Indian IT Industry

[negi]

Contracting scene in India simply does not exist; I mean it is not the same as in the US. The key difference is in the US contractors get billed and paid by the hour, their effort is billed every week on hourly basis . Labour laws in the States make sure that it is the employer which has to be careful about not exploiting or underpaying the employee.

[Vayutuvan]

In India, the market takes care of it. Consultants get paid well (by Indian standards). Indian versions of Preet Bharara, please to excuse only

[Vikas]

Guess Negi is right. Contractual positions don't exist in India except for few pockets.
The contractors are actually on the payroll of a company who pays them regular salary but makes them work for another company and hence are called CSP or contractors.

My company hires atleast 25% of its workforce as contractors but they are not contractors as we understand the term in USA. They are simply employees of X company working on a project for Y company.

[Theo_Fidel]

Actually most contract work in USA has a hard contract amount, sometimes a not to exceed amount. Nothing is ever left open ended. The hourly billing is for temp workers. Which is a complete other classification.

[Sachin]

PS: Had a few rounds with a couple of orgs - and it seems dismal. The scales are also not worth discussion. To answer your question - it appears networking is the ONLY way to get thru to a decent position in a decent organization.

Hmm.. have to agree with you here . I do see openings and apply. But nothing further happens. Now busy activating the "sleeper cells" in my network.

[Yogesh]

^^ Atleast in semiconductor cos, 1.5-2X would be the median( for most MNC "product" co) and there is the recent strange phenomenon of few semico service cos paying 2.5-3X ( which is more than the salary of employees of the product co where they are being sent as contractors)

Should 1 be worried if in that range, given my orgy jhust announced stream-lining the resources etc..non-IT field though! sigh lfe is tough

[SRoy]

Guess Negi is right. Contractual positions don't exist in India except for few pockets.
The contractors are actually on the payroll of a company who pays them regular salary but makes them work for another company and hence are called CSP or contractors.

My company hires atleast 25% of its workforce as contractors but they are not contractors as we understand the term in USA. They are simply employees of X company working on a project for Y company.

Not exactly. In India also there are companies that employs people on contract.
In situation where there is a sudden resource demand (too many projects at the same time) that may not fit into mid to long term staffing plan such a approach is common.
This is my company atleast. We always have a 15%-20%, contractual strength. We never had lay offs. During difficult times the contracts were simply allowed to lapse.

[Vikas]

But SRoy, Are these contractors simply hired from some other company like bodies or do you hire independent contractors like in USA ?
Even my company has ~15% of the employees as contractors but they are folks from smaller companies.
Someone like me just wont get a contractual position directly in a company.

[SRoy]

^^
Hired independently direct from market. Cost to company comes cheaper and easier to let go (contracts are renewed or not renewed based half yearly business forecasts).

[Sachin]

Hired independently direct from market. Cost to company comes cheaper and easier to let go (contracts are renewed or not renewed based half yearly business forecasts).

But this I think is not a regular trend. I know a few of my ex-colleagues who work as purely independent contractors (no contracting agency). But they had niche skills (pure electronics engineering, VLSI designing etc.). And for these folks it an agreement between them and the company. Some of them even negotiated for around 25-30 hours of work/week .

[SRoy]

Hired independently direct from market. Cost to company comes cheaper and easier to let go (contracts are renewed or not renewed based half yearly business forecasts).

But this I think is not a regular trend. I know a few of my ex-colleagues who work as purely independent contractors (no contracting agency). But they had niche skills (pure electronics engineering, VLSI designing etc.). And for these folks it an agreement between them and the company. Some of them even negotiated for around 25-30 hours of work/week .

Same thing in our company as you wrote (bolded part).
Except that in our place the contractors have to follow similar working regulations as permanent staff. So they have to put in regular hours as us.
Off topic, we are moving off from 9-5 working rules. . Working from home introduced, with targeted work package deadlines being the only metric monitored.

