Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

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Nilesh Oak
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby Nilesh Oak » 24 Nov 2013 10:13

Those who might be interested may download this from Academia.edu. (Abracadabra by my friend Wim Boorsboom)

https://www.academia.edu/1513607/_Alpha ... n_Alphabet

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby Arjun » 30 Nov 2013 22:18


ramana
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby ramana » 01 Dec 2013 10:06

Arjun wrote:Varaha Avatar in an entirely new light ?

Humans emerged from male pig and female chimp, world's top geneticist says



http://www.macroevolution.net/human-ori ... pmw19K-18F

I didnt know there are problems with Gorilla Evolution.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby peter » 03 Dec 2013 04:53

venug wrote:
Surprised that venu has thrased anything. He has not made any effort to look at various mantras given in Rigveda connected with these deities mentioned on Mitanni treaties. A person who does not know their own heritage is not capable of thrashing anything.


:), I gave you examples to show you how meaningless your insistence that "Mittanis read the Vedas" argument is, you turned Nelson's eye to them. I ask you if Mittanis indeed "Read" the vedas why is that they didn't quote the slokas and hymns diectly as every hindus does in every auspicious event and engagement. You would rather draw your conclusions based on assumptions and some relationships based on which God names is listed first. I also countered why such a listing of God names is meaningless.

Yes heritage, you are the person who is of the opinion that Mitanis either carried the Vedas and read them at leisure or had traveled to a guru in India and had studied under them, and this is coming from a person who knows about Indian heritage :). But let me also acknowledge, I don't know Indian heritage, so now I am incapable of seeing how illogical your arguments are?

I am not surprised. You have not investigated any mantra from Rigved which talks about these four Gods on Mitanni treaties. How would you understand what Mitannis did? Your arguments unfortunately make little sense till you read what is written in Rigveda.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby member_22872 » 03 Dec 2013 08:02

ok.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby Murugan » 06 Dec 2013 06:57

PIE walas are active

Telling Tales in Proto-Indo-European

http://archaeology.org/exclusives/artic ... hers-fable

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby Prem Kumar » 24 Dec 2013 22:17

Check this out: new results from a Japanese team researching the Indus Valley Civilization.

http://t.co/14dD84N3AY

Some key points:

a)
They learned that sand dunes in the area were shaped by a great river long before the Indus civilization existed.


Implying that at least some IVC sites were post-Saraswati drying up. If so, doesnt it push back the Vedic era even further back in time?

b)
All of this found that sea levels were around 2 meters higher and the coastline was much deeper inland. This suggests that many of the ruins in the area were along the ancient shoreline and that this part of the Indus civilization was dependent on the ocean.


Many IVC Sites were located closer to the sea than they are today, enabling maritime trade with Mesopotamia etc

c)
The most notable find was of three round pendants of baked clay. Each has a hole in its center and the impression of an animal resembling a unicorn. The reverse sides have different Indus script on them. Because the same animal seal was pressed into each of them, Osada speculates that "they may have served as a passport for those traveling between different regions


It will be interesting to dry & decipher the Indus script at the back of these unicorn seals. These are very likely to be "passports" - therefore there may be a common pattern to the script behind them

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby Yagnasri » 24 Dec 2013 22:27

Abhigyana mudra? Seal of Individual is well recorded in stories of ancient and historical times.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby johneeG » 25 Dec 2013 10:58

johneeG wrote:Latin is very much influenced by Sanskruth. Take the good old months' names:

September, October, November, December.

September -> Saptham-vara (7th turn)
October -> Ashtam-vara (8th turn)
November -> Navam-vara (9th turn)
December -> Dasham-vara (10th turn)

'varam' means 'again'. It denotes a repetition. In India, one finds the word 'varam' is used for the days of the week as in Shani-vara(i.e. Saturnday or Saturday) because days of the week also get repeated.

'vara' becomes 'ber' in the latin version. Actually, there is a suthra in Sanskruth grammer called 'ba-va-yor abedhah'. It means 'ba' and 'va' are indistinct and can be used to replace each other.

Originally, September, October, November and December were 7th, 8th, 9th and 10th months respectively. Later, newer months were added. For example, August and July.

Original Roman calendar:
Calendar of Romulus

Roman writers attributed the original Roman calendar to Romulus, the founder of Rome around 753 BC. The Romulus calendar had ten months with the spring equinox in the first month:

Calendar of Romulus
Martius (31 days)
Aprilis (30 days)
Maius (31 days)
Iunius (30 days)
Quintilis [2] (31 days)
Sextilis (30 days)
September[3] (30 days)
October (31 days)
November (30 days)
December (30 days)

wiki

Note that sextilis -> shat(6th)
Also note that the Calendar starts from Spring Equinox. This is also based on Hindhuism.

In India, Hindhu new year starts on Yuga-adhi(near spring equinox). In Thelugu and Kannada, Ugadhi is celebrated at the time. In Marathi, it is called Gudi Padwa. At almost the same time, Vikram Samvath new year also comes.

P.N. Oak in one of his books(I think 'Some Missing Chapters of World History') says that the word X-mas to denote Christmas is also based on the above.

He says that December was the 10th month of Roman Calender. And it is derived from Dasham(10th) in Sanskruth. In Roman notation, '10' is represented by 'X'.

Dasham-vara->December-> 10th month -> X-mas.

He says that the word 'mas' taken directly from the sanskruth word 'masa'(sanskruth for month). In sanskruth, 'masa' means 'month'.

So, X-mas, he says meant a 10th month which was celebrated as a festival.


Later, the church usurped it and gave it christian coloring. Thats why the church narrative is incoherent. It was not the only hijacking by the church.


johneeG wrote:In Hindhi also, 'vaaram' of Sanskruth becomes 'baar'. So, in Hindhi, it would be
Saathvi-baar -> 7th time ->
Aaatvi-baar -> 8th time
Navi-baar -> 9th time
Dasvi-baar -> 10th time

Shashti means 6th in Sanskruth. In Hindhi, Chatti means 6th.

See, how close they are phonetically:
Sanskruth -> Hindhi -> Latin
Shasti -> Chatti -> Sextilis
Saptham-vaaram -> Saathvi-baar -> Septem-ber
Ashtam-vaaram -> Aaatvi-baar -> Octo-ber
Navam-vaaram -> Navi-baar -> Novem-ber
Dasham-vaaram -> Dasvi-baar -> Decem-ber

Link

I am intrigued by the custom of worshiping tree during X mas. What might be the reason behind the origin of this custom?

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby ArmenT » 25 Dec 2013 11:12

johneeG wrote:I am intrigued by the custom of worshiping tree during X mas. What might be the reason behind the origin of this custom?

