India-US Strategic News and Discussion

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 15 Jan 2014 23:18

Better save all the documents on that site and snapshots of the site before the AES website goes down too

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 15 Jan 2014 23:24

putnanja wrote:Better save all the documents on that site and snapshots of the site before the AES website goes down too

Saw the site - nothing worth saving though!
maybe Anmol and others could see if there is something spicy !

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 15 Jan 2014 23:36

he 2013-2014 Board of Governors appreciates your interest and would like to hear from you. General correspondence may be addressed to the Board in care of Ms. Latha Srinivasan ([email protected]) in the Director's office.

NAME
POSITIONS
Patty DHAR
President
Member: Finance Committee, Student Enrichment Committee
Ex-Officio Member - Audit, EFC, PRC, EdSLOC
Paul LOH
Vice President
Member: EdSLOC, EFC
Ex-Officio Member - Student Enrichment Committee
Andrew CHATTERTON
Treasurer
Chair: Finance Committee
Member: EFC
Hugo YON
Secretary
Member: Finance Committee
Savi BHARATHRAM
Member-at-Large
Chair: Student Enrichment Committee
Member: EdSLOC
Ashley CHIAMPO
Member-at-Large
Member: PRC, Personnel
Toby LINDEN
Member-at-Large
Policy Review Committee
Member: Audit Committee
Marja VERLOOP
Ambassador's REP
Member: Audit Committee, PRC
Tedd ARCHABAL
Ambassador's REP
Member: Finance Committee, EFC
Paul CHMELIK
Director
Chair: Personnel Committee, EdSLOC
Ex-Officio Member of all Committees

http://aes.ac.in/boardcontacts.php?teac ... tpage=2201

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 15 Jan 2014 23:50

Aaargh, stop it, this is so compelling, I am not getting much work done.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 15 Jan 2014 23:57

prasannasimha wrote:... Methink's that they will have to finally aquit her and some fall guy will have to take the blame.Bets between Wayne or the Mark guy.PB will have some answering probably later to do and is also an easy fall guy .

First, DK's episode, though triggered the actions in New Delhi, is quite now quite separate from unlawful activities in ND.

As to DK's acquittal, I don't think this is even going to a trial. The judge is going to dismiss the case, as there is NO case. Even PB knows this. If PB did not use Grand Jury to rubber stamp his stunt, I think the Judge would have thrown the case in the pre-trial hearing. PB's despicable stunt to intimidate DK failed miserably and he has himself to blame. I don't think PB will even oppose the motion to dismiss the case now but then again I may misjudge his arrogance, in that case he is going to be a laughing stalk when his own actions come to bite him and he gets disbarred in not to distant future. (I hope that an Indian court will bring a criminal case against him but I am not sure if India will have the will or some deal will be struck to spare him)

The one sided privileges to US diplomats are not going to come back soon, not until reciprocal privileges are given to their counter parts in NY, Chicago, SF etc. US knows this. As this does not put their security in question, (Everyone knows India is not Pakistan and security of any diplomat will not be compromised)

Mays and other will be held accountable, even if they escaped India, for crimes like Visa fraud. They can run or bid their time but they can not hide and justice will eventually reach them.

It will take some time but people in DSS and others who are responsible for DK's mistreatment are not going to escape justice. Both India and US will see to that.

As they say satyamave jayte!

saip · Post by **saip** » 16 Jan 2014 00:00

An Ethical Person

Does the ‘right’ thing, instead of the expedient thing
Practices honesty and truthfulness as a way of life
Strives for integrity

This is what they expect of their students in their school. Obviously school motto must be \

"Do what we say, but don't do what we do"

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 16 Jan 2014 00:07

prasannasimha wrote:he 2013-2014 Board of Governors appreciates your interest and would like to hear from you. General correspondence may be addressed to the Board in care of Ms. Latha Srinivasan ([email protected]) in the Director's office.

Please do write to them, politely.. hopefully their civic duty will compel them to the right thing.

Also if their are documents to prove (or to be investigated) that they did not pay US income taxes, IRS always wants to hear that.

Madhusudhan · Post by **Madhusudhan** » 16 Jan 2014 00:36

Made it to NY Post without as much condescension:

http://nypost.com/2014/01/15/american-d ... ams-india/

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 16 Jan 2014 01:00

TSJones wrote:Who settled the US and for what reasons did they come here? Purely economics like you guys do?

What gave you the idea every single one of "you guys" is here solely for economic reasons? It is part of the deal - if I do a good job I get paid, no? At least the minimum wages. But then if all those employed in textiles industry world over come here, then how can anybody here get a $75 jeans for $25

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 16 Jan 2014 01:10

Lalmohan wrote:...
worrying about US schools in india (that serve this purpose) is not worth the effort
...
tourists - who have chosen to come to another part of the world.

Very good points. +108 Sire.

