Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

[Sanku]

^^ There is no AP now. There is a T and there is a SA. What is the break up you expect BJP (including SS-NaMo combine) to aim for ?

[Yagnasri]

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... ttarget=no

[Sagar G]

Thanks. Not being a mindless Modi-bhakt-drone is indeed clarity of thought.

I congratulate you again for this splendid achievement.

[kapilrdave]

WOW!! Hindus showing their true colors!! On an issue which is not BJP or NaMo's doing, neither could they have done anything about it (split was inevitable sooner or later given the tussle), they want to desert their only savior. Believe me, I could never understand the blunders of hindus when I read history books, now I can understand how it would have happened when I see it happening in front of my eyes. THIS IS how we have been ruled by invaders for centuries.

BTW When did NM said that he is opposed to split? Even in Hyd rally, in front of lakhs of andhraites he said he wants both states to prosper and live happily. Saying 'congress is harvesting poison' is not equal to opposing the split. Split can be done without the poison also. SA posters had developed false sense of NM all these while. And now they say that NM is not standing by his words. What to do only??!!

There wouldn't be any bigger @@@ than the SAite who will vote for congress this time. But no, the modern Draupadi will vote for Dusshashan because Bhim couldn't/didn't help her. At least the old Draupadi had the sense to take the right side even after the humiliation. Bhim eventually did help her and killed Dusshashan. Also, the old Draupadi was at least married to Bhim so she had the right to ask for help from him, but the modern one is happily married to Dusshashan and asking help from Bhim and cursing him when she doesn't get it. Amazing!!

I think the same is going to happen after he becomes PM. People have imagined moons but NM is going to do only what he said which will still be a lot lot more than any past govt would have done. But we will still vote him out in 2019. Hindu hai to ch###ya banna jaruri hai.

[Yagnasri]

^^ There is no AP now. There is a T and there is a SA. What is the break up you expect BJP (including SS-NaMo combine) to aim for ?

There is still AP sir and will be there evenafter the division of AP. By the way there was never a entity called Telangana or Seemandra in the first place. The Telangana is a persian word for the localities wherein Telugu people under nizam rule used to live. The Rayalaseema and the costha ( that is the costal districts are the two other regions. SA is the word TRS goons coined and used for a Non Telangana areas.

BJP as of now aiming for nothing in 42 seats in real terms. It has no money bags, no local goondas, no charismatic or popular leader in any of these seats. There is no fixed vote bank cultivated in AP areas for decades. Most of the top leaders are middle class fellows at best own a maruthi 800. To expect them to take on INC/Jagan/TDP and win irrespective of NM is too much.

[Sagar G]

About Modi's view regarding AP division, some portion from his dated post about the same

Congress Party has neither been consistent nor transparent in its conduct over the creation of a Telangana state: Shri Modi blogs on creation of Telangana state: July 30, 2013

I would like to pose the following questions to the Congress party leadership and the UPA Government.

Question 1 – Where is your homework in terms of creating consensus in your own party, within the Government and within all political parties on the issue of Telangana when you have been speaking in so many divergent voices ?

Question 2 – Unlike capital cities that became shared capitals by virtue of being on the border between two states, Hyderabad becomes a shared capital despite being located well within Telangana. Thus, this does not justify the logic of sharing a capital albeit for a short duration. This leaves scope for operational difficulties.

Thus, how practical is it for a state to have a capital that does not lie either within its boundaries or along its borders?

Question 3 – What constructive measures have you taken to prepare the minds of the people of Andhra Pradesh and Rayalseema to welcome this decision on Telangana? What assurances have you provided to them so as to assuage their anxieties and to take them on board? Where is your “political roadmap” to creating this consensus among the people? All we have been hearing is that the issue is a “technical process.”

Question 4 – What commitments are you prepared to make to the people of Telangana, who have already suffered severe trauma over your many betrayals, that you will not take them for a ride one more time?

Question 5 – Many youngsters of Telangana have committed suicide. Hyderabad as an investment destination has suffered, the state of Andhra Pradesh has slipped. The state once considered the rice bowl of India has seen agricultural slides making it a state with high farmer suicides.

BJP’s Principles for a Meaningful Roadmap to all Regions of Andhra Pradesh

We stand by our commitment to statehood for Telangana. We however believe that the Roadmap should be such that it is a win-win solution to all the people of all regions. Statehood for one region should not be viewed as coming at the expense of another region.

We believe that this is an Opportunity for us to develop all the other major Cities of Andhra Pradesh across all regions so Vishakhapatnam, Vijayawada and Guntur, Warangal, Karimnagar and Ongole, Anantpur Kurnool and Kadapa etc. all stand to gain.

