Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

[Sridhar]

I will respond to the specific issues raised later. But let me nip one thing in the bud. There is this repeated claim, which started with Rohit Vats' post, that I based everything on one number (he was perhaps referring to just one post of mine amongst many, or did not see the others). Any perusal of my posts, now transferred to this thread will reveal that this is untrue. So let's at least drop that part. I have shared multiple pieces of analysis I did, and did it in real time (as in, I am not first conducting a bunch of analysis and only at the end of that process sharing my conclusions, but rather sharing as I go). There are multiple posts of mine, focusing on income, health and education, on literacy rates, and on gross and net enrollment. And this is just the beginning, not the end. I will continue the process of fact checking and continue sharing my conclusions. Rest assured that just as I have done already, if the data disprove my hypothesis, I will not shy away from sharing that. Perhaps people are more used to a situation where somebody first forms a conclusion and then uses the data to support that, hiding data that don't. That has never been my way, and will not be in this case either.

Again, please stop this claim that I have presented one number. That is simply not true, and a perusal of the last few pages of this thread will suffice to verify that.

[member_28397]

I will respond to the specific issues raised later. But let me nip one thing in the bud. There is this repeated claim, which started with Rohit Vats' post, that I based everything on one number (he was perhaps referring to just one post of mine amongst many, or did not see the others). Any perusal of my posts, now transferred to this thread will reveal that this is untrue. So let's at least drop that part. I have shared multiple pieces of analysis I did, and did it in real time (as in, I am not first conducting a bunch of analysis and only at the end of that process sharing my conclusions, but rather sharing as I go). There are multiple posts of mine, focusing on income, health and education, on literacy rates, and on gross and net enrollment. And this is just the beginning, not the end. I will continue the process of fact checking and continue sharing my conclusions. Rest assured that just as I have done already, if the data disprove my hypothesis, I will not shy away from sharing that. Perhaps people are more used to a situation where somebody first forms a conclusion and then uses the data to support that, hiding data that don't. That has never been my way, and will not be in this case either.

Again, please stop this claim that I have presented one number. That is simply not true, and a perusal of the last few pages of this thread will suffice to verify that.

Although I dont have high IQ but one thing I do get it, NaMo stands for India First.
NaMo's birdview is of civilization level and he has shown and he is working towards it. Rest of leaders in India are thinking just how to counter him using B, C plans(this includes all the data you are throwing here) everything becuase they know they will suffer the same as they suffered in Gujarat a whole Generation under BJP's rule. It will close their shops in India.
The data you are putting just doesnt ring any bells or raise any alarms, as once you get enough opportunities of empowerment and growth all the ducks fall in line.
Sometimes ego is the main reason which clouds your ability to think and reason or rationalize.

[Sridhar]

Arjun,

I disagree completely that it is ok to question credentials. Not just is it not ok on a forum like this, it is completely irrelevant to any discussion. The substance of the discussion is what matters. A good comment made by a complete rookie is worth a thousand times more than a bad point made by a so-called eminent expert.

At no place have I ever questioned the importance of economic growth. I challenge you to show me even one place where I have said anything to that effect.

Lastly, I am amazed that you continue with your below the belt comments even after explicit statements by more than one moderator. This latest one is one more in that series. You make two more assumptions from God knows where. One that I don't see the importance of economic growth, and second that I am somehow responsible for the current state of our economy. Please stop right here. It is not taking things anywhere.

My only suggestion would be to focus on issues. All this focus on who the person is, whether he is from an IIT and aced his JEE or not, what his degree is, what his credentials are, whether he is a business leader or not only detracts from the issues.

One more thing - this is my last response to you. After this, if you wish to still target me, please go ahead. It will not bother me, but it will add unnecessary noise to the thread.

