AP Politics and runup to 2014 General elections

[a_bharat]

Non Telugu folks get off your high horses; your schadenfreude is unbecoming.

If you think BJP discharged its duty as the main opposition party in the Lok Sabha, you have simply become blind faithfools. I don't even comment on Congress because it is beneath contempt.

[RajeshA]

I don't even comment on Congress because it is beneath contempt.

That is a pity. Many who hold this view, think that if they say anything more about Congress, they would become foul-mouths and thus fall in their own eyes. So they choose to not be too abusive of Congress or simply ignore it.

The fallout of going silent on Congress is that many non-political people or those on the fence, think that Congress is okay, and the self-criticism within Hindutva is perceived by people as being directed at the main villain.

Congress deserves a lot more brickbats, in fact round-the-clock brickbats, while BJP needs some more political leeway.

[vivek_v]

I don't understand the comments on the anger towards the BJP,

a) BJP always supported Telangana and as a principle supports creation of smaller states for better administration. It would have been funny if they did not support Telangana now for getting a few extra seats (with is also very hypothetical).

b) BJP was anyways a marginal presence outside Telangana. Now at-least with separation if KCR-Congress merges or forms an alliance it would take up the role of Principle opposition party. With the Jagan's and Naidu's , i am not sure how easy or otherwise to suddenly make it big in the SA region. Plus there are powerful cast combinations to beat in the SA region. It would have made sense to go with the known devil than an unknown angel.

c) The people who caused this mess was the Congress who had something like 32 MP's from this region. Without even having a single MP and no chance for opening account in future, how come anyone expects BJP to drop its existing ideology and jump ship ?

I have no idea on what type of package was negotiated for SA but nothing could possibly compensate for the loss of Hyd and collective bargaining strength in Center with 42 MP's and things should have been handled better but I am not sure why anger is directed towards BJP when Congress is in both Center and State.

[merlin]

BJP can be given all the leeway it wants after they have won the elections, not before. Any leeway given might lead to slackening of efforts.

[Hari Seldon]

I agree.

The hoary condescension of purporting to 'advice' us dumb Telugus on why we deserve to be shafted is way overdone. So somebody says he's disappointed in namo's actions in this matter. I did. So effing WHAT?! My opinion's not as good as yours?

--pointless deleted--

P.S. and disclaimer:
I wish namo well and hope he makes it to the red fort on 15-Aug-2014. Whether I and folks like me want to invest any further emotional and rational association with his party is a different issue. Chances are the storm will pass and we'll be back in action soon, fighting the good fight. But somehow the heart's heavy, it no longer feels like the good fight anymore. Thanks and have a nice day.

[prahaar]

Non Telugu folks get off your high horses; your schadenfreude is unbecoming.

If you think BJP discharged its duty as the main opposition party in the Lok Sabha, you have simply become blind faithfools. I don't even comment on Congress because it is beneath contempt.

Sir, with full respect there is no such thing as schadenfreude happening, may be for some in Telengana, most people in India wanted a speedy amicable resolution of this problem. Whether the resolution was amicable or just, based on the current feedback, clearly it is not. Most people who may disagree with you, do not necessarily look down upon you (at least on this forum, I presume). The sense of bewilderment is because of the lacerating reactions against BJP, who were at best an aspiring player in AP. About inept handling of parliamentary affairs, BJP-PP has on more than one occasion failed to display the sharpness that many of its state leaders have demonstrated.

The funny thing is that many in AP support Jagan, whose father was the brain behind resurrecting Telengana, yet there is more venom against NM/BJP than YSR uttaradhikari. Any light on that would be very helpful.

[Paul]

The behaviour is similar to Bush going after Saddam for 911 even though he knew that Saddam did not do it.

[RajeshA]

It is possible that the BJP thinking may really have been to try to take over non-converted Reddys in Andhra Pradesh.

From the discussions here, as I have understood is, that in Telangana, the Velamas are in favor of TRS. The Reddys have become divided through the bifurcation.

In Seemandhra, the Reddys would still have influence, but in Telangana the Velamas would get the upper hand through TRS. Also many would be Seemandhra-based Reddys with commercial interests in Hyderabad and Telangana.

By taking over the opposition space in Telangana under the leadership of G. Kishen Reddy, many Reddys in Telangana may be willing to move to BJP, especially as Congress has caused the division of AP as well as division of Reddys.

Should BJP get the full support of non-converted Reddys in Telangana, they could later on expand it to Seemandhra region as well.

[vivek.rao]

MAFIA Queen will come up with some way to CON BJP. Lets see if they can outwit that lady

[RajeshA]

BJP can be given all the leeway it wants after they have won the elections, not before. Any leeway given might lead to slackening of efforts.

It is actually before the elections that the party needs more political leeway as they need to make more promises and compromises. Post-elections it is delivery time.

[vina]

Non Telugu folks get off your high horses; your schadenfreude is unbecoming.

If you think BJP discharged its duty as the main opposition party in the Lok Sabha, you have simply become blind faithfools. I don't even comment on Congress because it is beneath contempt.

