Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 03 Mar 2014 17:35

Btw I heard and skipped Modi speach in Mujaffarpur, not one of his best in my very humble opinion.

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 03 Mar 2014 17:50

fanne wrote:Btw I heard and skipped Modi speach in Mujaffarpur, not one of his best in my very humble opinion.

I think you are expecting a new idea every few days. OTOH BJP brass is interested in taking a few simple but effective messages out to the widest possible audience.

It is a case of different priorities. I too have stopped listening to NaMo speeches. I am yet to transition into campaign mode, when I expect to again take a hiatus from BRF.

If the planned 400 Cr Rupee campaign crescendo is for real (over and above the rallies), then this is the lull before the storm.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 03 Mar 2014 18:27

As per my sources(if at all other than friends teetar brf and www), NaMo is doing his best to channelise anticongi anger into a pro BJP wave. He is also trying himself to be an acceptable alternative to current die nasty to a wider section of audience.
Hence extensive touring to know the pulse of people, activating moribund BJP offices in various parts of the country.
each karyakarta is given a task to fulfill during these mega rallies to test their competence and their worth.
In the process he has been able to stitcch some allies due to the efforts of him/core advisers and his supporters.
This stands in good augur as during election mode this will be amplified as congis and aap are along with its allies are going bankrupt of ideas with only sickularism to show for all their rule.
NaMo has successfully till now turned their strenght into weakness by not taking the bait of sickularism.

Once acceptability of his choice comes in then there will be a blitzkreig during election mode.
Once elections are announced then it will surely be upped x10 or more times.

expect 3D holohgrapic meetings of NaMo in multiple places. he has the right to use in India this year. No other party can use it.
This will spook anti NaMo forces.
Also the extensive touring has informed NaMo where to use it and how to use it effectively.

This is a costly enetrprise but acceptable for India at the current juncture.( may cost a few 10-100 crores overall)

---------------------------------------------------------
Anti NaMo forces of course are waiting with bated breath for NaMo and his team to make some mistakes.
This is like- terrorists need only one of the numerous chances to wreak havoc whereas law enforcement need to be perfect all the time.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 03 Mar 2014 18:35

Neela wrote:
When I was writing about Madhu Trehan, that exact same incident was running in my mind - she stood up and asked that question. I agree. But that is one side of her.
I would urge you to watch Newslaundry videos on Youtube - especially the ones with Barkha Dutt and Karan Thapar. She is an intelligent lady who questions media ethics and cuts peo[ple like Barkha and Karan Thapar down to size. She has a leftist slant , is bitten by the secularism bug - sure, but dont take her for a sellout is what I am saying.

neelaji with these elite well connected types nothing is what it seems. she took on burkha and karan in all probability for personal reasons. for instance, did you know that she has animus against karan thapar because of this article: http://www.hindustantimes.com/news-feed ... 78932.aspx
note how she basically gives a clean chit to tehelkas dodgy behavior and karan thapar (of all people) points it out, basically KT too has his own axes to grind.
nobody doubts her intelligence, problem is their ideology leads their behavior viz ethics to be pretty dodgy and they tend to surround themselves with people who think like them...cocooned from alternative viewpoints and rich/comfortable enough to ignore them as well. would the average BRFite for instance get along like a house on fire, with the oh so progressive/self righteous crowd that these folks count as ttheir close friends.. i doubt it.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 03 Mar 2014 18:37

negi wrote:Even if Nm becomes the PM he will have to spend first 2-3 years cleaning up the potty of Chidambaram and MMS , the thins will only stabilize by his first term end and it would be time for next general elections. If he manages to keep a tab on fiscal deficit and roll back some of the idiotic policies of current chootiy@nanadans that itself will be a big step.

+1

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 03 Mar 2014 18:52

SSharma: All questions are good, especially if it makes the diamond shine brighter. Did you watch Uma Bharati's speech in Lucknow? She, twice, pleaded to the crowd to look at her instead of gawking at the helicopter in the air bringing in Modi. She even chided them about them having seen helicopters before in life, and that Modi would be on the stage in a few minutes.

Call it hype or whatever, there is a curiosity in people. And all kudos for BJP in improving their logistics department. They do arrange buses and trains to bring people from other parts of a state. Moving a lakh of people even within UP and Bihar is a Herculean task, if your suspicion is true then I am awed onlee.

Ultimtely votes matter.

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 03 Mar 2014 18:54

I will be happy if he can issue instructions and make internal policies to get the surfeit of projects lying in arbitration and courts. The confidence in Infrastructure Sector is long gone. They will need a team to handle this. Just a minister or two state ranks will not be enough. A team of good babus in place properly followed-up by a Neta appropriately high up in the hierarchy.

Without Infrastructure sector focus no amount of planning and no amount of law making will help. Flip side would be inflation.

Also rid us of the Land Acquisition & Company law mess. Also get in a sensible GST, bahut ho gaya time pass.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 03 Mar 2014 19:03

johneeG wrote: I think the stage for internal sabotage may have been over. Now, the only things that can stop the TsuNaMo is assassination or e-v-m. Thats why its important that all the leaders should take care of their security.

I agree. So much water has flown under bridge, Advani should just take a dignified sanyasam. Congress still can rely on its Dirty Tricks Department, and maybe some regional parties where Modi is still not as desired as elsewhere.