[Suraj]

It is fair to question credentials

But that is not for you to decide, sorry. The question of credentials has the same taboo here as the question of identity. Your anonymity is protected here. So are your credentials. Newcomers, or for that matter oldies, aren't to be cross-examined as to their right to ask questions. No one here is accorded certificates on what they can talk about or cannot. What you instead gain or lose is a reputation as someone whose posts are worth reading or not. But that is entirely a question of the merit of ones own posts. The only acceptable form of exclusion is self-moderation, through one's own awareness that they may not know enough to post something good enough on a topic.

Anyone can ask questions, provided they do so in a civilized manner. When you make it personal by referring to the individual rather than the words, you lose right there; the person who repeatedly asks tough questions even at the cost of appearing to troll will receive more leniency than the person who instead attacks the individual.

Like I said, I may not agree with Sridhar and even think some of what he posted makes little sense, but I defend his ability to post it, because he's not breaking any rules to do so. He can choose to ignore or respond to posts that take apart his own arguments, or put him in perspective, like KLP Dubey's excellent rejoinder earlier. That is an individual poster's prerogative.

[Sri]

I will respond to the specific issues raised later. But let me nip one thing in the bud. There is this repeated claim, which started with Rohit Vats' post, that I based everything on one number (he was perhaps referring to just one post of mine amongst many, or did not see the others). Any perusal of my posts, now transferred to this thread will reveal that this is untrue. So let's at least drop that part. I have shared multiple pieces of analysis I did, and did it in real time (as in, I am not first conducting a bunch of analysis and only at the end of that process sharing my conclusions, but rather sharing as I go). There are multiple posts of mine, focusing on income, health and education, on literacy rates, and on gross and net enrollment. And this is just the beginning, not the end. I will continue the process of fact checking and continue sharing my conclusions. Rest assured that just as I have done already, if the data disprove my hypothesis, I will not shy away from sharing that. Perhaps people are more used to a situation where somebody first forms a conclusion and then uses the data to support that, hiding data that don't. That has never been my way, and will not be in this case either.

Again, please stop this claim that I have presented one number. That is simply not true, and a perusal of the last few pages of this thread will suffice to verify that.

Thanks Sridhar Guru. Please keep posting your analysis. Not everybody attaches your action to motives. Your posts on education triggered a good debate. It forced me to think and analyse more. I ended up agreeing with rest of the gang and this time logically... Thank you Sir.

[Sridhar]

Maharathi:

I am not here to change minds. I am only posting here, since this has been home for over 13 years now. I got into this forum because of my interest in the military and in our response to Pakistani aggression and to terrorism. Even though hardly anybody was posting on economy related issues and infrastructure related issues at the time, and the forum's focus was on military/strategic matters, I started posting on these topics (I still remember the very first Indian Roads thread, which was my first entry into such topics), and soon with high quality participation of a bunch of people, this forum became better than any other at the time in discussing these issues. It is in that spirit that I am posting on this issue here as well. The quality of discussion is higher than any other place I know.

If I wish to convert minds, I would have far more impact doing it differently - writing an OpEd, a book, even a series of blog posts. Of course, they would imply a different level of commitment and involvement as well. But I have over the years learnt that this forum is as good a place as one to can find to encounter a bunch of very smart participants who do not shy away from challenging and have tough questions. So it has become a habit to post stuff here (though for various reasons, I dropped out to be mostly a lurker albeit one who visited the forum every single day and a very occasional participant on the military forum for the last few years, particularly in threads related to military and space technologies).

Once again, there is nothing sinister about my posting on these threads and my current focus on Narendra Modi. It is just that it is an exciting time to talk about political issues in India, and the most likely outcome at this point seems to be that Narendra Modi will become the next PM of India. Hence the focus on him. If Rahul Gandhi were to be (God forbid) in that position, my focus would have likely been on him. Fact checking on claims related to Rahul Gandhi would perhaps be the most boring thing to do at this time, important as that may be in its own right. I will not deny my biases, but that is not the driving factor behind my posting here.

This is my last post on anything other than a substantive (i.e. topic related) issue.

[Arjun]

Like I said, I may not agree with Sridhar and even think some of what he posted makes little sense, but I defend his ability to post it, because he's not breaking any rules to do so.

