India-US Strategic News and Discussion

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 10 Jan 2014 23:26

US Withdraws Diplomat After India Expulsion Demand

A U.S. diplomat will leave India after the government there demanded expulsion in retaliation for the arrest and strip search of an Indian diplomat in New York.

The State Department says the U.S. deeply regrets that the Indian government felt it was necessary to expel an American diplomat. Spokeswoman Jen Psaki (SAH'-kee) says she hopes the case will come to closure and that India will take "significant steps" to improve ties that have been badly strained by the case.

Just hot air to cover for tit 4 tat or back to demanding one sided privileges?

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 10 Jan 2014 23:29

chaanakya wrote:Khobragade was in charge of sensitive desks so espionage angle of SR and her family could not be ruled out. She is no ordinary Maid for whom US would go to such an extraordinary length to put relationship at stake.

I think there is something to that.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 10 Jan 2014 23:33

see how its all india being unreasonable now... how very predictable

Mahesh_R · Post by **Mahesh_R** » 10 Jan 2014 23:38

Lalmohan wrote:see how its all india being unreasonable now... how very predictable

Sirji from day1 it was that way...not sure if I missed it.....

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 10 Jan 2014 23:41

Has anyone read the indictment against DK?
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1 ... 3600801454

It seems quite at odds with the facts presented in the MEA statement
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/mea-statemen ... 550-3.html

Per the indictment, SR wanted to return home, and DK would not allow it.
Per MEA, MEA wanted SR to return home, but SR would not.

SR wanted to return home on her personal passport, allegedly which DK took from her. SR entered the US on an official passport.

In fact, if you read the indictment, if DK was guilty of all that was charged, she is guilty of human trafficking; but they are charging her only with visa fraud, as that is the only thing I think they can really make a case about.

Seems to me, when the Department of State decided that they would expel DK, they also told DoJ, go and make up the most vile indictment that you can - it is not going to trial anyway, none of your witnesses will ever be charged with perjury. So the indictment is full of bad stuff DK allegedly did, but only charges her with visa fraud.

Now, I am tired, and a bit furious, so may not be reading carefully enough.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 10 Jan 2014 23:42

this is hillarious
in the abc quote above it says "india will take significant steps..."
on the bbc website, quoting the same official it says "india will take significant steps with us..."

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 10 Jan 2014 23:45

Guess first world Americans have enough opportunities to make utopia out of USA quickly since USA is already most powerful most civilized most modern country. A tiny first step would be some transparency by declaring name of diplomat in Delhi requested out by India.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 10 Jan 2014 23:46

Ramana,

Yup just got into Madurai.

Well until GOI decides to notify such divisions, I'll give it a pass.

I don't understand why folks are so heart broken over USA actions. We are still SDRE. Even when we have a per capita of $40,000 we still SDRE. In USA Indian types make more than the average folks and we still SDRE. What the hell did people expect. I'm perplexed.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 10 Jan 2014 23:55

I think the word "hope" applies to both, ie she hopes that case comes to closure and hopes India will take significant steps...

says she hopes the case will come to closure and that India will take "significant steps" to improve ties that have been badly strained by the case

saip · Post by **saip** » 11 Jan 2014 00:07

And they are not promising US will take significant steps.

saip · Post by **saip** » 11 Jan 2014 00:23

Dipanker wrote:
ShankarCag wrote:^^^^^DK is not a DOO. She doesn't earn her bread slaving for a US firm. She works for the GOI and is a privileged person, her being a diplomat, as all diplomats are worldwide. If she chooses to keep a maid that's her and the Indian govt's business. Last I checked having a maid wasn't a crime in India. Remember only Indian laws are applicable to this case. Both DK and SR were on Indian passports and disputes if any were under the jurisdiction of Indian courts. For patently oblique reasons (spying?) US SD and Khalistani attack dogm PB waded into this matter and are patently in contempt of Indian courts and Indian law which is the only law that is applicable to this case. That DOO washes his own underwear is a non-sequitor in this matter. Why do you find this simple matter so difficult to wrap around your head?

Actually you will be surprised to know that keeping a maid in not a crime in US either!

But furnishing false information on official document is a crime pretty much in all countries around the world and US in no exception.

I must have missed something. Where did DK furnish 'false information on official document'?

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 11 Jan 2014 00:34

saip wrote:And they are not promising US will take significant steps.

