India-US Strategic News and Discussion

sivab · Post by **sivab** » 10 Jan 2014 00:51

http://www.rediff.com/news/report/india ... 140109.htm

Indians and Americans are working behind the scenes to arrive at a solution where Khobragade’s legal troubles remain “only on paper” and she is able to fly back to India. India has refused to go for a guilty-plea that directly or indirectly accepts any of the allegations against her, while the Americans want to see that their legal position is not undermined. A solution is being worked out that is a halfway point between the two positions so that both sides can declare victory.

Sources in the ministry of external affairs claim that Khobragade’s possible return to India will help focus on serious bilateral issues. However, while the final solution will help the broader diplomatic goals on both sides, Devyani’s personal issues will not entirely get resolved.

Her husband Akash Singh Rathore is an American-born wine expert and the couple have two children. After marriage, according to MEA rules, a diplomat’s spouse is supposed to take up Indian citizenship. However, till the maid servant troubles started Devyani had not initiated the procedure.

If the final resolution of the Khobragade episode results in the implicit condition that Devyani’s re-entry into America becomes impossible without her facing US laws, then it will impact her personal and social life, said the source in MEA

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Jan 2014 01:17

Zee News:
Indian Delegation in US for 2 Day Space Conference

Looks like cancellations are only from US side.

Washington: Amid strain in ties between the two countries over diplomat's arrest, a team of leading ISRO scientists are here to take part in the first ever ministerial meet on international space exploration sponsored by the US.

A S Kiran Kumar, Associate Director of the Space Applications Centre (SAC), who is leading the Indian team, is in Washington for the two-day 2014 Space Exploration Conference and Heads of Space Agency Summit.

The meeting will also be attended by heads of 30 top space agencies including those from China, Germany, the US and Russia.

However, the Indian delegation has not been represented at the ministerial level although the team is part of the US sponsored conference. Neither, the Indian team has been headed by Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) Head Dr K Radhakrishnan.

As of now, no official explanation has been given for a relatively low level representation at the conference. But it is being speculated that the ongoing strain in India-US bilateral ties over the arrest of senior Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade in the New York might be the cause behind it.

“We're welcoming an Indian delegation to the State Department tomorrow as part of the first ever international space exploration forum we announced earlier today”, said State Department Spokesperson Jen Psaki.

The State Department termed the Indian participation in the space conference as business as usual.

Jen Psaki said that India and the US have great partnership in the field of space exploration.

ISRO's Mars orbiter Mission, which is India's first interplanetary mission, is currently cruising to the Red Planet following its successful launch in November, 2013. If successful, ISRO would become the fourth space agency in the world to enter Mars after the Soviet Space Progam, NASA and European Space Agency.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Jan 2014 01:17

Nandu, thanks.

munna · Post by **munna** » 10 Jan 2014 01:19

Kati wrote:Where is our Ram Narayan of India-US Friendship Forum?
He has been off the screen completely for the last two years; that means
the so called much vaunted "strategic dialogue" was abandoned two years ago?

He is active but only with respect what India needs to do with China. The strategic dialogue and more seems to have been abandoned right when UPA-II's troubles began, strange no.

Nandu · Post by **Nandu** » 10 Jan 2014 02:02

Breaking news on twitter is it's actually been settled on the lines of rediff article above.

PB indicted her, but told judge DK has been accorded diplomatic immunity and has left the country.

I hope GoI doesn't slack off too much on reciprocity.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 10 Jan 2014 02:04

ramana wrote:Zee News:
Indian Delegation in US for 2 Day Space Conference

Looks like cancellations are only from US side.

Was reading somewhere else that the ISRO chief Radhakrishnan didn't go even though he was supposed to be part of the conference.

saip · Post by **saip** » 10 Jan 2014 02:06

AFAIK if there is no resolution by Monday there will be only a preliminary hearing on Monday and if no plea bargain, judge MAY decide to go for trial by jury. Even then the negotiations can continue. So why is this date (Jan 13) that important?