We respect the Constitution that Protects the Rights of all Citizens. The BJP will take every step to protect persons, families, businesses and assets of all the people of Andhra Pradesh living across regions irrespective where their roots may lie.

We are committed to reviving the economy of all the regions of Andhra Pradesh. Law and Order, Political Stability and a Dynamic Policy Regime will be our priorities. BJP will ensure that the benefits of River Water will reach all regions and water resources sharing will be fair, just and equitable.

We are committed to restoring Trust and Confidence once again of all regions There shall be no more cynical political games and no more betrayals.

We are committed to preserving the shared Telugu cultural heritage of all regions that shall in no way be affected by what is merely an administrative boundary. Telugu Culture and Pride shall remain boundary-less.

[kapilrdave]

Someone MUST publicly ask NaMo if he supports Varna Vyavastha. And the question is relevant because he was a pracharak in RSS and many RSS-apex people ave made statements in favor of Varna Vyavastha. So somone must publicly ask NaMo if he supports Varna Vyavastha. If he says "NO, I oppose Varna Vysvastha", then good, more dalit votes will go to and more glory to him. And if he says "YES, I support VV" OR gives gol gol answers, then he will lose dalit votes, and so be it. But its time we finish this VV for good. And this may-2014 seems to be good oppurtunity to finish VV. (I am anti-VV)

Rahulbhai, two points.

1. What is the point in asking about NM's view regarding VV? It sounds like you have made up your mind that anyone who supports VV is an anti SC/ST type which is not true. The ancient VV had different meaning and purpose than how it has been practiced recently. The more appropriate question would be that what form of VV does NM support. But that again is a pointless question because it is not relevant/practical in today's time. What gives?

2. Again, what is the point in asking about NM's view regarding VV? He may say yes or no. But what does that yes/know means in reality? They are just words. What matters is his action. NM is not pappu or farji whose track record is non-existent, hence we have to depend on their words. NM's work speaks for himself. He has done good work for STs in the state. Unless you have some real proof of him being anti SC/ST, there is no reason to believe otherwise. His personal view regarding original VV notwithstanding.

[kapilrdave]

Excellent post Disha ji.

kumarn, do share this link to your friend - http://en.newsbharati.com/Encyc/2012/11 ... state.aspx

In last 40 years, there only 4000 Check Dams had been constructed but in the last decade, 1,50,000 more Check Dams were built. The Check Dams have been created through the Public-Private Partnership model. The farmers are actively participating, in creating well tuned irrigation systems. About 1,349 small groups are formed and 3, 74,538 hectors are irrigated.

1,50,000 check dams is no joke. Read it full only.

[gandharva]

Basically restoring BJP back to the pre-decimation state(by ABV)

Kalyan Singh and Saffron Surge in UP

One man who has been working as zealously and tirelessly as Amit Shah for BJP’s Mission 2014 in Uttar Pradesh is Kalyan Singh. Singh who still awaits his formal re-induction in BJP is clearly a man with a mission. He is busy reviving his old BJP contacts and reaching out to forge new associations. His growing stature within the Party is apparent from the importance he is getting in Modi rallies across the state. If Modi mania is the undeniable macro factor which has given BJP a head start in UP, OBC mobilisation on a war scale is BJP’s chief electoral strategy in the state.

To cut into the crucial OBC vote share, BJP is not relying on Modi’s backward caste status alone and is employing the Party veteran and three times ex CM Kalyan Singh to woo the OBCs aggressively through a platform called Samajik Nyay Morcha. The platform was instituted by Rajnath Singh during his Chief Ministership to target a section of most backwards amongst the OBCs. But after lying neglected for a long time, the Morcha has been revived under the stewardship of national secretary Satendra Kushwaha. A series of meetings in all districts of the state have been planned before elections with Kalyan Singh as star speaker. Uma Bharti, Santosh Gangwar and Om Prakash Singh have also been assigned to the task. Some of the meetings of Samajik Nyay Morcha are likely to be addressed by Amit Shah also.

An interesting social amalgamation on the lines of Kurmi- Keori regrouping in Bihar has been going on in UP for quite some time with Kalyan Singh taking an active interest in the affair. With the help of community leaders he has been toiling for social cohesion of Lodh Rajputs (his own community), Mallahs (Nishads) and Kachhis (Shakyas) as a broader stratum by actively promoting intermarriages between the three castes. The political implication of this move in the state could well be a consolidated vote bank of roughly nine percent which is more than double the previous four percent leverage which Kalyan Singh as a Lodh leader has had up his sleeve.