[Sachin]

Working from home introduced, with targeted work package deadlines being the only metric monitored.

Hmm. I see that as a step in right direction. As people are made accountable for well defined metrics, and not on irrelevant things as time spent at office, or late night mail checks to show commitments to the company etc. Would really love to work for such an organisation.

[Prem]

South Korea keen on working with Indian IT firms in other markets

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/ind ... 586293.ece

South Korean President Park Geun-hye today expressed keenness in Indian and Korean IT firms working together in other markets of the world.Park, who is on a four-day state visit to India, while gracing the India-Korea IT Expo 2014 here, asked the IT-ITeS industry body NASSCOM President R Chandrashekhar about the secret behind the success of India’s IT industry.Chandrashekhar told Park that Indian IT companies try to understand the client’s needs and then develop processes, products and services to give them the right solutions.Park wanted to know if South Korean and Indian IT companies could work jointly to address third markets.On the future of the Indian IT industry, Chandrashekhar told the President that it is in transformation and working towards providing a holistic service environment to the clients.
On opportunities for Indian IT firms to work with South Korean firms, Chandrashekhar told PTI: “There are already some big Korean companies in India. Some have their R&D centres and other offices here. Our aim is to promote the partnership and scale this.”In South Korea, there are many products that are domain specific and India is now embarking on expanding its IT industry’s footprint in other products and services, he added.“This could build up into a good opportunity for Indian IT firms,” he said.India and South Korea, in a move to strengthen bilateral ties, yesterday decided to intensify cooperation in a range of key sectors including trade, investment and defence.Nine pacts covering wide-ranging fields including cy

[kenop]

Can somebody confirm from chaiwala if layoffs/trimming happened in Symantec India recently ?

[Muppalla]

Working from home introduced, with targeted work package deadlines being the only metric monitored.

Hmm. I see that as a step in right direction. As people are made accountable for well defined metrics, and not on irrelevant things as time spent at office, or late night mail checks to show commitments to the company etc. Would really love to work for such an organisation.

good move. Less traffic, saves environment and money too. I work 4 days a week from home but u need to move a lot otherwise you will put on weight.

[svinayak]

http://techcrunch.com/2014/01/18/why-si ... nd-europe/

In talking to many people about my growing realization that the place of my birth simply didn’t matter to most people in the Valley, I began to understand that there is a mental hierarchy of “important places” for people building, investing in and studying tech companies in Silicon Valley. They exist in the following order:

1. Silicon Valley. Practically considered, the opportunity cost of venturing out of the bustling 30-mile radius of Sand Hill Road, whether you are an entrepreneur, investor or academic, is usually just too high.

2. The U.S. East Coast. Yes, stuff is happening in Boston and New York, but not so much that a once-a-month trip can’t cover most of it.

3. China. Massive tech companies do rise in China and go public in the United States, and Chinese investors have gobs of cash to invest in the Valley. There is a constant back and forth between both Pacific coasts. But it’s not just geography, and the historic manufacturing relationship that is stimulating this cozy dynamic. The Valley is looking more and more towards China for the next tech trends and expansion opportunities.

4. The rest of Asia. India’s diaspora links to the U.S. are strong. Southeast Asia’s growth is hard to miss, and there is interesting mobile stuff happening in Korea and Japan.

5. Latin America/South America. Markets in Mexico and Brazil are increasingly ripe for Silicon Valley tech, but the region is still a distant gleam for most companies.

6. Europe. Here is what I mostly hear about Europe: “I took my wife/husband to Paris last year for our anniversary, and we dropped by Rome. Great food, so much history, Europe is wonderful!” For vacation.

[morem]

Dear Gurus ,
what are the prospects like for Indian IT resources in Germany, specifically SAP consultants. I have done some online research but would like to know from Seniors on the forum.
Many thanks

[SRoy]

good move. Less traffic, saves environment and money too. I work 4 days a week from home but u need to move a lot otherwise you will put on weight.