I think my comment on 'credentials' may have been misunderstood by both you and Sridhar, so let me clarify. I am NOT in the least questioning his right to post his opinions...That is not a position that can be tolerated either on BR or outside - and I very much count myself as a liberal on all matters relating to freedom of expression.

I had made a passing comment on the AAP thread earlier - that I think it unlikely that someone who has never shown interest in the Economy threads in the past over a decade - is likely to have developed signficant expertise in the area suddenly before Elections. That is obviously not any kind of proof, and was NOT intended to be a QED by any means. That was a passing comment - and I am defending my right to express an observation just as much as I defend Sridhar's right to post on any thread he wishes to.

In any case- that bit is behind us & I have no intention of delving into that particular line of thinking again. So hopefully there's no more cycles expended on this.

At no place have I ever questioned the importance of economic growth. I challenge you to show me even one place where I have said anything to that effect.

Please see my post again - the term I have used is 'criticality' of economic growth. If you really thought growth is THE most critical piece in the economic agenda (as I do), that is the first metric you would choose to compare the candidates on. Instead all of your analysis has been on other parameters which you clearly believe to deserve more importance than growth.

[niran]

shoooo! go away, first ye all polute the thread with mine is bigger kinda posts
and now when an AdM pulls his danda ye all start poluting with weepy touchy feely posts
go display biraderly loube in private.

[member_20317]

weh! man I was waiting somebody would do that.

Arjun ji this is your thread and you are begining to behave like Justice Ornob and Deepak Chaurasiya.

[Vipin_Upadhyay]

It's about time the thread topic is changed to India 272+ -- Vote for India

The first step towards realization of The Idea of India through NaMo vision is by making sure that India 272+ becomes a reality!

[Suraj]

I think it unlikely that someone who has never shown interest in the Economy threads in the past over a decade - is likely to have developed signficant expertise in the area suddenly before Elections. That is obviously not any kind of proof, and was NOT intended to be a QED by any means. That was a passing comment - and I am defending my right to express an observation just as much as I defend Sridhar's right to post on any thread he wishes to.

Once again, you don't have any 'right' to post something like that, because you are criticizing - or as you might put it, making an observation about - someone and not the contents of what he wrote. That is an ad hominem. I cannot be any clearer about this - do NOT refer to the individual, not even as 'not proofs' or 'passing comments'.

[sooraj]

Promise to carry forward Atalji’s good work for brave people of Arunachal: Modi

http://www.niticentral.com/2014/02/22/p ... 92526.html

“I come to you with the same resolve and promise to carry forward the good work that Atal ji and NDA Government started,” Modi said at his maiden rally at BJP’s Vijay Sankalp Abhiyan rally.

“I come from Gujarat, a land that has very old and close relations with Arunachal Pradesh. The relation between Gujarat and Arunachal brings the eastern and western part of our country together. The first rays of the Sun bless this land. Arunachal wakes up first and rest of India follows. The final rays of the Sun set in Gujarat and tell us, we will rise again tomorrow in Arunachal Pradesh,” said Modi.

Praising the flora and fauna of Arunachal Pradesh, Modi said, “This is orchard of India, see the beauty of this land. This land is a paradise for botanists.”

“The people here are real patriots as they salute their counterparts with ‘Jai Hind’ and are zealously protecting the State’s territory….. They gave a befitting reply to the advancing Chinese Army during 1962 and the British and several Army personnel from the State also fought with Pakistan during the Kargil war,” he said.

“China should shed its expansionist policy and forge bilateral ties with India for peace, progress and prosperity of both the nations,” Modi said.

“Arunachal Pradesh is an integral part of India and will always remain so. No power can snatch it from us. People of Arunachal Pradesh didn’t come under pressure or fear of China,” he said.

“I swear in the name of this soil that I will never allow the State to disappear…breakdown and to bow down,” Modi said to a thunderous applause from people gathered near the mighty Siang River.

