Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 05 Mar 2014 05:14

How will you have all soft buttons within the far edge boundary without making it look ghetto?

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 05 Mar 2014 05:24

Raja Bose wrote:How will you have all soft buttons within the far edge boundary without making it look ghetto?

Well, this is what the geniuses in hot air country are paid to figure out na? But something on the lines of moving most navigation of these in app buttons to the bottom, an in app menu slider from the right?

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 05 Mar 2014 05:48

pandyan wrote:I think usage model of phone is: <10% talk and remaining on text/browse/play/watch etc. Large screen definitely helps with text/browse/play/watch aspects.

yes, but its not about the phone only it is about one handed operations.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 05 Mar 2014 07:47

Fruit Co will go for a larger screen. Two reasons for it, first is that they can shrink the bezel down so a 4.7 incher wont be that much bigger than the current device they have. Second reason is simple -- People look at these phones at the carrier store and pick up the shiniest. Which is usually the Sammy with Super Saturated AMOLED screen with fake colors (like foundation, lip gloss and cheek rouge applied on Kareena Kapoor).

There is another reason. Apple wishes people to fork out $650 for a phone and $500 for a tablet, most people just want to fork out $600 for a Phablet. Thats why the fugly Galaxy Note sells so much.

"One handed operations" in theory sounds important and profound. Just like Blackberry's "Physical keyboard". Which in theory also sounds logical and appealing.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 05 Mar 2014 09:27

Raja Bose wrote:Sammy does a $hit job, they will get called out on it, just like any other co whether its Sammy, Mickey, Chacha or FruitCo.

Gussa kyon hota ho ji? We are talking about marketing. Even MSFT was a sponsor to the Grammy's, but they didn't seem to capitalize on it in general social media like Sammy. You seem to take this personally. Sammy is making hey in the sun and in a few years they'll move on to the next big thing.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 05 Mar 2014 10:22

ShauryaT wrote:
Raja Bose wrote:How will you have all soft buttons within the far edge boundary without making it look ghetto?
Well, this is what the geniuses in hot air country are paid to figure out na? But something on the lines of moving most navigation of these in app buttons to the bottom, an in app menu slider from the right?

Not worth the effort. You will see them in design cues once in a while but not uniformly across the entire interface. One handed operation means using your thumb onlee and for capacitive touchscreens due to various reasons, the thumb is not the best digit to use, even more so in touchscreens like GS4/5 which use a hybrid capacitive touchscreen. Just like touchscreen keyboard, people will adapt to non one-handed use - its not that big a deal.

Mort Walker wrote:
Raja Bose wrote:Sammy does a $hit job, they will get called out on it, just like any other co whether its Sammy, Mickey, Chacha or FruitCo.
Gussa kyon hota ho ji? We are talking about marketing. Even MSFT was a sponsor to the Grammy's, but they didn't seem to capitalize on it in general social media like Sammy. You seem to take this personally. Sammy is making hey in the sun and in a few years they'll move on to the next big thing.

Hum aap thodi hain jo kisi faceless company pe personal gussa nikaalengay jaise aap regularly Mickey pe nikaaltay ho?

Anand K · Post by **Anand K** » 05 Mar 2014 12:48

I've been thinking about the "IP67"

on the Sam S5 - bet it comes with a lot of fine print - but has anyone used something like the JCB Toughphone [link to spec sheet, PDF] here?

When we talk IP67 rated panels/housing it means the panels have been tested by being immersed in water for hours or dosed with talcum for days. The sovirginity is maintained by rubber bushings, fabrication features and other chastity assurance features/procedures. So what's a true IP67 phone mean - it retains it no matter how many times you opened the back panel or waded in water etc or dropped it in the Punch bowl? I ruined my company BB Bold Touch by getting fully drenched in a thunderstorm and narrowly escaped paying for it - so I know the water threat.

anmol · Post by **anmol** » 05 Mar 2014 16:34

Marten wrote:I'm gonna write to Nadella this weekend about a big grand plan to split open the mobile market. (j/k, but seriously think about this).

