India-US Strategic News and Discussion

[putnanja]

Spouses of US diplomats come under govt scanner

...

While India has already ruled out restoring what it describes as non-reciprocal privileges and facilitations -- like special airport access and blanket immunity -- it is now insisting on getting details about spouses of US officials teaching in American schools in Delhi, Mumbai and Chennai. The US has not yet provided these details or those related to the pay scale of ‎Indian staff working with the US embassy and
...
India has also accused the embassy in New Delhi of long having hosted commercial facilities within its compound, including sale and service establishments, that are open not only to non-US diplomats but also to non-diplomatic staff and outsiders. India last week ordered that these facilities be shut down by January 16. Sources, however, clarified that these services have not been shut for US diplomats and that they are free to avail these even now. "There is no restriction on US diplomats. Only the commercial activities by American Community Support Association (ACSA) have been stopped,'' said a source.
...
...
India has also made it clear that there is no question of restoring the special airport access facility for the US ambassador and other diplomats till the time the same is extended to Indian diplomats in the US. The ambassador, Nancy Powell, who had a special pass with a photo identity card, cancelled her trip to Nepal last month. The US embassy said this was because she had to look after pressing issues here. She travelled to Hyderabad after that but without the special airport pass.

"There was no retaliation by India but just a review of these privileges to bring them strictly in line with reciprocity, the cornerstone of diplomatic ties,'' said an official.

[putnanja]

http://www.frontline.in/world-affairs/diplomatic-storm/article5538613.ece?homepage=true

...
Khurshid has claimed that the spat did not occur “out of the blue” and there is a “history” behind it. But he has refused to divulge any reasons for his assertions. There is some speculation that the U.S. was upset with India’s refusal to goad the government of Sheikh Hasina in Bangladesh to rescind its ban on the Jamaat-e-Islami and put in place a caretaker government that would supervise the general elections to be held in early 2014. There were also reports that the Obama administration was not too happy with New Delhi’s tacit support to Afghanistan President Hamid Karzai’s refusal to sign the bilateral security pact, which is essential for the U.S. troops to stay in Afghanistan beyond 2014.
...
...
All the same, India has not been as vociferous against the Obama administration on more important issues such as the spying by the National Security Agency (NSA) on Indian missions and its use of New Delhi as a major hub for spying on China. Latin American and European governments have taken much stronger positions. Brazil cancelled a multibillion-dollar defence deal with the U.S. after the information was revealed that the U.S. was listening in on the private phone calls of the Brazilian President. Indian diplomats have admitted that the bugging by the NSA has caused “extensive damage” to the conduct of the country’s foreign policy. When Edward Snowden first revealed that India was among the key targets of the NSA, Khurshid had tried to play down the issue by claiming that only metadata was targeted and not individuals. He even credited U.S. intelligence agencies with providing information that helped the Indian government thwart domestic terrorist plots.

India, unlike Brazil, has decided to continue doing business as usual with the U.S. Even as the impasse over the diplomat’s case remains unsolved, India has signed another contract worth over a $1 billion for the purchase of six additional Super Hercules Transport planes from the U.S. In the last decade, the U.S. has already bagged defence deals worth more than $10 billion. India is in advanced stage of talks with the U.S. to buy another $4 billion worth of American defence hardware. A preliminary agreement has been signed for the supply of American nuclear reactors for nuclear plants in India. That deal alone would be worth more than $14 billion. India’s special relationship with the U.S. continues, notwithstanding the Devyani Khobragade affair

[Amber G.]

Re. Attorney Preet Bharara, how much leeway does he have in not appealing if the judge dismisses the case? or is he legally bound by the DoJ rules to automatically file an appeal?

ZERO. In USA, generally prosecutors can't appeal. Theoretically even if case proceed and DK gets an acquittal, it is the end. (Only appeal can come from defendant in a criminal case). In fact, after acquittal, DK cannot be even charged or tried again, for any additional related charge ... even if new evidence comes out.

[arshyam]

In fact, after acquittal, DK cannot be even charged or tried again, for any additional related charge ... even if new evidence comes out.

