India-US Strategic News and Discussion

habal · Post by **habal** » 29 Jan 2014 17:05

He is worked up over the small saffron.

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 29 Jan 2014 18:00

Lalmohan wrote:i cant believe you guys are getting worked up about the google doodle... really?

And I can understand %^* being worked up

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 29 Jan 2014 18:02

^^^^ no need to get worked up if it is small.

As the Duchess told the Cardinal: "it doesn't matter if its small dahling. It's how you use it that matters."

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 29 Jan 2014 18:06

US and Pak are natural allies in one way.The Amirkhans killed all the 'Indians' and took over their land.The Pakis were gifted Indian land by British because ghazis had planted the green flag long back though Sikhs were the last indigenous rulers of Punjab.And it is US which is still stopping Pak from collapse.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 29 Jan 2014 18:13

What ever the specifics on R day doodle, fact remains that Google is up to no good in its meddling and propagandu on Indian affairs leveraging its dominant position as a Search Gaint.
This has been clear since *those* Aman ki Tamasha ads with Paki Pasand messaging .
And doodles are no longer just doodles but are now professional works with specific intents. The gratituous plug on the British Museum for the sake of turd worlder's edumacation is just one example out of an assembly line of other edumacating doodles on primacy of Western Culture.

And that they are prominently displayed on Google landing page (which has the greatest page hits - probably more than the rest of the top 20 sites combined) is an inescapable fact .

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 29 Jan 2014 20:02

LokeshC wrote:^^^ Interesting. Someone from the Mod side should perhaps talk to him... gently ofcourse.

[Edited out]

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 29 Jan 2014 20:07

I think odds are high that SR would work with May's couple

Or Zeya or one of the others mentioned, but I think they are too smart for that. They will simply exchange these for others in same category. The COTUS should also be primed to investigate how many of these T visas have been given, and country-wise distribution - and how many of those are "working for the Federal Govt" as in being nanny/driver/gardener/ "security guard"/"personal aide" to senior govt. employees.

THIS is the real trafficking scam: Indian diplomats have to get permission, go find ppl, hire them with 2 or however many contracts covering all the nations where they may have to go with them, get visas, fill out forms asking asinine questions, meet the fine print in those.

GOTUS people are far smarter. Just find ppl, and put them in a situation where they have apply for asylum, T-visa and get the Federal Witness Protection Program to provide the $$ to hire them as sort-of lifetime ~~slaves~~ "assistants". What are they going to do? Run away?

vic · Post by **vic** » 29 Jan 2014 20:34

I think would be important for Indian Govt to find out who all have been issued this T visa over last few years and why?

saip · Post by **saip** » 29 Jan 2014 20:38

T Category visa are not exactly common. India has figured in a prominent way for T2 and T3 visas especially during the past three years. There are no statistics I could see for T1 visa itself. That may be because these statistics are for the number of visas granted by US embassies and consulates world wide and T1 is not granted by them. The victim for T1 must be already in USA and so it is probably granted by the SD or the Immigration Dept and so those numbers dont show up. What is puzzling is the spike in T2, T3 visas with respect to India during the past three years. It is just possible that all these visas arose out of a single case (Signal some thing or the other) when nearly 500 employees of that company alleged to being victims of human trafficking and a case was filed against that company and several body shops run by Indians and others. A_Gupta has posted a link for that case some pages back.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 29 Jan 2014 21:33

found in hindustan times

Indians are among the top of the heap when it comes to those who get trafficking visas to the US. In 2012, 49 people from India got T2 visa meant for spouses of those who are trafficked and 79 people T3 visa (the children of those trafficked). In the same year, 130 T2 visas and 219 T3 visas were issued in the whole of Asia.

In 2011, the figure was 82 and 112 respectively for Indians in T2 and T3 category.

- See more at: http://www.hindustantimes.com/world-new ... 1kB7Y.dpuf

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 29 Jan 2014 21:47

Amit et al -

Let me be clear. I have zero sympathy, and utter disgust for "poor" maid type stories. Most maids (or other decent people) I know, even if they are poor, do not do what SR did. If she had even a milligram of decency she would not have done what she did. As said before, if there was one person, who could have put a stop to all this ugly saga, it was SR.

May be Paki neighbor, or despicable lawyers may have influenced her, but it is SHE WHO CHOSE TO DO the despicable thing.. PB's story that DK "made her lie and fill out the Visa form" has no merit, as she is the one who filled the visa form and perpetuated the visa fraud. There should be no doubt, her sins and responsibility is an order of magnitude greater than the Paki, or the Lawyers or Mays..

