Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 06 Feb 2014 16:09

the JF-17 lineage to F7 has been talked about before in aviation circles, its a natural evolution of sorts

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 06 Feb 2014 16:25

no, this thread is for discussing pak, not India.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 11 Feb 2014 11:28

Thunder Resonates as Modernization Inches Forward in Pakistan

Brando · Post by **Brando** » 11 Feb 2014 15:11

^^ Fascinating article.

It would appear that the threat of J-10Bs operating on both sides of India is contingent on India's MMRCA order and acquisition of the Rafale though even then the PAF will be both outgunned and outnumbered even with their new J10s. The Pak doctrine has always been reactionary but it is a bit amusing to see them pursue such an obvious and short sighted tit for tat policy vis a vis India and not one that takes into account their own operational and strategic imperatives.

The possibility of Pakistan operating Chinese stealth aircraft sometime in the future is also being toyed with apparently so someday we might see at least a squadron or two of the J-31 or similar type of Chinese "export" oriented quasi-5th gen aircraft. Given the mercurial nature of US-Pakistani relations India should not discount the possibility that the Americans might even sell the F35 to the Pakistanis 20 or 30 years down the line should relations between the two improve significantly while India's relations either deteriorate or remain status quo.

Kailash · Post by **Kailash** » 11 Feb 2014 15:51

Pakistan likely to buy S20 submarines from China

A senior Pakistani official recently told the UK's Jane's Defence Weekly that the country is likely to purchase six submarines from China.

The official said the deal will be completed soon and an agreement is expected to be signed by both parties by the end of the year.

The Sina news web portal also cited a Pakistani official who said Islamabad and Beijing had settled the details for the arms sales and only the payment issue needed to be finalized.

The Pakistani source revealed that the S20 diesel-electric submarines, an improved model of the People's Liberation Army's Yuan-class submarines, may be the model that Pakistan will buy because China has actively promoted the model in the global market.

The S20 was developed based on the Type 039 submarine, which is referred to as Yuan class by the North Atlantic Treaty Organization and which measures 66 meters in length, 8m in beam and 8.2m in draft.

The surface displacement of the submarine is 1,850 tonnes and its submerged displacement is 2,300 tonnes, with a maximum speed of 18 knots. It can reach 8,000 nautical miles at 16 knots and it can carry 38 crew members in total for 60 days.

It uses a double hulled structure and its maximum dive depth is 300m.

Selling diesel-electric submarines to Pakistan will further consolidate China's role as a supplier for the country’s weapons and military equipment and enhance the Pakistan Navy's combat capability.

At present, the Pakistan Navy has five aging submarines bought from France — three Agosta 90B-class submarines purchased in the 1990s and two Agosta 70-class submarines, bought in the late 1970s.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 11 Feb 2014 16:54

IMO, its only a matter of time before the Pakis get the Chinese stealth fighters and/or F-35 so we need to prepare for that now. That means not dropping FGFA or it we are dropping it them fund AMCA to the fullest.

And fund anti-stealth capabilities on the wide-body future AEW&C (follow on to the EMB based AEW&C).

member_20453 · Post by **member_20453** » 11 Feb 2014 17:39

merlin wrote:IMO, its only a matter of time before the Pakis get the Chinese stealth fighters and/or F-35 so we need to prepare for that now. That means not dropping FGFA or it we are dropping it them fund AMCA to the fullest.

And fund anti-stealth capabilities on the wide-body future AEW&C (follow on to the EMB based AEW&C).

Chinese fighters sure but F-35 nah, Unkil hardly has money funding its own needs, I doubt they'll freely give away the F-35 to anyone.

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 11 Feb 2014 18:03

We can play all we want with the block 52s when they land up in IAF after PAK break up. Sort of how the Luftwaffe got mig-29s. Bandars can be sold for scrap.

Brando · Post by **Brando** » 11 Feb 2014 21:40

I don't think there is anything more frightening than a PAK break-up considering the number of nutters and nukes out there that would simply be "lost" after such a breakup. The Americans will do everything they can to prevent it, just to prevent the nukes from getting into terrorist hands.

PAK is like the deranged suicide bomber with a dead-man's switch - we let them die and they are going to take a lot of people with them.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 20 Feb 2014 12:52

PAF buys 1 squadron of used F-16A/Bs from Jordan..

