Positive News from the USA

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 02 Feb 2014 17:26

Daily diet:
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Festive-noises:
1,
2,
3,
4,
5,
6,
7,
8,
9,
10.

Surprise romance:
1,
2,
3,
4,
5,
6,
7,
8,
9,
10.

Good News, everyone!

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 02 Feb 2014 18:39

shiv wrote:Well CIA aqints could be dumb hicks as they were during the Bay of Pigs fiasco and the hostage rescue from Iran. Maybe this episode could be called the Oink of Pigs fiasco.

Our goal is to make all Indian servants CIA agents with Pakistani supervisors to guide them. Just to keep the Pakistanis in line we'll have raymond davis in charge of them. you know. the guy who shoots first and ask questions later? That will have you crying over those poor Pakistanis. Not fair, eh?

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 02 Feb 2014 19:26

Right on! Raymond Davis can now be ably assisted by Mr. Lady of italy-Panama Evacuation fame, and his 22 Braves equally~~desired~~wanted in Italy

Sonugn · Post by **Sonugn** » 02 Feb 2014 21:56

US achieves major mile stone in women's protection, Pagan Rice eaters need to learn

http://tinyurl.com/kxn2rr9

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 02 Feb 2014 22:36

Wow! Vegetarianism is THAT prevalent in the US of A?

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 02 Feb 2014 23:52

No Sirjee, Paco's memsahib made it very clear in her fatwa: respect for women is practiced only by vegetarians in India. American respect for their women is the product of red-meat consumption - therefore the respect levels are higher in the US.

Final proof that Red >>> Green

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 03 Feb 2014 17:21

That temple of wisdom, Johns Hopkins, shows a researcher where to get off by pushing him off

A PhD student called Rajesh Kumar develops code to be used in robotic surgery such as the Da Vinci surgical robot and that is part of his thesis in 2001. The diagrams and code are available to some friendly researchers and the same stuff is published by the "friendlies" a few years later as original work with the same diagram with a few cosmetic changes. Even the proportions of the oval boxes and their relative positions have not been changed. (Image below).

Out of sheer gratitude to the PhD student Johns Hopkins pulled down his website and does other kind things like fiddling with the data on his health insurance.

Here is Rajesh Kumar's PhD thesis image and the plagiarized one for comparison

The web page says:

Authors for the top part had access to the bottom image and its editable code, the robot hardware and the software. The first author had been in Baltimore for only a few days! If you think there is any way in the world these can still be independent, let me know. If you think the top is copied from the bottom, let me know. It can't be the other around (bottom copied from the top), the timeline does not allow it. IF you think the differences (marked) make ANY difference at all, let me know too.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 03 Feb 2014 18:09

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 03 Feb 2014 20:08

Rec'd from FP via email

Last of Libya's Chemical Arms Destroyed - Neuj ij Pojitive but we don't know what collateral damage took place? Maybe a few vultures?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Libya: The remaining stores of former Libyan leader Muammar al-Qaddafi's chemical weapons have been destroyed. Over the past three months, Libyan contractors working in secret used portable ovens in the Libyan desert to destroy the final two tons of Libya's chemical arsenal.

Touted as a success story as the United States prepares for the more difficult task of disposing of Syria's larger chemical weapon stocks, the announcement marks the end of a process that began in 2004 when Qaddafi turned over cache to the international community. At that time, Libya declared 24.7 metric tons of sulfur mustard, though an additional two tons, already loaded into shells and rockets, was found after the Qaddafi's fall. When the war broke out in 2011, roughly half of the country's declared stock had been destroyed.

The project of destroying the final two tons relied on a custom-built oven, called a static-detonation chamber, which heated the munitions to between 750 and 1,000 degrees Fahrenheit. Syria has agreed to destroy 1,300 tons of chemical weapons.

