Indian Space Programme Discussion

member_28041 · Post by **member_28041** » 09 Jan 2014 23:05

dhiraj wrote:
nitinraj wrote:Now the planned ULV:

Single 2MN core stage : 2MN
4*2MN boosters : 8MN
Total Thrust : 10MN(I am not sure if this is the planned configuration of ULV)
slight modification

basic configuration could be
1 -SC core
2 S-200 Strap-on
1 -C-25 and probably future higher thrust cryos

other combinations could also be possible

As i understand, what you have mentioned above is not the ULV planned but is the next stage in the evolution of MK3.
In this configuration, ISRO will be replacing the vikas core with a 2MN SC engine.
This would increase the GTO capacity from 4 tonne to 6 tonne.

I read somewhere that there is a plan for a ULV(Universal launch vehicle) with the 2MN SC engines in core and booster.
So was confused regarding its configuration/thrust as well as the the advantage of that if we compare its total thrust to that of the improved MK3 mentioned above.

disha · Post by **disha** » 09 Jan 2014 23:10

nitinraj wrote: ...
Not able to get the payload advantage of ULV(with 2MN semi-cryo) over the MK3.

The first stage specs of MK3 is as follows :
2 Solid boosters, 5MN each. Total : 10MN
Twin vikas engine liquid stage : 1.6MN
Total Thrust: 11.6 MN

Now the planned ULV:

Single 2MN core stage : 2MN
4*2MN boosters : 8MN
Total Thrust : 10MN(I am not sure if this is the planned configuration of ULV)

Hence is it not the case that the planned ULV will have lesser thrust from the booster and first stage compared to the MK3?
Please correct me if i am wrong here.

Spot on Nitinraj.,

with all the hoo-ha going on how "old" the solid core tech is., how "inefficient" the solid core tech is., the solid core tech is not going to go away! It is *never* going to go away at least in the next 50 years of space exploration! However much Elon talks about the new fangled "CH4 - Gobar gas based" liquid tech or not.

Simple., if you want a very large reliable thrust boost, solid motor is a must. And with new material technology coming on (carbon fiber, nano-tech, 3D printing, titanium processing) - the efficiencies of a solid motor rocket may end up beating the liquid motor (UDMH kind) rocket engines!!

The only downside to a solid motor is that it cannot be restarted.

So from a designer point of view, it might be efficient to stack a CE7.5 over CE25 boosted by two S200. There that is my GSLV MkIII-D -

.

Sridhar · Post by **Sridhar** » 09 Jan 2014 23:16

nitinraj wrote:
Not able to get the payload advantage of ULV(with 2MN semi-cryo) over the MK3.

The first stage specs of MK3 is as follows :
2 Solid boosters, 5MN each. Total : 10MN
Twin vikas engine liquid stage : 1.6MN
Total Thrust: 11.6 MN

Now the planned ULV:

Single 2MN core stage : 2MN
4*2MN boosters : 8MN
Total Thrust : 10MN(I am not sure if this is the planned configuration of ULV)

Hence is it not the case that the planned ULV will have lesser thrust from the booster and first stage compared to the MK3?
Please correct me if i am wrong here.

While the exact design of the ULV has not been finalized, the likely configuration for the heavy version of the ULV will be a core stage with more than one (likely two) 2MN semi-cryo engines and two S-200 strap on boosters. The ULV series is designed to be modular, with the capability of having other configurations for boosters (e.g. for lower capacity, two S-139s, two-four L40s and even two-six of the 12.5T and 9T solid boosters used on different versions of the PSLV). The delta with respect to the MK3 (which ISRO now internally refers to as the LVM3) for the heavy version will be the 4MN thrust of the ULV's semi-cryo core stage vs. the 1.6MN thrust of the LVM3's core stage.

Furthermore, thrust is not the only variable of importance when thinking of the payload capacity of a launcher. The SC160 core stage of the ULV will carry more fuel than the L110 core stage of the LVM3, and has higher specific impulse (a measure of the efficiency of burning the fuel).

