nor non-pure usage. Let's cut the crap of taking Telugu word and splitting it as Telangana or non-Telangana.

Purity and non-purity is how corrupted the Telugu word is regardless of which area corrupts the word. Barre and Gedhe both are pure Telugu.
Telanaga Telugu is more urdu'ized. Other Telugu had more evolution. That is the only difference.

[Muppalla]

Oh one more thing - an advise to the elite - please leave some of the hard working well-fed gedelu from which you people draw strength and a few gangireddulu for entertainment.

After all barrelu and gedelu are the same species but told they are different. They are onto the fact that they are the same same as far being hunted by the assorted lions, leopards, and hyenas - onlee.

More later as I have to get off my lazy as* and get back to earn a living (and create "wealth" )

sir jee why do you include me between all those dangerous ones?

[devesh]

Banchen dora was destroyed by communists. Go to any remote village in telangana today. Do you think there is a single Velama who has the audacity to go to their former strongholds and demand that language again? The commies became a twisted bunch in the last generation or so. But until the Emergency, they were an idealistic bunch. The arrogant assumption of the doras that they could continue their tyranny was broken by the Left rebels. That generation has my utmost respect for that.

[Vayutuvan]

It is neither T- word nor non-pure usage. Let's cut the crap of taking Telugu word and splitting it as Telangana or non-Telangana.
...
Telanaga Telugu is more urdu'ized. Other Telugu had more evolution. That is the only difference.

I am driving home the point that every language evolves. One stream of thought is Telugu is a form of Kannada. But if you go to Adilabad (or Karimnagar just south of Godavari) there are a lot of Marathi words in their Telugu (and Marathi culture in their day to day lives). Any evolution is just evolution - neither good nor bad - unless a component culture (and language) is looked down upon. That is how it started. I remember all the funny "leg-pulling" katahlu in Yuva, Swati, Prabha and Patrika from around 70's making "fun" of T telugu when the SA people had their first brush with urduized telugu of Hyderabad. The tone is set - self-deprecating humor is different from "mean, putting-down" kind of leg-pulling of those days. The latter is the first step in of othering and show who is the boss. Of course, "sthAna balimi" also counts for something, no?

By the way, one branch of my ancestors are from kAluvAya who started on a journey to kAshI and went north straight up. They never reached kAshI but setteld on the banks of Narmada. May be they encountered all the sikhs setteled there and thought that narmada s ganga. Another set started frokm Nasik to perform a gOdAvari pradakshiNa and somewhere along the way found a "vEyi kadapa" brAhmaNa agrahAram along the banks and settled there. Today kAluvAya branch's mother tongue is hindi (though they still have some Seema culture left in them) and the Nasik branch's mother tongue is Telugu with a lot of Marathi words thrown in. Another branch of ancestors came to my native place even before these two other branches from konkaN (in late 17th century). They are even more integrated and consider themselves Telugu people. Who has the right to say what they speak is impure Telugu? East and West Godavari people? But with high probability they also would have inter-married with the Nasik/Triamabakeshwar godavari pradakshiNa marathas who went further down river.

I don't think there is any cr*p that needs to be cut other than "othering" some people from a homogeneous group and try to exploit the situation but cover it up using some cuckoo untenable linguistic and cultural differences. Once people catch on the gates of Bastille will be thrown open. Or may be it has already happened going by the amount of ideological import from Naxalbari into Chattisgadh, beedi leaf producing jungles of Karimnagar and Warangal along the banks of Maneru.

[SaiK]

that would sound funny - AP-AAP or AAP-AP.

[ShyamSP]

Banchen dora was destroyed by communists. Go to any remote village in telangana today. Do you think there is a single Velama who has the audacity to go to their former strongholds and demand that language again? The commies became a twisted bunch in the last generation or so. But until the Emergency, they were an idealistic bunch. The arrogant assumption of the doras that they could continue their tyranny was broken by the Left rebels. That generation has my utmost respect for that.