By the way, can an OCI be a Minister? If not, I nominate Rajiv Malhotra as a consultant to the Ministry. Those who agree, say 'aye'

Comer · Post by **Comer** » 03 Mar 2014 19:18

This may not be about Madhu Trehan per se, but the organisation she represents. News Laundry may claim to be neutral with regards to media criticism but they cannot claim neutrality when the backer(s) of News Laundry are also backer(s) of AAP. Madhu Trehan doesn't know there is a conflict of interest right there? And they go ahead and tie up with NDTV. Can they claim media neutrality after this? Is the mission of stopping Modi so great that are they willing to tarnish the brand image of News Laundry(whatever it was worth)?
<Conspirary Theory>
Am sure NaMo has a team which is responsible to vet/filter the people approaching him. If anybody can google/search twitter for information on NL, that too not original research( folks like mediacrooks have already done it), how did the team responsible miss it? I would like to imagine that NaMo used this incident to find out the reliability of the people responsible for it.

</Conspiracy Theory>
I don't why BJP/NaMo needs somebody to help them in web events. Atleast TV is understandable, you have to depend on them. It is better to avoid these new fangled hangouts business till the elections.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 03 Mar 2014 19:54

SwamyG wrote:
johneeG wrote: I think the stage for internal sabotage may have been over. Now, the only things that can stop the TsuNaMo is assassination or e-v-m. Thats why its important that all the leaders should take care of their security.
I agree. So much water has flown under bridge, Advani should just take a dignified sanyasam. Congress still can rely on its Dirty Tricks Department, and maybe some regional parties where Modi is still not as desired as elsewhere.

By the way, can an OCI be a Minister? If not, I nominate Rajiv Malhotra as a consultant to the Ministry. Those who agree, say 'aye'

ministers are also MP's. there's a 6month window for which a non-MP can hold on to the post but that's it.

member_28468 · Post by **member_28468** » 03 Mar 2014 19:55

wow this topic is so active

i have a noob question.

i follow namoji's rallies when they are telecasted on news channels, the crowd is always huge, and then there are reports that bjp booked x number of trains/buses to assist in transportation.

i was wondering if the crowd in the rallies is local people with a few of his die hard supporters joining in
or is it a set crowd of say 2-3lac that follows him everywhere and then some locals join in

the crowd always seems very responsive, like they have seen it all before and answer on cue

dear sir i will vote first time in GE and i attended modi rally in merrut by riding my own bike for 30km in huge traffic.He has genuine pepole in his rally who just want to see him if some one let me know how to put images i can show you all.

people are standing on electric pillars

to watch him and he has to request them to came down this is NAMO power.

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 03 Mar 2014 20:19

vishant chaudhary wrote:...dear sir i will vote first time in GE and i attended modi rally in merrut by riding my own bike for 30km in huge traffic.He has genuine pepole in his rally who just want to see him if some one let me know how to put images i can show you all.
...

Not a expert, but you can use free image hosting sites like http://postimage.org/(no membership required) or Yahoo flicker, Google picasa/drive(?) etc. Always good to have first hand info. Thanks.

gandharva · Post by **gandharva** » 03 Mar 2014 20:40

DLF granddaughter will marry Azad son

http://www.sunday-guardian.com/buzzword ... y-azad-son

It's all one big incestous club. If one goes by Timesnow, Damagji has shown middle finger to Presient of India and IB. Arnab is waving letter from POI and IB objecting to giving go ahead to the project.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 03 Mar 2014 20:41

err johneeG, you are asking him to provide details about a future event that by definition is not wholly under his control. it's like asking a metereologist to predict exact wind speed all over India on 16th december 2014. it is simply not possible to predict it. and anyone doing it is either a liar or an idiot. and those asking are simply creating a deliberate strawman to knock down.
I am sure you known enough economics to know that promising to keep inflation low is the best that one can do, giving out exact figures is akin to selling snake-oil. now, only you know (tho' I have a guess) why you want modi to start selling snake-oil so badly.

I called it rahulmehtatis for a reason, the symptoms are pseudo-logic and a faux concern for commons.

p.s. I get it, you hate modi's guts after AP bifurcation. it's ok, you are welcome to do that openly on BRF. but there's no need to think up failings that insult both your and our intelligence.

member_28468 · Post by **member_28468** » 03 Mar 2014 20:44

here it is look at the some boys do they look like political karyakarta (cadre).

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 03 Mar 2014 21:04

Rahul M wrote:
SwamyG wrote: By the way, can an OCI be a Minister? If not, I nominate Rajiv Malhotra as a consultant to the Ministry. Those who agree, say 'aye'
ministers are also MP's. there's a 6month window for which a non-MP can hold on to the post but that's it.

