India-US Strategic News and Discussion

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member_28380
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by member_28380 »

UlanBatori wrote:US is doing Modi no favour:

It is merely that the US is hedging its bets. It may be noted that, during NDA rule, the US took a strong interest in Sonia Gandhi, over and above what one might normally expect a foreign government to show towards a leader of the Opposition. At the time, this was dismissed as westerners being comfortable with each other, but then too, they were hedging their bets. More intriguing motivations have been suggested, but we shall let this pass. The fact is that the US has realised that their snippiness towards Narendra Modi (since 2005) has become counter-productive. The US, first and foremost, is a mercantilist state. It is not for nothing that there was a 1960s axiom that “what’s good for General Motors is good for the United States” ... There was also George Kennan’s alleged quote about how the objective of American foreign policy is to ensure that the US continues to enjoy 50 percent of the world’s resources. ... India that may be one of the last big untapped reservoirs of consumer demand, thanks mostly to its ‘demographic dividend’ of a young, and thus working/earning, population in decades to come. .... It must be rather evident to them by now that Modi is unlikely to be the type that forgets and forgives easily; better, then, to build some bridges to him.

A group of Indian Communists and Islamists, spearheaded by a librarian at MIT named Omar Khalidi (now deceased, as he got hit by a train) made determined efforts to declare Modi, in effect, an untouchable, based on alleged violations of the rights of Muslims. But it is likely that evangelical Christians were using the Muslims as a smokescreen, as this blog suggests. The US Council on International Religious Freedom is a thinly-disguised facilitator of conversion activities by Christians. In Gujarat’s Dangs district, their determined assault on the tribal population had been checkmated to a large extent by the Ekal Vidyalayas and other outreach by Hindu groups; this, I conjecture, annoyed the US. You might remember the vicious campaign launched by Indian Communists in the US against groups such as the Indian Development and Relief Fund a few years ago, possibly as a consequence. Besides, the edifice of lies about ‘2,000 Muslims massacred’ in Gujarat was manufactured by a padre in Gujarat and propagated by the UK’s envoy. This was a partial fabrication, since the best data as presented to Parliament by the UPA government (hardly one that is friendly to Modi) is that 790 Muslims and 254 Hindus were killed. But in true Goebbelsian fashion, the lie about a one-sided massacre of Muslims was repeated ad nauseam until it became ‘truth by repeated assertion’. All the better to beat the BJP with, as they have a history of being susceptible to being shamed. There is also the sinister possibility that the US feels that ‘assets’ it has long cultivated in the Congress Party are in danger of being rendered impotent. It may be remembered that Jaswant Singh at one point said in so many words that there was an American mole “high up in the Indian government”. He declined to identify the alleged mole, and I suspect he was encouraged to shut up by a little gentle arm-twisting from certain quarters. Naturally, the loss of long-cultivated and strategic assets is something that no power wishes to see. Thus there has been a general tendency on the part of the US to demonise Modi. So long as there was no consequence to this tactic, things worked well. But now there is a non-trivial possibility that Modi will come to power. ...
But I am pretty sure Narendra Modi is aware of the standard American tactic of hounding those who deviate from their line (and, conversely, rewarding those they can push around). In the past several years, this has taken the form of continuous, vicious propaganda against Vladimir Putin of Russia – the latest has been in the form of derogatory reports about the Sochi Winter Olympics, which, despite their Cassandra-like warnings, has gone well so far. Part of the problem is ego, too: Putin has outsmarted President Obama more than once, for instance over Syria. The other person now bearing the brunt of American-instigated harassment is Shinzo Abe of Japan. Finally, here is a Japanese leader who is willing to stand up for his nation’s honour, and the Anglophone media is full of negative stories about him, especially about his visit to the Yasukuni Shrine, where Japan’s war-dead are interred. Along with “several Class-A war criminals”, the Anglophones always gravely intone. So Abe mustn’t go there? Well, who declared them war criminals? Of course, it was the American-led kangaroo court, which, the lone Indian jurist, Radhabinod Pal, pointed out in his strong dissent, was merely a vindictive victor’s court interested not in justice but in revenge. The proverbial impartial observer might wonder, even though it sounds blasphemous even as I write it, how many of the ‘heroes’ in America’s Arlington National Cemetery would similarly be deemed war criminals by a jury of their peers. We all know of the atrocities in Southeast Asia: William Calley and My Lai leap to mind. And what about the generals who dropped the nuclear bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Or those who bombed innocent bystander Cambodia into the genocidal hands of the Khmer Rouge? No, no nations are pure as the driven snow. The Yasukuni breast-beating is a pressure tactic, applied with great diligence by the Chinese too. I think the same tejovadham treatment is being applied to Modi as well. They don’t think he will be anywhere near as pliant as Congress regimes have been, so they have been doing their best to demean him and diminish him. But now that he’s being wooed by them, he should heed the words of Theodore Roosevelt: “Speak softly and carry a big stick”. Or to use another metaphor, watch out for the knife in the back. Or, to go back to the epics, beware of a Dhritharashtra-alinganam,or of Greeks bearing gifts. Be afraid, Mr. Modi, be very afraid.

