India-US Strategic News and Discussion

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pankajs
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by pankajs »

Kati wrote:So the SD kept tight-lipped, but granted DK the required diplomatic visa (i.e., immunity/validated the UN accreditation) at the last moment once the burger and beer was denied at Nayi Dilli mission?
I think the tussle was between DOS and DOJ on who will step into the breach. DOJ did not oblige the SD and SD was forced to issue immunity at the last moment and prevent the bad blood continue further. That IMHO was the reason for delay.
Last edited by pankajs on 10 Jan 2014 03:04, edited 1 time in total.
ramana
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by ramana »

pankajs wrote:
Hitesh wrote:It is time for India to indict a US official on a serious charge. Reciprocity must be followed.
May be a case of two will be filed perhaps one diplomat force to leave India same as DK but do not expect full reciprocity.

I think the person(s) who conspired to get Richards family out all down the chain including the travel agency will pay the consequences.
Embassy will have to pay the taxes.

If any guts put away couple of known KDs in the spy world.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Vayutuvan »

SD was pulling the strings. Only after Dr. K got the immunity, they gave the go ahead to Mr. Bharara to pull the plug.
So who managed the whole project from start to finish in SD?
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by pankajs »

ramana wrote:If we do true root cause of the non-reciprocal treatment, we will find that Indian politicians and MEA secretaries in the past gave them for undue private favors recieved.
That has been our undoing and the Brits and via them the Americans understand that trait of our society very well and exploit it to the hilt. I very recently told a close relative that if our leaders where orphans we would solve lot of our problems. The beta/bhai/bhatija vad has extracted a heavy toll on our country.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by ramana »

Zeya?
arshyam
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by arshyam »

I just hope that the MEA doesn't call a truce and restore everything. This has been a good lesson to the MEA and IFS, and I hope they don't forget the incident.

Somehow I feel that we haven't really won anything here - our diplomat has been tarred, and no one on the other side has been. As part of the deal, we should charge-sheet someone from a consulate and expel them. There will be moans of protest, especially fellow desis who will say 'oh the issue's been resolved, why are we still persisting' (have read similar comments in our papers this past week), but we must make our point and end it on our terms. Nothing more, nothing less.

If wishes were horses...
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by pankajs »

U.S. government asks for Indian diplomat to leave country
(Reuters) - The United States has requested that Devyani Khobragade, an Indian diplomat indicted by a U.S. grand jury, leave the country, a U.S. government official said on Thursday.

The official said she had yet to leave the United States. The request for her to depart was part of an apparent arrangement to ease a diplomatic crisis between the two countries.

Washington accepted a request by India to accredit the diplomat at the United Nations and then asked New Delhi to waive the diplomatic immunity that status conferred. India denied the U.S. request, leading Washington to ask for her departure, the official said.
Ok if DK was asked to leave by the US we will most likely see the MEA ask an American diplomat to leave India. Standard process as far as such things go.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Raja Bose »

^^^Given the depths of spinelessness of our GoI, let us see if they follow standard procedure and expel 1 Khan diplomat.
pankajs
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by pankajs »

^^
Is it not sad that most of us and that includes myself doubt GOI. I can only shake my head in disgust for what we have become. That is why I wrote "most likely" instead of "most certainly". Anywhere else tit for tat expulsion would be par for the course.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by saip »

Ramana, there is a difference in selection of jurors and grand jurors. While a juror can be rejected without assigning any reason, a grand juror can only himself for a good cause ask for a waiver. Out of a pool of sixty 19 of us were picked and three were excused because they had good reasons (like a child at home) and then were replaced. All Federal criminal cases do go to grand jury and states have their own laws and prosecutors have option to present or not.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by saip »

So she was declared PNG. Spiteful SD. They did not accept India's argument that she already had immunity from July.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by ramana »

OK, Grand Juror, your mightyness.
saip
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by saip »

We can expect to see a US diplomat in India declared PNG and this normally happens within 24 hours. Probably the guy who bought Richard's ticket.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by ramana »

Also the way the news gets reported in India is a way to identify the MUTUS.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by putnanja »

If she was indeed declared PNG, expect the person who purchased tax-free tickets for SR's family to also be declared PNG and expelled.

If India had any balls, it should actually ask the US ambassador to go back, citing no confidence in her ability to promote India-US ties. That old ***** was reposnsible for this issue too, and the fact that she approved the evacuation of SR's family should be sufficient to send her back. If US doesn't withdraw her, just deny her all meetings with anyone in GoI so that she becomes useless.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by saip »

chandrasekhar.m wrote: Mr. Bharara could have done either of the above for an indictment. Are "grand juries" used because its easier to get an indictment that way? After all by heavy publicity they make sure the jury will usually be heavily biased against the accused in such cases.
I dont think PB had the option as it is mandatory for federal criminal cases. But the proceedings are secret and can not be published until the case is over. So no publicity for GJ proceedings and they can not be on the jury hearing the case either.
saip
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by saip »

putnanja wrote:If she was indeed declared PNG, expect the person who purchased tax-free tickets for SR's family to also be declared PNG and expelled.

