
Hope BJP leaders don't watch it and sit at home day dreaming.
Rahul Mehta wrote:Its NOT secularism or muslim vote bank. It is investment of Suadi Arabia in Indian media, and also Infosys's business with Arab world.Hari Seldon wrote:An illustrious (new?) entrant to the sekoolaid club...
In 2004, Sonia Gandhi walked across to her neighbour Ramvilas Paswan to strike a deal with the Dalit leader which played havoc with NDA's calculation of a rich harvest in Bihar. In an equally bold reach-out, she put aside acrimony with DMK over Rajiv Gandhi's assassination to clinch a seat-sharing pact which swept Tamil Nadu. She also allowed the party to hitch its wagons with the fledgling TRS, champion of Telangana, for a political pact which helped the party nearly sweep the 42 seats in Andhra Pradesh.
Her success contrasted with the premature hubris with which BJP pushed away allies like DMK literally from its door step. It took away communications portfolio from Paswan, leading him to switch sides and it allowed Congress to walk away with Sharad Pawar of NCP when Atal Bihari Vajpayee was so keen to have him.
Fast forward to 2014, and the role seems to have been reversed. It is BJP which is netting allies of all sizes and stripes, with Congress losing them from a virtual clinch. The crossing over of Paswan to NDA is illustrative of the change. BJP snatched Paswan when he was more eager on Congress. A little flexibility could have thwarted the perception of BJP being the favourite.
Members are blaming the leadership for its fetish for experiments in the thick of a battle and for assigning individuals with few of the skills required to deal with the cold-blooded satraps. "At times, it appears that we don't want allies," a leader wryly commented. It is also realized repairing the damage may become even difficult if the perceptions drastically swings in BJP's favour: something which is already underway.
The growing indication that it could post its best tally has not lulled the BJP into complacency in search for more allies. In Maharashtra, it has picked independent MP Raju Shetty who runs the Shetkari Sangathana. It also readily indulged Shiv Sena's pressure to leave a Rajya Sabha seat for maverick dalit leader Ramdas Athavale.
Wearing a skullcap is the anticipatory bail for future offensesHari Seldon wrote:An illustrious (new?) entrant to the sekoolaid club...
What's up with that number? Ilyas Kashmiri's terror unit was called "313 Brigade"gandharva wrote:313 fidayeens set to hit Indian election
http://vickynanjappa.com/2014/02/26/313 ... more-19547
a) So, you are not expecting blind support? If so, good. If you are expecting blind support, then, I don't see any difference between blind supporters of one party/politician from another.Sanku wrote:johneeG -- asking for a blind, and completely airy fairy whine fest to end is a call for blind support is it ? Either keep bashing up or keep a blind support ? The below is one such examplejohneeG wrote: Sanku saar,
do you mean to say that one must blindly support lotus in whatever they do? Isn't it a good thing that people have their own independent view of what is good and what is bad and then support
a) Gandhi surname is not the only surname in the country. There are several other surnames and they are ruling roost mostly due to the surnames. Or atleast, they get an extended longer rope due to surname. Its not just one dynasty at the top but a pyramid like structure with several dynasties at each stage.Sanku wrote:Yeah, all the national leaders were born with Gandhi surname and went to the top on platter.These so-called national leaders are neither popular with cadre nor can they win elections. They are not so great in their administration either.
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Seriously, you REALLY need introspection here.
Firstly, I don't know what 'TINA' means. I am assuming it means the 'only logical choice'.Sanku wrote:We have to discuss that lotus is good now ? Seriously ? Lets get real, in any place where common sense existed, lotus is TINA. It is only the purest safforn syndrome which dictates that lotus must take agni pariksha while others get a free ride.lotus or any other political party only when they think it stands for the good? Otherwise, what is the difference between supporters of various political parties if they blindly support their respective parties?
'Believing' & 'Knowing' starts from the what qualifies as 'meaningful data point'. How do you come to a conclusion that there is no infighting? When you concede that there are individual ambitions with pulls and pressures, it is logical & normal to envision infighting in such a scenario. But, somehow, you rule out any infighting and ask for some evidence. Unless its a organization that is controlled by a single person/faction, it is natural to have infighting among various factions/persons. You cannot have your cake and eat it too. Either you are saying that its a party which is dictated by one faction/person with no internal democracy or you have to accept that its a party which has an internal democracy which means there is bound to be lot of infighting for top positions.Sanku wrote:Sir ji, I am not into believing, I am into knowing. Lets have meaningful data point, and I will change my mind. So far I dont see any data points which suggest D4 or this or that.For example, you seem to believe that there was no infighting in lotus. On the other hand, across the spectrum, it seems to be an accepted fact that there was infighting(and perhaps still is) in lotus. .