Was watching P Chidambaram interview with Barkha Dutt. Would urge everyone in this thread to watch it. He gave reasons why the decision was made, how both sides were absolutely adamant and that there was no meeting point between the two sides , despite multiple levels of folks , emissaries, Sri Krishna commission talking to both sides.

Fact is, this is a messy divorce, not by mutual consent , but really asked for by T areas , and it is now a bitter fight over the division of assets . Ordinary folks have nothing to do with , let politicos and baboons have heartburn over this. Take a chill pill and relax. Now skin off your nose. With the special status coming your way, crash industrialize Seemandhra.

[fanne]

MAFIA Queen will come up with some way to CON BJP. Lets see if they can outwit that lady

Mafia Queen has successfully outwitted, 6 carores APites, so much so that they blame BJP for this mess, they will vote her or her B team to power (mark my word, Con itself will be the biggest party in 42 seats, with its B teams, it will still reap a richer harvest). It will still have more votes than BJP both in SeemaAndhra and Telengana.
So to blame some odd 500 BJP office bearer in being conned by Mafia Queen is an understatement.

In Rape analogy, they are not blaming the rapist, who btw raped them few times, after they themselve invited the rapist to their house, rather they blame the police officer (no not the current one), but the one who promises to come to the city after he has passed his exam of officer recruitment!! Talk about Stockholm syndrome!!

[RajeshA]

In Rape anology, they are not blaming the rapist, who btw raped them few times, after they themselve invited the rapist to their house, rather they blame the police officer (no not the current one), but the one who promises to come to the city after he has passed his exam of officer recruitment!! Talk about Stockholm syndrome!!

That sounds about right!

[vina]

I agree.

The hoary condescension of purporting to 'advice' us dumb Telugus on why we deserve to be shafted is way overdone. So somebody says he's disappointed in namo's actions in this matter. I did. So effing WHAT?! My opinion's not as good as yours?

--pointless deleted--

P.S. and disclaimer:
I wish namo well and hope he makes it to the red fort on 15-Aug-2014. Whether I and folks like me want to invest any further emotional and rational association with his party is a different issue. Chances are the storm will pass and we'll be back in action soon, fighting the good fight. But somehow the heart's heavy, it no longer feels like the good fight anymore. Thanks and have a nice day.

I really don't see what the big deal is for the ordinary Telugu. If UP is divided in 3 should the Hindiwallahs do R&D? You don't do that for Yanam, and Tamils don't do it for Pondicherry . If you are fine with yanam in Pondicherry , why this big Hoo ha over telengana? What difference does it make?

[Karan M]

Let me get this right. Entire AP voted for Cong , not once but twice even when Cong Promised Telengana in 2004. BJP had no presence, no stake
BJP all along went with the stand , that they are for division of the state into Telengana and SA. The Congis played a dirty game and all the pro and anti groups are playing the roles assigned by High command.
However BJP stuck to its stand till the end as they said they are for Telangana in principle. Oh but is all BJP's fault only, so we will vote some one else who in the end will join cong. All is well. We stopped communal forces. If this is the thinking, I have no hopes. Let us welcome RG baba as PM. Let Namo stay in Gujarat. Atleast those people have done some Punya to get him as their leader.

What were SA guys and MLAs doing from 2004?

Exactly. My state (where I was born and grew up in) was divided into two states on the basis of the small states principle. I disliked it then & still think it was better off as one, but the die is cast and so it continues. A lady I met from the new state does not even identify with the older one. Such is life. This stuff is at best temporary and the need of the hour is good governance nationwide. I don't see how attacking the BJP really helps. They may have misread the situation, but frankly, they have little to no presence in AP anyhow, so how does their support (or lack thereof) affect the situation on the ground? I do hope the BJP prevents any shortcut of the process in Parliament and does the right thing.

But ultimately, the issue will not get resolved unless those insisting on T'gana get a political resolution or are coopted somehow, and I hope that occurs. Reports also suggest that 60-70% of the people in AP today are against this move, and a vocal minority has hijacked the discourse, if so, its high time the rabble rousers were put paid to. And again, that can only happen if the INC is not in power (IMHO) because the INC has a vested interest in making Telengana happen. BJP may be supporting this out of its belief that small states are better governance wise etc, but INC doesn't believe in all that. Also, its AP today, and probably UP tomorrow. Perhaps we are headed for multiple smaller states and I do hope that those decisions are taken for the right reasons not captive votebanks.

[Karan M]

I agree.

The hoary condescension of purporting to 'advice' us dumb Telugus on why we deserve to be shafted is way overdone. So somebody says he's disappointed in namo's actions in this matter. I did. So effing WHAT?! My opinion's not as good as yours?

--pointless deleted--

P.S. and disclaimer:
I wish namo well and hope he makes it to the red fort on 15-Aug-2014. Whether I and folks like me want to invest any further emotional and rational association with his party is a different issue. Chances are the storm will pass and we'll be back in action soon, fighting the good fight. But somehow the heart's heavy, it no longer feels like the good fight anymore. Thanks and have a nice day.

I don't think anyone can and will condescend to you Hari ji.

And we do understand how you must be feeling. The T-issue seems to be a particularly pernicious one where wheeler dealers and all sorts of vested interests have hijacked the discourse and decisions taken without public involvement, feel particularly bitter. Nobody likes forced decisions made on their behalf.