“Arunachal has so much to give! There is a lot of water here, it can become a focal point for development, but nothing has been done in this regard. “Water resource management in the North-East is the need of the hour. Similarly, solar energy, wind energy has a lot of potential here, but nothing has been harnessed,” Modi further said.

Talking about the potential of tourism Modi said, “Look at the tourism potential here! This land is no less than a Switzerland. We can bring tourists from all over to this land. Buddhist Tourism has a lot of potential here. It is a legacy of so many years…we can get people here.”

H- Herbal, Horticulture and Handicrafts. These 3 Hs can give lot of opportunities to the people here, says Modi.

“Saugandh mujhe is mitti ki mai desh nahi mitne doonga, mai desh nahi tootne doonga, mai desh nahi jhukne doonga. JAI HIND,” Modi concluded his speech.

[Arjun]

Once again, you don't have any 'right' to post something like that, because you are criticizing - or as you might put it, making an observation about - someone and not the contents of what he wrote. That is an ad hominem. I cannot be any clearer about this - do NOT refer to the individual, not even as 'not proofs' or 'passing comments'.

Sounds a bit extreme - but if that's the redline, that will have to be complied with. I would hope that the latitude to criticize and make observations on the contents of the argument, remains in place.

[Suraj]

Of course. That's what we repeatedly suggested you do, instead of making it personal in any manner

[IndraD]

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 856540.cms

we must accomodate Hindu BD immigrants--Modi

[VinodTK]

Swiss Ambassador to India met Modi

AHMEDABAD: After meeting of USA ambassador to India Nancy Powell last week now the Swiss ambassador Linus Von Castelmur paid courtesy visit to Gujarat chief minister Narendra Modi on Friday evening. On his visit, he discussed with Modi on a range of subjects of co-operation and partnership between Gujarat along with India and Switzerland.

It was his second visit to Gujarat and he really appreciated overall development of Gujarat. Switzerland is also likely to partner in the upcoming Vibrant Gujarat Global Investor Summit in January 2015. Switzerland companies are also shown interest in Gujarat's dairy and green energy sector.

On this occasion, D.J. Pandian, Additional Chief Secretary to state industries & Mines department and. A.K. Sharma, Additional Principal Secretary to CM were present.

[Arjun]

I believe in miracles

Shobha De was initially singing the "anybody other than Modi" tune. That became "anybody other than Modi or RG"....And now it is "anybody other than Modi or Rahul or Kejriwal" !

[vivek.rao]

I believe in miracles

Shobha De was initially singing the "anybody other than Modi" tune. That became "anybody other than Modi or RG"....And now it is "anybody other than Modi or Rahul or Kejriwal" !

This time, the voter is asking just one question: What’s in it for me? Whichever neta comes up with the answer, will get the vote. As of now, all three contenders (Mr Gandhi, Mr Modi, Mr Kejriwal) have failed spectacularly in this regard.

So every loser and creep who was a DIEnasty dog uses this strategy.

Rahul failed Modi failed and now that loser Kujli is exposed as incompetent clueless idiot who has ZERO ideas on development or meeting needs of people, say Kujli failed too.

So how did Modi fail along with idiots Rahul and Kujli?

[Kati]

NaMo in Agartala, TRIPURA

http://www.tripurainfo.com/Info/Archive ... atId=12799

[Supratik]

ABP_nielsen poll on WB. TMC 29, LF 10, INC 2, BJP 0

The good news is that the LF has lost further vote share. The bad news is that national parties are not picking up, INC is stuck and BJP is not picking up on Modi's popularity.

[svenkat]

Piskology alert:
Atriji made a long post on Hindutva ideology.No replies/reactions.

[Atri]

I hope ppl who were worried about NaMo going secular and expressing their exasperation in colorful language on Modi's silence in meerut rally must be now satisfied. this further proves what I said then. Situation there was tense due to gang-rape of a hindu girl by muslims on previous evening.. It was wise of namo not to stoke that fire then.

today namo openly batting for Hindus and differentiating them from Muslims. Hindus all over the world has right to call Hindusthan as their land, irrespective of the color of their passports. Where will hindus go, which other land do Hindus have? (in other words, India is a land of Hindus). Bangladeshis of two types - Hindus and "those fulfilling vote-bank" needs. hehehe..