In the same token, Mays may have brought the AI tickets for the drunk driver and her daughter..But is the drunk driver and the daughter (20 year old - not a baby, human - not a Doberman) CHOSE to take that flight.

No one should give them a free pass.

I was very disturbed to see sentences like "SR is as much a victim as DR"... This is absurd, if not outright offensive.

DK was dropping her kids at the school. (She did not choose to run away from the kids). She did not cause her own arrest.. she had no choice, others arrested her. SR, had a choice and she did what she did. DK had no choice, but to spend time with common criminals and prostitutes while she was in Jail. SR chose to cooperate with criminals and prostitutes.

As said before, if SR did not want it, (and actively cooperated in despicable acts) the whole train wreck could have been prevented. NO other person.. (NOT PB, not Kerry, not MMS, not Obama, no MATA, MUTU or MITI or Mays had that power to stop it alone, SR did, and she chose to let DK arrested etc)

SR is no victim. Neither does her daughter (or husband) deserves any pity.

What they should get (each), at least as minimum in US courts, 15 years as Visa fraud, 10 years for lying to Fed.agents .. and perhaps another 75 years for other crimes such as child endangerment, fraud, etc.. . May be there is some plea bargaining, and if she turns a state witness to implicate others, in that case the jail term can be reduced to, say 20 years, and then deported to India to face Indian courts.

Zeyas and Mays could wait to hire some other maid till then. Hope fully others learn from it.

This ought to be a deterrent to all those who, as PB once said "think greed is good."

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 29 Jan 2014 21:52

VijayKM wrote:....

From Colonel Anil A Athale (retd):
"To an outsider, the US increasingly looks like a capitalist USSR, complete with its Big Brother snooping, its own Gulag at Guantanamo, its own version of Pravda in The New York Times and Izvestia in the Washington Post!"

http://www.rediff.com/news/column/colum ... 131226.htm

...Coming close on the heels of the American non-cooperation in the David Headley case, this will leave a bitter taste.

What is extraordinary is the utter American insensitivity to public opinion in India -- a rare country in which survey after survey showed the US as a popular country in the public perception.

Indians seem to have underestimated the strength of American self-perception of its 'Exceptionalism'.

The Americans believe that they are the champions of human rights and religious rights and American justice is second to none. They also have legal systems in place that puts American law over international treaties and other nations's laws.

Most of the world, especially after the scandal of the US National Security Agency snooping over communications in Europe, Asia and Africa with no distinction made between allies and enemies, see the US as a global sheriff, not just a global cop.

To an outsider, the US increasingly looks like a capitalist USSR, complete with its Big Brother snooping, its own Gulag at Guantanamo, its own version of Pravda in The New York Times and Izvestia in the Washington Post!

Even after the current impasse is resolved, Indians would do well to be strictly reciprocal in all dealings with the US and not keep all our eggs in a single basket.

Colonel Anil A Athale (retd)

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 29 Jan 2014 21:56

vina wrote:Posting without comment.. From New York Times, Delhi .A maid's pay and moral choices.

Maybe, NYTime's Ellen Barry will write more about "moral choices" of earning $40K upwards, cheat on visa , tax and other laws and pay these same wages as well , or was the article meant to talk down to middle class Indians , "oh, you pay only $0.xx per hour" and you are "heartless", while ignoring the broader realities of India and the still very poor section of a large percentage of it's population. Maybe, she will write about how Khobragade was paying TWICE what she was paying the woman in Delhi and in addition she got free food, acco , phone and a pretty airy room in some tony apt in Manhattan?

The US passed new regulations that exclude room and board in posh upscale New York etc from calculating the wages. So its an agenda to make an example of some diplomat or the other.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 29 Jan 2014 22:01

chaanakya wrote:Indian Maid’s Lawyer, Funded by Ford, McArthur, Euro Govts

A close look at the funding of the HRLN shows that it is far from being a true private agency.

The names of its donors is a roll-call of the most prominent family foundations (MacArthur, Ford) supporting Western state interests. In addition, there are a number of embassies (Dutch, Swedish) and governments (Irish, Swiss) represented, the UN (UN High Commissioner for Refugees), as well as other rights groups.

It was through this Western-elite backed network and its contacts in the church and US embassy that the Sangeeta Richard case was drummed up and manipulated to create an “anti-trafficking” case that would highlight the agenda demanded by the strategic goals of a “color revolution” (based on the twin themes of “modern slavery” and “anti-trafficking) targeting India sponsored by the CIA.
Role of foreign funding in subverting Indian Politic is needed to be curbed.

It was not clear from above post that they are talking about the lawyer in India and not the lawyers in New York.

