Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 21 Feb 2014 00:17

^^^What do you mean? There are kernels for Windows CE, XP, and NT; and of XP and NT the kernels should be similar to what is available in the consumer market. If NG is using Win NT for their CVN propulsion system, a critical operation, you can not afford to have a hiccup in the OS due to an interrupt. It would be disastrous to the point where it puts life and property in danger. That is why I don't accept what you are saying at face value that all aspects of a ships propulsion system are on Win NT. A 1us hiccup, depending on the application, could be problematic and that is what I'm trying to convey. Why is this so hard to see?

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The link that Singhaji provided shows ship management support for the USN CVN-77, among many other ships including the IN P-17 class. I doubt this system is running Win NT, it could be, but I don't know anything about ship management systems like you do.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 21 Feb 2014 02:40

Mort Walker wrote:^^^What do you mean? There are kernels for Windows CE, XP, and NT; and of XP and NT the kernels should be similar to what is available in the consumer market. If NG is using Win NT for their CVN propulsion system, a critical operation, you can not afford to have a hiccup in the OS due to an interrupt. It would be disastrous to the point where it puts life and property in danger. That is why I don't accept what you are saying at face value that all aspects of a ships propulsion system are on Win NT. A 1us hiccup, depending on the application, could be problematic and that is what I'm trying to convey. Why is this so hard to see?

Therein lies your misconception. As I already pointed out to you earlier, what makes you think they are running Windoze NT desktop PC version?

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 21 Feb 2014 02:43

Google's Project Tango is a smartphone with sensors to map the world around you

Basically Kinect Fusion for the phunwa. This was the project which Google[x] bada babus refused to fund and led to Johnny Lee moving to Motor Oil ATAP. Not that Regina bibi is interested in getting anything from it, except free publicity for herself to show she can do Innnovashunnn!!!!

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 21 Feb 2014 02:57

Look what I found on /. If the hacked systems are Windoze, then I shudder to think what hackers can do if they are running on SLBM launch hardware or vessel's nuclear reactors.

Iran's Hacking of US Navy 'Extensive,' Repairs Took $10M and 4 Months

Also look what some of the people say about Pakistan.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 21 Feb 2014 03:11

Raja Bose wrote:Therein lies your misconception. As I already pointed out to you earlier, what makes you think they are running Windoze NT desktop PC version?

Alright, then let's go back to my original statement:

Anything which needs real-time interrupts is probably not running on Windows or if it is, god help them.

So you are implying that there are some versions of Windows that can handle these sort of interrupts? Again, I am skeptical.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 21 Feb 2014 04:24

Mort Walker wrote: Alright, then let's go back to my original statement:
Anything which needs real-time interrupts is probably not running on Windows or if it is, god help them.
So you are implying that there are some versions of Windows that can handle these sort of interrupts? Again, I am skeptical.

Yes that is exactly what I am telling you. Read up more and ye shall find.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 21 Feb 2014 04:27

matrimc wrote:Look what I found on /. If the hacked systems are Windoze, then I shudder to think what hackers can do if they are running on SLBM launch hardware or vessel's nuclear reactors.

Iran's Hacking of US Navy 'Extensive,' Repairs Took $10M and 4 Months

Also look what some of the people say about Pakistan.

The only sorta secure system is one which is not connected to a power source and locked in a concrete bunker with a 24/7 Gorilla sized guard sitting on it.

$10M for a repair is chump change and what did massa think that after the Stuxnet nautanki Eyeranians would sit still....Eyeranians are no Pakis.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 21 Feb 2014 04:47

Raja Bose wrote:Yes that is exactly what I am telling you. Read up more and ye shall find.

Please tell me where at MSFT I can "look up" this information?

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 21 Feb 2014 05:22

Mort Walker wrote: So you are implying that there are some versions of Windows that can handle these sort of interrupts? Again, I am skeptical.