I wonder why this bit has nto found traction on MSM.. only Timesnow reporting it. the usual suspects who would have shouted "Communaal" are quite onlee.. Wonder what happened..

[Yagnasri]

WB is gone case. The drama of AP division made regionals anti bjp. Many regionals who would have even indirectly supported NM will now think twice.

[johneeG]

I hope ppl who were worried about NaMo going secular and expressing their exasperation in colorful language on Modi's silence in meerut rally must be now satisfied. this further proves what I said then. Situation there was tense due to gang-rape of a hindu girl by muslims on previous evening.. It was wise of namo not to stoke that fire then.

today namo openly batting for Hindus and differentiating them from Muslims. Hindus all over the world has right to call Hindusthan as their land, irrespective of the color of their passports. Where will hindus go, which other land do Hindus have? (in other words, India is a land of Hindus). Bangladeshis of two types - Hindus and "those fulfilling vote-bank" needs. hehehe..

I wonder why this bit has nto found traction on MSM.. only Timesnow reporting it. the usual suspects who would have shouted "Communaal" are quite onlee.. Wonder what happened..

Nice. Not able to hear his speeches after what was done to AP. But, Hindhuthva is the only issue which really compels me to support NaMo or Lotus because they are the only ones who bat for the Hindhus. Hopefully, they follow up their words with deeds when they come to power. Otherwise, I'd have simply not voted in this election.

About why disappointment with NaMo on AP issue:
Why were Punjabis & Bengalis angry with Gandhi due to partition by the brits? Because they had hoped and were made to believe that Gandhi was the saviour from the designs of evil brits. Similarly, no one has any expectations from kongis and their ilk. But, NaMo & his party was not expected to collude/support the kongis. Either Gandhi failed or colluded with the brits during partition. The same applies to NaMo. It seems to me that this was the first real issue at the national level that kongis threw at NaMo and NaMo failed in tackling it.

[Virupaksha]

the thing I never understand is this, Gandhi said "Partition over my dead body".

Modi always said, he was dividing telangana and he somehow cheated??

[Shanmukh]

I hope ppl who were worried about NaMo going secular and expressing their exasperation in colorful language on Modi's silence in meerut rally must be now satisfied. this further proves what I said then. Situation there was tense due to gang-rape of a hindu girl by muslims on previous evening.. It was wise of namo not to stoke that fire then.

today namo openly batting for Hindus and differentiating them from Muslims. Hindus all over the world has right to call Hindusthan as their land, irrespective of the color of their passports. Where will hindus go, which other land do Hindus have? (in other words, India is a land of Hindus). Bangladeshis of two types - Hindus and "those fulfilling vote-bank" needs. hehehe..

Yes, Atri-ji. You were absolutely right about NaMo in Meerut. Also, by picking up Silchar for his Hindutva speech, and focus on Bangladeshi Hindus, he has put the BJP in a strong position here. And unlike most other places in Assam, Barak valley has a very strong RSS and BJP presence. I would say, with that speech, NaMo has turned round both these seats for the BJP. I still don't know if BJP can win Karimganj (Muslims constitute around 55% of the voters here), but with Hindus voting solidly for the BJP, he has put the onus on the Muslims to be united in favour of AUDF (may happen, but Congress has its own Muslim votebank). Anyway, BJP is back in the game in Karimganj, and holds an advantage in Silchar, even if Santosh Mohan Deb's daughter or Gautam Roy were to contest Silchar.

I wonder why this bit has nto found traction on MSM.. only Timesnow reporting it. the usual suspects who would have shouted "Communaal" are quite onlee.. Wonder what happened..

Let us wait and see, no? They will find some way to connect this speech to 2002.

[SaiK]

the thing I never understand is this, Gandhi said "Partition over my dead body".