James B · Post by **James B** » 10 Jan 2014 02:08

BREAKING NEWS:

Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade leaves US for home

saip · Post by **saip** » 10 Jan 2014 02:09

Nandu wrote:Breaking news on twitter is it's actually been settled on the lines of rediff article above.

PB indicted her, but told judge DK has been accorded diplomatic immunity and has left the country.

I hope GoI doesn't slack off too much on reciprocity.

She was already indicted. So did PB drop the charges or keep them in abeyance?

James B · Post by **James B** » 10 Jan 2014 02:13

saip wrote:
Nandu wrote:Breaking news on twitter is it's actually been settled on the lines of rediff article above.

PB indicted her, but told judge DK has been accorded diplomatic immunity and has left the country.

I hope GoI doesn't slack off too much on reciprocity.
She was already indicted. So did PB drop the charges or keep them in abeyance?

Charges will stay.

From AP

The letter says the charges will remain pending until she can be brought to court to face them, either through a waiver of immunity or her return to the U.S. without immunity status.

saip · Post by **saip** » 10 Jan 2014 02:14

OK. Just saw. The charges in abeyance and will resume at a later date. Limitation?

Link

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Jan 2014 02:14

Something to mull over or ruminate:

Robert Gates in his memoirs makes one point which may have bearing here.

http://spectator.org/blog/57371/robert- ... no-punches

With Obama, however, I joined a new, inexperienced president determined to change course—and equally determined from day one to win re-election. Domestic political considerations would therefore be a factor, though I believe never a decisive one, in virtually every major national security problem we tackled.

It might be indicative of other areas as well. Most likely to attract the Ind American domestic support he appointed quite inexperienced tyros to govt positions of oversight and they were ill served.

Its too coincidental that the chain of Ind American officials involved in this disaster : Biswal, Zeya, Bharara and who else yet to emerge. And all are part of inner circle.

Full text of essay in WSJ by Robert Gates:

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1 ... 1526222552

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Jan 2014 02:15

OK now that DK is back in India MEA has to be open and transparent with Indians on what they are doing to ensure reciprocity.

chandrasekhar.m · Post by **chandrasekhar.m** » 10 Jan 2014 02:15

Nandu wrote:Breaking news on twitter is it's actually been settled on the lines of rediff article above.

PB indicted her, but told judge DK has been accorded diplomatic immunity and has left the country.

I hope GoI doesn't slack off too much on reciprocity.

How is this advantageous to India or DK in any way? Right now, it looks like a clear win for the US inspite of its wrong-doing.

Couldn't DK have left at any time using a passport issued by the consulate and the consequences would be the same as now?
And is the new "diplomatic immunity" she got because she was transferred to India's mission to the UN?
If she does have this immunity, why is she forced to leave?

Preet Bharara and everyone involved (including the US Embassy personnel) in the chain of "trafficking" SR out of the country should be tried in Indian courts and brought to justice or afraid of entering India or countries friendly to India.

MEA should do a review of their practices and ensure no diplomat is ever left in such a vulnerable state in the future. It should work with other countries and bring pressure upon the US to get rid of this A3 visa program entirely which is in breach of the Vienna Convention.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 10 Jan 2014 02:16

saip wrote:OK. Just saw. The charges in abeyance and will resume at a later date. Limitation?

Cannot visit like a normal person .. the charges will kick in. However can enter US with full immunity as a diplomat.

BijuShet · Post by **BijuShet** » 10 Jan 2014 02:17

ramana wrote:OK now that DK is back in India MEA has to be open and transparent with Indians on what they are doing to ensure reciprocity.

Given the terms of her bail will she be considered an absconder i.e. can additional charges be added to the original one in the future?

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 10 Jan 2014 02:19

BijuShet wrote:
ramana wrote:OK now that DK is back in India MEA has to be open and transparent with Indians on what they are doing to ensure reciprocity.
Given the terms of her bail will she be considered an absconder i.e. can additional charges be added to the original one in the future?

