India-US Strategic News and Discussion

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 22 Jan 2014 02:56

If I read Nitin Pai right, he says what the US did is wrong, what India did is right, BUT.. exposing the fraud and money-laundering and tax evasion criminality of the AES is "going way overboard". IOW, "reciprocity" is wrong because the US has so much to (sell) to India, that requires BO's signature, so let's kiss his musharraf and not incur his displeasure by showing any spine. IOW, let's let them cheat on taxes, rape our diplomats, whatever, because we need them to sell us fracking technology so we can destroy our environment and contaminate our ground water.
To paraphrase the ancient "doha" that we learned in the IIT: posting the full glory of the doha will get me banned in a jiffy:

Jisko jitna chahiye
Kaat kaat le jayiye

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Jan 2014 03:18

AmberG, Very apt quote both in Hindi and in Japanese.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 22 Jan 2014 03:29

UlanBatori wrote:.. these ppl have fertile imaginations when it comes to inventing "offense" and "harassment" and "torture" and victimhood, even when there is absolutely none of that in reality? And they have the full might of the GOTUS to misuse on their side, until someone puts a stop to that from within the GOTUS. Right now it is in their interest to shut us up, just try not to facilitate that.

You are, of course, correct about "these ppl and fertile imaginations..unfortunately this is neither their fist attempt and it will not be their last... One thing I have seen that, cowards as they are, they are going to cut and run at their first opportunity.

I think your are exaggerating about the "full might of the GOTUS on their side". Yes they have taken some for a real ride but now even the mighty May Sahib is probably wishing for a better reward. (It can't be fun to pack your bori, bistar, bibi and bara-doberman in 48 hours and booted out while even your friends ask you about your brilliant FB posts).

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 22 Jan 2014 03:36

friends ask you about your brilliant FB posts

Esp as head of BDS.

With that lovely cummerbund and butler bow tie... he's all set to wonder (I mean know) why ppl seem to be grinning and then turning away and whispering when they see him and his Bibi at parties.

But you are probably underestimating the viciousness of the upper reaches of the SD, who ordered what they ordered against DK.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Jan 2014 04:03

AmberG, My friend brought over a collection of Jeff Foxworthy's quotes. I thought most apt one is

If an 80-year old woman or three years old girl who is confined to a wheelchair can be strip searched by the TSA at the airport while a woman in a burkha or hijaab is only subject to having her neck and head searched-you live in anation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots

Can be changed to

If a female diplomat is arrested while dropping her kids at school and cavity searched, while a maid on a non-working visa gets the T-Visa and her family gets T-3 visas and flight tickets to US, you live in a nation that has laws written by geniuses and run by idiots...

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 22 Jan 2014 05:47

What if the whole thing was a low level conspiracy to get SR out to USA and then to work for the Mays as they were close to retirement. So trafficking charges should apply to the Mays, no ? With all the family connections on the SR side of helpers to the Mays family, it is a plausible explanation if one discounts the spy angle. It all blew up in their faces and SR lost a prospective Amriki employer she already knew and was comfortable with. The person who recommended SR to DK was if I recall the name was (some Rekha) and was already working for a US family...maybe it was the Mays.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Jan 2014 05:49

Yeah I have been looking for who recommended SR to DK? It was in Hind Times and how she was feeling bad about what happened to DK.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 22 Jan 2014 05:54

SR has been reported as having Kerala origin, but the letter she wrote home was in Hindi. I was intrigued by that little fact too. Very unusual. Did she grow up in Dilli and was perhaps educated in a vernacular medium govt school.

Another fact which makes it even more crazier is that though hailing from Kerala, with an extended family in Dilli after absconding in NY, she did not seek out the local churches but was given shelter at a Sikh center. This too does not make sense. NY must have a large Kerala population from her community.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 22 Jan 2014 05:57

deleted

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 22 Jan 2014 05:59

Never heard of someone called Sangeeta from Bangalore, Keralastan. Doesn't look Malloo either (of course that says nothing).

she did not seek out the local churches but was given shelter at a Sikh center. This too does not make sense. NY must have a large Kerala population from her community.

No surprise there: Indian Pandus-e-Consulate and maybe even honest elements in NYPD were hunting for her, and only Khalistanis know how to shelter from those. Interesting connection, Khalistan and PB.... Elsewhere I heard Rajiv Malhotra was tweeting something about whether PB was going to go after Khalistanis or was he soft on terrorists.