Modi always said, he was dividing telangana and he somehow cheated??

apples vs. orange. Gandhi was talking about dividing the nation... and any division within the nation-hood is an integration effort under the hood. get it? I like 50 states for India... that is the only way to prosper.

[Yagnasri]

the thing I never understand is this, Gandhi said "Partition over my dead body".

Modi always said, he was dividing telangana and he somehow cheated??

His party said the bill was not even introduced, will do justice, is unconstitutional, will propose amendments, will do justice etc etc etc while all along doing backroom deals with mafia. You mean to say NM is not aware of all these cheating actions by Vekayya and others?

[johneeG]

the thing I never understand is this, Gandhi said "Partition over my dead body".

Modi always said, he was dividing telangana and he somehow cheated??

Modi & his party said they will divide after they come to power in the same way they divided previous states. After the bill was defeated in the assembly, it was believed that his party would not support it right now. Collusion with the kongis was unexpected.

After the elections, it would have made the picture clear as to who stands where, especially, the support to TRS & TDP. That would have then led to the next steps. Modi & his party's collusion with the kongis is disappointing.

And what is disheartening is the way the whole process was done without proper thought. Even if the division has to be done, it should have done in a more systematic manner with proper discussions and consultations at each stage with various constituencies to address the problems of various groups. I am not talking of just pro-division or pro-unity groups. I am talking that there would be several groups with different fears, aspirations and challenges. Can it be said that all these things were taken into consideration when this bill was supported by Modi or his party?

Why this unseemly rush? Anyway, there seem to be lot of collusion at dilli level between kongis and lotus. NaMo either failed or colluded on this issue.

There are several questions that can be raised and have been raised about Modi's party's stand on small states issue. They have not really answered those questions. I don't know about cheating, but definitely I think its a negative that a party resorts to breaking states and sowing divisions just because it is unable to win seats in a state due to lack of cadre or leaders. Such tactics would be understandable from a sub-regional party, but for a party that is national and claims to be nationalistic, it is disappointing.

As for cheating, NaMo was criticizing the way the bill was being pushed in very strong terms. He said the kongis were harvesting poison (zeher ki khethi). But, his own party also participated in this poisonous harvest.

SaiK
if more states mean more unity, then why not make each street as a new state? Even better, make each house a new state...

[Atri]

johnee g garu and Dear aggrieved SA Hindus,

I did not want to restart AP debate here. So I won't be pursuing this much here.. But its done now. Creation of telangana is not creation of pakistan. Punjab was divided into Haryana, himachal and Punjab in post 1947 India. No body saw it as partition. BJP has been supporting creation of telangana since 1998. It was CBN who did not let them divide AP then (just like shivsena did not allow them to divide MH). If they win majority on their own this time, Vidarbha will materialize. Sena has already started making noises against BJP-RPI (both are supporting MH-partition). I have never supported linguistic organization of states and will welcome any such rearrangement of country.

Ppl need to get over these perceived grievances, no matter how close they are to heart and fasten the seat-belts. Hindu response cannot be robust without hunkaar of Andhra-Bhrityas. RSS now has good chance to make a stable base in telangana and slowly translate it into votes and seats. which is good for hindus in long run. Coastal Andhra is fast becoming a lost cause due to EJ activity. Eternal vigilance is something which a large section of coastal elite did not perform - result in serious loss of numerical and political power. It is utterly shameful and disgraceful that an EJ was CM and is poised to become potential CM of AP. It is not too late for AP-Hindus. Buckle up seat-belt and start organizing Shakhas (at least) in your mohallas and resist EJs and Mullahs - in spite of govt opposition. It is an uphill battle and help cannot come from rest of India until ground is prepared by AP-Hindus.

