IN FACT, the tubelight just went on

IANAL. The terms appear to have been modified to hold on to the money. It is not a big deal. Cant compare different systems. This process is not setup to stop at this point, except in the rarest of cases where major goof-up (bigger than this) is self-evident. This is not that incompetent. Burden remains on defense at all times. IANAL.UlanBatori wrote:So does the bail money get forfeited or returned? Why it is required for the defendant to be present for the case? Note that Italy just tried (and convicted and sentenced) one American for murder and 23 for State-Sponsored Kidnapping, and none were present in court. The other murder defendant was present, but tried to escape Italy before the verdict/sentence, but was caught at the border. One of the 23 kidnapping convicts was found and arrested in Panama per demand from Italy, but before he could be extradited, he was "evacuated" by Paco's friends.
Actually, we here at the Cracker Barrel want to visit the Taj Mahal, ride an elephant and see a tiger. If we can get airconditioned hotel rooms. We'll also want plenty of ice and potable water to drink. And flush toilets.Raja Bose wrote:Is that a crime in the USA? Do the Cracker Barrel preferred customers feel its a crime?TSJones wrote: He probably has more than a few servants here in the US.
What is with the adversarial tones and taunting going on here on both sides? Cant we get along a little better? Difficult subjects arise even between siblings. It feels like there are 5-year olds arguing. And where there should be 5-year olds arguing, there are attempts at asking serious questions! The playground is marked very well, let us smoke in the smoking section.TSJones wrote:Is that a crime in the USA? Do the Cracker Barrel preferred customers feel its a crime?Raja Bose wrote: He probably has more than a few servants here in the US.
Actually, we here at the Cracker Barrel want to visit the Taj Mahal, ride an elephant and see a tiger. If we can get airconditioned hotel rooms.
TSJ: I personally want you to keep posting, just not those short sentences. The same applies for Raja Bose.TSJones wrote:OK, I will stop posting on this thread. Thanks.
I take it that the prof. says, a prosecutor has to apply some discretion (as prosecutor are duty bound to do).. with finite resources you spend effort to prosecute Time Square Bomber rather than something trivial or not that serious.I wonder what Prof. Bhide means by this. Does he mean that they should not have been allowed to become presidents or that some people are above the law and lowly attorney cannot and should not apply the law to these elites (two of them themselves are lawyers educated at elite universities of the country and one of them is able to parse the English language better then the English).Prof. Amar Bhide wrote:If our drug laws were fully enforced, for example, the current president and his two predecessors would be convicted felons.
As UB already pointed out, and search of brf pages will show, first mention of DK as a diplomat in BRF was after the arrest.That pot shot at the diplomat makes it clear that he thinks some people ...Prof. Amar Bhide wrote:he booked an obscure Indian diplomat
Prof. Amar Bhide wrote:And just for the record: while I am a professor at a school of Law and Diplomacy, Im not a lawyer and I look at things mainly through the lens of business and economics
Where are snake charmers. We want our snake charmers and charming cobrasTSJones wrote:Actually, we here at the Cracker Barrel want to visit the Taj Mahal, ride an elephant and see a tiger.
OK. Let us move on.Amber G. wrote: As UB already pointed out, and search of brf pages will show, first mention of DK as a diplomat in BRF was after the arrest.
Quoted for truth. It isn't easy to get hard evidence against some of these wall street types. Of all the crimes that Al Capone committed, the only charge they could pin on him was tax evasion. No murder charges, no extortion charges, nothing of that sort, because the man operated in such a manner that he had plausible deniability for everything else.UlanBatori wrote:I cannot blame PB for (yet) failing to nail other top entities. It is just not easy to get evidence that will stand up all the way to the Supreme Courts, which is a given if he gets any conviction at all. Remember that the guy who trapped Al Capone, did so on tax evasion because there were signed forms submitted (or not submitted).
Sir, I meant the hosts being US citizens in case of au pairs, are not called exploiters or slave drivers, or whatever labels DK was smeared with. Corrected my post above.UlanBatori wrote:Not sure I understand what you meant. The au pairs themselves are not US citizens, they are European women imported into servitude. The "hosts" are typically US families, and there is an equivalent system in UK. I think these systems were started after the system of importing "au pairs" from West Africa was sort-of stopped in UK, and maybe after 1865 in the US.except that it is restricted to citizens (maybe that's why it is not slavery?)
Nothing, as a practical matter. Probably a food safety course in the local community college?UlanBatori wrote:Interesting language:Oh! An UPPER limit?UPTO $500 towards education?
What "education" can what one buy for $500 in the US for a teenaged Oiropean woman?
Absolutely. The WSJ article I linked said that a US child care worker typically is 2-3 times more expensive than au pair, and another related WSJ article said that the author saved $2000 a month by shifting to the au pair program.UlanBatori wrote:If the au pair Resources site (I linked above) describes them as a low-cost alternative for childcare, definitely that means they are paid less than US citizen childcare workers.
