Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

ashish raval · Post by **ashish raval** » 25 Feb 2014 03:52

Rahul Mehta: Most RSS-apex leaders have been and still are supporters of VV = Varna Vyavastha, whatever it means. And I am anti-VV to core.

Rahul Mehta: RSS-apex has been biggest roadblock in making Hindu sects as strong as Sikhism

These two statement amply makes it clear that you know absolutely nothing about RSS. I can bet few pounds on it. Who do you know in RSS Ahmedabad ? I know Sikhs holding high positions in RSS, I know Dalits and all other castes equally at high positions. Brahmin fore founders of RSS does not mean that it has not changed. In fact, it has changed right from 1970 onwards and anyone who have breathe for nation can join and reach apex provided they are ready to devote for cause of nation and society.
How many times you have ate with Dalit or at Dalit persons house or have Dalit friends. I can bet RSS upper caste members have served more Dalit homes, ate with them and saved their lives than you have in you entire lifetime. It is easy to make sweeping statements, after all Bol bacchan is free. Enuff said.
The reason why top leadership is upper caste is because they were there since foundation and has devoted their life. It is same as any other organisation in the world that founding fathers and first team remains on top till there is change of generation where you get more diversity. Find me one black person in Nasa missions till 1990. Look at it now. Everything takes time, RSS is no different.

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 25 Feb 2014 04:11

Atri wrote: On primetime, NDTV today, Udit Raj just stopped short of saying that Ambedkar accepted an "indian" religion like Buddhism and NOT a foreign religion like islam or christianity.

Atri ji,

he did not stop short of saying it, he actually said it clear and loud.

gandharva · Post by **gandharva** » 25 Feb 2014 04:28

muraliravi wrote:
Atri wrote: On primetime, NDTV today, Udit Raj just stopped short of saying that Ambedkar accepted an "indian" religion like Buddhism and NOT a foreign religion like islam or christianity.
Atri ji,

he did not stop short of saying it, he actually said it clear and loud.

What he said about Mayawati towards the end is even more interesting.

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 25 Feb 2014 04:35

time stamp please?

gandharva · Post by **gandharva** » 25 Feb 2014 04:39

Intelligence Bureau listing Narendra Modi admirers in Congress

The need to rope in the IB has arisen because of a spate of defections in the past couple of weeks that seems to be systematically orchestrated by the Modi camp. Fanning these defections are heavyweights like Narhari Amin and Vithhal Radadia.

Apparently, one of the briefs given to the IB is to sniff out if Shankersinh Vaghela is inching any closer to Modi. Many of the recent defectors are from his camp. IB sleuths are even contacting local journalists to identify Modi admirers in the Congress. The Congress believes that Modi is out to decimate the party and there could be a deluge of defections in the build-up to the elections. Three sitting MLAs from Sabarkantha, Amreli and Junagadh have just defected to BJP, tilting the balance in three Lok Sabha seats.

Apparently, new targets are Surendranagar, Banaskantha and Bardoli, where the BJP is comparatively on a weaker wicket.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 966665.cms

gandharva · Post by **gandharva** » 25 Feb 2014 04:44

fanne wrote:time stamp please?

39:30

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 25 Feb 2014 04:45

That is how Modi is countering Salami Slicing. Interesting months ahead.

gandharva · Post by **gandharva** » 25 Feb 2014 04:59

This Zdafia guy said nastiest things possible and tried to harm when Modi was under the fire from Sonia gang. Yet Modi forgave and took him in BJP when this guy had no option and Modi didn't need him politically. This show he has big heart. But he never forgave that Joshi fellow from RSS. Any idea why?

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3776/1274 ... 2c00_o.png

http://deshgujarat.com/2014/02/24/in-pi ... -with-bjp/

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 25 Feb 2014 05:10

Karan M wrote:Walter Russell Mead and the rest of the American left group are sh!tting bricks at a Modi victory. Good.

Karan M: I did not know what kind of politics WR Mead subscribes to so went to Wikipedia to look his entry up. Surprising where I ended up.