That was my point. It was Visalandhra communists whether from T or Delta areas destroyed it. It is Visalandhra people destroying Nizami culture. Current T-movement people are just fakers and wanting to settle "scores" and complete "unfinished" business as slogans.

"othering" some people from a homogeneous group and try to exploit the situation but cover it up using some cuckoo untenable linguistic and cultural differences.

The talk of this type of "othering" is silly or artificial whether either side do it. While you argue like this, Devesh doesn't agree when some say Karminagar to Godavari they are same people and are under same kingdoms.

It is artificial to argue under fake differences, fake histories, and fake political ideologies.

[devesh]

matrimc ji,

I don't agree that "good" and "bad" are qualities that cannot be ascribed to "evolution". think about it. that's a dangerous slippery slope. even Islamic Jihad and EJ virulence are just "evolutions" then. slippery slope. but I think in this case of language, I think I get the point your are trying to make. peace.

[devesh]

ShyamSP,

actually, the drivers of the T-movement today don't even speak of settling any scores. KCR and TRS, including the T-JAC, have essentially remained mum or outright whitewashed the record of Islamic rule. no, for them, it is better if people forget all about it and ask no scores.

that's why I said there will be a "battle". the main enemies are not even the Ashraf fantasizers of Islamic-empire-in-Deccan. their Hindu allies will be the real enemy in the future.

[devesh]

an observation from my conversations and "talks" with those who are part of the "driving" group of T:

in olden days, according to anecdotal evidence, these guys used to go on tirades in putting down the "participation" of the lower orders. contempt and disdain would be openly displayed.

they don't do that anymore. they are forced to cloak their essential hatred of the "lowers", no matter how much they hate their weakness. this is irreversible progress. the kind of progress that was paid with blood and sweat of idealistic fighters.

[Vayutuvan]

sir jee why do you include me between all those dangerous ones?

Muppalla (garu - no idea you are younger or older ): Correcting the OP forthwith (my mistake to think that "lazy" post triggered the water buffalo post of Lilo ji).

[Lilo]

Martimc ji,
subject: message from the so called “elite”...

”Barrelu” is the more common word used in the actual buffaloe rearing communities(and even in the rest) both in seema and kostha. Only those who are not too familiar with buffaloes or buffaloe rearing use the term “gedhe”.
informing you Just so that you can update your “elite” t-wadi dictionery compiled from 70’s telugu (allegedly always onesided) legpulling magazines.
ordinary buffaloe rearing guy would not have made this mistake as you did as he knows his counterparts in rest of the state use the same lingo as he does. As buffaloe rearing in the past involved more “crossing over” into “other” sides for grazing activities than most other professions. So either you are an elite buffaloe rearing guy yourself or not at all familiar with buffaloe rearing or most probably you only purchased packet milk from vijaya dairy during your sourjons into SA never seeing a real buffaloe driven into your porch daily and milked in front of you by a “seemandhra” buffaloe milker?

Language(culture too) develops as a continum. The cultural hearth has its influence diminishing with distance gravitationally upto its peripheries - till the other cultural hearth begins to sway. This is the case in marathi influenced border districts of T in AP. Same is the case with border districts of orissa with AP like brahmpur, rayagada etc where otherwise telugu people become bilingual speaking both telugu and oriya. same in anantapur-bellary bilingual in kannada and Telugu. same in tirupath-chennai bilingual in tamil-telugu.
so. obviously words transpose themselves from one language to another over time near cultural borders.

when there are no geographical barriers separating component regions of AP how telugu culture be regionally fragmented as is clamied? it will show more features of an unbroken continum as reflected by facts on ground.

Btw matrimc ji why are you referring to people as if they are animals in your serious arguments?
Seriously, If i had described a buffaloe drinking water from right bank of river godavari in khammam those dabbling in outrage politics here will try to bring out similarities with people and will say iam referring to T-SA water wars?

please to not conflate (or use) Tvadi kancha illaiahs “dalit” buffaloe nationalism terminology on AP issues. My buffaloe parody is antithethical both in message and purpose and strictly referred to buffaloes as anyone with even little familiarity with buffaloes (and from AP) would have understood it - as it is - some utter nonsense on buffaloes based on dummy premises mocking behavioural theories being created on (at many levels more complex) human beings inhabiting the AP state, here in this thread.