Indeed, this is the so-called 'double jeopardy' clause. I think this is one of the reasons prosecutors push hard for at least a plea bargain, and avoid an acquittal.

[Vayutuvan]

AmberG ji: Thanks.

[saip]

In fact, after acquittal, DK cannot be even charged or tried again, for any additional related charge ... even if new evidence comes out.

Indeed, this is the so-called 'double jeopardy' clause. I think this is one of the reasons prosecutors push hard for at least a plea bargain, and avoid an acquittal.

But she may be prosecuted by the NY state, AFAIK.

[Madhusudhan]

Can also be charged in a civil trial

[saip]

You mean she can be sued by the maid for back wages and breach of contract.

[arshyam]

Spouses of US diplomats come under govt scanner

...

While India has already ruled out restoring what it describes as non-reciprocal privileges and facilitations -- like special airport access and blanket immunity -- it is now insisting on getting details about spouses of US officials teaching in American schools in Delhi, Mumbai and Chennai. The US has not yet provided these details or those related to the pay scale of ‎Indian staff working with the US embassy and
...

Some whines from comments:

All these attitude and action will never help to improve situation and will still make things worse. The worst part is these people who are involved will not be affected but it will be those million of others will be stake holders too. I don't understand why so much of special privilege and hype to this lady. Looks she already have lots of illegal assets in India. It's so easy to break a glass than making.

This dude's got it all upside down - it's not about a single person. If reciprocity is not established even now, it will be millions of Indians abroad who would be affected. These are exactly the kind of arguments I have been trying to counter with my friends, and it is real hard going.

Will India have the courage to arrest a USA diplomat who has clearly violated an Indian law? If they do, then only this confrontational approach would have a benefit, otherwise, India is just placating to Hindu Nationalists and nothing would change. USA fully understands this grand standing and will give India space as parents usually do to their children.

Another avid BBC reader, no doubt. What's religion got to do with nationalism? Does one have to be a <insert religion> to be a nationalist?

I don't intend to turn our board into ToI's comments forum, but wanted to bring up what some of the 'digiterati' in India continue to think, even after so many 'nationalistic' articles in the media (forget critical thinking). This is the real problem, and the SD understands it - drag out the issue long enough, most Indians will forget and drown out future action under such whines, media will lose interest, and nothing will change. Only BR folks will discuss this in any length.

[arshyam]

But she may be prosecuted by the NY state, AFAIK.

Possible, my legal knowledge is restricted to Wiki and Grisham!

[ramana]

Maybe Ms. Harf should discuss the contents of this article on US role in proliferation to Md East?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/j ... ar-arsenal

[TKiran]

The outrage is multiplied by 'Repeated strip searches on DK. As PB has mentioned, SOP might have been followed. But following SOP multiple times would have shocked MEA, who are thick skinned . At least 3 or 4 times, and iwas self-sensored by them. There has to be some other angle to the whole episode as mentioned by Cursed, MKB. The spy angle is more probable.

[RCase]

But she may be prosecuted by the NY state, AFAIK.

Possible, my legal knowledge is restricted to Wiki and Grisham!

(I am not a lawyer). I don't think so. She has/had the full cloak of diplomatic immunity and is outside the purview of the US justice system. No jurisdiction.

[member_28108]

The issue is not one of Khobargade's innocence or not- it is one of "Please dont repeat this again".Also with the US saying that we need all maids registered etc - they are welcome to make that rule but don't try to target the remaining diplomats.If you do so we have "options" too."Subtle" mindgames by both sides with everyone not saying there is a large elephant in the corner but telling it has legs, trunk etc etc

[SSridhar]

Estrangement and Engagement - Jayant Prasad, The Hindu

The pendulum between the two democracies is still swinging between ‘estrangement’ and ‘engagement’. The unfettering of India’s economy gave the relationship its uplift. Its current deceleration is a dampener. Indeed, President Obama seems to have taken a step backward. He shows personal regard for Dr. Manmohan Singh, but not enough practical commitment. The fundamental lack of resolve to address specific issues is eroding public goodwill on both sides. Perhaps the most we can hope for at this juncture is that the relationship does not become worse.