The importance BJP is attaching to Kalyan Singh was evident when two district Presidents of the Party were removed for not co-operating with him. His growing clout within the Party was visible on his birthday on 5th of January this year. Unlike earlier when there would be hardly any visitors, his Mall avenue residence, on this day, was teeming with visitors. The crowd of birthday wishers was so big that florists and snack vendors who had put stalls outside his residence did a brisk business throughout the day.

Besides Kalyan Singh, Party has already inducted in its fold prominent OBC faces Phaggu Singh Chauhan, Rajesh Verma, Ram Rati Bind and Bhagwan Singh Shakya. It is also in touch with Ganga Charan Rajput ( second most popular Lodh leader after Kalyan Singh), SP Singh Baghel (three times MP- LS and presently Rajya Sabha MP from BSP) and Anupriya Patel of Apna Dal (Sone Lal Patel’s daughter).

BJP’s steady decline from 37 percent in 1998 Lok Sabha Polls when it struck gold with a kitty of 56 seats to a poor 15 percent in the last assembly elections has been mainly due to the desertion of OBC support. But with consolidation of Jats in its favour and a renewed enthusiasm amongst MBCs for a backward Modi as PM, a doubling of last year’s vote share is almost assured. In UP politics it signifies Kalyan Singh’s remarkable comeback and an OBC driven saffron surge.

http://centreright.in/2014/02/kalyan-si ... wSOl_joFUE

[member_20317]

Excellent post Disha ji.

kumarn, do share this link to your friend - http://en.newsbharati.com/Encyc/2012/11 ... state.aspx

In last 40 years, there only 4000 Check Dams had been constructed but in the last decade, 1,50,000 more Check Dams were built. The Check Dams have been created through the Public-Private Partnership model. The farmers are actively participating, in creating well tuned irrigation systems. About 1,349 small groups are formed and 3, 74,538 hectors are irrigated.

1,50,000 check dams is no joke. Read it full only.

kumarn ji,

ask your acquaintance if ~10% year on year growth in agriculture can be achieved in a naturally arid state for 10 years without water?

Also ask her if she is anti Hindu

[panduranghari]

One thing that I find interesting is how many NaMo supporters turned out to be so fickle. Interesting most NaMo followers turning around and blaming him, till date some how thought that NaMo and BJP are different as well.

Folks please get a grasp on reality. Please.

Sanku

You have to question if they were actually BJP supporters or we just assumed them to be?

[member_20317]

WOW!! Hindus showing their true colors!! On an issue which is not BJP or NaMo's doing, neither could they have done anything about it (split was inevitable sooner or later given the tussle), they want to desert their only savior. Believe me, I could never understand the blunders of hindus when I read history books, now I can understand how it would have happened when I see it happening in front of my eyes. THIS IS how we have been ruled by invaders for centuries.

[OT]

kapil bhai actually hindus have a keeda (sulaimani one) every twist and turn of which forces a hindu to take the high moral ground or the most insignificant of short term interests. In complete disregard of his own long term interests. Deserves its own thread.

HWASK - Hindu With A Sulaimani Keeda. My humble contribution to this world. May it find place in the BRF dictionary.

[/OT]

[prahaar]

Excellent post Disha ji.

kumarn, do share this link to your friend - http://en.newsbharati.com/Encyc/2012/11 ... state.aspx

In last 40 years, there only 4000 Check Dams had been constructed but in the last decade, 1,50,000 more Check Dams were built. The Check Dams have been created through the Public-Private Partnership model. The farmers are actively participating, in creating well tuned irrigation systems. About 1,349 small groups are formed and 3, 74,538 hectors are irrigated.

1,50,000 check dams is no joke. Read it full only.

I got this information from some contacts about a commercial spin to this water conservation drive. The commercial spin is less publicized because it may give undue publicity to profit making. The check dams and farm ponds are also being used indirectly by real estate entrepreneurs to create water bodies around "close to the nature" type of projects. So farm house plots, etc. near these water bodies are gaining appreciation. I would say it is a much more sustainable route than going for huge and expensive Lavasa type projects, which cause undue strain on water resources.

[kapilrdave]

^^ Check dams are definitely more sustainable and cheaper option. It has brought up the water level also. It helps nature also.

[Singha]

was done for 1000s of years in rain scarce areas of the peninsula.

[Sagar G]

50,000 onlee

[Singha]

liar liar yindu liar! thats only 5000.

[johneeG]

Some people are saying that lotus has nothing to lose because it had no stakes to start with:
Well, lotus has only 5 Cms(just checked the wiki) in the country with 25+ states. It may have presence in 5 more states. In rest of the states, its absent or is a marginal player. And its precisely because of this situation that it has been unable to come to power at center. So, if the lotus has the attitude that there is nothing to lose in places where they are not present(which means more than half the country), then they will end up screwing more than half the country just to be able to enter into those states.