RCase · Post by **RCase** » 16 Jan 2014 01:19

Madhusudhan wrote:Made it to NY Post without as much condescension:

http://nypost.com/2014/01/15/american-d ... ams-india/

Small mercies. At least posted the exact statements by the Mays, rather than TOILet altering the really offensive one to a milder version.

Regarding the return of a few artifacts ... why the charade at this juncture? I am always amused with similar token gestures by the Chinese in releasing one or two dissidents just when there is some strategic meeting or visit, while continuing with business as usual.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Jan 2014 01:20

prasannasimha wrote:quote : Exclusive: US embassy staff under the lens for multi-year multi-crore tax evasion http://dlvr.it/4jNTQk

This thing is turning out to be more of an embarrassment. They are going to go into the death by a thousand meetings and death by a thousand cuts type of attrition which Babus can be famous for ! I suspect this thing will keep going on till Khobargade is acquitted. Methink's that they will have to finally aquit her and some fall guy will have to take the blame.Bets between Wayne or the Mark guy.PB will have some answering probably later to do and is also an easy fall guy .

I wish posts like this are not made. DK had diplomatic immunity from July 26th 2013 by her accredition to the UN. The arrest was illegal.
As to the India getting rid of non-reciprocal facilities, these should not have been extended in first place. As for MEA finding spine now they should have done this way before.

BTW anyone recall a said this is a complex system at work? Well to bring normalcy(reduce the entorpy) one has to expend massive response to bring the noise down. Thats what India is doing.

PB, Mark, May are all simple linear system responses.
The cavity search by SOP, by special recommendation, and the SD spokesperson behavior brought in high non-linearity.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 16 Jan 2014 01:20

Lilo wrote:
The 350-pound "Vishnu and Lakshmi" sandstone sculpture was pilfered in 2009 from a temple in the Indian state of Rajasthan.

Those two sculptures are exquisite. No wonder people want to "own" them even going to the extent of putting their own liberty at risk.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Jan 2014 01:21

RCase wrote:
Madhusudhan wrote:Made it to NY Post without as much condescension:

http://nypost.com/2014/01/15/american-d ... ams-india/
Small mercies. At least posted the exact statements by the Mays, rather than TOILet altering the really offensive one to a milder version.

Regarding the return of a few artifacts ... why the charade at this juncture? I am always amused with similar token gestures by the Chinese in releasing one or two dissidents just when there is some strategic meeting or visit, while continuing with business as usual.

I hope Chiddananda Rajghata and TOI finds courage to print an addendum when NY Post had the decency to report the full text remarks.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Jan 2014 01:26

matrimc wrote:
Lilo wrote:
{quote}The 350-pound "Vishnu and Lakshmi" sandstone sculpture was pilfered in 2009 from a temple in the Indian state of Rajasthan.
{/quote}

Those two sculptures are exquisite. No wonder people want to "own" them even going to the extent of putting their own liberty at risk.

John Keats wrote "A thing of beauty is joy forever!"

One doesnt have to steal and possess beauty.

Harboring such ideas is hubris.

Stella Karmrisch has written a book "Vishnudharmottara Purana/Sutra' available in google books which describes the sculpting details for Vishnu. The Vishnu pose is tri-bhanga pose or tri-split pose which even now is used by models in Vogue!

In SF Asian Art Museum there are a lot of sculptures donated by Avery Brundage, a wealthy businessman.
I wondered how he managed to acquire such a collection and how was the collection initially brought to his hands.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 16 Jan 2014 01:29

Meanwhile contrary to all the hullagulla, cooler heads are going to prevail..

Sure, ties between world's largest democracies have turned frosty, but there is nothing to gloat in Islamabad or Bejing..

In spite of simmering differences arising from the episode, all gloom and doom type talk was a little premature. Both India and US wants to go ahead with the larger strategic agenda that includes defense and energy cooperation...

Not only the views of some BRF members, ..says so India's ambassador in US and deputy secretary of state William Burns

Devyani Khobragade flap on backburner to resume strategic engagement

WASHINGTON: India and the United States appeared to put the Khobragade issue on the backburner on Tuesday notwithstanding simmering differences arising from the episode, as the two sides pushed ahead with the larger strategic agenda that includes defense and energy cooperation.

US deputy secretary of state William Burns hosted a lunch for Indian ambassador S Jaishankar at the state department at which they "affirmed the importance of US-India strategic partnership", and while agreeing that the past several weeks have been "challenging," the State Department said on Tuesday.

The two officials "affirmed our shared commitment to continue joint US-India work on issues such as clean energy and climate change, defense, economic and trade engagement, counterterrorism, and civil nuclear development," and to that end, they discussed initial preparations for a range of upcoming bilateral meetings and exchanges, a media note from the State Department said.

