Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Feb 2014 19:34

TSP has a bunch of around 200 F6, F7 and Mirages that need replacement. they cannot produce JF17 fast enough and may not be economical to get all new a.c
so bunches of used F-16 is the best way forward.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 26 Feb 2014 20:41

But F-6, Mirage, F-7 are not great aircraft, 1 f-16 is probably 2-3 of this. For Pakis a stalemate or a non conclusive Indian victory is a victory. There fore 75 F-16 are more than enough.

IAF needs to dominate and get PAF disappear within 12 hours.

vic · Post by **vic** » 26 Feb 2014 21:01

Can somebody give a break up of Paki F-16s? I thought, it was:-

32 Original upgraded by MLU

18 second upgraded by MLU ie Total 50 upgraded, few of which may have crashed.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 26 Feb 2014 21:03

merlin wrote:
Lalmohan wrote:who'se going to pay for that?
Money is not going to be a problem. How much can the old ones cost? Uncle is anyway there for eating up upgradation costs. Assistance to fight terror, part n, anyone?

Let's wait and see. If money is no problem why not new f-16s? That should keep production lines going rather than money going to third countries.

I suspect that no F 16s will go from Jordan to Pakistan. I will accept that I was wrong if it happens.

Even the news from Jane's is " deal almost done". I have heard about one heck of a lot of "almost done" deals form Pakistan.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Feb 2014 21:42

mil-ind complex would be horrified to reopen the f16 production line. they know where the malai is - JSF - 3x costlier, with 10x more complex system and weapons.

4th gen system for the khan - chi chi chi...sharm aana chahiye

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 26 Feb 2014 23:15

unkil has no further utility for munna now that they are vacating afpak
saudi has some, but only as an anti iran front
not even sure that jordan is allowed to sell to munna without unkil's explicit say so
unkil has no immediate motive to allow that to happen - the aircraft are close to junk status in unkil's eyes

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 27 Feb 2014 10:57

Lalmohan wrote:unkil has no further utility for munna now that they are vacating afpak
saudi has some, but only as an anti iran front
not even sure that jordan is allowed to sell to munna without unkil's explicit say so
unkil has no immediate motive to allow that to happen - the aircraft are close to junk status in unkil's eyes

Utility of munna will remain as long as India has a potential to be a so-called great power. A nuisance state against a potential great power is always nurtured by Unkil.

Unkil will never let go of his pet munna. Never ever.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 27 Feb 2014 11:59

too big to be allowed to fail as well.
qila e sunni in the east to contain cheen. never mind they play both sides, but retaining influence means money and green cards have to flow.

Brando · Post by **Brando** » 28 Feb 2014 01:11

merlin wrote: Utility of munna will remain as long as India has a potential to be a so-called great power. A nuisance state against a potential great power is always nurtured by Unkil.

Unkil will never let go of his pet munna. Never ever.

America won't let Pakistan go but not for the reasons you think.

Maybe 20-30 years ago the Americans saw Pakistan as a useful counterweight to India in the subcontinent but that is no longer true. Today, they have nurtured a far more dangerous demon - China, to keep India and the rest of Asia on tender hooks. They want India to be one flank in their battlelines against the Chinese and don't want India getting bogged down with Pakistan and the nutjobs over there. Today India is useful, IF they can figure out how to get a handle on India. They want another South Korea or Phillipines, not a France in South Asia.

The reason they will never let go of Pakistan is that like every good suicide bomber, Pakistan is using its own death as its ultimate trump card - threatening to implode and scatter nukes all over the Islamic world when it goes. That is a nightmare scenario as far as the Americans are considered and that is the reason they will continue to prop up their "munna" by throwing scraps from their table now and again.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Feb 2014 07:10

true to some extent, but it is TSP and not Cheen that offers America access to CAR from the south, as Iran route is off limits for america. thats their trump card.
a normalization of US-Iran relations could remove that last trump card off the table and leave them nanga. it will also leave the saudis nanga to an extent if iran gets the investments needed to ramp its oil & gas production and sell properly on world markets.

also being a big gorilla even what counts as scraps from its table like 30 F-solah here or 100 M109SP there is a big threat to us.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 28 Feb 2014 08:57

Singha wrote:true to some extent, but it is TSP and not Cheen that offers America access to CAR from the south,

This might well be one more "bakwaas" spouted by Pakistan.