No she is not an absconder.

saip · Post by **saip** » 10 Jan 2014 02:20

pankajs wrote:
saip wrote:OK. Just saw. The charges in abeyance and will resume at a later date. Limitation?
Cannot visit like a normal person .. the charges will kick in. However can enter US with full immunity as a diplomat.

I understand that. But in this case there is limitation (AFAIK five years) And if DK does not return for five yrs what happens?

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 10 Jan 2014 02:21

chandrasekhar.m wrote:How is this advantageous to India or DK in any way? Right now, it looks like a clear win for the US inspite of its wrong-doing.

Yes it not the full rollback of charges as demanded by India.

chandrasekhar.m wrote:Couldn't DK have left at any time using a passport issued by the consulate and the consequences would be the same as now?

Then she would have been an absconder.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Jan 2014 02:22

HT says:
http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-new ... 71228.aspx

ndian diplomat Devyani Khobragade left the US for home Thursday morning armed under the protection of full diplomatic immunity granted to her earlier in the day.

A file photo India's Deputy Consul General in New York, Devyani Khobragade, during an event at India's consulate general in New York. (Reuters)But Manhattan US attorney Preet Bharara’s office filed an indictment charging her with visa fraud and making false statement, which will stand till she returns.

This should bring to an end a crisis in relations between India and the US starting December 12, when Khobragade was arrested in New York, and strip-searched.

So SD gave her diplomatic immunity in morning and Bharara being full of it continued the indictment which stays for ever.

So now that DK is safe its important to get the next steps.

How were the Richards family spirited out of India with pending criminal cases?

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 10 Jan 2014 02:23

saip wrote:
pankajs wrote:Cannot visit like a normal person .. the charges will kick in. However can enter US with full immunity as a diplomat.
I understand that. But in this case there is limitation (AFAIK five years) And if DK does not return for five yrs what happens?

No idea!

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 10 Jan 2014 02:23

Whats the statute of limitations on these types of charges in massa? Or is there none? Given MEA's rules DK's hubby needs to take Indian citizenship anyways - she should have known that when she hitched up with him since she was in IFS already but chose to ignore the rule till brown matter hit the fan.

Hitesh · Post by **Hitesh** » 10 Jan 2014 02:25

Although I am not happy with the way US has treated DK and spirited an Indian national in violation of Indian laws, for the sake of geopolitiks and realpolitiks, India needs to move ahead but stick with the reciprocity principle. All measures that India undertook should be adhered to. No more special privileges for Americans. But I would redress America's concerns about the security barricades and undertake a study that shows that America's concerns about the barricades are unfounded and that better measures have been taken to address America's concerns and local traffic considerations equally.

The SOL will be suspended because DK undertook moves that would prevent or delay proceedings. SOL will only start to toll when DK returns back to America and the feds were on notice that she returned back to US jurisdiction.

DK would lose the bail. Consider this as "blood money." GoI can get it back by levying fines and penalties against American diplomats for tax evasion.

saip · Post by **saip** » 10 Jan 2014 02:26

She could have left as her presence was waived at preliminary hearing. Only her presence would have been mandatory at the jury trial when it started and if she did not appear at that time she would have been declared a fugitive. Now it is not going to happen as long as her immunity continues and in such cases bond would have been discharged.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 10 Jan 2014 02:26

ramana wrote:How were the Richards family spirited out of India with pending criminal cases?

I think that will be the next step. Make a case for contempt of court on some US embassy personal or PB, force one US embassy official to leave India and let the case hang just like the US case. After having made that point I think India will leave it at that.

member_22872 · Post by **member_22872** » 10 Jan 2014 02:28

BREAKING: Grand jury in NY indicts Indian diplomat accused of lying about how much she paid housekeeper.

chandrasekhar.m · Post by **chandrasekhar.m** » 10 Jan 2014 02:31

ramana wrote:HT says:
http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-new ... 71228.aspx

ndian diplomat Devyani Khobragade left the US for home Thursday morning armed under the protection of full diplomatic immunity granted to her earlier in the day.

A file photo India's Deputy Consul General in New York, Devyani Khobragade, during an event at India's consulate general in New York. (Reuters)But Manhattan US attorney Preet Bharara’s office filed an indictment charging her with visa fraud and making false statement, which will stand till she returns.