This has big-time Eye Ess Eye written all over it. Rangudu I believe used to say that SD midlevel was totally overrun with Pakis, and we see some may have moved up to As*SOS level. I tell you, this is why one needs a good set of rabid T-Partyites barking and nipping at it: it has much more substance than the Benghazi SNAFU for sheer impeachment potential. Allowing EyEssEye/AQ to penetrate top levels of SD! Associating with Khalistan terrorists.. BDS taking orders from AQ... bringing the stellar reputation of the US of A into disrepute in the turd world through fB posts ... putting Paco at risk..

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 22 Jan 2014 06:08

From the horses' mouth! To be pondered upon by those apologists and fellow travellers of Uncle Sam on his expeditionary wars "all sound and fury signifying nothing...but destruction (of civilisation)".

Bob Gates,former US Def. Sec.that America ,in its last 40 years of dirty little wars,Korea,Vietnam,Iraq,Afghanistan,etc., "we've never once gotten it right"!

http://news.yahoo.com/message-nonviolen ... 11901.html

MESSAGE OF NONVIOLENCE WAS KING'S GREATEST GIFT
By Georgie Anne Geyer January 20, 2014

Xcpt:

So it occurs to me to wonder if any Americans today are speaking and thinking like Dr. King. I'd like to offer up two.

First, Robert Gates, the former secretary of defense whose just-released book, "Duty," is causing a firestorm among commentators. They're pinning him down on everything from his personal feelings about President Obama to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and the duties of the American officer corps.

But to me, his most important words were expressed in an interview on CNN, when he suddenly started speaking with quiet passion about what many of us derisively call the "small wars" that have occurred since World War II and the Korean War, especially Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan.

American defense and development planners do not have capacity enough to see the unforeseen, he said, and unless a country has a better idea of what it wants to accomplish and what might happen three or four steps ahead, it shouldn't engage in others' wars.

Then, in an amazing critique of America's defense "thinkers," Gates said he told the military to look at our decisions of the last 40 years -- "We've never once gotten it right."

These words were to me like manna from the gods. Vietnam: We lost 58,000 men and women and caused the deaths of millions, yet the most we do as a nation is pretend it never happened. An honest evaluation of it would have meant, for one thing, we would never have gotten into Iraq or Afghanistan.

Iraq: Again, there was no reason except ego to go into Iraq, and now the situation is even worse than at the beginning. Afghanistan: There were al-Qaida there whom we could have fought using commandos and intelligence; instead, we got into another of our hopeless democratization fantasies and have come close to destroying a country.

Second, President Barack Obama, whom many are still criticizing for not being tough enough and not meeting the nation's needs.

The Washington Post, highlighting a profile of Obama in the current New Yorker, reported that he was asked about "a president's limited power to effect change." His answer brought us directly back to Dr. King.

Even the greatest presidents, like Abraham Lincoln, had to operate in the currents of history, the Post reported Obama as saying. It took "another hundred and fifty years before African-Americans had anything approaching formal equality, much less real equality. ... At the end of the day, we're part of a long-running story. We just try to get our paragraph right."

And, in fairness, Barack Obama has fought his best to get his paragraph right. Universal health care, concern for the environment, attempts to re-industrialize America, criticism of the "small wars" syndrome. Much of this was new -- and most of it is right.

So we celebrate Dr. King's patience and determination, his view of the long human struggle for justice and equality, and his honesty about the realities of the world one faces -- and, yes, we do blessedly discover his best qualities in other leaders today. I can think of no better birthday present. Happy Birthday, Dr. King!

Well if O'Bomber also qualifies as being a peace-maker,what the hell is he doing in arming the Syrian Opposition to the gills and leaving Iran out of the peace talks?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Jan 2014 06:15

First post's timeline:

Timeline-Case of Khobragade and Richard

Looks like a mess gone horribly worng. Its a "drift into failure" UB if you get my take.
.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 22 Jan 2014 06:17

what the hell is he doing in arming the Syrian Opposition to the gills

Come on! The AQ needs the advanced weaponry. Pakistan is a Poor Country, can't afford to keep sending Stinger missiles to A'stan and Eyeraq to shoot down American helicopters. Now with Syrian "rebel" aid, they can rise again.