The lawyer who represented the husband of the Indian maid, Sangeeta Richard, is one Tariq Adeeb. He represented Philip Richard, when Richard filed a case against Devyani Khobragade, the Indian diplomat who hired Sangeeta as her nanny in New York.

After Sangeeta absconded from the Devyani Khobragade house-hold, taking about $200, some documents, and a cell-phone, a case was filed against her.

Later, Philip, still in Delhi, went to the Delhi High Court to retaliate against Khobragade.

Philip Richard’s lawyer at the Delhi High Court was Tariq Adeeb, a Muslim activist-lawyer who belongs to the Human Rights Law Network in India, a vast national networks of activists and lawyers, pursuing social justice (that is, extensive redistributive and welfare schemes) under the rubric of “indivisible human rights.”

A close look at the funding of the HRLN shows that it is far from being a true private agency.

The names of its donors is a roll-call of the most prominent family foundations (MacArthur, Ford) supporting Western state interests. In addition, there are a number of embassies (Dutch, Swedish) and governments (Irish, Swiss) represented, the UN (UN High Commissioner for Refugees), as well as other rights groups.

It was through this Western-elite backed network and its contacts in the church and US embassy that the Sangeeta Richard case was drummed up and manipulated to create an “anti-trafficking” case that would highlight the agenda demanded by the strategic goals of a “color revolution” (based on the twin themes of “modern slavery” and “anti-trafficking) targeting India sponsored by the CIA.

Also note that SR took advise from Pakistanis and took shelter in a "Sikh" temple. And note the large group of 40 anti-Indian NGOs in US lining up to lend their voice in support.

saip · Post by **saip** » 29 Jan 2014 22:26

Singha wrote:found in hindustan times

Indians are among the top of the heap when it comes to those who get trafficking visas to the US. In 2012, 49 people from India got T2 visa meant for spouses of those who are trafficked and 79 people T3 visa (the children of those trafficked). In the same year, 130 T2 visas and 219 T3 visas were issued in the whole of Asia.

In 2011, the figure was 82 and 112 respectively for Indians in T2 and T3 category.

- See more at: http://www.hindustantimes.com/world-new ... traffickin g-visa-issue-with-kerry/article1-1175735.aspx#sthash.a4X1kB7Y.dpuf

That is what is puzzling. Based on these statistics there should have been lot more prosecutions of Indians for human trafficking but I do not recall having read about any. These numbers of visas should have raised a red flag in New Delhi but apparently did not. The only explanation is that New Delhi knew about these and did not raise any concern for whatever reason. One reason is that all these relate to one case which was touted as largest single case of human trafficking. But that relates to ship welders and fitters who were contracted in India and brought here on the promise of GCs but had to work in slave like conditions. That case was filed in 2010 and then you see all these T2, T3 visas in subsequent years.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 29 Jan 2014 22:36

saip wrote:
That is what is puzzling. Based on these statistics there should have been lot more prosecutions of Indians for human trafficking but I do not recall having read about any. These numbers of visas should have raised a red flag in New Delhi but apparently did not. The only explanation is that New Delhi knew about these and did not raise any concern for whatever reason. One reason is that all these relate to one case which was touted as largest single case of human trafficking. But that relates to ship welders and fitters who were contracted in India and brought here on the promise of GCs but had to work in slave like conditions. That case was filed in 2010 and then you see all these T2, T3 visas in subsequent years.

Look at the same news item slightly differently.

If India awarded 100 Pakistanis with a science, technology and innovation award every year would it mean that Pakis are the tops in S&T? Similarly, just because the US selects and awards T-something visas to Indians why would anyone believe that those people really are what the Us describes them as being?

When the US says Pakistan is a loyal ally, Americans believe it. Why should an Indian believe it?

When the US says it finds the most slavery in India, Americans believe it. Must Indians believe it? Do you believe it?

As a people we simply tend t take US actions and statements as the truth. I am hoping that we all learn to be more discerning. The fact that the US issues T visas to Indians is simply a "You farted" accusation against India

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 29 Jan 2014 23:23

JE Menon wrote:Just because...
<snip>

In short, end the personal targeting. Admins will handle participant issues. There will be no follow up messages on this, anyone carrying on in the same theme will receive appropriate guidance.

Menon Sahib, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you...!

As a brf oldie (more than 15 years) I really hope that the forum again becomes what it ought to be -- a place to share ideas, facts and perspectives; and not just another place to make speeches and even engage in disgraceful rants about who is the purest and damn anyone who is not considered pure enough.

Meanwhile let me share something -- I was talking to a fellow American and this point came up.