Reflecting the continued tussle over issues arising from the Khobragade episode, the statement also disclosed the two officials also discussed a variety of issues raised by India's ministry of external affairs via a diplomatic note, "including alleged issues with the American Embassy School." Burns, it said, conveyed that Washington "takes the concerns very seriously and will continue to address them via appropriate diplomatic channels."

The Indian note, which stems from the reciprocity principle that New Delhi has now invoked followed what it believes is an egregious and over-the-top US action on its diplomat Devyani Khobragade in her dispute with her housekeeper, questions various commercial activities undertaken by the US embassy and its officials.

New Delhi has evidently drawn up this list to underscore the fact that there was a relatively relaxed interpretation of rules and laws among diplomatic corps on both sides, and as long as the violations were not flagrant, invoking criminal provisions, as the US did in the case of Khobragade, is inimical to conduct of bilateral ties.

The fundamental proposition India is making is that domestic laws and law-enforcement cannot be allowed to hijack foreign relations — particularly when the offense involved is not serious — by ham-handed and heavy-handed officials pursuing a personal agenda. As far as New Delhi is concerned, there is little evidence that the housekeeper was ill-treated by the diplomat; if anything, the prosecution ignored testimony that showed he was happy and satisfied with her working condition and wage agreement before she developed her plans to emigrate.

The Indian side is vehemently of the belief that criminalizing the charges against Devyani Khobragade, on the basis of dubious allegations that cherry-picked facts, ill-served bilateral ties.

This broadly is the message Ambassador Jaishankar is also seeking to convey in a series of meetings on the Hill, where lawmakers have held their counsel on an issue that inflamed the mood at the lower levels of the executive and law-enforcement side.

Jaishankar met house Speaker John Boehner and Senate Intelligence Committee chair Dianne Feinstein, among others on Tuesday, following up meeting earlier in the weeks with senators Mark Warner and Tim Kaine, and Congressmen Jim McDermott and Eliot Engel.

Meanwhile, Devyani Khobragade's attorney Daniel Arshack asked on the New York court where the case was being heard to dismiss the proceedings against her citing the immunity granted to her. "It is apparent that the immunity which cloaked Dr Khobragade on Dec 12, 2013, should have prevented her arrest, handcuffing, jailing, strip searching and imposition of bail conditions," Arshack wrote to Manhattan federal judge Shira Scheindlin, who has yet to rule.

"Dr Khobragade now formally moves this court to dismiss the instant proceeding, to rescind the conditions of her release and eliminate her bail conditions as she is immune from criminal prosecution in the United States," Arshack said in the filing.

Separately, the two countries also raised the profile of a cooperative story to symbolically convey that things are returning to normal after a month fraught with tension. US authorities on Tuesday returned to the Indian government one of the world's most-wanted stolen pieces of art, a 350-pound "Vishnu and Lakshmi" sandstone sculpture was pilfered in 2009 from a temple in Rajasthan, in a choreographed ceremony at the New York consulate where Khobragade served.

BTW I happened to have interesting talk with our (US) congressman.., (to his credit listened to me for a long time and seem to understand that the lawmakers ought to do some thing to prevent the kind of stunts pulled by some which are not helpful to US)

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 16 Jan 2014 02:01

ramana wrote:Harboring such ideas is hubris

raman garu: Exactly and why I put the word own in quotes.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 16 Jan 2014 02:07

I am still mystified by Ms. Harf's highlighting of "arms control, nonproliferation, ...". Is that all that comes to DoS's mind when they think of talks with India? Very Pavlovian, I would say. Sure, no problem if the US is really interested in Universal Disarmament and limiting illegal proliferation by China. But I suspect the statement points to their need to give lectures to India. Rake this up at a time when we (as in US) are in the wrong is going to make India firm up its position and it is also plain wrong as India's nonproliferation record is very clean.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Jan 2014 02:20

putnanja wrote:VICARIOUS PLEASURES - Watching Uncle Sam being outwitted on his own terrain : K.P. Nayar

...
........ Unfortunately, even as they daily face from the American bureaucracy the kind of treatment that the Indian deputy consul-general in New York faced — albeit in lesser and varying degrees — they are made to suffer in silence more by their own political bosses back at headquarters, who like to be more American than the Americans themselves.
...
......

Our MUTU makes it mainstream!!!! with a variation off course.

He calls it MATA (More American than Americans)

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Jan 2014 02:23

matrimc wrote:AmberG ji: I am still mystified by Ms. Harf's highlighting of "arms control, nonproliferation, ...". Is that all that comes to DoS's mind when they think of talks with India? Very Pavlovian, I would say. Sure, no problem if the US is really interested in Universal Disarmament and limiting illegal proliferation by China. But I suspect the statement points to their need to give lectures to India. Rake this up at a time when we (as in US) are in the wrong is going to make the party turn antagonistic.

Must be a Fraudian slip!!!!