Meanwhile back at the Afghan Ranch where the world is a toilet

Exclusive: An investigation into whether top Marine Corps officers may have illegally classified evidence in a war crimes case has found new life as a top civilian official has become involved in the case, Foreign Policy has learned. John Fitzgerald, the director of the U.S. Information Security Oversight Office in Washington, has met with a Marine Corps lawyer regarding the classification of a video of snipers apparently urinating on the corpses of Taliban insurgents in Afghanistan, which caused a firestorm when released in January of 2012. Maj. James Weirick, a Marine lawyer, has claimed that Gen. James Amos or people acting on his behalf meddled in the prosecution of the snipers and classified information to cover up the involvement of Marine Corps Leadership.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 03 Feb 2014 20:08

Soldiers of USA upholding basic civil liberties guaranteed for all, especially in SE Asia during wars with official backing thereby also setting up Rest and Recreational facilities in several SEAsian countries.

This influx of money was due to the fact that the U.S. government wanted to fund the Rest and Recreation sites in order to ensure good morale among the soldiers. However, the American government knew that the money could not be directly invested for fear that they would be held accountable for perpetuating the cycle of military base prostitution. Therefore, the United States and Thailand solicited a number of international investors such as Chase Manhattan Corporation and Bank of America Corporation to “loan” money to the Thai government. These moneys (approximately $4 million) were loaned under the pretense of investing in Thai hotels, bars, and restaurants. In reality, the laundered money funded the construction of numerous Rest and Recreation sites.

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 03 Feb 2014 20:12

Rec'd from FP via email

<deleted as duplicate>

ManjaM · Post by **ManjaM** » 03 Feb 2014 20:27

This whole Dr DK incident has been a major wake up and smell the coffee event for me. The Positive News dhaga is like followup straight shots of espresso. Hallelujah, this melanin empowered, protein deficient, knock kneed balathkaari has seen the light.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 03 Feb 2014 20:57

TSJones wrote:Yes, all those Indian doctors held in slavery. What a horrible thought..

I pity their servants that's for sure.

The really funny thing about doctors is that eventually, someone else is going to suffer if you screw with them. And America has told one more lie to the world when it claims that they have the best doctors and most advanced medical care - a lie on the same lines as the "Liberty" in America.

Doctors, Indians or not, are not as happy a bunch as is made out to be by the propaganda that you seem to believe, but the numbers are so unbelievable that people think doctors have it really easy. A classmate of mine now in the US told me that his expenses are so high that if he makes 250,001 and one dollars a year - he has made one dollar for himself, because 250,000 is his expenses.

Anyhow here is an article for the Positive News USA thread
http://www.forbes.com/sites/susanadams/ ... ob-choice/
Why Do So Many Doctors Regret Their Job Choice?

The latest version of an annual survey from Medscape/Web M.D., shows dissatisfaction among U.S. doctors rising. In an online questionnaire of 24,000 doctors representing 25 specialties,only 54%, said they would choose medicine again as a career, down from 69% in 2011. Just 41% would choose the same specialty again. Only a quarter of doctors said they would choose the same practice setting, compared with 50% a year ago.

Why such frustration and discontent among physicians? The Medscape survey cites declining incomes, excessive paperwork, and vast uncertainty about changes dictated by the Affordable Care Act.

David Korn, a former dean of medicine at Stanford and former vice president at the Association of American Medical Colleges says that, although it’s a “third rail” for the Republican party and for many doctors, the lack of a single payer system is responsible for much of the frustration. Especially for patients over 65, doctors must fill out multiple layers of insurance forms. A single elderly patient can have Medicare, and then secondary and tertiary insurance coverage, all of which require separate forms. “It’s a crushing burden that no doctor enjoys,” says Korn. According to the survey, 33% of doctors spend more than 10 hours a week on paperwork and administration.
12 images Photos: The Worst-Paying Jobs For Doctors Jacquelyn Smith Jacquelyn Smith Forbes Staff
Obamacare Billionaire: What 1 Entrepreneur's Rise Says About The Future Of Medicine Matthew Herper Matthew Herper Forbes Staff

The Medscape survey also describes how hospitals are buying up private practices both in primary care and other specialties. This makes some doctors feel less independent and discouraged, says Howard Forman, a professor at the Yale School of Management who researches diagnostic radiology, health policy and healthcare leadership. “The transformation of the field from independence and professionalism to being commoditized and feeling like you’re just another worker is disheartening to some,” he says.