In that case maybe an extra-constitutional body like National Advisory Council for Cultural Affairs

. We have precedence no

OT..
BTW, regarding the 'usage of my word desperation' in the other dhaaga, did you see Arnab's 'expose' regarding the batteries? Armed Forces leaders could be deeply frustrated at some of the political decisions, and them being "apolitical" cannot really say anything out in the open. And I do not hold any institution in total reverence, including the Armed forces. To me that whole episode is political in nature.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 03 Mar 2014 21:06

today I was talking to a guy from bihar who lives and works in kolkata. he was telling me that his left/TMC friends were shocked to see DH road blocked by vehicles going to that meet, very few of which were organised by party workers.
"many educated people attended" were his exact words, the corollary being this class do not usually attend political rallies.

swamy saar, w/o this elaboration, that was a *very* misleading word to use in the circumstances.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 03 Mar 2014 21:16

[Last post on this OT]
Saar, it is political resignation, I do not think it is a case of moral responsibility at all. He just could not fix the plague. That is how I consider it. Some politicians and some Armed Forces individuals are corrupt, no institution including the Navy is free of corrupt/greedy folks. Else we would not see all the scams that have hounded institutions. Sometimes, a helpless leader at the top has to resign - as a desperation. Or cling on to the seat like MMS.
[/Last post on this OT]

gandharva · Post by **gandharva** » 03 Mar 2014 21:20

gandharva · Post by **gandharva** » 03 Mar 2014 21:28

"Dynasty Dogs" like this Srikumar shoul be made an example for the crime of barking for Dynasty. It wasn't done during ABV rule.

Court dismisses defamation plea of ex-IPS officer against Modi

A Delhi court on Monday dismissed a criminal defamation complaint filed by former IPS officer R.B. Sreekumar against Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi, BJP president Rajnath Singh and two others for allegedly launching a malicious campaign against him in connection with the 1994 ISRO spying case.

Metropolitan Magistrate Akash Jain dismissed Mr. Sreekumar’s complaint, saying it seems that he was “not willing” and interested in pursuing it.

The court observed this when neither Mr. Sreekumar nor his counsel appeared before it for hearing on the complaint.

“Perusal of record shows none has appeared for the complainant (Sreekumar) on the last dates of hearing... it appears that complainant is not willing or interested to pursue the complaint,” the magistrate said, adding, “The application is dismissed.”

The court’s order came as Mr. Sreekumar and his counsel did not appear before it for the hearing despite repeated calls in the morning as well as in the post lunch session of the court.

Besides Mr. Modi and Mr. Singh, Mr. Sreekumar had also named BJP spokesperson Meenakshi Lekhi and Nambi Narayanan, a retired scientist of Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre (VSSC), as accused in his complaint.

Earlier, Mr. Sreekumar’s counsel had alleged in the court that his client was defamed by the press statement issued by Mr. Lekhi in which the former Director General of Gujarat Police was called a “traitor”.

Mr. Sreekumar’s counsel had claimed that the former IPS officer was “nailed” in TV interviews by BJP leaders, who gave separate statements against him, and he was even called “anti-national”.

“I (Sreekumar) am specifically being named as traitor in the press statement issued by Mr. Lekhi. This is the party’s statement as being the party’s national spokesperson, Mr. Lekhi is speaking on behalf of the party,” he had said.

In his complaint, Mr. Sreekumar had alleged that a conspiracy was hatched and on November 7 last year, Mr. Lekhi gave statements harming his reputation “by digging out an old closed case of 1994 related to espionage affecting the national interests of the country”.

http://m.thehindu.com/news/national/cou ... 46328.ece/

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 03 Mar 2014 21:48

fanne wrote:Btw I heard and skipped Modi speach in Mujaffarpur, not one of his best in my very humble opinion.

Don't worry. Even a Player like Sachin didn't score a century in every match that he played. Namo is only human. He is going to make mistakes. On days he will be off color. Regardless of all of that, we should support him.

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 03 Mar 2014 22:21

Rahul M wrote:err johneeG, you are asking him to provide details about a future event that by definition is not wholly under his control. it's like asking a metereologist to predict exact wind speed all over India on 16th december 2014. it is simply not possible to predict it. and anyone doing it is either a liar or an idiot. and those asking are simply creating a deliberate strawman to knock down.
I am sure you known enough economics to know that promising to keep inflation low is the best that one can do, giving out exact figures is akin to selling snake-oil. now, only you know (tho' I have a guess) why you want modi to start selling snake-oil so badly.

I called it rahulmehtatis for a reason, the symptoms are pseudo-logic and a faux concern for commons.

p.s. I get it, you hate modi's guts after AP bifurcation. it's ok, you are welcome to do that openly on BRF. but there's no need to think up failings that insult both your and our intelligence.

Saar,
I am saying that I am not sure what is the exact stand of NaMo on inflation. I am not asking him to promise anything. I just want to be clear what is the stand. NaMo is attacking the kongis on inflation, right? Does that mean the inflation needs to go? Does that mean NaMo will curb inflation? Why all this vague ambiguity? I thought maybe I missed out on the part where he directly said something like,"If we come to power, we will reduce the prices of X". If there is no such promise, then well, I just want to be clear that there is no such promise. I am not asking him to make that promise. I just don't want to assume anything. So, I am asking before assuming anything.

NaMo has said that he has given recommendations to reduce inflation which were not implemented by PM. I had hoped that maybe someone else on BRF might know what these recommendations were.

I googled for that, but instead I got this article.

Inflation not a major issue for Congress: Narendra Modi
PTI Nov 30, 2013, 04.21PM IST

NEW DELHI: Attacking Congress Government for failing to control rising prices, Narendra Modi alleged that the government lacked the intention to address the issue and alleged that its leaders were running away from accountability.

"Though inflation is the biggest problem today, Congress does not think so...You tell me, is inflation not one of the biggest problems?," the BJP's prime ministerial candidate said at an election rally here.

Modi said price rise was under control during non-Congress rule like NDA and Janata Party governments.