Aside:

Sir Henry Wotten in 17th Century said
"An ambassador is sent abroad to lie for his country!"

Ms Harf believes in lying to the country .....

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Jan 2014 02:25

I googled Rudra Chaudhri. He is a young scholar at King's College London and is one of the new generation of coconuts.

Nandu · Post by **Nandu** » 16 Jan 2014 02:28

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/us-w ... 36231.html
Devyani Khobragade row: US wants restoration of diplomatic privileges

..US embassy has sought a meeting with the MEA officials to seek restoration of airport passes for its diplomats, besides a review of the government directive to shut down American Club.
...
Meanwhile, a different kind of trouble seems to be brewing, with diplomats of other foreign countries in Delhi asking for similar privileges that were once accorded to the US diplomats.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Jan 2014 02:36

The thing to ask when will UK emulate the US gesture and return the stolen Indian artifacts gracing the Windsor castle and other museums?

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 16 Jan 2014 02:38

ramana wrote:The thing to ask when will UK emulate the US gesture and return the stolen Indian artifacts gracing the Windsor castle and other museums?

Only when we ask them and equate it with the Nazi looting of art treasures they so abhor.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 16 Jan 2014 02:39

matrimc wrote:
TSJones wrote:Who settled the US and for what reasons did they come here? Purely economics like you guys do?
What gave you the idea every single one of "you guys" is here solely for economic reasons? It is part of the deal - if I do a good job I get paid, no? At least the minimum wages. But then if all those employed in textiles industry world over come here, then how can anybody here get a $75 jeans for $25

Wonder if TSJ is talking about Native Americans (who have been around in the Americas since pre-history) or his European ancestors. The former were Nomadic tribes in search of a new land and co-existed with each other despite wars, skirmishes etc. A large part of the latter came for purely economic reasons causing chaos and mass murder of Native Americans. A small part of the latter came to the US in order to escape religious bigotry in the UK, and once they were 'here' they became pretty good in the bigotry field as well. They had good women's right too, with hanging witches in Salem and all. And oh... we dont even want to know what the Spanish did.

Compared to all of the tyranny and mass murder that TSJs ancestors brought upon this land, the people who he calls "you guys" are here for the precise reason the "new world" nation of USofA was founded on.... making moolah and we are doing it without disrespecting or murdering others

.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 16 Jan 2014 02:50

matrimc wrote:AmberG ji: I am still mystified by Ms. Harf's highlighting of "arms control, nonproliferation, ...". Is that all that comes to DoS's mind when they think of talks with India? ...

Matrimc ji: Why not address those questions to Ms Harf?

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 16 Jan 2014 02:54

pankajs wrote: ....
The current scenario looks the same. The Americans are all set to be embarrassed as one of their major media flagships—New York Times—is expected to come up with a damning disclosure on the same lines.

I will believe that the New York Times will publish such a disclosure only after they actually publish it.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Jan 2014 02:55

SaiK wrote:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 810571.cms "My daughter refused plea bargaining and refused to pay any fine. This is a common scam in the US where criminal charges are pressed for permanent resident status and money extorted. This is then split between the so-called victim and those who aid them. My daughter refused to pay," said Khobragade.

This is modus operandi of how lawyers sue. The damages are split in a certain ratio.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 16 Jan 2014 02:58

ramana wrote:I googled Rudra Chaudhri. He is a young scholar at King's College London and is one of the new generation of coconuts.

Ramanji - Exactly what is "new generation of coconuts"? Is this what google told you or you just added it depending on your own prejudices and generalization? If it is one of those derogatory terms used, how does it add to to the topic of this current thread?

saip · Post by **saip** » 16 Jan 2014 03:05

ramana wrote:The thing to ask when will UK emulate the US gesture and return the stolen Indian artifacts gracing the Windsor castle and other museums?

Every time that topic comes up, India's friendly neighbors to the west pipe up and say our share, our share! That they mostly neglect if not outright destroy Hindu artifacts in their country does not count.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Jan 2014 03:10

SSridhar, MKB has been pursuing the spy angle for quite a few days. Here is an article dated 30th Decemebr 2013. Unfortunately while whacking trolls we couldnt post it.

http://m.strategic-culture.org/news/201 ... -ties.html

A maid rattles US – India ties
Melkulangara BHADRAKUMAR
30.12.2013

00:00
A first rate diplomatic row has erupted over the heavy-handed arrest and detention of India’s deputy consul-general in New York Devyani Khobragade a fortnight ago by the US authorities. The charge against her is that she willfully committed a visa fraud by submitting a visa application for her domestic help Sangeeta Richard, which allegedly contained false and inaccurate statements.

The Indian diplomat was arrested on a public street in Manhattan, New York, on December 12 morning, held in a cell and was released on bail after executing a bond of quarter of a million dollars and surrendering her diplomatic passport. The case has been slated for hearing in the US court in mid-January.