As for nationalism: nationalist party that fans sub-regionalism. Trying to break states just because it is not present in those states! What pathetic nationalism is this? If a party can't win a state due to lack of leadership, they resort to breaking those states by inciting regionalism? And then they turn around and give lectures on unity and nationalism? Its a shame really. This is the best example of negative politics. And then, its ironic that people say,"regional parties divide while national parties unite."

If this great party can't break into T in future, then they will support further breaking of T into smaller states? So, they will keep slicing and dicing until the people support them? And kongis are supposed to be villians while this great party are the heros?

As for saving the Hindhus:
Lotus did not think about Hindhus of Hyd(a place with history of riots) and Hindhus of coastal & seema(with creeping conversions). They didn't even mention this angle as to whether the Hindhus and their interests will be protected in both the states particularly in Hyd. Just shows what the priorities of this so-called saffron party are! All the time, its only the electoral calculations. Infact, they don't even mind allying with the EJs. And if the Hindhus of that region don't support such a party with forked tongue and history of betrayals(after getting votes in the name of Raam), its supposed to be the fault of the Hindhus?!!!

Is the lotus promising something special for the Hindhus? No. It is just promising them that they will not be harmed. Thats all. Its saying that they will treat everyone equally: secularism. All the other parties are competing with each other to screw the Hindhus. So, lotus appears better only because one is dealing with the worst of the worst. But, taken on its own, lotus' record is not exemplary when it comes to Hindhu causes.

Actually, there is a perverse calculation here:
if the threat to Hindhus increases, then the major beneficiary will be the lotus. So, if the Hindhus of Hyd are threatened by the jihadhis and razakars, thats beneficial to the lotus because it allows them to grow in that area because the Hindhus will have to take refuge under the saffron party. What a great saviour of the Hindhus?! Create a threat, then act as a saviour!

Atleast, no one has any illusions about kongis and knows them to be scoundrels! Hindhus may still support lotus, but only because there are no other better options. That doesn't mean they have to drink the kool aid and insult their own intelligence.

The kongis are in terminal demise. They are going. If not in this election cycle, then later. But, they are going. So, hiding behind the failures of the kongis cannot be the solution for long.

[Hari Seldon]

johneeG garu

Atleast, no one has any illusions about kongis and knows them to be scoundrels! Hindhus may still support lotus, but only because there are no other better options. That doesn't mean they have to drink the kool aid and insult their own intelligence.

+1 only.

[Paul]

^^^^ This year it is Bharat Maa that has taken the place of Hindutva for BJP. Hindutva will not get them to the PM ship where they can execute right wing policies. They have to become a mainstream centre right party and let someone like Mahasabha take the Hindutva space.

So they have to go like what the Mullahs say in the mideast after the Arab spring. Democracy is a stop on the final destination viz Islmic state.

[RajeshA]

Cross-posting from AP Politics Thread.

It is possible that the BJP thinking may really have been to try to take over non-converted Reddys in Andhra Pradesh.

From the discussions here, as I have understood is, that in Telangana, the Velamas are in favor of TRS. The Reddys have become divided through the bifurcation.

In Seemandhra, the Reddys would still have influence, but in Telangana the Velamas would get the upper hand through TRS. Also many would be Seemandhra-based Reddys with commercial interests in Hyderabad and Telangana.

By taking over the opposition space in Telangana under the leadership of G. Kishen Reddy, many Reddys in Telangana may be willing to move to BJP, especially as Congress has caused the division of AP as well as division of Reddys.

Should BJP get the full support of non-converted Reddys in Telangana, they could later on expand it to Seemandhra region as well.

[gandharva]

Out of the Woods
How Modi Survived the 5/9 Conspiracy

http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/ ... -the-woods

[Comer]

johneeG
, how about the other way around? When did the Hindus as a group protect the BJP? You just checked that BJP was in power only in 5 states. Are those only the Hindu States? Apart from Karnataka did any state in south brought BJP to power? When the time comes to pick sides the Hindus vote on their sub regionalism. And BJP gets blamed for that too. Who really started this language based statehoods? Was BJP cause of that too?
We have pages and pages analysing Indicness and whatnot and when the first sign of BJP not behaving as per what some subregionalists expect people turn their back on them.
I do understand it is an issue close to people's hearts. But wrapping around in BJP subregionalism is not fair.
EDIT: apologise for not typing the username right

[fanne]

I hope people can see the politics, without being blind to the emotions.