"When Atal Behari Vajpayee was in power, was there price rise? No. Price was in control during the Morarjee Desai period also," Modi said.

Sharpening his criticism against the ruling party, Modi said the Congress wants answers from Gujarat for every issues affecting people here.

"Ye fashion ho gaya hai, Chunav Delhi aur Rajasthan mein hai, lekin jawab Gujarat ki sarkaar se maang rahe hain. (It's become fashionable, there are elections in Delhi and Rajasthan, but they want Modi to answer questions on Gujarat).

He further said Congress is afraid of facing people and it has lost the people's faith.

Obliquely referring to the snooping scandal involving illegal surveillance of a woman, Modi said Congress has done it earlier during the Gujarat elections without any success.

"They tried every trick to discredit me. But Gujarati people have defeated those attempts. Despite allegations that Congress made through Facebook and Twitter, people of Gujarat gave a befitting reply," he said.

The venue of the BJP election meeting was Shahadara in East Delhi, an area largely inhabitated by migrants from Bihar and other states.

"If Bihar and UP were developed in the last 60 years, would people leave their family and come to Delhi for work? he asked in a bid to connect with migrants.

"Migrants from Odisha, Bihar, Andhra Pradesh are also in Surat and the city was awarded for best maintained city," he said, adding Congress government does not have the intention to do anything for them.

Taking a dig at the top leadership of the Congress, Modi said, "Our PM is a big economist. We never questioned that. Finance Minister is also very educated. We never challenged that."

"A top ranking Minister in the central government, who considers himself to be intelligent enough thinks he has got all the brains in the world and that the others are brainless."

"The same Minister said prices are rising because poor are eating two vegetables now. Tell me, are prices rising due to this?" he asked.

Promising good governance, Modi said "In Gujarat we have started concept of One Day Governance. Why cannot this concept be replicated in Delhi?"

"At the root of all the problems is bad governance. Congress is not concerned with governance at all," Modi said.

Stating that power is being provided at low tariff in Gujarat, Modi said "Congress claims that power is more expensive in Gujarat than in Delhi. This is false."

Referring to BJP Chief Ministerial candidate Harsh Vardhan, he said, "We promise good governance and we are presenting an honourable person as our CM candidate."

Raking up the Commonwealth Games issue, he said "CWG was an opportunity to enhance our brand. Forget stealing money, they lost an opportunity to project Delhi to the world."

He said Congress has lost the people's faith.

Kongis get attacked on inflation issue. But, he has side-stepped giving any assurances on inflation. If NaMo is not going to bring down inflation, then why bring up inflation issue at all?

It seems to me that NaMo has not even promised keeping the inflation low. All that he is saying is that historically inflation was low when NDA ruled. He is citing track record. He is not giving any promise for the future.

As for pseudo-logic, faux-concern, Rahul-mehtaitis, AP:
No, I don't hate Modi or his guts. Infact, I like him. But, after AP division, I personally do not want to trust any party/politician blindly. Even before that I didn't trust anyone blindly, but I guess now I am bit more cynical. So, all I am asking for is clarity on this issue and other issues.

The simple question is: What is NaMo's stand on inflation?
Will he control inflation?
If so, which products are likely to see reduction in prices?
Petrol & Gas prices seem to be the root cause for inflation, will NaMo act on them?
Or will NaMo say that prices of Petrol & Gas may or may not be reduced?

For example, NaMo has clearly said that black money will be brought from tax havens. Thats a clear cut promise. If it were time bound, it would have been better.

If NaMo can clearly say that he will bring black money back, then he can also say that he will control/reduce inflation. If he thinks that inflation is unpredictable and cannot be promised. Then, he should say so. All I am saying is that whatever the stand is, lets be clear on that.

Similarly, what is the common minimum program of the pre-poll alliances that are being formed?

There are issues like FDI in retail, taxes, ...etc. Is NaMo going to give any clear-cut assurances on these issues? So far, all these important issues have been kept ambiguous. For lotus & NaMo, its a good strategy to keep things vague because it allows them flexibility. But, its a bad strategy for voters(for supporters and opposers). Its not a question of whether NaMo supports or opposes a particular issue. But, whatever that stand, if it is clearly spelled out, people can then make their choices based on that knowledge.

The reason these questions are being asked of NaMo is that I expect him to get to power in these elections and I have expectations from him in general. I don't have any expectations of most other political parties, so I don't bother with them.

Is it important to have trustworthy leadership? Yes.
Is saying,"trust us, we will do it" the answer to all the issues? No.

For ex: people who support FDI in retail and those who oppose it, both may vote for NaMo thinking that he thinks like them. If the stand is clearly spelled out, then people can make their choice.

Should NaMo be voted despite everything else in this election?
I think, yes.

Is NaMo the best of all the choices available in this election?
Yes, in my humble opinion.

Should people blindly trust NaMo?
I think, no.

Should there be greater clarity on various issues concerning various political parties/politicians?
I think, yes.

But, I am tending to agree with Rahul Mehta on one aspect, people seem to be reluctant to ask politicians/parties to spell it out clearly without ambiguity(and if possible, time bound) on various issues. People seem to vote based on expectations and instincts rather than clear cut promises. And then, people complain if those expectations are not met. I happen to behave in that fashion in the past(not just on AP issue) and perhaps, I am likely to behave in that fashion even in future. But, atleast, I'll try to avoid the situation.