Korn and Forman both say that many doctors are concerned about the way doctors will be paid under the Affordable Care Act. The Act mandates that Affordable Care Organizations (ACOs) will receive payment from insurers, and the ACOs will divvy up the money among doctors and hospitals. Many doctors worry that their reimbursements will come down under this system, since they will no longer directly receive fees for services. Forman points out that the ACOs are also aimed at reducing inefficient services but, he points out, “somebody is providing those services and making money off them.” Many medical professionals are nervous that their jobs will be deemed unnecessary.

The Medscape survey documents declining compensation in a number of specialties, like general surgery, which is down 12%, orthopedic surgery, down 10% and radiology, also down 10%. But Forman points out that doctors are still among the best-compensated professionals in the U.S. Forman posits that some doctors may feel remorse about their job choice because they see their peers in finance or other lines of business, making far more than they do. “Physicians have not gotten poorer over the last decade,” he says. “But more and more you’re witnessing physicians who feel they could have done better if they had done something different.”

Forman also takes issue with the survey’s point about paperwork. “I don’t think that’s changed since 1982, when managed care became a dominant force and Medicare became more complicated,” he says. Nevertheless, he concedes that doctors do a great deal of paperwork.

What does this all mean for the future of medicine and the number of young people aspiring to become doctors? Korn is concerned about the short term. “Having great numbers of physicians unhappy, disgruntled, who can’t wait to retire, is not a great promotion for the profession,” he notes. That said, he notes that the number of medical schools in the U.S. continues to rise, as do the number of med school applicants.

One problem that has already manifested itself: Fewer medical students are going into lower-paying specialties like family and internal medicine.

Forman believes that surveys like Medscape’s are a healthy contribution to the field. “People should have a better notion of what they’re getting into,” he says, “rather than a fantastic view of what they watched on a TV show.” If young people pursue the profession with full knowledge of what’s in store, “they’ll be more satisfied than if they believe they’re going to be thanked every 15 minutes,” says Forman. “It’s a tough job.”

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 03 Feb 2014 21:30

Shiv:

shiv wrote:A classmate of mine now in the US told me that his expenses are so high that if he makes 250,001 and one dollars a year - he has made one dollar for himself, because 250,000 is his expenses.

Gastro-Enterologists make $450K PA, Neurosurgeons a $1 million a year. All doctors and their spouses drive high-end fully loaded BMW, Merc, Lexus, Audi SUVs. Doctors' remuneration is 33% of the total healthcare spend. A measly 15% goes towards drugs but AMA shouts from the rooftops that big pharma is the real culprit. Even small hospitals have the latest equipment and since they are non-profits, they get lot of tax-breaks on real estate taxes from the local city/county governments. The profits are given out for studies and verification of the latest cutting edge "in the labs" diagnostic equipment which has little chance of going any where. But doctors of course have their own private for-profit LLCs and work as consultants to the hospital which they own. They own nice offices, all-expense paid junkets, gifts from pharma, first-class air travel domestic and international. The rest 50% goes into maintaining the hospitals, equipment, payroll to nurses, support staff, etc. What are the salaries of nurses and other healthcare professionals? They are peanuts - a highly-qualified experienced nurse would get may be $70 K just before retirement. A technician would get may be $35K. All these people would get healthcare benefits as a big group which the doctors can be a part of and get good low-premium health insurance as well. Since they own the non-profit hospitals, they can write the rules even if they have LLCs on the side. Hospitals used to have triage nurses with whom one can talk and resolve issues on the phone instead of going to the emergency for every small thing but to cut costs these positions have been eliminated for efficiency reasons.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 03 Feb 2014 22:19

^^^ Relevant:

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/magazi ... php?page=1

RUC is an abomination and the reason why some specialties are waaaay overpaid in the USofA, but hey, corruption exists only in the heathens and not in the land of phree home of the prave.

Since I have a ton of money invested in the USofA in one form or the other, things like the above literally give me sleepless nights. Its following a hardly sustainable trajectory by doing the only thing it can do to be able to sustain it: by being predatory. Cannot imagine what it will be when everything comes crashing down.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 03 Feb 2014 22:31

Matrimc, you have written only the bositive neuj about doctors. there is plenty of bad news as well. Don't know if you are a doctor but I am in regular contact with a group of alumni that include scores of US based doctors, starting from residents to millionaires. The older ones, who have gone past the initial career building and personal life building parts of their lives give a different picture.