Most of the people here know about Watergate. (Those who do not know the details can check up any good source). Very powerful people (including POTUS Nixon) finally were held accountable.
The main reason that - all that unraveled was that some petty burglars who were caught were unfortunate enough to go to Judge Sirica's court.

Judge Sirica, instead of expected fines or short sentences, gave maximum (as in 20-30 years) to these relatively low level guys. (Maximum allowed by law)

Now, these low level guys would have shielded their bosses if the sentence was light or consisted of only fines, but prospect of spending next 20 years of jail encouraged them to finger others....

The "others" got the similar treatment (max sentences) and they ratted too.. in a short time it reached all the way to the very high up.. and Nixon finally has to resign.

So there may be lesson here. SR types (or Mays or anyone who can be prosecuted easily for Visa Fraud) should be prosecuted for Visa frauds, and if proven guilty, give them maximum sentence. (No mercy)
That will encourage SR (and other "poor pawns") to finger others.

Then let it go higher up..

Similarly if anyone broke the laws in US Marshal's office, prosecute and, if found guilty, give them maximum sentence.

(Not restricted to US courts only, of course, Indian courts can do the same for those who are in India)

Slowly this can be something which can enable massive cleanup in SD etc...

Kudos to DK. (For most, it would have been so much easy to "settle" the case with a few thousand dollars instead of bravely standing for what is right).

Her mistreatment should not going to go in vain. We all should see to it.

member_28380 · Post by **member_28380** » 29 Jan 2014 23:32

@Shiv
Issuance of T visas just means misplaced moralizing of Americans, and people exloiting to the hilt.

Sangeeta Richards is the tip of the iceberg of the huge immigration scam with T visas and asylum cases.
The truth is reason for migration from India to US is overwhelmingly economic, if not the only reason.

Not aware of people belonging to any particular religion being “persecuted” in India. Yet apparently there
are 200,000 asylum cases with the US SD from India, 90% of them belonging to the religion of our Prime Minister
and Chief of Indian Army.
Just think about this.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 29 Jan 2014 23:49

Amber G. wrote: Kudos to DK. (For most, it would have been so much easy to "settle" the case with a few thousand dollars instead of bravely standing for what is right).

Inferences drawn so far are weak, quite weak, and not really unsupported by evidence. Wishful thinking and cultural leanings are involved in drawing them.

Settlements are not what you think of them or what is made out of them in the media, and since most are confidential, we may never know what actually transpired and likely never will. Only random he said, she said. Lets not get over-excited, reality may well be quite different. It is in no one's interest for the whole truth to be publicly available, and fragments always tell a different story.

A well known American detective website once discovered 28 people conclusively within hours. Except they were not the people sought. "right" and "wrong" are only words. And there were at least a hundred options available during the time that lapsed to both sides. Paranoia may not be the right word, but judicious caution certainly is, and it was not exercised simply due to misplaced (or too large) egos.

Damn: another cave break. They are going to have to post guards there, now. There go my privileges of wandering about in sheep-skin leotard onlee.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 30 Jan 2014 00:01

saip wrote:
Singha wrote:found in hindustan times

Indians are among the top of the heap when it comes to those who get trafficking visas to the US. In 2012, 49 people from India got T2 visa meant for spouses of those who are trafficked and 79 people T3 visa (the children of those trafficked). In the same year, 130 T2 visas and 219 T3 visas were issued in the whole of Asia.

In 2011, the figure was 82 and 112 respectively for Indians in T2 and T3 category.

- See more at: http://www.hindustantimes.com/world-new ... traffickin g-visa-issue-with-kerry/article1-1175735.aspx#sthash.a4X1kB7Y.dpuf
That is what is puzzling. Based on these statistics there should have been lot more prosecutions of Indians for human trafficking but I do not recall having read about any. These numbers of visas should have raised a red flag in New Delhi but apparently did not. The only explanation is that New Delhi knew about these and did not raise any concern for whatever reason. One reason is that all these relate to one case which was touted as largest single case of human trafficking. But that relates to ship welders and fitters who were contracted in India and brought here on the promise of GCs but had to work in slave like conditions. That case was filed in 2010 and then you see all these T2, T3 visas in subsequent years.

One aspect is maybe groundwork was being laid for a new political movement based on exploitation of urban underclass by Government of India officials.
The gradual issuance of T visas has its own tale.
And then you have this high profile arrest of diplomat in New York.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 30 Jan 2014 01:02

As an informal opinion survey confirmed, it is an easy task to whip up sentiment against Govt Officials anywhere, and India is no exception. They don't help a lot with statements like *** is not just ANYBODY to be tossed in jail with COMMON criminals and drug addicts.