Read more at: http://www.firstpost.com/india/us-is-do ... ef_article

UB ji
You meant to say NaMo should be cautious, not afraid.
Fear is not some thing we associate with Modi.

Interesting take on the role of Christian missionaries whipping up Gujarat riots. It makes sense.

Well it will be Count of Monte Cristo moment in September the banned and visa-denied Modi visits the US as Prime Minister. :D

I really really hope so.
member_28380
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by member_28380 »

habal wrote:Sunni Islam is the Kalashnikov wielding terror arm of the SD. So the comparisons may be entirely intentional. They will try to support this vile project until the Saudi backed Islamists have done maximum damage they can around the world and when their use is over, they will be dispensed away with without any emotion.

Guantanamo was a project to punish those terrorists who were NOT enamored of this cleavage of anglo-saudi views, and held independent Islamic views.
Sunni Islam is the Kalashnikov wielding terror arm of the SD.

You are very talented, summarizing 305 pages into one sentence :rotfl:
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by rajithn »

VijayKM wrote: UB ji
You meant to say NaMo should be cautious, not afraid.
Fear is not some thing we associate with Modi.

Interesting take on the role of Christian missionaries whipping up Gujarat riots. It makes sense.

Well it will be Count of Monte Cristo moment in September the banned and visa-denied Modi visits the US as Prime Minister. :D

I really really hope so.
Without a doubt the EJs used the 2002 riots in Guj as a shoulder to fire from, at Modi. And it is only the EJ lobbying in the US that led to Modi's VISA being withdrawn. This was a direct consequence of Modiji passing the anti- conversion law in Guj in 2003. Even to this day, in public perception, the EJ's role in this episode is not seen and every imbecile (clarification: I am talking about the mango Indians) thinks Modi has been given this treatment for the riots.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by UlanBatori »

UB ji
You meant to say NaMo should be cautious, not afraid.
Fear is not some thing we associate with Modi.
AOA! That is NOT the meek, gentle, yak-herding I saying such horrible things!! :eek: That is Rajiv Sreenivasan.
But rajithn points out a very important fact that has been totally missed by most of those screaming for NaMo to "be given" visa to US: while the Islamists/Pakis/Commies have been doing the screaming about "genocide" etc, the State Department was arm-twisted by the EJs on the USCIRF (US Commission on International Religions Freedom), i.e., to convert the sheep to Save Their Souls and make them indebted to the corporate entities that do that sort of stuff. NaMo's Gujarat tends to make it a little bit harder for them to do their mischief among the tribal areas where it is actually forbidden for anyone else to go interfere. Before 2002, the EJs has done a huge amount of trouble-making in the Dangs forest districts, hiring goon gangs to go destroy the temples of the tribals and forcing them through money and threats to join the Saved-Soul train. This was much intensifed (I am guessing) using the huge amounts of money poured in as so-called "Earthwuake Relief" in 2001. The tribals evidently were not too happy about this state of affairs. So when the violence started after the Godhra train-burning, and the police running the protection racket for the EJs were withdrawn in a hurry to patrol A'bad, Vadodara etc, the tribals declared freedom and went on a rampage against the EJs.

Do a Google search on "Action Aid" (remember Harsh Mander?). They will project an image as 400% Secular etc. But Google their connections (joined at the hip at birth) to Christian Aid. Esp. in Africa, where they didn't think we could search and find the connections. Now Google Christian Aid, tribals, Gujarat, and see what you find.

Also check Jubilee Baptist Mission, and their advice on how to cheat on visa applications to India, to get tourist visas and go on Conversion Missionary trips.

This is the Big $$$ behind the USCIRF. They are the ones who pressured the SD to attack India in general (every year the ****s come out with their Report citing the heavenly freedom in Saudi Arabia, contrasted with the extreme hardship faced by Xtians in India). As Sreenivasan says in his article, the connections to the Ekal Vidyalaya and their ill-fated and catastrophic attack on the IDRF (the IDRF is today happy and flourishing, and is rated Gold Star by Charity Navigator, BTW :P )
all are connected into this maze.

