India-US Strategic News and Discussion

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 17 Jan 2014 22:40

deleted

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 17 Jan 2014 22:44

Ramana ji,

Given that folks (ST and SP) have disowned some of the comments and even claiming that their accounts were hacked, do you think the it is still far fetched that tweets and other social media entries are not manipulated by powers that be with/without collusion with business entities?

Who will believe ST now given that SP is no more?

As far as the ability of social media to trigger or be used as leverage, the whole KobraGate (was meaning to use this term for a few days now but have seen a similar in the link posted by KrishnaK - Khobragade Gate) has parallels with Boston Marathon gate.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 17 Jan 2014 23:02

The End of India's Sovereignty Hawks? - it’s time for the world’s largest democracy to start promoting human rights.

BY Sumit Ganguly , Eswaran Sridharan
NOVEMBER 7, 2013

With the exception of China, Russia, and perhaps Brazil, few regional powers of any consequence are as protective of their sovereignty as India. Its policymakers have expressed reservations about the emergent norm of the "responsibility to protect"; it abstained from voting on the 1998 Rome Statute, which led to the creation of the International Criminal Court, arguing that such a body would infringe on national sovereignty; it has mostly shied away from attempts to promote democracy abroad. That needs to change -- at least at the regional level, to start -- if trust, peace, and meaningful cooperation are to be established in South Asia, all of which are in the interests of both India and its neighbors.

All of India's neighbors are struggling with the challenges of liberalism and the tasks of forging representative and inclusive governance in diverse societies. Sri Lanka, for example, is rapidly turning into an illiberal democracy in which the Tamil minority is systematically marginalized, and it still refuses to acknowledge the anti-Tamil pogrom that swept through Colombo in 1983. Pakistan has, at best, made a tenuous transition to democracy, and its military still bears the taint of the East Pakistan genocide of 1971. In Bangladesh, Hindus and Buddhists face routine discrimination. And Nepal has only the trappings of an electoral democracy after the overthrow of its anachronistic monarchy and confrontation with a Maoist insurgency.

Admittedly, as a sprawling, post-colonial society riven with ethnic and class cleavages, India has seen more than its fair share of human rights violations, and despite the existence of an independent judiciary, its ability to mete out justice has been wanting. It failed to prosecute those who directed the pogrom in New Delhi against the Sikh population that followed the assassination of Prime Minister Indira Gandhi in 1984. And only last year did it succeed in incarcerating one of the key perpetrators of the Gujarat pogrom of February 2002 -- Mayaben Kodnani, a Bharatiya Janata Party politician -- for her role in instigating anti-Muslim mobs.

India's uneven performance on human rights, however, should not prevent it from advocating for their protection and for inclusive democracy in its neighborhood and beyond. Few countries that promote human rights abroad enjoy an unblemished record at home, whether historical or contemporary. And India's limitations, while real, are not so outlandish as to prevent it from embracing a vigorous human rights and democracy agenda.

India has addressed its shortcomings through institutional measures, albeit fitfully. When faced with much international as well as domestic criticism while dealing with an ethno-religious insurgency in the disputed state of Jammu and Kashmir, it created the National Human Rights Commission in 1993. Some critics were quick to dismiss this new entity as a toothless body at best and a sop to Cerberus at worst. However, to their surprise and to the delight of others, the commission quickly acquired a degree of organizational autonomy and sought to extend its writ.

Not content with simply addressing complaints of human rights violations on the part of security forces, the commission soon started to probe prison conditions, child labor abuses, and the like. It has no enforcement powers, so its capacity to effect change is limited. However, it does possess the ability to "name and shame," thereby deterring would-be abusers of human rights. Although a culture of rights and their consistent enforcement has yet to take hold across every sector of Indian society, an effort to create such a climate is clearly under way. The process will be long, arduous, and fraught with setbacks, but that tortured course seems to be a well-worn pathway for states as they seek to enshrine such "irreducible minimums" -- to borrow an evocative phrase from Canadian human rights activist and political theorist Michael Ignatieff.