[Karan M]

I agree.

The hoary condescension of purporting to 'advice' us dumb Telugus on why we deserve to be shafted is way overdone. So somebody says he's disappointed in namo's actions in this matter. I did. So effing WHAT?! My opinion's not as good as yours?

--pointless deleted--

P.S. and disclaimer:
I wish namo well and hope he makes it to the red fort on 15-Aug-2014. Whether I and folks like me want to invest any further emotional and rational association with his party is a different issue. Chances are the storm will pass and we'll be back in action soon, fighting the good fight. But somehow the heart's heavy, it no longer feels like the good fight anymore. Thanks and have a nice day.

I really don't see what the big deal is for the ordinary Telugu. If UP is divided in 3 should the Hindiwallahs do R&D? You don't do that for Yanam, and Tamils don't do it for Pondicherry . If you are fine with yanam in Pondicherry , why this big Hoo ha over telengana? What difference does it make?

In the India I grew up in (not so hoary past and all that) we did have a deep emotional connect to our states. Heck, in college I even remember state wise groups. Even today, it feels good to meet people from your hometown or state. For states formed on the original basis of language, its a double whammy - not only is it your state, but it has your "people" as well. To have it split and your people divided, is a big deal.

[Lilo]

I agree.

The hoary condescension of purporting to 'advice' us dumb Telugus on why we deserve to be shafted is way overdone. So somebody says he's disappointed in namo's actions in this matter. I did. So effing WHAT?! My opinion's not as good as yours?

--pointless deleted--

P.S. and disclaimer:
I wish namo well and hope he makes it to the red fort on 15-Aug-2014. Whether I and folks like me want to invest any further emotional and rational association with his party is a different issue. Chances are the storm will pass and we'll be back in action soon, fighting the good fight. But somehow the heart's heavy, it no longer feels like the good fight anymore. Thanks and have a nice day.

Hari garu,
I agree , BJP having the status of National Opposition ( a constitutionally mandated role) miserably failed to protect the interests of Telugu people (who are in the last count as Indian as any ) even if for the rest of them here on the board seemandhra people didn't vote for BJP so they are less Indian than them .
I don't give two hoots to all the stupid analogies of Sita , Draupadi marrying Ravan Dushhashan etc being thrown to single and tar us just for them to be able to say - Ohh you got screwed over? You deserved it !!

Any shallow two bit person can come up with above but it takes more than that to say something actually relevant to the situation.

Similar is the case of members using the support welling up for EJ Jagan as projected in media and demanding to know why BJP is now an untouchable in AP - well when every national party has withdrawn their hands from the Telugus when it was asked from them not as an innate right (coming from actually representing them in parliament) but reminded as a duty of doing the Right thing in the Right way....Obviously their final recourse will be to side with those who they now perceive to represent their interests through thick and thin - so each to his own perceptions.
I personally as might many others on this board will go with TDP as I perceive that they are the only party which cares for AP people - so if TDP joins turd front so be it I am with TDP, if TDP joins BJP I am with TDP if TDP joins the Devil I am with TDP and so on.

Anyway seeing all the oldies here taking this line of SAs didn't elect BJP so BJP has no requirement to not to screw SAs was itself sufficiently puke inducing due to the hypocrisy to the hitherto avowed cause of common Bharateeyata .

Agreed.you want "your" BJP to emerge victorious in the next election so you can't accept that "your" BJP was complicit in the collective screwing of SAs in parliament .OK fine with me. Each to his own delusions I guess.
Anyway i hope for best of luck to NaMo , may he find more supporters else where. Hope he becomes PM and things will change.
Finally my support for him finds itself at an end with the previous sentence.

[geeth]

What annoys me most is that people seem to be not too bothered about the emotional detachment of people of two regions speaking same language, but quarrel over division of assets. So, as I understand it both agree to divide the the state, but disagree about who should get what assets and resources. Basically this boils down to a fight between powerful politicos and rich men and they are twisting things according to their interest. In this melee all these crooks are forgetting that there is a country called India and its interests are paramount. As an Indian, why the f&#k should I care who will be better off grabbing Hyderabad in their kitty, if ultimately it is to the detriment of my country.

Yes, I will continue to sit on my high horse and condescend, because that is the least I can do against the chu#%yappa going on in the name of division of Andhra. With no disrespect to Laloo or Biharis, even they behaved in a much more respectful way, when Bihar was divided. At that time Advani was HM (betenoire of Laloo) Bihar lost most of its natural resources..by behaving in such cantankerous ways, Telugu people are making division of any other state that much more difficult.

It is high time India shows Telugus their place in the country

[abhik]

What exactly were SA people expecting from BJP/Modi? It can't be the stopping of the creation of Telangana, both BJP and Modi have consistently maintained that they are for the creation of Telangana(whatever the reasons be). They could be possibly blamed for the manner in which it was passed and the BJPs role in it letting it happens. But what is more important than the method, however bad it may be, is the result. Soone can make a case against them if they have not ensured a "Fair deal" for Seemandhra. A point wise comparison of what was expected and what is actually there in black and white is required to gauge the "fairness" or "unfairness". But it seems like there is no interest in discussing the actual merits of the this bill. One gets the feeling the SA folks do not want the separation, maybe for sentimental reasons. I can can understand position. But to blame BJP or Modi for something they did not promise is unreasonable.