As for who started the Godhra fire, the evidence is laid out in the articles linked by the evil postor below that Foreign Policy blog site. Or Google "Yesterday Once More: The FOIL Primer". And "The Lashkar-e-Pinocchio Rides Again". Takes some careful reading to see the linkages through the maze. Both articles were also printed in Kishen Kak / Radha Rajan's book titled "NGOs, Foreign Funding... Anti-National Industry". NaMO and KPS Gill inaugurated the release of that book, BTW.

Since Ghulam Abdul Fai was arrested and convicted, my 6th coujin thrice removed tells me that the author has got the strong feeling that those articles were also read and absorbed by some very different kinds of ppl. :eek: :eek:
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Shreeman »

I miss folks like enqyoob. That guy used to have some deep deep insights.

No! Don't tell me there is a substitute. There is no substitution possible.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by sivab »

Shreeman wrote:I miss folks like enqyoob. That guy used to have some deep deep insights.

No! Don't tell me there is a substitute. There is no substitution possible.
:rotfl: He is not coming back, ever. You have to be happy with what you get.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Shreeman »

sivab wrote:
Shreeman wrote:I miss folks like enqyoob. That guy used to have some deep deep insights.

No! Don't tell me there is a substitute. There is no substitution possible.
:rotfl: He is not coming back, ever. You have to be happy with what you get.
I know. What to do onlee. I bet none of you guys were around when ashishN, narayanan (light and heavy), etc used to rule this universe and harry(RIP), and even nitin and jagan were active posters. rangudu used to gloat over every little thing that made it to print. i will even take the time when mahendra used to get kicked off every three months over the present. only lalmohan has had some staying power, and he is a bit depressed too. I wonder if ashishN and the like even read here anymore. sigh.

oh well,circle of life, evolution. on with the regular programming. i go back to my cave.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Amber G. »

:(( from NY Times:
More Engagement With India
The decision by the United States to have its ambassador to India, Nancy Powell, meet Narendra Modi, a star of the country’s Bharatiya Janata opposition party, reversed a long estrangement.
...
In 2005, the United States imposed a visa ban on Mr. Modi, who is the chief minister of the state of Gujarat, over questions about his role in the savage riots there in 2002 that left nearly 1,000 people dead, most of them part of the Muslim minority. Many Indians felt that Mr. Modi should have done more to stop the violence; some even said he was complicit.
....


His rise to power is deeply troubling to many Indians, especially the country’s 138 million Muslims and its many other minorities. His strident Hindu nationalism and inability to tolerate dissent could inflame sectarian tensions that have subsided somewhat in the last decade. That would be destructive for India and the region.

Should he become prime minister, his ability to reverse a decline in economic growth, India’s greatest challenge, and to ensure stability would depend on his ability to represent, and defend, all the country’s people.

...
Since 2008 when India and the United States completed a pathbreaking nuclear energy agreement, they have worked to develop closer commercial and strategic ties and now share almost $100 billion in annual trade. But the relationship is under serious strains, including a trade dispute over solar panels and a row over a diplomat who was charged with visa fraud and illegally underpaying her maid and left the United States in January.
:(( <snip> :((
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by rgosain »

I think Modi and his guys missed a trick here, and should have held any meetings with NP at the airport, either in a hanger or conference room, if only to allay the impression that he wants to meet NP, who, let's not forget facilitated the abuse of an Indian diplomat and is accountable for the actions of WM.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Haresh »

Report: John Kerry is Working to Scuttle Israel-India Arms Deal

http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/02/14/re ... arms-deal/
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by member_28380 »

Haresh wrote:Report: John Kerry is Working to Scuttle Israel-India Arms Deal

http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/02/14/re ... arms-deal/
Kerrorist practices fire brand Wahabi Islam. :P

Moderate Muslims are protesting and are pointing out Kerrorist brings bad repute to Islam in general.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Lisa »

Americans surveyed: misunderstood, misrepresented or ignorant?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... orant.html

Gems,

"A National Geographic poll of over 500 young Americans, aged 18 to 24, showed that six per cent failed to locate their own country on a map of the world."

"Two years after the Iraq War began, 70 per cent of Americans still believed Saddam Hussein was personally involved in the 9/11 attacks, according to a Washington Post survey."

"Six per cent could not remember the date of Independence Day."