Which is why, in this case, a careful, sober analysis of the facts was required to bring out the truth. And the truth in this case is that it was a setup against "govt officials", and that said Officials are seen to have followed all law and common sense honestly, in good faith, and with due diligence. The only fault I can lay on them is that the babus in Dilli did not act faster and realize the setup. The delay in adjusting the official status of such workers, is inexcusable - esp, after seeing at least two prior cases, both of which were extortion incidents, not mistreatment incidents. A few musharrafs in Dilli need to feel the heat on that, but I suspect that the bottleneck is the Poojya Mantri Himself, not the babus.

Now what is needed is to invest a good amount in hiring a top law firm and PR firm, and prosecute these cases in India and in the US to the fullest extent, with excellent articulation of the case in the media. They can't just "settle" and "move on" etc. They have to convey a thorough whipping, every bit as intense as what PB threatened. 30 years from now, it should be seen as the time when India woke up and administered a lesson - that decent old-world hospitality and diplomacy are not to be mistaken for weakness, and that it still beats the antics of the bungling racist bullies.

The failure to stand firm has resulted in such outrages as the $M judgement against one Indian diplomat (who simply had to leave because the GOI did not back her in fighting that nonsense case) or the $250K bail and settlement demands of the extortionists here. SPEND the million - India has it - but to ensure a NEVER AGAIN lesson against messing with diplomats and violating the Geneva convention. The rest of the world watches with deep interest, and will thank India for doing this. At least some healthy respect based on fear will have been conveyed.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 30 Jan 2014 01:17

Shreeman wrote:
Amber G. wrote: Kudos to DK. (For most, it would have been so much easy to "settle" the case with a few thousand dollars instead of bravely standing for what is right).
Inferences drawn so far are weak, quite weak, and not really unsupported [sic - I assume you meant supported] by evidence. Wishful thinking and cultural leanings are involved in drawing them.

Regardless of your dismissive tone, the offer of settlements are quite supported by strong evidence. . The initial demand of $10,000 is not exactly "he said/she said/confidential" but well supported by documentary evidence.

The plea bargaining offer of dropping the visa fraud charges if DK pleads guilty to a lesser charge and a $100,000 (or so) fine, is again NOT something just speculated by media or a wishful thinking. These are something confirmed by the Lawyers who are actually involved.

True, settlements may not be what I think of them, and certainly not what you assume I think of them, they are what they are. They are not always some " random he said, she said just because you know of a few cases where some few people were wrong in some assumptions.

As to possible visa fraud case against SR and the likes, most who have taken time to look at the case, will believe, very strong evidence exist that SR made false statements in the application. Period.

Hope this helps.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 30 Jan 2014 02:19

UlanBatori wrote: Which is why, in this case, a careful, sober analysis of the facts was required to bring out the truth. And the truth in this case is that it was a setup against "govt officials", and that said Officials are seen to have followed all law and common sense honestly, in good faith, and with due diligence. The only fault I can lay on them is that the babus in Dilli did not act faster and realize the setup. The delay in adjusting the official status of such workers, is inexcusable - esp, after seeing at least two prior cases, both of which were extortion incidents, not mistreatment incidents. A few musharrafs in Dilli need to feel the heat on that, but I suspect that the bottleneck is the Poojya Mantri Himself, not the babus.

Now what is needed is to invest a good amount in hiring a top law firm and PR firm, and prosecute these cases in India and in the US to the fullest extent, with excellent articulation of the case in the media. They can't just "settle" and "move on" etc. They have to convey a thorough whipping, every bit as intense as what PB threatened. 30 years from now, it should be seen as the time when India woke up and administered a lesson - that decent old-world hospitality and diplomacy are not to be mistaken for weakness, and that it still beats the antics of the bungling racist bullies.

The failure to stand firm has resulted in such outrages as the $M judgement against one Indian diplomat (who simply had to leave because the GOI did not back her in fighting that nonsense case) or the $250K bail and settlement demands of the extortionists here. SPEND the million - India has it - but to ensure a NEVER AGAIN lesson against messing with diplomats and violating the Geneva convention. The rest of the world watches with deep interest, and will thank India for doing this. At least some healthy respect based on fear will have been conveyed.

Couldn't agree more!

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 30 Jan 2014 02:56

And then the GOI needs to do something unprecedented (for GOI): Extend their Outraged Modesty and Paki-like concern for Honor, Dignity and Sovirginity, to ALL INDIAN CITIZENS.

