INS Vikramaditya: News and Discussion

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 04 Jan 2014 13:18

^^^ Wow, what a sight... Waiting years to see such a sight. Shanoo Varuna..

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 04 Jan 2014 13:23

Philip sir, the entire deck and one level below of the Vikky has been widened to create a wide verandah of sorts right of the island.

some barak1 system (now that deal is cleared to buy more) could be sunk into this area like was done in viraat
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-dEGArL-u7r8/U ... Viraat.jpg

I figure some 32 barak1 could be placed there with no issues.

and another 16 at the left corner of the stern
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/imag ... wOwk3Ci38A

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 04 Jan 2014 14:15

The Indian express reports that "Ten Warships including INS Viraat have sailed to welcome INS Vikramaditya home"...
http://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/ ... 979796.ece

That's a (literally) boatload of firepower being displayed... Needless to say, couple of undersea brethren would have also been involved... Under covers off-course.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 04 Jan 2014 14:39

Todays toi has a wonderful pic in navy recruitment ad. Ins chakra at full speed on the surface creating a huge wave. Better than the vik pic imo.

member_25400 · Post by **member_25400** » 04 Jan 2014 16:23

NRao wrote: * The naval doctrine... is clearly based on political thinking - as it should be. However, given the sorry state of Indian political affairs, THAT seems to have reflected on the doctrine itself. That needs to be corrected, else it will place a huge pressure on the Services in general and on the IN in particular. Totally unnecessary and avoidable.

Precisely why one should build institutions whose job is to provide the papers/vision and justification/cases for the future as well as flesh out the options that follow from it. These may be from the ministry, from the defence, defence education, (my preferred) quasi public think-tanks. The political class may provide decisions/leadership, but their focus cannot be the shaping of this strategic thinking. Outsourcing this to an ad-hoc thesis or two is abdicating the responsibility. Without this strategic thinking, political masters have no pressure and no real opposition to overcome.

Another case where indian defence is lacking is professional procurement system. ie.e Setting up the organization for laying down rules, not just for vendors, but for how procurement is to be run, from the requirements provided by a service to the vendor inclusions to negotiation, legal/itself, to a process for waivers. We seem to re-invent this for each procurement.

member_25400 · Post by **member_25400** » 04 Jan 2014 16:48

Saik on C130 for CoD and other roles.

Singha wrote: [C130 ]Its way too big an a/c even for the nimitz class except for emergency ..
even C27 would be too large. the E2/C2 is about the realistic limit.

USS forrestal is a supercarrier, just like nimitz. Vikaramaditya & Vikrant (and viraat heh!) are *much* smaller. The US navy decided C130 was too risky (the pilot got a DFC -medal just for his efforts in taking off and landing). US has cleared/offered the e2d hawkeye for india and northrop grumman provided studies based upon open source to show that they did not need a catobar, (as originally expected) but that it could be used on the gorshkov with the ski jump. The IN while tempted by the mouth watering deal, turned it down for now, as the E2 would have range of just an hour under those circumstances, which did not make sense for an AEW&C aircraft. The c2 is a variant and presumably would also suffer similar payload/range capability.

So even E2/C2 would suffer substantial payload/range penalty. The 65000 tonne catobar carrier is about right size for largish aircraft.

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 04 Jan 2014 17:00

Singha wrote:Philip sir, the entire deck and one level below of the Vikky has been widened to create a wide verandah of sorts right of the island.

and another 16 at the left corner of the stern
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/imag ... wOwk3Ci38A

Singha Ji :

The Vikramaditya seems to have its "Bridge Island" on the Left Side!

Cheers

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 04 Jan 2014 17:17

Singha wrote:the Viraat seems to have a sub-optimal hull form perhaps? the other 3 ships have no visible bow wave or turbulence in the first 3rd of the ship...viraat seem to have a more stubby 'merchant ship' type shape and hence visible white water from the bow itself.

Singha Ji :

The USN ACC “Gerald R/ Ford”

The Viraat is built as a Pure Air Craft Carrier and thus built with a wide beam.