1. Modi is not undisputed leader of BJP. He has no say in many matters, even as crucial as ticket distribution. From Reports, MMJ is again candidate from Varanasi, where he may loose (in UP if there is a sure shot BJP seat, this is it). He himself was to be candidate, he cannot be. Probably he has no say in RS son standing for LS, the son is not very popular (not because of any negatives, but there are other people more deserving). That is the limit of Modi's power.
2. We all know that SS is apposed to him (along with LKA and others). They believe their chance of PM ship is shot because of that. At some point of time before 2002, Modi was at best a PA to these people. They cannot stomach his rise. As said by now deceased BJP leader (google it), he has said, when asked about Modi chances for PM ship (after 2002), he said hum log kya bewakoof hain jo ek chaprasi ko PM bana de.
3. SS is the leader of opposition in LS. Between a battle of Nerve today between SS and NM on things that matter in LS, short of an open rebellion (and why is the need), SS will prevail, which she did. She has nothing to loose, NM has and he did. The LS has 2 days life left, the leader there is only for 2 days, why go for public rebellion?
4. Watch out RS. Jaitley is BJP leader and is not considered inimical to NM as such. I would assume things in RS may proceed in a way how NM may have wanted it to resume in LS (if NM has that much power). The problem for BJP is that RS has many 'top' leaders who may resent his rise. lets see how this one plays out.
rgds,
fanne

[kapilrdave]

johneeG garu, as per you what should have been BJP's stand on this issue? Please be neutral while answering and do account for T sentiments as well.

[RajeshA]

As for saving the Hindhus:
Lotus did not think about Hindhus of Hyd(a place with history of riots) and Hindhus of coastal & seema(with creeping conversions). They didn't even mention this angle as to whether the Hindhus and their interests will be protected in both the states particularly in Hyd. Just shows what the priorities of this so-called saffron party are! All the time, its only the electoral calculations. Infact, they don't even mind allying with the EJs. And if the Hindhus of that region don't support such a party with forked tongue and history of betrayals(after getting votes in the name of Raam), its supposed to be the fault of the Hindhus?!!!

I personally am less worried about the rhetoric of any Hindutva party, or even alliances it is forced to form to come to power. What is most important is that there is a hard core Hindutva establishment which does not forget the ultimate aim of the movement.

As far as means it has to adopt to reach there, they can do as much Taqiyya as they want.

It is the demographic explosion in India by the faithfuls, the accelerating spread of the missionaries, and the continued absence of Hindutvavadis from vast swaths of Bharat even after 67 years of independence that gives me reason to believe that such a Hindu establishment is either not there or is less than effective despite their efforts.

As far as Telangana and Seemandhra is concerned, there may be a play by Hindutva to try to win over the non-converted Reddys, first in Telangana and then in Seemandhra. It is still too early to say for sure.

[member_20317]

It is the demographic explosion in India by the faithfuls, the accelerating spread of the missionaries, and the continued absence of Hindutvavadis from vast swaths of Bharat even after 67 years of independence that gives me reason to believe that such a Hindu establishment is either not there or is less than effective despite their efforts.

A request to all Guru jan - do try out the following threads of narrative.

1) Islam was not the 'minority that was in khatra' in 36-47. That was only the Taquiya. After all Muslims of the subcontinent got what they wanted and Hindus did not. The reality could be that the Hindus were several due to the peculiar nature of its life. And it was not a case of a Majority Hindus vs. Minority Muslims, rather a case of United Muslims vs. Several Hindus. Kindly notice usage of several and not disunited (but still that would leave them a minority in essence).

2) The several Hindus were also rather ill-informed so they could always be fooled into voting for Congress. Not to ignore the fact that for a considerable time Congress did harbor good people too.

3) 71 was not exactly a victory (pyrrhic victory) in the sense that it took an inordinately large number of primarily hindus to get killed/refuged, before the GoI decided to take a stand. And despite the toll the outcome was not exactly a + for hindus.

4) 84 and 89 were the period where the much ‘defeated’ pakis still had the galls to challenge hindus in their own lands. Add the north east and Lankan fiasco and you get the picture.

5) december 6 1992 was not the old established tradition of hindus re-asserting itself. Rather the shudra varnic hindism taking birth. The message was simple (almost simplistic) and the birth pangs were as avoidable as a cesarean (riots). This shudra varnic Hinduism could command the support of a mere 25% of the voters (core ones that stayed on). This was the Phase 1. The somewhat childish phase where the cry of ‘aaj panch pradesh kal pura desh’ was considered a bright idea. But this phase established for good what a rational hindutva vaadi must sport as a dna.

6) NaMo is the vaishya varnic Hindutva adapted from the earlier phase 1 and is exactly as inevitable as the birth of the Phase 1 itself. There being 2 more phases to come in future. All the later phases being to enable a rational hindutva vaadi to learn how to use the environment around to his advantage.