Strong Indian support for human rights and democracy in South Asia would reduce regional tensions and build cooperation. Comparatively speaking, India has followed a nation-building strategy at home that is inclusive and accommodative in religious, linguistic, ethnic, and cultural terms. In contrast to others in its neighborhood -- in which there are four formally Islamic states (Pakistan, Bangladesh, the Maldives, and Afghanistan), until recently a Hindu state (Nepal), a Buddhist state (Bhutan), and an ethno-linguistic-religious majoritarian and unitary state (Sinhalese-Buddhist Sri Lanka) -- India is a secular, federal, multilingual, and multicultural state that institutionalizes power sharing among its various groups. Its constitutional and political experience, warts and all, can offer invaluable lessons in managing a diverse society.

Given South Asia's history of partition and secession (the 1947 Partition into India and Pakistan, the 1971 secession of Bangladesh, the 30-year civil war in Sri Lanka), all rooted in real or feared majoritarianism, inclusive and accommodative democracy and commitments to human rights are vital to cultivate the trust necessary to resolve regional conflicts and integrate minorities. This is because, in South Asia, perceptions of the intentions of neighboring states toward one's own country are shaped by the way that minorities that might be viewed as one's kinfolk are treated in that country. Such "kin" minorities -- religious, linguistic, and ethnic -- abound in a region of ethnic overlaps. Hence, it is in the region's interest, and in India's interest as the region's hub, to promote inclusive democracy and human rights as a way of calming suspicions, turning around hostile attitudes, and moving toward regional integration.

There are a few signs that India's traditional antipathy toward democracy promotion is shifting. For example, in 2012 and 2013, India voted against Sri Lanka at the U.N. Human Rights Council, censuring Colombo for its failure to address charges of rampant human rights violations in the sanguinary end to its civil war in 2009. Furthermore, at a global level, it voted at the U.N. Security Council to impose the initial sanctions on Libya. But a broader push is needed.

Perhaps it is time to rethink the exclusion of domestic issues from the South Asian Association for Regional Cooperation, the only regional forum designed to promote integration in South Asia, and move toward a normative regime that entrenches inclusive democracy, human and minority rights, and regional autonomy or federalism for minority regions. Even if these are not made membership criteria, as democracy is for the European Union, and even if there is no surrender of sovereignty over human rights to a supranational regional court, as in the Council of Europe, it is time to start thinking of a regional normative regime on democracy that builds trust about the intentions of each state toward kin minorities and hence toward neighboring states.

Given its institutional choices and social movements, India's political leadership should no longer seek to take refuge in tired shibboleths about sovereignty and instead willingly embrace the emerging consensus that states indeed have duties beyond borders. As a state that rarely tires of stressing its democratic credentials at home, it should now demonstrate that it can act on the courage of its convictions. To that end, it needs to take forceful stands when it witnesses the flagrant violation of human rights both in its own neighborhood and beyond, and promote a normative regime of inclusive democracy for the region.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2 ... man_rights

An idea which I typed as a draft few days back after reading above artecal(penned in Nov 2013 in Foreign Policy magazine) plainly acknowleding the role of Human Rights issues in encroaching the Soverginity of non western countries (like India). Maybe DK incident was precipitated with similar "deep thinking" by folks in SD on India's Human rights issues.

Shouldnt we then have a Human Rights watch thread on USA and UK as a first step to match the work of ...

1) Four dozen or so SouthAsia types Humanrights NGOs operating out of India - setup with Unkils seed money(through its ford foundations and manned(or womanned) by its Rhodes scholars etc trained in its half a dozen SouthAsia departments in places like UPenn and Brown among others... (Singha Saar has listed in one of his posts in this thread http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 0#p1574720 )

2)Countless Human Rights orgs operating out of Massa mainland and Briturdia continuously focussing on India(SouthAsia) among others and lending their voice when ever their Western establishments want to bring to bear pressure on some hapless turdworld (day before yesterday it was India wrt Kashmir , Yesterday it was Srilanka wrt its War, Today its Iran , tomorrow it can be India again...and so on )

3) The standing committees on Human Rights etc of Massa and especially briturd legislatures which annually give out Human rights reports and go as far as to regularly condemn weak turdworld entities to damnation on the floor of their parliaments/legislature.