OTOH the Vikramaditya – I reckon - has been built on a “Cruiser Hull”

USN ACC Gerald R. Ford : Length 333 M – Beam 77 M - Waterline : 41 M - Ratio L/WL = 8.1

INS Viramaditya : Length : 284.85 M – Beam : 60 M – Water Line 50 M (Please check as am not sure of R33 Specs) - Ratio L/WL = 5.7

Cheers

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 04 Jan 2014 17:44

does seem to be the case..http://i.imgur.com/bP2KjlX.jpg much more tapering sleek bow section.

however that should impart it a higher top speed by a few knots maybe. maybe have a drag race with the talwar class and r-class ships for fun. it should be able to crush the viraat in a head to head running race.

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 04 Jan 2014 18:20

Singha wrote:does seem to be the case..http://i.imgur.com/bP2KjlX.jpg much more tapering sleek bow section.

however that should impart it a higher top speed by a few knots maybe. maybe have a drag race with the talwar class and r-class ships for fun. it should be able to crush the viraat in a head to head running race.

I guess the disadvantage might be more severe roll in rough weathers? Most probably the operation limits for aircraft takeoffs and landings due to bad weather will always be classified.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 04 Jan 2014 18:39

There have been some unusual concepts in the past for carriers,including catamaran/trimaran concepts.It may be worth examining these concepts again in the near future as newer tech emerges for conformal sensors,smaller UCAVs aboard carriers.The logistic multi-hull designs from Oz have a very high speed and such hulls with flat tops could emerge as useful vessels.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 04 Jan 2014 19:54

Ajother lungi dance moment...
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/i ... 538226.ece

The Hindu reports...

"The other ships besides INS Viraat which had gone to receive INS Vikramaditya included two Delhi class destroyers, three Trishul class stealth frigates, a Godavari class frigate and a couple of offshore vessels."

That is a grand total of 2 Carriers, 3 destroyers, 5 Frigates, a tanker and 3 OPVs. Probably couple of Kilos,Chakra and above all Maritime Patrol Aircrafts tooo...

A sight to watch indeed... Just imagining this gives me shudders. Busy days for Pindi Laundry wallas ahead...

vivek_ahuja · Post by **vivek_ahuja** » 04 Jan 2014 20:31

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 04 Jan 2014 20:34

Seems designed to outshine the liaoning dragon fist cbg pix, anything bigger than harbour tug has set sail in baraati party.

vivek_ahuja · Post by **vivek_ahuja** » 04 Jan 2014 20:38

Singha wrote:Seems designed to outshine the liaoning dragon fist cbg pix, anything bigger than harbour tug has set sail in baraati party.

Also note that we have two carriers in our pics. Just sayin!

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 04 Jan 2014 20:40

..that is an amazing photo. Down below the hanger space is a rabbit warren of cells and hatchways containing bunkers of jet fuel and ammo, a couple of nuclear reactors, living quarters for thousands of men, a hospital, etc. I've heard that some of the sailors stay down in the ship for months on end and never see sunshine. And to think they have been building these things for over fifty years......

I don't know how the government can pay for all of it. I thought of that many times when I was in the Corps and the Marines are an equipment light organization compared to the other services.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 04 Jan 2014 21:28

There is a lift system that brings readied munitions from deep below the ship to hanger deck. Special room is used to check and assemble the weapons like fitting fins and such. Saw this on hms ark royal episode of mighty ships

Ankit Desai · Post by **Ankit Desai** » 04 Jan 2014 22:22

Not full strength but a pic of two carriers with two INS. INS Teg and INS Mumbai.

Courtesy http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/

Excuse me about big size image.

-Ankit

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 04 Jan 2014 22:33

Wow, what a moment - on par with the first pics of our own Akula-II. IN should exploit this with photos of Tu-142, Su-30MKI flybys and Akula surfacing beside.

That fleet there, gentlemen, is a real and operational navy (save for R33 ofcourse) - not a photographer and publicists creation.

Singha wrote:the Viraat seems to have a sub-optimal hull form perhaps? the other 3 ships have no visible bow wave or turbulence in the first 3rd of the ship...viraat seem to have a more stubby 'merchant ship' type shape and hence visible white water from the bow itself.

Surprisingly, neither ship features a bulbous bow. It was removed in the Vikramaditya. What gives?

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 04 Jan 2014 22:36

chackojoseph wrote:2 harriers seen on Viraat. Will they land it on Vikramaditya?

Vikram is fitted out with instrumentation to support SHAR operations. I dont exactly remember the name of the system, but I believe it is a sea harrier specific system to aid VSTOL ops.

It will be interesting to see the Navy progressively work up the ship and flight crews. SHARs and MiGs on deck will be quite a sight!