7) The ‘NaMo only but not BJP’ supporters are the most fertile part of the bog where the lotus can grow. Provided it makes sense in a ‘appeasement of none’ manner. The other parts of the bog would in time make themselves available for the planting of lotus probably by the 3rd and 4th phase (unpredictable unfolding). Thus the bog is an opportunity and not a septic pollutant. Needless to admit there would be a part to get identified as a septic pollutant at various points, holistically or otherwise. This will actually be a septic pollutant, worthy of proper disposal.

8.) We will face new challenges (3.5 friends, RNI, isms) as we grow along our evolution curve.

I guess for all this to be considered the first thing to be accepted is the need to disabuse ourselves of the propaganda that Hindus constitute or have constituted a majority, in a abrahmic political sense. Hindus were several but jointly responsible for their own safety. But because of personal weakness they ended up used and abused.

[SwamyG]

People who support Modi for economic and development reasons would love this: http://www.newslaundry.com/2014/02/19/w ... ign=buffer

It is about agriculture progress in Gujarat.

[Yagnasri]

Cross posted from AP THREAD

The Non AP and NRI gurus do not recognize why people are upset. There are many reasons for that. 1. Most of the 'grievances" of Tvadis are blatant lies. 2. These lies are very insulting and calling a set of people as looters, cheats, evil people, frauds etc are said repeatedly on Tv for a decade. 3. Threats like cutting tongues, not allowing people who have gone home towns for festivals were said in public forums not just by TRS people but even by Congress, BJP, Naxals etc. 4. Threat of getting kicked out their homes and jobs is real and made many times by TRS, congress, BJP and naxals leaders repeatedly in public and on Tv. ( I personally known one small roadside hotel fellow who for being quite good and refused pay up for TRS forced to leave the city fearing for his life) 5. Jobs, education etc are immediately out of reach for non locals and their families back in home will now be terrified of sending their kids to the city. 5. The allegations of steatling water are made and threats that no water will be given are made time and again. Soon there is a real possibility that there will be no irrigation water for the delta regions and Rayalaseema will soon be a desert if something is not done. Even drinking water may be a problem. 6. Industries like film were asked to come to the city by Tvadis and now being told that they are settlors owned and looters etc.

As for as Telugu people voting for Congress for the 2 GEs. People forget that TDP was the strong supports to Atal rule without taking any ministry support and 2002 made them lose Muslim votes in 2004 and lost due to 10 years of anti incumbency which was regularly happening in all the states at that time. In fact since when UP was voting for mafia and its B teams? Yet BJP does not want to divide UP right?

BJP was offered 25 seats on a plater and refused it. Is this political intelligent? We can argue on principle of small states which is a big joke when you do not support division of UP or Vidharbha or Gurkha land ( which BJP promised) or Jammu or Ladakh or Bodoland. Let BJP have courage to say they will do at least some of these states in their election manifesto and see the reation? Will NM support Saurastra? There is a demand for that all and small states are being good should we not accept that.

Further on principles of BJP - What about Ramajanmabhumi? No one is speaking about that when in power right? No one was speaking Art 370 when in power and common civil court. Colorful justification of not being in NDA agenda was given at that time. Is smaller states in NDA agenda now? What does Siva Sena feels about Vidharbha?

The reality is BJP is just another political party which for power uses Hindu vote bank. Just because some of their leaders are quite good honest do not make them take correst in every move. They are now acting stupidly and losing a chance to a sure shot win for 25 MP seats. Had they stopped division and if they do even in RS then demand 25 MP seats for themselves and I am sure they will win every seats hands down. CBN will give up all the seats and there is huge Qs before BJP for tickets. Now they will not even win a single seat in Telangana which they supported so for.

But I guess BJP lack political agility and cut throat actions. Mafia can ditch 25 seats and pop up a B team to win them but BJP can not take the same 25 seats when they are offered on a plate. No wonder they were betten in 2004 and 2009.

In the end most of the big city voters voted for mafia in 2009. MH supported mafia for decades does MH also deserve the same kinds of treatment? Surly they deserve mafia rule better than AP fellows wherein TDP lost to mafia with 1% vote difference after PRP divided 18% votes and YSR threats of needing a passport to visit the city because CBN supported division.

But that game is not yet fully played. As per media reports just out mafia queen requested MMS to give 5 year tax benefit for residual AP state. Too late for that as BJP is now forcing amendments in RS. I guess mafia queen is going to call BJP bluff in RS tomorrow and let us see what happens. May be NM come and personal looking into the management of T action in RS than doing rallies in places like Davanagere.

[RajeshA]

Narayana Rao ji,

IMO, AP Reorganization Bill, being a money bill, Rajya Sabha does not really have much authority to do changes. Even if they do changes, Lok Sabha can reject them. If Rajya Sabha does not return the bill for two weeks, it automatically becomes Law.