4) The heavy weight "International" orgs like Amnesty international , Human rights watch,Green peas etc which are entirely manned (or womanned) by Western pasand "Internationalists" acting as use full tools for blackmail and browbeating ops.

And these together are ganging up on a turd world (especially India) as China (One point five world) and Russia (Second world) are countering the perception game well through their Independent and well received media ( especially in Russians case). They even give out their own Human rights reports annually on Western world .

So methinks Indians should not hold out and contribute to the much needed focus on the gamut of Human rights issues plaguing United States of America - especially Prostitution,Sex trafficking,Child grooming,Por nography (adult and child ) , Trafficking of labor , indentured labor with threats and no social security , Human rights abuses by their troops overseas, familial human rights violations - in all the permutations and combinations, innate Violence in their societies expressed by greatest number of robberies,murders and rapes per capita than most developing countries including India not even considering the vast number of unreported sexual crimes in Massaland, drug abuse (16 % of adults are drug users) per latest report,Human rights of their Prisoners (in this regard no Indian should ever be extradited due to the animalization of their prisoners through a deliberate policy) , Racial discrimination between blacks and whites, between blacks and Asians ,between whites and Asians and between whites and Hispanics ... and most other permutations and combinations in between.

So ultimately there is no way to ignore Human Rights violations of this scale In USA and UK ... and India too should at somepoint of time start to do this... as China and Russia already do so..

Let's start NOW by opening a thread on brf for collating all the Human Rights violations of Western world (especially Massa and Briturdia) . Then every year end the thread can be archived and its contents published on cyberweb as Human Rights watch report by India for USA and UK - Year so and so - ending with a note of dismay at the worsening human situation year on year .

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 17 Jan 2014 23:15

chaanakya wrote:I am not sure from where retaliation part is creeping in the discourse. It is always about following rule and laws and diplomatic conventions as agreed upon. US seems to have argued that Rule following is important and in US everyone follows rules , laws and SOP or at least sworn to follow that, uphold that. VCCR or VCDR are secondary and US laws are primary on US soil. Right.

SO we are only insisting that they follow rule and we make sure that they follow it to the dot. As for reciprocal benefits , that is as decided by VCCR/VCDR and as observed by both countries. If we think US did not follow it in some respect to that extent their personnel having VCCR/VCDR would be exposed on Indian soil. They are sure to agree that SOP and rule of law would be followed and that is Indian made laws on Indian soil.

The talk of infy/tcs and sanctions are red herring. They have done all that and much more. We couldn't care less.

The hallmark of minions is to hint darkly about retaliation and other egregious things. It happens all the time. Even during the nuke test debate we used to get that here. The object is to shut the discourse.

Satya_anveshi, Late Sunandaji (unke atmako shanti ho) had stated she had logged into her husband's account to expose the Paki woman's perfidy. I don't think a spouse using her husbands' account is hacking.
I dont think it had any covert action except maybe in her death.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 17 Jan 2014 23:28

pankajs wrote:The ugly American-Indian

Nice find, especially the bit about the "Darjeeling Tea Party".

srin · Post by **srin** » 17 Jan 2014 23:34

If you want to challenge the US hegemony over the "human rights" and democracy (just check wiki on how long South Korea was a dictatorship), you need to build some institutions - either alone or in conjunction with the BRICs as "international institutions".

The following come to mind:
a) Credit rating agency to rival Moody's etc. And make it mandatory for any company doing FDI to have AA+ rating. Useful if you want to squeeze the b*lls of anyone

b) Human rights rating - and publish a list of countries that support dictatorships & coups and also a list of companies.

c) Financial blacklist - for those that allow tax-free investments and also don't provide information - like Switzerland.

d) Top unbiased journalism - to combat WaPo etc.