[Rahul M]

I empathise with those who feel hard done by the split. what baffles me is why modi is being blamed for it ?

could someone please explain what they realistically expected bjp/modi to do ?
only thing I can come up with is they could have abstained from voting by saying 'while are not necessarily against split we oppose it in the current form'. but even then the bill would have been passed.

[Yagnasri]

The Non AP and NRI gurus do not recognize why people are upset. There are many reasons for that. 1. Most of the 'grievances" of Tvadis are blatant lies. 2. These lies are very insulting and calling a set of people as looters, cheats, evil people, frauds etc are said repeatedly on Tv for a decade. 3. Threats like cutting tongues, not allowing people who have gone home towns for festivals were said in public forums not just by TRS people but even by Congress, BJP, Naxals etc. 4. Threat of getting kicked out their homes and jobs is real and made many times by TRS, congress, BJP and naxals leaders repeatedly in public and on Tv. ( I personally known one small roadside hotel fellow who for being quite good and refused pay up for TRS forced to leave the city fearing for his life) 5. Jobs, education etc are immediately out of reach for non locals and their families back in home will now be terrified of sending their kids to the city. 5. The allegations of steatling water are made and threats that no water will be given are made time and again. Soon there is a real possibility that there will be no irrigation water for the delta regions and Rayalaseema will soon be a desert if something is not done. Even drinking water may be a problem. 6. Industries like film were asked to come to the city by Tvadis and now being told that they are settlors owned and looters etc.

As for as Telugu people voting for Congress for the 2 GEs. People forget that TDP was the strong supports to Atal rule without taking any ministry support and 2002 made them lose Muslim votes in 2004 and lost due to 10 years of anti incumbency which was regularly happening in all the states at that time. In fact since when UP was voting for mafia and its B teams? Yet BJP does not want to divide UP right?

BJP was offered 25 seats on a plater and refused it. Is this political intelligent? We can argue on principle of small states which is a big joke when you do not support division of UP or Vidharbha or Gurkha land ( which BJP promised) or Jammu or Ladakh or Bodoland. Let BJP have courage to say they will do at least some of these states in their election manifesto and see the reation? Will NM support Saurastra? There is a demand for that all and small states are being good should we not accept that.

Further on principles of BJP - What about Ramajanmabhumi? No one is speaking about that when in power right? No one was speaking Art 370 when in power and common civil court. Colorful justification of not being in NDA agenda was given at that time. Is smaller states in NDA agenda now? What does Siva Sena feels about Vidharbha?

The reality is BJP is just another political party which for power uses Hindu vote bank. Just because some of their leaders are quite good honest do not make them take correst in every move. They are now acting stupidly and losing a chance to a sure shot win for 25 MP seats. Had they stopped division and if they do even in RS then demand 25 MP seats for themselves and I am sure they will win every seats hands down. CBN will give up all the seats and there is huge Qs before BJP for tickets. Now they will not even win a single seat in Telangana which they supported so for.

But I guess BJP lack political agility and cut throat actions. Mafia can ditch 25 seats and pop up a B team to win them but BJP can not take the same 25 seats when they are offered on a plate. No wonder they were betten in 2004 and 2009.

In the end most of the big city voters voted for mafia in 2009. MH supported mafia for decades does MH also deserve the same kinds of treatment? Surly they deserve mafia rule better than AP fellows wherein TDP lost to mafia with 1% vote difference after PRP divided 18% votes and YSR threats of needing a passport to visit the city because CBN supported division.

But that game is not yet fully played. As per media reports just out mafia queen requested MMS to give 5 year tax benefit for residual AP state. Too late for that as BJP is now forcing amendments in RS. I guess mafia queen is going to call BJP bluff in RS tomorrow and let us see what happens. May be NM come and personal looking into the management of T action in RS than doing rallies in places like Davanagere.

[Lilo]

What annoys most is that people seem to be not too bothered about the emotional detachement of people of two regions speaking same language, but quarrel over division of assets. So, as I understand it both agree to divide the the state, but disagree about who should get what assets and resources. Basically this boils down to a fight between powerful politicos and rich men and they are twisting things according to their interest. In this melee all these crooks are forgetting that there is a country called India and its interests are paramount. As an Indian, why the f&#k should I care who will be better off grabbing Hyderabad in their kitty, if ultimately it is to the detriment of my country.

Yes, I will continue to sit on my high horse and condescend, because that is the least I can do against the chu#%yappa going on in the name of division of Andhra. With no disrespect to Laloo or Biharis, even they behaved in a much more respectful way, when Bihar was divided. At that time Advani was HM (betenoire of Laloo) Bihar lost most of its natural resources..by behaving in such cantankerous ways, Telugu people are making division of any other state that much more difficult.

It is high time India shows Telugus their place in the country.

Geeth Mahashay ji,
Now that you have waded into the middle of this thread to give a piece of your little mind with obviously little grip on the issue as plainly apparent in your quoted post, you are most welcome on the bolded part.