Thats my opinion. If you think its faux-concern or pseudo-logic, thats your opinion. I guess one has to agree to disagree.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 03 Mar 2014 22:34

Rahul M wrote:I am sure you known enough economics to know that promising to keep inflation low is the best that one can do, giving out exact figures is akin to selling snake-oil. now, only you know (tho' I have a guess) why you want modi to start selling snake-oil so badly.

I called it rahulmehtatis for a reason, the symptoms are pseudo-logic and a faux concern for commons.

p.s. I get it, you hate modi's guts after AP bifurcation. it's ok, you are welcome to do that openly on BRF. but there's no need to think up failings that insult both your and our intelligence.

Rahul M garu,
You are making your points , but how come you felt the need to condescend a bunch of people while making them ?

>"Rahulmehtatis" == "faux concern to commons" , among other things.
>"Know" you "hate Modi's guts" for AP division so "you think up failings".

Pliss to elaborate more on above pearls even if in OT thread.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 03 Mar 2014 22:36

@johneeG

It is Economics101. Assuming you are not talking of Kejriwal type reduction of prices where Govt reduces prices by dictat and the economy goes into a spiral leading to further inflation you need to ask why is inflation taking place. If you arbitrarily increase money circulation e.g. through various dole schemes and if demand outstrips supply becoz you are unable or unwilling to increase economic activity to match the demand or if you are unable to balance your books i.e. you have both CAD and budget deficit at unsustainable levels then you will have inflation. In case of UPA2 we have all three so the persistent inflation. Ultimately it boils down to governance or lack of it which has been his main theme. He feels that if governance improves all three problems will be tackled and will tame inflation. That is the gist.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 03 Mar 2014 22:54

A> Kongis get attacked on inflation issue. But, he has side-stepped giving any assurances on inflation.

B> If NaMo is not going to bring down inflation, then why bring up inflation issue at all?

err janab, I hope you see the couple of sentences for what it is, a classic bait and switch.

please let us know how A implies B ? isn't it obvious that someone criticizing the govt for runaway inflation is implicitly saying he will not do the same ? does every single point need to be spelled out ? might be so in a court, as a political speech that would be seriously yawn inducing.

as I pointed out in my example, does a math graduate need to compute every possible sum under the sun (an utterly futile and needless to say endless proposition) to prove he can do addition ?

=============
Lilo ji, RM's POV at the end of the day is not in favour of 'commons' it's just knee-jerk opposition to anything notRM. (IMVVHO and all that). since he is a public figure he is open to criticism as well.

johnee ji's view of modi in the aftermath of AP bifurcation is also a matter of open record. I have also read enough of his posts to know his last posts deviate far from his usual standards. my post was simply an assurance (as a BRF mod) that there was no need to hide his feelings in the garb of something else.

in a nutshell, I stated some facts and my opinions are based on those facts. clearly, any condescension you perceive is entirely imagined.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 03 Mar 2014 23:12

Re: inflation, the simplest way to address it is to build infrastructure. Faster movement of goods, better electricity and water supply alone will have significant multipliers. That infrastructure spending in the early 2000s gave us years of historically low inflation. Anyone remember the low EMIs of the mid-2000s ? Money was cheap and prices stable because the new roadbuilding and electricity generation increased supply. We are fundamentally a supply-starved economy. Don't make the mistake of confusing our situation with the west - their problem is the diametric opposite - too much supply and lack of aggregate demand. We have no shortage of demand; we lack supply. Programs like NREGA, instead of focussing on supply by improving infrastructure, just added to wage growth and demand and worsened inflation instead.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 03 Mar 2014 23:49

"Faux concern for commons"

Every one has faith in his own beliefs surely one can't single out RM bhai for that. Stubbornness can also be viewed as tenacity.
My issue was precisely your wording "Faux concern for commons" - you imply that his stubbornness to stick to his own beliefs is ultimately for his own ego's sake and not out of any real concern for commons. OK .
But only if you can vouch that rest of posters in brf do it for the greater good (of Bharat, the commons, Dharma and whatnot) as opposed to their own egocentric beliefs . Unless you extend the same benefit of doubt to RM that you implicitly extend to other patriotics here concerned with plight of commons , you are only singling individuals.
Also I don't get this "personal criticism ok as he is public personality" thing - you are the second mod singling using this stand http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 3#p1549403 (not sure if JeM saar said it in his Mod capacity though). Instead of repeatedly painting targets on back - i suggest you to formalise this special treatment to public personalities through a rule change then. I will stop complaining.

"Know" you "hate Modi's guts" for AP division so "you think up failings"
I too read Johnee G garus posts in the aftermath of AP division. I didn't notice any "viscera" level "hatred" going upto the guts - as if hating the very core of a persons being levels of "hatred" in his reactions .Infact iam not sure if those reactions can be categorised as hatred. He as sizeable few here was holding BJP accountable to its duties as the principal opposition and obviously saw Modi to represent the party. Also I didn't notice any childishness in Johnee g garu in his long posting history to "think up modis failings" just to get back at Modi for the supposed visceratic hatered for his being. So what are the facts here?

In light of above your "advice" as a mod to "not hide takleef" and let it out openly IS in fact condescending .
Maybe be I am butting in here - but if such advice is given to me I will say no thank you.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 04 Mar 2014 00:02

public figures have always been open to criticism from members beyond just their statements. if you claim this is something new I am sure I can find enough instances where you yourself broke this 'rule'.

