India-US Strategic News and Discussion

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 12 Jan 2014 20:59

^^^ IMO! the best strategic asset (next to presenting a united front externally) is to remove the barriers to growth of the economy. Much of the barriers have to do with wrong-headed regulation, poor governance, grand and petty corruption. Good relations with ASEAN, Europe, etc., will buffer any US hostility.

kenop · Post by **kenop** » 12 Jan 2014 21:10

Lilo wrote:For those overcome with schadenfreude at the fate of DK at the beginning of the episode citing various justifications like lack of punctuality , waiting times , curtness ,"corruption", imperiousness,lack of a smile and a litany of other whines with respect to Indian consular or diplomatic officials dealings with PIOs and NRIs in their Massa postings...

I have heard from a massan person who was on a trip to a couple of countries trying to sell some business proposal/idea. He had a local connection/reference in each of the place he visited on the trip. Additionally, he wanted to get some more connections from the closest US consulates which he visited. From what I got from him, he was quite dissatisfied with the treatment he received (not quite useful info or unprepared people). On one occasion, the official he was to meet did not invite him inside, but stepped out and they had a 15 minute discussion on the pavement !! I said to him that maybe the official wanted to make it informal (I forgot to ask if the official used a smoke break to handle one item on his list).

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 12 Jan 2014 21:10

Why couldn't she bring her kids with her to India ? They are young and can adjust to life in India. Does the fact that they are US citizens come in the way of her taking them to India, under the circumstances she had to leave the US. In any case, her husband can accompany them and bring them to India. So it all depends on him. He has not spoken much at all to the media, even in the US. I am a little surprised at his silence too.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 12 Jan 2014 21:13

Well lot of changes have taken place in these areas. But many where talking about US as bulwork against China in times of need for India. I doubt this would ever happen. Luckily India did not fall for this trap. As for Europe and ASEAN congis did scale down and did not initiate much in this area. Things are changing here as well.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 12 Jan 2014 21:15

Bade wrote:Why couldn't she bring her kids with her to India ? They are young and can adjust to life in India. Does the fact that they are US citizens come in the way of her taking them to India, under the circumstances she had to leave the US. In any case, her husband can accompany them and bring them to India. So it all depends on him. He has not spoken much at all to the media, even in the US. I am a little surprised at his silence too.

Kids can come to India and Husband can take citizenship too. No issues.He can denounce US and come to India and teach wine philosophy if there is any such thing.

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 12 Jan 2014 21:22

I think they were focusing on first getting DK out of US and US airspace as fast as possible.

Shankk · Post by **Shankk** » 12 Jan 2014 21:23

Sanjay · Post by **Sanjay** » 12 Jan 2014 21:24

He had full immunity. Even if he murdered the PM you can't touch him without their waiving it.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Jan 2014 21:30

DK's husband's silence could be under legal advise. Usually the standard lawyer advice is to be mum and let the prosecution have a field day.

He seems to be an intellectual and to ascribe motives without evidence is not becoming of BR.
So paarkalam or lets wait and see.

Bade, DK's father said the kids are in school and didnt want to disrupt and if needed the will come to India.

Shankk · Post by **Shankk** » 12 Jan 2014 21:30

Sanjay wrote:He had full immunity. Even if he murdered the PM you can't touch him without their waiving it.

So did DK but that didn't help her. Human trafficking and tax manipulation is much more serious crime than paying less to maid.

vasu raya · Post by **vasu raya** » 12 Jan 2014 21:35

Irony of life, the May family which lends a slave like treatment to their native gardener is the one that spirits away the maid's family to indict DK on trumped up trafficking charges, and DK is separated from the family, I think she should fight back in US courts at a personal level supported by the Indian gov.

Significantly, its an MO we have seen in the Indian cryogenic case as well with Nambi Narayan only exonerated after a good 10-15 years by the Indian courts. PB, Sreekumar are just useful ...

Indian system forces some settlements by sheer delay
US system exaggerates charges to get into settlements

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Jan 2014 21:42

I think now that DK has very good first hand experience with US system she should be out in the America desk so the US diplomats get to meet her in Delhi every time they visit and think over what they did.