[Yagnasri]

As I was saying mafia is going to call BJP bluff in RS tomorrow. Let us see what kind of stuff they are made of.

The last word on Art 3 is yet to said and this matter will go to Supreme Court. Art 371D is also there which is very difficult to amend. Surly the so called absolute power of parliament in Art 3 can not be exercised in the manner it was done.

Wait and see the drama for at least one more day. Later see how Sushma supports Rahuls pet bills one of which i guess passed today.

[SandeepA]

After a point it was obvious the Telangana will happen this way or that. However once the Mafia-gang decided on Telangana they decided to go the whole hog and treat SA with the contempt Telanganites have for it as this was the only sure shot way to get their votes. This was still okay as we expected the BJP help to push the Telangana decision to after they come to power as only that would mean and equitable division where SA concerns are addressed and not bulldozed out to please Telangana. When this didnt happen and on the contrary SS goes about actually accepting the bill given the humiliating circumstances of the last few days we realised there is no way to go. There is nothing we got by way of a package and the 2 national parties were now gleefully seeking votes from the triumphant T-vadis leaving us to Jagan and his crooks. I do accept the state never voted for the BJP but this being an Indic cause it was expected to find sympathy and we were badly shafted instead. The gripe with Modi is that being the PM candidate for the party he seemed to be powerless in the face of SS/LKA and let the state be split under Congi watch.
Summary is that we would have been happy if the bifurcation happened under NaMo's watch as it meant justice would be done. But now we have to accept whatever crumbs are thrown at us and build a new state.

[Paul]

We can argue on principle of small states which is a big joke when you do not support division of UP or Vidharbha or Gurkha land ( which BJP promised) or Jammu or Ladakh or Bodoland. Let BJP have courage to say they will do at least some of these states in their election manifesto and see the reation? Will NM support Saurastra? There is a demand for that all and small states are being good should we not accept that.

Jaswant Singh was asked by Gorkhaland Janmukti Morcha to contest from Darjeeling in 2009 and he won. He represents Darjeeling constituency in the current LS.

This in the hope that BJP would win the GE in 2009 and bring about Grorkhland like the bifurcation of UP, Bihar, and MP done by Vajpayee before. It is another matter that this gamble did not work out.

Hence BJP support for bifuration of states is not limited to AP alone.

[SandeepA]

Why BJP is very upset with Sushma Swaraj

BJP sources said their party has consistently maintained that while it is committed to the formation of a separate state of Telangana, it also wanted the concerns of the Seema-Andhra region to be adequately addressed. Oddly enough, Sushma Swaraj did not press this issue in the Lok Sabha on Tuesday.

“Sushma Swaraj has effectively spoilt Modi’s party in Andhra Pradesh,” remarked a senior BJP leader. A section in the party was quick to point fingers at Swaraj for deliberately queering the pitch for Modi

[RajeshA]

If I may say so, I think, that Seemandhra people would now be making a brand new start. They will be building a new capital, upgrading their ports, forming an industrial corridor, and monetarily speaking, the Seemandhra money would now be used in Seemandhra, and not be invested any more inland in Hyderabad or elsewhere in landlocked Telangana.

Those states which are on the coast, have a bigger chance of hitting it big. I am sure Seemandhra would be next Gujarat, and then a developed economy.

It is Telengana people who would feel jealous of Seemandhra in the coming years.

One condition is that Seemandhra gets its due share of fresh water.

[SandeepA]

If I may say so, I think, that Seemandhra people would now be making a brand new start. They will be building a new capital, upgrading their ports, forming an industrial corridor, and monetarily speaking, the Seemandhra money would now be used in Seemandhra, and not be invested any more inland in Hyderabad or elsewhere in landlocked Telangana.

Where is a promise of the money to fund this in the bill? It would have been an equitable bifurcation if this was in place and our only hope was that this can happen in NaMo's watch.

[KSKumar]

What annoys me most is that people seem to be not too bothered about the emotional detachment of people of two regions speaking same language, but quarrel over division of assets. So, as I understand it both agree to divide the the state, but disagree about who should get what assets and resources. Basically this boils down to a fight between powerful politicos and rich men and they are twisting things according to their interest. In this melee all these crooks are forgetting that there is a country called India and its interests are paramount. As an Indian, why the f&#k should I care who will be better off grabbing Hyderabad in their kitty, if ultimately it is to the detriment of my country.

Yes, I will continue to sit on my high horse and condescend, because that is the least I can do against the chu#%yappa going on in the name of division of Andhra. With no disrespect to Laloo or Biharis, even they behaved in a much more respectful way, when Bihar was divided. At that time Advani was HM (betenoire of Laloo) Bihar lost most of its natural resources..by behaving in such cantankerous ways, Telugu people are making division of any other state that much more difficult.

It is high time India shows Telugus their place in the country

Why are you getting your panties in a twist?

You want to shaft us for what? For trying to fight for our rights as Indians, is it?

People like you, Vina, RoyG are better Indians than us.

We never wanted to shaft anyone. You guys do. So does the Congress and the BJP.

Great Indics all.

So, what are Telugu people doing claiming themselves to be Indians?