The money that doctors earn looks attractive to everyone who is not earning that money, and some doctors too are at the forefront of comparing cars and houses and second wives in social gatherings. But they pay a heavy price and you don't get to hear about the ones who are paying that price. Only the flashy car types are visible. Healthcare in the US is not heading in a healthy direction IMO. Medical care has been commoditized by people who can only be called drain brains. That is not good. Those people who are sending their kids all over the place to make them doctors based on the reputation that doctors become wealthy are not necessarily doing their children a big favour.

i was recently talking to the NRI mother of a young Indian American doctor who was gushing about the car her son would own after he finishes his residency and at one stage I had to tell her that she would be better off wishing for a son who was mentally and physically healthy, happy and contented rather than go on and on about what he might buy. Only sheer ignorance of medicine make people say such things

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 03 Feb 2014 22:45

All doctors and their spouses drive high-end fully loaded BMW, Merc, Lexus, Audi SUVs.

NOW u tell me!!!

Had I known this when I was coaxing and cajoling my ancient 1990s vintage Yak-kord along the Slik Road in Ulan Bator the other din, I would have been sooo much more relieved. This meant that when my yak spun off the road into the ditch in 5 deg. F weather, I would be met by DOCTORS (don't know what good it would have done to meet their spouses.. no comment). Because there were sooo many high-end Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, Mercedes, Jaguar, Audi SUV, did I mention Mercedes? in the ditches on both sides.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 04 Feb 2014 00:08

matrimc wrote:Shiv:
shiv wrote:A classmate of mine now in the US told me that his expenses are so high that if he makes 250,001 and one dollars a year - he has made one dollar for himself, because 250,000 is his expenses.
Gastro-Enterologists make $450K PA, Neurosurgeons a $1 million a year. All doctors and their spouses drive high-end fully loaded BMW, Merc, Lexus, Audi SUVs. Doctors' remuneration is 33% of the total healthcare spend. A measly 15% goes towards drugs but AMA shouts from the rooftops that big pharma is the real culprit. Even small hospitals have the latest equipment and since they are non-profits, they get lot of tax-breaks on real estate taxes from the local city/county governments. The profits are given out for studies and verification of the latest cutting edge "in the labs" diagnostic equipment which has little chance of going any where. But doctors of course have their own private for-profit LLCs and work as consultants to the hospital which they own. They own nice offices, all-expense paid junkets, gifts from pharma, first-class air travel domestic and international. The rest 50% goes into maintaining the hospitals, equipment, payroll to nurses, support staff, etc. What are the salaries of nurses and other healthcare professionals? They are peanuts - a highly-qualified experienced nurse would get may be $70 K just before retirement. A technician would get may be $35K. All these people would get healthcare benefits as a big group which the doctors can be a part of and get good low-premium health insurance as well. Since they own the non-profit hospitals, they can write the rules even if they have LLCs on the side. Hospitals used to have triage nurses with whom one can talk and resolve issues on the phone instead of going to the emergency for every small thing but to cut costs these positions have been eliminated so as to not impact doctors' cash flows.

If they are suffering, why do you think all the PIO doctors send their non-qualifying children to India (moneypal etc. places) or St. Croix, East Europe, or West Indies for MBBS and come back and take STEP 1,2,3 in US?

It is different in Europe. German doctors get $100K per year. No wonder Indian docs want to be in the US.

This post wins my Nigerian Prince Most Ignorant Post of the Week award for its deep knowledge of statistics, state of healthcare, reimbursement, and jealously towards the rich in general.

Meanwhile, in today's news, non-doctor rich individuals do not care about their "non-qualifying" children's education ... tune in at 11.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 04 Feb 2014 00:35

In fact I had this doccu with an MBA come by ones when I was sitting outside smoking my charminar after a day of hard non-work and asks me what I do for a living. Because he sees moi doing nothing most times so probably he wanted to ask me that question for a long time. After I said I do non-scientific software as I am this new fangled doccu in a CS which is called a non-science, he was asking me oh you are an entrepr-e-manure, how exciting. Why don't you put your software on CDs and start selling? I told him I will think about it if he can gather a few doccus and invest in my company for a 5% share which will become millions at least if not billions. I could see the wheels turning in his mind - you know the next M$, Google, or better still the next Facebook or the next big pharma company that comes out with a wonder drug for cancer after we predict the Tertiary Protein Structure.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 04 Feb 2014 00:48

matrimc wrote:Shreeman: Looks like I hit a nerve

Only if you were trying to inject yourself with some of that good stuff that influenced the post.