Where are the land routes from CAR to Indian ocean via Pakistan? There were none historically. There are none now. Pakistan simply has no way of being a conduit for CAR oil any more than my hands can claim that I can never be fed if I had no hands. In fact there is no serious way Pakistan can be a route for Gulf oil to China, despite the loud rhetoric. This could have been point number 11 in Christine Fair's article, if she was interested.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Feb 2014 09:37

I was not talking of oil since I am aware oil is already flowing into cheen, russia and turkey via other routes from CAR, but US logisitical access for future adventures in the CAR for which TSP offers the cheapest and shortest land routes, with no complications of having to placate Russia(uzbeki route) or iran. us-russia relations have been on a downward spiral for some time and the syrian and ukrainian fires created under western patronage will not help. snowden is also granted safety in russia now.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 01 Mar 2014 12:15

Pak set to get Chinese submarines - ToI

Jane's weekly quoting a senior Pakistani official says China is set to sell up to six submarines to Pakistan by end of 2014.

Pakistan's ambitious defence planners are also pushing China for selling submarine-launched nuclear ballistic missiles. But western diplomats say China may be reluctant to hand over such sophisticated equipment fearing harsh reactions from Washington. {Absolutely nothing of that sort. The 'harsh reactions' could be stage-managed to pacify India, but with the India-US relation what it is nowadays, even that would not happen. Very soon, PN would have submarine-launched ballistic missiles.}

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Mar 2014 12:58

but the only chinese sub launched ballistic missiles are on the lone Xia and the new Jin class SSBN (JL1 and JL2). the rest of it - kilos, romeos, mings, yuans do not have the size or fitting for it.

I guess they mean SLCM variant of the CJ10 long sword which I am sure Cheen is already working on for the Shang class SSNs - that would give TT launched SLCM capability for a start and follow on to Shang tranche1 might have UVLS system.

ashish raval · Post by **ashish raval** » 01 Mar 2014 13:30

Hehe and Indians are wetting in their pants to give few missiles to Vietnam ! Supa dupa power.

K Mehta · Post by **K Mehta** » 01 Mar 2014 18:43

Army officer dies in Skardu avalanche, two missing

An army officer was killed and two others are still missing when an avalanche hit Olding area near Skardu on Thursday.
According to military sources, a rescue operation is underway to recover the missing personnel. Three soldiers went missing after Thursday avalanche which Pakistan army kicked off rescue operation on the glacier at Polding sector for search of missing personnel who are believed to be buried under avalanche

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Mar 2014 19:01

Karakorams are famous for really unstable slopes with cornices and seracs collapsing on climbers with no warning.

K2 has claimed a lot more souls than everest. It also the most unstable weather near the top. Its not a place for boys, even the best have tried it ascend repeatedly and got beaten back.

dinesh_kimar · Post by **dinesh_kimar** » 01 Mar 2014 20:19

Western experts rate the Pakis being better trained; as seen on some sites like FAS.org. And, Major MH AMIN's book says the Pakis were confident against superior Indian Numbers on the basis of "better training / quality of troops". Further, the PA website on Training Institutions is better organized, with training schedule and eligibility listed, compared to our IA Website, which, IMHO, is quite crappy. Being an ally of Unkil and with exchange programmes in good stead, there may be no shortage of training material and manuals. So, could the general perception abt IA being qualitatively superior be just a myth, a type of Military Bluster and a lot of hot air?

(Ducking for Cover...)

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 01 Mar 2014 20:23

1.

ashish raval wrote:Hehe and Indians are wetting in their pants to give few missiles to Vietnam ! Supa dupa power.

2.

dinesh_kumar wrote:Western experts rate the Pakis being better trained; as seen on some sites like FAS.org. And, Major MH AMIN's book says the Pakis were confident against superior Indian Numbers on the basis of "better training / quality of troops". Further, the PA website on Training Institutions is better organized, with training schedule and eligibility listed, compared to our IA Website, which, IMHO, is quite crappy. Being an ally of Unkil and with exchange programmes in good stead, there may be no shortage of training material and manuals. So, could the general perception abt IA being qualitatively superior be just a myth, a type of Military Bluster and a lot of hot air?

(Ducking for Cover...)

Years of collective research. Tens of thousands of posts. And this.

wtf? BRF?