Basically it is this: Build a store that can host any app regardless of the OS - give app developers tools to either port their code or automatically port the code. Benefits are that you can destroy the OS dependency and democratize the app market in a manner that no amount of hardware pushing can! Basically offer an app for any device/resolution/OS, and allow users to buy across OS. Of course closed environments such as iOS will be resistant, but if they can port over to Android and offer multiple versions, given their immense financial clout and ability to incentivize development for multi-OS deployments, it will be a major change in the manner in which users are exploited/mined/etc.

I think they are kind of doing jsut that, I think they had Xamarin guys showing how to port apps for Nokia X.

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 05 Mar 2014 19:27

Anujan wrote: "One handed operations" in theory sounds important and profound. Just like Blackberry's "Physical keyboard". Which in theory also sounds logical and appealing.

Both are logical and appeal to user preferences. A physical keyboard continues to be the device of choice, where typing is needed, it was just that 90%+ of the use of the smart phone is for reading not typing. Even today many people, who choose to use the iPad as their device of choice to somewhat replace a laptop, attach an external keyboard for typing - see this very prevalent in some student communities. One handed operations is critical to a pocket device as portable as a smart phone. Many apps or even most do not even offer a landscape orientation partly due to this reason.

Except for watching videos, which is fine in landscape, most smartphone use is interactive. The only case where it does make sense to use two hands is when two thumbs are needed to interact, so games and fast typing are use cases. So, however they solve this problem, if they screw the one handed operation, it would be a significant back step to the user experience.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 05 Mar 2014 20:32

^^^It would be a step backwards but the question is....when asked to choose between a larger screen vs one handed operation, what will users choose. In case of the physical keyboard, they chose the crappier touch screen keyboard due to other benefits.

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 05 Mar 2014 21:12

Raja Bose wrote:^^^It would be a step backwards but the question is....when asked to choose between a larger screen vs one handed operation, what will users choose. In case of the physical keyboard, they chose the crappier touch screen keyboard due to other benefits.

Let us see, time will tell, if Apple can indeed innovate. Samsung / Android have indeed taken a huge market share, due to smart packaging and marketing, especially for international markets, based on price and highly visible features - but not usability. A stock holder should legitimately be upset at Apple management for not being able to come up with products at price points and with features, that consumers would pay for. Being somewhat of purists has hurt their market share.

It is one handed operation that has prevented Apple from going to a large screen, otherwise there are so many other benefits that they can take advantage of with a larger screen, which I personally think, they have cornered themselves due to to the over engineering by being the slimmest, lightest, etc, like the LCA. At some point of time the real estate limitations start to have an impact, such as on battery life? It is usability that Apple trumps with and consumers love. They should tread very carefully, if they loose this one key differentiating factor.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 05 Mar 2014 22:00

If thickness and bezel use can be minimized, a large screen can be ergonomic. The Nexus 5 has 5" screen and for the most part is comfortable to use, but it is a tad bit too large given even the minimal bezel. However, it is probably the most comfortable of large screen phones available.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 05 Mar 2014 22:08

Raja Bose wrote:Hum aap thodi hain jo kisi faceless company pe personal gussa nikaalengay jaise aap regularly Mickey pe nikaaltay ho?

Nothing against MSFT, but Windows OS.
MSFT != Windows OS

Windows has caused much consternation to billions of people world wide. We use it because of legacy and corporate inertia. Other than that, many people love MSFT.