Multatuli · Post by **Multatuli** » 12 Jan 2014 21:48

Sen_K wrote:

Really amazed to see Ajai Shukla on ndtv boot-licking the us on the issue.

India, US headed for deep diplomatic freeze

http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/left-r ... ostpopular

Sickening! I think Shooklaws head has grown too big because of his appearances on tv as a "Defense Analyst". The fellow may know something about how a gun works and perhaps how to use tanks, etc. because of his Indian Army background, but he demonstrated quite conclusively that he doesn't know the first thing about diplomatic relations and norms. He had no business being there in the first place, why was that buffoon invited to be part of the panel?

The way he sat there with that smug face, stabbing India in the back!

CRamS wrote:

From this morning's papers, I do sense that Indians have had enough of this and want to kiss and make up with super power US.

Yes that is exactly the problem with India! No principles and no group solidarity! Let's just throw Devyani Khobragade under the bus to earn a few brownie points with Americans! These despicable retards don't care (or perhaps realize) that by doing so, they also lower themselves (even further) in the eyes of the "White Pakis" (as Lilo calls them so aptly).

And then there is that "economist" in that current affairs show! I forgot the buffoon's name, well it doesn't matter. Shale gas exploration in the USA will lower the price of natural gas globally, India will benefit from this even if India doesn't import a single cubic meter from the USA. And wouldn't it make more sense for the USA to sell their shale gas to Japan, South Korea and West European countries, because of the shorter distance the liquefied natural gas has to travel?

CRamS wrote:

It just makes blood boil, that with all its moral pontifications which mean nothing byond the surface of the skin, US has destroyed a family. As I mentioned, this is a personal tragedy for DK.

I wish Devyani ji and her family strength. Please don't give up! And do not listen to the the Ajay Shooklaws (thoo!) in India, their kind will always sell out and attack Indians with courage, with a backbone.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Jan 2014 21:53

If we strip away all our inherent human biases at the simplest level the May couple engineered the DK arrest and humiliation in NYC and got approval of US higher ups who did not question the agent in field assessment due to passive oversight use of hot button codewords :human trafficking, domestic slavery etc. The Richards family too was exfilrated by them as their fingerprints are all over the place.

Now why did they do that? Ms May comments on Facebook show no love for India or Indians but a hatred for Indian vegetarians. Could be an EJ link as the Richards were neither Hindus nor vegetarians.

At the highest level the case is a hostile act by Govt of US against a friend and ally.

The truth should be between the two extremes.

vic · Post by **vic** » 12 Jan 2014 21:57

chaanakya wrote:
nawabs wrote:How will this episode affect Indo-US relations?

Those who were dealing with Indo-US relationship, like former Indian Ambassador to the US, Nirupama Rao, need to have a reality check.
Well She is compromised while serving as Indian Amby in US. She was more interested in post retirement placement in US then Reality Check.Well there are few such officers in MEA and elsewhere in GOI who would sell nation for their personal gains. Then there are others who have nation at their heart.Need to promote them.

Nirupama Rao belongs to the branch of IFS called "Indians in Foreigners Servitude"

sivab · Post by **sivab** » 12 Jan 2014 22:13

anmol wrote:
I have posted everything in this tumblr(all pics and backup of their profiles) with no editorializing:

http://duckduckduckdoge.tumblr.com/

anmolji, the site is being noticed in twitter world by some journo's in MSM. A request to move 2 smuggling ops posts and indian vegetarian are rapists posts to top along with dog post. Smuggling ops posts have potential legal implications, so it should get maximum attention. Thanks.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 12 Jan 2014 22:15

Sanjay wrote:He had full immunity. Even if he murdered the PM you can't touch him without their waiving it.

I think GOI said equal rank officer is being expelled so he would have consular level immunity and could have been booked on various charges including those of Section 66A of IT for facebook postings. These are non bailable and taste of Tihar could have been given briefly before deporting him. His wifey might have full immunity being first secretary rank but she is not expelled.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 12 Jan 2014 22:15

TSJones wrote:Alicia's job was to make friends with India. I don't think she can do that anymore. She is gone as soon as it can be done practically.