The Syria endgame is obvious: The AQ rebels will "win" and take over the rubble of Damascus. Then the Hezbollah and the AQ and the Hamas will all get together for a Loya Jirga and agree that A**ah wants them to unite against the common enemy - The Great Satan. The Israelis will bomb the rubble of Damascus again. The Einsteins in Foggy Bottom will look grave and shake their heads in concern and the empty cavities inside will go into resonance.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 22 Jan 2014 06:25

FWIW (These may already be posted) but for background of SR:
http://www.outlookindia.com/printarticle.aspx?288935
Daily Mail
times of India
Timeline of Devyani Khobragade case
Mail - Decoding the Khobragade controversy
( From what is reported - After running away SR lived with "strangers within the Indian community", Sikh temple. contacted Safe Horizon, which took Richard to the State Departments)

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 22 Jan 2014 06:38

ramana, AmbherG, that Reuters time line is from Dec. 21. Raises many questions: 1. Where was SR from disappearance until contacting Sussman? That is from June 23 to about Dec. 11. How did she know where to find the Khalistanis? Who had the resources to house an illegal all that time? Esp. someone who was most certainly not abused or traumatized etc? That had to be someone who "had it in" for the Injuns, hey? I think she was being coached. The "SR had to be escorted out by NYPD" says that there was a catfight - probably (just guessing) DK laid down the riot act and pointed out what happens to ppl on official passport who go AWOL. The Philosophy Prof's role in this whole thing conveys that he spends much of his time wine-tasting - he seems pretty 404 to have complained to police, then failed to provide a written complaint, etc.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 22 Jan 2014 06:43

Bade wrote:SR has been reported as having Kerala origin, but the letter she wrote home was in Hindi.

My objection to that letter is "Has the provenance been verified?". I would not harp on it further though as that line of thinking is out of bounds as far as US illegally arresting an Indian DCG goes.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Jan 2014 06:49

Looks like August 2013 something changed (for suddenly in SD is supporting her in September) and SR got full SD support.

Was this when other US diplomats got involved?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Jan 2014 06:57

We need a table with six columns to digest the timelines:
Date/Time Khobragade Richard SD India Comments

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 22 Jan 2014 07:01

The kinder&Gentler version of the arrest is laughable. If they knew they could find her at the school at a certain time, they also knew where she lived. The arrest at the school was obviously so that she could not cite diplomatic immunity and refuse to go along. So they knew they didn't have a leg to stand on, that she did have immunity. IOW it was a kidnapping, not a legal arrest. India should file charges for false arrest/ kidnapping.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 22 Jan 2014 07:06

Key date is April 2013 when SR initiated the "work outside" demand. First entrapment attempt. If DK had agreed, they could have arrested her on that, hey?

Note that Zeya took charge in March. THAT is the key date.

April attempt did not work, so SR waited until DK took a trip in June.

July to Sep. was time for Sussman to conspire with SD. Normal time for preparing a case, maybe also to get Kerry's OK. I tell you this is all tied to the White House announcement of the New Improved Fed Domestic Worker Law.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Jan 2014 07:24

UB sure we are not falling for hindsight and story bias?

member_28380 · Post by **member_28380** » 22 Jan 2014 07:27

Hello every one
Long time reader, posting first time.

Is the Indian government going to arrest or file charges against the American Embassy School administrator who apparently does not have diplomatic immunity?

What are the consequences? How will US retaliate if India proceeds???
just curious.

Just to clarify I 100% sympathize with the Indian govt's position in this matter. The US has shown itself to be out of control international bully (once again). This is not about revenge. Americans have displayed their false moral superiority in a vulgar fashion. Why not implement the rule of the law in this matter?

vasu raya · Post by **vasu raya** » 22 Jan 2014 07:43

SR's FIL will have answers on how he talked to May's about the 'intimidation' of SR's family by UK on the unofficial channel while an inside clique in the SD was covering the same on the official channel, sort of corroboration which ultimately instigated the BDS to overdo it? that instigation was also a reason why the SR family was evacuated.

anyways, since there is no trafficking charge on DK, and the T3 visas were issued by mistake, we should ask for visa cancellation (extradition?) of the whole SR family and if they still insist on keeping them we probably are dealing with spies

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 22 Jan 2014 07:54

FYI: Meanwhile recently (last week) an Indian-American businesswoman Shamina Singh has been nominated by Obama to a key administration post - (board of directors) of the Corporation for National and Community Service.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 22 Jan 2014 08:08

ramana:

hindsight and story bias

The essence of any good CT!

I think the story makes sense, and let Zeya & Co explain to the Congressional investigation that they did not have a conspiracy. This has way too much organization to have been a random "Oh, now that we checked, we see that they lied on the form!" explanation for why the case was filed.