Mead -> "radical center politics" -> "Third Wau, the Hindu Way" -> Dattopant Thengadi -> Bharatiya Majdoor Sangh -> RSS

Also looking at "Radical Center Politics" closely I have to say I agree with them on several of their strategies.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 25 Feb 2014 05:19

In our Dharmic Tradition we use to have temples that acted as

1. Worship place of Community aka Devalaya
2. Place to send children to get education aka Vidyalaya.
3. Place to get medicine where Vaidh would be available aka "Hospital" or whatisthedharmicword???helpme
4. Place where travelers can spend their night aka Sarai or whatisthedharmicword???helpme

so! in the places providing such facilities people would either provide gift(money) or help (time and labor). These people keeping these places became rich (due to sheer volume of the such services and visiting people) that in modern times are our Gurdwaras/Temples providing these 1-4 facilities or not we got to judge ourselves.

In any case to make sure that money collected is spend wisely regular elections should be held in any such place.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 25 Feb 2014 05:23

SBajwa wrote:4. Place where travelers can spend their night aka Sarai or whatisthedharmicword???helpme

In Telugu it is called dharma satramu (free translation - free room and board). Some of these were (are still?) available in Tirupathi/Tirumala.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 25 Feb 2014 05:24

I am not on FB hence couldn't read the temple vs gurudwara points. Can someone provide a gist? Sikhism is one of the monotheistic streams in the Indic system. Hinduism does not have to copy SIkhism.

Temples intent is to provide religious and spiritual solace. Temple discussions are a distraction in this thread and OT.

RM every now and then brings in devalaya.

member_23365 · Post by **member_23365** » 25 Feb 2014 05:31

Place to get medicine where Vaidh would be available aka "Hospital" or whatisthedharmicword???helpme
aushadalay
aushadi == medicine

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 25 Feb 2014 05:37

Thanks Guys!!

That's what I am getting too!! Villagers kept the temples for their own future generations and visitors while they expected other places to do the same and that was our Dharmic Society.

Devalaya, dharma satramu , Aushadalaya, Vidyalaya all rolled into one!! That's why in our traditions Doctors and Teachers are valued!! They reside and provide services among Gods/God!

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 25 Feb 2014 05:39

muraliravi wrote: Atri ji,

he did not stop short of saying it, he actually said it clear and loud.

He called it out clearly. Unhone islam ya isaayi ko nahin apanaya. He said Buddism is 'is mitti ka'.

No stones are going to be left unturned in UP.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 25 Feb 2014 05:42

^Somehow, so soul-warming to see a H mobilization.... not since the heady RJB days.... if the GV can be turned around, the effects on downstream Bengal can be immense...

Now, if only the Hs could mobilize even half as effectively against the RoLs down south... unless the threat perception is crystal clear and staring at one in the face, not gonna happen... the way to do that is to release the census 2011 report, warts and all... let truth speak. reconciliation will come later. maybe.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 25 Feb 2014 05:54

Assuming the worst as a cynic, let us for the moment consider Udit is just riding the bandwagon and being opportunistic. It speaks volumes about the situation at ground zero, for an ideologue to side and speak for hindutva. Udit is seeing the wind blowing and shrewdly tilting his sail.

Or he has converted, which again highlights the ground situation. Amit Shah unstoppable? Yeh to Advani ka baap nikala.

Yada yada hi dharmsya......

gandharva · Post by **gandharva** » 25 Feb 2014 06:09

Paswan and Udit Raj are very deft move by RSS and Modi team in cow-belt. Most likley it's to counter the Cong+Mayawati alliance in coming days. I think Paswan has been promised Dalit leader stature in UP/Bihar, which he was denied in favor of Mayawati by ABV and left NDA. If non Jatav SCs can be made to vote for BJP, Lottas of cow-belt are dead meet and Congress will be over in Ganjetic plains even before Gujarat.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 25 Feb 2014 06:17

gandharva do you have stats for above hope?

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 25 Feb 2014 06:31

Virendra wrote:I think SS may be furious that her loyalty to Vajpayee+LKA didn't pay off at all. She thought she was the successor?
I mean remember all the pain she took ... fighting election against Sonia ... learning fluent Kannada ...

SSji speaking Kannada is like Soniaji speaking Hindi. Except much better.

Must give her credit for the effort though. However, I think she is reading from a Hindi script off camera.

gandharva · Post by **gandharva** » 25 Feb 2014 06:34

ramana wrote:gandharva do you have stats for above hope?