PAF acquires F-16s from Jordan

ISLAMABAD: The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has acquired one squadron of F-16 multi-role fighter aircraft from Jordan and 13 F-16s will be inducted into the service next month.

With this, the strength of PAF F-16s will reach 76. The fighter aircraft have been purchased from Jordan and they were in the use of the Royal Jordanian Air Force (RJAF).

The deal has already been finalised and inked by both the countries. The 13 aircraft are of F-16 A/B Block-15 and the PAF has similar aircraft in its fleet which are flying satisfactorily. The deal about 12 A models and one B model aircraft has been authenticated by the manufacturing company and the US government has also given its nod for the sale/purchase of the planes.

Well-placed defence sources told The News here the other day that the purchased aircraft were in good condition since they had attained Mid-Life Update (MLU) and they would be providing service for another 20 years with almost 3,000 hours on average available to them for flying.

They have been modified into Air Defence Fighters (ADF) versions. The Ogden Air Logistics Centre performed structural upgrades to extend the aircraft life from the designed 4,000 to 8,000 hours flying time as part of the programme. They also modified the aircraft engine bay for the upgraded Pratt and Whitney F100-220E engine. The induction of the planes will give a boost in air power to the PAF that is rendering a remarkable service in the war against terror.

The Chief of the Air Staff (CAS), Air Chief Marshal Tahir Rafiq Butt, visited Jordan last year for pursuing the sale of the aircraft. He and officials concerned of the countries had hectic discussion about the sale/purchase and delivery deal.

The sources have declined to give the details of the amount involved in the deal but they have claimed that it has been transparent and it would be made public next month just before the delivery of the F-16s.

However, it is understood that the used planes are cost-effective and could provide service for a fairly longer period of time. Pakistan is also contemplating to acquire more used planes for the PAF from some other countries while the induction of JF-17 Thunder aircraft, co-production of Pakistan and China, e is also underway simultaneously, the sources said.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 20 Feb 2014 14:02

^^^ unkil ki mehrbani to facilitate inter-munna love
although paquis will spin it as four_father_love

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 20 Feb 2014 15:00

if the radars were upgraded in MLU these should be compatible with amraam and aim9x and a2G handouts. and those older models had the best agility in ACM. will likely be used for air defence role, freeing up all the Block52 Solah's as the DPSA weapon of choice.

there must be plenty of Mig29 in RuAF inventory. we should look at getting them changed to 29UPG std and adding another 50 while the never ending Muharram over Tejas and Rafale draws to its close.

a huge number of IAF airframes (bisons, jags, mig27s) is heading for block retirement. no way any of these will serve beyond 2020 or remain relevant.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 20 Feb 2014 15:34

for avionics main features look like new modular mission computer and APG66 - which is Aim-120 compatible
not sure if that makes it close to a C variant, suspect it is 75-80% close to a C in air-air mode

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 20 Feb 2014 16:03

Singha wrote:if the radars were upgraded in MLU these should be compatible with amraam and aim9x and a2G handouts. and those older models had the best agility in ACM. will likely be used for air defence role, freeing up all the Block52 Solah's as the DPSA weapon of choice.

there must be plenty of Mig29 in RuAF inventory. we should look at getting them changed to 29UPG std and adding another 50 while the never ending Muharram over Tejas and Rafale draws to its close.

a huge number of IAF airframes (bisons, jags, mig27s) is heading for block retirement. no way any of these will serve beyond 2020 or remain relevant.

nope, no avionics upgrade was carried out on these jets..simply a structural upgrade to the Block 15 F-16 variant for service life extension.

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 20 Feb 2014 16:21

Singha wrote: there must be plenty of Mig29 in RuAF inventory. we should look at getting them changed to 29UPG std and adding another 50 while the never ending Muharram over Tejas and Rafale draws to its close.