I do see a collection of individuals with individual ambitions working together as a group for mutual goal with pulls and pressure, but infighting -- no .
LinkOn Monday, I met Balraj Madhok, the 90-year-old co-founder of the Bharatiya Jana Sangh at his house in New Rajinder Nagar. The meeting took place a day before the BJP and the Sangh observed the martydom day of Dr Shyama Prasad Mukheree and Madhok appeared very cheerful and fully alert despite his advancing years.
Being the senior most living member of the undivided Sangh Parivar, he still has a lot of fire left in him and he minced no words in criticizing BJP leaders who are trying to dilute the party’s commitment to hindutva. For him like before, hindutva was the only Mantra for the Sangh and that is what people expect out of this party.
Madhok was candid and frank during his meeting and paid rich tributes to Mukherjee who he said was ahead of his times and was singularly responsible for founding the Jana Sangh along with like-minded people. Both Atal Behari Vajpayee and LK Advani were nowhere in the picture and even the RSS had no role to play in founding the Jana Sangh. He said that while preparing the first manifesto of his party, he had incorporated the basic ideas of the Hindu Mahasabha, Arya Samaj and the RSS in the document.
The RSS at that time was confused and was not clear which way things would go. After the ban following the assassination of Mahatma Gandhi, the RSS was looking for protection from some quarters and the Jana Sangh appeared to be one such outfit, which could provide it since it had similar views on many subjects.
Madhok said that it was important to record it that it was Mukherjee and others like him who founded the Jana Sangh and not the RSS, which got associated with it subsequently. In the first elections, the Jana Sangh got little more than three percent of the total vote share and thereby was recognized as a national party by the Election Commission.
Madhok said that those who are questioning the basis of hindutva must understand that it was because of hindutva that India exists in its present form. India is a secular country since it is a predominantly Hindu country. It would not have been secular had it like Pakistan been an Islamic country. This is what needs to be understood by one and all, he emphasized.
Madhok does not care whether anyone agrees with his views or not. He said that for the BJP to come up and counter the Congress, it has to stick to its basic ideology and not harp on values, which the Congress has believed in. The two parties are distinctly different from each other and if there is any confusion within the BJP it is on account of Vajpayee and Advani who have done greater harm to the hindu cause than anybody else.
Madhok is very critical even today of Vajpayee and Advani and has not even a single good word for either of them. “When I criticized Nehru in Parliament in the wake of the Chinese aggression, Vajpayee came up to me and told me that I will never be elected to Lok Sabha again. Acharya Kriplani who was sitting nearby told me that do not take him( Vajpayee) seriously since he is Nehru’s planted man in the opposition”.
Madhok also said that attempts were made to subvert the party’s basic ideology by Vajpayee and some others. They talked about Deen Dayal Upadhyaya’s humanism, which was nothing original but borrowed from the thesis of MN Roy and applied to Sangh politics.
“Advani was a RSS pracharak and subsequently taken into the Working committee by me at Deen Dayal Upadhyaya’s insistence. He used to live in a government accommodation at RK Puram and I asked him in 1967 to contest for the Metropolitan Council from that seat. Two days before the nominations, he came to me and opted out on the ground that there were several villages in the area and victory was not guaranteed. I told him no one’s victory including mine (I was South Delhi Parliamentary nominee) was not guaranteed. But he did not agree and I put up another person. The results came and we all won. Deen Dayalji told to nominate Advani to the Metropolitan Council (there were five nominated seats) and make him the Chief Executive Councillor. I declined to make him the CEC since he had not contested. But under RSS pressure I got him nominated and made him the Chairman of the Metropolitan Council and made Vijay Kumar Malhotra as the CEC.”
Madhok who has written several books believes that Deen Dayal Upadhdya was murdered as a part of a well-planed conspiracy and some top Jana Sangh leaders of that time could have had a hand in his killing. He also said that Shyama Prasad Mukherjee earlier did not die a natural death as is claimed by many people. These two deaths changed the destiny of the Jana Sangh and it got into wrong hands.
Madhok also spoke about how he was implicated in a breach of discipline case by Advani at the Kanpur session after he himself leaked out confidential information to the media but blamed him for the leakage. Similar tactics were employed at the recent BJP National Executive meeting also when some secret letters were similarly leaked. Madhok says that Vajpayee, Advani, Nanaji Deshmukh and KR Malkani did incalculable harm to the Jana Sangh cause.