Genuine ignorance at this level deserves recognition. Specially for you, that post will be enshrined in the weekly awards post, forever.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 04 Feb 2014 00:49

Comprehension problem

(CPoops for short)

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 04 Feb 2014 00:58

CPoops

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 04 Feb 2014 01:12

CPoops

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 04 Feb 2014 01:15

matrimc youse knows nuttin. Mayonnaise clinic will sell you a $250000 cultured bladder even if you have stage IV bladder cancer. Medicine is one of the biggest scams going.

Hitesh · Post by **Hitesh** » 04 Feb 2014 01:22

Matrimc,'

you are so far off the base that it is not even funny. Doctors assume a lot of risks when it comes to their practices. You might know this, but doctors are one of the few professions at highest risk for bankruptcy. I should know because I come from a family full of doctors. Believe me, they do not have it easy. They work their asses off day and night and you assume that they sit on their asses and count the money.

They make a lot of money because they assume an *enormous* amount of risk that other people do not assume such as technicians or nurses. It is the doctors' asses on the line, not nurses or technicians. Doctors have to earn enough money to pay the staff's salaries, equipment, leases, insurance, supplies, costs, overhead, in addition to their own salaries. It is a very stressful job to own a practice. I know several doctors who only make $60,000 a year after paying off all the overhead and expenses and that does not even include the cost of their cars and they are highly experienced surgeons that bill in at least a million dollars in fees and only come out $60,000 or even less.

That is not even counting the cost and time to collect fees from insurance and patients in which most of them never pay on time and never in full.

Your ignorance is shining through big time and you didn't set off a raw nerve. What you set off was our bullshit meter off, despite your protestations.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 04 Feb 2014 02:19

CPoops

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 04 Feb 2014 04:01

CPoops

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 04 Feb 2014 04:04

$60 000 net on $1 million is not in the realms of credibility. I know several high billers, none is as incompetent as this. Please do not mislead non-physicians.

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 04 Feb 2014 04:08

matrimc wrote:Hitesh

Yes I readily agree that I do not know much about being a medical doctor. But then how to square what I see around me about how thw doctors are living. I live in the same upscale neighborhood as several doctors but have to get by with 7 BR house full basement with natural oak only where as the doctors have more expensive more BR houses with enormous amount of landscaping, Brazilian cherry cabinets and all wooden floors, imported marble baths, teenage kids get Beamers. If they are in penury why all these gee-gaws? Almost all of them to the man/woman are very attached to everything physical. Talk anything abstract, they run a mile.

I have seen several doctors in India who are lot more down to earth and have very simple living. All of them work in rural areas and provide the much needed primary care and a few surgeons too. Of course, it used to be that whatever doctors do in India is never questioned. I lost my dad probably due to incompetence during Angioplasty (or something like that where they push a balloon through the vein and clear the block). I was talking to a doctor friend of mine (who is an MD PhD and worked with several Nobel Laureates and could be a junior to shiv ji if I my guess about our good hakim's alma mater is right) and her opinion was that they were aggressive in this surgery. What did I do? Nutting because what can I do? That is what is going to happen if you let the doctors off the hook for incompetence. Don't get me wrong - I agree that the malpractice awards have gone through the roof and a litmit is certainly required. But I am still mystified as to why they are living beyond their means or even going to the extent of forcing their kids to become doctors? I have seen several cases in my immediate circles of doctor friends.

Ah, dear Matrimc, the problem is you see doctors through a US lens as slaves and to be punished for the mistakes that anybody could make. These slaves may live like minor royalty but they are poor and harassed! You see they spend an extra 4 to 6 years past their bachelors degree getting their credentials. They are 28 to 30 years old by the time they become certified doctors of human health. So they deserve their riches. And their children deserve to be doctors too! So, just because they may drive a BMW 700 series it doesn't mean they are rich. It just means they are recovering part of their investment in medical school. They're not rich, they're harassed slaves!