>> but if such advice is given to me I will say no thank you.
since the advice was not in fact addressed to you why don't you do just that and kindly shut up about it ?
trust me, I made that post because I genuinely felt such simplistic arguments were beneath him. I don't hold everyone to that standard, so you have nothing to fear.

p.s. enough about this here. plz continue in forum feedback or OT thread.

gandharva · Post by **gandharva** » 04 Mar 2014 00:08

Congress targets Narendra Modi after its youth wing sweeps Gujarat university polls

Congress students' wing, the National Students' Union of India (NSUI) won six out of eight seats in Gujarat University polls, while the BJP's student wing Akhil Bharatiya Vidyarthi Parishad (ABVP) managed to win two seats.

http://www.ndtv.com/elections/article/e ... lls-490890

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 04 Mar 2014 00:31

vishant chaudhary wrote:here it is look at the some boys do they look like political karyakarta (cadre).

[img][img]http://s27.postimg.org/wkdn6zsb3/20140202_123808.jpg[/img][/img]

[img][img]http://s27.postimg.org/fikt4wdfz/20140202_141933.jpg[/img][/img]

[img][img]http://s27.postimg.org/cyp6aspvz/20140202_141948.jpg[/img][/img]

you have the img brackets messed up (you have 2 pairs, remove one pair), image not showing on page

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 04 Mar 2014 00:34

what are we looking in these photos?

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 04 Mar 2014 00:37

Lilo:
Pardon me from jumping in an issue that you sought elaboration from some one else. After the AP bifurcation, I did see an element of takleff/disappointment from some BRFites who stood for an united AP - towards BJP and Modi. It was really open so to say. I understand it is an emotional issue, so I thought time will heal. The switch/takleef OR the messaging was easy to observe.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 04 Mar 2014 00:57

^
Swamyg garu,
The jolt only brought back my perspective to a more even kneel - from being skewed towards only positives.
Over that I don't understand this atrribution of lasting takleef (which signifies an inclination to irrational ). In my case i am more pragmatic now.

SagarAg · Post by **SagarAg** » 04 Mar 2014 03:09

SSharma wrote:i have a noob question.

i follow namoji's rallies when they are telecasted on news channels, the crowd is always huge, and then there are reports that bjp booked x number of trains/buses to assist in transportation.

i was wondering if the crowd in the rallies is local people with a few of his die hard supporters joining in
or is it a set crowd of say 2-3lac that follows him everywhere and then some locals join in

the crowd always seems very responsive, like they have seen it all before and answer on cue

^Did some #AAPtard or #CONgress supporter used this argument against you to compare Modi ji rally

A lot of hard work and management skills by BJP karyakartas goes in organizing Modiji rally and make them grand success.
Here is a short special on his #Mahagarjaana pre-rally preparations in Mumbai.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 04 Mar 2014 04:07

China think-tank warns Modi over ties

BEIJING: A Chinese think-tank has cautioned BJP leader Narendra Modi against winning votes at the cost of India-China ties while citing his "provocative speech in the disputed area (Arunachal Pradesh)".

"Votes cannot be won at the cost of the future of the Sino-Indian relationship," wrote Shanghai Institute of International Studies researcher Liu Zongyi in Communist Party-controlled Global Times. "The relations between the two countries should not fall victim to India's partisan conflicts..."

Liu indicated that an antagonistic stance towards China could affect investments.

"If the next Indian administration is willing to draw more investment from China, it can become a major step to facilitate India's economic growth and economic cooperation between China and India." The researcher said trust between both nations can only be built step by step, and the loss of ruining the trust "will far outweigh the petty benefits acquired through it". Liu hoped 2014 would be named as the year of friendship between the two countries.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 04 Mar 2014 04:34

VinodTK wrote:China think-tank warns Modi over ties
BEIJING: A Chinese think-tank has cautioned BJP leader Narendra Modi against winning votes at the cost of India-China ties while citing his "provocative speech in the disputed area (Arunachal Pradesh)".

"Votes cannot be won at the cost of the future of the Sino-Indian relationship," wrote Shanghai Institute of International Studies researcher Liu Zongyi in Communist Party-controlled Global Times. "The relations between the two countries should not fall victim to India's partisan conflicts..."

Liu indicated that an antagonistic stance towards China could affect investments.

"If the next Indian administration is willing to draw more investment from China, it can become a major step to facilitate India's economic growth and economic cooperation between China and India." The researcher said trust between both nations can only be built step by step, and the loss of ruining the trust "will far outweigh the petty benefits acquired through it". Liu hoped 2014 would be named as the year of friendship between the two countries.

All of China's investments have a large strategic component along with commercial component. Buying raw materials, selling finished goods, dumping wares, winning infrastructure tenders, selling bugged network equipment, withholding rare earth materials, etc. is how they go about it.

NaMo should be very selective in where he lets in the Chinese. A few projects here and there is okay, nothing more. India and China would be equal trading partners when we will be selling them just as many finished goods of comparable or better value-addition as the Chinese to us.