Madhok also recalled how Indira Gandhi had rejected the demand for banning one of his books. It was probably at Sanjay Gandhi’s instance.
“She knew that I had said a lot of harsh things about her but she sent a senior officer to me to collect the copies of my book. Later she sent word that she liked it and she wanted me to implement some thoughts. When I asked her emissary how would I do that, he said that she wanted me to join her ministry. This is after she returned to power in 1980. I was reluctant and than I got a feeler that Sanjay Gandhi wanted to see me. The meeting was being fixed at an undisclosed place for June 23 but he died that morning in the plane crash. Looking back, I should have taken Indiraji’s offer seriously. I will at some point also like to meet Sanjay’s son, Varun Gandhi.”
Madhok lives with his two daughters after having lost his wife some years ago.
KJoishy wrote: Why is it that I ALWAYS see low-esteemed Hindus wearing Islamic caps and other attire, but NEVER see a Muslim fellow trying to make nice with Hindus by applying tilak on his forehead?
Yep, this belief or claim that Hindhuism teaches all religions are equally valid & worthy of respect seems to be source of lot of confusion, distortion and mischief. Unfortunately, many of the people who claim to speak on behalf of Hindhuism also reinforce this claim or belief. Even RSS or Modi seem to propound that Hindhus believe all religions to be equally valid.Prem Kumar wrote:KJoishy wrote: Why is it that I ALWAYS see low-esteemed Hindus wearing Islamic caps and other attire, but NEVER see a Muslim fellow trying to make nice with Hindus by applying tilak on his forehead?
Good point. Perhaps the same reason that its always Hindus who claim that all religions are equal, valid & worthy of respect. You dont ever see a Christian or Muslim making that statement
Can Sakhaar Karkhanas be hit financially without repercussions on common Marathi manoos?Atri wrote:
this lobby was broken by BT in urban MH - that is his greatest legacy. Gopinath Munde shows similar promise and is trying to excel it in rural MH in the heartland of 96-clan elite-sugar cooperative owing marathas (not the mango abdul 96-clanner maratha who is like any other norma bloke, who tills the land, works hard and earns bread). it is a very intricate operation to perform. BJP has to stay in power in delhi for at least 10 years to subvert this deeply entrenched system and convert it.
and even if it is converted, it will remain in hands of same ppl.
Prem Kumar wrote:KJoishy wrote: Why is it that I ALWAYS see low-esteemed Hindus wearing Islamic caps and other attire, but NEVER see a Muslim fellow trying to make nice with Hindus by applying tilak on his forehead?
Good point. Perhaps the same reason that its always Hindus who claim that all religions are equal, valid & worthy of respect. You dont ever see a Christian or Muslim making that statement
Very well said bro. This has to be the rock bed of the next 50 years for hindus to effectively convert muslims and x-tians back to hindusim. Go ahead and say, that you have been duped by dear brother. I will take the responsibility to showing you light and help him chant the Gita.sunnyP wrote: I don't know why Hindus keep peddling this line. Hinduism actually states the opposite - it very clearly differentiates between dharma and adharma therefore how can people say that ALL religions are good/equal? I've never understood this ideology.
There are many paths to God however that does not equal all religions are good. Anyway, sorry for going off topic.
See this:sunnyP wrote:I don't know why Hindus keep peddling this line. Hinduism actually states the opposite - it very clearly differentiates between dharma and adharma therefore how can people say that ALL religions are good/equal? I've never understood this ideology.
There are many paths to God however that does not equal all religions are good. Anyway, sorry for going off topic.
Nothing wrong in 96-clan Marathas retaining power, as long as they support the right cause. The jati-system appears evil because of lack of opportunities. Give an organic all-round growth and increasing pie makes everyone happy. There is a huge groundswell for Modi in this social-group. They will vote along their traditional voting lines, alright. But Munde and Modi has made serious dents in their perception towards BJP which was considered too "brahminical party". as the MH becomes more and more urbanized. this class will shift towards BJP.panduranghari wrote:Can Sakhaar Karkhanas be hit financially without repercussions on common Marathi manoos?Atri wrote:
this lobby was broken by BT in urban MH - that is his greatest legacy. Gopinath Munde shows similar promise and is trying to excel it in rural MH in the heartland of 96-clan elite-sugar cooperative owing marathas (not the mango abdul 96-clanner maratha who is like any other norma bloke, who tills the land, works hard and earns bread). it is a very intricate operation to perform. BJP has to stay in power in delhi for at least 10 years to subvert this deeply entrenched system and convert it.
and even if it is converted, it will remain in hands of same ppl.
And even if they stay in power for 10 years what will they do? Or what can they do?