Regarding “othering” by T people of SA people in hyderabad( as claimed by matrimc ji) wonder if cowherds in khammam, nalgonda have also othered their counterparts “across borders” in guntur krishna - may be you can farmaoe an opinion on this also.

[Vayutuvan]

Lilo ji: I have milked a buffalo. Have you?

Err - a water buffalo - my bad.

[Lilo]

yeah i have.
but the right question here would be... have you interacted with people in SA enough to confidently (as you say) claim that “they” refer to buffaloes as ”gedhe” and not as ”barre”?

[Vayutuvan]

Absolutely. How long have you spent in Andhra region of AP vis-a-vis Hyderabad?

[ShyamSP]

yeah i have.
but the right question here would be... have you interacted with people in SA enough to confidently (as you say) claim that “they” refer to buffaloes as ”gedhe” and not as ”barre”?

These are Telugu words for Buffalo. Infact, Barre is wrong word to show regional differences
=========
Female - Male
=========
Barre - Barregoddu
Gedhe - Gedhe
Enumu - Enumpothu
Dunna - Dunnapothu


Here is one common difference you notice, if you travel from say Tirupathi to Hyderabad in Trains. From Tirupathi to roughly Kavali, you hear snack sellers yelling "Sennakayalu". From Ongole to Khamman, you hear "Veru Senagalu". As you come to Kazipet, you start hearing "Palli".

Here is another example and in fact influence of T on non-T. it used to be only "kafi, tea" in very old days. But now, you hear "kafi, tea, chai" when you reach Tirupathi.

"Palli" "chai" are uniquely T words.

[hanumadu]

Telangana was more destitute than other parts of AP, hence the moneyed class(specifically landlords) had absolute sway over the farm labour. How do they address the land lords in Telangana today? Don't they call them 'dora' anymore? I am curious as to how they are addressed in the rest of AP. Are they just called by their name? There must be some appellation like garu.

There is no need to pin all the blame on the velamas. All castes are equally guilty. Its more an issue of the haves and the have nots. Anyway velamas are in significant numbers in only two districts, Karimnagar and Warangal. Even here, there are significant number of reddys.

[Lilo]

del personal info - after the post served its purpose.

[vishvak]

Battle with 'hindu allies' is problem in a way, and given the circumstances these allies should be visiting Ganga to wash off sins. Either way battle Andhras will be watched like how invaders watched faithful Hindu allies in Rajasthan fighting battles for invaders & invaders raining arrows on all- each arrow hitting anyone is 'one allie of other side' only less.

[devesh]

ShyamSP,

it's not true that the communists who uprooted the Doras from their strongholds were of "vishalandhra" background.

no, the vast majority of the communists in the 50's, 60's, and 70's who uprooted the Dora stranglehold were Telanganas.

the violent phase of Kosta communism was done by the mid-50's. most of them compromised due to physical coercion/blackmail, or simple bribery and financial incentives.

it is total nonsense to claim that the communists who removed doras from power hailed from all over Andhra Pradesh. nothing could be farther from the truth. they hailed from the very region which was inflicted by the Dora tyranny.

after the union of Hyderabad State and Andhra Pradesh, every last vestige of violent rebellious phase of the Coastal Communism evaporated rapidly. the "interior" wallahs were left high and dry to fight their battles, as always. not that they minded, of course. they rose up to the challenge.

[ramana]

I thought 'dora' was for white people? Since when did landlords get that appellation? In Vizianagarma are tribal leaders are also called "doras' i.e lords.
Eg Mallu Dora who rebelled against the British with Alluri Sitarama Raju garu.

Used to be famous DIG named HY Dora.