The ULV family can range in capacity from the capacity of a PSLV all the way to a heavy launcher with payload capacity of 30-40T to LEO, with the variation coming about through different boosters.

Sridhar · Post by **Sridhar** » 09 Jan 2014 23:28

I don't think in the ISRO scheme of things for the ULV family, solids are going away anywhere. There will be a place for solids (as boosters in most configurations), hypergolic liquids (as boosters in some configurations), semi-cryo (high thrust core stage) and cryo (upper stage). Even when the ULV family comes on line, there may be place for a small launcher like the core alone version of the PSLV, with its mix of solid and hypergolic liquid motors.

disha · Post by **disha** » 09 Jan 2014 23:34

^^ And that is the way world over all launcher families will be.

Sridhar · Post by **Sridhar** » 09 Jan 2014 23:51

Not really. Amongst the major launchers of the world, there are several with no solid engines anywhere. ISRO on the other hand has a lot of expertise and confidence in solids, and they will continue to have a place. Solids are used in several significant launchers around the world (e.g the Ariane family, in the past for the Space Shuttle), but they are also completely absent from several others. For instance, the Chinese Long March series, Delta IV family, Soyuz and its future replacement family of launchers.

disha · Post by **disha** » 10 Jan 2014 00:29

The Chinese want one for their Long march rockets but do not have one. Reportedly they plan to use Solid motor rocket booster for Long March 11.

In this case ISRO has stolen a long march over Chinese in Solid motor rocket booster. Having mastered, cryo and that too a staged-combustion., for ISRO to work on semi-cryo is plugging an engineering gap for its designers. But that cannot be said the same for Chinese.

For the US, there is a smorgasbord of options. Atlas and Antares have solid motors in their mix and Delta & SpaceX does not have solid rockets in their mix. In fact the Falcon heavy sounds more like an evolved N1 (ROFL). Particularly SpaceX is configuring everything around Merlin.

All of the above, Delta/Atlas/Antares/Falcon take an engineering route towards lowering the cost. And they are private, so they have options to target a niche area and specialize there. ISRO does not have an option to target a niche area and optimize its launches for that area.

For the Russians, Soyuz is a very reliable launcher (most reliable so far) that it will be difficult for them to move out of Soyuz-clone designs (the latest Angara is one such). And given that they have a very efficient family of cryo-engines, I do not think they would move out of their current design paradigm. At the same time, you do not go to Russians to launch a Geo Sat. By their very location and constraints, they are constrained to be specialized.

So coming back to NASA, its SLS is built around the solid rocket boosters.

To rephrase my statement - "All launcher families targeting varied launch paradigms will have a solid rocket booster component".

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Jan 2014 02:39

disha, I talked to a gora who had worked the floor when the RD-180 was brought over. He says the engines did not match the drawings that were handed over. Further the engines had jugaad type fixes to bypass blocked lines etc. Extremely klugey. No configuration control or mfg control as each was hand made.
All in all no production disciplines were adhered to.

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 10 Jan 2014 03:25

This is off topic but I want to discuss this for rocket engine knowledge in general.

The SLS rocket will use the Space Shuttle Main Engine (SSME) plus the solid rocket boosters, *if* it gets built (its enemies are legion). The SSME is a cryogenic, programmable feedback loop throtleable(sp?) engine. That is to say it is like a car engine in that you can give it the gas and speed it up or let off the gas and slow it down. That ladies and gentlemen, makes for a very expensive rocket engine. NASA has about 16 of these engines available for the SLS. They will be used to launch the SLS and then drop into the ocean. Ouch!

The J-2X the upper stage cryogenic engine that has been suspended in development, is a semi feedback loop adjustable engine and not as expensive as the SSME. Its thrust is about 75% of the SSME. Aerojet Rocketdyne hasn’t explained how they are accomplishing this, at least so that I can understand it.