Saral · Post by **Saral** » 06 Mar 2014 00:06

Many use windows OS by choice. Since NT and 2000, the general quality has improved, barring episodes like Vista. Even Win8 (now 8.1) is fine despite poor choices in the default interface. Overall win OS still has north of 80% share but most of that is win7 and win xp. They must be doing something right. Unless desktops & laptops become irrelevant, I don't see how things will change too much over next decade. 20 years ago, it was pretty much the same story. Given that MS Office is on the Mac, I guess the cost factor is the main obstacle in growth of Macs which is still at less than 5%.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 06 Mar 2014 03:11

It is one handed operation that has prevented Apple from going to a large screen

Actually no. Contrary to the pixie dust they talk about, fruitco does very careful cost benefit analysis. The factors that go into the smaller screens are many.

1. They want to maintain margins on the phone. Remember that iPhone is the most important product sold by fuitco vis-à-vis revenue.

2. They prefer to spend money on things like calibrating individual panels rather than spending money on bigger panels.

3. Size independent app development on iOS is still a pain. This is touted as a feature. "Hard to develop on android because it comes in several sizes, but iphunwa has one size onlee"

4. They don't want it to cannibalize iPad mini.

Fruitco will shift when it becomes apparent that the revenue that they are losing because people buy a bigger Sammy is higher than the revenue theyd lose by putting in a bigger panel. Anyone remember "we will never ever build a 7 inch tablet ever!!" Followed by introducing a 7 inch tablet when it was clear market was moving that way followed by "this is not really a 7 inch tablet, it is so much more" nonsense they touted. The first iPad mini with poor resolution and sluggish performance was actually an eye sore. That's the only thing that reconciles "Tim cook is an out and out numbers man" with "Fruitco does what's great for the users".

Also they learned a reinforcing lesson. The most profitable PC maker is fruitco. Last time I checked HP had ~2% margins on their PC business. That's what happens if you chase emerging markets and sell cheap. Dell fell into this trap and went bankrupt. At least in the hardware market, it seems longevity is assured only by price premium you charge for the brand. So fruitco will not make cheap phones. I suspect there is a camp inside fruitco who's urging them along that direction though. That's why you had the half assed iPhone 5c that's neither here nor there. What they'll continue to do though is sell older models cheaper. Hardware business is about profitability, not market share. Platforms and service business is about market share. Thats why M$ and chacha take a different route than Fruitco

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 06 Mar 2014 03:27

I personally am excited to see what fruitco does in the wearables market. All the products so far have been "meh". Watches for the sake of watches and more painful to use than phones.

When iphunwa came out, yes it was smaller than your laptop, yes it was slower, reading writing emails on small screen was a pain so was looking up directions in a teeny ass screen. But what made it extraordinary was that you had your phone with you at all times and didn't have to go somewhere or sit down to read your email or pull up directions. This was quite extraordinary.

OTOH the use case of a watch seems to be " look!! You don't have to pull up a phone from your pocket, here's a notification on a tiny ass screen instead" followed by "we'll measure your heart rate while we are at it". That's not the stunning and remarkable use case I am looking for. Something that truly simplifies my life is missing.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 06 Mar 2014 03:28

I always thought the 5c was created because fruitco could not ramp up the volumes of the generation following iphunwa 5 without it - they already faced supply constraints with machining the 5, and the 5s was just more of the same problem, with higher volumes to handle. Which would explain the 5c - a 5 in a plastic body that could be produced in greater volume than the 5s could. That didn't necessarily solve any problems, because mango men went for 5s because of perceived greater snob value than the 5c, variously translated as cheap/china/chaprasi/something else. After two generations of facing the same problem, perhaps they'll now just ramp up machining ability at Wolfconn et al to produce the 6 (persumably) machined body in greater volumes without the production constraints that have anal-e-cysts going

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 06 Mar 2014 03:53

Suraj wrote:I always thought the 5c was created because fruitco could not ramp up the volumes of the generation following iphunwa 5 without it - they already faced supply constraints with machining the 5, and the 5s was just more of the same problem, with higher volumes to handle. Which would explain the 5c - a 5 in a plastic body that could be produced in greater volume than the 5s could. That didn't necessarily solve any problems, because mango men went for 5s because of perceived greater snob value than the 5c, variously translated as cheap/china/chaprasi/something else. After two generations of facing the same problem, perhaps they'll now just ramp up machining ability at Wolfconn et al to produce the 6 (persumably) machined body in greater volumes without the production constraints that have anal-e-cysts going