If India had any balls, it should actually ask the US ambassador to go back, citing no confidence in her ability to promote India-US ties. That old ***** was reposnsible for this issue too, and the fact that she approved the evacuation of SR's family should be sufficient to send her back. If US doesn't withdraw her, just deny her all meetings with anyone in GoI so that she becomes useless.
True. Technically low level staff could not have spirited them away without her OK. But declaring her PNG would take the matters to a much higher level and will automatically result in the Indian ambassador being declared PNG.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by pankajs »

Someone of DK's level will be asked to leave if at all.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by rahulm »

It's good that DK is back. The terms are "we think you are guilty, but we have decided to let you get away with it because of your immunity. However, you enter the US without immunity we will getcha. Now scoot".

With regret, I say, I don' t have much faith in the single mindedness and persistence by the GOI. I wouldn't be surprised if all the non reciprocal privileges were reinstated, infact this may be part of the deal Shri Khursheed has agreed.

I hope we pursue the Richards trafficking issue with vigour through to the end. I suspect this will not happen which will setup us up as wimps and targets in the future (what's new?).

I have personally seen 77 CD plated vehicles in Delhi violating traffic rules and the look of absolute contempt on the look of the occupants as they survey the "natives" who are inconvenienced including the desi driver who know thinks he has become a "gora".

If we declare somebody PNG it should be on a fully reciprocal basis - i.e. criminal charges against and liable to be arrested if s/he returns to to India without immunity. The Richards trafficking probably offers the best avenue along with excise and tax violations. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

DK is in breach by her spouse having foreign nationality. Is there a time period within which this is supposed to happen? She has been married for a few years now.

A question: Did India put out an Interpol notice for Headley?
Last edited by rahulm on 10 Jan 2014 04:04, edited 1 time in total.
saip
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by saip »

But the Desi driver can always be arrested/fined for traffic violations. If the gora intervenes he can be hauled into the Police station until his immunity is verified.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by chandrasekhar.m »

Raja Bose wrote:^^^Given the depths of spinelessness of our GoI, let us see if they follow standard procedure and expel 1 Khan diplomat.
From Wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognizable_offence
As defined by the first schedule of the code of criminal procedure in the criminal justice system of India and Pakistan, a cognizable offence is a criminal offence in which the police is empowered to register an FIR, investigate, and arrest an accused without a court issued warrant.
According to the law in India cognizable cases are those that involve criminal offences. Some examples of these are Murder, Robbery, Theft, Rioting, Counterfeiting etc.
In this special case, standard procedure to declare PNG would be:
- arrest an amrikhan diplomat for a cognisable offence (those who bought ticket for SR's family can be arrested for Theft of taxes, since DK was arrested for criminal case of visa fraud when it was more of a civil dispute of not paying high wages)
- make them spend atleast one night in jail cell with a specially selected crowd of criminals ( a couple of teeth should be spontaneously knocked out by this crowd with nobody sharing the blame), SOP onlee as was done to DK
- demand a bail of let's say $1 million atleast, even better if arrested for non-bailable offence
- framing charges will be done as per Indian standard time, with usual respectful glib talk of "law is the law, it is equal for all etc"
- award them a prison sentence and expel them

Rinse and repeat the above.

Of course, all amrikhan citizens in India should also be given the same treatment as Indians in all government procedures, instead of cutting any slack. Some members already reported that they have seen them being treated like everyone else in airports now.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by ramana »

India has been ill served by the NSAs including Brajesh Mishra when it comes ot handling espionage cases
A question: Did India put out an Interpol notice for Headley?

By having all the intel agencies report to NSA we are settng up a new level of failure where only one person needs to be gullible.

If it werent for the DK arrest and ill treatment we would not have known how much non-reciprocal GUBO the MEA had done to the US all the while pretending to take care of Indian interests.

Not content with giving all those privileges to US Embassy they even gave them lal batti status cars. Duty free booze to entertain and suborn Indians.
And while US was restricting VIenna protocols to consular officials they made no noise.
T-1 visas were being issued to Indians, documented in USSD websites and the MEA saw no problems.
US Embassy folks are roaming all over India meeting local politicans in Bihar claiming their old native place to get a sense of the politics while Indian embassy folks are not doing much in the US. All they do is harass PIOs for visas.



They defacto gave up Indian independence!
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by rahulm »

Police normally don't ever touch CD plated vehicles and think twice about messing with military vehicles. Aam Aadmi is fair game. :-D
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by chandrasekhar.m »

saip wrote:But the Desi driver can always be arrested/fined for traffic violations. If the gora intervenes he can be hauled into the Police station until his immunity is verified.
Desi driver can state he was driving so under duress as gora had threatened him and police can arrest gora.

Actually such creativity is not needed, GOI will already have dossiers on wrong-doings by amrikhan diplomats and consular staff since ages. Just need to give a free hand to the babus, police and judges and claim the matter is now in the hands of the Indian courts and MEA cannot get involved.