Was she community liaison for Americans in India? Then her job description would be different.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 12 Jan 2014 22:15

vic wrote:
Nirupama Rao belongs to the branch of IFS called "Indians in Foreigners Servitude"

Brown University is the perfect place for her.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 12 Jan 2014 22:19

vic wrote:
chaanakya wrote:[quote="nawabs How will this episode affect Indo-US relations? Those who were dealing with Indo-US relationship, like former Indian Ambassador to the US, Nirupama Rao, need to have a reality check. quote] Well She is compromised while serving as Indian Amby in US. She was more interested in post retirement placement in US then Reality Check.Well there are few such officers in MEA and elsewhere in GOI who would sell nation for their personal gains. Then there are others who have nation at their heart.Need to promote them.
Nirupama Rao belongs to the branch of IFS called "Indians in Foreigners Servitude"

^
That's a slippery slope and if taken further will eventually become a self goal.

Remember Ronen Sen and his headless chicken comment on Indian politicos wrt N deal ?
The same guy now in India and retired, regularly disses Massa on TV shows and also wrt Devyani affair.

What I mean is keeping up pretense (which is their Job discription) doesn't mean high officials are disloyal ,
however this doesnt mean that they can be absolved of their failure and ineptitude - as Hardeep Singh puts it the massa policy for past decade has been ineffectual and this is due to preponderance of carrots and sparing of stick . Course correction is required -and new govt in 2014 will be well placed to effect one.

RCase · Post by **RCase** » 12 Jan 2014 22:23

ramana wrote:If we strip away all our inherent human biases at the simplest level the May couple engineered the DK arrest and humiliation in NYC and got approval of US higher ups who did not question the agent in field assessment due to passive oversight use of hot button codewords :human trafficking, domestic slavery etc. The Richards family too was exfilrated by them as their fingerprints are all over the place.

Now why did they do that? Ms May comments on Facebook show no love for India or Indians but a hatred for Indian vegetarians. Could be an EJ link as the Richards were neither Hindus nor vegetarians.

At the highest level the case is a hostile act by Govt of US against a friend and ally.

The truth should be between the two extremes.

If it is the first case, we should see some SD action taken against the Mays for trigerring a crisis in due course of time. If not, then this is not a 'low level state actors' operation.

I think once it got to PB and DoJ, it became quite messy (like a PBJ sandwich) with the evacuation and press annoucement. It would have become a turf war and SD folks would have had to tread carefully, lest allegations of 'obstruction of justice' and domestic politics. (Even Bill Clinton had to tread carefully on the legal front). My observation is that in the US, these kinds of situations bring out the cut throat and back stabbing nature of indivduals into sharp focus, in their pursuit of self promotion. We have seen this time and again in the corporate world and with politicians - they will put piranahs to shame.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 12 Jan 2014 22:24

Not necessarily. Unkil got rid of communists with McCarthyism though that was ethically not correct. It did serve the purpose at the time.

Madhusudhan · Post by **Madhusudhan** » 12 Jan 2014 22:24

Guys any specific hashtag we should be using to coordinate twitter messaging of the FB site?

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 12 Jan 2014 22:27

^ #AliciaMay is the one I used. Search for it to get my and (others?) tweets on this matter .

Sanjay · Post by **Sanjay** » 12 Jan 2014 22:35

Shankk wrote:
Sanjay wrote:He had full immunity. Even if he murdered the PM you can't touch him without their waiving it.
So did DK but that didn't help her. Human trafficking and tax manipulation is much more serious crime than paying less to maid.

(1) DK wasn't charged with just paying less to maid.

(2) DK may have had full immunity - US SD said no, GOI said yes.

I am assuming worse case scenario.

The one thing that needs to be emphasized here is that even in the expulsion, GOI adhered strictly to the letter and even the spirit of the VCCR.