Now DK's lawyer has said that the INR 30,000 per month was IN ADDITION TO what was paid in the US, and that the US pay exceeded the minimum wage. I wonder if he has submitted the proof of these, in which case the PB case comes down like a house of cards. Because there is no case of lying on the form, if actually the minimum wage was paid.

The last remaining refuge for PB is the 109 hours per week. I think for a live-in, with DK's 2 small kids, this aspect is going to be thrown out by any sensible judge. We already know that the "she had no days off except to go to church on Sunday" is completely bogus because SR asked to be allowed to work outside on her days off.

That clinches it for me: SR lied. She was neither overworked, nor had any lack of regular days/time off. Once you realize that, the rest of our story fits, and it becomes a clear CT case where SR was at minimum incited to complain, and lie through her teeth. SR's M-in-Law is also quoted by the media as saying that SR was determined to stay back and work in the US, which means that her application for temp. visa was also bogus, she is the one who lied.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 22 Jan 2014 08:08

UlanBatori wrote:Key date is April 2013 when SR initiated the "work outside" demand. First entrapment attempt. If DK had agreed, they could have arrested her on that, hey?

Why on earth would DK agree to that ? SR was on an official passport. Such a passport cannot be used for any sort of work role in another country; the holder is a government representative and does what (s)he is required to do by the sending government.

There's a fundamental inconsistency with a receiving state attempting to impose any local law upon the holder of an official passport, because such a passport holder is NOT there in an individual capacity at all. They are an agent of the sending state, who restricts several freedoms and imposes requirements regarding behavior.

It's not like a regular passport, wherein sending state requests the receiving state to accept the person within their shores, and the holder is in turn free to do whatever they like provided they follow all local laws.

No aspect of US law in this matter is applicable unless they accept full reciprocal treatment, i.e. limited scope of immunity and every other constraint imposed by any local law that supercedes VCCR/VCDR. To discuss US law in detail is a distraction; as long as 'do as I say, not as I do' exists, effectively, the US law is an ass.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 22 Jan 2014 08:32

Why on earth would DK agree to that ?

It was an extortion attempt. Based on experience of prior Indian consulate ppl who were subjected to extortion, maybe the conspirators hoped that they could bully DK into closing her eyes at this, and they could then trap her saying Look At Foreign (Indian) Diplomat Deliberating Violating Our Laws! Note my firm hypothesis that the whole intent was to highlight and tom-tom the WH's new Federal Domestic Worker hoopla. Finding an Indian "maid" in blatant violation by allowing work outside, would have made the news.

But it did not work because DK said

So they went to Plan B, which took a couple of months to cook up, with the Khalistanis lined up.

Any luck from NYC members on finding the "Sikh Temple" involved? Are they Khalistanis? If it was a law-abiding Sikh temple, I think they would have contacted the Indian Consulate and arranged for an amicable transfer of SR back, or something. Harboring an "escapee" on an official passport is just way too risky in today's US, (a usual temple would have been in danger of a CIS raid) so either one had to be a scofflaw or have official protection or both. "Khalistani" fits that well, and PB's role there becomes VERY suspicious.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 22 Jan 2014 08:42

I think it is a case of pandering to vote banks and show that unemployment is reducing. There would be around 1000-2000 DCG and higher level foreign diplomats in NYC in need of live-in maids. 1000-2000 high paying jobs right there. There was a precedence in one case where WH forced ExIm bank to withdraw financial guarantees on behalf of American corporations to a coal power plant of Reliance followed by a reversal when Senator Reed pointed out a few hundred (or thousand) - it was probably about 600 - jobs were at risk.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 22 Jan 2014 08:49

Most of the live-in or other 40hrs onlee maids are immigrants legal and illegal. So why should a few thousand of them getting "justice" in the eyes of the law make a difference to the 20% (?) unemployed Americans.

member_28352 · Post by **member_28352** » 22 Jan 2014 08:51

BTW did the Amirkhans ever release the information regarding as to how much they pay their slaves err servants in India. From what I've read in the previous posts apparently it's a system of begari where they have to provide one person for their service in lieu of getting to live in the servant quarters. I think the servants are also passed on from master to master. In that case can't a case be made out under IPC370 (buying and selling a person as a slave) against one of these diplomutts? Prima facie it looks like that the Massans are availing of services from people without paying any salaries.

member_28380 · Post by **member_28380** » 22 Jan 2014 08:51

Amber G. wrote:FYI: Meanwhile recently (last week) an Indian-American businesswoman Shamina Singh has been nominated by Obama to a key administration post - (board of directors) of the Corporation for National and Community Service.