To be honest, I have more hopes from Naxalites of Khammam district to stand for Hindu cause than the Seemandhra elites who either by inaction OR collusion supported EJs to grab power. Last hope I had was Paritala Ravindra who had potential to turn saffron with adequate muscle power to reverse the tiding. And no, I have no telangana friend who is brainwashing me. I have seen work of Vanvasi Kalyan Ashram and Salva-Judum and experienced the saffron core of that region which has went maoist. tribals Ppl from gadchiroli hate police alright but have not allowed EJs to make inroads. A sense which tribals of gadchiroli showed, I am sorry to see a large section of Coastal Andhra elite did not show. Time to make amends. Else not before what happened in WB, will happen in AP. I again am beginning to sense fire in WB (not based on NaMo that is irrelevant, but from ground reports from my contacts in Hindu-samhati org of WB). No such signal from AP, in spite of such loss.

Andhra people should at least now recognize their true enemy and start working to prepare the ground so that help from rest of Hindus can arrive, if necessity arises. Rest assured, that will be happening in telangana slowly. Hyd will be encircled and taken care off - something which we should have done 300 years ago. Cannot say such things about Coastal andhra. Telangana has access to western coast via MH, if SA does not allow telangana the port-access due to ill-feeling.

Please do not be suicidal. Become saffron, propagate saffron, do not dampen the wave that is building. Hindus will reclaim eastern coast - with or without the help of coastal elites. If need be, cavalry from all over India from Punjab to malabar will ride into coastal AP. It would be great if ground is already prepared and they do not have to fight their estranged biraders,a in case of that eventuality.

over and out.

[SaiK]

john-e-ji, we should divide till a natural death for division happens or a divide by zero occurs, and every street or homes becoming states metaphor fails right level of abstraction for the given problem.

the need is purely based on the majority or sizeable number of people seeking for it. so be it! make it so!

[johneeG]

Atri saar,
haven't read your post yet, just read the addressal. Want to clarify that I am Thelanganite born and bred. I don't even have any relatives or business interests in Coastal or Seema unlike some my other T relatives(BTW, those T relatives who have business interests in Coastal or Seema support separation).

One of the angles that has not been addressed by anyone is the protection of Hindhus in Hyd from the Jihadhis. MIM was consistently talking of the entire separation issue only from the point of view of what it will do to muslims. But, BJP which is generally accused of being a Hindhu party never bothered to raise even for a single second whether the division would harm the interests of Hindhus in any of the regions. Not a single leader from any so-called right-wing parties or groups raised this issue. Not one!

SaiK,
why have states and nations that divide people? Why not have a single united humanity? Lets unite people and erase all boundaries onlee.

[SaiK]

too much unrealistic and idealistic expectations there... not possible, and impossible in desh.
it is better to think about pseudo integration process, and that too taken correct steps with setup corrections.

the faster a federated system takes shape like in massa, the better is our future.. else, only dogs in the streets will rule.

ps: only by right division, we get an integration baseline case made. else, it is a mass movement, and totally kala-angrez setup oriented focused towards dynastic betterment and dynastic policies remaining at helm.. we need to share the power deep down.. and more freedom from more states.!!

[johneeG]

SaiK
Amirkhan is the union of states, saar. States are not considered just administrative zones in Amikrhan.

Anyway, massa state has ensures 'peace' by being a police state through prison-industrial complex including private prisons.

[Atri]

Atri saar,
haven't read your post yet, just read the addressal. Want to clarify that I am Thelanganite born and bred. I don't even have any relatives or business interests in Coastal or Seema unlike some my other T relatives(BTW, those T relatives who have business interests in Coastal or Seema support separation).

One of the angles that has not been addressed by anyone is the protection of Hindhus in Hyd from the Jihadhis. MIM was consistently talking of the entire separation issue only from the point of view of what it will do to muslims. But, BJP which is generally accused of being a Hindhu party never bothered to raise even for a single second whether the division would harm the interests of Hindhus in any of the regions. Not a single leader from any so-called right-wing parties or groups raised this issue. Not one!

it was simply in response to your post, saar not meant for you personally. It was for all SA-hindu biraders who are aggrieved and are talking of abandoning Hindutva (and its current iteration) at this critical juncture. So please understand that even if the post has your name as addressee, its not personal.