Or should Brahmins who left villages and moved to cities, should move back to villages and re-establish their base?
I fail to see why you expect me to expect blind support ? However blind supporters are not the same, this statement is a lot like saying, a devout Hindu == a devout XYZ of abhramic religion.johneeG wrote:a) So, you are not expecting blind support? If so, good. If you are expecting blind support, then, I don't see any difference between blind supporters of one party/politician from another.Sanku wrote: johneeG -- asking for a blind, and completely airy fairy whine fest to end is a call for blind support is it ? Either keep bashing up or keep a blind support ? The below is one such example
No they are statements on the current criticism based on the fact that non one has showed remote correspondence between their opinion and real life activities. These "criticism" are all completely unfounded, and saying that they are airy fairy was an attempt to challenge this behaviour.b) 'airy fairy whine fest', 'bashing up', ...etc are all your opinions of others criticisms
It is not necessary for me to have biases on every issue. I might not be god and free from biases everywhere, but at least on this topic, you would be better off discussing available factoids, rather than who has which biases.The only thing that I was pointing out is that everyone has their own bias.
This is precisely the sort of criticism that I have issue with. Please be specific and point which of the national leaders are there due to surnames.a) Gandhi surname is not the only surname in the country. There are several other surnames...
Oh so now it is due to decades back work -- clearly all the karyakarta of BJP are idiots, lacking your insights ?b) Most of the so-called national leaders are either due to their surnames or past laurels(decades back work).
Because my dear friend, we DONT HAVE THE LUXURY of pages and pages of debates -- the choice is here and now, and the choice has to be made, the choice is also clear.Sanku wrote: No, it is not purest saffron syndrome or any such thing. And yes, the merits & demerits of lotus have to be discussed just as all other parties get discussed. I don't know why you want to avoid any criticism of lotus.
sunnyP wrote:
There are many paths to God however that does not equal all religions are good.
Thanks for a wonderful rejoinder.Atri wrote:
Know that MH is the only ideological fountainhead remaining among Hindus. Brahmin friends can help resuscitate that and make it lively again. I've always told this to my brahmin acquaintances - they owe it to dharma for their complacency in past 7-8 decades. If they can do that, they would have repaid their debt to our maataa and then could claim their right on Moksha.
Gardish mein hain taare! (Very bad times)vic wrote:TRS has shown the middle finger to Kongress and going alone in Telegana. What sort of idiots are ruining congress nowdays?
Another potential NDA constituent!vic wrote:TRS has shown the middle finger to Kongress and going alone in Telegana. What sort of idiots are ruining congress nowdays?
ABP News @abpnewstv 10mmuraliravi wrote:CSDS Poll tracker leak
Maharashtra: NDA 23-29, UPA 16-22 Other (NDA allies) 1-5
Their previous tracker (in Jan) for MH was NDA 25-33, UPA 12-20. So looks like a dip. The vote shares will tell the real story
its a master class, if TRS + cong means anti cong votes will consolidate to TDP or BJP in telangana - these two parties will never join up with cong.Ashok Sarraff wrote:Another potential NDA constituent!vic wrote:TRS has shown the middle finger to Kongress and going alone in Telegana. What sort of idiots are ruining congress nowdays?
Yes Sir, Gossipguru and Sunday Guardian carried this scoop a while back. So it is official indeed now. Good news. So i guess this should compensate for the slight dip NDA has in this tracker. Rumor is that the BJP seats are intact, it is shiv sena that is taking a beating. In the last 2 months, a lot of people have left sena. MNS staying away from LS is good news for SS.RajeshA wrote:ABP News @abpnewstv 10mmuraliravi wrote:CSDS Poll tracker leak
Maharashtra: NDA 23-29, UPA 16-22 Other (NDA allies) 1-5
Their previous tracker (in Jan) for MH was NDA 25-33, UPA 12-20. So looks like a dip. The vote shares will tell the real story
Raj Thackeray's Maharashtra Navnirman Sena (MNS) may not contest Lok Sabha polls.
The TRS can always be added to NDA also later unless TRS needs congress support in T's vidhan sabha.Virupaksha wrote: its a master class, if TRS + cong means anti cong votes will consolidate to TDP or BJP in telangana - these two parties will never join up with cong.
cong seperate, TRS seperate means anti cong votes go to TRS. say among 15 seats, the split is 5-10, does it matter when those 10 seats are always up for sale, so can always be added to cong.
fanne sir, wht i posted was leaks. they shd be broadcasting it live in another 1-2 hrs. will post it soonfanne wrote:please do post CSDS details when available!!