Disregard the fact that a lot of people who are not doctors have to work 5 or 10 years before they start hitting their wage portential as experienced workers.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 04 Feb 2014 05:22

I am not qualified to comment on this debate for many reasons. But I will attempt it none the less -- only once, and because it was specifically requested. It is not positive news either. Thus, my last comment on the subject.

A poster here suggested they were a successful businessman in very specialized technology with substantial landholding (7 Bedroom house with a furnished basement) and other obvious accoutrements of success. But that people around him, who they obviously socialized with, had even more and may have acquired it with less than ideal business practices in a different business.

This is hardly dispassionate debate. Which disqualifies me. I stood disqualified right at the first statement. The salient points that remain are:

Do statistics support my observations before I make a strong statement (in favor? against?) what exactly: That hakimullah is a doctor and posts here? Or that doctors become rich? Or that doctors do not have any ethics left? That they somehow make more money than me? Why am I even bringing this up?

What class am I a member of, before I launch a class action suit against successful business people? Would it be any different if one lived in a neighborhood full of bankers? Are Indian doctors somehow more or less ethical than their peers? Do we not want Indians to be doctors?

Am I suddenly proposing communism for some and capitalism for others? Are we suggesting redistribution of wealth? Are we assuming and evaluating net worth of anonymous internet entities?

And many many more, before there is even scope for legitimate discussion.

Now both the draupadi cheer haran and the content of the positive news challenge the conscience in the same way. Or the ought to. Thus their reason to exist and interest this writer. There is an underlying principle. I am not qualified to comment without.

Those that want money, will gather it in any profession. I am prescribed a very short leash for good reason. People get upset.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 04 Feb 2014 06:12

CPoops

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 04 Feb 2014 06:33

matrimc wrote:Yes. I dived into the caves with 230 small rooms and came back with why there should be short lease. Sure one can have substantial land holding in boondocks. I am hypocrite and also believe in what is that a fool and his money and all that. It may be a little known fact that the silver haired one with whom people talk after getting down on their knees designed a stent which is 1/3 the cost of the imported ones. But Indics in India who have the money to go to corporate hospitals prefer imported from US maal. I am a simpleton who is simply holding up the mirror to show that the docs themselves are the ones who are suggesting commie for some and Adam smith for others. If they want to reach out and take money from moi pocket of course I am going to give a small tap on their wrist. Shouldn't I? Also there are other beliefs than commie and hedge fund management. May be some people can't get their head around it. Figures.

Are we getting jealous of claims of high net worth by internet entities now? May be I live in a small 7x7 padded room right next to some who are posting here. May be I am a high school dropout with nary a worthwhile thought in my head? People on shirt leashes should not tug at them so hard. Might choke on own bile against successful or happy non-hakims.

And why this sudden lapse into samskritam hain? To show the more Indic than Indicness?

Oh I was talking about all the docs in us not limiting myself to desi docs only. Knee jerk reaction or I poked in a sensitive place.

You are successful, we applaud you. By being here in this thread you provide positive news.

I do not identify with any of the philosiphies or communities you want me to. What exactly do you want me to say? Go ahead and write it on my behalf and let the positive news be just that, positive news.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 04 Feb 2014 06:46

I know several doctors who only make $60,000 a year after paying off all the overhead and expenses and that does not even include the cost of their cars and they are highly experienced surgeons that bill in at least a million dollars in fees and only come out $60,000 or even less.

That is not even counting the cost and time to collect fees from insurance and patients in which most of them never pay on time and never in full.

AoA! This is VERY Bojitive Neuj. Supreme HQ always tells me: Until you figure out how Ulan Bator Airlines manages to declare a loss every quarter, when not a seat is ever seen empty on their flights, DO NOT go into bijnej: u don't know nuthin. Of course she is right.
Ah once was lyawst
But nyaw ah'm fyaund
Was 404, but nyaw ah see!!