You know how much I love and identify with history and many times I consider it our (maratha) failure for letting nizam survive and hyderabad exist, time and again - which has resulted in such cacophony. I have always considered that as a blunder similar to nehru's kashmir fiasco and have blamed my own direct ancestors, many of whom were actual participants in all that politicking and military maneuvers then, to have let this evil survive. But I find it is outrageous to see the extent of EJ penetration. Response has to emerge from AP Hindus. That is real threat, not creation of telangana. And now many SA hindus, when they speak of assisting an EJ (either directly or by inaction and indifference (Akarma, as bhagwan krishna would say), I find it outrageous. Where is the Sadsadvivekabuddhi of those SA biraders who speak of supporting Jagan?

Unite and reconvert the lost people. There is not going to be any support from anybody for some time. Because no one is in position to come to your aid. Gondor has to stand.

[member_20317]

johneeG garu, I belong to Uttaranchal. The state division was preceded by Mullah-e-yum's atrocities. For a while a lot of pahadis from home were dead set against yadavs of UP. To this day I fail to understand what goddamned pahadi gave his daughter in kanyadaan into that wretched family. But BR changed that.

Sometimes it is better to listen to the world. It may be trying to tell you something important.

And you don't yet know what is cooking in other places. You have got to prepare for the worst and get the largest stake in the positives.

[SRoy]

WB is gone case. The drama of AP division made regionals anti bjp. Many regionals who would have even indirectly supported NM will now think twice.

Rao saheb,

This quote from Atri...

Time to make amends. Else not before what happened in WB, will happen in AP. I again am beginning to sense fire in WB (not based on NaMo that is irrelevant, but from ground reports from my contacts in Hindu-samhati org of WB). No such signal from AP, in spite of such loss.
over and out.

is something you should ponder over.

In WB relevant orgs have started working. Not just Atri's contact, I hear this nowadays from my co-workers from M majority districts. The M appeasement that used to be under cover has just become overt under TMC rule. That is the trigger, and rural Hindus have begun to see and realize the danger. The fun will begin when the fire reaches the Kolkatan suburbs.

For AP this also is a good opportunity that has opened up. Telangana Hindus will quickly coalesce towards right wing political platforms given the MIM threat. I believe this will show the SA Hindus how bad the situation is due to EJ ingress in public life there. This reality would never be clear in front of a common SA folk under a unified AP.

I think there are many older structures that served well to hide minority appeasement and its attendant dangers. If these structures are crumbling, the dangers also are becoming too clear to the intended victims. I also see the RSS support for Telnagana issue in the same light.

This is the same logic that I think applies to Gorkhaland issue also. If Gorkhaland materializes it will save the chickens neck.
Do you think that the rural Bengalis that are battling the Islamic onslaught will turn away BJP just because they (hypothetically) tore away Darjeeling? If yes, then you are wrong. Darjeeling may matter to Kolkata's upper class gentry that go there for their summer breaks, rural folks would consider whoever protects their lands and women.

FWIW, saffronization will be very fast in WB. We don't have the burden of caste fault lines.

[Supratik]

Good points by Atri. SA folks may win the battle and loose the war. Vote CBN.

[SRoy]

But, BJP which is generally accused of being a Hindhu party never bothered to raise even for a single second whether the division would harm the interests of Hindhus in any of the regions. Not a single leader from any so-called right-wing parties or groups raised this issue. Not one!

Off topic for this thread, but I think all these Jihadi hotspots should have their own local Hindu outfits. Completely separate from BJP, funding, coordination and intel sharing done behind the scenes. Just imagine Shiv Sena like parties in Assam WB, Telangana, Kerala, TN, SA.
How many will the MSM target at a time? Currently BJP is like a single point of failure.

[AjitK]

FWIW, saffronization will be very fast in WB. We don't have the burden of caste fault lines.

Roy saar, if you don't mind, could you please expand on this? Recently, I read that the WB assembly has had the highest percentage of upper caste MLAs in India over the last few decades. Unusual, given the trend elsewhere in India.