There is not much BJP can do in RS.

Telangana is real. Justice for Seemandhra, I can't say!

[Sagar G]

BJP was offered 25 seats on a plater and refused it.

A state where BJP has no presence or heft would have given BJP 25 LS seats on a platter !!!!! Yeah sure

Isn't there a thread for people from AP to whine about this division why this x posting here and doubling of the same whine ???

[gashish]

^^^ +1

[member_28397]

Cross posted from AP THREAD

The Non AP and NRI gurus do not recognize why people are upset. There are many reasons for that. 1. Most of the 'grievances" of Tvadis are blatant lies. 2. These lies are very insulting and calling a set of people as looters, cheats, evil people, frauds etc are said repeatedly on Tv for a decade. 3. Threats like cutting tongues, not allowing people who have gone home towns for festivals were said in public forums not just by TRS people but even by Congress, BJP, Naxals etc. 4. Threat of getting kicked out their homes and jobs is real and made many times by TRS, congress, BJP and naxals leaders repeatedly in public and on Tv. ( I personally known one small roadside hotel fellow who for being quite good and refused pay up for TRS forced to leave the city fearing for his life) 5. Jobs, education etc are immediately out of reach for non locals and their families back in home will now be terrified of sending their kids to the city. 5. The allegations of steatling water are made and threats that no water will be given are made time and again. Soon there is a real possibility that there will be no irrigation water for the delta regions and Rayalaseema will soon be a desert if something is not done. Even drinking water may be a problem. 6. Industries like film were asked to come to the city by Tvadis and now being told that they are settlors owned and looters etc.

As for as Telugu people voting for Congress for the 2 GEs. People forget that TDP was the strong supports to Atal rule without taking any ministry support and 2002 made them lose Muslim votes in 2004 and lost due to 10 years of anti incumbency which was regularly happening in all the states at that time. In fact since when UP was voting for mafia and its B teams? Yet BJP does not want to divide UP right?

BJP was offered 25 seats on a plater and refused it. Is this political intelligent? We can argue on principle of small states which is a big joke when you do not support division of UP or Vidharbha or Gurkha land ( which BJP promised) or Jammu or Ladakh or Bodoland. Let BJP have courage to say they will do at least some of these states in their election manifesto and see the reation? Will NM support Saurastra? There is a demand for that all and small states are being good should we not accept that.

Further on principles of BJP - What about Ramajanmabhumi? No one is speaking about that when in power right? No one was speaking Art 370 when in power and common civil court. Colorful justification of not being in NDA agenda was given at that time. Is smaller states in NDA agenda now? What does Siva Sena feels about Vidharbha?

The reality is BJP is just another political party which for power uses Hindu vote bank. Just because some of their leaders are quite good honest do not make them take correst in every move. They are now acting stupidly and losing a chance to a sure shot win for 25 MP seats. Had they stopped division and if they do even in RS then demand 25 MP seats for themselves and I am sure they will win every seats hands down. CBN will give up all the seats and there is huge Qs before BJP for tickets. Now they will not even win a single seat in Telangana which they supported so for.

But I guess BJP lack political agility and cut throat actions. Mafia can ditch 25 seats and pop up a B team to win them but BJP can not take the same 25 seats when they are offered on a plate. No wonder they were betten in 2004 and 2009.

In the end most of the big city voters voted for mafia in 2009. MH supported mafia for decades does MH also deserve the same kinds of treatment? Surly they deserve mafia rule better than AP fellows wherein TDP lost to mafia with 1% vote difference after PRP divided 18% votes and YSR threats of needing a passport to visit the city because CBN supported division.

But that game is not yet fully played. As per media reports just out mafia queen requested MMS to give 5 year tax benefit for residual AP state. Too late for that as BJP is now forcing amendments in RS. I guess mafia queen is going to call BJP bluff in RS tomorrow and let us see what happens. May be NM come and personal looking into the management of T action in RS than doing rallies in places like Davanagere.

I fail to see why no finger raising on CONs after all its the CONs who have the massive vote share in Seema Andhra, why you are forgetting its you SEEMA ANDHRA guys(You are the ones to be blamed) and your representatives who are splitting your state. BJP has a minuscule presence in Telangana and they supported Telangana from 98' onwards. For an outsider like me I see no difference between Bengalis, Keralites or Andhras all pseudos' secularists are heading towards doom with the representation they always choose.

[SanjayC]

Some people are saying that lotus has nothing to lose because it had no stakes to start with:
Well, lotus has only 5 Cms(just checked the wiki) in the country with 25+ states. It may have presence in 5 more states

This is more a reflection of the stupidity of the Hindus than incompetence of the BJP.