Mine is a 3 days from home and 2 in office roster. Works well. Actually I get time to undertake daily workout which was not possible earlier.
In India this is still a difficult concept, as we discovered.

Most desi folks in IT (even seasoned ones) are not aware of basic tools of the trade. Maybe some are just too lazy and stingy to invest. This include a good PC or laptop, a wired / optical broadband connection, printer, isolated workspace and so forth.

There social issues, if neighbor sees you too often at home, assumes you have been laid off.

[Rishirishi]

Dear Gurus ,
what are the prospects like for Indian IT resources in Germany, specifically SAP consultants. I have done some online research but would like to know from Seniors on the forum.
Many thanks

Am a SAP consultant as well. Our company is outsourcing. So are a lot of the others. Like it or not, the gory days are over and it is becoming something you send to India. Best bet is to join and India company and try to make it in a user company. But you may to "Bangalored".

[sampat]

Am a SAP consultant as well. Our company is outsourcing. So are a lot of the others. Like it or not, the gory days are over and it is becoming something you send to India. Best bet is to join and India company and try to make it in a user company. But you may to "Bangalored".

Which module do you cover? Are you functional or technical consultant. I heard that most of the technical stuff gets bangalored but not on the functional side that require customer interactions. What do you think about SAP HANA and BI in general. Is it also prone to getting bangalored?

[Vikas]

Bhai Log, Any advice on how to land up a job with Chi Chi organizations like Mckinsey or World bank for a IT-VITY consultant. Any guidance will be appreciated.

[Vayutuvan]

World Bank (or the bank as the employees call it) should not be that difficult - but pay may not be that great compared to US/European banks in US.

[negi]

Bhai Log, Any advice on how to land up a job with Chi Chi organizations like Mckinsey or World bank for a IT-VITY consultant. Any guidance will be appreciated.

You basically need to forget whatever you learnt for instance SOA is not service oriented architecture it stands for Strategic opportunity Assessment at least that is what I am told.

[Rishirishi]

Am a SAP consultant as well. Our company is outsourcing. So are a lot of the others. Like it or not, the gory days are over and it is becoming something you send to India. Best bet is to join and India company and try to make it in a user company. But you may to "Bangalored".

Which module do you cover? Are you functional or technical consultant. I heard that most of the technical stuff gets bangalored but not on the functional side that require customer interactions. What do you think about SAP HANA and BI in general. Is it also prone to getting bangalored?

I cover Fi and SD modules. Both technical and functional side can be outsourced. Heck even the accounting is being outsourced. If you are very very good consultant with 10 years of super experiance, you still have a shot in the market.

BI is always interesting, but preferably if you have strong analytical skilles. IT in general is slowly becoming a low end job. Main problem with tech is the learning curve. It takes time to learn but all value is viped out, when the product is outdated.

[Vikas]

World Bank (or the bank as the employees call it) should not be that difficult - but pay may not be that great compared to US/European banks in US.

Lekin How to enter this maze. Any salary would be better than what my MNC pays me in the name of cheap labor (Also called offshore Development centers) and billing rates.

[Vayutuvan]

Visas: I thought you are in US. At one point there were several IITK and IISc school of automation people who initially were with TBL. May be you should network and see if you can pull a contact from the maze. Contacts always work better than going through the ads. Another way is to go through exec search companies/consulting cos. based in US.

[Javee]

And Vikas, be ready to travel One reason I moved to desh is because after I had kids, didn't want to travel anymore. Companies like Booz were pretty active in Linkedin, so see if you have mothers sisters cousin connected to firm's recruiters and forward your resume through them. And btw, for your earlier question, yes, they do lateral hires for technology stream.

[sampat]

True, prior experience has always been a big barrier for new entrants in SAP. I guess, one just have to be persistent and master his domain with an open eye on new technology. Learning never stops in IT.