[SwamyG]

I thought the word 'durai' or 'dorai' in tamil meant some ruling class chief or overlords. For obvious reasons some of the lords did not spend as much time working as others, and their appearance was better than the commoners - including their complexion and skin tone....for having not to do hard work. I do not know if the etymology is from the British period, or prior to the British period. One of my grand fathers, working in the Munnar Tea Estate acquired the nickname 'Durai' - though he was just some kind of official. I gather he acquired the nick name, because he looked a durai (he used to be handsome in his youth so elders claim).

[devesh]

charting out the careers of Sundarayya and Basavapunniah, two of the more prominent and famous figures in Andhra Communist history, should tell us how things changed in the 50's.

I have no doubt that the India Army's reign of terror had its effect. and also, ultimately, both of the above are from "elite" sections, and thus, even if they had abandoned their kith and kin during their dynamic phase, it would have been quite easy for them to "return to the fold" under the garb of contesting elections.

whether Telangana or Andhra, or any other part of India, this is one things that always plays out: the elite sections which start things off always have a "way back" if things don't pan out. the foot-soldiers, the thousands of commoners who do the heavy-lifting with trust in their leaders, are not so lucky. they don't have any path to "return". they must give up their ideology and go back to being "OK" with compromise. while the leadership basks in the glory of "egalitarian leadership".

[shyamoo]

Used to be famous DIG named HY Dora.

Dora is still used in the villages. At least it still was few years ago in my village near Warangal

I met him few times. His son was my classmate ( 1st to 4th ). It is HJ Dora.

He also used to visit Sathya Sai Baba frequently.

[ramana]

yeah he was my brother's classmate.

[VenkataS]

Yes Dora was used when addressing Velamas even in rural NE AP. Although I do not know if it was only by people working under them.

[gpati]

I apologize for the off-topic post.

1. Why did Buddhism spread like a wild fire in 3rd century B.C in Andhra and why did it fell out of favor by 7th century? Why did it made Telugu people to look outwards?

I am reading maritime history of Andhra. Telugu people were pioneers in spreading Buddhism into South East Asia and establishing colonies/kingdoms there. Many historians claim it was Telugu people who 'civilized' South East Asian primitive cultures. Buddhist monks sailed with merchant ships to four corners of the world to spread Buddhism using arts and crafts (Amaravati Sculpures, Music, and Dance to overcome language barriers). Many Telugu men emigrated from Andhra to foreign lands and married local women and settled there. Merchant ships with 150 - 200 sailors carried agriculture produce(Spices, Silk, Pearls,Textiles, Animals) from coastal Andhra and metal products (Steel and Mining) from Telangana. Ships were constructed using wood mostly without using any metals and had watertight compartments at the bottom level to prevent sinking. Merchandise was simply piled on the ship deck comparable to modern day containers.

Though the historians claim it was a mutually beneficial (symbiotic) relationship, was it same as present day missionaries 'saving' the native populations?

2. Is Dhanasari Gongura (దనాసరీ గోంగూర) same as Gongura (గోంగూర)? It is not native to Andhra and brought to Andhra by seafarers from a region called తెనాస్సరి which is to the east of పెగూ (Pegu) and to the west of సయాం (Sayaam). What are modern names of these regions?

3. Invasion of Muhammd bin Tughluq in 1323 AD and subsequent collapse of Kakateeya Empire had a profound 'shock' effect on Telugu people which can be felt even today - politics, religion, and caste system. Some scholars consider it was Battled of Palanadu which shaped modern Andhra politics. But it was collapse of Kakateeya Empire which shaped modern politics and gave rose to present day castes. Many modern caste names have their origins in administrative tittles given by Kakateeyas successor kingdoms which were not completely hereditary.

Reddy - Title given to head of a farmer society or a tax collector. Origins Raddi - Rastra Kuta.
Kapu - Title given to a tax collector, village police or patrol officer.
Gowda - Synonymous with word Reddy. Origins Grama Kuta.
Kamma - Inhabitants of Karma or Kamma rastra (modern day Baptla - Guntur - Narasaraopeta region) comprising mainly of Shudras and Brahmins.
Velama - Inhabitants of Velanadu (region between Krishna and Penna) comprising mainly of Shudras and Brahmins.
Nayaka or Naidu - Feudal lord .