The original J-2 cryogenic engine comes from the Saturn/Apollo upper stage. Its valves are built for optimal thrust and it is not adjustable. Naturally these upper stage engines are built to shut off in space and then re-start so that they can kick the vehicle out of earth orbit.

So, you’ve got fully adjustable feedback loop engines (expensive), semi adjustable (cheaper) and non adjustable engines (cheaper yet).
Plus you’ve got solid rocket boosters which are none of the above.

Thoroughly confused? So am I about the semi adjustable engines.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 10 Jan 2014 06:17

Challenges ISRO faced while developing cryogenic engine.

disha · Post by **disha** » 10 Jan 2014 07:02

ramana wrote:disha, I talked to a gora who had worked the floor when the RD-180 was brought over. He says the engines did not match the drawings that were handed over. Further the engines had jugaad type fixes to bypass blocked lines etc. Extremely klugey. No configuration control or mfg control as each was hand made.
All in all no production disciplines were adhered to.

Confirms my understanding and view of the way Russians work. And this was also in the video of RD180 on the staged combustion cycle.

Basically, the Russians designers hand over the drawings to the engineers/integrators/fabricators and they take over the design from that stage. They extend/contract (jugaadify) the design to come up with a workable solution. Then they put it in a rocket (why spend money behind testing) and test the entire damn rocket., till it works.

At that stage the engine is frozen. And since the Americans got their hand on "left-over" engines - they were all prototypes - none of those ever flew.

There are advantages and disadvantages with the above approach. In this case, the fabricators/integrators/engineers knew a good thing or two on coming up with strong metal that can sustain the temp/pressure which the designers were not aware off. Put it this way, the design is not limited by the lack of engineering knowledge of the designer. The disadvantage is, what you get is not what you envisaged. You get a different beast.

No different from how software was written (and is still written!). All the engineers curse the designer/architect and the final product is way off from the original design.

disha · Post by **disha** » 10 Jan 2014 07:10

TSJones wrote:This is off topic but I want to discuss this for rocket engine knowledge in general.

So, you’ve got fully adjustable feedback loop engines (expensive), semi adjustable (cheaper) and non adjustable engines (cheaper yet).
Plus you’ve got solid rocket boosters which are none of the above.

Thoroughly confused? So am I about the semi adjustable engines.

TSJones'ji., maybe NASA should outsource to ISRO. Faster, better, higher & Cheaper

Check this out : ISRO is already working on the adjustable feedback loop control for liquid motor engine - Or asked for Indian Univ. to submit a project to achieve that. - here it is http://www.isro.org/pdf/ResearchAreas%20in%20Space.pdf. Search for C9 (that is project code)

For the underline part not at all confusing., just difficult to explain*.

*Maybe if shishya is capable, then only guru can impart

(Just kidding, have to figure out a way to explain).

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 10 Jan 2014 18:28

Who would be the next country to develop an indigenous cryogenic engine and stage. Would it be Israel, Iran, South Korea or Brazil?

How long would it take them? How far are they along the path?

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 10 Jan 2014 18:41

ramana wrote:disha, I talked to a gora who had worked the floor when the RD-180 was brought over. He says the engines did not match the drawings that were handed over. Further the engines had jugaad type fixes to bypass blocked lines etc. Extremely klugey. No configuration control or mfg control as each was hand made.
All in all no production disciplines were adhered to.

Could have been done intentionally as well, why will Russia in it's sanity hand over tech to US in the first place ???

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 10 Jan 2014 18:43

disha wrote:Basically, the Russians designers hand over the drawings to the engineers/integrators/fabricators and they take over the design from that stage. They extend/contract (jugaadify) the design to come up with a workable solution. Then they put it in a rocket (why spend money behind testing) and test the entire damn rocket., till it works.