Otherwise NaMo would have to find a way to deal with Chinese barbs and bullying.

member_28442 · Post by **member_28442** » 04 Mar 2014 05:01

vishant chaudhary wrote:here it is look at the some boys do they look like political karyakarta (cadre).
...

absolutely love the pics, thanks a ton
please keep sharing more if you can

subhamoy.das · Post by **subhamoy.das** » 04 Mar 2014 07:51

gandharva wrote:Congress targets Narendra Modi after its youth wing sweeps Gujarat university polls

Congress students' wing, the National Students' Union of India (NSUI) won six out of eight seats in Gujarat University polls, while the BJP's student wing Akhil Bharatiya Vidyarthi Parishad (ABVP) managed to win two seats.

http://www.ndtv.com/elections/article/e ... lls-490890

Not good. Not good at all......

gandharva · Post by **gandharva** » 04 Mar 2014 08:20

Modi to talk of making northeast business hub in manifesto

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/art ... w/31365680

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 04 Mar 2014 08:29

Lilo saar,

thanks a lot for your support. Appreciate it a lot. Thanks. BTW, saar, I really enjoyed your satires(particularly that buffalo one). I think you have a talent for the satires, saar.

Rahul M wrote:A> Kongis get attacked on inflation issue. But, he has side-stepped giving any assurances on inflation.

B> If NaMo is not going to bring down inflation, then why bring up inflation issue at all?

err janab, I hope you see the couple of sentences for what it is, a classic bait and switch.

please let us know how A implies B ? isn't it obvious that someone criticizing the govt for runaway inflation is implicitly saying he will not do the same ? does every single point need to be spelled out ? might be so in a court, as a political speech that would be seriously yawn inducing.

as I pointed out in my example, does a math graduate need to compute every possible sum under the sun (an utterly futile and needless to say endless proposition) to prove he can do addition ?

=============
Lilo ji, RM's POV at the end of the day is not in favour of 'commons' it's just knee-jerk opposition to anything notRM. (IMVVHO and all that). since he is a public figure he is open to criticism as well.

johnee ji's view of modi in the aftermath of AP bifurcation is also a matter of open record. I have also read enough of his posts to know his last posts deviate far from his usual standards. my post was simply an assurance (as a BRF mod) that there was no need to hide his feelings in the garb of something else.

in a nutshell, I stated some facts and my opinions are based on those facts. clearly, any condescension you perceive is entirely imagined.

Saar,

I am saying lets be careful about the fine print. Lets not come to any assumptions based on 'A implies B' logic.

Since you mention AP bifurcation, I'll give example from that episode itself to convey why 'A implies B' type of assumption does not work:
Modi said the kongis were doing zeher ki kheti(harvesting poison) in AP. He criticized them for the way the whole thing was being handled. He mentioned the track record of NDA. Exact same to same as inflation.(criticize kongis and mention the track record of NDA). So, people assumed that lotus will oppose the bill in LS, atleast, the way it was being pushed by the kongis in its present form. But, that did not happen. So, even as Modi criticized kongis for the division, his party went ahead and supported the same kongis for the division. Infact, there was lot of confusion about lotus stand on AP issue till the very last.

This is the classic way a party/politician will work. They will try to keep their options open and then ultimately do what they think suits them in the short term. Even here, there is ample scope for corruption and other such malpractices. So, its better if clear cut assurances are sought and given. Its a different issue when clear cut assurances are not implemented. For example: kongis promised to reduce inflation in their manifestos. Modi attacks them on this issue in almost every rally. And people would most likely not vote for the kongis again due to this.

See, even now, on this forum itself there seems to be lot of confusion about issues. And this forum is filled with very knowledgeable people. Yet, there seems to be confusion. Inflation is one such example. One can raise several other issues, where NaMo and his party seem to have been vague. FDI in retail also come to mind immediately.

Here is a simple straight-forward question: will FDI in retail be allowed by NaMo or not?
a) Yes
b) No

If its a clear yes or no, then it would be better.

Similarly, different ideas about taxes are being floated as potential lotus initiatives. It would be good if NaMo clearly says what their tax program is likely to be. I am sure one can convey it if one wants to in a simple and clear manner unless one wants to complicate with jargon.
a) He will keep the tax system as it is.
b) He will reduce taxes and find alternative ways of increasing taxes. If so, what are those alternative ways?
c) He will increase taxes.
d) He will increase direct taxes and reduce indirect taxes.
e) He will decrease direct taxes and increase indirect taxes.
f) He will give tax benefits to rich.
g) He will tax the rich more and give tax benefits to poor.
...etc
Whatever the plan is, I think it needs to be spelled out clearly. Otherwise, it is akin to signing a blank check by the voter.

See, earlier people(including me) had tried to similarly say,"lets just trust MMS, he will do what needs to be done. Surely, he must have some plan." When the terrorism was going on without anyone having any control over it, people said the plan was to grow the economy and then to take on the bakis. Then, the economy also went to dogs. Now, people start complaining and then start saying,"lets just trust Modi, he will do what needs to be done. Surely, he must have some plan." In 2009, MMS was also trusted by many people.

Saar,
you are right to an extent that after AP split, I am more cynical(infact, I have confessed as much). I had these doubts and questions nagging in my mind earlier also. But, at that time, I brushed them aside and focused only on positive aspects. At that time, it was still not clear that Modi would win. But, now, Modi's win is more or less assured. The only thing remaining is the extent of the victory. And after the AP episode, I don't want to focus on only positive issues. Since others are already focusing on positives, I am asking some of the questions that were nagging in my mind.