[Rishirishi]

World Bank (or the bank as the employees call it) should not be that difficult - but pay may not be that great compared to US/European banks in US.

Lekin How to enter this maze. Any salary would be better than what my MNC pays me in the name of cheap labor (Also called offshore Development centers) and billing rates.

[Sachin]

Most desi folks in IT (even seasoned ones) are not aware of basic tools of the trade. Maybe some are just too lazy and stingy to invest. This include a good PC or laptop, a wired / optical broadband connection, printer, isolated workspace and so forth.

Have been telling this before also. Work from Home requires a very high amount of self discipline. Also the organisation's goals should be more on work packages delivered on quality and time. Rather than focusing on mundane activities like time spent in office. I am sure with the kind of work-force which Most Admired Co & Vegetable Oil.Co etc. recruit, Work From Home cannot be enabled there. Their work force has large number of folks out of college who in many cases are never a disciplined lot . I guess every "Mass Recruiting Company" would have this problem. Where as I have seen companies which recruit lesser number of people, after a very focused hiring process is allowing the flexibility to work from home.

I heard that most of the technical stuff gets bangalored but not on the functional side that require customer interactions.

I had been made a Grade SI-like* Project Manager for an SAP engagement. People knew my skill sets were different. The project was one with both functional and technical sides out-sourced. Key challenge was in retaining the functional knowledge. The company who outsourced the work let go many of its contractor functional consultants (folks who have worked on the system for 15-16 years). Our folks (in 7-8 years range) were able to gather knoweldge and run the show for some time. Then as part of cost reduction etc., more junior people were brought in and messed up the situation further. Finally it came to a level where only mundane tasks could be done by the team. The client wanted some visionary functional consultants who could show them a good roadmap. We did not have many .

* Officiating, or just for name sake .

[Sachin]

BTW, a common whine I hear from senior staff these days from the "Mass Recruiting Companies". Total lack of communication skills among the junior folks. People do not know how to articulate well in English and write cohesive e-mails.

[SRoy]

BTW, a common whine I hear from senior staff these days from the "Mass Recruiting Companies". Total lack of communication skills among the junior folks. People do not know how to articulate well in English and write cohesive e-mails.

Very serious problem indeed.
One is rookies from small towns that lack proficiency in spoken and written English. Then there are even relatively senior folks that cannot stick to project org structures and set communication channels. These two groups put a heavy strain on customer facing managers to do damage control.

Then finally, there are good folks that do not think it is worthwhile to gain some presentation skills. They invariably get sidelined as they are not able to grab openings in sales or pre-sales roles.

[Vikas]

But then more often than not, no one teaches the young kids value of good communication nor they are trained for it except for few soft skills training classes and one fine day, they are thrown in the cage with 800lb guerrilla ready to pounce upon them.
Even some of the managers don't have basic skill of presenting via power point or work with micorsoft projects or express themselves in a conference call.
Like one of the senior manager that I know always sneaks into the conference call with customer or offshore team without announcing his name. Worst part is everyone on both side of the pond now knows that he is the one who joins the call without mentioning his name.

[Sachin]

SRoy, VikasRaina,

All valid points. Personally know folks who are good technically but get side-lined (or a wrong image built about them) because they cannot express themselves well. I am personally guilty about such a case . Only when I sat with him and asked him to write an e-mail explaining a problem and solution did I find that, he had difficulties in writing or talking English.

Same goes for PPT etc. At least my organisation runs good programmes for senior folks on these aspects . We have to spend time and efforts to complete this, but it is worth the effort. A basic mistake made is that what ever needs to be said is written in PPT. And like chanting a mantra, this is read out. But many managers skip these kind of training sessions and assumes they are the best. At the moment in the place where I work, we also see a lot of senior folks from other areas (like quality control, process control) etc. getting into team management roles. Most of them end up as disasters.