Please lobby and get us thrown out of the country.

That will teach us.

[abhik]

--wrong thread, deleted--

[RajeshA]

If I may say so, I think, that Seemandhra people would now be making a brand new start. They will be building a new capital, upgrading their ports, forming an industrial corridor, and monetarily speaking, the Seemandhra money would now be used in Seemandhra, and not be invested any more inland in Hyderabad or elsewhere in landlocked Telangana.

Where is a promise of the money to fund this in the bill? It would have been an equitable bifurcation if this was in place and our only hope was that this can happen in NaMo's watch.

Public-Private-People Partnership?

BJP has wanted to incorporate this package in the AP Reorganization Bill. If it does not find itself there, NDA can still try to put up a Special package for Seemandhra once it comes to power, considering it a part of its assurances to the state.

[KSKumar]

We can argue on principle of small states which is a big joke when you do not support division of UP or Vidharbha or Gurkha land ( which BJP promised) or Jammu or Ladakh or Bodoland. Let BJP have courage to say they will do at least some of these states in their election manifesto and see the reation? Will NM support Saurastra? There is a demand for that all and small states are being good should we not accept that.

Jaswant Singh was asked by Gorkhaland Janmukti Morcha to contest from Darjeeling in 2009 and he won. He represents Darjeeling constituency in the current LS.

This in the hope that BJP would win the GE in 2009 and bring about Grorkhland like the bifurcation of UP, Bihar, and MP done by Vajpayee before. It is another matter that this gamble did not work out.

Hence BJP support for bifuration of states is not limited to AP alone.

So, will UP be divided? The assembly has already passed a resolution, presumably the people of UP want it.

So, why does NaMo not raise it at all?

[Shanmukh]

I empathise with those who feel hard done by the split. what baffles me is why modi is being blamed for it ?

could someone please explain what they realistically expected bjp/modi to do ?
only thing I can come up with is they could have abstained from voting by saying 'while are not necessarily against split we oppose it in the current form'. but even then the bill would have been passed.

Rahul M-ji,
My great takleef with the whole affair is the way the BJP has conducted itself, giving the impression that it is the B-Team of the Congress in everything. My greater takleef is about the lost opportunity in SeemaAndhra, a place that has been hard for the BJP to get into. My greatest takleef is the way the BJP raised expectations of the people of SeemaAndhra and then doused them brutally. The last, IMO, is worse than a crime. It is a pointlessly cruel blunder. Let me explain all my three takleefs.

My great takleef:
A few days ago, when I questioned why the BJP had to vote against the introduction - the introduction, mark you, not the promulgation - of the JLP bill (which has gained considerable anti-corruption hype) alongside the mother of all corruption in India, the Congress, I was reminded by many forum members of the Constitutional proprieties that the BJP was duty bound to adhere to. The BJP could have just walked out of the House, pinning Kejriwal to governing Delhi (a task he was wholly unsuited to), but Constitutional proprieties foreclosed that option for the BJP. However, today, on a matter of far greater national importance, no Constitutional proprieties prevented BJP from acquiescing to kicking the SeemaAndhra people after switching cameras off, and passing the Bill in the dark without even a debate. Today, Constitutional proprieties demanded that SeemaAndhra did not deserve a hearing and BJP could go along with any iniquity perpetrated by the Congress against SeemaAndhra, in pursuit of the Congress' narrow political objectives. Is this hypocrisy or what?

My greater takleef:
The BJP has shot itself in the foot in both regions. In Telangana, it is a camp follower, it has no glory. So what if it supported the Telangana interests? The glory for getting Telangana and/or protecting Telangana interests accrues to Congress and TRS. In SeemaAndhra, BJP is classed alongside the betrayer of the SeemaAndhra, Congress. The BJP has earned a lot of blame, and no credit whatsoever. The BJP had a chance to do the correct thing by the SeemaAndhra folks AND gain its own political objectives in the region (in politics, it is rare to get a morally correct stance that coincides with your political objectives). BJP promised to create Telangana, but never screw SeemaAndhra. By refusing to go along with the Congress screwing of SeemaAndhra, and ensuring better terms for SeemaAndhra in this messy divorce, the BJP could have implemented the new Telangana state on its terms, and dictate the agenda. But it chose to destroy its chances.

A lot of folks here are positing that the BJP will grow in Telangana at the expense of the TDP. Oh really? What is the BJP's sales pitch in the region? How is the BJP going to grow at the expense of the TDP here? Kishan Reddy has been focussing on Telangana, to the complete exclusion of SeemaAndhra, for the last 10 years, and he still cannot get even 10% of the vote in the entire region (and BJP has had more than 10% votes in the region in the past). The BJP does not even exist today in most of rural Telangana. The idea that the far more powerful TDP will be wiped out to benefit the much weaker BJP is laughable. Even more problematic is the idea that the TDP's mostly BC voters will find the Reddy-Velama dominated BJP leadership of Telangana attractive. Forget taking the TDP BC voters, the BJP is unlikely to be able to take even the TDP's Reddy voters. The first real test for the BJP is going to be if Kishan Reddy can negotiate the Reddy politics of Nalagonda. Last time over, the great Kishan Reddy managed to get the BJP a grand total of just over 20K votes in Nalagonda (after five years of focus on Telangana). And if Kishan Reddy cannot manage Nalagonda, the idea that he can handle the BC politics of Warangal or the Kamma fights of Khammam are even more ridiculous. Simply put, the TDP-Communist alliance in Telangana will be the real opposition to the TRS and Congress (if the merger of the two happens). Otherwise, it will be a three way fight. In fourth place will be MIM, BJP and Lok Satta Party can fight it out for the fifth and sixth places. All this is the result of the great enterprising sagacity shown by the BJP in shooting itself in the foot. Brutally put, the incompetence of the current leadership of the BJP in Telangana will ensure that the BJP will, at best, be a marginal player for the foreseeable future.