AND,

One in four Americans 'do not know the Earth circles the Sun'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... e-Sun.html

"Fewer than half of the respondents - 48 per cent - are aware that humans evolved from earlier species of animals and just 39 percent answered correctly that "the universe began with a huge explosion"."
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by UlanBatori »

A National Geographic poll of over 500 young Americans, aged 18 to 24, showed that six per cent failed to locate their own country on a map of the world.
IOW, 94 percent of young Americans could (a) respond to a National Geographic Poll and (b) could correctly identify their country (whatever that was) on a map of the world. Maybe not all identified USA as their own country despite claiming to be "Americans": maybe they identified Brazil, Canada, Mexico, Colombia or Venezuela, correctly?
(Note: NOT taught in Shariah-dominated Poodlestan: The USA is one of 8 countries in NORTH America, one of 4 if you are a Free Californian. And then there is SOUTH America)
"Two years after the Iraq War began, 70 per cent of Americans still believed Saddam Hussein was personally involved in the 9/11 attacks, according to a Washington Post survey."
21 years after Iraq was invaded, enough British citizens still believe that Saddam had something to do with it, that they voted for Tony B. Liar's party instead of hanging the genocidal bas****. And unless I am mistaken, UK forces are still in Iraq? How many UK citizens know, even today, about the genocide in British-occupied Basra, when they declared it a "free-fire zone"and murdered over 80,000 innocents in 1991?
Six per cent could not remember the date of Independence Day.
NINETYFOUR PERCENT COULD??!!! On any given day, what percent of drunken and drug-addicted / stupid British can remember what day it is?? 20%? 40%?
One in four Americans 'do not know the Earth circles the Sun'
It actually does not, and you clearly don't know that. The Earth and the Sun "circle" (actually "ellipse") the Black Hole at the center of the Milky Way.
Fewer than half of the respondents - 48 per cent - are aware that humans evolved from earlier species of animals and just 39 percent answered correctly that "the universe began with a huge explosion.
See? (of course not!) It is hard to look at many British and declare that they have evolved at all from earlier species.
Look at this video: Is that chimp less "evolved" than, say, Tony B. Liar or His Royal "High"ness Prince Waste-of-O2 Charley, hain?

And (b) WHAT Intelligent Design-educated American would go along with that "Eevolyoosun" communist rumors? As for "Universe began when the First Pakistani (Abdul) discovered a soosai bum", :rotfl: :rotfl: For the real scoop on how Creation occurred in BCE4004, please visit the Teachings of St. Farmer here. I am :eek: That is a well-known Britisth (Victorian) Law, after all!

(Sigh! With TSJ absent, SOMEONE has to stand up for Old Glory, hain?)
Last edited by UlanBatori on 17 Feb 2014 08:22, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Amber G. »

UBji but they do know that the Mount Everest is not in Mangolia. :D

Everest is in the UK! Survey reveals Britons' shocking lack of knowledge on their own country
The survey, carried out by research service OnePoll for tour operator Journeys of Distinction, has found that over 50 per cent of British adults think that Everest - in the Himalayas - is the UK’s tallest mountain.

One in five also confesses to ignorance when it comes to identifying exactly which countries make up the United Kingdom.

Researchers interviewed 2,000 British adults - and also found that
almost a quarter of adults surveyed believe that Australia's famed Ayers Rock is a UK landmark
.
And of course, 99% of the people from any country ..I am sure, do not even know that parity is not conserved in weak nuclear interactions. :shock:
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by UlanBatori »

:P
Last edited by UlanBatori on 17 Feb 2014 08:17, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Amber G. »

UBji - Ehh.. % experts in classical statistical mechanics.. May be in Ulan Bator -- In UK, forget about people knowing Equipartition theorem, 94% can't even count the degrees of freedom in a system, (specially when this number exceeds 3 :) )..


(Seriously - General knowledge about Physics or math is shockingly lacking even in the educated college group)

Meanwhile Kerry is blasting climate change deniers ...saying that 97% of scientists agree that climate change is real..
Kerry, saying that 97 per cent of scientists who have weighed in on the issue agree that the phenomenon is real, argued that the cost of inaction to environments and economies will far outweigh the significant expense of reducing greenhouse gas emissions that trap solar heat in the atmosphere and contribute to the Earth's rising temperatures.
...
American officials hope that will help encourage other nations, including developing countries like Indonesia and India, to follow suit.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by ArmenT »