The doctor who pulls in $$M and manages to show less than $60K personal income, is truly one to bow to. Given how many hours doctors work, with the overtime counted, this is clearly a case for Safe Horizons. And add to that the job of taking care of those Bimmers and Mercs and Jags, all bought by us taxpayers on Sec. 172 expensing. If s(he) is sitting watching TV in the ~~Living Room~~ Hall Of a Hundred Pillars, and needs a beer, s(he) has to walk 100 yards on a slick hardwood floor to the mega-fridge and back. Is America great or what?

Yup. TSJ, call in the BDS and the SWAT teams, and the Underground Railroad! Let's go rescue these slaves!!

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 04 Feb 2014 07:07

Oopsy

Just had a shower aand remembered in which thread I am posting and realized the illiterate I am. Amends made with apologies to Shreeman and shiv ji.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 04 Feb 2014 07:18

matrimc wrote:~~No I am not successful - I am just a homeless hobo living under a flyover in sillycon valley posting from my iPad. Do I still get the plaudits,~~<snip> no bloody point.

Which Silicon Valley? : Chip one or the Chick One?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 04 Feb 2014 07:21

matrimc wrote:
shiv wrote:Matrimc, you have written only the bositive neuj about doctors..
Shiv: I will be answering in Understanding US-2 thread (if not for anything just to get away from juvenile heckling). Just a small note - I don't disagree with what you are saying. I am not a doctor but a user of their and their employers' services. The picture in US is very dismal. Doctors do have to take some blame - may be not all but probably as much as 33% - the amount of money that flows to them.

Matrimc this is an interesting and very relevant argument that I would like to address and I think it remains relevant to the Bosive Neuj USA" thread

I am not criticizing your logic - but I am going to point out that you are saying that the doctors' share of responsibility for the mess amounts to 33% which is the amount of money they take from the system. This is a logical thing to ask, but I want to take you back a few decades to try and demonstrate how this mess has been in the works for that long.

Doctors through history have been greatly respected, almost never poor, but rarely rich. People go to them for help and are frequently not able to pay them in cash for the equivalent amount that they gain from going to the doctor. At other times the doctor is able to do nothing more than hold a patient's hand and give comfort at a time of intense stress. I will keep this argument brief. How much is your life worth? If your life is worth a million dollars, and I happen to save your life by simply doing an appendicectomy, I and the system that helped save your life must be paid a million dollars This is clearly an absurd idea which cannot be applied globally, but America was the first modern country where life was valued in terms of money and doctors were attempted to be paid a value concomitant with the life saving work they do. This is a mistake. Anyone with any sense and knowledge of medicine will understand that reducing life and health into a sum of money is a slippery slope. It appears that the people who started this nonsense in America had neither. But naturally, if you offer doctors humongous salaries, they are not going to refuse and make the moral argument I have made above. My argument is not original - it is simply a well known relationship between doctor and population that allows the doctor a place in society without paying him like a king and expecting him to do magic in return.

The US commoditized healthcare and made it into a buyer-seller relationship where the doctor gives health in exchange for a princely sum of money. It started in the 1960s and not a few doctors in the US (smart people to start with) went into it for the money. I stress once again that the US has given jobs to some doctors who were known to me in medical college as incompetent/disinterested bums who did not really learn the basic stuff they need to now and simply got through by luck. The US developed a system where doctors were paid one heck of a lot to follow rules set in the US. Since medicine was a commodity, lawyers stepped in where doctors failed and litigation has now reached ridiculous extremes in the US. You only need to read about how frivolous cases have been filed and won (or compensation gained without trial) to see how the US is messing itself up imagining that justice is being done in a free society. Add to this the convoluted bureaucratic red tape that doctors are put through in terms of billing and claims - a fact that we Indians do not know about while we mock Indian bureaucracy for inefficiency and lack of fairness and sing paeans to the US for its efficiency.

The fact that the community of doctors is being adversely messed with is something the US will surely begin to see in the next 15 to 20 years. The US system is totally wrong and they are heading up shit creek even as the rest of the world sees the US as a model and mislead themselves up what they think is a garden path.

It is perfectly OK to lay 33%, 50% or even 400% of the blame on doctors. But none of that will clean the system. In the long term the body of doctors and the creativity of doctors in arriving at satisfactory outcomes in cases where no known solutions exist is being stifled in America. Americans will pay for this. The first people to pay will be the poorest in America, who are free people in a free country not slaves from India. They are free to face the consequences of massive and decades long botch up by the US.