Are you sure of this saar cause wiki has a photograph of RD-180 under test.

member_23694 · Post by **member_23694** » 10 Jan 2014 18:59

http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/ ... 992628.ece

GSLV-D5 Twin may be Launched This Year

The good news

The ISRO hopes to launch the ‘twin’ - GSLV-D6 - by July or August this year, ISRO officials said.

one more

“The first stage and strap-ons for the GSLV Mk-III are ready. If the experiment is successful, we hope to have the first regular launch of the Mk-III version by 2015-end or the beginning of 2016,”

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 10 Jan 2014 19:21

^
That's really encouraging, because before, the first full mission of the GSLV Mark 3 was projected for as late as 2017. Something must be brewing, partly the confidence gained by the success of the Mark 2 vehicle?

member_23658 · Post by **member_23658** » 10 Jan 2014 19:52

Isro to launch the experimental GSLV MK3 with a crew module http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 609291.cms

In a major boost to Indian Space Research Organization's (Isro) ambition to launch a manned space mission, the experiments related to its crew module designed for orbital voyage would be conducted in April

...

"The crew module for the proposed manned mission will be flown on the Mk-III vehicle. This will be a sub-orbital flight to test the first stage and to ensure that the rocket gains five km/second velocity,'' said Dr Radhakrishnan, Isro chairman.

The crew module will be injected into the lower orbit and then made to re-enter the earth's atmosphere. It will be guided to land in a specified spot, most likely in the Bay of Bengal.

disha · Post by **disha** » 10 Jan 2014 21:40

Sagar G wrote:
disha wrote:Basically, the Russians designers hand over the drawings to the engineers/integrators/fabricators and they take over the design from that stage. They extend/contract (jugaadify) the design to come up with a workable solution. Then they put it in a rocket (why spend money behind testing) and test the entire damn rocket., till it works.
Are you sure of this saar cause wiki has a photograph of RD-180 under test.

When did NASA's Marshall's space flight center ended up in Russia? The photo was taken when it was ground tested by Americans. The location of the photo is right there below the photo.

disha · Post by **disha** » 10 Jan 2014 21:44

This is hilarious:

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/379 ... -mars.html

Parliamentary panel 'ignorant' of basics on Mars mission
Bangalore, Jan 8, 2014, DHNS:

Isro Chairman Dr K Radhakrishnan (second from left) explains about Mars orbiter mission to Parliamentary Standing Committee on Science, Technology, Environment and Forests Chairman T Subbarami Reddy (left) and others in Bangalore on Wednesday.DH Photo

A high profile body like the parliamentary committee is expected to know the basics of the subjects and domains it oversees.

But the Standing Parliamentary Committee on Science, Technology, Environment and Forests, which visited the Isro Satellite Integration and Testing Establishment (ISITE) here on Wednesday, was completely at a loss about India’s space programmes and the recent Mars mission.

Committee chairman T Subbarami Reddy, in conversation with Isro chairman K Radhakrishnan at ISITE, asked him, ”What is the life span of the Mars orbiter? Isro chairman replied, “six months”. Reddy said, ”What? Only six months? I thought it would last six years. Very sad, I am very sad that it will live only six months.” The chairman replied, “We have fuel only for six months.” {I say that ISRO Chairman should point out after 6 months mangalyaan will be in space searching for Cement - particularly black cement., this would have got more funds from T Subbarami Reddy}

Another committee member asked, “Will it die after that? Will it plunge into water? Will it burn?” The Isro chairman responded that it would become part of space debris.

vasu raya · Post by **vasu raya** » 11 Jan 2014 03:58

Is the plan to send SRE-2 on the GSLV Mk3 trial flight? based on what Amol.D has posted

Human Spaceflight Programme is at Beginning Stage: ISRO

vasu raya · Post by **vasu raya** » 11 Jan 2014 03:59

self deleted

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Jan 2014 05:16

TS Reddy was a cement transportation contractor for Nagarjuna Sagar Dam. He sold the cement dust from the gunny bag packings and got rich! Then he joined the Congress party and was on his way up.
Now he questions ISRO Chairman!

nash · Post by **nash** » 11 Jan 2014 08:50

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news-feed ... 71493.aspx

"New capabilities in earth observation are planned with the development of Geo Imaging Satellites(GISAT)to provide near real time images of large areas of the country."

how much is the possibility of using this SAT in military applications ? ... seem like it will be in orbit of GSAT only ..