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 01 Mar 2014 20:44

return to marshall race theory Jihadi version - One munna Jihadi is better than ten banias.

saip · Post by **saip** » 01 Mar 2014 21:43

dinesh_kumar wrote:Western experts rate the Pakis being better trained; as seen on some sites like FAS.org. And, Major MH AMIN's book says the Pakis were confident against superior Indian Numbers on the basis of "better training / quality of troops". Further, the PA website on Training Institutions is better organized, with training schedule and eligibility listed, compared to our IA Website, which, IMHO, is quite crappy. Being an ally of Unkil and with exchange programmes in good stead, there may be no shortage of training material and manuals. So, could the general perception abt IA being qualitatively superior be just a myth, a type of Military Bluster and a lot of hot air?

(Ducking for Cover...)

I do agree with you. That is the reason they were able to beat up rag tag IA in 1948, 1965, 1971, and 1999. Only because they are magnanimous India still has J&K. Even though they 'liberated' it every time, they just walked out because of the goodness of their hearts. in 1971 they just simply gave BD its independence after implanting their women with devil's seed! They out Chanikyed India!

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 01 Mar 2014 23:41

dinesh_kumar wrote:Western experts rate the Pakis being better trained; as seen on some sites like FAS.org. And, Major MH AMIN's book says the Pakis were confident against superior Indian Numbers on the basis of "better training / quality of troops". Further, the PA website on Training Institutions is better organized, with training schedule and eligibility listed, compared to our IA Website, which, IMHO, is quite crappy. Being an ally of Unkil and with exchange programmes in good stead, there may be no shortage of training material and manuals. So, could the general perception abt IA being qualitatively superior be just a myth, a type of Military Bluster and a lot of hot air?

(Ducking for Cover...)

Maybe you should get some first hand experience of some of our troops. I suggest the Naga Regt and 3 Para. They have an interesting way of handling certain parts of anatomy of your jihadi friends. I can try to arrange a live demo for you....on you.

I can tell you authoritatively what the army used to think about the jihadis about 7-10 years ago. The saying was 'If the jihadi terrorists were half as motivated and one fourth as brave as the LTTE we would have lost the valley a long time ago'.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 02 Mar 2014 00:15

that might be giving more credit to LTTE than is warranted. we fought that war with hands tied behind our back and had little experience in modern COIN. many of the lessons leart during IPKF were implemented in J&K.

yes, dinesh you are absolutely correct, PA soldiers are much better trained than ours (about 10 times). that is why they have carefully avoided a conventional war with India since their massive victory in 1971. only when the nuclear umbrella gave some balance to inferior IA did they risk it again.

Mahesh_R · Post by **Mahesh_R** » 02 Mar 2014 00:30

dinesh_kumar wrote:Western experts rate the Pakis being better trained; as seen on some sites like FAS.org. And, Major MH AMIN's book says the Pakis were confident against superior Indian Numbers on the basis of "better training / quality of troops". Further, the PA website on Training Institutions is better organized, with training schedule and eligibility listed, compared to our IA Website, which, IMHO, is quite crappy. Being an ally of Unkil and with exchange programmes in good stead, there may be no shortage of training material and manuals. So, could the general perception abt IA being qualitatively superior be just a myth, a type of Military Bluster and a lot of hot air?

(Ducking for Cover...)

The info you got might be from paid news by TSP
The west might just gave that comment to keep its munna happy though they privately have fun who they actually perform..
......

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 02 Mar 2014 07:09

training is really superior guys admit it. See how they trained and planned the victory of 1971 including party to celebrate it. What did SDRE generals do?

On December 14, 1971. Major General Rao Farman Ali and Lieutenant General A.A.K. Niazi, the military commander in East Pakistan, asked the U.S. consul in Dhaka (capital of East Pakistan) to transmit a surrender proposal to New Delhi. Before forwarding the proposal, the U.S. ambassador in Islamabad was instructed by Washington to get approval from Yahya. The foreign secretary. Sultan Ahmed, speaking on behalf of the president of Pakistan, gave the necessary approval. Yahya Khan did not have time to attend to this matter personally. On the eve of Pakistan’s surrender he was giving a party in his newly constructed house in Peshawar.” One of the few guests was Mrs. Shamim, known as “Black Pearl,” the Bengali beauty who was Yahya‘s latest sexual afﬁliate and whom he had recently appointed as Pakistan’s ambassador to Austria. As drinks ﬂowed, so did the affair go progressively nude. It was when the whole party was drunk and unattired, except for Major General Ishaque, Yahya’s military secretary, that “Black Pearl” wished to go home. The president insisted that he would drive her personally, both of them stark naked. General Ishaque could not save Pakistan. but he did manage to knock enough sense into the sizzled head of a fun loving president to put him into his pants. Thus coincided the housewarming of the president’s house with the surrender in East Pakistan.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 02 Mar 2014 08:28

enough reports about the performance of pak soldiers at US etc countries exist on this board. karan m has posted a couple in the last few months.