Yes in fact: (a) read up on Win Embedded. (b) the kernel is common unlike what you are presuming.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 21 Feb 2014 10:45

^^^Thanks.

(b) the kernel is common unlike what you are presuming.

Wait. You're saying the kernel is common to standard Windows? Wouldn't this be problematic from a security PoV?

Windows Embedded certainly has a place and MSFT calls it an "RTOS". It certainly replaces embedded Windows CE in applications for commercial solutions.
However, I am very doubtful it can be used for computing systems that are very timing critical. Don't get me wrong, I'm willing to listen, but I haven't heard or seen anybody implementing Windows Embedded for avionics, sensors/radar, missile control, and EW.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 21 Feb 2014 10:56

^^^Yes the kernel is now common. Problematic from a security PoV? Perhaps but it really boils down to how they architect the kernel. The problem one faces is its better to have security through higher level of scrutiny as opposed to security through obscurity - the latter has always been historically the practice especially in the defence sector and has lead to many security breakdowns.

Windows Embedded is a RTOS (its not just some YumBeeAye giri marketing

) and its used in a lot of stuff including avionics (civilian and military), nuclear power plant control systems, warfare systems...heck even airborne lasers. Automotive is one place where its use has been restricted to the IVI onlee despite being one of the first domains to have Win Embedded products but that is primarily due to the extremely primitive setup even in high-end cars today and the usual automotive manufacturer paranoia. Tesla is pretty much the only one who have a software driven car today (Model S).

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 21 Feb 2014 12:31

Good interview from Nadella

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 21 Feb 2014 14:59

I am wondering why I can't buy an app without giving my credit card to chacha? What kind of an evil scheme is that?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 21 Feb 2014 15:14

apple also does the same thing. any app purchase needs your credit card detail. maybe some separate travel card thing but for permanent local use is best for this case..stock it up with a few 100 Rs and use it. no big loss if compromised. but the banks will make no profit on it, so not interested.

btw has anyone taken a look at the new google maps...yuck..its UI is not totally gone trying to imitate the iphone look.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 21 Feb 2014 15:42

I am interested in the "why" part of the evil scheme, not the "how" part. I am not going to buy anything unless a)I can securely pay for it without more compromises than what I already have with my bank OR b)I am in desperate need of something, like in a matter of life or limb.

I am wondering why the lust on credit card info? There is no other reason to demand the card info, when almost every service here is pre-paid.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 21 Feb 2014 16:03

q: is there a special registration when say buy a new phone (zimble onlee nokia 108 phone for my mother/ordered online). can't i slam the SIM card from the old to the new, and begin use?

the first number i dial, it says: "you may not make calls to the charge number from this telephone". now what to do?

member_20292 · Post by **member_20292** » 21 Feb 2014 16:53

tried the moto g . its a decent phone.

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 21 Feb 2014 16:59

Dileep wrote:I am interested in the "why" part of the evil scheme, not the "how" part. I am not going to buy anything unless a)I can securely pay for it without more compromises than what I already have with my bank OR b)I am in desperate need of something, like in a matter of life or limb.

I am wondering why the lust on credit card info? There is no other reason to demand the card info, when almost every service here is pre-paid.

You should not need credit card to download/install free apps.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 21 Feb 2014 17:00

SaiK wrote:q: is there a special registration when say buy a new phone (zimble onlee nokia 108 phone for my mother/ordered online). can't i slam the SIM card from the old to the new, and begin use?

the first number i dial, it says: "you may not make calls to the charge number from this telephone". now what to do?

The whole concept of SIM (invented by those crazy socialist oiropeans, while the good old capitalists in yumrika made sure that the phones are WELDED (not just tied, you see) to the phone company that sold it) is that you can move it to ANY darn phone that supported the GSM standard. The 'network locking' of phones were an afterthought influenced by the capitalists.