[Singha]

it is proving to be very difficult to retain young college hires in any product where they can be but cogs in wheel of millions of lines of legacy code and entrusting anything serious needs yrs of exp. prime example is networking industry.
one of my colleagues who is a manager was taking exit interview of such a youngster and he flew into a rage shouting "I hate this field, I hate networking, I dunno how you oldies have survived for so long in such a crappy area". so he had nothing to do but wish him well and let him go.

he joined myntra. another joined flipkart. another two are hatching a joint plan to join some android app startup per my knowledge and another 5 are hatching a joint escape plan because they didnt like being dumped into some automation area and someone forgot where the keys were.

[SRoy]

^^

I don't know whether a kind of generation gap emerging or not. What kind of future does these kids have in tech industry?

Many of us wield PPT presentation alongside mastership of half a million 15 year old C/C++ codebase, with equal ease. These kids will pi$$ their pants. Last month I was out with my CEO on a product selling spree, half the time on phone handling product design meetings with goras in Europe. Nothing to boast about...it just requires a little patience, realistic career goals and passion for technology.

With such a hopeless generation stepping out of colleges, we dinosaurs are secure till the next decade at least.

[KJo]

The baccha gen in India is very soft and has had it easy. India has had an easy time for the last 15 years, money rolling in, jobs aplenty, all you needed to do was breathe and you had a job. You didn't even need to be decent. This was a good time to be in India but those advantages don't last forever. India's advantage has eroded with inflation and higher costs so welcome to the mess that we in the US have been in for the last 15 years thanks to "outsourcing" and "offshoring". Now the misery is global.
The oldies like us have seen difficulty and some have seen good easy times, but the bacchas have only seen easy days when they spent 18 hours in the office off which 10 hours was for coffee, lunch, dinner, flirting with PYTs and then being able to demand 50% raises and bonuses and threaten the firm that they would leave and join elsewhere. Now there is a new reality and so adjustments will have to be made.

[KJo]

But then more often than not, no one teaches the young kids value of good communication nor they are trained for it except for few soft skills training classes and one fine day, they are thrown in the cage with 800lb guerrilla ready to pounce upon them.
Even some of the managers don't have basic skill of presenting via power point or work with micorsoft projects or express themselves in a conference call.
Like one of the senior manager that I know always sneaks into the conference call with customer or offshore team without announcing his name. Worst part is everyone on both side of the pond now knows that he is the one who joins the call without mentioning his name.

Great point!
My kid is 9 and we are grateful that he does well in school but he is in a program called "Magnet" which emphasizes projects and communication skills. He has to do PPTgiri at this age. I don't believe in people who just do pptgiri with a shallow knowledge base, but those who can combine both are very successful. Unfortunately when I was growing up in India communication skills were not emphasized.

[Gus]

With such a hopeless generation stepping out of colleges, we dinosaurs are secure till the next decade at least.

as 'smart' as freshers are (compared to me certainly..) most of them are just impatient and ADHD inflicted it seems. during my r2i, i was trying to develop a group that can start doing some offshore work for us. right now we have a small group that does most of the work and i've been doing this for 8 yrs now with no new people coming in, even though at times we are short and have to contract free lancers through us for implementations that we head.

in a group of 20 people, i could not find one that would sit through a week long class being punctual and attentive and disciplined etc. either they were too 'stupid' and would not follow or too 'smart' that they think they are 'above' this 'boring stuff'.

well..as you say..i can cruise forever in these conditions. anybody whose job involves knowing 3 to 4 different things deeply enough to interconnect knowledge from all this, and can do abstract thinking to model designs and have patience to put your head down and deliver design..and can talk decently with clients about all this - your job is safe..

[KJo]

The problem is there is this get rich quick attitude in India and many people feel that they can reach the top without the hard work and pain. They cannot focus on the task at hand, they are already plotting their next big jump at the next awesome client. I saw this in the "consultants" from TCs who descended en masse at PeechaKaro Co.