It is required that these show the story in a different light. Every narrative is controlled by CNN and WaPo, and we all know they survive on selective leaks by WH staffers. Put them on the defensive and watch the fun. Will take around 10 years to gain credibility but will help.

member_20292 · Post by **member_20292** » 17 Jan 2014 23:46

Raja Bose wrote:After this DK live in maid affair, I fully expect all stay at home moms in the great United States to sue their husbands in court for bonded labor and not getting paid at least minimum wages in cash.

Bose dada, tum kitne bhole ho yaar. Itne time se america main reh kar, you must know this

This facility is already present in america, and wimmen take full advantage of it.

It's called "I'm taking him to the cleaners a.k.a Divorce court"

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 17 Jan 2014 23:55

Lilo wrote:And these together are ganging up on a turd world (especially India) as China (One point five world) and Russia (Second world) are countering the perception game well through their Independent and well received media ( especially in Russians case). They even give out their own Human rights reports annually on Western world .

Agreed, but we probably won't do this, unless there is an egregious event that is visible to the aam desi public. Till then, most desi folks would question why are issuing these reports. This will change only when the discourse on the MSM changes regarding usage of NGOs to subvert our systems. Currently, people like Udayakumar are glorified for their obduracy, and not many question his motives. I personally think that we should do this, but without the drama associated with the Chinese human rights reports. By quietly planting policy papers in various journals, we can start low key and avoid public blowback, yet firing a first shot on this road. People in the know will get the message.

Lilo wrote:(in this regard no Indian should ever be extradited due to the animalization of their prisoners through a deliberate policy)

This is a must, no matter the issue at hand. Democracies don't have to be obliging friends and hand over accused citizens (even one way). I am reminded of the scene in the Dark Knight movie, where Morgan Freeman says "the Chinese will never extradite one of their own". What a powerful statement - I wish we commanded the same sentiment!

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 18 Jan 2014 00:21

d) Top unbiased journalism - to combat WaPo etc.

It is required that these show the story in a different light. Every narrative is controlled by CNN and WaPo, and we all know they survive on selective leaks by WH staffers. Put them on the defensive and watch the fun. Will take around 10 years to gain credibility but will help.

Take a moment to think about what these people have been doing

They claim a simple slogan:

Fact-based in-depth news

These days when anything really nasty comes up where I don't trust the See Enn Enn propaganda - e.g., the attempt to get into a war in Syria - I go to this site to get a balanced view. Impressive.

No blanket endorsement implied, just pointing out that they are successful and probably have intent just like yours, to be able to present their pov. The more impressive thing is that they control their anger very very well, you have to look deep to see any trace of their biases. For instance, in reporting on an oil tanker train wreck in the US, they did a pukka hatchet job on countries where oil was still carried around in trains through populated areas. The wreck was buried in See Enn Enn.

And they don't compromise on technical quality.

Compare to the relatively pathetic state of desi Major Portals such as Rediff (looks like a railway station magazine stand now) and NewsPapers (ToiLet, Hundi) despite the long head start and "free press" and all the "even our chote-chote bacche bhi angreji mein baat kar sakte hai, pukka Brish*t accent se"

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Jan 2014 00:26

srin, I think the US Human rights crusade is a post Christian, post Roman journey. They want to transfer the guilt on a non-Christian society.

If this is correct we don't want to interrupt the journey.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 18 Jan 2014 00:27

This human rights is perhaps a side show. We can arrange a few visa in India for example for people running from slavery - not that we are short of infiltrators. However, how does this measure up to wrt top-down/management/structured approach to international diplomacy of ratifications/reciprocity - which seems to be acoided.

Human rights seem to be seemingly neutral domain- like science- even though even in USA, any less than perfect behavior by USA citizens was never in question.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 18 Jan 2014 00:30

UlanBatori wrote:
d) Top unbiased journalism - to combat WaPo etc.