GOI has been notoriously weak-spined when it comes to standing up for INDIANs. That needs to change, drastically, before India is regarded as anything better than a banana republic. There is a reason that US and even British passports are regarded (at least if accompanied by certain skin color/religion connotations) with circumspection in many parts of the world: their GOVERNMENTS ACT if one messes with them. The recent case of the seaman/officer who was put in jail by some 6-th rate African dump, when he went to report piracy, is a case in point. The poojya Salman Kurshid points to his release after 6 months as a great victory for Indian diplomacy. A couple of Friendly Overflights over their Presidential Palace by a set of SU-30MKIs would, I submit, have brought home the young man in 3 days, and a reputation for that would have prevented the illegal arrest in the first place.

I say this, having been taught this as a child in SL. There was a time when certain elements in SL had a propensity for starting drunken pogroms against INDIANs. In fact my first visit to SL as a 3-month-old was with a military Guard of Honor: the train passengers were taken in a bus convoy with military escort across the SL jungle because the train tracks were not safe.

These intermittent riots came to a screeching halt when the last such riot started. And the cruiser INS Delhi came on a totally friendly visit in Colombo Harbor. I mean, INSTANT end to the riot - a sudden sobering up of the drunken rioters.

INDIAN INVASION!!!

This is called Gunboat Diplomacy. In those days, India had a young reputation built on the actions in Hyderabad etc. I think that was before "Panch Sheel" etc. Probably based on the stories of what the US and UK did after their "friendly visits" using Gunboat Diplomacy.
The Indian overflight of Jaffna in the 1980s was a well-intentioned effort, but by then India was considered toothless - and look at the horrible cost of that.

These PB types and the Southside District Officials are really no better than the drunken Sinhalese rioters and Sierra Leone Westside Boyz. Same mentality, same arrogance. Same remedy, in principle. Of course I am not suggesting sending Indian gunboats to impress New Yorkers. What is needed is precisely what the GOI has started with the "reciprocity" theme, but no one including me believes that GOI has the spine to follow through, and set that up as a PERMANENT lesson, not a temporary negotiating tactic before returning to genuflexion and sycophancy as the default operating strategy.

Already the Congressional Team has been invited back to Dilli, like a team of Roman Senators touring Occupied Jerusalem. Following up on the ban on Ranbaxy, etc. Hopeless!

Multatuli · Post by **Multatuli** » 30 Jan 2014 03:27

UlanBatori wrote:

Now what is needed is to invest a good amount in hiring a top law firm and PR firm, and prosecute these cases in India and in the US to the fullest extent, with excellent articulation of the case in the media. They can't just "settle" and "move on" etc. They have to convey a thorough whipping, every bit as intense as what PB threatened. 30 years from now, it should be seen as the time when India woke up and administered a lesson - that decent old-world hospitality and diplomacy are not to be mistaken for weakness, and that it still beats the antics of the bungling racist bullies.

The failure to stand firm has resulted in such outrages as the $M judgement against one Indian diplomat (who simply had to leave because the GOI did not back her in fighting that nonsense case) or the $250K bail and settlement demands of the extortionists here. SPEND the million - India has it - but to ensure a NEVER AGAIN lesson against messing with diplomats and violating the Geneva convention. The rest of the world watches with deep interest, and will thank India for doing this. At least some healthy respect based on fear will have been conveyed.

Yup, this would be the sensible course of action. The US behaved in a criminal fashion and they did this before to Indian diplomats. The US has crossed red lines which no country should ever be allowed to cross. This is a matter of principle, the US has to be forced to respect international norms. GoI has to be ready to spend USD 10 million or more if necessary in legal fees.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 30 Jan 2014 03:35

Amber G. wrote: Regardless of your ....ps.

Listen, there is only one wrong party in this chain of events. Doesnt take a genius to figure that out.

But I am no fan of batman traditions either. Both are discussions not appropriate for this time. Nor do my opinions matter now, or ever will. I intended neither a tone nor a conclusion.

There are some obvious issues for your attention re. the previous posts. For example, Ms richard at the discovery of absence could have been assigned to a different individual, or a desk job, or a leave of absence. reduces the vulnerability immediately. or immunity painted on dk forehead in big bold letters, or escorts assigned.

A rush to correct judgement based on technically useless documents can also make one look silly in retrospect. there is neither a timeline nor collection of documents handy to my knowledge. Perhaps you have paid more attention.

Re. settlement, it is unlikely any settlement could have resolved this matter as it should be. Or that settlements work at all to take any matter to its correct logical conclusion. If its a matter of principle, then settlement is not a word in your dictionary. If pragmatism is involved, then media should be absent.