Lisa wrote: One in four Americans 'do not know the Earth circles the Sun'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... e-Sun.html
Why is this stuff in the Indo US strategic discussion anyway? Shouldn't this be in the off-topic or positive news thread? Incidentally, there is some major H&D cover up by the Telegraph there. What the Telegraph doesn't mention from the original report is that while 75% of Americans got that question correct, only 70% of EU respondents and 66% of Chinese respondents got that one correct! (or in other words, 25% Americans got it wrong, but so did 30% of Europeans and 34% of Chinese) No word on survey among other countries in the world either :).
Lisa wrote: "Fewer than half of the respondents - 48 per cent - are aware that humans evolved from earlier species of animals and just 39 percent answered correctly that "the universe began with a huge explosion"."
Frankly, some of it is religious (fair amount of people refuse to believe Darwin's theory). As far as I'm concerned, it is a free country and people are free to believe whatever they wish, as long as they don't attempt to push it down my throat. Heck, if the majority believe that the Earth is held up on the backs of 4 elephants who stand on the back of a tortoise, more power to them, I say. I'm still eating my juicy steak, no matter what they think.

Also, Big Bang Theory still has opponents among some people (for instance, Dr. Jayant Narlikar, prominent Indian physicist, doesn't believe in it either).

Also, if either one of these two questions were administered in an Indian high school, the results would probably be similar, given that neither evolution, nor the big bang theory, are taught in Indian schools (well, I already know that it is true for the Big Bang Theory bit, because it was once asked in the school I went to and quite a few kids were unaware of it. If it isn't in the textbook and won't get them marks in the 12th standard exam, lots of kids don't care about it. Sad state of affairs really.)

Now, hi-ho back to the Bat cave complex for me.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by UlanBatori »

Kerry, saying that 97 per cent of scientists who have weighed in on the issue agree
Spoken like a politician. No concept of the notion that in science(much less so in economics because there the prevalent opinion of the market can in fact influence stock prices hugely), it does not matter how many fools say that something is right or wrong. So Kerry seems to be winning lots of friends in Israel, per that web page that was cited here. :roll: BTW, the Doniger book issue cited above contains the seeds of a major revolution. For the first time there is some traction in the Indian court system, for some pushback against the bigot invasion by the US/UK publishing cartels. Their arrogant response also contains the seeds of an even more spectacular jhapad.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Cosmo_R »

Lisa wrote:Americans surveyed: misunderstood, misrepresented or ignorant?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... orant.html

Gems,

"A National Geographic poll of over 500 young Americans, aged 18 to 24, showed that six per cent failed to locate their own country on a map of the world."

"Two years after the Iraq War began, 70 per cent of Americans still believed Saddam Hussein was personally involved in the 9/11 attacks, according to a Washington Post survey."

"Six per cent could not remember the date of Independence Day."

AND,

One in four Americans 'do not know the Earth circles the Sun'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... e-Sun.html

"Fewer than half of the respondents - 48 per cent - are aware that humans evolved from earlier species of animals and just 39 percent answered correctly that "the universe began with a huge explosion"."
Nice but

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/artic ... urvey.html

"Everest is in the UK! Survey reveals Britons' shocking lack of knowledge on their own country"

And in India it would be...
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by member_28108 »

In India it would be Indira Gandhi is Mahatma Gandhi's daughter.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by amit »

prasannasimha wrote:In India it would be Indira Gandhi is Mahatma Gandhi's daughter.

Unlikely. Do you have evidence to the contrary?

However IG as MG's daughter is a common meme in bidesh.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by amit »

Meanwhile in the DK case here's a follow-up in Firstpost which I think has been giving great coverage.

This should be read with this: Note

As they say better late than never.

I wonder if all this will be taken into consideration when herrOnner sits down in judgment.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by amit »

In other khabar, Modi brings up ‘ill-treatment’ of Devyani Khobragade in meeting with US Ambassador]
In his discussion, Modi expressed hope that a permanent solution will soon be found on the issue and stressed that “such irritants should not be allowed to happen if Indo-US strategic partnership needs to be realised to its full potential”, stated an official release from the Gujarat government on the close-door meeting that took place at Modi’s residence.
I lot of folks are surprised at this but there's a remarkable degree of consensus among mainstream political parties (the commies and Mamta didi types don't count) with regards to foreign policy despite the occasional gaffes like SeS and "my friend Talbot".
Last edited by amit on 17 Feb 2014 07:48, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by shiv »

ArmenT wrote:
Lisa wrote: One in four Americans 'do not know the Earth circles the Sun'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... e-Sun.html
Why is this stuff in the Indo US strategic discussion anyway? Shouldn't this be in the off-topic or positive news thread? Incidentally, there is some major H&D cover up by the Telegraph there. What the Telegraph doesn't mention from the original report is that while 75% of Americans got that question correct, only 70% of EU respondents and 66% of Chinese respondents got that one correct! (or in other words, 25% Americans got it wrong, but so did 30% of Europeans and 34% of Chinese) No word on survey among other countries in the world either :).
I think this topic needs to be weeded out from this thread because it is a fake variant of mine is bigger.