It is required that these show the story in a different light. Every narrative is controlled by CNN and WaPo, and we all know they survive on selective leaks by WH staffers. Put them on the defensive and watch the fun. Will take around 10 years to gain credibility but will help.
Take a moment to think about what these people have been doing

They claim a simple slogan:
Fact-based in-depth news
No endorsement implied, just pointing out that they are successful and probably have intent just like yours, to be able to present their pov. The more impressive thing is that they control their anger very very well, you have to look deep to see any trace of their biases. And they don't compromise on technical quality.

Compare to the relatively pathetic state of desi Major Portals such as Rediff (looks like a railway station magazine stand now) and NewsPapers (ToiLet, Hundi) despite the long head start and "free press" and all the "even our chote-chote bacche bhi angreji mein baat kar sakte hai, pukka Brish*t accent se"

Al Jazeera is old stuff (minions like Qatar cant sustain such a big mouth for long) their limitations got exposed and got whooped by Russia Today(RT) etc in the months leading to Syrian escalation .

But yes that's the challenge India should take up and succeed as we do have the manpower and resourcefulness.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 18 Jan 2014 00:39

Lilo,I've been saying this for some time.Setting up our equiv of the ICJ,the international "War Crimes Tribunal",where war criminals like Tony B Liar,Dubya Bush,Condy Rice and co.,Henry K,Warren Anderson,O'Bomber, et al, are indicted for their war crimes.The human rights duplicity and hypocrisy of the western world should be explored (by our NRI NGOs-funded by us), exposed and the guilty "executed",metaphorically and if caught,found guilty,physically too.Were Saddam and Gadhaffi given fair trials?

If the embassy is not running the school,then it is past time for a raid.But if the land belongs to the embassy,the US, is sacrosant,then the embassy/US is truly complicit in the lie and should face diplomatic punishment for the same,the least being the closure/suspension of the school ,with the liars amongst the teaching staff despatched by DHL homeward bound.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 18 Jan 2014 01:11

The embassy disowning the school is truly

So they are saying that the land, name and employees of the American Embassy are used, and two of the Board Members are directly appointed by the Ambassador, all for a commercial money-laundering and visa fraud scam.

As India pointed out, commercial activities except in selling to US diplomats, is forbidden use of Embassy premises, and has to end January 16, period. So there goes the School.

With the 2 board members and all those embassy staffers employed, there is NO WAY that the Embassy can deny knowledge and complicity in the systematic, deliberate visa fraud and tax fraud and money laundering (depositing money to a someone else's account to avoid taxes is money laundering, is it not?)

To jail with the whole gang! They can all get halal rape-inducing dal chappattis that they roll themselves, at Tihar, between cavity searches.

No wonder the MMS govt is quiet - now that this scam is exposed, are they going to let these turds off without paying back taxes, interest and penalties and serving time for deliberate tax fraud? If so it becomes an election issue.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 18 Jan 2014 01:13

BTW, with the link that KLN Murthy posted, I see that the GOTUS SD names in India all have now very empty FB pages if at all they have them. ANMOLIZED, I presume?

member_22872 · Post by **member_22872** » 18 Jan 2014 01:15

Purged before they get ANMOLIZED perhaps

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 18 Jan 2014 01:17

Purged

Hmm! U mean Empty - ANMOLIZED cavities!

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 18 Jan 2014 02:02

BTW, the Mays have now made it to the Big Time!

No shyness about presenting the full details, and the operative word is "kicked out".

Apparently happened full-scale upon return to US, or maybe now gracing the Consulate in Vladivostok or Ulan Bator until end of March.