It was a pagan ritual at one time, that got transformed by German christians into a christian symbol. It got spread through Europe thanks to German nobility that married into other countries monarchies and soon the nobles and then the commons followed suit.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby Prem Kumar » 29 Dec 2013 11:12

By the way, I was just reminded of the similarity between Christmas tree & the Kalpa-Vriksha of Indian mythology. The latter is a wish fulfilling divine tree & so is the former. There is a pretty good chance that the "pagan" rituals of Europe were influenced by the Kalpa-Vriksha and absorbed it in their mythology. This was subsequently digested by Chtistianity

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby Prem Kumar » 29 Dec 2013 11:12

A recent article from Koenraad Elst about dating based on Atharva Veda etc. Take it FWIW:

Chronology and the Upanishads

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby krisna » 05 Jan 2014 21:15

Just a small observation from me-
In ISRO dhaaaga came across angara family of rockets from Russia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angara_%28rocket_family%29
word Angara stuck to me as an Indian name-
did a simple search on chahcha.
Angara is a river in Russsia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angara_River
Baikal is supposed to be derived from sanskrit. http://vediccafe.blogspot.com/2013/03/b ... -lake.html
Angara is sanskrit word for fire within. https://www.google.com/search?client=ub ... 8&oe=utf-8

remember BG Tilak saying about Arctic areas as home of aryans etc.though it could more likley the migration from India or expansion of Indian folks there.
is there some conncetion

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby Prem » 07 Jan 2014 07:27

How a hunch led to stunning claim on Buddha’s birth date
Do they know which Buddha ?

KATHMANDU: The two archaeologists had a hunch that the Buddha’s birthplace in southern Nepal held secrets that could transform how the world understood the emergence and spread of Buddhism.Their pursuit would eventually see them excavate the sacred site of Lumbini as monks prayed nearby, leading to the stunning claim that the Buddha was born in the sixth century BC, two centuries earlier than thought..“My belief was that there was another cultural deposit below, which we had not uncovered,” the 62-year-old said.The Buddha’s birthplace was lost and overgrown by jungle before its rediscovery in 1896, when the presence of a third century BC pillar bearing inscriptions allowed historians to identify it as Lumbini.
“In 2010, our first year there, we were pretty much the handmaidens to the conservators,” said Coningham. “The Eureka moment came in 2011, when we came across a brick temple located below the existing Asokan temple and below that a sort of void.Over the next two years, archaeologists, geophysicists and hired workmen from Nepal and Britain worked on the site, digging in the presence of meditating monks and nuns.“It was a very moving experience to dig for traces while pilgrims prayed and paid homage,” Acharya said.They dug for a few weeks each year and sent the samples to laboratories for analysis.The archaeologists also found holes, apparently meant to secure posts, in the open void below the brick temple.“The intact holes suggested that whoever had built the brick temple had taken care not to damage the ancient structure below, suggesting the site was always considered holy,” Coningham said.Lab tests confirmed the existence of roots within the void below the brick structure, suggesting it may have been a shrine where a tree once grew, possibly the hardwood sal tree under which many believe the Buddha was born.The discovery, revealed in November, sparked huge excitement, but some historians have urged caution, saying the ancient tree shrine could have been built by pre-Buddhist believers. “The worship of trees, often at simple altars, was a ubiquitous feature of ancient Indian religions,” Julia Shaw, a lecturer in South Asian archaeology at University College London told National Geographic’s online edition.According to Coningham, however, if the Buddhists had appropriated the tree shrine from non-Buddhists, the site would not have survived relatively unscathed.Much of what is known about the Buddha’s life has its origins in oral tradition. The earliest decipherable written records in the region, the inscriptions of India’s Buddhist emperor Asoka, are dated about 250BC.Prior to this discovery, most scholars said that the Buddha lived during the fourth century BC, founding a religion that now counts 500 million followers.“It’s one of the great puzzles, this discovery reveals the endurance of oral traditions,” Coningham said.“This is one of those very rare times when tradition, belief and archaeology all come together.”

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby Nilesh Oak » 07 Jan 2014 08:59

^
And while likes of Julia Shaw may want to caution in one direction (which is fair), I must point out that assuming this sixth century BCE structure does refer to a structure erected in Buddha's memory, all it says is that Buddha was at least as early as Sixth Century BCE. He still can be (in principle) long before sixth century BCE.

This evidence does not point to earlier period. All I am saying is - this evidence (excavation) has nothing to say about exact period of Buddha, only that He was known in sixth century BCE (ceteris paribus)

----------

"Hunch" is how Troy was discovered.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby johneeG » 13 Jan 2014 10:55

The words like aali(or allah), akka, amma, appa*, ...etc are used to denote feminine in Indian languages, AFAIK. There is some speculation that malsic allah was originally a female arapic pagan deity. (Remember the saytan verses where Mo supposedly floated the theory that other pagan goddesses are the daugters of hallA?)

Appa means father in Thamil, if I am not wrong.

Appa -> Ayya -> Arya.

johneeG wrote:Pithr(Sanskrit-Father)->Pitha(Hindi-Father)->Padre(Italian/Spanish-Father)->Pater(Latin-Father)->Pedda(Telugu-Elder)->Pedar(Persian-Father)->Pere(French-Father)
Pater(Latin-Father)->Pedar(Persian-Father)->Father(English-Father)
Pater(Latin-Father)->Bater->Vater(German-Father)->Validi(Arabic->Father)

Arya(Sanskrit-Respected)->Ayya(Telugu-Father)->Appa(Tamil-Father)->Abba(Arabic/Korean-Father)
Appa(Tamil-Father)->Papa->Pai(Portuguese-Father)

Papa(Pappa)->Bappa(Marathi-Father)->Bapu->Baba(Chinese-Father)

Thatha(Sanskrit-Father)->Thatha(Telugu-Grand Father)->O Tats(Russian-Father)
Thatha(Telugu-Grand Father)->Dhadha(Hindi-Grand Father)->Dada(Father).

Amba(Sanskrit-Mother)->Amma(Telugu/Tamil-Mother)->Ammi(Arabic-Mother)->Mama(many langs- Mother)->Ma(Hindi-Mother)->Eom Ma(Korean-Mother)

Mathr(Sanskrit-Mother)-Matha(Hindi-Mother)->Madar(Persian-Mother)->Mother(English-Mother)

Sutha(Sanskrit-Son)->Zadha(Persian-Son).

Duhitha(Sanskrit-Daughter)->Daughter(English-Daughter)->Doxtar(Persian-Daughter).


Link to original post

johneeG wrote:Also,
suna(Sanskruth-son) -> son(english-son)
pilla(Thelugu-young one) -> pilla(Hindhi-puppy)->fille(french-son/daughter)

Arya is used in all languages(especially Indian languages) with or without corruption. Ayya(Thelugu), Appa(Tamil), Abba(Persian), Papa(Latin), Bapu(Gujrathi), Baba(Arabic), Bappa(Marathi), Pappa, Pai(Portuguese),...etc are all corruptions of Arya. Arya was used as honorific for elders(generally father). Its meaning is 'noble'.

If you were to talk in Sanskruth and want to call someone respectfully without using their name, what would you say?
Arya or Deva. These are used as honorifics in Sanskruth. All other languages being corruptions of Sanskruth, they also use the word Arya in various forms.