The politics of SeemaAndhra are more and more dominated by business turned politico folks. As long as the BJP does not have a handle into these, the BJP will never amount to much in SeemaAndhra. And it is here that the BJP has lost a huge opportunity. All the businessmen associated with the Congress are looking for new homes, because the Congress has blackened its name so much that it is impossible for the businessmen inside Congress to contest once more on the Congress tickets. And here, the BJP has lost a huge opportunity. Unless you want to argue like `Zero Loss' Sibal, lost opportunity is a huge loss. If the BJP had defended SeemaAndhra, it would have gained the glory of `Defender of Andhra'. And this glory would not have been shared with the single digit SeemaAndhra parties, because all the mobilisation and fighting in Parliament would have been done by the BJP, rather than the TDP or the YCP. And the sentiment and aura, of `Defender of SeemaAndhra' would have stood the BJP in good stead in SeemaAndhra. The BJP could have had its pick of uprooted Congressmen (all Congressmen of SeemaAndhra, by the way) to choose in every district. If the BJP had gone aggressively picking the heavyweights, it would have garnered from every social base except converted Christians). Those who were willing to join with the BJP included some real heavyweights (to my knowledge, Rayapati Sambasiva Rao, Daggubati Purandareshwari and her husband, Prabhakara Rao (of Nuzhividu seeds), and Sabbam Hari). With the present Modi wave in the country, the visibility of these in fighting for SeemaAndhra, and their own personal votebanks, the BJP could have won about 2-3 MP seats on its own (without any TDP - and I am, personally, against a TDP alliance), and in the rest of the state, it would have had an impressive voteshare (my guess would be around 15%), almost uniformly spread in SeemaAndhra. Also, for the first time, the BJP would have penetrated a state that has traditionally been hard for it to get into, and the BJP, in the next five years, could have developed a strong cadre, and foreclosed the chances of the Congress returning, except by merging Jagan. By throwing away the chance, the BJP has squandered a huge opportunity. In sheer growth terms, the BJP had far more potential in SeemaAndhra under a Purandareshwari or Prabhakara Rao, than the BJP will ever have under Kishan Reddy, who has trouble winning his own seat in face of a strong Congress candidate. Also, from my own experiences, a ground level BJP cadre is the first line of defence against EJ penetration. Simply put, where BJP cadre is strong, EJs are weak. And SeemaAndhra is in real danger of becoming a no-go zone for the BJP (a 20% Christian vote is sufficient to finish off the BJP chances in realistic terms. It is around 10-12% in SeemaAndhra now. Goa is an exception, for reasons I won't go into here.)

To make matters worse, they have strengthened the MIM in Telangana (in relative terms, winning 10 seats out of 294 is less impressive than winning 10 seats out of 119) and the EJ dominated Jagan in SeemaAndhra. Both of them hurt the Indics more.

Moral of the story - if you are a lapdog of the Congress, you are not going to get more than the table scraps that the Congress president throws you.

My greatest takleef:
The way the BJP raised hopes that it would fight for the interests of the SeemaAndhra folks (see the statements of Advani, Javadekar, and Venkaiah Naidu just a few days ago) and then doused them brutally, away from the cameras, is unforgivable. It is like leading someone who trusts you into a dark alley and then hand him over to muggers. There was no need to do it if they intended to screw SeemaAndhra all along. They could have said so, and it would have been less cruel. But to pretend to defend SeemaAndhra interests, and then betray them at the last second is pointless, insensate, wanton cruelty. C'est pire qu'un crime, c'est une faute.

Que faire? C'est la vie!

[Sagar G]

If I may say so, I think, that Seemandhra people would now be making a brand new start. They will be building a new capital, upgrading their ports, forming an industrial corridor, and monetarily speaking, the Seemandhra money would now be used in Seemandhra, and not be invested any more inland in Hyderabad or elsewhere in landlocked Telangana.

Those states which are on the coast, have a bigger chance of hitting it big. I am sure Seemandhra would be next Gujarat, and then a developed economy.

It is Telengana people who would feel jealous of Seemandhra in the coming years.

One condition is that Seemandhra gets its due share of fresh water.

Listen to this guy you all.

Why are people so scared of starting from scratch ??? It's not like people from Seemandhra who will wake up tommorrow will find themselves on ex-planet pluto !!!! You have a effing coastline to boot, you get it A COASTLINE !!!!! Do you guys have any idea how much economic benefits that can bring. Stop being sissies (OK be one for a few days but get over it soon) and use this opportunity to rebuild yourselves minus the warts in the previous state. This is a good opportunity for people from both the regions. The "division" is over a bloody map, another country hasn't been created and the people in Seemaandhra told to go take a hike.