By Khobragade’s account, «I broke down many times as the indignities of repeated handcuffing, stripping and cavity searches, swabbing, hold up with common criminals and drug addicts were all being imposed upon me despite my incessant assertions of (diplomatic) immunity».

The US lobbyists in the Indian media insist that it is a discord over varying interpretations of diplomatic privileges and immunities under the Vienna Convention. But the shadow play is significant. Many intriguing elements remain unexplained:

- The US authorities kept the actual whereabouts of Richard a closely guarded secret for the past several months.

- The Indians made several demarche over the past six months with the US state department that there is a Delhi High Court injunction seeking Richard’s repatriation to India to stand trial, but they were ignored.

- Finally, in a covert operation, American embassy in Delhi bought the air tickets and spirited away Richard’s family members to the US just prior to the arrest of Khobragade.

- Quite obviously, Richard has become a valuable «asset» for the US.

- The US been aware for years, if not decades, that the domestic staff of Indian diplomats use official passports and are paid wages by Indian norms – in this case, US$ 500 as net monthly income (or savings) plus air passages to New York, home leave fares, comprehensive medical coverage and free housing and lodging in diplomatic premises, all paid for by the Indian government. These norms are well-known to the US embassy and are, actually, far above the quality of life available for tens of millions of Americans, both Blacks and Whites. Nonetheless, a diplomatic row has been precipitated.

- The despicable and barbaric treatment meted out to Khobragade was far out of proportion to the alleged crime she committed.

- Washington even risked bringing into the crosshairs the glaring asymmetry between the seamless diplomatic privileges and immunities accorded to the US consular staff posted in India by its specious plea that Vienna Convention did not provide for immunity for the Indian diplomats posted in the consulate in New York. The Khobragade case is, clearly, a high-stakes game.

From all appearance, the US intelligence was masterminding the case and the State Department played a secondary role as the «front desk». In fact, the Indian Foreign Secretary Sujatha Singh was holding consultations in the state department in Washington when the operation against Khobragade was about to be mounted in Manhattan, but the American side kept her in darkness.

All things put together, therefore, the impression becomes unavoidable that Washington kicked up the nasty diplomatic row to deflect attention from the whereabouts of Richard as such. Indeed, the discourse has instead taken either an intellectual form dwelling on the mystique of the Vienna Convention or other salacious issues such as the lifestyle of Indian diplomats in general, their capacity for humility or «non-feudal» behavior and so on. According to sources, the American embassy in Delhi has been doing terrific media management.

Unsurprisingly, Delhi has focused its efforts in the first instance on getting the US authorities to drop the charges against Khobragade. However, the US will expect a «deal» that involves making the closure of the criminal case against Khobragade conditional on their not having to hand over Richard to Indian custody. The bottom line will be Richard’s «immunity» from interrogation by the Indian security agencies.

Why such paranoia? The reading in Delhi is that Richard colluded with her American handlers to frame the Indian diplomat. Indeed, it doesn’t need much ingenuity to figure out the shadow play of espionage. Edward Snowden’s disclosures revealed that the security of the Indian diplomatic and consular establishments has been comprehensively breached by the US intelligence. The point is, Richard worked as a maid in the Indian compound in New York where the diplomats posted in the consulate and in the permanent mission to the United Nations live.

Delhi traditionally adopted a relaxed attitude toward the American diplomatic establishments. It has now begun talking about reciprocity. Delhi could haul up dozens of American diplomats posted in India for open violation of Indian laws. For example, family members of US diplomats take gainful employment in India without taking permission from the foreign ministry, as they are expected to, and do not even pay income tax. The US embassy and consulates in India employ local staff at wages that are far below the prescribed norms in America.

A denouement to the diplomatic row is inevitable at some point. But the core issue remains, namely, there has been extensive US intelligence penetration of India in the recent years. Alas, a lackadaisical attitude has developed amongst the Indian elites generally over the US’ track record of subverting foreign countries. Even reasonably intelligent people suspend disbelief and indulge in esoteric interpretations of the Vienna Convention and diplomatic immunity to explain away what happened.

However, the good thing is that a maid has rattled the US-India ties. What happened over the past fortnight brought to the surface the state of play in the US-Indian relationship, although rhetorically it has been hailed as the «defining partnership of the 21 st century».

The neocon rhetoric is wearing thin. In sum, India’s reluctance to be party to the US’ rebalance strategy in Asia irks Washington and the Indian market failed to generate massive business opportunities for US companies, belying the hopes in Washington. In turn, India feels frustrated that the high hopes raised by the 2008 US-India nuclear deal have petered out.

However, nothing much will really change in the alchemy of the US-Indian relationship. No matter the rhetoric, it has been a transactional relationship where both sides did cherry-picking. Ironically, amidst the current diplomatic row, India and the US signed in Delhi on Friday yet another mega defence deal for supply of six more C-130J «Super Hercules» aircraft.