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 11 Jan 2014 10:48

Don't know whether to

or

This guy has earlier visited ISRO. Still is knowledge is zero..
http://www.isro.gov.in/newsletters/cont ... ticle6.htm
Very wealthy and has bought a lot of reputation with his wealth.

http://www.archive.india.gov.in/govt/ra ... pcode=1872

ISRO chairman must have sung the song ...mere angane me..mere angane me... tera kya kaam hai...
congressi ajñānī uska bi bada naaam hai...

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 11 Jan 2014 11:46

nash wrote:http://www.hindustantimes.com/news-feed ... 71493.aspx

"New capabilities in earth observation are planned with the development of Geo Imaging Satellites(GISAT)to provide near real time images of large areas of the country."
how much is the possibility of using this SAT in military applications ? ... seem like it will be in orbit of GSAT only ..

Resolution of the imagery will be low, around 1 km or so, so only large structures can be reliably seen in the imagery from GISAT. So don't know about military utility.

member_28348 · Post by **member_28348** » 11 Jan 2014 13:33

i have an idea, hope isro officials at least give it a thought...

PSLV is i guess the cheapest way in the world to put small (1-1.5 tones) payloads in LEO.
how about making it a tiny space ferry for tourists? a very small capsule like mercury redstone, would take rich space enthusiast around the world in near space. that too in a much less price than what dennis tito payed or virgin is going to charge.

i bet they (rich people like dennis tito, even less rich than him and willing to go) would jump on this deal like a Halloween sale!

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 11 Jan 2014 14:02

GAGAN Ready for Operation - Anil Radhakrishnan, The Hindu

Aircraft equipped with the Satellite Based Augmentation System (SBAS) will henceforth be able to use GPS-Aided Geo Augmented Navigation (GAGAN) signal in Indian airspace for en route navigation and non-precision approaches without vertical guidance.

The commencement of a new chapter in the aviation sector of the country comes in the wake of the Director General of Civil Aviation (DGCA) certifying the GAGAN system to RNP0.1 (Required Navigation Performance 0.1 Nautical Mile) service level.

The SBAS consists of 15 Indian Reference Stations, three Indian Navigation Land Uplink Stations, three Mission Control Centres, three Geo-Stationary Navigation Payload in C and L bands and with all the associated software and communication links.

Mission control centres, along with associated uplink stations, have been set up at Kundalahalli in Bangalore. Another control centre and uplink station are in Delhi. A top official of the AAI said one of the Reference Stations has been housed outside the premises of the Thiruvananthapuram airport. The reference stations pick up signals from the orbiting GPS satellites. The measurements are immediately passed on to the mission control centres that then work out the necessary corrections that must be made. Messages carrying those corrections are sent via the uplink stations to the satellites in geostationary orbit that have the GAGAN payload.

Establishing position

The satellites then broadcast the messages. The SBAS receivers use those messages and apply the requisite corrections to the GPS signals, thereby establishing their position with considerable accuracy.

The GAGAN system is poised to next level of certification in the near future to offer precision approach services to the aircraft.

Jointly developed by the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) and the Airports Authority of India (AAI), the GAGAN system will offer seamless navigation to the aviation industry. The ISRO has confirmed that the DGCA certification was received on December 30 last.

With this, the country has become the fourth to offer safety of life, space-based satellite navigation services to the aviation sector. GAGAN will provide augmentation service for GPS over the country, Bay of Bengal, South East Asia and Middle East expanding up to Africa.

The availability of the GAGAN signal in the country’s air space will bridge the gap between European Union’s European Geostationary Navigation Overlay Service (EGNOS) and Japan’s Multi-functional Satellite Augmentation System (MSAS) coverage areas.