There is an element of cognitive bias here. With Indian literacy being something like 60-70% and the fact that over 90% Indians probably do not acquire a college degree, the inability to recognise india on a map wold be very high indeed among Indians if we surveyed a class of Indians outside our group of educated elite.

Indians who grow up in India, speak English, wear pant-shirt-jeans, get a college education and come from families who own cars, TVs and computers tend to look at people in the west who also wear pant-shirt-jeans, get a college education and come from families who own cars, TVs and computers and think "they are like us, but they are dumber than us". fact is "they" are nothing like us. Most people in the US should only be compared socially to people in India who perform similar roles in society. For example a car mechanic in the US should be compared with car mechanics in india. A US taxi driver can only be compared with an autorickshaw driver in India. Just because I speak English, look TFTA, drive car and wear pant does not mean that i should compare myself with people who have those characteristics in the US. Almost anyone in the US has those features but basically I am demeaning myself by comparing my knowledge and education with them. I am certain I would score more that most people in the world (as would most BRFites or even their teenage children) in some criteria of knowledge.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by arun »

US refuses to talk China with India.

Indrani Bagchi in TOI:
US refuses to talk China with India

Indrani Bagchi,TNN | Feb 17, 2014, 01.55 AM IST

Days before US secretary of state John Kerry touched down in Beijing for his renewed outreach to China, US officials traveled to China to hold high level discussions on South Asia.

There was nothing remarkable in this except for the fact that the US has refused to hold the East Asia dialogue with India for the past year. Through the East Asia dialogue, the US and India discussed issues relating to China and beyond, while India and South Asia are the subjects of discussion with China in the South Asia dialogue.

From mid-2013, sources said the US has been stalling all attempts to hold the East Asia dialogue. Indian officials have even offered to meet in a third country but the new assistant secretary of state Daniel Russell, who took over from Kurt Campbell, met them with stony silence. Many in the Indian system describe this as "strategic inattention" by the Obama administration. It is most strongly manifested in the lack of engagement about Asia. A dialogue on Central Asia has fallen by the wayside as has a dialogue on Africa. A trilateral between India, US and Afghanistan last met around four months ago while a newly-constituted dialogue between the two countries on West Asia has met once.

The US and India still have a trilateral discussion going with Japan. That too would have sunk were it not for the efforts of Japan and India to keep it afloat.
From here:

Times Of India
Last edited by arun on 17 Feb 2014 07:54, edited 1 time in total.
shiv
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amit wrote:In other khabar, Modi brings up ‘ill-treatment’ of Devyani Khobragade in meeting with US Ambassador]
In his discussion, Modi expressed hope that a permanent solution will soon be found on the issue and stressed that “such irritants should not be allowed to happen if Indo-US strategic partnership needs to be realised to its full potential”, stated an official release from the Gujarat government on the close-door meeting that took place at Modi’s residence.
I lot of folks are surprised at this but there's a remarkable degree of consensus among mainstream political parties (the commies and Mamta didi types don't count) with regards to foreign policy despite the occasional gaffes like SeS and "my friend Talbot".
In India we do not allow police to lift up womens garments and search their genitals for drugs and guns as they do in the US. That reeks of a barbarian culture and the fact that there is no widespread protest against such the bestiality, like dogs sniffing people's crotches indicates that the US population have been beaten into submission to accept such treatment by a wealthy "core, white" elite who control the police.
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vasu raya
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Key communications in Khobragade case revealed
Two important letters in the case of Devyani Khobragade, India’s former Deputy Consul General in New York, have been published by media in India.

The first, dated September 4, 2013, is a two-page note from the U.S. State Department stating details of the allegations made against the senior diplomat by her domestic employee Sangeeta Richard, and the second, October 8, 2013, is a four-page response by the Indian Embassy here, explaining the existing charges in India against Ms. Richard.

Ms. Khobragade was arrested on the streets of New York City on December 12, 2013, and her subsequent strip-search in the custody of U.S. Marshals sparked off a diplomatic crisis between New Delhi and Washington, with India undertaking retaliatory measures such as removing security barriers to the U.S. Embassy there.