We were

to buy even upgraded Mirages from a bankrupt Greece

But a smart move from Pakis though. Unlike our generals, theirs seems to be much more grounded and pragmatic.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 20 Feb 2014 17:18

Singha wrote:if the radars were upgraded in MLU these should be compatible with amraam and aim9x and a2G handouts. and those older models had the best agility in ACM. will likely be used for air defence role, freeing up all the Block52 Solah's as the DPSA weapon of choice.

there must be plenty of Mig29 in RuAF inventory. we should look at getting them changed to 29UPG std and adding another 50 while the never ending Muharram over Tejas and Rafale draws to its close.

a huge number of IAF airframes (bisons, jags, mig27s) is heading for block retirement. no way any of these will serve beyond 2020 or remain relevant.

If we can get Soviet-era inventory MiG29 upgraded to current IAF upgraded standard cheaply it might be the best option to increase numbers and slow the squadron number reduction.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 20 Feb 2014 19:50

Now the PAf is very serious force, it will be difficult for IAf to get dominance, and take out Paki missile launchers which is vital for us. I think this will make Pakistan more confident to use Terror assets agianst India.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 20 Feb 2014 20:11

An LCA MKI will take care of these F-16s.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 21 Feb 2014 02:55

More on the Paki F-16 deal with Uncle Sam's blessings.So much for our strategic fartner.

https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/51 ... 16s-02396/

Billions to Upgrade and Up-arm Pakistan’s F-16s
Feb 20, 2014 16:43 UTC by Defense Industry Daily staff

RJAF F-16A/B Block 15OCUs

Jordanian F-16A/B ADFs

Pakistan buying 13 F-16s from Jordan – where does that leave the respective fleets?; Article reformatted & background updated; Photos added; Additional Readings updated & upgraded.

Feb 19/14: +13 Jordanian. Pakistani media report that the government has inked a deal with Jordan for 12 used F-16As and 1 F-16B:

“With this, the strength of PAF F-16s will reach 76…. The deal… has been authenticated by the manufacturing company and the US government has also given its nod for the sale/purchase of the planes. Well-placed defence sources told The News here the other day that the purchased aircraft were in good condition…. have been modified into Air Defence Fighters (ADF) versions. The Ogden Air Logistics Centre performed structural upgrades to extend the aircraft life from the designed 4,000 to 8,000 hours flying time as part of the programme. They also modified the aircraft engine bay for the upgraded Pratt and Whitney F100-220E engine”

The RJAF does fly F-16 MLUs bought second-hand from Belgium and the Netherlands, but this set being sold is from the 33-plane Peace Falcon I/II purchases of F-16 ADFs in 1997 and 2003. The F-16 ADF variant is actually the F-16 Block 15OCU, which added the more reliable F100-PW-220 turbofan, structural strengthening, an enlarged HUD, and provisions for the radar-guided AIM-120 AMRAAM missile. F-16 ADFs retain the AN/APG-66 radar, which has been supplanted by APG-68 models in subsequent variants and in Pakistan’s upgraded fighters. ADFs have some precision ground attack capability using the AGM-65 Maverick missile, but would be well behind Pakistan’s 18 new Block 52s, or the PAF’s roughly 40 existing Block 15 fighters that were upgraded to a similar standard under the programs above.

Barring upgrades, the best use for F-16 ADFs is as interceptor and air superiority fighters. Recall, however, that the DSCA request for MLU & Falcon STAR kits had a maximum of 60 aircraft, and that these kits wouldn’t be needed for the new F-16C/D Block 52s. Pakistan could order 13 more upgrade kits for these aircraft, and still be within its allotted FMS total.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 21 Feb 2014 05:24

I hate the complacency from Indians, we need to dominate a war not a close cricket match or winning on points, notice how Operation Parakram is major victory for Pakis in the eyes of Pakis and many Indians.

Americans or Isrealis never say our IDF will smash S-300's or let Iran acquire the best they can from the Russians, knowing fully well they would be able to tackle the threat.

Whether it is Libya, Former Yugoslavia or Iraq, Americans sanction a country and make sure the miltary is in disarray before they move in.

Given their over whelming numbers and cutting edge technology, they could always afford for these nations to arm themveles and still fight an unfair contest, but they never take risk and have the killer instinct.

Indians suffer from complacency until it is too late.