arun · Post by **arun** » 02 Mar 2014 12:25

Iran claims that Iranian border guards held hostage in Pakistan have been rescued by Pakistani forces while on the other hand Pakistan claims they know nothing about the rescue.

Methinks the Iranian’s unilaterally launched a cross border operation to free kidnap victims held in Pakistan and having done so are looking to preserve Pakistani Honour and Dignity aka H&D by giving credit for the rescue to Pakistan.

Seems the Uniformed Jihadi’s of the Army of the Islamic Republic were sleeping on the job of securing Pakistan’s frontiers:

Iran says abducted border guards freed in Pakistan

arun · Post by **arun** » 02 Mar 2014 12:26

The Punjabi dominated Uniformed Jihadi’s of the Army of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan are forcibly occupying land of Pushtun farmers. 200,000 Pathans in Khawazakhela to lose access to their land because of the construction of an army base by the Punjabi dominated Uniformed Jihadi’s of the Army of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan :

Pakistani army fuels anger in securing Swat from Taliban

ashish raval · Post by **ashish raval** » 02 Mar 2014 12:34

ashish raval wrote:
Hehe and Indians are wetting in their pants to give few missiles to Vietnam ! Supa dupa power.

Years of collective research. Tens of thousands of posts. And this.

wtf? BRF?

What is wrong is making self fun ? What else could you say in this situation when our neighbour is arming every bit of place around us and we are watching helplessly like cattle waiting before being butchered ? Waiting for miracle I.e. Collapse of China to happen to save ourselves ? India should help Vietnam train on nuke submarine and then help them lease nuke sub either from Russia and if not give Arihant after it finishes the sea trials and in IN service. You have to build your allies, India has none in the world. China is fast replicating Shanghai like cities to buffer itself from the shock of destruction of big four places, hongkong, Shanghai, Beijing and Guangdong.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 07 Mar 2014 02:23

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htproc ... 40305.aspx

Procurement: The F-16s Go Round And Round

March 5, 2014: Pakistan recently bought 13 older F-16A fighters from Jordan. These F-16As had recently undergone a mid-life update and have, on average, 3,000 flight hours left. This increases the Pakistani F-16 fleet to 76 aircraft. This is far less than the Indian Su-30 fleet (over 200 and headed for 300 in the next few years), but every F-16 helps Pakistan in a potential air war with India.

Meanwhile Jordan has also been buying Cold War surplus F-16s to update its own air force. Back in 2006 Jordan bought 20 Cold War F-16s from the Netherlands. Jordan already had 35 used F-16s (from the United States and the Netherlands.) Most of these aircraft are upgraded with late model radars and electronics. Jordan got all these aircraft at about a third the price of new aircraft. Even with the recent sale to Pakistan that still leaves 46 F-16Cs in the Jordanian air force.

Pakistan also has a growing number of more modern F-16s. Back in 2012 they received three F-16 Block 52 fighters. These are all-weather aircraft that are particularly effective at night. These were the first all-weather fighters the Pakistani Air Force had received and another 15 of these aircraft were delivered by 2011. Pakistan had operated 40 F-16 since the 1990s, but was barred from buying any more after Pakistan revealed that it had nuclear weapons in 1998. That embargo was lifted in 2005 and another 14 F-16s were delivered by 2008.

Pakistan also hired a Turkish firm to upgrade its older F-16s from Block 15 configuration to Block 40 (about halfway to the highest upgrade level for an F-16). Now that the U.S. has lifted its arms embargo on Pakistan, there are many firms competing for all the work needed to update older American weapons still used by Pakistan. The Turks have long had good trade relations with Pakistan, and have also developed, with the help of the U.S. and Israel, a growing aircraft maintenance and upgrade industry. Most of the F-16 work was be done in Pakistan using Turkish engineers and technicians supervising some local workers and using largely imported (from Turkey and elsewhere) components. Turkey has long maintained one the largest F-16 fleets outside of the United States.