-------
Edit:
BTW, several abrahamic characters have their names ending in 'ayya'. For example,
Elijiah
Yehoshuah(Joshua)
Ovadiah
Achiah
Azaryah
Hoshea
Zephaniah
Uriah
Neriah
Sharyah
Machsiyah
Hagai
Zechariah
Mordechai

All the above names end in 'ayya' kind of sound. Is it possible that 'ayya' is a suffix to their original names and 'ayya' is a honorific which is a corruption of 'arya'? In Thelugu, 'ayya' is a honorific and corruption of 'arya'.


Link

Also checkout the theory of 'Babel Tower':
Wiki:
The Tower of Babel (Hebrew: מגדל בבל‎ Migdal Bavel Arabic: برج بابل‎ Borj Baabel) forms the focus of a story told in the Book of Genesis of the Bible.[1] According to the story, a united humanity of the generations following the Great Flood, speaking a single language and migrating from the east, came to the land of Shinar (Hebrew: שנער‎), where they resolved to build a city with a tower "whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth."[2]

God came down to see what they did and said: "They are one people and have one language, and nothing will be withheld from them which they purpose to do." "Come, let us go down and confound their speech." And so God scattered them upon the face of the Earth, and confused their languages, so that they would not be able to return to each other, and they left off building the city, which was called Babel "because God there confounded the language of all the Earth".[3]

Link

Eastern people speaking one language migrated to Shinar where a flood came and scattered them. From east? Where could that be?
Possible options are:
a) China
b) India
c) Persia

They were speaking one language. What could that language be?
Possible eastern languages are:
a) Mandarin
b) Sanskruth
c) Persian

Which is the most probable option?
I think Sanskruth & India are the most probable option.

-----------------------
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X-posting: Link
The word 'Dhravida' is not found in either Vedhas or Valmiki Ramayana. Dhravida is mentioned in MB as just another clan along with several other clans including Keralas, Andhras, ...etc. Andhras are mentioned in MB and Valmiki Ramayana.

'Dasyu' means robbers or thieves.

--------
TonySoprano wrote:Krishna was Invented to Rival Buddha



Ulta chor kotwal ko daaten?

Everyone has been stealing/borrowing from Hinduism, yet they turn around and call names to Hinduism. Thats funny.

Actually, what has been happening is that Hinduism is the tree with several branches, some of the branches break away and want to become a separate tree by themselves. In trying to do so, they copy Hinduism and then claim that Hinduism copied from them. Just look at churches with dhwajasthambas in south India, and you will understand how this phenomenon starts. Church even has a name for it: inculturation.

Buddha's bio copies motifs heavily from MB, ramayana(bio of Rama) and Bhagavatham(bio of Krushna). All the figures(like Indhra, Kubera, Vyasa, ...etc) are copied by Buddhism from Hindu literature. And deliberately created as spoofs.

So many people seem to fall in the trap of thinking that Hinduism tried to swallow Buddhism by making Buddha part of Hindu pantheon. That is complete BS. I think the more probable thing is that Buddhists took a character from Hindu epics and invested it with a bogus bio by copying the motifs from Hindu literature. The same thing happened with Christ figure. A character from jewish literature is taken and is invested with a bogus bio by copying the motifs from Buddhist literature.

Buddhists had tried to distort many Hindu scriptures by creating imitations. This can be seen in jataka tales. One example is where Rama's relation with Seetha amma is presented as incest in jataka tales. All of this is done to fool the masses. Very similar to EJ missionaries who try to fool the masses by spewing all kinds of nonsense to convert the people.

Following is the past-life story of Vidhura in MB in Adhi Parva:
SECTION 107

(Sambhava Parva continued)
"Janamejaya said, 'What did the god of justice do for which he was cursed? And who was the Brahma-rushi from whose curse the god had to be born in the womb of a Shudhra?'
"Vaisampayana said, 'There was a Brahmana known by the name of Mandavya. He was conversant with all duties and was devoted to Dharma, Sathya and Tapas. The great ascetic used to sit at the entrance of his hermitage at the foot of a tree, with his arms upraised in the observance of the vow of silence. And as he sat there for years together, one day there came into his asylum a number of robbers laden with spoil. And, O bull in Bharatha's family (lineage), those robbers were then being pursued by a superior body as guardians of the peace. The thieves, on entering that asylum, hid their booty there, and in fear concealed themselves thereabout before the guards came. But scarcely had they thus concealed themselves when the constables in pursuit came to the spot. The latter, observing the Rushi sitting under the tree, questioned him, O king, saying, 'O best of Dhvijas, which way have the thieves taken? Point it out to us so that we may follow it without loss of time.' Thus questioned by the guardians of peace the ascetic, O king, said not a word, good or otherwise, in reply. The officers of the king, however, on searching that asylum soon discovered the thieves concealed thereabout together with the plunder. Upon this, their suspicion fell upon the Muni, and accordingly they seized him with the thieves and brought him before the king. The king sentenced him to be executed along with his supposed associates. And the officers, acting in ignorance, carried out the sentence by impaling the celebrated Rushi. And having impaled him, they went to the king with the booty they had recovered. But the virtuous Rushi, though impaled and kept without food, remained in that state for a long time without dying. And the Rushi by his ascetic power not only preserved his life but summoned other Rushi to the scene. And they came there in the night in the forms of birds, and beholding him engaged in ascetic meditation though fixed on that stake, became plunged into grief. And telling that best of Dhvijas, who they were, they asked him saying, 'O knowledgable one, we desire to know what has been your sin for which you have thus been made to suffer the tortures of impalement!'"

SECTION 108

(Sambhava Parva continued)
"Vaisampayana said, 'Thus asked, the tiger among Munis then answered those Rushis of ascetic wealth, 'Whom shall I blame for this? In fact, none else (than my own self) has offended against me!' After this, O monarch, the officers of justice, seeing him alive, informed the king of it. The latter hearing what they said, consulted with his advisers, and came to the place and began to pacify the Rushi fixed on the stake. And the king said, 'O you best of Rushis, I have offended against you in ignorance. I beseech you to pardon me for the same. It behoves you not to be angry with me.' Thus addressed by the king, the Muni was pacified. And beholding him free from wrath, the king took him up with the stake and endeavoured to extract it from his body. But not succeeding therein, he cut it off at the point just outside the body. The Muni, with a portion of the stake within his body, walked about, and in that state practised the austerest of penances and conquered numberless regions unattainable by others. And for the circumstances of a part of the stake being within his body, he came to be known in the three worlds by the name of Ani-Mandavya (Mandavya with the stake within). And one day that Vipra acquainted with the highest truth of religion went to the abode of the god of justice. And beholding the god there seated on his throne, the Rushi reproached him and said, 'What, pray, is that sinful act committed by me unconsciously, for which I am bearing this punishment? O, tell me soon, and behold the power of my asceticism.'