Pakis are arming themselves like no tomorrow while we are dilly dallying. Ideal we should take PAF and PN from a war within 6 hours for us to have any meaningful results with the Pakistanis.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 21 Feb 2014 06:45

for this aman ki tamasha has to be soundly flushed down the toilet with a packet of dranex chasing it all the way into septic tank.

no way a congi or turd front regime will buy into it. but they might atleast grudgingly retain cashmere.
AAP will *run* to hand it over at the first opportunity.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 21 Feb 2014 14:37

Here are all the sources for this F-16 news from Google

I have quotes from all of them. ALL, and I mean ALL of them simply quote TheNews of Pakistan which first reported the story 2 days ago. Either the wordings are the same, or they quote TheNews.com.pk as source. There is no independent corroboration of the news from anyone - and certainly not a reputable aviation news source.

The story may be a bluff. Need independent confirmation

1. http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-1 ... rom-Jordan

The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has acquired one squadron of F-16 multi-role fighter aircraft from Jordan and 13 F-16s will be inducted into the service next month.

With this, the strength of PAF F-16s will reach 76. The fighter aircraft have been purchased from Jordan and they were in the use of the Royal Jordanian Air Force (RJAF).

The deal has already been finalised and inked by both the countries. The 13 aircraft are of F-16 A/B Block-15 and the PAF has similar aircraft in its fleet which are flying satisfactorily.

2. http://en.ammonnews.net/article.aspx?ar ... wcaRJiwdow

The deal has already been finalized and inked by both the countries. The 13 aircraft are of F-16 A/B Block-15 and the PAF has similar aircraft in its fleet which are flying satisfactorily.

3.http://www.f-16.net/f-16-news-article4835.html

With the addition of these new airframes (12 A models and one B model aircraft) the PAF will reach 76 F-16s in service. Lockheed Martin and the US government has also given its nod for the sale/purchase of the planes.

4. http://idrw.org/?p=33794#more-33794

p>The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has acquired one squadron of F-16 multi-role fighter aircraft from Jordan and 13 F-16s will be inducted into the service next month.

With this, the strength of PAF F-16s will reach 76. The fighter aircraft have been purchased from Jordan and they were in the use of the Royal Jordanian Air Force (RJAF).

The deal has already been finalised and inked by both the countries. The 13 aircraft are of F-16 A/B Block-15 and the PAF has similar aircraft in its fleet which are flying satisfactorily. The deal about 12 A models and one B model aircraft has been authenticated by the manufacturing company and the US government has also given its nod for the sale/purchase of the planes.

5. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3124959/posts

The Pakistani Air Force (PAF) has acquired a squadron of F-16 multi-role fighter aircraft from Jordan. The early production Block-15 fighter jets will be inducted inducted into the service in March 2014, next month, Pakistan’s TheNews reports.

6.http://thepeninsulaqatar.com/news/pakis ... age-ravine

With this, the strength of PAF F-16s will reach 76. The fighter aircraft have been purchased from Jordan and they were in the use of the Royal Jordanian Air Force (RJAF).

The deal has already been finalised and inked by both the countries. The 13 aircraft are of F-16 A/B Block-15 and the PAF has similar aircraft in its fleet which are flying satisfactorily. The deal about 12 A models and one B model aircraft has been authenticated by the manufacturing company and the US government has also given its nod for the sale/purchase of the planes.

nirav · Post by **nirav** » 22 Feb 2014 20:02

Would be interesting to know the cost of the buy.

Speaks a lot about the capability or lack thereof of the 15 to 20 Million a pop Bandar.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 22 Feb 2014 21:22

Cost was like bankrolled by goat anti terror funds, or the saudis.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 22 Feb 2014 23:55

it frees up jordan to buy something else, or take the pressure off their exchequer

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 24 Feb 2014 21:46

Shiv, Alan Warnes on Twitter is saying the news is true and the overall number is 17.
https://twitter.com/warnesyworld

Warnes as you'd know is the pak-pasand journalist who keeps visiting Pak, has contacts with the PAF and who used to be editor of AFM, sucking upto PAF at every opportunity. All this ensured "healthy sales" amongst expat Pakis in UK etc who'd buy the mag and believe PAF is the best AF in the world ma'shallah as Warnes ran glowing reports on beat up Mirages etc even as other pages in the glossy ran advertorials on far modern types. Incidentally, he even rubbed the IAF off the wrong way as I recall, when he ran a one sided puff piece on the IAF-PAF matchup during 2001.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 24 Feb 2014 21:52

Singha wrote:Cost was like bankrolled by goat anti terror funds, or the saudis.