I am quite clear in my mind that Modi is the most eligible candidate for PM-ship in 2014 regardless of all other issues. Infact, I would be terribly disappointed if Modi does not become PM in 2014. Very very disappointed. Does that mean Modi should not be criticized? No. There should be criticism especially of non-secular type. Now that Modi is slated to win, I don't see why there should be any fear in Modi supporters.

I am not expecting Modi to be perfect. But, I want to see all the warts whatever they are.

Obomber was voted in with similar jubilation. He was also expected to save amirkhan econ. It seems to me that many black people voted to Obomber expecting a lot of changes on ground in their lives. But, it seems that nothing has changed on ground and the amirkhan econ has also not improved much. Infact, Obomber was given Nobull for sheer hope that he generated.

I still think NaMo will perform very well. But, I think tough questions are not being asked. This may seem strange because the impression is that NaMo is under immense scrutiny. NaMo is under scrutiny but on secularism. His criticizers are mostly ideological ones(specially from leftist background). After the initial, round of criticisms, people go back to 2002. This is the classic mistake made by his criticizers who don't realize the NaMo became big after 2002. As far as his resume is concerned, 2002 is marquee and trying to criticize on it will not yield any dividends for his opponents. Infact, such criticism will galvanize many people to rush in his support.

It seems to me that NaMo does take feedback and change the course wherever he can. So, asking criticisms, particularly constructive criticisms, would help in evolving his strategy. I consider my criticism as constructive. Because, I think NaMo is using a very simple but clever trick. He is going hammer and tongs on his opponents on issues, but keeping his own cards close to his chest. Since, he is a very orator, he can manage this very well. This allows him the flexibility to maneuver in whichever way he wants to depending on his needs.

From his perspective, its a good strategy. But, from people's perspective(and I consider myself as part of the people), its better to ask for clear cut promises.

Minority groups keep asking for clear-cut assurances from NaMo. And therefore special rallies are done to assure them. Others must also ask for clear-cut assurances from NaMo(infact, everyone else).

Supratik wrote:@johneeG

It is Economics101. Assuming you are not talking of Kejriwal type reduction of prices where Govt reduces prices by dictat and the economy goes into a spiral leading to further inflation you need to ask why is inflation taking place. If you arbitrarily increase money circulation e.g. through various dole schemes and if demand outstrips supply becoz you are unable or unwilling to increase economic activity to match the demand or if you are unable to balance your books i.e. you have both CAD and budget deficit at unsustainable levels then you will have inflation. In case of UPA2 we have all three so the persistent inflation. Ultimately it boils down to governance or lack of it which has been his main theme. He feels that if governance improves all three problems will be tackled and will tame inflation. That is the gist.

Suraj wrote:Re: inflation, the simplest way to address it is to build infrastructure. Faster movement of goods, better electricity and water supply alone will have significant multipliers. That infrastructure spending in the early 2000s gave us years of historically low inflation. Anyone remember the low EMIs of the mid-2000s ? Money was cheap and prices stable because the new roadbuilding and electricity generation increased supply. We are fundamentally a supply-starved economy. Don't make the mistake of confusing our situation with the west - their problem is the diametric opposite - too much supply and lack of aggregate demand. We have no shortage of demand; we lack supply. Programs like NREGA, instead of focusing on supply by improving infrastructure, just added to wage growth and demand and worsened inflation instead.

Saar,
it seems to me that one of the main things driving inflation is the petrol/diesel/gas prices. In the past decade, these prices have sky-rocketed. This increases the cost of transportation(i.e. supply cost increases). Since the transportation costs of goods increases, their prices increase. It has nothing to do with demand.

To a layman like me, it seems that if the fuel/transportation prices are not curbed, then the inflation cannot be curbed. Similarly, it seems to me that there are bubbles all over in real estate which drives housing prices.

Improving the infrastructure will lead to growth & jobs. But, I don't know how it will reduce inflation. Will improving the infrastructure counter-balance the fuel rates? Will the salaries increase at the same rate as inflation(i.e. fuel rates & housing prices)?

But, you guys are the econ experts, so please correct me wherever I am wrong.

It seems to me that one game changer would be solar energy(or any alternative source of energy) that Modi is very big on.

I am sure there are different ways(short-term & long-term, good & bad) to increase or decrease inflation. But whatever the plan is, it would be better if Modi ji can spell it out clearly, so that people like me can sleep peacefully.

Inflation is a real problem because it affects the overall lifestyle and gradually impoverishes the people.

----
One of the big concerns is that many things are said by other lotus guys. And generally, these things are said once and there is no follow up if there is some hue and cry. Modi maintains his silence on the uttering of his fellow party-mates. Its not clear whether he supports them or opposes them.

For example, lotus Prez said that they are willing to review their stand on art 370 if its found to be useful for people. Is this the new stand? or the old stand continues?

Jaitley supposedly said to Amikrhan amby that the Hindhuthva is just posturing for elections. Has Jaitley confirmed or condemned these reports? Is it the official party stand?

There are several such confusing utterings by lotus people.

----
EDIT:
The reason for concern is simply this:
I think whenever political parties or politicians speak, they do it very carefully for a specific purpose. Modi has done so many rallies and spoken for several hours. Yet, in all those hours, if he has not clearly stated,"we will bring down prices, if we come to power", then it sounds like a deliberate attempt to keep it vague. I would be happy if Modi makes a clear promise to reduce inflation. How he does it, is upto him.