Equal rank officer is not the same as consular. That is a duty not a rank per se.

The person was an Embassy official - not a consular one - of the rank equivalency of the Dep. Consular Gen

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 12 Jan 2014 22:38

RCase wrote:
If it is the first case, we should see some SD action taken against the Mays for trigerring a crisis in due course of time. If not, then this is not a 'low level state actors' operation.

I think once it got to PB and DoJ, it became quite messy (like a PBJ sandwich) with the evacuation and press annoucement. It would have become a turf war and SD folks would have had to tread carefully, lest allegations of 'obstruction of justice' and domestic politics. (Even Bill Clinton had to tread carefully on the legal front). My observation is that in the US, these kinds of situations bring out the cut throat and back stabbing nature of indivduals into sharp focus, in their pursuit of self promotion. We have seen this time and again in the corporate world and with politicians - they will put piranahs to shame.

That is unlikely as USD is involved in this from head to tail.

I saw perfect synergy between USD and PB so nothing of that kind could be inferred.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 12 Jan 2014 22:48

As per smuggling of pearls that may not stick (IANAL) as diplomats can whatever they want in diplomatic pouches. My understanding is that they can get even a "peanut". Possibly this Alicia creature might have paid for the pearls and got them through her friend who was carrying a diplo pouch. In that case she would been afoul of some US law or other.

I think the tax evasion is a problem looks like diplo immunity protects her.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 12 Jan 2014 22:56

MatrimC ji,
The problem here is perception(enforced by the Western MSM and lapped up by local paid media) - that Massa Diplomutts can do no wrong and that they are lily white at heart and nethers (and hence don't merit cavity search like the SDRE DK).
Case in point how many Indian media outlets tom tommed the adarsh society plot to elder Khobragade ? to build the perception that she is "tainted" and deserves the treatment meted to her by the ohh soo pure at heart Unkil Massa bleeding at the "injustice" meted to the "defenceless" maid Sangeeta Richards.
Posts were made in this thread too for that matter.

Now just the dog post by none other than the one who precipitated this incident in Massa embassy of Dilli ( TFTA Alicia May and TFTA Wayne May) will suffice to break this perception among India's aspirational young and probably few of the Forrin "liberals" types too.

sivab · Post by **sivab** » 12 Jan 2014 23:03

matrimc wrote:As per smuggling of pearls that may not stick (IANAL) as diplomats can whatever they want in diplomatic pouches. My understanding is that they can get even a "peanut". Possibly this Alicia creature might have paid for the pearls and got them through her friend who was carrying a diplo pouch. In that case she would been afoul of some US law or other.

I think the tax evasion is a problem looks like diplo immunity protects her.

She who claims diplomatic immunity, herself wrote that burger was smuggled and you are arguing otherwise?

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 12 Jan 2014 23:19

Bade wrote:Why couldn't she bring her kids with her to India ? They are young and can adjust to life in India. Does the fact that they are US citizens come in the way of her taking them to India, under the circumstances she had to leave the US. In any case, her husband can accompany them and bring them to India. So it all depends on him. He has not spoken much at all to the media, even in the US. I am a little surprised at his silence too.

I remember reading somewhere where DK's father said that for now, they didn't bring the kids to India so that their school year is not interrupted. And that after that, they will consider bringing them to India depending on how things go.

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 12 Jan 2014 23:29

matrimc wrote:
TSJones wrote:Alicia's job was to make friends with India. I don't think she can do that anymore. She is gone as soon as it can be done practically.
Was she community liaison for Americans in India? Then her job description would be different.

It probably doesn't make any difference. She's gone regardless. Just a matter of when they think they can get her safely out. Probably the embassy is on lock down status for the American women. Since the lacksidaisical security fiasco at Benghazi, they're over reacting the way government agencies usually do. They're afraid of some nut case out on the street looking for revenge after rape video was put out on the internet. Anyway they're not going to take any chances and have to answer to congressional committees for having bad security and getting one the embassy's American women attacked. And with the poison found on social media, they are shook up. Count on it. It won't save the Mays from internal reprocussions back in HQ though.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 12 Jan 2014 23:31

Looks like some US citizen here probably reported the facebook posts to the US authorities. I doubt US drones keeping tab on BR! Probably someone realized the harm it could cause and alerted the folks.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 12 Jan 2014 23:36

Now just the dog post by none other than the one who precipitated this incident in Massa embassy of Dilli ( TFTA Alicia May and TFTA Wayne May) will suffice to break this perception among India's aspirational young and probably few of the Forrin "liberals" types too.