The benefits of GAGAN include improved efficiency, direct routes, increased fuel savings, approach with vertical guidance at runways, significant cost savings due to withdrawal of ground aids and reduced workload of flight crew and Air Traffic Controllers.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 11 Jan 2014 14:50

Yes had reported earlier through first hand confirmation that GAGAN SBAS signals are already available over India and are available for use with any device that supports SBAS. I guess they are using the same frequencies that the US WAAS uses. Russia reportedly is also working on their own SBAS that may also augment GLONASS apart from GPS.

I hope that we also augment IRNSS once that is operational.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 11 Jan 2014 17:44

Nations Debate Space Federation - Japan Times

WASHINGTON – Seeking to boldly go where few politicians have gone before, more than 30 space-faring nations gathered Thursday to map out ways to pool mankind’s efforts to explore the stars.

The U.S. State Department hosted the talks, bringing together high-level envoys from both American allies and countries that traditionally were seen as rivals in the race to conquer space.

“We all share a deep stake in extending humanity’s reach further into the solar system, advancing innovation further and faster, and extending the benefits of discovery to more people in more places,” Deputy Secretary of State Bill Burns said. “The question facing us today is whether we can muster the courage and political will to advance space exploration and ensure that cooperation continues to trump competition.”

Countries such as Brazil, China, Japan, India and Russia all sent delegations to the first such ministerial-level meeting focusing on space exploration, with participants listening to simultaneous translations through headsets (though no Klingon language was offered).

China, Japan and India are now also making a bid for supremacy in space. Last year, China made the first lunar landing in over four decades, sending out its Jade Rabbit rover vehicle to drive on the moon’s surface.

And in November, India successfully lifted into orbit a spacecraft bound for Mars as it bids to become the first Asian nation to reach the red planet.

While many countries already work together on space projects — including the $100 billion International Space Station — the aim of Thursday’s talks was to begin to set out guidelines for global cooperation for future efforts to explore deep into our solar system, and maybe even beyond.

“As the number of space-faring nations increases, as states’ monopoly on knowledge and technology erodes, and as commercial interest in space exploration grows, international cooperation will prove more important than ever,” Burns said.

More countries should be encouraged to take part in the ISS, and private efforts “vital to the next era of space exploration” should be boosted.

And there could also be greater collaboration in defending the planet from space debris and near-Earth objects, Burns said.

Heavy demands on over-stretched national budgets mean that “ambitious space exploration programs are beyond the individual capabilities of most countries,” said Paul Weissenberg, director general for enterprise and industry at the European Commission.

“Investing in space today is investing in employment, growth, innovation for tomorrow.”

Such investments should not be considered a luxury, but will reap dividends for research, new technologies, medical breakthroughs and job creation, he added.

“These are investments for the future of mankind,” agreed Enrico Saggese, president of the Italian space agency, highlighting the “responsibility as open-minded explorers” to build an “international space cooperation platform for peaceful purposes.”

Although NASA on Wednesday said the ISS will now operate for four more years, until 2024, the International Space Exploration Forum is already looking well into the future.

“Space exploration, through its broadening of the realms of human potential, is of common value to mankind,” said Hakubun Shimomura, Japan’s science and technology minister.

kit · Post by **kit** » 11 Jan 2014 19:26

Another attempt at creating a structure similar to the United Nations with its elitist P5 ! .. Americans are predictable

kit · Post by **kit** » 11 Jan 2014 19:30

nash wrote:http://www.hindustantimes.com/news-feed ... 71493.aspx

"New capabilities in earth observation are planned with the development of Geo Imaging Satellites(GISAT)to provide near real time images of large areas of the country."
how much is the possibility of using this SAT in military applications ? ... seem like it will be in orbit of GSAT only ..

Resolution of the imagery will be low, around 1 km or so, so only large structures can be reliably seen in the imagery from GISAT. So don't know about military utility.[/quote]

GISAT provides continuous monitoring of the sub continent in real time ..so it is strategically important with the right software and image processing.