What's up with the ridiculous line of showing telegus their place ???? Why are people going overboard with emotions ??? I say it again the division exists on a bloody map people from both the regions are free to move in and around both the regions or the rest of the country as they wish. So stop pissing over each other and fighting over nothing.

[Sagar G]

My greatest takleef:
The way the BJP raised hopes that it would fight for the interests of the SeemaAndhra folks (see the statements of Advani, Javadekar, and Venkaiah Naidu just a few days ago) and then doused them brutally, away from the cameras, is unforgivable. It is like leading someone who trusts you into a dark alley and then hand him over to muggers. There was no need to do it if they intended to screw SeemaAndhra all along. They could have said so, and it would have been less cruel. But to pretend to defend SeemaAndhra interests, and then betray them at the last second is pointless, insensate, wanton cruelty. C'est pire un crime, c'est un faute.

Is the world coming to an end and only a few hours remaining that people from Seemandhra won't be able to enjoy their lives as people from Telengana ??? Isn't the formation of the states still under process ???

Tell me the point of time when BJP became the sole entity of hope for people in Seemaandhra. It's quite hard to believe for me that a state where BJP has no presence will pin it's hope on it.

[chaanakya]

Language as a basis for division of state and the factor that unites people have long been disproved and/or abandoned. MP, UP and Bihar was divided though they had same linguistic background or at least majority of them had. The idea propounded then was that smaller states are better governed. There is no way to disprove or prove this assumption without having sufficiently long history, it is obvious that division provided energy to the local administration to improve things in the short or long run.

BJP had been long a proponent of Smaller states and was the first to divide the states on non linguistic basis.They were already supportive of T state, though amicably. Therefore , those who wanted BJP to oppose division were having false hope. BJP had , anyhow, no political stake in either united or divided AP. Those, who argue that BJP would have made inroads into AP , are selling fake dreams. The history of AP elections does not inspire confidence in their assertions. Let them prove me wrong in the upcoming elections and may be something better would emerge for them then what they might get in status quo.

However , I firmly believe that division would spur the growth in both regions as telugu people are enterprising sans politicians.

May be there is a time to move on.

[KSKumar]

If I may say so, I think, that Seemandhra people would now be making a brand new start. They will be building a new capital, upgrading their ports, forming an industrial corridor, and monetarily speaking, the Seemandhra money would now be used in Seemandhra, and not be invested any more inland in Hyderabad or elsewhere in landlocked Telangana.

Those states which are on the coast, have a bigger chance of hitting it big. I am sure Seemandhra would be next Gujarat, and then a developed economy.

It is Telengana people who would feel jealous of Seemandhra in the coming years.

One condition is that Seemandhra gets its due share of fresh water.

Listen to this guy you all.

Why are people so scared of starting from scratch ??? It's not like people from Seemandhra who will wake up tommorrow will find themselves on ex-planet pluto !!!! You have a effing coastline to boot, you get it A COASTLINE !!!!! Do you guys have any idea how much economic benefits that can bring. Stop being sissies (OK be one for a few days but get over it soon) and use this opportunity to rebuild yourselves minus the warts in the previous state. This is a good opportunity for people from both the regions. The "division" is over a bloody map, another country hasn't been created and the people in Seemaandhra told to go take a hike.

What's up with the ridiculous line of showing telegus their place ???? Why are people going overboard with emotions ??? I say it again the division exists on a bloody map people from both the regions are free to move in and around both the regions or the rest of the country as they wish. So stop pissing over each other and fighting over nothing.

Because the effing point is, both Congress and BJP endorsed the fanatic telenganite propaganda of Seemandhra folks being cheaters, looters and worse. No one, not even NaMo stood up and said, the state is not being divided because Telengana has been cheated.

That's the effing point.

It is effing galling that all the great analysts on this forum have no clue about the genesis of the fake dispute between some feudal telenganites/naxals and Seemandhra folks (mainly businessmen, professionals and employees).

Of course, being all great Indics, an understanding of the issue is not required.

[SanjayC]

Yes, I will continue to sit on my high horse and condescend, because that is the least I can do against the chu#%yappa going on in the name of division of Andhra. With no disrespect to Laloo or Biharis, even they behaved in a much more respectful way, when Bihar was divided. At that time Advani was HM (betenoire of Laloo) Bihar lost most of its natural resources..by behaving in such cantankerous ways, Telugu people are making division of any other state that much more difficult. It is high time India shows Telugus their place in the country

The problem is over-emotionalism -- the same thing which makes Tamils and Telugus set themselves on fire or consume poison if a political leader or film star kicks the bucket. They are unable to think rationally and with a cool head. That is how now BJP keeps getting abused when it is not in power in the center for decades and in the state it has zero presence. Notice that hardly a word of abuse has been said about Cong or Sonia on this board by the "hurt" Telugus.

[Hari Seldon]

nageshks avare,

Pranaams, sir. Thanks for saying it so eloquently in your post above. Thank you.