The all powerful and self-righteous US needs to take steps?? Who would have thought! That's only for us SDRE countries

Anindya · Post by **Anindya** » 11 Jan 2014 00:38

NBC news gets a Pakistani to writeup about the DK episode, all with the help of notorious fraudster Nilim Dutta...

Can departure of strip-search diplomat save US-India relations?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Jan 2014 00:42

Anindya wrote:NBC news gets a Pakistani to writeup about the DK episode, all with the help of notorious fraudster Nilim Dutta...

Can departure of strip-search diplomat save US-India relations?

No. Because the real issues were not addressed. Its the US non-recognition of Vienna Protocols in the first place.

I think the US diplomat was not a diplomat hence the no naming practice by MEA.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 11 Jan 2014 00:47

saip wrote: I must have missed something. Where did DK furnish 'false information on official document'?

The whole Ramayan is over and you are asking me who is Sita?

My suggestion to you, read the indictment.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 11 Jan 2014 00:52

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-new ... 71378.aspx

Another US diplomat, who purchased the tickets for the Richards availing tax exemption, could be in trouble next.

“India has reason to believe that this officer was involved in processes relating to Khobragade case and subsequent unilateral action by the US,” official sources said.

HT has learnt that the diplomat given “little more than 48 hours” to leave India is Wayne May, a counsellor instrumental in granting visa and helping Richard’s husband and two children’s “evacuation” to the US.

So you know him now.

In a statement, Richard thanked rights groups and US officials for support. “I would like to tell other domestic workers who are suffering as I did -- you have rights and do not let anyone exploit you,” the statement read.

saip · Post by **saip** » 11 Jan 2014 00:55

Dipanker wrote:
saip wrote: I must have missed something. Where did DK furnish 'false information on official document'?
The whole Ramayan is over and you are asking me who is Sita?

My suggestion to you, read the indictment.

Why bring Ramayan here? So you think indictment is the God's word. If all indictments produce convictions then there will 100% convictions. 'Nuf said.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 11 Jan 2014 00:56

Dipanker wrote:
saip wrote: I must have missed something. Where did DK furnish 'false information on official document'?
The whole Ramayan is over and you are asking me who is Sita?

My suggestion to you, read the indictment.

The indictment is a statement of fact?

Just to exemplify the supposedly egalitarian society in the us and how nobody can flout the laws - http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ ... story.html

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 11 Jan 2014 01:03

saip wrote:

Why bring Ramayan here? So you think indictment is the God's word. If all indictments produce convictions then there will 100% convictions. 'Nuf said.

Apparently, for MUTUs and CRINGEs , it is.

CRINGE: Confused Resident INdians Guboing Everytime.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Jan 2014 01:08

Oh BTW not all maids have absconded or took egregious route as Sangeeta Richards. Only a few of the vast number of maids, guards who accompanied the Indian diplomats took this route.

There is something we dont know about Sangeeta Richards that made the US take this extremely hostile stance. They could have just expelled DK in September yet they strung her along and sprung the trap after exfiltration like the Iranian hostage crisis out of India. Bogus visas etc. All this points to some pthter plans not yet revealed.

BTW Dale Carneige's first chapter in his book "How to win friends and influence people" is "If you want to gather honey don't knock over the beehive!"
Looks like SD has already extracted all they want and kicked the beehive.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 11 Jan 2014 01:13

Sanjay wrote:Ramana, it is worrying that even on BRF there is seemingly an acceptance of every word on the indictment by some people.

DK allegedly did certain things. The US media and the quislings (I prefer that word as his fate matches what I think should happen to them) accepted DK's guilt as a given.

That is unacceptable.

All over twitter, Indian Right Wingers are abusing DK. They think with local brains. For them IFS doesn't represent India but is the pampered establishment which deserved this spanking from US. Those standing up for DK is really a minority.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Jan 2014 01:16

Thats OK RajeshA.
Kipling's poem 'If' should guide us in times of crisis.

IF you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:...

Read on at
http://www.kipling.org.uk/poems_if.htm

till the end!!!
Philip will appreciate it.

RCase · Post by **RCase** » 11 Jan 2014 01:18

Lalmohan wrote:see how its all india being unreasonable now... how very predictable

Ha! Now we can see why TSP and Amir Khan are made for each other! Probably long lost brothers, Bollywood style.