There are 66 dalit sub-castes in UP who add up to form 21% of state's population. According to the 2001 Census among the dalits, Jatavs alone constitute 56% of the scheduled caste (SC) population. Pasis constitute 16% while the third rung (another 15%) is made of Dhobis, Koris and Balmikis. The last chunk, comprising Gonds, Dhanuks, and Khatiks constitute about 5%. Political pundits state that it is easy for BSP to win over the Jatavs because Mayawati belongs to this community, but the challenge lies in wooing the other dalits.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... eferral=PM

I dread Lotta+SC+M.(4%+20+18=42%). It can only be countered by Pasis+Balmikis+Dhobis etc ie 40% of SC vote. BJP will have to make sure that mayawati doesn't get much beyond her caste. Udit Raj is Khatik.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 25 Feb 2014 06:38

matrimc wrote:
Karan M wrote:Walter Russell Mead and the rest of the American left group are sh!tting bricks at a Modi victory. Good.
Karan M: I did not know what kind of politics WR Mead subscribes to so went to Wikipedia to look his entry up. Surprising where I ended up.

Mead -> "radical center politics" -> "Third Wau, the Hindu Way" -> Dattopant Thengadi -> Bharatiya Majdoor Sangh -> RSS

Also looking at "Radical Center Politics" closely I have to say I agree with them on several of their strategies.

Matrimc, please read walter meads articles from before. Some even appear pro India. He went to pak and everyone ranted against india and he appeared all neutral etc. But...as always, if we keep reading through his stuff a pattern emerges.

Basically he's a left liberal American dude/"intellectual" who is ok with India provided it

a) remains oh-so-genteel secular of the INC kind (even if he harrumphs from time to time about how they have done mean things like 1984 and are corrupt)
b) accepts US supremacy

b) is of course a leitmotif of ALL these scholars, irrespective of which side of the fence they are from. whether it be tellis or a mead or some dude from pew or heritage or whatever, b) is all important.

the rise of modi is worrisome to all of them, as it reflects on the rise of hindoo nationalists (shudder!) and mead of course has a bone to pick with him on the HN part in particular.

basically india in all these folks minds is the land of gungadins, oh so polite outsourced labour (world is flat et al trope), and must and should "civilize itself" (preferably by reading doniger in the morning and their articles in the evening).

any proud yindoo nationalist who speaks of an assertive yindoo india, or does things like n-tests (the eebil BJP did that) or accelerates India's MIC is automatically a threat.

ps: expect much much more against indoo fascists once modi comes to power from people of all stripes. conservative, libertarian, left, centrists etc - all with a single agenda in mind.
pps: the movement of our fartillectuals like setalvad/mander etc to the west has already begun as another "front" to be opened.

vivek.rao · Post by **vivek.rao** » 25 Feb 2014 06:40

Hari Seldon wrote:^Somehow, so soul-warming to see a H mobilization.... not since the heady RJB days.... if the GV can be turned around, the effects on downstream Bengal can be immense...

Now, if only the Hs could mobilize even half as effectively against the RoLs down south... unless the threat perception is crystal clear and staring at one in the face, not gonna happen... the way to do that is to release the census 2011 report, warts and all... let truth speak. reconciliation will come later. maybe.

South is totally a different project. very hard

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 25 Feb 2014 06:42

gandharva, Thanks. ramana

vivek, South is different due to language differentiation.

SanjayC · Post by **SanjayC** » 25 Feb 2014 06:47

SBajwa wrote:Thanks Guys!!

That's what I am getting too!! Villagers kept the temples for their own future generations and visitors while they expected other places to do the same and that was our Dharmic Society.

Devalaya, dharma satramu , Aushadalaya, Vidyalaya all rolled into one!! That's why in our traditions Doctors and Teachers are valued!! They reside and provide services among Gods/God!

Temples were also cultural centers. All festivals celebrated there and song and dance performances used to happen in temple complex every evening.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 25 Feb 2014 06:58

vivek.rao wrote: South is totally a different project. very hard

Not really. KL, kosta and dakshin KA are all ripe for H mobilization based on survival factors... need effective local leaders and cred to pull it off. Need also a solid intellectual foundation and base to answer the whats and the whys of the project.... Here is where we Hs have spectacularly failed so far. Self-made authors like Rajiv Malhotra apart.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 25 Feb 2014 07:02

All this talk of solid intellectual foundations etc gives me a headache. There's a simple means to control the whole thing - stop the flow of money coming in. It's really that simple.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 25 Feb 2014 07:02

Karan: thanks for the heads-up.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 25 Feb 2014 07:06

Suraj wrote:All this talk of solid intellectual foundations etc gives me a headache. There's a simple means to control the whole thing - stop the flow of money coming in. It's really that simple.