Wonder what the comments are like in the Russian, Chinese and Venezuelan media

Karan Dixit · Post by **Karan Dixit** » 18 Jan 2014 03:08

American Embassy School is a private commercial institution which reaps a profit of millions of dollars a year and does not pay a dime in taxes. This should be rectified immediately. Now, AES is not alone in this type of game. There are countless small operatives from Europe that work in India but pretend to be tourist to avoid paying taxes. Indian government needs to clean this mess up so that people of India are not being cheated out of the money that is theirs.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 18 Jan 2014 04:18

mahadevbhu wrote:
Raja Bose wrote:After this DK live in maid affair, I fully expect all stay at home moms in the great United States to sue their husbands in court for bonded labor and not getting paid at least minimum wages in cash.
Bose dada, tum kitne bhole ho yaar. Itne time se america main reh kar, you must know this

This facility is already present in america, and wimmen take full advantage of it.

It's called "I'm taking him to the cleaners a.k.a Divorce court"

I meant, without going the divorce route. Keep the hubby bleeding by a 1000 cuts instead of chopping his mijjile off in one lop.

chanakyaa · Post by **chanakyaa** » 18 Jan 2014 04:24

UlanBatori wrote:?...

No wonder the MMS govt is quiet - now that this scam is exposed, are they going to let these turds off without paying back taxes, interest and penalties and serving time for deliberate tax fraud? If so it becomes an election issue.

I still can't believe BJP is not making this into a media circus. DK episode and years of tax fraud....I just don't get it. Hope NaMo is not thinking that the election is in the bag. BJP has a golden opportunity finish Gandis once and for all. What the heck are they waiting for?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Jan 2014 04:32

The return of the Mays to US shows the power shift of the global information age. US is the acknowledged "Master of all that is seen" with military, economic and media power on their side and yet had to recall the diplomats.
What started as a diplomatic Goliath punishing an errant David has turned reverse.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 18 Jan 2014 04:40

chanakyaa wrote: I still can't believe BJP is not making this into a media circus. DK episode and years of tax fraud....I just don't get it. Hope NaMo is not thinking that the election is in the bag. BJP has a golden opportunity finish Gandis once and for all. What the heck are they waiting for?

Only people seeking the truth and uncovering corruption can do the real damage. It will be authentic

V_Raman · Post by **V_Raman** » 18 Jan 2014 05:14

We have come to the old conclusion again: If only we enforced our laws, our enemies will not have a chance. Our problem is internal onlee...

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 18 Jan 2014 05:31

There are three very active politics threads for the purpose of discussing the Indian internal domestic politics of this matter. Please keep discussions in this thread to the actions of the official governments and press.

chanakyaa · Post by **chanakyaa** » 18 Jan 2014 06:06

ramana wrote:The return of the Mays to US shows the power shift of the global information age. US is the acknowledged "Master of all that is seen" with military, economic and media power on their side and yet had to recall the diplomats.
What started as a diplomatic Goliath punishing an errant David has turned reverse.

Does it not highlight how precious Indian market to them? Mays are irrelevant when it comes mercantile benefit to them. 20 years ago this would have been cause of joy but today it is not. But, that is just my opinion...

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 18 Jan 2014 06:12

The Mays were withdrawn, imo, because the scope of their misadventures began to sink in. Had they been allowed to be arrested and their mental cavities searched, they may have revealed where the predjudice and orders came from. So they had to be taken away. The revelations about their FB pages just meant that they are probably fired.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 18 Jan 2014 06:23

The mays and their understanding exposes the soft underbelly of SD and the population in general. They are taught that nion whites are inferior(subtly) and many other prejudices are ingrained. this and many others have been told on and often over the last 200 years.

america(read whites) have understood the other countries peoples through how the whites want to portray the natives and not the reality.

I have seen may well meaning americans ask me some mundane questions which shows their stupidity and lack of knowledge about other people.
common american accepts if told the truth but the above average american who is a breed on his/her own have their convoluted way of thinking.

some of the above is strictly my own experience.

jmts.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Jan 2014 07:16

chanakyaa, Joseph Nye wrote a book "Future of Power" where he says traditional measures of power don't match the new global information age. I dont think its the mercantile or market. Its the nakedness of own dogma when the very persons at the center of spiriting away the maid's family are shown to be quite lacking in what the US wants to claim to be overflowing. The dichotomy forced them to withdraw the lady. The irony is she as reacting to a book by a Seventh Day Adventist preacher on the virtues of vegetarianism.

krisna, Over the years I have met many Americans of all hues who were very understanding and appreciative on Indians. I met a few who are not.
I wouldn't generalize.