"The god of justice, thus questioned, replied, 'O you of ascetic wealth, a little insect was once pierced by you on a blade of grass. You bear now the consequence of the act. O Rushi, as a gift, however small, multiplies in respect of its religious merits, so a sinful act multiplies in respect of the woe it brings in its train.' On hearing this, Ani-Mandavya asked, 'O tell me truly when this act was committed by me. Told in reply by the god of justice that he had committed it, when a child, the Rushi said, 'That shall not be a sin which may be done by a child up to the twelfth year of his age from birth. The scriptures shall not recognise it as sinful. The punishment you have inflicted on me for such a venial offence has been disproportionate in severity. The killing of a Brahmana involves a sin that is heavier than the killing of any other living being. You shall, therefore, O god of justice, have to be born among men even in the Shudhra order. And from this day I establish this limit in respect of the consequence of acts that an act shall not be sinful when committed by one below the age of fourteen. But when committed by one above that age, it shall be regarded as sin.'

"Vaisampayana continued, 'Cursed for this fault by that illustrious Rushi, the god of justice had his birth as Vidhura in the Shudhra womb. And Vidhura was well-versed in the doctrines of Dharma and also Nithi and Artha. And he was entirely free from covetousness and wrath. Possessed of great foresight and undisturbed tranquillity of mind, Vidhura was ever devoted to the welfare of the Kurus.'"


Italicized lines are not found in Sanskrit version(which is found online). Also the sanskrith online version says that it is the fourteenth year not twelfth year.

Now, the same story is repeated in the Buddhist version as the past life of Buddha:
(F. 43 3 b ) Maheshvarasena of Varanasi had many descendants, who reigned in Kushinagara and also in Potala; one of these was King Karnika, who had two sons, Gauthama and Bharadvaja (f. 43 5 a ) ; the former was a virtuous man, whereas the latter was wicked. Gauthama, though the elder, begged his father to allow him to become a recluse, for he dreaded the responsibility of a sovereign ruler. Having obtained the necessary consent, he became the disciple of a rushi called Krushnavarna. After a while, King Karnika died, and Bharadvaja became king (f. 436 a ).

Following his master’s advice, Gauthama built a hut within the precincts of Potala, and there he dwelt. It happened once that a courtesan of Potala called Bhadra was killed by her crafty lover near the recluse’s hut 1 (f. 437 a ), into which the murderer threw his bloody sword.
The people of the town finding the murdered woman and the sword in the hermit’s hut, thought him the murderer, and he was condemned to death. He was marched through the city with a wreath of karavira (sic) flowers around his neck and dressed in rags; then they took him outside the southern gate and impaled him (f. 437").


ORIGIN OF THE IKSHVAKU FAMILY.


While yet alive, his master, the rushi Krushnavarna saw him, and questioned him as to his guilt. " If I am innocent," Gauthama replied, " may you from black become golden-coloured ! " and straightway the rushi became golden-coloured, and was from that time known as Kanakavarna. Gauthama also told the rushi that he was greatly worried at the thought that the throne of Potala would become vacant, for his brother had no children (f. 438 b ) ; so the rushi caused a great rain to fall on Gauthama, and a mighty wind to arise which soothed his pains and revived his senses, and two drops of semen mingled with blood fell from him.

After a little while these two drops became eggs, and the heat of the rising sun caused them to open, and from out them came two children, who went into a sugar-cane plantation near by. The heat of the sun went on increasing, so that the rushi Gauthama dried up and died.

Now the rushi Kanakavarna perceived that these children must be Gauthama’s, so he took them home with him and provided for them. Having been born as the sun arose, and having been brought forth by its rays, they were called " of the sun family " or Suryavansa.

They were, moreover, called Gauthama, being the children of Gauthama, and as they were " born from his loins," they were, in the third place, called Angirasas (Yan-lag skyes). Having been found in a " sugar-cane plantation," they were called Ikshvaku (f. 439).

Bharadvaja died without issue, and the ministers consulted the rushi to know if Gauthama had left children (f. 439 b ). He told them the strange story, and they took the children and made the elder one king. He died, however, without issue, and the younger became king under the name of Ikshvaku. One hundred of his descendants reigned in Potala, the last of which was Ikshvaku Virudhaka (f. 440).

He had four sons, Ulkamukha, Ivarakarna, Hastinayaka, and Nupura. He married, however, a second time, on condition that if his wife bore a son, he should be king.

After a while she had a son whose name was Rajyananda 1 (f. 44 i b ).

When this last child had grown up, King Virudhaka, on the representation of his wife’s father, was obliged to declare his youngest son his successor and to exile his four other sons.

The princes set out, accompanied by their sisters and a great many people. They traveled toward the Himalaya mountains, and coming to the hermitage of the rushi Kapila, on the bank of the Bhagirathi, they built huts of leaves, and fed on the produce of their hunting (f. 443).

Following the rushi’s advice, they took as their wives sisters who were not of the same mother as themselves, and in this way they had many children. 1

The rushi showed them where to build a town, and he marked it out with golden sand mixed with water, and they built it according to his directions (f. 444). The rushi Kapila having given the soil (vastii) of the place, they called the town "the soil of Kapila" or Kapilavastu.

When they had become very numerous, a deva pointed out another spot, on which they built a town, which they called " shown by a deva " or Devadaha. 2

They made a law in a general assembly of the clan that they should only marry one wife, and that she must be of their own clan (f. 444 b ).


Link

The above is the Buddhist version. The etymologies given by these Buddhists are all misleading, infact it seems to be a deliberately mischievous attempt to play foul with Hindu scriptures.

The Krushnavarna mentioned in the above excerpt has another reading. I read in another version that his name was Krushna-Dwaipayana. Basically, the Buddhist version claims that Krushna-Dwaipayana was the teacher of Buddha in his previous life. And that Krushna-Dwaipayana was made into a Kanaka-Dwaipayana by the Buddha according to the buddhist version. What more, Kanaka-Dwaipayana brought up the children of the Buddha(in his previous life). Buddha was called Gauthama in his previous life according to the above version. So, he came to be known later in the next life as Gauthama Buddha!(Hardly makes any sense to me).

This is a joke on Hindu icon Vyasa. Vyasa is being made fun of.

Also notice the satire on Ikshvaku and Angiras that is being pulled by this buddhist works.