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 11 Jan 2014 22:19

Not wholly sure if this article belongs here, please move to appropriate location if it doesn't

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home ... 684538.cms

India's first indigenously developed stratospheric balloon penetrates into mesosphere

Ch Sushil Rao,TNN | Jan 11, 2014, 07.12 PM IST

HYDERABAD: Under the High Altitude Balloon Development Project (HAA) a 61,000 cubic meters balloon indigenously developed in India at the Balloon Facility, Tata Institute of Fundamental Research (TIFR), Hyderabad penetrated into the mesosphere for the first time in India. So far only balloons from USA and Japan have accomplished this feat, TIFR has said.

The 61K cubic meter balloon weighing 31.0 kilograms was manufactured at Balloon Facility using the indigenously developed ultra-thin polyethylene film of thickness 3.8 micro meters (in comparison the finest human hair is around 17 micro meters in diameter).

The balloon carried a payload of 7.9 kilograms comprising Single Card Tele-Command with integrated Electronic Timer, Radio Trans receiver (Data Modem), Air traffic Control Transponder, Mobile telephony GSM-GPS for last leg tracking, upward looking video camera and two GPS-sondes for navigation and measurement of atmospheric parameters like pressure, temperature and humidity with a 4.3 meter diameter parachute weighing 3 kg for the safe recovery of instruments after the flight.

The balloon was launched at 0402 hours IST of January 7th 2014 from Balloon Facility campus located near Moula-Ali.

The balloon reached the maximum altitude of 51.661 kilometers in 2 hours 9 minutes and created the record. The flight was terminated at 0704 hours IST using Tele-Command. All the instruments performed well during the flight. The instruments safely landed near Husnabad town, Siddipet mandal, Karimnagar district in Andhra Pradesh and the recovery crew recovered the payload intact.

This is for the first time that a regular stratospheric balloon has penetrated the Mesosphere in India.

This breakthrough will provide an opportunity for our scientists working in the area of atmospheric dynamics to conduct experiments and collect data up to 50 km. Development work on increasing the payload capability of this balloon is in progress and the next flight with payload of 15 kilograms is planned during summer 2014 flight programme.

vasu raya · Post by **vasu raya** » 11 Jan 2014 22:38

good work!

sivab · Post by **sivab** » 12 Jan 2014 06:19

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news-feed ... 71493.aspx

India to launch Chandrayaan- II by 2016-17

India is gearing up to launch Chandrayaan-II by 2016-17, Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro) chairman Dr K Radhakrishnan said on Friday. “We are targeting end of 2016 or beginning of 2017. This time it will be an indigenous launch. Chandrayaan-II will be equipped with Indian lander and rover and will be launched by GSLV,” he said.
Chandrayaan–I, India’s first unmanned lunar probe was launched using a PSLV-XL rocket by Isro in 2008.

The ISRO chief said that Chandrayaan–II was supposed to be an Indo-Russia joint mission, but after a failed mission in 2011, Russia decided to review it. “The review would have put our mission on hold till 2017, so we decided to go ahead on our own and build our own lander and rover. We have done a feasibility study and would be able to develop a lander and rover in 2-3 years.

"There are important technological aspects that have to be considered including reducing the velocity, mechanism involved to land and locate precisely where to land.”

Talking about other projects in the pipeline he said, “Major focus will be on the development of next generation launch vehicle GSLV MK 111 which is currently in in its final stages. This will make us capable enough to launch 4T class communication satellite.

"New capabilities in earth observation are planned with the development of Geo Imaging Satellites(GISAT)to provide near real time images of large areas of the country."

Lauding the effort made by Isro to make its presence felt in the social media he said: “Our facebook page on Mars mission has generated more than 3 lakh likes. The page on GSLV has received over 39,000 likes in less than a week. Even our Twitter account has generated a large following. We are happy to see the enthusiasm this has generated among the youth. Now we will be using You Tube for spreading the story of India’s space programme.”