[abhik]

x-post:

Why BJP is very upset with Sushma Swaraj

BJP sources said their party has consistently maintained that while it is committed to the formation of a separate state of Telangana, it also wanted the concerns of the Seema-Andhra region to be adequately addressed. Oddly enough, Sushma Swaraj did not press this issue in the Lok Sabha on Tuesday.

“Sushma Swaraj has effectively spoilt Modi’s party in Andhra Pradesh,” remarked a senior BJP leader. A section in the party was quick to point fingers at Swaraj for deliberately queering the pitch for Modi

If this is infact true then SS has to be kicked out. If LK Advani can be forced to give his resignation over Jhinna comments this is the least they can do for sabotaging.

[SanjayC]

johneeG, how about the other way around? When did the Hindus as a group protect the BJP?

Exactly. Dharma protects those who protect Dharma. Hindus who vote for Cong and impose the duty of safeguarding their interests on BJP need to be shown the middle finger (or given a Darwin award).

[Yagnasri]

http://www.rediff.com/news/report/why-b ... 140219.htm

We know the true colors of Sushma now.

[vineetmehta]

Dear admins,

I wanted to know if i can pick up information from this forum and post it on a NaMo page which I have created on FB? The objective of the FB page is to provide information to friends which is not easily available from common sources. Honestly, I am not a good writer but what is discussed here is really an asset. It would be great if I can pick some pieces of information towards showing that NaMo for PM is a reality.

I am open to your suggestions.

Thanks a lot.

[johneeG]

BJP was offered 25 seats on a plater and refused it.

A state where BJP has no presence or heft would have given BJP 25 LS seats on a platter !!!!! Yeah sure

They would have and thats precisely why its supreme foolishness from lotus that it let go off the opportunity to build itself in a completely new area without breaking a sweat if it had the guts to do that. It squandered that opportunity. Now, lotus and its supporters will turn around and blame the people for not voting in the lotus. Basically, they follow wrong strategy, have a weak/inept/compromised leadership, betray the core agendas, squander opportunities and then turn around and blame the people.

United AP stance for the Coastal and Seema regions, while a Hindhuthva stance for T was a winning combination for the lotus. And it could have actually circumvented the existing leadership and perhaps created new leadership in the region.

Rajesh A saar,
the existing leadership is mostly part of the mess. The need is to circumvent this leadership and develop alternate leadership.

johneeG
, how about the other way around? When did the Hindus as a group protect the BJP? You just checked that BJP was in power only in 5 states. Are those only the Hindu States? Apart from Karnataka did any state in south brought BJP to power? When the time comes to pick sides the Hindus vote on their sub regionalism. And BJP gets blamed for that too. Who really started this language based statehoods? Was BJP cause of that too?
We have pages and pages analysing Indicness and whatnot and when the first sign of BJP not behaving as per what some subregionalists expect people turn their back on them.
I do understand it is an issue close to people's hearts. But wrapping around in BJP subregionalism is not fair.
EDIT: apologise for not typing the username right

Some people are saying that lotus has nothing to lose because it had no stakes to start with:
Well, lotus has only 5 Cms(just checked the wiki) in the country with 25+ states. It may have presence in 5 more states

This is more a reflection of the stupidity of the Hindus than incompetence of the BJP.

There is a lot of incompetence of lotus and also local factors why lotus is not present in many areas of the country.

Link to a post on that topic

Link to another post

johneeG garu, as per you what should have been BJP's stand on this issue? Please be neutral while answering and do account for T sentiments as well.

I'll reply later to this post, saar, unless I forget. But, in essence, lotus should have behaved like a responsible national party instead of behaving like a 2 bit sub-regional party that cannot look beyond its 2 seats. Advani's stance was the most correct one. The incumbent sarkaar has no moral authority left to decide on any issue any longer. It should just stop tormenting the country further. Infact, lotus should have brought down this sarkaar after the 4-0.

----
X-post from internal security thread:
Two developments on the same day point to the movements:
a) +1 to Thamil nationalism.
b) -1 to Thelugu nationalism.

Link to the post on this topic

Link to post

Similarly, the uproar over khalisthan(amirkhan opening a case on antionio on this issue) and trying to widen the fissures with the North-east (notice that it was the faithfools who are attacking the north-easterners due to the fall out of Burma, but they have been shielded and instead this has been made into a 'racism' issue). along with the rise of Fordriwal who promises revolution. Basically, all the secessionist forces getting strengthened while the integrationist forces getting weakened. All these are not necessarily the handiwork of the kongis. The kongis are facilitators but not necessarily the prime movers.

[disha]

50,000 onlee

I counted 5 and my eyes hurt. Hence only 5 attended.