India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 11 Jan 2014 18:32

SSridhar wrote:Arjun, choose words carefully. Intent alone may not matter. Edit your post appropriately now.

Done

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 11 Jan 2014 18:39

Anmol ji,
Excellent work !

anmol · Post by **anmol** » 11 Jan 2014 18:44

Thank you

Hitesh · Post by **Hitesh** » 11 Jan 2014 19:01

Anmol,

Great job!! These need to be distributed immediately to all Indian media outlet, with the headlines, "US Embassy diplomats very anti India racists!"

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 11 Jan 2014 19:02

habal wrote:the whole ring may be compromised, and they cannot take out everybody causing massive loss of face. This could well be the reason behind DK's treatment by SD. Because DK caught hold of SR passing on some stuff over mobile. So she stole the mobile. DK then filed police case, which for obvious reasons was met with unusually cold interest by US cops. SR also went incognito. It will slowly come out, in DK's own words.

This aspect was never highlighted much by the media anywhere. This is the crux of the issue. What kind of information was on DK's personal/official mobile. SR could have absconded without doing this if it was just her acting alone.

ParasuramanS · Post by **ParasuramanS** » 11 Jan 2014 19:11

What's so shocking about this? This is how most if not all Amercans and Westerners feel.

If you want respect, then we need to respect ourselves. Instill strict reciprocity by LAW. Instill a foreign and defence policy of ruthless aggression. Throw NGO's and foreign governmental "charity" and "social" activities out. Why does the US need to so many embassy staff here? We need to similarly look at the embassies of Canada, Australia/NZ, China, Pakistan, UK, as well as all EU countries.

The moment any diplomatic stuff posts these condascending view online/onprint in official or unofficial capacities - it should be grounds for expulsion! If we follow such a rule consistently and always, then things will change. Otherwise, you are only encouraging such behaviour.

Only after sufficiently deterring foreign interventions (overt and covert), can we properly clean our house internally (corruptions, etc.) and grow your economy without breaking India forces at work. This is important - Otherwise we will be fighting a losing war. A slow death.

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 11 Jan 2014 19:14

What it sounds like to me is that these people are having career burnout problems. I mean these people are not your average Americans. Many of them are multi-lingual and they are competitive positions they are filling. Not just anybody gets hired for these positions. IIRC correctly there are initial tests you have to take and pass and there is 5 year probationary period, etc. So you have to really want it and work to get it. And you know what's funny? When they get back home, I'll bet they get bored after a while and try to get posted overseas again. I saw that in the military. It's like bitching at work mostly. Then you get laid off and you miss work and want to go back. I saw that in the military too. Guys get out and then 6 months later they are back again. What would concern me is if they go native. That's not good. If you go native who are you representing? You're country that hired you or your host country? So it's a fine line to balance on. You can like your host country but don't lose your head. But I really think these guys are suffering career burnout. This twitter thing is going to make waves internally in the State Department HQ.

When I visit clients I don't talk bad about the client over the client's telephone system because they're listening. I don't discuss personal problem's either. When I have to, I step outside and use my cell phone. These guys need to get a clue.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 11 Jan 2014 19:17

The typical MUTU stance is that India should defend itself only after fixing all its problems. Since no matter what India's problems extend into the indefinite future, the MUTU's stance means India should defend itself never.

The realist would point out that today's India has a ton of inherited problems precisely because it has been rather ineffective in defending itself in the past. Never again!

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 11 Jan 2014 19:18

Lilo wrote:Anmol ji,
Excellent work !

+100

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 11 Jan 2014 19:22

This Wyane fellow was running parallel investigation agency with about 426 staff. How India is allowing this large a contingent ??
http://www.financialexpress.com/news/de ... /1217706/2

Wayne, who has put in over 27 years of service in the US government and managed the more than 420 security staff and investigative officers at the mission in New Delhi, was the main liaison to Indian police agencies for high profile visits from the US and was the coordinator from the American side to the anti-terrorism assistance programme.