(The writer has served as India’s Ambassador to Afghanistan, Algeria, Nepal and the UN Conference on Disarmament)

[vasu raya]

if SR's file was taken up by counter intel as far back as MMS's September visit, why is that they couldn't put the rest of the family under surveillance? if inspite of that they escaped on T visas, it doesn't reflect well on the counter intel, DK's dad was alerting the authorities of such a possbility, not to mention the Delhi Police, who probably got taken for a ride since May, the anti terrorism liasion officer misused his say with them. These details need to come out.

Also, if the Ford foundaton is behind the accusations on the Judges, the top echelon of the Indian Judiciary is being targeted, again Modi could find himself in Morsi's situation. Then if DK's father is floating a political party, a compromised DK settled in US would have been an even more useful asset, it will be similar to the way we are having misgivings on AAP's funding. So, I don't think they were oblivious to DK's dalit status

On the technology bit of embedding miniature transmitters in usb drives, we know that bluetooth dongles smaller than a dime can be linked to personal cell phones and transmit on the cellular data networks, then there is also the danger of EMP to sensitive facilities anyways which means they would have to electronically shield from outside interference, same can be done from inside and no cell phones should work.

[vic]

Any school in Delhi can only charge fees as prescribed under Delhi Laws and admission policy also has to confirm to such rules. So US embassy is flouting the rules and law for school, fees, admission, income tax, work permit etc.

Regarding Income Tax not only Employees are required to pay Income tax, the school was required to deduct TDS and deposit it. I think the penalties for voilation of income tax nips 300% and for voilation of TDS 1000% along with 7 years imprisonment.

Penalty for voilation of FEMA would also be 300%.

What about paying correct electricity bills, correct LPG bills and NDMC Municipal tax for commercial activities? All would fall under mis declaration, fraud, evasion entailing civil penalties and criminal prosecution?

Illegal blocking of Delhi major road by bribing Delhi Police is also serious criminal offense.

[vic]

if SR's file was taken up by counter intel as far back as MMS's September visit, why is that they couldn't put the rest of the family under surveillance? if inspite of that they escaped on T visas, it doesn't reflect well on the counter intel, DK's dad was alerting the authorities of such a possbility, not to mention the Delhi Police, who probably got taken for a ride since May, the anti terrorism liasion officer misused his say with them. These details need to come out.

Also, if the Ford foundaton is behind the accusations on the Judges, the top echelon of the Indian Judiciary is being targeted, again Modi could find himself in Morsi's situation. Then if DK's father is floating a political party, a compromised DK settled in US would have been an even more useful asset, it will be similar to the way we are having misgivings on AAP's funding. So, I don't think they were oblivious to DK's dalit status.

As I have been saying that only logical answer is that Munna is compromised and Delhi Police was activily colluding with US embassy. GoI had no problem with the rape of DK, the problem started with media frenzy created by DK politically powerful father.

US Embassy till date has neither closed the club nor provided any information on the school. What prevents an Income Tax and Directorate of Enforcement survey?

[saip]

They dont need to close the club. Only they have to stop 'commercial activities' i.e. stop others who are not us diplos from using the facilities.

[Madhusudhan]

Shutdown the school. Any response must be disproportionate so that the perpetrators never forget. The SD must truly have a hardship posting in India once the thousand cuts are done

[vic]

There is no need for shutdown, it simply cannot operate without violating a dozen laws everyday, so just enforce basic laws and it will shut down automatically

[chaanakya]

I googled Rudra Chaudhri. He is a young scholar at King's College London and is one of the new generation of coconuts.

As contrasted to Old generation of Coconuts? or should I say MutuNuts??