Delhi knows the Americans will make a few hundred million dollars worth profit out of this $1.01 billion deal, but then, India apparently needs this awesome product for the modernization of its armed forces and is willing to pay the asking price.

Equally, the Americans are eagerly awaiting the Indian orders for M-177 ultra-light howitzers, Apache attack helicopters, Chinook heavy-life helicopters and P8I maritime patrol planes – all worth another cool $4.3 billion. These are deals stuck outside the ambit of open global tenders or competitive bidding and are worth their weight in gold.

Suffice to say, the US will be anxious to get over the hump. For the Indian elites, too, life without America is unthinkable. A columnist of Times of India newspaper wrote yesterday that the Indian expatriate community in America is mighty upset with Khobragade. Indeed, that is entirely plausible. The «NRIs» in North America (Non-Resident Indians) are largely drawn from the upper castes of Hindu society and have extensive social kinships with the elites in Delhi. (Khobragade is a ‘Dalit’ woman.)

Besides, the US also effectively leverages the so-called CEOs Forum, which comprises powerful figures in the Indian corporate industry who are stakeholders in the US-Indian partnership.

The Richard file is the third glaring instance that came to light in the recent years regarding robust American espionage activities in India. The previous two have been shoved under the carpet with delectable ease, thanks to political interference. The Richard file was receiving the attention of the Indian counter-intelligence as far back as Prime Minister Manmohan Singh’s visit to New York in September. Evidently, no one in the Indian bureaucracy showed the gumption to upset the apple cart of the US-Indian defining partnership of the 21st century.

I guess in MKB's world view BRF is a daleet forum for having strenously supported Devyani Khobragade!!!!

All generalizations are general including this one.

I found the smug acknowledgement of the cavity search to be troubling for it said "What you gonna do about it? We violated the Vienna Conventions, We did custody rape of your diplomat all lawfully! We even have US supre Court judgement allowing that. We used all Indian Americans down the chain from Neha Biswal to Preet Bharara in executing this."

Yes AmberG I added the word. In my "Third World Cultures" text book in college it describes brown people who act like they are white.

Its a term from US College level social science books.

Not street language.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 16 Jan 2014 03:44

saip wrote:
ramana wrote:The thing to ask when will UK emulate the US gesture and return the stolen Indian artifacts gracing the Windsor castle and other museums?
Every time that topic comes up, India's friendly neighbors to the west pipe up and say our share, our share! That they mostly neglect if not outright destroy Hindu artifacts in their country does not count.

<OT>
On the sculptures : was on a visit to Amaravati (in Guntur AP) some years back - there in a small 2 hall museum were Buddhist artefacts (especially friezes) on display - but all of them had pale greenish hue to them- didn't know much then - so asked the local curator (who till then was explaining to us with passion about the history and significance of the scupltures) and he stops and says with a hint of sadness that they are just molded replicas and the originals are in the British museum !!

Talking up further( the guy was in his 60s ) came to know that he has a PhD in history from Andhra Univ (from the period when history there was taught in Telugu) and a retiree from the archeological dept now working as a curator. Really inspirational and dedicated person, while signing off in the book and leaving remember the knot in the stomach.
</OT>

The originals are here
http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/c ... mages=true

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 16 Jan 2014 03:50

FYI: Ramana ji - The term you used (coconut), as we both know, is considered racial slur per common use, for example here:
list of ethnic slurs

I do hope you, specially senior members of brf read the following:

My point was, brf has done an excellent job of bringing out many important issues, including exposing racist FB posts (thanks Anmol). This has brought brf quite a bit of visibility. For serious lurkers seeing that racial slurs are used here quite casually even from senior members is not helpful. While we take offence to FB type posts and then go ahead use racial slurs quite often and quite casually, can easily be called hypocrisy.

No I am not exaggerating. Quite a few number of posts are denigrating to PIO's, to Americans with Indian sounding names (dismissed as "two bit this and that", "uncle tom", repeatedly), or even GOI officials whose view point differ just a slightly from us. This is quite counter-productive.

It is one thing to criticize PB and similar actions but it makes no sense to have a free season to attack everyone whose views differ even so slightly. And too many posts, at least from my point of view, have stepped over the limit from various posters in this thread.

I understand I belong to a very small minority view here and I have no intention of dueling moderators here so this will be my first and last post in this thread commenting on this issue.