No Wonder he was instrumental in inaction by Delhi Police ACP who now needs to be investigated.

the Diplomatic Security Bureau since 1988, has worked in Thailand, Colombia, Niger, Singapore and Greece before being posted to India in 2010. He was in charge of the entire security and investigation team in India that included a “deputy regional security officer for investigations, four assistant regional security officers, two office management specialists, one residential security coordinator, six foreign service national investigators, 10 marine security guards and 400 local guard personnel”.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 11 Jan 2014 19:26

TSJones wrote:What it sounds like to me is that these people are having career burnout problems. I mean these people are not your average Americans. Many of them are multi-lingual and they are competitive positions they are filling. Not just anybody gets hired for these positions. IIRC correctly there are initial tests you have to take and pass and there is 5 year probationary period, etc. So you have to really want it and work to get it. And you know what's funny? When they get back home, I'll bet they get bored after a while and try to get posted overseas again. I saw that in the military. It's like bitching at work mostly. Then you get laid off and you miss work and want to go back. I saw that in the military too. Guys get out and then 6 months later they are back again. What would concern me is if they go native. That's not good. If you go native who are you representing? You're country that hired you or your host country? So it's a fine line to balance on. You can like your host country but don't lose your head. But I really think these guys are suffering career burnout. This twitter thing is going to make waves internally in the State Department HQ.

When I visit clients I don't talk bad about the client over the client's telephone system because they're listening. I don't discuss personal problem's either. When I have to, I step outside and use my cell phone. These guys need to get a clue.

Well I knew they are third rate morons. Now I saw the proof as well. Truly Low IQ is prime requirement for getting into Marines, Police and diplomutt services in US . That could be one reason why Americans are hated worldwide for actions of these morons.

You are wise to hide your feelings. But how long can one hide true feelings? It comes out at some point in time.

member_28352 · Post by **member_28352** » 11 Jan 2014 19:31

^^^ How much importance USGOV gives to relationship with India is borne out by the appointment of head of mall security as anti terrorism coordinator. For all effects and purposes this guy's job description is that of head of mall security. BTW most Indian mall security heads in the private sector are retired JCOs/NCOs. So this guy is way junior to any Indian IFS babu. Isn't it interesting that the anti terrorism representative isn't the FBI guy or the CIA station head but the head of mall security. Phew !!! And our babus were taking this shit for all these years. Wow !!! and we expect them to do something. Amazing. Some things need to change by law. Indian law should require that no foreign diplomutt can be posted in India for more than three years at a stretch. I don't also think this is against Vienna Convention as this condition merely relates to length of service and not treatment of diplomat that is covered under the convention.

vina · Post by **vina** » 11 Jan 2014 19:32

Anmol, quick, save ALL that Facebook postings a by those critters ,if you already haven't. You don't want it to be scrubbed clean by these dicks. Gosh , I wish some one hires a giant bill board hoarding in Delhi and puts it up in front of Parliament and the US Embassy. Also have iT posted in NYC and the Bay Area and Houston, and let the folks there see what the people who are representing them in Delhi think of them and their food habits and stuff

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 11 Jan 2014 19:32

Good job Anmol!
Looks like some of the Facebook posts have been deleted...

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 11 Jan 2014 19:36

sunilUpa wrote:Good job Anmol!
Looks like some of the Facebook posts have been deleted...

How wonderful - this shows that BR is indeed monitored and probably with someone already commenting etc !Anyway it already has gone on FB by alternate means !!

anmol · Post by **anmol** » 11 Jan 2014 19:42

sunilUpa wrote:Good job Anmol!
Looks like some of the Facebook posts have been deleted...

vina wrote:Anmol, quick, save ALL that Facebook postings a by those critters ,if you already haven't. You don't want it to be scrubbed clean by these dicks. Gosh , I wish some one hires a giant bill board hoarding in Delhi and puts it up in front of Parliament and the US Embassy. Also have iT posted in NYC and the Bay Area and Houston, and let the folks there see what the people who are representing them in Delhi think of them and their food habits and stuff

I have PDF'ed both the profiles.

Ardeshir · Post by **Ardeshir** » 11 Jan 2014 19:42

Someone has put them on tumblr already.
http://racistdiplomatsusa.tumblr.com/

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 11 Jan 2014 19:43

TSJones wrote:When I visit clients I don't talk bad about the client over the client's telephone system because they're listening. I don't discuss personal problem's either. When I have to, I step outside and use my cell phone. These guys need to get a clue.