The F-16 is the most numerous post-Cold War jet fighter, with over 4,200 built, and still in production. During The Cold War, Russia built over 10,000 MiG-21s, and the U.S over 5,000 F-4s. Since the 1980s warplane production has plummeted about 90 percent. Yet since the end of the Cold War in 1991 the F-16 has been popular enough to keep the production lines going.

The U.S. F-16 is one of the most modified jet fighters in service. While most are still called the F-16C, there are actually six major mods, identified by block number (32, 40, 42, 50, 52, 60), plus the Israeli F-16I, which is a major additional modification of the Block 52. Another special version (the Block 60), for the UAE (United Arab Emirates) is called the F-16E. The F-16D is a two seat trainer version of F-16Cs. The various block mods included a large variety of new components (five engines, four sets of avionics, five generations of electronic warfare gear, five radars and many other mechanical, software, cockpit and electrical mods.)

The F-16 can also function as a bomber and ground attack aircraft, although not as effectively as the air force would have you believe. It can carry four tons of bombs. In air-to-air combat, it has shot down 69 aircraft so far, without losing anything to enemy warplanes. It was originally designed as a cheaper alternative to the heavier F-15.

The two most advanced versions of the F-16 are in use by foreign air forces. The UAE has 80 "Desert Falcons" (the F-16E) which is optimized for air combat. It is a 22 ton aircraft based on the Block 52 model, but with an AESA (phased array) radar and lots of other additional goodies.

The Israeli F-16I is optimized for bombing. It's a 24 ton, two seat aircraft, and is probably the most capable F-16 model in service. It's basically a modified version of the Block 52, equipped with a more advanced radar (the APG-68X) and the ability to carry Israeli weapons like the Python 4 air-to-air missile and the Popeye 2 air-to-surface missile. Costing $45 million each, the F-16I has an excellent navigation system, which allows it to fly on the deck (a few hundred feet from the ground), without working the pilot to death. The aircraft can do this at night or in any weather. The F-16I can carry enough fuel to hit targets 1,600 kilometers away (meaning Iran is within range). The aircraft uses the latest short and long range air-to-air missiles, as well as smart bombs. Electronic countermeasures are carried, as is a powerful computer system, which records the details of each sortie in great detail. This is a big help for training. The F-16I is basically optimized to deliver smart bombs anywhere, despite dense air defense

Since 2008 Pakistani F-16s have been heavily used in the tribal territories, along the Afghan border, dropping smart and dumb bombs, and giving the pilots experience using targeting pods. This is the first combat experience the Pakistani F-16s have received and the Pakistanis are satisfied with F-16 performance as a bomber.

So Fizzileya is bombing tribals as practice runs for the real war with India.

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 07 Mar 2014 08:25

i quite doubt they are dropping smart bombs? what accuracy do u require when bombing villages

Brando · Post by **Brando** » 07 Mar 2014 21:48

Strategypage as an information source is notoriously unreliable. It is scarcely anything more than self congratulatory and self aggrandizing American egocentric claptrap. Their dogmatic 2D worldview of America "good", Everybody else "sucks" is predictably amusing.

Them saying that PAF is "gaining valuable" experience bombing villages willy nilly in Swat should be translated their "GI Joe" worldview which doesn't translate into anything substantive. Putting the F-16As against the MKI stretches credibility to its maximum when even the Tejas would be more capable than an early model F16A.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 08 Mar 2014 03:16

+1 Strategy page and most of these so called western anal-ysts are asinine.
When they actually meet / exercise with the forces they jabber about, they go back with their claims shattered.

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 08 Mar 2014 09:24

Rahul M wrote:that might be giving more credit to LTTE than is warranted. we fought that war with hands tied behind our back and had little experience in modern COIN. many of the lessons leart during IPKF were implemented in J&K.

yes, dinesh you are absolutely correct, PA soldiers are much better trained than ours (about 10 times). that is why they have carefully avoided a conventional war with India since their massive victory in 1971. only when the nuclear umbrella gave some balance to inferior IA did they risk it again.

Rahul sahab, I agree but the point that quote makes is that we have a lot of experience of the fighting abilities of the Pakis and the Mujahids (hands tied behind our back again) and they are not good fighters. Compared to them the LTTE were respected.