Oh absolutely. Can't manage without servants - but why is Uncle Tom Bharara and the US diplomatic community not going after him? Maybe they're scared of quid pro quo in this diplomatic immunity business? American diplomats can't smuggle cold beefburgers and Chinese pearls for illegal sale in American embassies if the US gets too serious.TSJones wrote: He probably has more than a few servants here in the US.
+1, Video conferencing is always a practical optionUlanBatori wrote:IN FACT, the tubelight just went on , and explains the WHY of the arrest and following pleasantries. It is precisely to frighten the victim into NOT APPEARING in court. Then the likely outcome is "no contest" (nolo contendre per my fine legal training from listening to my Dutch friend who was caught for DUI many saal pehle) leading to a verdict in favor of the muggers, and a very large, disproportionate monetary award (like $1M for the earlier Indian Consulate maid). This completes the modus operandi of the State-Sponsored Mugging.
I am not allowed to bring mangoes into the USA. Why should these US diplomats allowed to bring beef burgers into India?shiv wrote:Oh absolutely. Can't manage without servants - but why is Uncle Tom Bharara and the US diplomatic community not going after him? Maybe they're scared of quid pro quo in this diplomatic immunity business? American diplomats can't smuggle cold beefburgers and Chinese pearls for illegal sale in American embassies if the US gets too serious.TSJones wrote: He probably has more than a few servants here in the US.
No that is not premised on Diplomatic immunity of DCG. Premises of Consular Offices/Missions/Embassies and Residence of Consular/Diplomats are considered Foreign Land of the respective country and except for emergencies like fire or earthquakes etc or with express permission of the Head of Mission , local authorities can not enter it. Please read relevant provision of VCCR and VCDR. Why do you think DK was arrested on the Street and not in her residence or at the Consulate?matrimc wrote:
That is premised on DCG was under the cloak of diplomatic immunity. Which is India's argument. On the other hand it would be admissible if Attorney PB's contention that she does not enjoy immunity is accepted.
Here is what I think. As long as India/DCG/attorneyAshrachArshack are arguing that DCG had immunity, what PB does is completely irrelevant. He has put a the legal process in motion and I doubt he has a chioce other than to push it forward. It is in the power of DoS to resolve the deadlock.
But what has been revealed yesterday (and the Indian Express story you posted) point to DoS thinks that there is no immunity. In that case , DCG DK is wide open for prosecution.
If it gets to a trial, which is where this sort of thing is relevant, then way too much would already have gone wrong, and little hope left of a harmonious resolution -- win or lose. And "slavery" is a simple concept to explain, GoI procedures are not.TKiran wrote:The burden of proof is on PB to show that DK personally and willfully lied to VO on DS160.
When I submitted DS160 to VO, I signed on a declaration that nobody assisted me on the preparation of the form, and I personally am responsible for any false information. Hope that is the same format submitted by SR to VO. In that case, DK's lawyer should submit that though the DS160 was submitted from DK's computer, DK does not have any responsibility for the correctness of the form and SR is the person who lied to VO. Also burden of proof is on PB to show that DK was not working for UN at the time of her arrest, as whatever the burden ofproof was on DK was already submitted to the xourt as the UN identity card, which was reluctantly accepted by PB as a genuine one but doubtful only if she was actually working for UN. We can argue that asDK was getting distracted with additional responsibility as DCG, GoI decided to transfer her to UN permanent mission as her role in UN has been very satisfactory, anyways PB doesnt have any business to comment on what GoI Foreig. Office should do to its employee. Also
Also it is none of PB's business to comment on what SR was doing in Consulate of India, if she was cleaning toilets in in CGI or working as Nanny. She is an employee of GoI and not a personal employee of DK. Period.
Burden of Proof is always on the prosecutor and that of rebuttal on the defendant.TKiran wrote:The burden of proof is on PB to show that DK personally and willfully lied to VO on DS160.
When I submitted DS160 to VO, I signed on a declaration that nobody assisted me on the preparation of the form, and I personally am responsible for any false information. Hope that is the same format submitted by SR to VO. In that case, DK's lawyer should submit that though the DS160 was submitted from DK's computer, DK does not have any responsibility for the correctness of the form and SR is the person who lied to VO. Also burden of proof is on PB to show that DK was not working for UN at the time of her arrest, as whatever the burden ofproof was on DK was already submitted to the xourt as the UN identity card, which was reluctantly accepted by PB as a genuine one but doubtful only if she was actually working for UN. We can argue that asDK was getting distracted with additional responsibility as DCG, GoI decided to transfer her to UN permanent mission as her role in UN has been very satisfactory, anyways PB doesnt have any business to comment on what GoI Foreig. Office should do to its employee. Also
Also it is none of PB's business to comment on what SR was doing in Consulate of India, if she was cleaning toilets in in CGI or working as Nanny. She is an employee of GoI and not a personal employee of DK. Period.