Facts take years to emerge. Purely personal opinion and experience. Dont place your feet in too many boats at the same time. (source -- own feet stuck to more than one boat).

"strong" facts may not be conclusive or not admissible, media never presents the whole truth, and i am not an expert on anything anymore. thus my very high sodium intake and glad acceptance of prescription to dark corners.

to be a devil's advocate again, a less educated more vulnerable person may have been told they have to repay a certain amount. opponents may even have asked to suggest a number and terms for the discussion. counter-proposals may have been made. i dont know. how much control either woman had on the events once they spiraled is questionable. analyzing pawns does not describe a chess sttrategy. this was a back and forth. silly thing to have been attempted in the first place. if you ask for a number, you get a number. instead you get out of the glare, and let professionals handle any disputed fact -- that is the only correct way. you == family too. statements come from one professional source only. any other attention is poison.

actions and events are not right, nor appear to be defensible. but prudent analysis calls for information collection, and not inferences based on specifics right now.

(good demonstration of why cave living is beneficial, and close supervision by folks like ulanbatori is prescribed for some nutcases who sulk there)

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 30 Jan 2014 03:38

AmberG, I think you (was it) mentioned that SR had absconded with $200, a cellphone and some documents. What documents, do you know, by any chance? Since she apparently did not even take her own Dear Diary, making it look like a rather hurried exit - or one done on very specific instructions to stall any confirmation that it was a voluntary disappearance. Ophishial desi secrets? That puts the whole thing in a very different light, doesn't it?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 30 Jan 2014 03:49

UB, On Dec 18th I wrote:

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 1#p1560641

and on Dec 23rd:

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 9#p1564009

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 30 Jan 2014 04:28

Shreeman wrote: [...discussions not appropriate...]Nor do my opinions matter now, or ever will..

Agree with that..

Shreeman wrote:Listen,...

Why??? (I mean, specially rest of the long ramble consist of you opinion..only)
Peace. Last from me about batman and caves.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 30 Jan 2014 04:38

UlanBatori wrote:AmberG, I think you (was it) mentioned that SR had absconded with $200, a cellphone and some documents. What documents, do you know, by any chance? Since she apparently did not even take her own Dear Diary, making it look like a rather hurried exit - or one done on very specific instructions to stall any confirmation that it was a voluntary disappearance. Ophishial desi secrets? That puts the whole thing in a very different light, doesn't it?

UBji - No I did not mention that. (Virtually all of my posts "facts" are just quotes from link clearly given..

)

I do remember - Per lawyers of safe horizons mention something to the effect that she (SR) left with nothing more than clothes on her.. even her passport was not allowed to be with her, so she can't even go back to India etc..

Per news reports, ... when DK or her lawyer (along with a few MEA/Consular people) met in person, they offered her a paid ticket to India, along with the passport. SR refused. She wanted DK's help in getting regular passport so she can stay in US..

Sangeeta's attorney and a law firm called Access Immigration, asking her to come for a face-to-face negotiation. Devyani and other consulate officers went and gave Sangeeta a flight ticket to return to India, which she refused to accept

(Link: eg: http://www.manoramaonline.com/cgi-bin/M ... &BV_ID=@@@

Prior to that, of course:

“When I decided to come to the United States, my hope was to work for a few years to support my family and then return to India. I never thought that things would get so bad here, that I would work so much that I did not have time to sleep or eat or have time to myself. Because of this treatment, I requested that I return to India but that request was denied.” – Sangeeta Richard

Link:http://www.safehorizon.org/index/pressr ... t-219.html

saip · Post by **saip** » 30 Jan 2014 04:42

UlanBatori wrote:AmberG, I think you (was it) mentioned that SR had absconded with $200, a cellphone and some documents. What documents, do you know, by any chance? Since she apparently did not even take her own Dear Diary, making it look like a rather hurried exit - or one done on very specific instructions to stall any confirmation that it was a voluntary disappearance. Ophishial desi secrets? That puts the whole thing in a very different light, doesn't it?

Let me take a guess. I know she did take her passport (there was a reference to it somewhere). But more importantly I think she also took the copy of the second contract with her. Otherwise I am not sure how Mr Smith came to know of its contents. Either SR took it with her and gave it to Mr Smith or SR's husband in India had a copy (remember he was one of the witnesses) and sent it over. Now without that contract there was absolutely no ground for visa fraud except she said, he said and I worked million hours and she did not work even 40 hours etc. All this puts paid to the claim that SR left with just clothes on her back.

saip · Post by **saip** » 30 Jan 2014 04:50

Amber G, I remember reading that when DK found SR missing she went to her room and found her passport missing and only then decided to file police complaint. I don't remember where I read it but it was during the past few days. Her attorney's claim that she did not have her passport could be because the Indian Consulate cancelled it and then at the meeting they might have offered to restore it, but SR refused to accept that.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 30 Jan 2014 04:56

Another few tidbits, sorry if posted before, but I did not notice it:

1. DK had a lot of trouble filing the missing person's report. NY police in the beginning try to tell her that only a family member can file a report.