Unless you have a network locked phone, and unless you have a CDMA/GSM mismatch, you can put the SIM in and it should work.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 21 Feb 2014 17:01

prahaar wrote:
Dileep wrote:I am interested in the "why" part of the evil scheme, not the "how" part. I am not going to buy anything unless a)I can securely pay for it without more compromises than what I already have with my bank OR b)I am in desperate need of something, like in a matter of life or limb.

I am wondering why the lust on credit card info? There is no other reason to demand the card info, when almost every service here is pre-paid.
You should not need credit card to download/install free apps.

There ain't no free lunch. Those are ad supported, and god knows what else. Once again, what I want to know is what the motivation for chacha (And phroot, as I understand) to make it this way?

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 21 Feb 2014 19:29

Dileep wrote:I am wondering why I can't buy an app without giving my credit card to chacha? What kind of an evil scheme is that?

I don't know if it is available in India, but Google has Google Play cards just like Apple has iTunes cards that you can buy in stores for various denominations using cash or to gift to someone.
I use iTunes and Google Play cards for the kids, with lowest denomination <$20, so they can buy music and apps on their devices.

BTW, there are some good EE related apps on Google Play.

member_20292 · Post by **member_20292** » 22 Feb 2014 10:06

New android phone issues:

gmail app from google play works well

but stock email app from android...enter a gmail id ...does not seem to be able to login correctly at all. Says password is wrong when its not.

Does not give SMTP or IMAP error .

WTH is going on ?

niran · Post by **niran** » 23 Feb 2014 09:34

Marten wrote:Dileep Saar, the one click payment model initiated by Amazon is now used by almost all of the major app stores/providers. The idea is to support (rather, promote) in-app purchases. When a customer has a credit card/payment system set up, it is easier to bite and pay for impulse purchases. Most customers regret buying apps after a while. Those with a payment module setup do not have to go through the validation process, thereby increasing the possibility of them going through with the purchase.

I think there are a few papers on this as well, but the system is set up to promote in-app purchases more than app purchases itself! Same old Kapital model at work.

sometime ago I could buy paid apps provided me phone had the necessary amount for the purchase, this way no Credit card info was needed, now they have turned into give us your credit card info or else go take a hike, before people start saying you do not need
credit card for free apps, fruit company demands your credit card info just to be registered and browse the apps store.
why do they need this info? why can't me pay from me mobile phone and be done with it?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 23 Feb 2014 09:37

dunno what was the crazy aspect.. it started working today. the SIM did have about 200 bucks left in it.
I can't explain why... perhaps the commie land was testing my capitalistic senses.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 23 Feb 2014 16:27

Gear 2, Gear 2 Neo: Samsung unveils the first Tizen-powered smartwatches; ditches AndroidSamsung Gear 2, Gear 2 Neo will be available around the world starting from April.

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RB when is Samsung going to unleash the Putsch and unleash the Tizen shock army? or is this going to be the syrian coup that we are waiting for indefinitely?

member_20292 · Post by **member_20292** » 23 Feb 2014 18:41

---- and suddenly without me changing any of its settings, the stock email Android app starts working of its own voilition.

Wonderfully funny, or google is evilly promoting gmail?

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 23 Feb 2014 19:48

Whatsapp has asked for re registration and has also said that after some months they will start to levy a annual subscription of Rs 55/-

Time to find some viable alternatives??

vina · Post by **vina** » 24 Feb 2014 09:04

There it is. Mickey's lunch is being eaten by others.
Microsoft said to cut windows price by 70% to counter rivals

With Phroot and Chacha chomping up the meat and potatoes, the side dishes and stuff aint gonna be able to keep Mickey fed. Downsizing ahead?

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 24 Feb 2014 09:09

^^^ya bet

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 24 Feb 2014 09:10

Singha wrote:Gear 2, Gear 2 Neo: Samsung unveils the first Tizen-powered smartwatches; ditches AndroidSamsung Gear 2, Gear 2 Neo will be available around the world starting from April.