The following is the Hindu version of Ikshvaku's lineage from Valmiki Ramayana in Bala Kaanda Sarga 70:
अव्यक्त प्रभवो ब्रह्मा शाश्वतो नित्य अव्ययः || १-७०-१९
तस्मात् मरीचिः संजज्ञे मरीचेः कश्यपः सुतः |
विवस्वान् कश्यपात् जज्ञे मनुर् वैवस्वतः स्मृतः || १-७०-२०

"The Unprovable emanated the timeless, changeless and perishless Brahma, and from that Being, namely Brahma, Mariichi is begotten, and Kaashyapa is the son of Mariichi, and the Sun is begotten from Kaashyapa, and Manu is said to be the son of the Sun... [1-70-19b, 20]

मनुः प्रजापतिः पूर्वम् इक्ष्वाकुः च मनोः सुतः |
तम् इक्ष्वाकुम् अयोध्यायाम् राजानम् विद्धि पूर्वकम् || १-७०-२१

"Manu is the earliest Prajaapati and Ikshvaaku is the son of Manu, and that Ikshvaaku is the first king of Ayodhya... know thus... [1-70-21]


Link


According to Hinduism, Ikshvaku was the son of Manu. Which Manu? Vaivaswatha Manu. Vaivasvatha Manu was the son of Sun. And therefore, it was called Suryavansha. Shri Rama was born in that lineage. The buddhist version is simply a spoof on the Hindu version. Actually, it seems to me that they are deliberately trying to insult Hinduism by giving silly etymologies to terms important for Hindus.

Kapila is the avatara of Vishnu according to Hinduism. It was Kapila Maharshi who taught Sankhya. Buddhism is playing with his too by saying that incest(between brother and sister) was sanctioned by him.

Buddha is being punished, in his previous life, for a crime that he did not commit. The motif is copied from the MB.

There is a sanskrith play based on the above buddhist version mixed with another Bhasa's play. That means there is a play of Bhasa. It was remixed with this buddhist version of the story and a new play was created. It is called Mricchakatika(little clay cart, eng translation).

That play was made into a movie by the left-liberal Karnad named utsav. He introduced crass insinuations about Vatsayana and Kamasuthra into the movie.

Now, the same motif(based on play and buddhist version) is remixed in NT in so-called crucification of Jesus. BTW, Jesus is a corruption of Yashas. Yashas was one of the first converts to Buddhism according to the Buddhist literature. He was an agra-kulika-putra according to Buddhist literature.

The word 'agra-kulika-putra' is not found in ancient Hindu literature, as far as I know. The word 'Kula' is used to mean a school/family in Valmiki Ramayana and MB. But, in Buddhist literature, there is a curious new word called 'agra-kulika-putra'. So, there were some kulas which were considered agra-kulas. The word agra-kula comes from buddhist literature. Here, Kula gets conflated with Jaathi. The word agra-kula is still used in AP.

The word 'agra-kulika-putra' is found in NT as 'ho tou tektonos huios'(Greek). It is the description of family of Jesus. It means son of ‘tekton’. ‘Tekton’ can refer to any artist. It can also mean a chief of a guild. ‘Agra-kulika’ is being translated as ‘tekton’ in NT.

The following is the NT version:
Mark 15
17 They put a purple robe on him, then twisted together a crown of thorns and set it on him. 18 And they began to call out to him, “Hail, king of the Jews!” 19 Again and again they struck him on the head with a staff and spit on him. Falling on their knees, they paid homage to him. 20 And when they had mocked him, they took off the purple robe and put his own clothes on him. Then they led him out to crucify him.

The Soldiers Mock Jesus

16 The soldiers led Jesus away into the palace (that is, the Praetorium) and called together the whole company of soldiers. 17 They put a purple robe on him, then twisted together a crown of thorns and set it on him. 18 And they began to call out to him, “Hail, king of the Jews!” 19 Again and again they struck him on the head with a staff and spit on him. Falling on their knees, they paid homage to him. 20 And when they had mocked him, they took off the purple robe and put his own clothes on him. Then they led him out to crucify him.
The Crucifixion of Jesus

21 A certain man from Cyrene, Simon, the father of Alexander and Rufus, was passing by on his way in from the country, and they forced him to carry the cross. 22 They brought Jesus to the place called Golgotha (which means “the place of the skull”). 23 Then they offered him wine mixed with myrrh, but he did not take it. 24 And they crucified him. Dividing up his clothes, they cast lots to see what each would get.

25 It was nine in the morning when they crucified him. 26 The written notice of the charge against him read: the king of the jews.

27 They crucified two rebels with him, one on his right and one on his left. [28] [a] 29 Those who passed by hurled insults at him, shaking their heads and saying, “So! You who are going to destroy the temple and build it in three days, 30 come down from the cross and save yourself!” 31 In the same way the chief priests and the teachers of the law mocked him among themselves. “He saved others,” they said, “but he can’t save himself! 32 Let this Messiah, this king of Israel, come down now from the cross, that we may see and believe.” Those crucified with him also heaped insults on him.
The Death of Jesus

33 At noon, darkness came over the whole land until three in the afternoon. 34 And at three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”).

35 When some of those standing near heard this, they said, “Listen, he’s calling Elijah.”

36 Someone ran, filled a sponge with wine vinegar, put it on a staff, and offered it to Jesus to drink. “Now leave him alone. Let’s see if Elijah comes to take him down,” he said.

37 With a loud cry, Jesus breathed his last.



Link

Golgotha(place where Jesus was crucified) -> Kukutha(place where Gauthama was crucified)
Xulon (cross) -> Shulam (stake)
Crown of thorns -> wreath made of karaveera flowers
The greek word for 'crown of thorns' is 'Akantha'. 'Akantaka' in sanskruth means 'without thorns'. So, its clever pun which conveys 'thorns' in greek while 'thornless' in sanskruth.
morning became dark in Jesus story -> Gauthama was impaled in dark night and died when the sun rose and became hot.
Jerusalem -> Kushinagari

Simon of Cyrene, father of Rufus and Alexander is mentioned. Who is he? In another source, there is a mention of Simon the niger. He is called Niger because he is dark. That means Krushnavarna or Krushna Dwaipayana. Dwipa means Island. Krushna-Dwaipayana means Black-Islander. He is originally a Hindu character. He has been used by the Buddhists. Then a proxy is being introduced namely Simon of Cyrene or Simon the niger.

Rufus and Alexander are the proxies for the sons of Gauthama(who are called Ikshavakus in Buddhist version making a mockery of Hinduism).

In Buddhist version, Gauthama(Buddha in his previous life) has his blood and semen drop on earth and two eggs are formed by that. These egg-shells are 'kapalani'. So, the place Kukutha is described as a place of 'kapalani'(i.e. egg-shells formed by the semen of Gauthama). In NT version, the place is called Golgotha and described as place of skulls. Egg-shells become skulls. Because, in sanskruth, skulls are also called kapalani. It is a pun a sanskruth pun executed in Greek to fool the audience. It is like taqqiya. You say one thing but mean something else.

Another version of so-called Jesus crucification:
Luke 22:
Jesus Prays on the Mount of Olives

39 Jesus went out as usual to the Mount of Olives, and his disciples followed him. 40 On reaching the place, he said to them, “Pray that you will not fall into temptation.” 41 He withdrew about a stone’s throw beyond them, knelt down and prayed, 42 “Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.” 43 An angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him. 44 And being in anguish, he prayed more earnestly, and his [b]sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground.[c]

Link

That angel is Krushna-Dwaipayana or Krushnavarna or Simon of Cyrene or Simon the niger.