This phrase of yours may get goats of some like that of "Moral Compass"

[Anand K]

From here:-

To be eligible for asylum in the United States, the applicant must demonstrate that s/he is a “refugee” as defined by INA §101(a)(42), which includes several elements, each of which has been defined in greater detail through regulations and case law:
-outside of country of nationality or, for those without a nationality, outside country last habitually resided;
-unable or unwilling to return to that country and unable or unwilling to avail self of protection of that country;
-because of persecution or a well-founded fear of persecution;
-on account of race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion.

What is the legal basis for Americans whisking away the Richards, who are technically Indian citizens? The Richards are "refugees" seeking asylum in the US because of duress in their home country? How does this hold up under UN laws?

Does Ungulimaama's office have the power to authorize and execute this ...... exfiltration? What agencies were involved in this act? There must have been interfacing meetings/e-mails/whatever.

[ranjbe]

Then if DK's father is floating a political party, a compromised DK settled in US would have been an even more useful asset, it will be similar to the way we are having misgivings on AAP's funding. So, I don't think they were oblivious to DK's dalit status

.

There are a number of Dalits, almost all with very good qualifications, who have risen to the very top. Two examples from the Indian Foreign Service, Lok Sabha Speaker Meira Kumar and K. Narayanan, former President of India come to mind. Among others is K. G. Balakrishnan, former Chief Justice of India. Anyone looking at how professional spy outfits such as the CIA or MI6 operate, would notice that they often invest in long-term potential. A foreign intelligence service looking to turn/spy on a potential long-term winner would look at Ms. Khobargande with her academic background and family background, as a prime candidate.

[a_bharat]

Our MUTU makes it mainstream!!!! with a variation off course.

He calls it MATA (More American than Americans)

Kanwal Sibal used this phrase on a TV show when the story first broke -- at the time when we were trying harsher adjectives like House Ni***rs. I just realized that "House N***er" is an unintended pun when Obama is in the office.

[Madhusudhan]

With the number of MUTUs coming out of the woodwork, we will soon have MMTMs

[Anand K]

I predict a Durga Puja pandal this year - the set modeled on the U.S. Capitol/White House, with a Devyani-Devi slaying a Bhararasur.

[Gus]

What is the legal basis for Americans whisking away the Richards, who are technically Indian citizens? The Richards are "refugees" seeking asylum in the US because of duress in their home country? How does this hold up under UN laws?

not refugees. T visa is for human trafficking victims and family. it is different category and seems to be a new thing. a_gupta posted stats and the numbers are increasing in recent years with india being top country. i am guessing folks are gaming this.

[vina]

From NY Times, hidden away in the "Ejjukashun" section.

Indian School Ensnared in US Diplomatic Row

A handout for new teachers at this city’s exclusive American Embassy School, an academic oasis for children of American diplomats and other expatriates, offers some unusual guidance to female teachers whose husbands will also be teaching at the school.

“The female spouse should not state that she will be working,” the handout states, instructing spouses to list their occupation on visa applications as “housewife,” adding that “no sexism is intended on our part.”

That advice, which top Indian officials say is illegal, has ensnared the American school, a cherished institution among foreigners living here, in a growing diplomatic spat between India and the United States

Paul Chmelik, the school’s top administrator, refused to comment on Tuesday about the visa issue with the Indian government. Expecting an article in The New York Times, Mr. Chmelik emailed parents on Wednesday warning that “there could be a goodly number of members of the media present around the perimeter of the school during the course of the school day today and Thursday and Friday.”

False rumors have swirled through the school in recent days of vast teacher dismissals, and Nancy J. Powell, the American ambassador to India, addressed a special meeting Tuesday afternoon of school faculty and staff members. About a third of the school’s nearly 1,500 students are from the United States, another 20 percent are from South Korea and the rest come from dozens of other countries. The students include many children of foreign diplomats, executives and journalists.

WHAT!!!! They teach third country kids as well , charge $20k per student , ask their employees to LIE and then NOT PAY TAX!!