Sooner or later the population will wise up and medicine will become a less attractive profession in the US. That is when the US will start importing paid high slaves. And when those slaves catch on to this game, the US will have to rethink what it means by healthcare

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 04 Feb 2014 08:38

shiv ji: thanks. No offense.

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 04 Feb 2014 08:40

Speak English!: Racist Revolt As Coca-Cola Airs Multilingual ‘America the Beautiful’ SuperBowl Ad

During the SuperBowl, the Coca-Cola Company aired a commercial to promote their brand as every other mega corporation who has a few million dollars to blow on a 30 to 60 seconds of television airtime. It was a nice commercial titled “It’s Beautiful” in which American people did American things while the song “America the Beautiful” was sung in the background.

You can watch the commercial here:

f you’re a human being you might say to yourself “that was a decent commercial, what’s the big deal?” But if you’re a vile monster void of emotion and compassion you might have realized that America the Beautiful was sung in MULTIPLE LANGUAGES. DEAR GOD, NO. Some people were pissed it was not sung in ENGLISH.
Coca-Cola, the soda pop (YOU NEVER SPECIFIED WHICH ENGLISH I HAVE TO SPEAK) company, tweeted after the commercial aired:

@CocaCola: The Only thing more beautiful than this country are the people who live here.

Coke is probably now realizing how that is not quite true.

Totally not racist.

Damn, Coke. You know shit is messed up when you’ve lost DIABETES BOY…

Yes, speaking foreign languages = terrorists.

Maybe the memo was written in something other than English?

Which American patriot said that?

"foreign decent" lmao.

"We (meaning myself and my very small sample of friends/family) speak English…"

"I have no control over myself and will continue to give you money for your sugary, addictive beverage, but know I am unhappy with you."

And here are a few fantastic “your in America” tweets showing how just because you say you can speak English, doesn’t mean you know how to write it:

Olivia has no ****** clue that it was “America the Beautiful” in the Coke commercial, not God Bless America. But who cares? REAL AMERICANS don’t need to know the difference between the songs as long as they’re sung in ENGLISH!!
And, she’s not the only one. Apparently, the Star-Spangled Banner is no longer the United States’ national anthem…

The commercial was made by the private corporation, the Coca-Cola Company, so if you don’t like it sir, take it up with the *** free market ***.
This is all just a extremely tiny sample of what’s being said over on Twitter and, shit…

Last but not least, however, we have Kasey Knowles. Now, first she tweets out this…

then, she tweets the classic “non-apology apology” where she actually DOUBLES DOWN meaning even the “non-apology apology” is actually a “non-apology non-apology apology”…

…but why would this random girl feel the need to apologize? It’s not like she represents her good ole’ state of Kansas…

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 04 Feb 2014 09:03

Shivji,

In the US you have a system where physician charges are high, but not entirely unreasonable; however, there are a few problems. One problem being that residencies in lucrative practices are limited such as gastroenterology and cardiology. The US supposedly being a free market, has physicians that restrict numbers of residencies and fellowships in these programs through political lobbying and by controlling the medical license boards in every state. The income for these lucrative specialties comes from the incredibly high charges from interpreting pathology tests and procedures such as MRI, endoscopy, and cardiograms. So in a sense, doctors are responsible for the lack of availability of health care. The other problem comes from the billing process. You go to a GI and get a colonoscopy done, in return the GI sends a $5000 bill to your insurance company knowing full well that he will not get that amount, but only $2000 after the insurance company pre-bargins the cost of the procedure. The GI then sends you a reduced bill of $500 for the services. The net result is $2500 for the GI. The actual cost including medical staff, equipment use, disposable items and overhead is about $1200.

What is going to happen is that as the US population ages, medical costs will eat up the US GDP. In return the insurance industry and physicians will limit access to services, in order to preserve profits, which will lead to lower US life expectancy.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 04 Feb 2014 09:25

What is going to happen is that as the US population ages, medical costs will eat up the US GDP. In return the insurance industry and physicians will limit access to services, in order to preserve profits, which will lead to lower US life expectancy.

Modern, technology intensive medical practice has very little to do with life expectancy.