Jesus' sweat fell like drops of blood on the ground. This is the imitation of Gauthama's blood and semen falling on the ground and producing the eggs and children from those eggs. Those children are Rufus and Alexender in NT, while Ikshvakus in Buddhist literature.

One more version of the same tale:
John 19:
31 Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. Because the Jewish leaders did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down. 32 The soldiers therefore came and broke the legs of the first man who had been crucified with Jesus, and then those of the other. 33 But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs. 34 Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus’ side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water.

Link

This is a more direct imitation of the original Gauthama story. Gauthama is impaled by a stake in his anus(like Ani-Mandavya). Similarly, Jesus is poked by a spear. Blood and water(semen or sweat?) flow and fall on ground. In Buddhist version, Gauthama's blood and semen fall on ground and become egg-shells(i.e. kapalani which also means skulls).

In the Hindu version(MB), Ani-Mandavya goes to Hell to meet with Yama after his impalement. In the Buddhist version, Gauthama goes to Tushitha heaven after impalement. And then, Gauthama is reborn as Siddhartha(or Buddha). In X-ist version, Jesus is crucified, then he is dead(death means hell in Buddhism). Then, Jesus is 're-born' as Savior(i.e. Buddha).

Actually, it is a quite complex remix, but may be it should be reserved for other posts. For example, thieves accompanying the Jesus are Ananda and Subhadra who accompanied the dying Buddha. Chundas is Judas. Chundas offered bad food to Buddha while Judas betrayed Jesus. Basically Chundas/Judas is responsible for the death of Buddha/Judas. Amrapali is Mary Magdalene. Amrapali and Mary Magdalene are prostitutes. Sermon on mount is sermon near varanasi.

The Buddhist version is used to create several crypto versions to attract other audiences. This is not at all new. This happened in all the countries that Buddhism spread to. The same thing is being done in NT versions also. But, Buddhist versions themselves are an elaborate copies/spoofs/fakes/imitations of Hindu versions.

Buddha is remix of motifs from MB, ramayana and Bhagavatha. No, not just Shri Krushna, but other figures(like Ani-Mandavya, Asitha, Vyasa, Ikshvaku, Pandavas, ...etc) are also spoofed/copied/stolen by the Buddhist versions.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby Nilesh Oak » 13 Jan 2014 11:17

^
JohneeG,

I think there is Druid Godess - Hel, which is similar to 'Kali' and per one liguists, export of Kali from india to Ireland.

Am writing in the context of Hel, HellA, Allah, etc. For what it is worth.

------------
Pls check your email and get back to me ASAP. TIA.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby RajeshA » 14 Jan 2014 03:56

Link was sent to me by Subhash Kak ji.

Dec 21, 2013
By Usha Akella
The Renaissance man: The Hindu

Subhash Kak is Regents Professor of Computer Science at Oklahoma State University in Stillwater. He has written six books of verse in English and Hindi and another 14 on a wide variety of subjects, including history of science and art. He was the anchor of Raga Unveiled, a four-hour documentary on Hindustani music. His books of poetry are The Conductor of the Dead, The London Bridge (Writers Workshop, Kolkata), The Secrets of Ishbar (Vitasta), The Chinar Garden (Blue Sparrow), Eka Taal Ek Darpana (Raka Prakashan), and Mitti Ka Anuraag (Alakananda). Excerpts from an interview:

You have been described as a Renaissance man. As an India scholar, what period in Indian History would be comparable with the term?

I think the term “Renaissance” is most apt for the last 200 years of Indian history, the period of its engagement with Europe, and a period of grave danger to its very existence. To serve as a profitable colony of Britain, India had to be mastered and refashioned in the image of Europe. The British Empire set in motion forces that destroyed most traditional institutions, but these forces also compelled Indians to question themselves and go back to the essential roots of her culture.

The destruction of Indian institutions took place as much by neglect as by design. Until the late 18th century, India was as prosperous as Europe. But after the beginnings of the Industrial Revolution in the early 19th century (by which time Britain controlled Indian banking and other institutions), British factories were able to produce goods with which old methods of production could not compete. This suited Britain because India became the destination for its goods and since no comparable investments were made in Indian factories, India slipped further and further behind Britain. In the 200 years of British rule, Indian share of world economy dropped from 25 per cent to about two per cent, leading to unprecedented impoverishment of the country. The spread of misery was slow and relentless so that new generations did not even associate it with the British Raj, which was thanked for bringing the railways and telegraph to the country.

Mathematics, Cryptography, Indic Studies, mythology, neural networks, astronomy, poetry… how do the many meet?

Many years ago the British novelist C.P. Snow spoke of two cultures — the sciences and the humanities — which have their own mutually incomprehensible languages. Personally, I don’t agree. I think the creative impulse is the same in all fields. Each of these subjects is a collection of stories, with its own vocabulary and standards of style. Once one has mastered these elements, one is creative if one is able to see familiar things in new ways. And as far as aesthetics is concerned, there is a marvellous 1000-year-old Indian theory of it called dhvani, according to which the best way to communicate new insights is through hint, example and suggestion.

I am curious to know where you have found an overlap between Science and Vedic Religion/Philosophy.

The essence of the Vedas is a narrative on who the experiencing self is. Ordinary science informs us of the relationships between objects and also their transformations. But the Vedas say that this ordinary science leaves out the self who observes these objects. The Vedas speak of two kinds of sciences: the lower (rational and linguistic), and higher (transcendental).

What sparked your interest in Indic Studies?

I think it was triggered by an essay by a Western linguist who claimed that Panini’s 2400-year old grammar of Sanskrit had anticipated the abstract form of the modern computer. In his autobiography, the great physicist Erwin Schrödinger, one of the creators of quantum mechanics, credited the Upanishads with the key idea of quantum mechanics, that reality at the deepest level is a superposition of mutually exclusive attributes.

When I was young, my father had spoken to me about Panini but I did not pay any attention. When I began a systematic study of Indian texts, the journey took me to not only to mathematics and astronomy but also to texts on art and architecture, philosophy and Puranic encyclopedias, music and literature. India, given its very ancient history, has had many cycles of decay and renaissance. The later flowerings had their unique insights and accomplishments. For example, Rajendra Chola and his successors created some of the greatest wonders of art and architecture in India and Southeast Asia at about the same time as the great Vaishnava acharyas wrote their philosophical texts. The period of the Vijayanagara Empire was coeval with Kerala’s great achievement in mathematics and astronomy.

Your view is that the Indian way is harmony and the perception of spirit or consciousness preceding material reality. How do you understand the present reality of Indian society as it is now?

As at any other time, India is precariously balanced between the horrific and the sublime. Many Indians have become “mimic men,” to use one of V.S. Naipaul’s memorable phrases. There is uncritical copying of West and excess, but on the other hand, there is increasing spiritual yearning.

In some sense, your most popular work is the book you co-authored with David Frawley. How did it come about?