Frankly very irrelevant.

I used to think anti-Americanism is overhyped, this incident has been an eye opener for me. Very biased racist media, and the comments are even worse. Just so much racism. I used to buy slogans like India-US are natural allies, democracies etc. Not any more.
Crude, racist bullies frankly.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 22 Jan 2014 08:57

Bade wrote:Most of the live-in or other 40hrs onlee maids are immigrants legal and illegal. So why should a few thousand of them getting "justice" in the eyes of the law make a difference to the 20% (?) unemployed Americans.

Logic is to create a few thousand jobs here a few hundred there and we are talking a couple of percentage point drop in the unemployment rate, stock markets go up a little. Good talking points when the leaders go hat in hand to $1K or $5K per plate dinner fund raisers. Who cares what the situation on the ground is?

vic · Post by **vic** » 22 Jan 2014 09:19

Munna Govt is go slow on US school, club and embassy unlike what IFS wants. Probably Munna is afraid that Massa may release some damning information on the dumbo & waitress in an election year. I firmly believe that the gang rape took place as SD believed Munna will play along but IFS lobby rocked the boat. Till date Munna Govt has taken no effective steps.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 22 Jan 2014 09:44

'Perplexed' India says US probably still most important ally

"I won't underplay this incident, I won't overplay this incident. I think we need to see it in perspective," S. Jaishankar said in an interview. "I think we are in the midst of working this one out."

Jaishankar said India was "perplexed" by the decisions of US authorities to arrest and strip-search 39-year-old Devyani Khobragade, India's deputy consul in New York, after she was accused of visa fraud and underpaying her maid.

"There was a fair measure of anger about both the substance of the problem and the way it was handled," he said. "It was not just done publicly; frankly it was done appallingly."
...
...
"Frankly, it's probably the most important relationship," he said. "We are not holding up business, or Pentagon dealings, or congressional dealings ... or science programs and saying, 'They don't get done until things get sorted out.'"
...
Until the issue was resolved, Jaishankar said, the level of immunity enjoyed by US consular officials in India would be reduced to exactly the level granted in the United States.

"Since our consular officials have no immunity against felonies, US consular officials do not have immunity against serious crimes in India," he said.
...

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 22 Jan 2014 10:52

Amber G. wrote:FYI: Meanwhile recently (last week) an Indian-American businesswoman Shamina Singh has been nominated by Obama to a key administration post - (board of directors) of the Corporation for National and Community Service.

Frankly, I am now worried what this will bring.

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 22 Jan 2014 10:56

putnanja wrote:'Perplexed' India says US probably still most important ally

Until the issue was resolved, Jaishankar said, the level of immunity enjoyed by US consular officials in India would be reduced to exactly the level granted in the United States.

This sentence caught my eye. Why does India maintain reciprocity only as an exception and then revert back to original programing?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 22 Jan 2014 11:21

in other words world over it is called poodling,
but we call it "our culture"

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 22 Jan 2014 11:30

the control khan has over its people via its media is frightening. even after the disasters of iraq war that was sold to public by a pliant media (the biggest example among the many)..people still fall for the establishment line that is pushed by the so-called "free media". the massa mainstream media is free only in narrow domestic areas and that too because of vested interests ponying up money to push certain domestic agendas (typically republicans and religious conservatives push US domestic political stuff)...but most things foreign affairs, there's only one line that flows from top to bottom in the news distribution pyramid.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 22 Jan 2014 14:38

Here is a rhetorical poser - take it as a prediction of something that I foresee will happen - something that requires a little thinking.

The Khobragade episode appears to me to have been, from the American viewpoint, a rescue of a woman from slavery. By all accounts, the woman and her family were known to US embassy officials who later played a role in the "evacuation" of Sangeeta Richard's husband and child from India to the US. Ostensibly, the evacuation and the arrest of Khobragade were part of a rescue from slavery.

Now if you search for information on slavery the following information comes up
1. About half of all deemed slaves in the world are in India
2. Hindus are blamed for the caste system, which in turn is blamed for slavery in India
3. Many organizations purporting to fight slavery in India (such as IJM - International Justice Mission) are funded by church groups in the US

The association between Hindus, caste and slavery is easy to pick up on the www and it is possible that Wayne and Alicia may too came "pre loaded" with this information.