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 08 Mar 2014 09:53

Talking about fighting abilities, this is one sign of regt spirit. Assam regt song- Baldu Ram ka ration. Tagra Raho !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIl1nL64KNI

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 08 Mar 2014 10:50

dinesh_kumar wrote:Western experts rate the Pakis being better trained; as seen on some sites like FAS.org. And, Major MH AMIN's book says the Pakis were confident against superior Indian Numbers on the basis of "better training / quality of troops". Further, the PA website on Training Institutions is better organized, with training schedule and eligibility listed, compared to our IA Website, which, IMHO, is quite crappy. Being an ally of Unkil and with exchange programmes in good stead, there may be no shortage of training material and manuals. So, could the general perception abt IA being qualitatively superior be just a myth, a type of Military Bluster and a lot of hot air?

(Ducking for Cover...)

I agree here is the video of mere 90 thousand porki soldiers' bravery against vastly superior numbers of Bhartiya Sena THREE THOUSAND SOLDIERS:

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 08 Mar 2014 17:13

ramana wrote:So Fizzileya is bombing tribals as practice runs for the real war with India.

Except the fact that unlike the unwashed believers in ankle-length jammies with satellite phones the evil banias have sophisticated tracking systems and the means to shoot down the fizzle-yahs!

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 08 Mar 2014 19:53

What a Lie regarding F-16 A to A record.

There are some unverifiable claims from A TO A from Syria. Serbian F-16 shoot down. Apart from Soviet Mig-23 shootdown of Paki F-16 and Greek M2000 shooting a Turkish F-16C with a R550 magic missile in 1996 and admitted by Turks.

Yet there is no question of F-16 ever been shoot down in Air to Air combat. Yet every claim F-16 kill is immediately accepted including Fiizle ya and some Bekaa valley claims.

tushar_m · Post by **tushar_m** » 12 Mar 2014 09:02

Pakistan Eyes Possible Defense Budget Increase

ISLAMABAD — Pakistan is examining a possible defense budget increase in light of a changing security and financial situation, but though new equipment is needed rising operational costs could soak up any increase, say analysts.

The Associated Press of Pakistan (APP) reported Finance Minister Ishaq Dar discussed the possibility of assisting the military’s development program with Chief of Army Staff Gen. Raheel Sharif during a meeting over the weekend.

Just how much more money the armed forces can expect is uncertain despite some improvements in the economy. Sakib Sherani, an economic commentator and CEO of Islamabad-based economic consultancy firm, Macro Economic Insights, says the increase would not be much.

The “‘green shoots’ of a recovery in economic growth do appear to be sprouting, but it is fragile. Without fundamental, credible structural reform, the economy will not be able to post a durable, lasting turnaround,” he said.

Analyst Haris Khan of the Pakistan Military Consortium think tank says finances have been tight for the military, even for operational needs, but external financing has given it some respite.

“All three branches have been working with respected procurement appropriations for their role in fighting terrorists. In general, Pak armed forces have been relying on Coalition Support Fund finances to fuel their war machinery in this regard,” he said.

Former Australian defense attache to Islamabad, Brian Cloughley, said helicopters would be a critical piece of equipment if the budget rises, but a move against the Pakistani Taliban (TTP) could see the money diverted.

“Helicopters, almost certainly, but much is needed for operating costs, which keep increasing. If they go into [North Waziristan], even more troops are going to be needed” he said.

The government has been signaling a potential ground operation for this month against the TTP in North Waziristan since late January.

A possible deal for Chinese-built helicopters is speculated due to comments made by the president during a press conference last week.

Analysts are divided over whether the deal would involve an armed variant of the Mi-17 Hip to help alleviate the transport helicopter shortage, or the WZ-10 helicopter gunship to fulfill Pakistan’s longstanding requirement to replace its AH-1F Cobra gunships.

The military’s needs are many and each service has a long list of equipment requirements.

The Air Force’s modernization plans seem to be in reasonably good shape, and despite a lack of finances has progressed incrementally. They have been adapted, however, and its future inventory now appears to be moving toward a two-tier force of mid-tech JF-17s and high-tech F-16s.

Former pilot and analyst Kaiser Tufail says the reported recent acquisition of surplus F-16s, with more expected, most likely means the end of plans to acquire the Chengdu J-10B/FC-20.