In the early 1990s our family was on a driving tour through the Western states and we were surprised to hear of Hanuman temple run by Americans in Taos in New Mexico. We visited the place next day; it was like an ashram and met many idealistic young people there. There, somebody told us of David and his work in the Vedas. When I returned to Baton Rouge, Louisiana I wrote to him and soon we established a fruitful dialogue. I had discovered a long-lost astronomy of the Vedic period, which had important implications for the understanding of the earliest history of India, and I thought it would be good for us to write a popular book on the subject. David then recruited Georg Feuerstein (who sadly died last year), one of the world’s foremost scholars of yoga, to join as a co-author.

In your essay ‘Rituals, Masks and Sacrifice’, you state that word-bound religions do not encourage mythology.

Mythology is coded narrative used to describe paradoxical and transcendent aspects of reality. Word-bound religions do not admit to such paradoxes. While they speak of transcendence, it only occurs on the Day of Judgment. Knowledge is the goal of life according to the Indian religions; in word-bound religions, living within religious laws is central for which there is reward as everlasting life in paradise.

Reading through the poems in The Secrets of Ishbar, I was overwhelmed by the sense that your poems seek beauty or intuitively grasp beauty.

Beauty takes us to a space that is ineffable, a place of secrets. Sometimes when explaining beauty we speak of symmetry as an element, but there is much to it that is beyond form and words. There is a saying in Sanskrit that looking fresh and new each time is the sign of beauty. We cannot define beauty but we recognise it from signs. The challenge for the poet is to capture the dhvani of beauty. This idea of dhvani was developed by Anandavardhana and Abhinavagupta who argued that behind each word and phrase are associations and evocations that one must pause on to arrive at the sentiment or rasa of the poem. That is why the best writings can be read at so many different levels.

Do you see yourself as a Kashmiri poet in particular?

Kashmir has had a great and old tradition of mystical poetry, much of it in the style of bhakti poetry where one speaks of the separation from Krishna or the unnamed beloved. The intertwining of romantic love with mystical yearning is sometimes called lol, a hallmark of Kashmiri poetry. But Kashmiri creativity also finds expression in simple, iconic forms, and contemplative music. Historians believe that the meditative discipline of dhyāna went from Kashmir to China (where it was called chan) and eventually becoming Zen in Japan. I mention this as I am an admirer of Zen poetry and haiku. So it is hard to say if my work belongs to the Kashmiri canon. I think my sensibility has an austere edge and I have sought simplicity.

Your poems tend to peak in the closing lines. What is your personal prosody and perception of form versus content in a poem?

To the extent that a poem is a thing, it has to have a form where the pieces fit together. This is what I try to do in the closing lines of the poem by bringing the elements that are seemingly in opposition and tie them together.

Is exile a necessary condition of poetry?

Yes, exile is necessary for poetry. Exile provides distance and you see places in ways that you never suspected when you were around them. Familiarity throws a curtain over things and exile, with its accompanying suffering, is essential for one to be able to really see. For me and many other Kashmiris, it has been a physical exile from the valley of our forefathers but, for other poets, it may not be a physical exile but a separation and a tearing apart.

What is particularly American and particularly Indian in your poetry?

I believe we live in the global village and it is very difficult to separate different cultural influences in any individual. I am sure my American life has shaped me in a thousand different ways that gets reflected in my writings. On the other hand, my Indian modes of thought (samskaras) are very deep.

Poets that inspire you…

I have found inspiration from poets of diverse cultures in English translations and in originals in Hindi, Urdu, Kashmiri, and Sanskrit. Some names that pop up are Lalla, Hafiz, Rumi, Mirabai, Ghalib, Yeats, Eliot, Cummings, Neruda.

What is the place of philosophy in poetry, if it holds one?

The structure that we give to our works is informed by a philosophy of which we may not be consciously aware. In my view, the purpose of poetry is to communicate deep truths that are not accessible to ordinary narrative. Poetry is a powerful vehicle of dhvani as is music.

Does the scientist in you restrict the poet in you or enrich it?

The scientist in me enriches my poetry. If the poet must find a unique voice, mine is different from most others because my experience has not only literature but also a big dose of science in it.

I want to touch specifically upon the Prajna Sutras because I think you've achieved something quite out of the ordinary in that collection. As a contemporary Indian poet you bring philosophy back to the realm of poetry and the notion of poetry as revealed literature. Comment.

I agree that the Prajna Sutras are special for they go to the heart of the poetic impulse and they do so in a way that is uniquely Indian. Indian writing is often shallow not only because it is imitative but because it plays on the stereotypes familiar to the Western reader for it is written for that audience. Indian writing will become world class only when it finds its own dhvani.

The sutras are paradoxical in the sense they state the insufficiency of language to state reality; it can only be suggested. Is poetry inadequate in the final analysis as it operates through language mostly as a medium?

Poetry will be limited in its linguistic content but, unlike other literature, it has the capacity to evoke rasa, and take the reader to the place of mystery.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby Prem » 21 Jan 2014 02:26

I was Guungunaying Shivoham and strangely it sounded like Elohi(u)m which latter on became Meccan Moon God (MMG) Elhai or Ilahi or Allahi.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby member_22872 » 27 Jan 2014 20:26

Review of E.J. Michael Witzel's The Origins of the World's Mythologies 2013 by Tok Thompson, University of Southern California

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby Nilesh Oak » 28 Jan 2014 20:24

The Historic Rama is here and available from this link

https://www.createspace.com/3566806
----
Amazon.com would take another week, before it is available from that site.

• CreateSpace eStore: Immediately
• Amazon.com: 5-7 Business Days
• Amazon Europe: 5-7 Business Days
• Expanded Distribution channels: 6-8 weeks

I will update as I know more.

Happy Reading.
------
For readers in India,

Work in progress to make it available in India. It will take some time. Stay tuned for updates.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby member_22872 » 28 Jan 2014 21:29

Nilesh ji, couldn't find it on amazon. Is it possible for you to kindly list the contents and brief description. Just curious.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby Ashok Sarraff » 28 Jan 2014 21:40

Nilesh, Sadhuwad :-)

Atri ji, KLPD ji, jhonee G ji and others, please think about putting your thoughts in words and compiling the words into books following Nilesh's footsteps. There are so many knowledgeable folks here and the wisdom they share on the forum disappears forever when the threads are deleted. Please consider my request.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby Nilesh Oak » 28 Jan 2014 22:18

venug wrote:Nilesh ji, couldn't find it on amazon. Is it possible for you to kindly list the contents and brief description. Just curious.

Venug Gaaru,

The link in the above post should work (Createspace - sister arm of Amazon). It will take a week (or less) before it shows up on Amazon.
--------
Here is the copy paste content. I know format will be lost.