While organizations such as IJM purport to fight slavery "within the framework of the laws of the country in which slavery is found to occur", the Khobragade case was an attempt to combat deemed slavery of an Indian in the US in an event that subverted both Indian laws and International law. The first shot has been fired to "remove the scourge of Indian slavery" from the US, even though it was botched. And Indian slavery is clearly and repeatedly associated with the caste system and therefore Hindus (the fact that many are vegetarian is an interesting and related fact, but I digress).

The Khobragade case was one of indicting a Hindu woman in the US for slavery although it was not stated as such. It was in fact a high status Hindu woman (possibly (and wrongly) assumed to have been of a privileged caste) who was alleged to have enslaved a low status Indian woman, who happens to have a Christian name.

It is well known that caste can be determined by names. I can sit with a directory of US telephone numbers and make a good and fairly accurate guess of the caste background of Indian Americans or their ancestors using family names. If I was Pakistani, Khalistani or simply a religious missionary rabble rouser in the US - maybe even an overzealous attorney, I would target Indian Americans in the US from scheduled castes and encourage them to make a case of discrimination or slavery against Indians who bear high caste names in instances where the two individuals have worked together and allege that the high caste Hindu Indian has brought caste discrimination to the US and used that to say or do something to the lower caste Indian American.

I am not writing this to give people ideas. I am not needed for that. But I write it as a sort of warning - to me the Khobragade case was simply the first step of pulling down someone to make a point and make money in the process. The US excels at that. The caste issue has been openly addressed in India and Indian laws are there to deal with them for better of for worse. But with the entire world blaming Hindus and caste for slavery, a caste war in the US under the guise of slavery and discrimination cannot be far behind. The next time round it won't be botched. They will pick on someone small and screw his life.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 22 Jan 2014 15:08

US should set up military base in India to tackle Pakistan-based terror groups: Think tank

The US should discuss with India after its general elections the possibility of basing American military and intelligence operatives in the country to address threats posed by Pakistan-based terror groups in a post- Afghanistan context, a think-tank here has said.

A special report titled 'Reorienting US Pakistan Strategy: From Af-Pak to Asia' by the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) also recommends that the US should launch a new diplomatic dialogue with China, India and Pakistan to reduce prospects for regional tension and violence.

"Starting with the national security adviser to the prime minister of India, senior US national security officials should begin to discuss options for significantly expanded counter-terror cooperation with their Indian counterparts, up to and including the possibility of basing US military and/or intelligence operatives in India to address Pakistan-based terrorist threats in a post-Afghanistan context," the report's author, Daniel Markey, who is CFR senior fellow for India, Pakistan, and South Asia, said.

Markey acknowledged such conversations between Washington and New Delhi would be "politically sensitive" and so should begin only after the next Indian government is elected in the spring.

"If diplomatic discussions make progress, the Pentagon should work with members of the US intelligence community to develop specific implementation plans for on-the-ground operations in India," he said.

The basis for Markey's argument is that while Washington and Islamabad have found common cause in fighting against Pakistan's homegrown Taliban insurgents, Pakistan has been unwilling to tackle threats posed by the Haqqani network or LeT forcing Washington to reconsider the wisdom of remaining heavily dependent on US personnel and facilities now based in Afghanistan.

"Over the long run (and perhaps much sooner if Washington is unable to negotiate a satisfactory bilateral security agreement with Kabul), maintaining a foothold in landlocked Afghanistan as a means to deal with Pakistan-based security threats is likely to be extraordinarily difficult and costly. In light of Pakistan's geographic location, India is the obvious US alternative to Afghanistan," he said.

In recent years, Washington and New Delhi have on their part taken steps to expand their counter-terror cooperation with the intention of building defences against future attacks like the Lashkar-e-Taiba strike on Mumbai in November 2008.

The report said that given persistent terrorist threats and Pakistan's "clear lack of capacity and, in some cases, will" to tackle them, Washington would need to ramp up its efforts in India considerably, including even to the point of establishing military and intelligence facilities on Indian soil.

No question of granting the Americans a base, etc period. Not for this or any other reason.

If US could not tackle Haqqani network or LeT from withing Afghanistan what are the chances they will be successful operating out of India. The situation in Af-Pak being used to justify a base in India!! Was that the plan all along and Af-Pak situation is just a ruse?

BTW doesn't the Indian security forces have a better success rate compared to the Americans?