A senior Indian official estimated that the American Embassy School had at least 16 teachers working illegally, and that smaller American schools in Mumbai and Chennai probably had several more. Schools are not alone in this: Many tax laws in India are at best fitfully enforced and often widely ignored

Ms. Khobragade’s arrest has plucked at deep sensitivity over how India is portrayed, and the news media and the public have searched for examples of American diplomats’ misbehaving. This has led to headlines and a dedicated website in recent days listing some of the Facebook posts of Wayne and Alicia Muller May,

“One week in country and I already miss STEAK,” Mr. May, head of embassy security in New Delhi, stated in one post among many that caused outrage. Cows are venerated by Indian Hindus, and slaughtering cows is illegal in many places. In another, Ms. May, the embassy’s community liaison officer, responded to an article that claimed nonvegetarians were more prone to violence. “It’s the vegetarians that are doing the raping, not the meat eaters — this place is just so bizarre,” she wrote.

Oh.. Well done Gardiner Harris reporting from Delhi for NYT.. Toning done the comparisons of the gardener's diet and Paco's protein intake aren't we ? Watering down the gratuitous references to Hindu Gods and the disdain in general to everyone and everything, including that gracious Imam who welcomed those idiots and showed them hospitality aren't we ? Hope you feel good when you think back about the times when maybe after knocking back a couple of beers ASCI bar were lounging in the pool and how you looked down your supercilious nose at the waiters and other brown guys serving you. Did you remember to be nice to them like you normally would have back home,or did you throw airs like your embassy pals did? Shame!

[Anand K]

I am more interested in the exfiltration aspect - AFAIK holders of T-2/3-4 visas have to pay for their own tickets as per US Law.
So, if the USG paid for this using it's own funds and through it's official travel agency, in a very expedited manner, doesn't it amount to a rushed extraction of somebody facing duress? That is, extracting assets from death/torture in their home countries? OTOH T-2/3/4 visas are used so that the family has a chance to join, in their stead, the trafficked person in the US for a short while.

I think it's a distinction which should be investigated. JM2c.

[SSridhar]

With the number of MUTUs coming out of the woodwork, we will soon have MMTMs

I think that MMTM should get into BR dictionary.

[chaanakya]

US embassy still elusive on Indian staff details

US Embassy is involved in Visa fraud.
It is also involved in tax evasion.
It is also involved in FEMA violations.
It is running commercial establishments without seeking licesnses under various local laws such as Shops and Establishment Act, Delhi Education Act, Fixation of fees and stipulations of Delhi Govt reg. admission of local students etc.
Labour Laws and Wages Act, EPF and ESIC regulations are violated.
Work Permit rules are violated.
Furnished false information on Visa documents.

No wonder they are caught in their own games with their pants down.Now they delay in giving information. What happened to law abiding nature of theirs and their declaration by Harf baby that they follow local laws.

I think all benefits must be codified in legal agreements with US on reciprocal benefits basis. Nothing more should be allowed.

More than three weeks after the December 23 deadline got over, the US embassy is yet to submit details about the Indian staffers at American schools as well as in its mission and consulates. The details — names of the staffers and their salary details — include those Indians employed by
US diplomats in personal capacity such as maids and drivers.

Meanwhile, it has emerged that American embassy school in New Delhi has warned parents about a report appearing in the media about the school. It seems to be the fallout of an internal missive of the school with teachers, which reportedly sought to hide the actual details of their US staffers reaching sections of media.

The reason could be that many US teachers are not on work visa. Besides visa rules violation, this could also lead to possible tax violations.

It was in the wake of the diplomatic row after the arrest of Devyani Kbobragade that the external affairs ministry began to question the functioning of the American school.

However, US embassy didn’t respond to a detailed email from HT on the issue.

At a briefing in Washington after Khobragade’s return to India, state department spokesman Jen Psaki said, “This has clearly been a challenging time in the US-India relationship. We expect and hope that this will now come to closure.”

External affairs ministry on Monday indicated that it will move forward in the relationship with US based on “its experience” in the past.

[Jarita]

Then if DK's father is floating a political party, a compromised DK settled in US would have been an even more useful asset, it will be similar to the way we are having misgivings on AAP's funding. So, I don't think they were oblivious to DK's dalit status

.