In its letter the State Department’s Assistant Chief of Protocol Gladys Boluda wrote to erstwhile Indian Ambassador in the U.S., Nirupama Rao, that it requested a voluntary meeting between Ms. Khobragade and representatives of the Bureau of Diplomatic Security, so that Ms. Khobragade, who was indicted in January on criminal charges linked to visa fraud, could respond to the allegations made by Ms. Richard.

Further, Ms. Boluda informed Ambassador Rao of a two-week deadline for the Indian side to submit its findings to the State Department and necessary documentation in this context.

While there were subsequent suggestions that no indication had been made of potential action against Ms. Khobragade, this letter says, “The allegations are of considerable concern to the Department of State and consequently the Department requests that the Embassy look into these matters on an urgent basis and inform the Department of its findings.”

Additionally the State Department noted that it would “take this opportunity to remind the Embassy that U.S. law requires the Secretary of State to ‘suspend for such period as the Secretary determines necessary, the issuance of A-3 visas or G-5 visas to applicants seeking to work for officials of a diplomatic mission or international organization, if the Secretary determines that there is credible evidence that one or more employees of such mission or international organization have abused or exploited one or more non-immigrants holding an A-3 or G-5 visa, and that the diplomatic mission or international organization tolerated such actions.”

Further, the State Department directly referenced its expectation that foreign diplomats on U.S. soil pay their staff “the greater of the U.S. federal or state minimum wage, or the prevailing wage in the area, and are required to retain records of daily and weekly hours worked… and proof of wage payments made…”

In its reply, the Indian Embassy said that Ms. Richard’s allegations against her former employer “are issues that are relevant to the relationship between the Government of India and its employees” and “not subject to U.S. regulation or adjudication”.

The embassy added that the Delhi High Court was had issued an anti-suit injunction restraining Ms. Richard from approaching any U.S. court and “It cannot be the argument of any party that a foreign government must adjudicate in a matter between Indian citizens that stands placed before the judiciary of India.”

The embassy further exhorted the State Department to help facilitate the repatriation of Ms. Richard to India, arguing, “It is evident that the purpose of Ms. Richard’s consent to a contractual agreement… was apparently intended only to find a way to illegally immigrate to the U.S.”
On a side note,

Venezuela expels three US consular officials
Venezuela's president says he's ordering the expulsion of three US consular officials.

President Nicolas Maduro made the announcement during a televised speech Sunday night that comes amid rising tensions in Venezuela over anti-government protests.

...

Maduro also says the country's ambassador to the Organisation of American States in Washington received a phone call from the State Department warning that the arrest of opposition leader Leopoldo Lopez would have negative international consequences for his government. Maduro says he won't tolerate "threats" to Venezuela's sovereignty.
vasu raya
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US mission can’t sell duty-free alcohol to embassies
The US embassy in New Delhi didn’t respond to HT’s query on the issue. New Delhi has reasoned that the major reason why ACSA can indulge in commercial activities is due to surplus of imported articles that its members wouldn’t need or pick up. “This amounts to a clear misuse of diplomatic privileges,” said sources.
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For perspective, some data -

Before the supreme court ruling, NY City alone paid millions of dollars per year for wrongful strip searches. For example, one class action case, in 2010 alone, NY city agreed to pay $33 million to people who went through strip search.

I have not seen the data after the supreme court ruling (which gives more leeway to prison officials) but it is likely that 2010 type case will have a different outcome now.

In DK's case it was the U.S Marshals Service, which handles transport for federal prisoners, (and they have confirmed that DK was strip-searched at a holding cell inside a New York federal courthouse.- Credic-Barrett (spokes person of USMS denied a cavity search but Indian source has said Khobragade also was subjected to a cavity search)

According to them (and repeated by PB) In New York, where security is tighter than in other parts of the country, U.S. Marshals follow that procedure for anyone who is arrested and held in a courthouse cell with other detainees, (Of course there was no need to arrest DK or put her in a cell with other detainees)

P.B's public statement on a PENDING case saying (" Khobragade was standard practice for every defendant, rich or poor, American or not." was very strange by all accounts.. it was arrogant and inaccurate.. For example SOP was that in special cases (routinely done for juveniles) the arresting agency asks that the detainee be kept separate from other prisoners, which would not require a strip search. In fact according to Credic Barret (of USMS) says that they did NOT receive any such instruction from the State Department's Diplomatic Security Service, which carried out the arrest.