This should bring to an end a crisis in relations between India and the US starting December 12, when Khobragade was arrested in New York, and strip-searched.

So SD gave her diplomatic immunity in morning and Bharara being full of it continued the indictment which stays for ever.

So now that DK is safe its important to get the next steps.

How were the Richards family spirited out of India with pending criminal cases?

ramana saar,
In the very beginning itself, you had speculated that they couldn't have left India without someone very high up in the chain allowing it. My feeling is this will never be found out even if an investigation is launched in India. Such guarantees would have been extracted in allowing DK to leave for India.

And Bharara does sound full of himself, or in other words "he is doing his duty as a US Attorney". He didn't come out as a patsy in the end from the looks of it.

saip · Post by **saip** » 10 Jan 2014 02:32

Raja Bose wrote:Whats the statute of limitations on these types of charges in massa? Or is there none? Given MEA's rules DK's hubby needs to take Indian citizenship anyways - she should have known that when she hitched up with him since she was in IFS already but chose to ignore the rule till brown matter hit the fan.

As far as I can tell it is five years. In some cases like murder there is no limitation and in other cases it varies like 15, 10 years. And if not specified it is 5 years.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Jan 2014 02:32

venug, thats not the full story. As G Sarkar told us many times grand juries are rigged and will turn in indictments.
Abhi kahani khatam nahin.

He is patsy. The worst ones are those who dont know they are a patsy.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 10 Jan 2014 02:33

Indian diplomat indicted in NY, leaves US

In a letter to the judge, prosecutors say she has been given diplomatic immunity status and left the United States on Thursday.

The letter says the charges will remain pending until she can be brought to court to face them, either through a waiver of immunity or her return to the U.S. without immunity status.

saip · Post by **saip** » 10 Jan 2014 02:35

Actually there are no cases pending against Richard or the daughters and so no contempt of court.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 10 Jan 2014 02:41

From rediff article:

Her husband Akash Singh Rathore is an American-born wine expert and the couple have two children. After marriage, according to MEA rules, a diplomat’s spouse is supposed to take up Indian citizenship. However, till the maid servant troubles started Devyani had not initiated the procedure.

So for Dr. DK the choice is to resign and come to US (and take up US greencard on the way to Naturalization) or get Prof. Rathore to become Indian citizen. The former avenue got closed now unless she wants to face the grand jury.

saip · Post by **saip** » 10 Jan 2014 02:42

ramana wrote:venug, thats not the full story. As G Sarkar told us many times grand juries are rigged and will turn in indictments.
Abhi kahani khatam nahin.

He is patsy. The worst ones are those who dont know they are a patsy.

Having been on two grand juries I can say they are not rigged as the selection is random. Some sixty or so are called and they randomly select the actual jurors. I got paid all of $100 for two weeks! But the problem is most of the jurors have no understanding of the law and will see and hear only what is presented by the prosecutor. We just see what prosecutor wants to present and nothing else. No cross examination and no rebuttal of witnesses. In such a situation unless the prosecutor himself does not want us return indictment he will get one..

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Jan 2014 02:47

Picking un-informed people is also a way of rigging.

I am not doubting or casting aspersions on your experience. I too had been to a jury and was rejected once they knew I was an engineer. Thats one way of rigging.

Reuters

http://in.reuters.com/article/2014/01/0 ... GW20140109

(Reuters) - A U.S. grand jury returned an indictment on Thursday against Devyani Khobragade, the Indian diplomat whose case has inflamed relations between the two countries since her arrest last month.

The indictment came a day after Khobragade's lawyers lost a bid to delay the January 13 deadline for a preliminary hearing to be held or an indictment to be filed in the case.

But prosecutors in a letter on Thursday told a federal judge there was no need to arraign Khobragade on the charges of visa fraud and making false statements, as she was "very recently accorded diplomatic immunity status and that she departed the United States today."