Let us get back to business and let brf rise to its true potential.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Jan 2014 04:06

AmberG, I did not know its a racial slur. A racial slur is one when one person of one race insults another person of different race using racial terms.
Used it as social descriptor as I explained.

ramana

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Jan 2014 04:37

I was visiting Bharat Karnad's blog and found he has written quite bit on the DK episode.

http://bharatkarnad.com/2013/12/27/brin ... ts-senses/

Bring Washington to Its Senses
Posted on December 27, 2013 by Bharat Karnad

One wishes that in matters of terrorist strikes and diplomatic provocations of the kind that the Devyani Khobragade affair represents, the Indian government had the wit and long discovered the merit of reacting instantly and in tit-for-tat manner. Thus, the 26/11 and, earlier the attack on Parliament, should have been answered within 20 minutes of the onset of the attacks with Indian Air Force sorties out of Udhampur to decimate Lashkar-e-Taiba training sites, concentration areas, and supply depots in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir, the co-ordinates for which targets are readily available. And once the atrocious treatment of the Indian deputy consul general (DCG) at the hands of the US Marshals became known, an immediate counter ought to have been the public arrest of one of the American DCGs posted in Mumbai, Chennai, Hyderabad, and Kolkata and a proper “cavity search” by rough-hewn local cops. This option is unavailable to India now as it will appear calculated, not reflexive.

Instead, in each instance New Delhi’s seemingly incurable habit of inaction kicked in. 26/11 was responded to with mere threats, the attack on Parliament by time-consuming “mobilisation for general war” that achieved nothing, and the outrage against the Indian DCG by tarrying, with the urgency and value of immediate like-action being lost as the external affairs minister Salman Khurshid sought “dialogue” with Washington. Procrastination reduced India’s honour to a trifle-able commodity and the principle of parity of treatment of diplomats a joke.

The more the situation unfolded the clearer it became that this was a larger drama contrived between the self-promoting and ambitious Preet Bharara, the ex-Chandigarh NRI and US attorney for Manhattan (2nd District), and the Bureau for Diplomatic Security (BDS) within the US state department responsible for the security of foreign diplomats displaying sheer incompetence or, alternatively, seeking to stir up momentary excitement. Bharara knew perfectly well how this action would burnish his reputation in US circles and play out in India. The BDS apparently deliberately ignored the informal understanding Washington has with a bunch of European and Third World nations, including India, regarding domestic help brought into the US by diplomats on A-3 or G-5 visas who earn wages that are sub-par only by the US standard. This year, some 2,200 such visas were issued by the US state department. But it was Bharara’s call to home in only on Khobragade that BDS acquiesced in.

True to its nature, the slack-willed Manmohan Singh government stuck to its by now well-known script by doing little beyond ending the system of unilateral benefits the US embassy and consulates and US-origin staff have enjoyed from the ’60s onwards their Indian counterparts stationed in America can only dream of. Absent a reciprocal agreement relating to terms and conditions of work, and the slate of rights, privileges, exemptions, and immunities the diplomats of the two nations will henceforth enjoy, Washington should be warned that the US diplomats and US-origin consular staff, who are paid a handsome sum as “hardship-posting” allowance in India, will start earning it. Absolute parity of treatment down to the minutest detail will obtain decorum and balance so far missing in the bilateral relations.

Sadly, India subsided in the face of US secretary of state John Kerry’s merely expressing “regrets” and undersecretary Wendy Sherman “remorse” which, considering the perverse behaviour of the US Marshals against Khobragade, amounted to salting the wound. New Delhi is even wavering in its demand for an unambiguous apology combined with closure of the case against the DCG in New York—the minimum needed in the circumstances. How the US government manages that is its business. New Delhi need only insist it will be satisfied with nothing less.

This disruptive episode in India-US relations points to two very dissimilar trends—one regarding the conduct of Indian foreign policy, the other concerning subterranean forces busily at work to undermine India strategically, with the former assisting the latter. The fact is harsh actions at the ground or tactical level are in no way antithetical to strategically burgeoning bilateral ties as long as the two streams are not mixed up. Practising an almost amateurish brand of diplomacy, New Delhi seems unable to pull it off. The Indian government expects that mutually beneficial ties must result in benignity all-round and that, as in this case, a friendly US had no business dealing in an unfriendly manner with an Indian envoy. This is to ignore the bureaucratic politics constantly buffeting policies in large countries.
{Complexity theory argument}

In Washington, there is a powerful lobby within the state department that is unconvinced that getting close to India will benefit the US much. An equally strong lobby in the US department of defence, motivated by emerging Asian geopolitics, a declining military budget and capacity for projecting power, is persuaded that without India drawing China’s attention away from the East Sea and the western Pacific, the US may have its hands fuller than it would wish. The reason for the outrage Khobragade experienced—attributed by some to the Obama administration’s supposedly growing “indifference” to India—doesn’t make sense, because from the US perspective too much is at stake for the “strategic partnership” to be so casually imperiled, particularly as strong Indo-US security links are deemed prudent and necessary by both countries.