A fond memory is my visit to a friend's home in Connecticut. His mother went to the local library and read up books on India to prepare for my visit. Turns out she had served in India during WWII and had great memories of Gopalpur on Sea and Chilka Lake in Orissa!!!

Nesoj · Post by **Nesoj** » 18 Jan 2014 08:14

and the screws keep on slowly turning ... tighter & tighter ...

MEA summons US envoy over school tax fraud
http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/mea-summons-us-envoy-over-school-tax-fraud/article1-1174106.aspx

The United States Embassy number two was called in by the ministry of external affairs to explain a New York Times article that alleged many teachers at the American Embassy School had been paid salaries in a manner designed to avoid taxes and violative of their visa status.

never underestimate the bureaucratic baboos ...

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 18 Jan 2014 08:22

Acharya wrote:Only people seeking the truth and uncovering corruption can do the real damage. It will be authentic

Have some mercy on mere mortals,conspirator guru.

Also,let us not overplay the power of babus.The US has infiltrated our system and there are looming challenges in our bureacracy.

Sumit Ganguly and Easwar Sridharan types are highest level House Ni**ers having 'impeccable pedigree'.

They deserve supreme contempt,imho.

Whats the deal with daily mail? Why is it covering this issue so extensively?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Jan 2014 08:27

I thought "Tenkayya" was most appropriate.

BTW I saw SG in a seminar that ACM Mehra had addressed in Stan Madrassa. He was so bored even though Mehrasaab was telling it like it is.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Jan 2014 08:48

UlanBatori wrote:The Mays were withdrawn, imo, because the scope of their misadventures began to sink in. Had they been allowed to be arrested and their mental cavities searched, they may have revealed where the predjudice and orders came from. So they had to be taken away. The revelations about their FB pages just meant that they are probably fired.

Most likely it would have been empty!

GOI PNGed the husband as he was same rank as DK even though the wife bought the air tickets and MEA said she had a higher rank. However the FB posts revelation forced her to be brought back.
I was surprised when Cursed said the diplomat would leave in 3 days that is 72 hours when the initial order was 48 hours. So could be the Embassy informed the lady would be withdrawn with the husband and needed extra time.

PNG= Persona Non Grata

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 18 Jan 2014 09:11

UlanBatori wrote:Having read this thread with deep interest, I am respectfully submitting the following summary that came through the email for your kind consideration. Please provide factual corrections (and the facts to correct them). It is intended for use in educating, well.. ppl who may be able to make a "positive difference".

Excellent post !

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Jan 2014 09:22

One fly in the ointment is some Indian person had come forward as having recommended Sangeeta Richards to DK. The report was in Hind Times posted in this very thread.

KrishnaK · Post by **KrishnaK** » 18 Jan 2014 09:47

Karan M wrote:
KrishnaK wrote:The conspiracy part wasn't for you specifically. Your post says "students to the US most of whom don't come back". If that ain't NRIs who is eh ?
I made a specific point about how the US benefits from Indian emigration as versus the rubbish being put out by US media from time to time that the US somehow does India a favour by taking poorly paid Indian laborers etc & secondly, it is a key business benefit for the US education system, as versus the oft quoted business benefits India gets from the US by selling them stuff.

In response, you come back with this weird statement about NRIs and the Gulf. Whats the relevance apart from a reflexive desire to protect the US & twist the argument in process?