Eric Leiderman · Post by **Eric Leiderman** » 04 Jan 2014 23:06

The Virat has a Bulbous bow, I am pretty sure the Aditya has one too however will have to dig out photos of her in Dry dock., The Virat in drydock is shown in a previous post in this same forum with her large BB.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 04 Jan 2014 23:15

Eric Leiderman wrote:The Virat has a Bulbous bow, I am pretty sure the Aditya has one too however will have to dig out photos of her in Dry dock., The Virat in drydock is shown in a previous post in this same forum with her large BB.

Eric Leiderman · Post by **Eric Leiderman** » 04 Jan 2014 23:24

u right me x

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 05 Jan 2014 00:55

Singha wrote:Todays toi has a wonderful pic in navy recruitment ad. Ins chakra at full speed on the surface creating a huge wave. Better than the vik pic imo.

Would someone please scan and post this image ?

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 05 Jan 2014 03:08

Anyone has a picture of the Vikramaditya group including the welcome party? I hope the Navy sent out some good PR chaps with good equipment and then launch a PR Blitz around Vikky comeing into port at Karwar!!!

Kapil · Post by **Kapil** » 05 Jan 2014 03:37

Wow, Vicki looks so pretty!
What a fleet.

This explains why there was a Tu 142 operating ex-Bombay last week. AOR sanitisation anyone?

I have embarked and sailed on the viraat,Mumbai and Teg. I am trying to imagine how Vikramaditya must appear along side.

cheers everyone
K

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 05 Jan 2014 05:02

What are the chances that the paki subs are tracking this flotilla from a distance? Was this route (from Red Sea to India's Karwar base) announced earlier?

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 05 Jan 2014 05:09

anupmisra wrote:What are the chances that the paki subs are tracking this flotilla from a distance? Was this route (from Red Sea to India's Karwar base) announced earlier?

It depends. Are you talking about being loaded for bear and war time? Or are you talking about peace time aren't we good looking and please take our pictures?

member_27808 · Post by **member_27808** » 05 Jan 2014 07:43

What a fantastic pic of the 'mini' fleet. When do we get to see the 10+ fleet pic.

Also a fascinating journey especially, as I understand it, she did not make a single port call (for obvious reasons) for the 15,000+ km journey. The fleet tanker must have nipped in to a port somewhere to get oil and provisions - Lisbon maybe as around halfway?.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 05 Jan 2014 08:15

^^^^^

(they did stop at Lisbon.)

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 05 Jan 2014 09:22

chackojoseph wrote:2 harriers seen on Viraat. Will they land it on Vikramaditya?

Now that's a serious insult to SHAR pilots

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 05 Jan 2014 09:37

Kapil wrote:I have embarked and sailed on the viraat,Mumbai and Teg. I am trying to imagine how Vikramaditya must appear along side.

cheers everyone
K

Only you can get us the photo Kaps man !

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 05 Jan 2014 10:05

Question about aircraft carrier length measurements: is the typical reported length the deck length or the waterline length ?

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 05 Jan 2014 10:10

NRao wrote:^^^^^

(they did stop at Lisbon.)

Only Deepak stopped, Viram and Teg danced a tango for a couple of days when Deepak hadits fill-up, then INS Delhi joined them, since then apart from a slow transit thru the Suez, it has been a brisk pace and no port-calls.. It was rumored that there might be a port call in Alexandria... To the bets of my knowledge, none of the Four ships were listed as making a stop there... Not even in Port Said in the mouth of the Suez.

aditya_d · Post by **aditya_d** » 05 Jan 2014 11:30

-deleted- next post has better edits of the photos

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 05 Jan 2014 11:36

Ladies and Gentlemen, the pictures you've been waiting for.

More here:

EDIT: aditya_d, you beat me to it

Srivastav · Post by **Srivastav** » 05 Jan 2014 11:45

^^^^^^ wow, this is one of the most awe inspiring sights ^^^^^^

member_28305 · Post by **member_28305** » 05 Jan 2014 11:46

Goose Bumps....

These pics made my day...

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 05 Jan 2014 12:38

Wow, i am speechless

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 05 Jan 2014 12:52

NDTV has a small clip of the Armada.. See here @
http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/ins-v ... ves-467126
Thanks to Nitin Gokhale for the Pics and the reporting.. Kudos to the IN publicity wing for the pictures...