It is always the other party that is being unreasonable and needs to act more as a responsible democractic aspiring regional power.

Khan, TSP, Islamics, Keedas are all deserving of each other.

To qoute APJK, 'Strength respects strength'.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 11 Jan 2014 01:22

habal wrote:And have acted in unison and coordinated at their end well, with the objective that a nation of 250 million people should insult and humiliate a billion through some slick moves.

I guess you are talking about US. So other 60 million (the entire CA and a large part of TX) are Mexican?

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 11 Jan 2014 01:24

saip wrote: Why bring Ramayan here? So you think indictment is the God's word. If all indictments produce convictions then there will 100% convictions. 'Nuf said.

it is insufferable in all the opinion areas in massan news sites carrying this news.

mutu's are out in full force with

- i am ashamed (what to say of elsewhere when one mahapurush at BRF said that when somebody at work asked about this and he had no reply

)
- dk is horrible person and deserved this (we see that here with adarsh and embassy folks are horrible folks and dk father was a corrupt power abuse babu, until ramana had to put a stop to that)
- petty and childish by india (apparently needless cavity search is the pinnacle of mature civilized behavior)
- several variations of USA USA USA USA from the law and order / CSI watching crowd who is convinced of the superior US justice system. nevermind the issues faced by minorities, rich getting away with so called white collar crimes, police on power trip to police state levels etc..

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Jan 2014 01:26

From Telugu news site:

http://www.andhraheadlines.com/national ... 25605.html

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 11 Jan 2014 02:18

saip wrote:
Why bring Ramayan here? So you think indictment is the God's word. If all indictments produce convictions then there will 100% convictions. 'Nuf said.

If my reference to Ramayan has offended you then I apologize, but please do not imply/attribute to me things which I have not said. Do not try to read in between the lines.

Another thing if anybody on the forum labels me MUTU, he would be soooooooooooooo wrong because nothing could be farther from truth at least in my case!

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 11 Jan 2014 02:19

Maid had said that she wanted to return to India & she was denied by Indian diplomat; Indian diplomat herself complained to NY police that she was absconding; When Indian govt filed the case that maid was missing & not working in diplomat house why did n't USA govt facilitate maid wish to return to India? Then, there was deep conspiracy hatched out by maid using USA NGO & now maid got green card & i bet you that they will soon become US citizen;

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 11 Jan 2014 02:26

so, how do we plan ahead so that this dk-ny-type issues don't prop up? I guess that is a requirement to move towards better relationship not just USA but other power nations as well.

saip · Post by **saip** » 11 Jan 2014 02:31

SaiK wrote:so, how do we plan ahead so that this dk-ny-type issues don't prop up? I guess that is a requirement to move towards better relationship not just USA but other power nations as well.

A little vigorous vetting of applications for maid on A-3 by GOI. Remember you need a 'diplomatic note' to obtain an A-3 visa, which (the note i mean) obviously can be given only by the GOI.

Now the maid is claiming she had to work so much she did not have time to eat or sleep!

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 11 Jan 2014 02:35

By the way, IMHO, all these digging into the legalities of US actions and indictment this and arraignment that is irrelevant. Somebody (a top dog or a a coordinated group) wanted to send a message either to India or others (Chi-Paks?) that

One or more of
* India would not be playing in Afghanistan and would not be supported by the US
* BD elections
* Put CM Modi on a backfoot vis-a-vis US relations as soon as he becomes PM. Probably US's estimate is that he is the one who has the best chance given the lay of the land - their cats paw CM Kejriwal is a lightweight who has support base only among the IIT/IIM elite and they have given up on MP Rahul Gandhi after the 4 state election debacle

Dr. DK was at the wrong place at the wrong time. SD could have picked up somebody else with a little bit more difficulty but Dr. DK was ideal because SR's hubby and in-laws link to the Nai dilli's US embassy staff.

As an PIO and voting US citizen, I am most interested to know why and who in this administration has broken a relationship which had been built up painstakingly over the last couple of decades. Something like this is even more egregious considering the hatred the US faces all over the world from Benghazi to Islamabad, Istanbul to Djakarta the sole exception being the area bounded by Kashmir to Kanyakumari and Mumbai to Dibrughar.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 11 Jan 2014 02:36

SaiK wrote:so, how do we plan ahead so that this dk-ny-type issues don't prop up? I guess that is a requirement to move towards better relationship not just USA but other power nations as well.