What then is the best riposte, albeit belated, to the evidence of an unacceptable US attitude? India has just the leverage—an analog of the A-3 visa conundrum faced by the ministry of external affairs when posting diplomats to the US, where hiring native domestic help is unaffordable but taking Indian servants along risks Indian diplomats to arbitrary invocation by the US authorities of legally-enforceable standards of minimum wage. It can require that the large horde of Indians employed by the US embassy and consulates be paid salaries at the US-level, which will raise the wage-bill manifold. And, besides imposing curbs on US diplomats, several multi-billion dollar arms deals in the pipeline should be frozen. It will quickly bring Washington to its senses.

[Published in New Indian Express,27th December 2013 at http://www.newindianexpress.com/opinion ... 966731.ece

Apologise if already covered during the holiday break.

I wonder what changed during the break that India did not insist on the minimum demands? Maybe MEA suddenly realized the stakes and insisted on what was necessary ie getting DK out of US.

And the other options are kept to see how things play out.

So far three paths for DK's arrest and humilation:
1) Mays used the SD system and did it on their own as Orientalist burden. Sending maid to DK and all the way to the USMS cavity search. Plausible but not probable. Even one SD higher up could have put foot down and all things would fall down.
2) The whole SD aligned and decided to teach IFS cadre a lesson and instructed Mays' to do the needful. Could be.
3) MKB is correct and there is a spy angle to all this. Could be.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 16 Jan 2014 04:39

putnanja wrote:VICARIOUS PLEASURES - Watching Uncle Sam being outwitted on his own terrain : K.P. Nayar

From this article...

When Bill Clinton was going to India in 2000, the first American presidential visit in 22 years, T.P. Sreenivasan, then deputy chief of mission at the embassy in Washington, received a phone-call from a senior US official a few days before Clinton’s travel. The official matter-of-factly informed the senior diplomat that US marines, who were part of the president’s security detail, would be leaving for New Delhi that afternoon. In the course of the conversation, Sreenivasan asked as a gesture of courtesy if everything went well with the visa procurement for the marines and if he could help with any arrangements. Sreenivasan could not believe his ears when the US official said the marines had made no effort to get visas. “Our marines do not travel with passports. They do not need visas,” was the reply. Sreenivasan curtly told the American that if the marines did not have visas they do not go to India. Period.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 16 Jan 2014 04:40

Amber G. wrote: Matrimc ji: Why not address those questions to Ms Harf?

Amber G. ji: Not addressed to you sire, nor am I expecting you to answer/defend Ms. Harf. Sorry to have addressed it to you - editing out your name forthwith.

---

Mine is a general observation that Ms. Harf's answer appeared to me to be a boilerplate to be trotted out if one cannot think of something for the moment. Unless the US changes the mindset that India can be a partner - may be a junior partner for now become a peer in a few years - in trade/business/S&T/R&D rather than simply an "yes vote" in multilateral organizations on arms control/non-proliferation, the relationship will stagnate and will be transaction based, if that.

I am all for Womens' choice/rights but at the same time I also want the US to have better ties with India than any other country in South Asia. I am realistic enough not to ask that India is put ahead of China (at least for now).

Again I reiterate that we PIOs would like nay need the relations between US and India be very good.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 16 Jan 2014 05:12

Re. Attorney Preet Bharara, how much leeway does he have in not appealing if the judge dismisses the case? or is he legally bound by the DoJ rules to automatically file an appeal?

I am not enthusiastic to support a plan of action that sacrifices him at the altar of better Indo-US relations for no fault of his other than his doing his job. That would be tantamount to declaring open season on SDREs PIOs who in the course of doing their job have to go against powerful political/economic lobbies and precedent setting in that they are soft-targets and hence can be scape-goated with impunity by the powers that be.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Jan 2014 05:26

As I said before PB was used. And people would recognize that.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 16 Jan 2014 05:29

Wonder if TSJ is talking about Native Americans (who have been around in the Americas since pre-history) or his European ancestors. The former were Nomadic tribes in search of a new land and co-existed with each other despite wars, skirmishes etc. A large part of the latter came for purely economic reasons causing chaos and mass murder of Native Americans. A small part of the latter came to the US in order to escape religious bigotry in the UK, and once they were 'here' they became pretty good in the bigotry field as well. They had good women's right too, with hanging witches in Salem and all. And oh... we dont even want to know what the Spanish did.

Compared to all of the tyranny and mass murder that TSJs ancestors brought upon this land, the people who he calls "you guys" are here for the precise reason the "new world" nation of USofA was founded on.... making moolah and we are doing it without disrespecting or murdering others .

This displays the lack of political conviction of Indians. The Gita (I know heathenery) has a remarkable passage involving Arjuna, where he prefers to renounce the world than to feast and taste the blood of the slain in the victuals. Just because latter day immigrants came to these shores after the violence had abated, in no way exculpates them.

Indians need to follow the Jews in participating vigorously in American/Canadian/British public life. Much as the Jewish contribution to the civil rights movement.