I guess that 'forrin liberal' type is me. Sigh....do we want the Indo-US relationship held hostage to some bimbo's face book page? Time to move on. There is a lot of potential here, let us not a common slight end it.

It is common courtesy and culture in India that the poor are never derided for the effects of their poverty. I am sure most Americans adhere to that principle regardless of how emaciated the poor are.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 12 Jan 2014 23:37

Thanx anmol,

I was waiting for that!

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 12 Jan 2014 23:41

putnanja wrote:Looks like some US citizen here probably reported the facebook posts to the US authorities. I doubt US drones keeping tab on BR! Probably someone realized the harm it could cause and alerted the folks.

Nah, they're watching. You got their attention. If nothing else for possible threat status.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 12 Jan 2014 23:46

Another one of those Gadanken experiments. Past few years US and India have been blowing worthless hot air about strategic relations. During that time, if say some friend of Alicia had asked her this. You rightly point out what a bunch of inferior retards these "vegetarians" are, and our government says they are a strategic partner. What do you think Alicia's reaction would have been? Assuming of course, she has enough brains to understand what a strategic partner means?

The point I am making is that there has to be some meeting of minds, some mutual respect between peoples of 2 countries for even a modicum of strategic partnership. This whole talk of strategic partnership had no basis in reality.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 12 Jan 2014 23:50

sanjaykumar,

Even the "liberal" Tom Friedman of NYT always condescendingly refers to Indians' emaciated looks. So its not just one bimbo, mention India, and "caste", "cow worship", "poverty", the Alicia type stereotypes are embedded in the American pysche. And this is astonishing to me given that there are so many Indians in US and in all walks of life.

Hitesh · Post by **Hitesh** » 12 Jan 2014 23:51

Sanjay wrote:He had full immunity. Even if he murdered the PM you can't touch him without their waiving it.

You better hope that US waive the immunity or it is tantamount to declaring war on India. Do you seriously think that US would let go of an Indian diplomat/ambassador if he were to do the same to a US president?

US would never release him. They would lock him up and do a cavity search in every imaginable way possible.

Besides, DK had immunity and US deliberately chose to ignore it, probably at the behest of Wayne Mays. The more I read about it, the more I am convinced that Wayne Mays is the culprit behind this whole thing. He needs to be seriously punished and GoI missed the boat on that, Vienna conventions be damned since US never ratified it.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 12 Jan 2014 23:53

Shukla sadly, is a full blown leftist, with a pro US tilt. And that interview is just rubbish.. he just bats for the indefensible.

He also has a habit of dubbing anyone who disagrees with his political views a fascist hindu fanatic/hindutva zealot.

Best he stick to purely defense reportage instead of being a political expert on all things.

G Parthasarathy is an incredible speaker.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 12 Jan 2014 23:55

CRams wrote:It just makes blood boil, that with all its moral pontifications which mean nothing byond the surface of the skin, US has destroyed a family. As I mentioned, this is a personal tragedy for DK

And what did you expect. The rules have always been different for the SDRE. One mistake on an INS form and you were summarily rounded up and deported. SDRE families have been ripped apart and hounded for the most banal of violations. This has been going on for decades and now folks are outraged.

DK's mistake was simple. She thought a 'immunity' SDRE would be treated the same as an 'immunity' Teutonic. Fatal error. SDRE don't get to make mistakes in USA. Felony and deportation hovers menacingly. She could have talked to any NRI and they would have advised her to be careful. For gods sake her husband should have advised her to be careful!! Where was he in all this. Eggshells folks eggshells....