===
RB when is Samsung going to unleash the Putsch and unleash the Tizen shock army? or is this going to be the syrian coup that we are waiting for indefinitely?

All the tech and products is ready....waiting for Lilly livered yum bee aye soot boots to sign off.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 24 Feb 2014 12:49

GB announces Nokia X, Nokia X+ and XL Android phones (AOSP so no Green bot logo allowed). But the more interesting news is they are launching a 29 Euro phone from which you can surf the Internet and comes in-built with Bing search. Now that is smart thinking on GB's part. As usual everybody till now has been paying lip service to the Next Billion (Larry babu from Chacha was the last one to join the bandwagon and to be fair, did want to change Motor Oil's mandate to do that) but most are content with providing turd like offerings for that market segment.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 24 Feb 2014 13:52

Figured why chacha wants credit card. A colleague told a horror story about buying a game, and then the game deducting money automagically when levels are opened. He had to.. get this... cancel the card, because chacha will not de-register that card!

So, here is my decision: I will not give chacha or any other evil (now they don't use the no evil term do they?) company my money secrets, even if it is for life saving medicine!!

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 24 Feb 2014 14:00

Check these out -

www.canary.is
www.getpiper.com

I can figure that such home security systems (albeit with modifications & additions) should work great in India with the apartment-ized, iPhone toting nuclear couples. How tough are these to build by the way?

member_20292 · Post by **member_20292** » 24 Feb 2014 17:30

What are good cases to protect your phone?

I usually dont like the flip cover, because they get in the way of my hands while handling the cellphone.

I used to use a very nice , flexible, polymeric rubbery screenguard for my T Mobile Vibrant (SGS 1) - served me well. After that, I have been using my phone without any screenguard for the past 1 year, and only once when it fell on the ground at a metro station, did it get some scratches - apart from that it has been okay. (the scratches do bother me though)

What is recommended in India? Amzer? No case / cover at all? thick plasticky cases?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 24 Feb 2014 17:38

there is a way in ipad settings to disable in-app purchases.
I suggest search for it in android settings also.

Javee · Post by **Javee** » 25 Feb 2014 14:09

Singha wrote:there is a way in ipad settings to disable in-app purchases.
I suggest search for it in android settings also.

You can disable in-app purchases by setting a password on Google Play settings.

sampat · Post by **sampat** » 25 Feb 2014 17:29

you don't need credit card for iTunes account. At least, this was true till 2 years back. I use iTunes gift cards to make purchases,it prevents me from making impulse buys.
If you log in itunes, you remain logged in for sometime. So any in-app purchase or normal purchase you make after logging-in will go through without prompting for password and by design Apple don't ask for confirmation. Perhaps to encourage impulse buys and giving users less time to re-think their decision. You can also ask for refund for application you think didn't meet your expectation or those that were falsely advertised and thus misleading users. I have done so in past. But here also, apple makes you jump few hops. You need to apply it via their website and then wait for customer rep to look into your case. Another way of discouraging users from asking for refunds on cheap apps. Time better spend somewhere else then asking for 0.99 Cent return.

you can also configure restrictions for app store. General-->Enable Restrictions--> In-app Purchases, installing apps and deleting apps + other can be configured to work only with restriction password (not same as iTunes password).

Creating an iTunes Store, App Store, iBooks Store, and Mac App Store account without a credit card

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 26 Feb 2014 20:20

Nothing exciting in the high end.

Pranav babu might be in a bit of hot water given Sammy rolled back all his contributions to the galaxy gear watch.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 26 Feb 2014 20:56

Pranav Mistry seemed to have very good ideas when he was at MIT. Is it a case of rubber meeting the road?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Feb 2014 20:57

the S5 is such a letdown. and they to wait until apple put in fingerprint sensor before deciding it was needed? last 6 months nothing really exciting in high end of phones...

this is similar to indics saying things are good only if america approves it.