I would have thought that not talking bad of your host country in public would be basic Diplomatese 101....! Seems to be a more fundamental problem with the SOP followed by US counsels overseas. I can never imagine any Indian consul or diplomat using language as disgusting for ANY country in public. This is extremely troubling.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 11 Jan 2014 19:44

anmol wrote: I have PDF'ed both the profiles.

Fantastic job, Anmol !

Kati · Post by **Kati** » 11 Jan 2014 19:45

^^^
Anmol-saab, pranaam.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 11 Jan 2014 19:47

anmol wrote: I have PDF'ed both the profiles.

Nice job saar.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 11 Jan 2014 19:51

Prasant wrote:Someone has put them on tumblr already.
http://racistdiplomatsusa.tumblr.com/

that was fast!

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 11 Jan 2014 19:55

India draws extreme opinions from western visitors. Some hate it while others love it so much that they go native. Obviously, India is far from a spruced up western country. We should focus on the unusual case of DK instead of this.

member_26011 · Post by **member_26011** » 11 Jan 2014 19:56

Can't reach the facebook page now -- can anyone post the URLs too?
This has to be preserved, people reminded. Thanks for saving the images.

So was this guy May simply doing the "lord's" work by evacuating SR's family from dirty India and the heathens? He did this on his own or was he "just following orders". May be both.

a real eye opener, if there was one, thanks anmol!

Kati · Post by **Kati** » 11 Jan 2014 19:57

^^^
Is there a typo in that tumblr link?
"Ever" instead of "Every"?

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 11 Jan 2014 19:57

As they say never post something on the net that you dont want your enemy or someone else ever to see. Frankly was she so dumb to post these on FB being in such a sensitive post ? All it needs is to now post these on NDTV and other websites. By the way is she also leaving with her hubby ? Could send reporters to interview her.

member_28352 · Post by **member_28352** » 11 Jan 2014 20:02

^^^Visitors? No sir, these aren't visitors. They are phat ass babu monkeys paid for by the US Gobarmund to ostensibly promote relationships between the two nations. If they personally are this racist you can imagine how these guys are going about doing their job. Frankly I don't care what genuine visitors from the US think about India. I get his green dollars and I am happy with it. If he doesn't like some aspect of my country he can stuff that opinion up any of his orifices. I gather that the perverts have a fantasy with insertion of foreign objects in body cavities. So to each pervert his own. Lastly this matter is intimately related to the DK affair. These two mutts gave the visas and the paperwork for SR's family to travel out of here.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 11 Jan 2014 20:05

As Devyani Khobragade exits US to return to India, a culture clash lingers - TOIlet/NYT

Devyani Khobragade's father, Uttam Khobragade, said that his daughter was under strict orders not to give interviews, but told an anecdote that suggested she left with bitter feelings — toward Ms. Richard, toward Ms. Richard's husband and toward the United States government.

"Devyani was seen off at the airport by an official of the State Department," he told reporters Friday morning. "He told Devyani that, 'Madam, I am sorry, and it was wrong.' She told the official, 'You have lost a good friend. It is unfortunate. In return, you got a maid and a drunken driver. They are in, and we are out.' "

One thing that has baffled American observers — in particular Preet Bharara, the United States attorney in Manhattan — is why there is so little outrage about the alleged treatment of Ms. Richard. In fact, Indian newspapers routinely carry stories about abuse of domestic workers, and many people interviewed said the sympathy would have been with the accuser had the case occurred in India.

But because it was the United States, and Ms. Khobragade represented India, many people interviewed saw her treatment as a humiliation for the country.

"You have to take Devyani out of this, the support is for her position," said Subhajit Sengupta, one of the journalists who camped outside Terminal 3. "What she has done is wrong. What the U.S. has done is also wrong. Since what the U.S. has done is against a country, it will be taken as a matter of prestige."

Maneesha Puri, 53, said the pay given to domestic help is "our concern." And she expressed sputtering indignation that a woman of Ms. Khobragade's social position would be strip-searched.

"What kind of checking are they doing, strip-checking?" she said. "She is a diplomatic person and you strip her and check her because the maid says she was ill-treated? It's ridiculous. It's not that she had employed an American servant. This was an Indian servant."

Whether the case now fades off the national agenda depends in part on whether Ms. Khobragade speaks publicly about it.