Even if diplomats won't be inconvenienced by GOI, I am sure the Amrikhan citizens who used to feel special in India will have to come down to earth now because low level government officers and public wont forget this and can act with discretion.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by chandrasekhar.m »

rahulm wrote:Police normally don't ever touch CD plated vehicles.
Not anymore, police have been specifically instructed to not let them go. There was a news report about this.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by pankajs »

chandrasekhar.m wrote:Actually such creativity is not needed, GOI will already have dossiers on wrong-doings by amrikhan diplomats and consular staff since ages. Just need to give a free hand to the babus, police and judges and claim the matter is now in the hands of the Indian courts and MEA cannot get involved.
Even that is not needed just do a random select from non-cognizable section. After all your just want him to enjoy GOI hospitality for a short time and then kick him out with charges pending and mouth a non-regret related to the circumstance surrounding the arrest.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by saip »

The magic phrase in this case appears to be 'cavity search' used by DK and that opened the flood gates of rage. If she did not send that email may be everyone would have said another diplomat, another case, yawn! Even the phrase strip search would not have resulted in that rage, methinks. PB added to the fire by claiming 'all courtesies were extended to her' and the US marshals' lies about not doing the CS did little to assuage the anger. But for this we would not have known how many privileges were given to US diplomats. I wonder what other embassies are accorded such privileges GOI. Hope PM Modi will closely examine these. :D
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by SaiK »

So, DK will ask for kids to quit as well? I am not sure about her husband... this is as good as virtual divorce conditions for her... and the shame of being molested openly along with criminals.

Given whatsoever crime, there is no disqualification as regards the crime itself (okay, we have definitions varies from country to country, on the levels of crimes). But, don't we need to prove that a crime is a crime as well? Will the American criminals escape now?

OTOH, DK must tell the real truth about her maid payments to Indian public after she reaches home. There would be certain shame angle however. I don't know if we have to protect her if she is wrong within Indian jurisdictions.

Her kids can go to school in pune or mumbai or wherever she wants them to, but the horror factor remains for her family as a harry potter like trademark on their faces for a long time to come.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by SaiK »

saip wrote:Hope PM Modi will closely examine these. :D
:rotfl: He will reciprocate with counter CS 3D CS setup. After all US diplomats knows what it means in their mother land!

ps: you politically jumped the gun here, and went OT
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Nandu »

SaiK wrote:So, DK will ask for kids to quit as well? I am not sure about her husband... this is as good as virtual divorce conditions for her.
Yes, but on the other hand, I think it was a mistake on her part, while on diplomatic posting, to marry an US citizen with the intention of staying in the US.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by sunilUpa »

This end game is scripted by politicians and not by babus/bureaucrats..full reciprocity is highly unlikely. Media fall out will determine next steps. Expect desi media to declare victory.....
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by saip »

Nandu wrote:
SaiK wrote:So, DK will ask for kids to quit as well? I am not sure about her husband... this is as good as virtual divorce conditions for her.
Yes, but on the other hand, I think it was a mistake on her part, while on diplomatic posting, to marry an US citizen with the intention of staying in the US.
She met him in Germany and her daughters are aged 7 & 4 and so probably married him 10 years ago
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Vayutuvan »

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Last edited by Vayutuvan on 10 Jan 2014 07:43, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by ManjaM »

http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/left-r ... o-featured

Relevant portion is till 24:45
1. Ajai Shuklas defense of the indefensible, at the cost of an Indian diplomatic officer,
2. His absurd defense of the Raymond Davis affair.
3. Casting aspersions on the intentions and professionalism of Government officers engaged in service of India is quite shocking and brings to questions his own motivations and intentions. A steep fall for an officer of the armed forces.
4. His strange bringing to question the competence of Indian terror groups. What is he thinking??
Ajai Shukla is clearly not batting for Indian interests in this episode, who is he batting for.
All other points raised by Sri Parthasarathy have pretty much been discussed and analysed here already.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by sunilUpa »

matrimc wrote:
Nandu wrote:Yes, but on the other hand, I think it was a mistake on her part, while on diplomatic posting, to marry an US citizen with the intention of staying in the US.
People who fall in love do so accidentally - not after looking at detailed bio-data and kundali matching - just like the age old swayamvara.
+1...Have heard that she is a genuine, caring and good human.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by ParasuramanS »

The man at the current helm - Shiv Shankar Menon - is the most Incompetent and Cluless NSA to ever helm that post. That says a lot. He will be remembered for the "Sharm el-Sheikh" fiasco, and now the Devyani fiasco. Men (and women) who are driven by ambition and arrogance have very little substance. They are like "jelly" - weak-kneed, and ready to fall at the first blow.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Vayutuvan »

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Last edited by Vayutuvan on 10 Jan 2014 07:44, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by RCase »

Can the US declare a someone with the UN immunity as PNG? Wouldn't it be the UN that will need to ask her to leave?

If DK's immunity is from UN, then why would the US ask her to leave in 72 hours?
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by member_28352 »

The "fun" in the Indian judicial system is that for non-bailable offences, bail is at the discretion of court. So courts may even refuse to grant bail. For cases like fraud and cheating courts usually grant bail after three four months only. I am sure this factor must have weighed in the minds of the amirkhans during this entire episode.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by ramana »

All please stick to India-US related news and discussions.

Thanks,

ramana
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