Saar, these are useful stats, could you please share the source link? I couldn't find these numbers on the FBI's crime stats site. In any case, we at BR need to have such ready refs to counter the rape/violence against women narrative that is being built up gratuitously for India.VijayKM wrote:
14,827 murders i.e one every 40 minutes
84,376 rapes i.e one every 7 minutes
3,54,520 robberies i.e one every 90 seconds
760,739 assaults i.e one every 45 seconds
89,75,438 property crimes i.e 17 crimes every second
These are US crime statistics from FBI for 2012 and these do not even include crime stats of other law enforcement agencies/ unreported crimes.
No that is not the case. If he argues like that he would be laughed at. There is a reason why US did not arrest DK from her home i.e. besides teaching lessons. Even 400 marines can not protect 10X US diplomats in India.matrimc wrote:Chaanakya
It is certainly within the realm if possibility that PB would argue that DCGs residence is not out of bounds. If the immunity which flows from the same VCCR is denied by DoS why not this as well? I still say that what PB does is of no consequence as well as whether former DCG is found guilty/not guilty (other than at a personal level for Ms. DK). If the case is not dismissed, it abundantly clear that GOTUS feels that it is not bound by VCCR. The minutiae may be of great interestto lawyers but they are not important with regard to long term strategic relations. Real politik and all that.
Hmm! Time to apply my vast experience of making judicial decishuns to this deep mattar.burden of proof is on PB to show that DK was not working for UN at the time of her arrest, as whatever the burden ofproof was on DK was already submitted to the xourt as the UN identity card, which was reluctantly accepted by PB as a genuine one but doubtful only if she was actually working for UN. We can argue that asDK was getting distracted with additional responsibility as DCG, GoI decided to transfer her to UN permanent mission as her role in UN has been very satisfactory, anyways PB doesnt have any business to comment on what GoI Foreig. Office should do to its employee. Also it is none of PB's business to comment on what SR was doing in Consulate of India, if she was cleaning toilets in in CGI or working as Nanny. She is an employee of GoI and not a personal employee of DK. Period.
(the rest was even more Classified Top Secret, I won't write it here, pls see Snowden/Wikileasks files). This was in the days when they HAD work to be done, i.e., b4 they "outsourced" the tough job of misspelling one's name on the Passport and putting those two stamps on it.Oh, Ramesh, isn't that goldfish in that bowl oooooo soooooo cuuuuuuute, na? Sooo sweet of youuuuu!
IANAL. Narrow scope of proceedings, only reasonable "victimhood" of SR needed to proceed. procedural actions eg arrest not being discussed. Happy to be wrong and for all this to be over. But likely not monday. IANAL. dont quote me on it.UlanBatori wrote:burden of proof is ....
Lisa wrote:TSJ, it would be unfortunate to lose a native voice in the thread. Please post.
Over 10 years ago they were building a temple in London and brought over artisans from India, under contracts willingly signed in India.to assist with building work-primarily stonemasons. It transpired later during an audit that the agreed wage was incompatible with the minimum wage in the UK. Inland Revenue approached the temple advised them of this fact and they in turn agreed to top up their pay-pack to comply with UK legislation.
Everybody happy particularly the stonemasons who were paid considerably more then they were asking/expecting.
Look carefully, no arrest needed, no cavity searching done, nobody needed any diplomatic immunity, no TX visa issued, do diplomatic expulsions, no real incident. So much goodwill that every PM in office since has been invited and received at the temple and MP's of all sides regularly visit the institution. Prince Charles was there last year.
Compare and contrast an American reaction from available options!
Sorry TSJ, plain simple stupidity from a state department that barely knows it ar@e from its elbow.
P.S this is the same State Department that has now decided to realise that Modi is a possibility, some 18 months behind a similar UK reaction. What exactly do they understand of India from all the intelligence they gather?
I wonder if US diplomats have any sort of training in diplomacy or they simply employ some selected sycophants to fill posts.chetak wrote: The third grade diplomutts (trailer trash or rednecks) that the SD deigns to send to India seem more focused on bible thumping, protein intake and water buffalo meat.
Seems that they have no time for productive culture sensitive, diplomatic, trade and economic pursuits in India but getting raped for decades by the pakis at every turn is OK by them.
We have to be shown (generally by ABCDs) as bad third world for them to reinforce their own first world stereo typing.
I think they have none. A couple of examples and then i exit. After the Camp David accord was signed Carter visited Egypt. On arrival in an Islamic country he was greeted by Sadat and his wife and in his wisdom he kissed Sadat's wife. Many of the Brotherhood after killing Sadat cited this one event as the last straw, another man kissing your wife. Sadat was now a complete sell-out and bull cutlet. Most Americans reading this paragraph wont even understand what I am saying.shiv wrote:I wonder if US diplomats have any sort of training in diplomacy or they simply employ some selected sycophants to fill posts.chetak wrote: The third grade diplomutts (trailer trash or rednecks) that the SD deigns to send to India seem more focused on bible thumping, protein intake and water buffalo meat.
Seems that they have no time for productive culture sensitive, diplomatic, trade and economic pursuits in India but getting raped for decades by the pakis at every turn is OK by them.
We have to be shown (generally by ABCDs) as bad third world for them to reinforce their own first world stereo typing.