2. Later when DK insisted, (after sending a few emails), they said they have to "inspect DK's residence" which DK probably did not allow so

3. The report was filed out side UN Mission building where the interview by the police took place.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahome/in ... ident.html

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 30 Jan 2014 04:56

Per news reports, ... when DK or her lawyer (along with a few MEA/Consular people) met in person, they offered her a paid ticket to India, along with the passport. SR refused. She wanted DK's help in getting regular passport so she can stay in US..

Why would SR want to go back to India and face turmped up charges arranged by DK et al?

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 30 Jan 2014 04:59

^^^ You (we) may like to ask this to her attorneys..at safe horizon's

But according to them: Her statement is what is shown above by me.

http://www.safehorizon.org/index/pressr ... t-219.html

Besides, if they are trumped up charges, what has she to fear .. India is a nation of laws just like US.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 30 Jan 2014 05:00

TSJones wrote:Why would SR want to go back to India and face turmped up charges arranged by DK et al?

You don't get to decide what you want to do, on an official passport. You're functionally an agent of the government on government duty. The case is no different from a GotUS official or a member of military, all of whom travel on official passports. You don't get to decide that you looove Spangdahlem or Yokosuka and want to stay back. Government tells you to report back => you report back. There's no leeway. Doesn't matter if there's any 'trumped up charge' facing her; she's not in the US in an individual capacity in the first place.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 30 Jan 2014 05:03

DK called Hubby in Dilli to ask about disappearance, and asked HIM to file missing person report (since NYC polis said only family member could). He refused, which was proof of conspiracy in an illegal alien scheme. It was after this that the MEA asked DK to file charges in Dilli, since there was solid proof that it was a conspiracy, and "the husband was not cooperating".

Of course such proof would an attention span > that of a 3-year old to understand....

saip · Post by **saip** » 30 Jan 2014 05:04

TSJones wrote:
Per news reports, ... when DK or her lawyer (along with a few MEA/Consular people) met in person, they offered her a paid ticket to India, along with the passport. SR refused. She wanted DK's help in getting regular passport so she can stay in US..
Why would SR want to go back to India and face turmped up charges arranged by DK et al?

You make me laugh. I guess you only like trumped charges if made by US but not by India.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 30 Jan 2014 05:09

saip wrote:Amber G, I remember reading that when DK found SR missing she went to her room and found her passport missing and only then decided to file police complaint. I don't remember where I read it but it was during the past few days. Her attorney's claim that she did not have her passport could be because the Indian Consulate cancelled it and then at the meeting they might have offered to restore it, but SR refused to accept that.

You are probably right and it makes sense. Her passport was indeed revoked later..

As for what items were missing.. per police report etc..

Police said Singh reported that Richard had stolen property from his home and he asked to file a grand larceny complaint against her, but he could not identify the missing items. An officer sent him home to get a list of the missing items and their monetary value, explaining that grand larceny complaints require itemized documentation of at least $1000 worth of property. Police said Singh never returned and didn't respond to a follow-up call.

Per DK;s attorney:

Singh did in fact provide police with a list of the items on July 8. Arshack said Singh is not overly familiar with US laws, denies using the term grand larceny and thought he was simply reporting a theft to police.

http://www.firstpost.com/world/timeline ... ef_article

Another gem from above, it seems that: (per DK's lawyer)

there was this last face-to-face meeting between the two women before DK's arrest. During the encounter, Khobragade urges Richard to honor her visa requirement and return to India (while Richard demands cash and new immigration documents. The meeting grows so contentious that Access Immigration officials who are present call New York police to escort Richard out of the room. Access Immigration has declined comment other than to say the group is no longer working on Richard's case.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 30 Jan 2014 05:32

So Access Immigration lost interest when the $10K extortion scam fell flat. DK refused to take the bait (otherwise it would have been a charge of paying a bribe, helping in a visa scam (converting an official passport to ordinary etc). So then they went the PB route via Safe Horizons. The arrest etc. are blatant "official" support for extortion. If properly investigated, grounds for some serious Organized Crime charges against Access Immigration, PB, Safe Horizons and SD officials.