“The FC-20 seems doomed as far as the PAF is concerned. You might hear of some more F-16s in the near future,” he said.

Douglas Barrie, senior fellow for Military Aerospace at the International Institute for Strategic Studies, says the J-10B “would be considerably more expensive than the JF-17, and any procurement would be considerably smaller. Adding a third fighter into the inventory alongside the F-16 and JF-17 would also complicate logistics.”

In contrast to the Air Force, the Navy has a list of big ticket items from new frigates to submarines.

A deal with China for six submarines has been ongoing since 2011.

A senior Pakistani defense official recently confirmed to Defense News that the submarine deal was still set to be signed by the end of the year, but no other details have yet been made public.

With the feasible service lives of the six ex-British Type-21 frigates drawing to an end, the Navy has been looking for replacements. Late last year it was revealed three more Oliver Hazard Perry-class frigates would be acquired by 2016.

However, Pakistan also agreed to a deal for improved F-22P-class frigates with China in 2012, but little more has been heard since then and no deal has been signed.

There is a requirement for up to six Perry-class frigates however, as well as perhaps a larger frigate than the F-22P, such as the Chinese Type-054 class. Recently revealed plans to accelerate the retirement of the US Navy’s frigates could possibly alleviate Pakistan’s surface ship numbers crunch without straining its fragile economy if more can be transferred, but regional politics could get in the way.

“The F-22s will almost certainly stay on the wish list, but if the US would gift some OHPs it would certainly be appreciated and would help the PN to maintain its seamanship standards,” says Cloughley.

Though this would boost the Pak-US relationship, the US also has to consider the reaction in New Delhi.

“There would also be a revival of trust by Pakistan in the US, but Washington has also to think of India. There is the chance that the ultra-nationalist Modi will be the next [Indian] prime minister, and he is very pro-business. The US has to bear this in mind, from the overseas investment point of view,” he said.

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 17 Mar 2014 17:59

I suppose it the acquistion of the Turkish T-155 Pantir 52 Cal by Pakistan that forces the IA get off it's backside and do something about doing something about getting more Desi Bofors 45 and 52 Cal into service.

Until the Pantir came into service, IA enjoyed a superiority in the artillery duels taking place in kashmir.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panter_howitzer

Pakistan: Pakistan Army - 52 in Service. 12 ordered for evaluation in 2007 from Turkey and delivered between 2008-2009. 40 more ordered in 2009 & delivered between 2011-2012. [2] Locally produced under license by Heavy Industries Taxila (HIT). [3][4]

Planeman has this to say about the Bofors Pantir comparison

Despite the bad press from the corruption scandal, the Bofors gun is actually a very good piece of kit and offers mobility advantages over other towed pieces in Pakistani service. Pakistan has recently inducted into service the generally equivalent Turkish made T-155 Panter gun but it has yet to be employed in material quantities. A quick comparison between the Bofors and Panter is however an interesting exercise.

Until the advent of the Panter, the Bofors was by far the most advanced and capable towed piece on the border. It has large stocks of extended range ammunition, is self-mobile and relatively automated for increased crew efficiency. That situation is changing.

Both are modern 155mm pieces with an auxiliary power unit to allow a degree of self-mobility, about 20kph. In both cases the power pack is located forward of the gun mount. The Panter has a significantly longer barrel (52Cal vs 39Cal) providing greater range. In general all artillery pieces can fire various guided and extended range rounds so quoted ranges should be taken with a grain of salt. If the Panter is employed with HE Base-bleed rounds then stated range is 40km, about 10km further than the 39Cal Bofors with similar ammunitions. This would allow Pakistan to station its guns many km further from the front, and for each howitzer battery to cover a wider sector allowing either fewer deployed batteries or for the same strength, greater engagement envelope overlap.

On the other hand the Bofors is significantly lighter and generally more compact, and has a built in ammunition crane. The Bofors’ compact nature suggests that it is easier to maneuver, although the Panter has excellent mobility including in reverse also, but a larger turning circle. Panter is significantly heavier, likely requiring a larger truck (‘prime mover’) and reducing mobility on the smaller tracks. Both feature semi-automatic loading allowing relatively high rates of fire and being easier on the crew. Conclusion: There’s not much in it, both are excellent. FH-77B was the first of this generation of howitzer, but it’s still up there in terms of features and combat reliability. Panter has the better gun and likely better range, but pays some mobility/agility costs.