What the US media says, or what you think they say is irrelevant. Let's discuss weird. Desi emigrants, whether students or otherwise, do so mostly for lack of better opportunities. India isn't doing anybody a favour, least of all herself, by letting all those people emigrate. For a country like India to have emigrant repatriation as a major source of foreign exchange (at one point in time) to then go and say

let's analyze how we're doing you a favour by letting all those smart people emigrate to your country

is not weird at all. Let's say you do go ahead and analyze and the contribution ends up being epic. What then ? There quite a bit of news out there that acknowledges that already. If I were the US I'd be

laughing my ass off.

Ah sure, everything to do with "Indians", nothing to do with the US at all, eh? Nothing to do with its impact on US-India ties either..

Do enlighten me, tere analysis ko lekar kya ukhadega tu ?

Let's leave my raisin diet out of this for now. Surely there'll be plenty of opportunities for that later.
In the above post (and many others btw - your posting record speaks for itself), you demonstrate your single track belief system re: US uber alles. Go ahead, that's your prerogative, but it will get pointed out, especially when that sort of reflexive response muddles up the points being made by others.

Let me phrase this differently. My fondness for the US is pretty open. It isn't something I've tried to hide. You'll get lots of other chances to take that swipe. This one is self defeating.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 18 Jan 2014 10:09

V_Raman wrote:We have come to the old conclusion again: If only we enforced our laws, our enemies will not have a chance. Our problem is internal onlee...

In so far as DK issue is concerned , its not a question of enforcing our laws but ensuring that other countries abide by Vienna conventions and that we follow reciprocal relations /benefits in international diplomatic transactions.

The myth that US enforces Laws in true letter and spirit as their cops are sworn to uphold the laws etc needs to be broken. We have too many counter examples. Had they been able to enforce their laws in their own land Rodney King would not have happened in USA.

What we need to ensure that US embassy and their staff follow the laws of India in its totality even though we may not be able to fully ensure its compliance for other citizens of India for a variety of reasons( which needs to be narrowed down). That would not give them any excuse not to follow laws because we are not able to enforce it. And out internal problems are our to solve only , it is not open for US or any other country to take advantage of or to make an excuse of.

SO my conclusion is that Diplomutts of US need to follow our laws or face the music when we want them to face. Period.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 18 Jan 2014 10:23

Bharara given time till January 31 to respond to Khobragade's plea

New York: A US judge here has granted Manhattan's top prosecutor Preet Bharara time till January 31 to file his opposition to the motion submitted by Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade seeking dismissal of the indictment against her on visa fraud charges.

Khobragade's lawyer Daniel Arshack had on January 14 filed a 13-page motion in US District Court on 39-year-old diplomat's behalf seeking dismissal of the indictment, termination of conditions of her bail and of any "open" arrest warrants or requests for her extradition over the charges.

India-born Bharara wrote to US District Judge Shira Scheindlin on Friday seeking January 31 as the deadline to file the government's opposition brief and permission that the response be of up to 25 pages in length.

..
Bharara said that the additional time and increased length are "necessary to thoroughly address the complex legal issues and extensive relevant facts raised by the defendant's motion."

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 18 Jan 2014 10:25

chanakyaa wrote:
UlanBatori wrote:?...

No wonder the MMS govt is quiet - now that this scam is exposed, are they going to let these turds off without paying back taxes, interest and penalties and serving time for deliberate tax fraud? If so it becomes an election issue.
I still can't believe BJP is not making this into a media circus. DK episode and years of tax fraud....I just don't get it. Hope NaMo is not thinking that the election is in the bag. BJP has a golden opportunity finish Gandis once and for all. What the heck are they waiting for?

I think BJP is doing right by not inserting themselves into the issue as it involves foreign relations. It will give handle to US or other detractors to say actions are all political. As far as GOI is concerned , outcome is finely balanced and action is quite finetuned till now.

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 18 Jan 2014 11:29

I thought GOI asked that Wayne May be sent home as a result of the US requesting that Dr. K. leave. Now, some papers are reporting that the wife Alicia Muller May has also been deported. How did this happen. Was that a voluntary deportation?
Gautam