Pak fora are abuzz with speculation saying its the saudis. The more enteprising are even tabulating the prices of the village goats and other essentials which the Saudis should pay for, and how many F-16s they would be worth.

After giving up their wildlife to sheikhs etc, its now land.
http://southasiainvestor.blogspot.in/20 ... -farm.html

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 24 Feb 2014 21:56

Karan M wrote:Shiv, Alan Warnes on Twitter is saying the news is true and the overall number is 17.
https://twitter.com/warnesyworld

karan - Warnes does not say that it is true. He has simply retweeted a quote from the original source (News.pk) posted by one Harry Boone.

Here are the two relevant messages

1. Harry Boone ‏@towersight Feb 20
Pakistan's AF acquired 13 F-16 A/B block-15 from Jordan Kingdom... WTF http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-1 ... rom-Jordan …

2. Alan Warnes ‏@warnesyworld Feb 20
@IT_Waiz_ard @towersight @sergeveldhuizen TAI upgraded 16 F-16As one F-16B of RJAF with MLU in 2005. Wd fit snugly into PAF F-16MLU fleet

Note that I have been Googling for this news every day and in fact the US has completed an exercise with Jordan and is baing its own F 16s in Jordan thus pissing the Russkies off. This is not a time when Jordan would be getting rid of leased f-16s - with what is happening in Syria. I would like to see these F 16s appear in Pakistan first.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 24 Feb 2014 22:27

Shiv, the second tweet appears to be the "new information" which Warnes is feeding out. Or alternatively, he could just be providing some more details of the original aircraft and not saying that they have been shipped.

"TAI upgraded 16 F-16As one F-16B of RJAF with MLU in 2005. Wd fit snugly into PAF F-16MLU fleet"...

Basically, 17 a/c vs the 13 a/c News.pk put out.

Many folks RT as a means to address a qn, and hence the (in)famous RT do not mean endorsement line which is heavily overused on twitter.

As you say, its not a ringing endorsement of the issue. Could be misinfo.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 25 Feb 2014 07:28

This is the PAF per FlightGlobal 2014.

These F-16s are a drop in a very large obsolete bucket. The F-7s are a joke against our MiG-29s, Mirages, Sukhois. Their Mirages all likely suffer 10x serviceability issues versus our older MiGs which we at least made in India and hence have a line of spares.

PAF

F-7 141
F-16A/C 37
JF-17 40 60+50* (50 are the ones on order)
Mirage IIIEP/OF/RP 69
Mirage 5EF/F/PA 90
Mirage IIIBE/D/DP 18
Mirage 5DPA 2
F-16B/D 27

Nor is the PLAAF all powerful. Its key airframes are the Su-27 class and J-10s, some 472 all told, and not all can be deployed against India. We can use MiG-21s to defend. They cant use J-7s to attack.

CHINA
PEOPLE’S LIBERATION ARMY AIR FORCE
Type Active Ordered
Combat aircraft
H-6 120
J-7 388
J-8 96
J-10 200
J-11/Su-27/30/35 272 24-48*
JH-7 72
Q-5 119

India
INDIA
INDIAN AIR FORCE
Type Active Ordered
Combat aircraft
Jaguar M/S 117
MiG-21 262
MiG-27 79
MiG-29 66
Mirage 2000H 44
Rafale 86*
Su-30MKI 162 92 (actually 184 in service out of 270 total)
Jaguar T 31
Mirage 2000TH 10

--

Net we can kick the PAF around and will find be able to defend ourselves against the PLAAF, until & unless the PLAAF pulls out all stops and commits all its frontline fleet against the IAF. In which case we will have to stop kicking around the PAF & focus against the PLAAF.

But you see from the above ORBAT how lopsided the PAF is. Their only real modern aircraft are the F-16s, and their JF-17s are their Bison equivalents. We take out their F-16s, their handful of AWACS & suddenly, life will become very very hard for the PAF. They are by todays standards, a firmly tier 2 AF, equipment wise. The Sauds, Israelis, Japan, SoKo, pretty much an arms length of AFs are ahead of them.