Unlike in the federal system, individuals arrested by the New York City Police Department are generally not subjected to strip searches in courthouse holding cells,

Strip searches are not a routine part of felony arrests in India.

So called learned men cannot fathom the following -- any reasonable person can:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
IMO, A strong case (criminal) exists to hold USMS and DSS (both in India and US) accountable. Since PB's statements and other evidence suggest that this was done with malice, and on purpose, the charges ought to be filed. PB may have immunity in US but he should have no immunity in Indian court.

Anyone knows, if a case is being filed in India against any DSS agent involved?
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vasu raya wrote:Key communications in Khobragade case revealed
[In its reply, the Indian Embassy said that Ms. Richard’s allegations against her former employer “are issues that are relevant to the relationship between the Government of India and its employees” and “not subject to U.S. regulation or adjudication”.
Every country is allowed to have laws that are considered egregious by others. For example the removal of underwear and lifting of skirts by police to finger genitals is allowed by law in the USA.

I wonder if it would be possible to find out - say from looking at gay sites or social media, which US diplomats and "dig-nit-e-ries" are homosexual.

In Russia homosexuality is a crime - so these people would be criminals in Russia.

In India, gay sex is a crime so while these people ware welcome in India they must not indulge in homosexual sex acts - which is illegal. A known homosexual in the US needs to be kept under surveillance since he would be at high risk of committing a criminal act in India.
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From that link on Venezuelan expulsion,
Maduro hasn't identified the officials but accuses them of infiltrating Venezuelan universities under the cover of doing consular work involving student visas.
India has to be certainly wary of these.
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Is US ambassador to India homosexual?
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Shiv,
The very effort to correct the current 'take advantage' practices by US Embassy, ND to being strictly reciprocal is still being perceived as a non productive issue, maybe people need to be told in clear terms that it is to avoid a repeat of a Kalam incident or an Indian Ambassador incident or a DK incident in the future

we have Mays and G... as the US reps, Mays left after anmolization, its now the turn of the latter types knowing fully well of what Indian legal system thinks of them
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vasu raya wrote:Shiv,
The very effort to correct the current 'take advantage' practices by US Embassy, ND to being strictly reciprocal is still being perceived as a non productive issue, maybe people need to be told in clear terms that it is to avoid a repeat of a Kalam incident or an Indian Ambassador incident or a DK incident in the future
What they say and do officially has nothing to do with public opinion. I work on a "public opinion" level and my opinion as stated in public is that

1. Americans who are suspected of breaking the law in India must be cavity searched and receive hospitality with protein starved Indian criminals
2. American homosexuals in India must be warned that they would be breaking the law if they had gay sex. That is the law after all. In India we respect our laws. We do not lift skirts and poke genitals of all and sundry.
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vic wrote:Is US ambassador to India homosexual?
I read a news snippet today that the US warned Russia that passing an anti-gay law in Russia would adversely affect US-Russia relations

On the surface it appears that the US is interfering with an internal Russian issue. But when I think about it I realize that Russia is causing takleef in the US because a gay US citizen or diplomat can be arrested in Russia as a criminal which he is according to Russian law. As a sovereign nation Russia has a right to impose its own laws just as Saudis do not allow anything other than Wahhabi islam and the US allows lifting of skirts and poking of genitals for suspected minor offences. Most likely there are at least some US diplomats in Russia who are gay and they must be wetting teir cavity covers.
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US violating Diplomatic immunity of India’s Diplomats in the US.
USTR threatening to sanction India under Section 301.
US FDA penalizing Indian Pharma companies.
US FAA sanctioning Indian Aviation.

Long past due date for junking the tired formulation of the US somehow being a “natural ally” of India. The US is not India's ally, natural or otherwise, neither has it ever been a natural ally as her provision of weapons to those who have used the same weapons to kill Indian's has shown:

Failure of US political leadership wrecking bilateral ties
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US talking about LGBT is hyprocrisy.
The end.
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Long past due date for junking the tired formulation of the US somehow being a “natural ally” of India.
HOW can you say this, hain? Consider the plight of India's neighbor, the MUNNA. The "NA" in MUNNA stands for "Natural Al-Lie". Means that thrice weekly, Predators take off and bless a different village each time with Arms Aid delivered from 10,000 feet.
Yemen is another MUNNA. Somalia is striving to become one. Surely you want that for India as well?
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I have said it before, the only way to keep USA a friend is that it should be a little wary of you. Otherwise USA thinks friend is a prostitute to be GUBOED
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