CONTENTS


For My Fans

Acknowledgments

Introduction 8
1 The Problem 13
2 Theory, Conjectures & Background assumptions 23
3 Ramayana before Mahabharata 30
4 Indian Calendar 38
5 Path of the Pole 47
6 Epoch of Ramayana 55
7 Ramayana Millennium 62
8 The day Rama left for the Forest 73
9 Rama-Sita Wedding 83
10 Ayodhya to Chitrakuta 93
11 Panchavati to Kishkindha 99
12 In Kishkindha 107
13 Searching for Sita in the South 112
14 Hanuman in Lanka 121
15 Kishkindha to Lanka 129
16 The War & Rama’s return to Ayodhya 137
17 Conflicting Observations 150
18 Theory & Proposal of P V Vartak 168
19 Theory & Proposal of Pushkar Bhatnagar 188
20 Theories and Proposals of SRS & Yardi 200
21 Ramayana Diary 207
22 A Better Theory 218
23 Implications, Predictions & New Problems 230
Appendix- A 239
Appendix - B 247
Selected Bibliography 251
Ramayana References 252
About the Author 279

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby RajeshA » 28 Jan 2014 22:19

Nilesh ji,

Brilliant!

Now one can start spreading the word!

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby RajeshA » 28 Jan 2014 22:22

That is what I would urge everybody here! SPREAD THE WORD!

BHARAT is REBORN, as it's most famous son, Lord Rama, has finally found a throne on world's timeline!

And it is an open challenge from Nilesh Nilkanth Oak to the world to try and dethrone Lord Rama from that throne if they think they are intellectually up to the task.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby Prem » 28 Jan 2014 22:40

Nilesh Oak wrote:The Historic Rama is here and available from this link
https://www.createspace.com/3566806
Amazon.com would take another week, before it is available from that site.


Sir ji, any plan to visit Kaushal ji Aggggain ?

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby Nilesh Oak » 28 Jan 2014 22:57

RajeshA wrote:Nilesh ji,

Brilliant!

Now one can start spreading the word!

Thanks RajeshA,

If you can search your past post in this OIT thread.. where as part of 'strategy' you wrote something like, if it can be shown that Ramayana occurred in say XXXXX BCE, please find it and repost. and then compare it with what I have indeed proposed.

(I tried searching but could not locate it).

Of course, I have not tried to justify my timeline (that is non-OIT crowd). I have simply followed the trail of astronomy (and chronology and sesaons) left by Mahamuni Valmiki.

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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby Nilesh Oak » 28 Jan 2014 22:59

Jhujar wrote:
Nilesh Oak wrote:The Historic Rama is here and available from this link
https://www.createspace.com/3566806
Amazon.com would take another week, before it is available from that site.


Sir ji, any plan to visit Kaushal ji Aggggain ?

If you invite ( I have an invitation from another location...few miles drive from your place -to the south) and I will see if I can combine the two. But it does not have to be a combined trip.

If you invite, I will come. :) (If you will build, they will come.. and play).

RajeshA
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby RajeshA » 30 Jan 2014 00:14

I had a wonderful evening today explaining to my family how the 24 hour day, the 7 day week, the name of the weekdays, the sequence of weekday names, are all based on an astronomical-based system.

And the Week had an Out-of-India migration just like the Zero!

So next time some AIT-Nazi talks you down, ask him what weekday it is!

Nilesh ji,

a big thank you to you and Shri Suhas Gurjar.

Nilesh Oak
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby Nilesh Oak » 30 Jan 2014 00:40

RajeshA wrote:I had a wonderful evening today explaining to my family how the 24 hour day, the 7 day week, the name of the weekdays, the sequence of weekday names, are all based on an astronomical-based system.

And the Week had an Out-of-India migration just like the Zero!

So next time some AIT-Nazi talks you down, ask him what weekday it is!

Nilesh ji,

a big thank you to you and Shri Suhas Gurjar.

And don't forget our very own BRF member who not only instigated me to look into it, but also participated in the research.

member_22872
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby member_22872 » 30 Jan 2014 02:47

Nilesh ji, Ordered my copy today.

Rony
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby Rony » 30 Jan 2014 03:08

Shrikant Talageri shares his research on linguistics to dispel the myth of Aryan Invasion Theory. He traces the origin of this theory to 18th century with the arrival of British in India. He reveals how it came into existence due to striking similarity among the Indo-European languages He raises many questions regarding formation of this theory and the role British played in it. He shares numerous linguistics evidences to disprove the claims of any Aryan invasion in India.




Dr. N S Rajaram talks about how Aryan Debate no longer exists now. He says, "It's not a debate anymore". Sharing latest research on Genetics and Human migration -- he claims that Aryan Invasion never happened in India. He shares that Africa is the original homeland of Human (homo sapient) from where humans have migrated across the world. This new Genetic research shows that how first few migrations from Africa brought Humans in India where it give rise to great Indic civilization.


RajeshA
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby RajeshA » 30 Jan 2014 03:11

Nilesh Oak wrote:And don't forget our very own BRF member who not only instigated me to look into it, but also participated in the research.


Of course a big thanks to him as well, however for the sake of anonymity, I'll leave it at that.

UlanBatori
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby UlanBatori » 30 Jan 2014 03:19

I am so happy to see this thread. Long ago on BRF there used to be a deep and well-founded understanding of what is called Gypsy/Alien Civilization Reality: the reality that all of what is now known as Western Civilization was brought there by the Gypsies who came out of India, perhaps with some inspiration by visiting extra-terrestrials. Satellite images of Afghanistan confirm easily that the whole dump is a huge nuclear explosion crater - probably as a result of the Extra Terrestrials bringing the only solution possible to the Original Pakistanis.

Now this is fabulous: The realization that many human tribes show far more similarity to pigs than to intelligent, caring, civilized chimpanzees
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes ... ees-traits

Well done!! There is a simple proof too: Look at the tribes that prohibit consumption of pig meat. The Jews merely consider it to be unclean. Pakis consider it on par with cannibalism. Q.E.D.

Nilesh Oak
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby Nilesh Oak » 31 Jan 2014 19:35

Venug ji

Thank you. Do send me a critical and brutal feedback of the book. Please do the same on Amazon.

Ashok Saraaf ji, RajeshA ji and others

Thank you.

kenop
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby kenop » 31 Jan 2014 21:16

Hain ji.
Newbies talking about long ago.

Nilesh Oak
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby Nilesh Oak » 06 Feb 2014 22:09

OIT or (AIT, NOT)
------------
Accepting Pre-orders. (Please write to Askhar.Bharati@yahoo.com for all order related questions, in India)
——
A team of volunteers is making this possible. Please be patient as they work through the bottlenecks in the system.

Image

sampat
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby sampat » 06 Feb 2014 22:44

if possible then release it on itunes and kindle store as well. At least, for international market.

Nilesh Oak
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Re: Out-of-India - From Theory to Truth

Postby Nilesh Oak » 06 Feb 2014 22:53

sampat wrote:if possible then release it on itunes and kindle store as well. At least, for international market.

Sampat ji,

Already available in Kindle -Internationally. Check Amazon.com. Paperback also available in all international markets (if not available in a specific country, it would be soon).


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