Shweta Bajaj, one of the journalists who spent Friday night staking the diplomat out, said she had been shocked and a little mystified at the intensity of the attention given to the Khobragade case this winter. She said it was the first time in her career as a journalist that she had seen India "make such a stand against America."

"It's not even Pakistan," she said.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 11 Jan 2014 20:06

A_Gupta wrote:The typical MUTU stance is that India should defend itself only after fixing all its problems. Since no matter what India's problems extend into the indefinite future, the MUTU's stance means India should defend itself never.

The realist would point out that today's India has a ton of inherited problems precisely because it has been rather ineffective in defending itself in the past. Never again!

In India, neither the USA diplomats are arrested nor forced to take sides. The USA diplomats are on their own behavior and are free to do so. On the other hand, MUTUs are persistent in selective propaganda/ selective silence routine by choice even in most powerful USA. This is creating a cover of ignorance and propaganda about a clear fact that PIOs/NRIs have no power to affect behavior of USDoS or 'diplomatic security' department; or USA not adhering to international conventions; or SoP NY style: for all these NRIs/PIOs aren't forming policy but at most following policy set by officials- in this case USDoS. Its because of this that someone drags NRIs/PIOs in this every page. Fact is some MUTUs may have to take sides because of other MUTUs/whites probing them 'innocently' under propaganda rhetoric or because of selective policy itsef within USA. So point is why are NRIs/PIOs dragged in this or any culture clash when power lies not with NRIs/PIOs but USDoS here.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 11 Jan 2014 20:10

Once this issue blows up - the US might try to suppress matters by claiming that Alicia May is following her husband out of the country. Before that happens, it is important that India formally EXPELS Alicia for her outrageous slander of the country in public postings.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 11 Jan 2014 20:15

That article by NY Times is so full of patronizing BS and barely disguised "oh we come from such a superior culture" rubbish. I mean the pathetic cretins don't even bother disguising their racism.

One thing that has baffled American observers — in particular Preet Bharara, the United States attorney in Manhattan — is why there is so little outrage about the alleged treatment of Ms. Richard. In fact, Indian newspapers routinely carry stories about abuse of domestic workers, and many people interviewed said the sympathy would have been with the accuser had the case occurred in India.

Oh the cultural disconnect is because Indians are not so generous as Americans and are ok with mistreatment of domestic workers.

Maneesha Puri, 53, said the pay given to domestic help is "our concern." And she expressed sputtering indignation that a woman of Ms. Khobragade's social position would be strip-searched.

Maneesha Puri's indignation is "sputtering". She mentions the fact that a woman diplomat was strip searched, and it has nothing to do with a woman being mistreated or that a diplomat was mistreated, no, its "a woman of Ms K's social position", namely that its all social position alone.

Shweta Bajaj, one of the journalists who spent Friday night staking the diplomat out, said she had been shocked and a little mystified at the intensity of the attention given to the Khobragade case this winter. She said it was the first time in her career as a journalist that she had seen India "make such a stand against America.""It's not even Pakistan," she said.

Oooh, the primitives only usually agitate against fellow primitives, look even a primitive says so..lets end on that "sardonic" note.

The Economist and NYTimes and their parent publications need to be banned from India for their racist, invariably biased rubbish. They have no business making any money off of India.

Given they hate India and Indians so much and think Indians are but their slaves to be described any which way, they should be given no foothold in India.

rgosain · Post by **rgosain** » 11 Jan 2014 20:17

Usually when diplomats are expelled, their identities are witheld. In this case because the diplomat interposed himself within an ongoing legal dispute that questioned the legal competency and jurisdiction of India's judiciary, his name was released, therefore ending his diplomatic career. No country will grant him immunity under the VCCR 1963 protocols given his record here.
By choosing to intervene in India's legal system, it now becomes imperative for the GOI to initiate proceedings against Headley and his handlers, as I suspect in the past, India might have been reluctant to be seen to interferring in the legal processes of the USA.

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 11 Jan 2014 20:21

Supratik wrote:India draws extreme opinions from western visitors. Some hate it while others love it so much that they go native. Obviously, India is far from a spruced up western country. We should focus on the unusual case of DK instead of this.