There are a number of Dalits, almost all with very good qualifications, who have risen to the very top. Two examples from the Indian Foreign Service, Lok Sabha Speaker Meira Kumar and K. Narayanan, former President of India come to mind. Among others is K. G. Balakrishnan, former Chief Justice of India. Anyone looking at how professional spy outfits such as the CIA or MI6 operate, would notice that they often invest in long-term potential. A foreign intelligence service looking to turn/spy on a potential long-term winner would look at Ms. Khobargande with her academic background and family background, as a prime candidate.

Can we not use the word Dalits? That itself was created by US churches. Can we mention - disadvantaged jaatis or harijans

[shiv]

Can we not use the word Dalits? That itself was created by US churches. Can we mention - disadvantaged jaatis or harijans

+1

The legally accepted words are Scheduled Castes/Scheduled tribes. - SC/ST

[Singha]

They dont need to close the club. Only they have to stop 'commercial activities' i.e. stop others who are not us diplos from using the facilities.

enforcing of duties and reduction of membership to only diplomatic staff will surely hit the economic viability of the place. right now it must be cash flow +ve. let the SD spent for its amenities from own pocket.

About a third of the school’s nearly 1,500 students are from the United States, another 20 percent are from South Korea and the rest come from dozens of other countries. The students include many children of foreign diplomats, executives and journalists.

1500 students is a gigantic number. the school website states its purpose was for children of american diplomats. not sure how other nations and non-diplomats were allowed to be pulled in.

[Javee]

The US School in Chennai is not just for embassy folks, it is for anybody who can pay $20K. The student folks here are primarily expats, but increasingly kids from elite local families. If one wish to pursue bachelors in a ivy league school, they start their education at the American school here, at least that's what I heard from one of the kid who went here and started college in East coast.

AISC’s community of families is connected to government, corporate, and educational organizations located in Chennai. We have 900 students who represent a diverse demographic mixture from approximately thirty countries. Koreans comprise approximately 33%, North Americans 22%, Europeans 22% (French 7%, and German 4%), Indian 9%, Japanese 7%, and the remainder from Southeast Asia, South America, and Africa.

[Karan M]

Meanwhile contrary to all the hullagulla, cooler heads are going to prevail..

Sure, ties between world's largest democracies have turned frosty, but there is nothing to gloat in Islamabad or Bejing..

In spite of simmering differences arising from the episode, all gloom and doom type talk was a little premature. Both India and US wants to go ahead with the larger strategic agenda that includes defense and energy cooperation...

------

Not only the views of some BRF members, ..says so India's ambassador in US and deputy secretary of state William Burns.....
BTW I happened to have interesting talk with our (US) congressman.., (to his credit listened to me for a long time and seem to understand that the lawmakers ought to do some thing to prevent the kind of stunts pulled by some which are not helpful to US)

I hope you mention the "civilizing the natives" narrative that appears in MSM like the NYT, WaPo etc all to your congressman. It is these attitudes which persist amongst the so called "elite" which upset many of us.

The incredibly racist & biased coverage in the NYT in particular, which seems to think that they have the automatic right to talk down to anyone from a different culture or nation.

[a_bharat]

No wonder they are caught in their own games with their pants down.Now they delay in giving information. What happened to law abiding nature of theirs and their declaration by Harf baby that they follow local laws.

Well, they are taking the 5th.

[Karan M]

The US School in Chennai is not just for embassy folks, it is for anybody who can pay $20K. The student folks here are primarily expats, but increasingly kids from elite local families. If one wish to pursue bachelors in a ivy league school, they start their education at the American school here, at least that's what I heard from one of the kid who went here and started college in East coast.

There should be some analysis done of what exactly India itself gets out of sending a number of students abroad to do MS/PhD. Few come back to India. At best, I suspect, the net gain is firmly on the US side - talent + huge forex outflows.

[Kati]

If the khan mission in Nayi dilli doesn't provide the details of employment of its unauthorized staff, and if GoI pretend not to see the matter and keep dilli-dallying, then how can one bring a PIL at dilli HC? Am ready to contribute for lawyers' fees for the PIL.