Why not simply stop this maid business altogether?

member_22872 · Post by **member_22872** » 11 Jan 2014 02:51

Devyani no longer enjoys immunity, may face arrest warrant: US

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 11 Jan 2014 02:51

Dipanker wrote:
SaiK wrote:so, how do we plan ahead so that this dk-ny-type issues don't prop up? I guess that is a requirement to move towards better relationship not just USA but other power nations as well.

Why not simply stop this maid business altogether?

Dipanker ji,
When the White sahibs sitting in Massa embassies as in Delhi and rest of the turd world stop employing maids (like seen in other members of SR's extended family), may be indians too will lend an ear to your lecturing on employing of Maids ?

You should pronto begin speaking up for that end....
Ohh then it will mean lecturing the White Sahibs which could be construed to be uppity which is definitely not how one must not come across in yer neck of woods especially if one is of Indian origin .. I assume ?

member_22872 · Post by **member_22872** » 11 Jan 2014 02:55

Some American diplomats have done even worse, they have raped, murdered, sexually abused kids and yet dodged local law of those nations where they were posted.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 11 Jan 2014 02:56

no.. stopping maid service is not the isssue here, even in massa. it is about mis-representing the facts. this needs to stop basically from within indian jurisdiction as well.

labor law corrections helps.

now, there are criminals, criminal activities, bad people, etc.. and those are different cases altogether.

saip · Post by **saip** » 11 Jan 2014 02:58

venug wrote:Some American diplomats have done even worse, they have raped, murdered, sexually abused kids and yet dodged local law of those nations where they were posted.

But they are white log, aren't they?

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 11 Jan 2014 02:59

Sanjay wrote:DK allegedly did certain things. The US media and the quislings (I prefer that word as his fate matches what I think should happen to them) accepted DK's guilt as a given.
That is unacceptable.

Not that I support the way this has been handled by the US DoS and DoJ at all levels but it would be remiss on our part not to mention the purported letter of SR. Everybody accepted at face value the claim by Mr. Khobragade that it has been written by SR. Who knows what the provenance of that letter was? So India (may be limited to a handful of individuals - but that distinction would be lost on the US public) has made some blunders too. Another blunder is the statement by former Ambassador Lalit Mansingh that personal integrity takes precedence over matter of strategic importance where as this whole affair is not about Dr. DK and her maid SR. It is about two groups in the US admin - one against India's interests and the other neutral (for Inda's interests is going too far) towards India. It behooves Indian strategists to start collating all the intel on this issue to separate the good and bad guys. It would be handy in future.

member_28042 · Post by **member_28042** » 11 Jan 2014 03:03

Hardball delivers diplomat - Bharara blinks on main charge

munna · Post by **munna** » 11 Jan 2014 03:04

Dipanker wrote:
SaiK wrote:so, how do we plan ahead so that this dk-ny-type issues don't prop up? I guess that is a requirement to move towards better relationship not just USA but other power nations as well.

Why not simply stop this maid business altogether?

The issue is not of maid but of intent and action between two sovereign entities. Whether it is that kid Krittika or that mom Devyani, there is a deeper story. To explain let me put it this way:

If I were a diplomat of India in US what is at stake for me?

You see a simple gesture of touching someone or even inadvertent brushing someone can be interpreted as "battery" under US laws, the degree varying state by state. Or, a pupil at my daughter or son's school could write hate mail to their teacher and the school may conveniently "indict" my progeny with the help of local helpful attorney.

In other words once I know that my government cannot ensure my safety then technically I remain at the mercy of US system. This is not a state of affairs that any diplomat would prefer to be in. A system collapse would ensue and the following scenarios can play out with ease:

1) Consular officials can be regularly threatened to give visas to dicey characters
2) No diplomat would dare take any off the bore task
3) Family and self threatened, people may compromise vital information
4) A malaise limited to higher bureaucracy and political class will come to afflict on duty station officers!
5) Wrong information and intelligence could be easily mis-fed into the Indian system

It is not the maid! Tomorrow they will find another pretext to mess our diplomats. No matter what law is broken by our diplomat or for that matter irrespective of bad optics, our diplomats are strictly off limits to foreign legal procedures or agencies. Civil diplomats should be as good a no go area for any foreign regime. The maids will stay on and so shall our IFS babus.