A lawyer for Khobragade did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

Looks like Bharara did not ask for arraignment as she had diplomatic immunity, but got a free indictment from non-rigged Grand(as opposed to ordinary) Jury.
More is coming out. Lets wait.

chandrasekhar.m · Post by **chandrasekhar.m** » 10 Jan 2014 02:50

matrimc wrote:From rediff article:

Her husband Akash Singh Rathore is an American-born wine expert and the couple have two children. After marriage, according to MEA rules, a diplomat’s spouse is supposed to take up Indian citizenship. However, till the maid servant troubles started Devyani had not initiated the procedure.
So for Dr. DK the choice is to resign and come to US (and take up US greencard on the way to Naturalization) or get Prof. Rathore to become Indian citizen. The former avenue got closed now unless she wants to face the grand jury.

No more facing a "grand jury". It will goto trial if she returns to the US (without immunity?). "Grand juries" only indict which they have done. From the article below, grand juries are so called because they have more people than the normal jury.
Wikipedia link - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indictment

An indictment (/ɪnˈdaɪtmənt/ in-DYT-mənt), in the common law system, is a formal accusation that a person has committed a crime. In jurisdictions that maintain the concept of felonies, the most serious criminal offence is a felony; jurisdictions that lack the concept of felonies often use that of an indictable offence—an offence that requires an indictment.

Historically, in most common law jurisdictions, an indictment was handed up by a grand jury, which returned a "true bill" if it found cause to make the charge, or "no bill" if it did not find cause. Today, however, the grand jury has been abolished everywhere outside the United States.

In many, but not all, United States jurisdictions that use grand juries, prosecutors often have a choice between seeking an indictment from a grand jury and filing a charging document directly with the court. Such a document is usually called an information, accusation, or complaint, to distinguish it from a grand-jury indictment. To protect the suspect's due-process rights in felony cases (where the suspect's interest in liberty is at stake), there is usually a preliminary hearing, at which a judge determines whether there was probable cause to arrest the suspect who is in custody. If the judge finds such probable cause, he or she binds, or holds over, the suspect for trial.

Mr. Bharara could have done either of the above for an indictment. Are "grand juries" used because its easier to get an indictment that way? After all by heavy publicity they make sure the jury will usually be heavily biased against the accused in such cases.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 10 Jan 2014 02:50

Hope at least this harsh treatment at the hands of our so called friend and strategic partners will open the eyes of most MEA folks. After all if they are vigilant the non reciprocal privileges, the one sided agreements, verbal assurances rather than concrete action, broken promises, etc would not happen.

Hope they have long memories and keep this experience in mind while dealing with the Americans.

Hitesh · Post by **Hitesh** » 10 Jan 2014 02:54

It is time for India to indict a US official on a serious charge. Reciprocity must be followed.

Kati · Post by **Kati** » 10 Jan 2014 02:55

So the SD kept tight-lipped, but granted DK the required diplomatic visa (i.e., immunity/validated the UN accreditation) at the last moment once the burger and beer was denied at Nayi Dilli mission?

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 10 Jan 2014 02:58

Hitesh wrote:It is time for India to indict a US official on a serious charge. Reciprocity must be followed.

May be a case of two will be filed perhaps one diplomat force to leave India same as DK but do not expect full reciprocity.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Jan 2014 02:58

pankajs wrote:Hope at least this harsh treatment at the hands of our so called friend and strategic partners will open the eyes of most MEA folks. After all if they are vigilant the non reciprocal privileges, the one sided agreements, verbal assurances rather than concrete action, broken promises, etc would not happen.

If we do true root cause of the non-reciprocal treatment, we will find that Indian politicians and MEA secretaries in the past gave them for undue private favors recieved. It just doesnt make sense that so much was given while Indian diplomats were being criminalized and harassed regularly.

The UPA never objected when Indian opposition leaders(Fernandes, Kalam) were subjected to pat down searches. Then US started extending the 'priviliges' to officials (Meera Shanker) and most likely the Secy in charge then sniggered at a rival getting the abuse and kept quiet.

Indina media from Shekar Dupatta onwards were in Mir Jaffer mode.