Then asprin is thy friend... Saar, we're talking 2 different aspects of the problem, both non-contradictory. You talk of curbing EJ-ism and I of mobilizing the Indics. Not exactly chalk and cheese but not exactly identical either.

In addition to turning off the money faucets of the EJs, will have to free the temples and their boards of malign sarkari influence. Temple money and influence and organization to be used for exclusively indic purposes only. And so on.

x-post:

vivek.rao wrote:

Jingos! See this and wake unto a good morning. Smell the coffee, inhale and relax.

One day when you have grand kids in a prosperous/independent India, remember who made it happen 2014. He was called Sher of Gujarat then Sher of India

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 25 Feb 2014 07:09

Agreed. But the former is easier to accomplish, since none of the money goes into sarkari hands. The latter, GoI already has its paws over. It will take an administration that really cares about the matter to accomplish that. Taxing or curtailing foreign money, on the other hand, is much more direct.

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 25 Feb 2014 07:15

SwamyG wrote:Assuming the worst as a cynic, let us for the moment consider Udit is just riding the bandwagon and being opportunistic. It speaks volumes about the situation at ground zero, for an ideologue to side and speak for hindutva. Udit is seeing the wind blowing and shrewdly tilting his sail.

Or he has converted, which again highlights the ground situation. Amit Shah unstoppable? Yeh to Advani ka baap nikala.

Yada yada hi dharmsya......

Chacha says Amit Shah was born in Chicago.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 25 Feb 2014 07:28

English media problem with Amit Shah is he talks very little and does much much more. Media can attack gasbags but seriously lack expertise or patience to find out what he is doing. You will find Hindi or local UP media may do better job.

Santosh · Post by **Santosh** » 25 Feb 2014 07:28

Can anyone provide any information/stats on how GoI is dipping into temple funds? Most of the larger temple funds are managed by their trust e.g. TTD, Shirdi Sai Trust etc. Is it the smaller temples from where GoI is skimming funds?

gandharva · Post by **gandharva** » 25 Feb 2014 07:37

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 25 Feb 2014 07:41

Temples - Endoment Department is under respetive state govts which destoryed them in many ways.

gandharva · Post by **gandharva** » 25 Feb 2014 07:44

As predicted, Lottas going for the final battle.

The Battle for Uttar Pradesh: A Congress-BSP tie-up might beat BJP but will prove costly for Cong

Congress-BSP vs BJP Significantly, reports from UP suggest that the Congress and the BSP are indeed toying with the idea of a pre-poll arrangement. Certainly, the compulsions have never been stronger.

A Dalit-Muslim power bloc would be formidable and could well upset Modi's applecart. There are around 50 Lok Sabha constituencies where Dalits and Muslims together make up over 40% of the electorate.

And if Brahmins come on board, it would revive Indira Gandhi's winning social alliance with which the Congress fought back peasant leader Charan Singh's Jat-OBC combine in the 1970s.

Muslims are looking at the BSP in a big way for the first time. Their

http://articles.economictimes.indiatime ... -bjp-ranks

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 25 Feb 2014 07:47

Are congress = lottas?

Then why does the article claim Brahmins come aboard? Arent they with Mayawati?

niran · Post by **niran** » 25 Feb 2014 08:21

ramana wrote:Are congress = lottas?

Then why does the article claim Brahmins come aboard? Arent they with Mayawati?

Brahmins have ditched Maya and Congress MSY and Bjp are the onree contesters' left lakshmikant bajpai
has been tasked to do the needful.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 25 Feb 2014 08:22

http://www.globalslaveryindex.org/count ... averyindex

NM has to deal with this kind of rubbish once he is in power.

gandharva · Post by **gandharva** » 25 Feb 2014 08:24

ramana wrote:Are congress = lottas?

Then why does the article claim Brahmins come aboard? Arent they with Mayawati?

If Modi becomes PM, this cow-belt UC clique will lose their hold on Delhi for long time to come. Post RJB not all Brahmins will vote for Congress like in Indira days. It's the harcore Congressi types in villages (due sense of loyality) and almost Xianized ie Tejpal types in Urban areas.