When a weaker AF takes on a stronger one, it needs more force multipliers - AEW & Tankers. PAF has some 8 AWACS on paper but in reality will have around 6 (if lucky).
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 8#p1565188
India has 3 in service, 2 on order (out of 3 ERJ-145) and 3 in negotiation (Israel).

In terms of tankers, India has 7 (6 in negotiation).

PAF is basically a medium weight fighter trying to take on a heavy weight. Its strategy is to land a few blows and then as usual either run away or refuse to engage (a la' 71 and Kargil) or count on international intervention.
But this time around, IAF has Flankers and can strike deep. So where exactly will PAF hide?

Their only hope is that PLAAF bails them out.

If India gets Rafale, situation for PAF moves from very bad to horrible.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 25 Feb 2014 07:32

BTW as far back as a decade ago a, PAF was struggling to keep Mirage pilots current. Old planes, poor serviceability, few spares. Today, PAF Chief says they are his key concern.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 25 Feb 2014 09:25

6 days after the story appeared in News.com.pk there is no mention of the Jordan F-16 purchase on the websites of Aviation Week, Flight International and Air Forces monthly.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 26 Feb 2014 07:14

From Jane's
http://www.janes.com/article/34610/paki ... nian-f-16s
Pakistan looking to buy Jordanian F-16s

The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) is "close to concluding a deal" for the purchase of up to 13 Lockheed Martin F-16 fighter aircraft currently flown by the Royal Jordanian Air Force, a senior Pakistani government official has told IHS Jane's

The official said the PAF has also made inquiries with at least two other countries to buy F-16s although he declined to name them.

PAF officials have previously told IHS Jane's they were keen to increase the size of Pakistan's F-16 fleet, which currently comprises 18 F-16C/D Block 50/52 versions and between 45 and 50 F-16A/B models purchased in the 1980s.

This is the first news item outside of the News.com.pk source and it sayd Pakistan is "close" to concluding a deal. Pakistan is close to a lot of things including Jannat - so lets see

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Feb 2014 07:18

belgium, portugal(?), denmark, norway, Egypt and netherlands are other potential sources of F-16. usa must also be having plenty of air national guard F-16 in reserve.
they could potentially put together another 100 F-16 MLU if funds are granted.

this will permit getting rid of the J-7 and Mirages completely and replacing with F-16 and JF-17...I think thats where they want to head.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 26 Feb 2014 16:55

Singha wrote:belgium, portugal(?), denmark, norway, Egypt and netherlands are other potential sources of F-16. usa must also be having plenty of air national guard F-16 in reserve.
they could potentially put together another 100 F-16 MLU if funds are granted.

this will permit getting rid of the J-7 and Mirages completely and replacing with F-16 and JF-17...I think thats where they want to head.

If that happens (and I think it will in the medium to long term) that is a whole another level of challenge. Dealing with so many F-16s will not be easy.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 26 Feb 2014 17:29

who'se going to pay for that?

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 26 Feb 2014 17:33

Saudi , There was recent report that Saudi has requested for 30 K Pak Troops for their country .may be some quid pro quo

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Feb 2014 18:17

most of these Euro F-solah's started out life as block5-20 and got a MLU at some point to get amraam and paveway. they are somewhere between block30-40 but below block50. so its certainly feasible to operate them as a fleet...funds and america willing. they would be similar to the paki older 32 F-16 that are MLUed now.

here is another interesting tidbit from wiki. these planes must be in storage now
Italian Air Force leased 30 F-16As and 4 F-16Bs from the USAF from 2001 until 2012

the four original EU operators alone total up some 500 airframes!!

Belgium's : 160

Denmark: 70

Netherland: 213 (108 MLUed)

Norway: 72 (all MLU)

--
if TSP can pull off a 'tactical coup' by getting some 150 of these 530 airframes, with a good weapons pkg and homogenization to a common MLU std, thats a whole new AF right there. remember how quickly and tactically they moved in snapping up 70 airframes Mirages from Libya to use as cannibalization reserve.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 26 Feb 2014 18:37

Lalmohan wrote:who'se going to pay for that?

Money is not going to be a problem. How much can the old ones cost? Uncle is anyway there for eating up upgradation costs. Assistance to fight terror, part n, anyone?

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 26 Feb 2014 18:39

only if pak is being prepared to fight iran by four fathers