Supratik, They are more than visitors, they represent US in India.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 11 Jan 2014 20:25

"It's not even Pakistan" ! Fact is the diplomat does complain of missing tap water on one hand but has to be 'polite' about drinking tea/coffee thing during Sufi music event says exactly where she could have a better job experience and where diplomats could have to have a polite lifestyle I.e. Pakistan.

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 11 Jan 2014 20:26

If the name is outed what will be the further actions. I remember a lot of noise when one such diplomats name was revealed.

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 11 Jan 2014 20:29

prasannasimha wrote:
sunilUpa wrote:Good job Anmol!
Looks like some of the Facebook posts have been deleted...
How wonderful - this shows that BR is indeed monitored and probably with someone already commenting etc !Anyway it already has gone on FB by alternate means !!

oh, this forum has got someone's full attention alright. I can't honestly say if that is good or bad. But they're watching. Any way, this twitter issue will resonate in the Supreme HQ in Washington. SD employees are going to clam up by directive. Stupid, really stupid......sometimes I despair.

rgosain · Post by **rgosain** » 11 Jan 2014 20:32

Hi Prasannasimha: Diplomacy comes down to integrity and tactfullness amd no country will want to work with a diplomat who has behaved in such a manner. His association with Brahara makes him png in places such as France, Russia and China as Brahara was involved in l'affaire DSK.

Ardeshir · Post by **Ardeshir** » 11 Jan 2014 20:35

Well, as per on of the facebook posts http://racistdiplomatsusa.tumblr.com/image/72975652589 the guy is a CIA agent. That should have some repercussions with regards to his career, but then again, he looks like he's well past retirement age.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Jan 2014 20:36

What levers did Paris push to free dsk from jail?

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 11 Jan 2014 20:37

Guys, in an earlier post, I was highlighted this Pavolvian reflex white Americans have in adopting a self righteous posture. It requires people like me who have lived and rubbed shoulders with Americans for over 20 years to realize how skin deep this posturing is (and more erudite scholars like Rajiv Malhotra to do a Purva Paksha and return the gaze by putting a mirror in front of white more articulately than I can), and how cowardly, naive many NRI MUTU morons (and many in India) are in lapping this up like mental midgets, and looking at India from the same self righteous pedestal. Please note, I am by no means saying Americans are evil, just pointing out why Indian PoV on DK issue won't cut any ice, nada, zilch, on the white American mind. This NYT report only confirms what I said

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/11/world ... in-us.html

One thing that has baffled American observers — in particular Preet Bharara, the United States attorney in Manhattan — is why there is so little outrage about the alleged treatment of Ms. Richard. In fact, Indian newspapers routinely carry stories about abuse of domestic workers, and many people interviewed said the sympathy would have been with the accuser had the case occurred in India.

But because it was the United States, and Ms. Khobragade represented India, many people interviewed saw her treatment as a humiliation for the country.

“You have to take Devyani out of this, the support is for her position,” said Subhajit Sengupta, one of the journalists who camped outside Terminal 3. “What she has done is wrong. What the U.S. has done is also wrong. Since what the U.S. has done is against a country, it will be taken as a matter of prestige.”

So this MUTU SOB Preet Bakara is outraged from a pedestal of morality that us Indians don't look at the maid's side of the story. Yes we do. But we have the Indian context in mind. I just returned from India after a 3-week long trip, and while of course, one needs to look into how servants and maids are treated, but in the larger context of India's economic conditions, India's per capita income, India's social ills etc, you name it, the emoluments SR was getting was indeed pretty fair.

But again, even assuming Americans are generous and speaking from the heart regarding this maid, there was no f^&(ing need to humiliate DK and put such huge song and dance about their superiority and compassion for the maid (and I am even discounting whether the maid was a fraud seeking a green card through this circus). All that US had to do was just use their brains to understand this Indian context, and assuming India is indeed an important partner and fellow democracy doing its best to combat social ills, and if in fact the revelations about DK and maid was going to cause some hic-cups locally, i.e., by these labor rights busy bodies, they could have resolved the matter in a heart beat. But somebody wanted to teach India a lesson, somebody wanted to humiliate DK and India, and this circus was willfully allowed to play out using the abominable Uncle Tom Preet Bakara as a pliant tool.