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 12 Jan 2014 13:32

disha wrote:When did NASA's Marshall's space flight center ended up in Russia? The photo was taken when it was ground tested by Americans. The location of the photo is right there below the photo.

My bad

But it's still hard to believe that Russians will do things so crudely.

member_28041 · Post by **member_28041** » 13 Jan 2014 12:56

The upper stage of Ariane 5 ECA(Current version) is HM7B(a cryogenic stage) with a thrust of 63 KN.
The interesting point is, our current cryo stage itself has a thrust of 73.5KN.

With the current HM7B, they are able to launch 10tonne geo sats.
They are also developing an higher thrust cryo stage of 180KN which is comparable to our own engine being developed for MK3.With the 180Kn engine, Ariane is increasing the capability to 12tonne to geo.

The 6 tonne geo capability of MK3 is itself given only when we use the 2MN semi-cryo stage.Ariane 5 is using a 1.1MN LH2/LOX stage in its place.

In short,

GSLV MK3:
2Solid stage : 2*5 : 10MN
1 or 2 ,2MN semi-cryo stage : 4MN
LH2/LOX upper stage : 200kn

Total Thrust : 14.2 MN
Total capability to geo : 4-6 tonne?

Ariane 5:
2Solid stage : 2*6 : 12MN
1 LH2/LOX stage : 1.1MN
LH2/LOX upper stage : 180kN(being developed,currently using 63KN HM7B)
Total Thrust : 13.3 MN
Total capability to geo : 12 tonne

This raises a few questions.
1) If we use our current cryogenic engine(CE7.5) on the GSLV MK3, cant it be used to launch a geo sat of around
3-3.5 tonne at least?
2) Why its said that the current GSLVMK3 has the growth potential of 4-6 tonne only when it is comparable to
Ariane 5(which has 12tonne capability with their new cryo stage)?That too when we will use a 2MN semi-cryo
engine in the future??

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 13 Jan 2014 19:32

nitinraj, correct me if I'm wrong -would love to be wrong on this one!- but doesn't the Indian cryo engine( flown last week) have a thrust of 7.35 KN or 7.5 KN, not 73 KN?

member_23694 · Post by **member_23694** » 13 Jan 2014 19:40

^^^^^^^
you are definitely wrong

Source WIKI
Thrust Nominal (Vacuum) - 75 kN
Operating Thrust Range - 73.55 kN to 93.1 kN (To be set at any fix values)

Second stage (Ariane 5 ECA)
Engines 1 HM7-B
Thrust 64.7 kN (14,500 lbf)
Specific impulse 446 seconds (4.37 km/s)
Burn time 960 seconds
Fuel LH2/LOX

Major differnce that i see is in terms of
burn time - 960 sec vs around 450 sec
also the weight of HM7-B = 165 KG vs 435 KG for CE 7.5

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 13 Jan 2014 20:16

dhiraj wrote:^^^^^^^
you are definitely wrong

Source WIKI
Thrust Nominal (Vacuum) - 75 kN
Operating Thrust Range - 73.55 kN to 93.1 kN (To be set at any fix values)

Second stage (Ariane 5 ECA)
Engines 1 HM7-B
Thrust 64.7 kN (14,500 lbf)
Specific impulse 446 seconds (4.37 km/s)
Burn time 960 seconds
Fuel LH2/LOX

Major differnce that i see is in terms of
burn time - 960 sec vs around 450 sec
also the weight of HM7-B = 165 KG vs 435 KG for CE 7.5

Thanks! What does the 7.5 in CE 7.5 signify? Guess this is where I'm confused/malinformed. Also, the standard burn time of the Indian CE 7.5 is 720 seconds, or 12 minutes, give or take a few seconds. I think, the engine fired last week for a little over 700 seconds, but it has been tested on the ground for a full 720.

On the whole then, which of the 2 engines is the more powerful? Not to imply any kind of direct competition here.