FruitCo is unlikely to have any major supply/volume issues. Bawarchi got all that locked down nicely back when Mahdi was alive - that was his crowning achievement. The 5c was not made becoz of any perceived supply problems but becoz Bawarchi got convinced by unnamed people that FruitCo brand was like Khaitan fan and even if they made a cheap plastic box, people would buy it. The fly in that argument was that people won't buy a cheap plastic box from FruitCo when there was another shiny metal box from FruitCo available.

Pretty much all the funky waterjets cnc milling machines at Wolfconn are FruitCo funded - they are pretty well covered in terms of capacity for machining svelte Macbook, iPhunwa and iPadwa housings.

---

For one the FruitCo watch will have a circular face. I am mystified why the likes of Sammy etc. cannot come up with a circular faced wearable watch device. That shape itself will make it stand out from the rest of the square faced crowd.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 06 Mar 2014 03:59

Suraj wrote:Which would explain the 5c - a 5 in a plastic body that could be produced in greater volume than the 5s could. That didn't necessarily solve any problems, because mango men went for 5s because of perceived greater snob value than the 5c, variously translated as cheap/china/chaprasi/something else. ..

That wouldn't have happened if the price difference between the 5s and 5c was substantial. The 5c is way too overpriced.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 06 Mar 2014 04:03

Raja Bose wrote: For one the FruitCo watch will have a circular face. I am mystified why the likes of Sammy etc. cannot come up with a circular faced wearable watch device. That shape itself will make it stand out from the rest of the square faced crowd.

Well that is the difference between FruitCo and Sammy. Sammy will try to maximize screen area in the limited dimensions available and make a square watch. FruitCo will try to ensure it looks good and appeals to the yuppy crowd - screen area be damned. They'll also make sure the hardware has F-22 levels of tolerances and build quality while Sammy will buy the cheapest plastic/metal available.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 06 Mar 2014 04:12

Raja Bose wrote:For one the FruitCo watch will have a circular face. I am mystified why the likes of Sammy etc. cannot come up with a circular faced wearable watch device. That shape itself will make it stand out from the rest of the square faced crowd.

Ooh. I can see where this is going already.

1. Fruitco releases circular face iwatchwa
2. Press: "ZOMG! circular face watch! innovashun!!"
3. Sammy cans existing watch and make one with circular face as big as a saucepan
4. watchlet market takes off.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 06 Mar 2014 04:28

^^^I don't see the smart watch as really very appealing. Do people really want another Twitter feed on their watch? What about battery life? Do we want yet another device to charge? What does seem appealing is wearable computing. I can see more things like Google glass coming out which would be great.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 06 Mar 2014 04:39

Suraj wrote: Ooh. I can see where this is going already.

3. Sammy cans existing watch and make one with circular face as big as a saucepan
4. watchlet market takes off.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 06 Mar 2014 04:43

That reminds me. When I was a nanha, an uncle of mine used to work for the fan company which made Usha or orient or some such fans. Obviously the injineers there knew airflow was what was important so made a slow moving fan with broader blades at a deeper angle which moved as much air as the faster ones. The obvious advantage being that the fan was quieter and the bearings lasted longer.

Sales collapsed. Indian kashtmars went to the fan showroom and picked the fan that spun the fastest

they tried telling kashtmars airflow was what was important, put out ads and then downhill skiied went back to making "fast" fans.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 06 Mar 2014 08:06

Mort Walker wrote:^^^I don't see the smart watch as really very appealing. Do people really want another Twitter feed on their watch? What about battery life? Do we want yet another device to charge? What does seem appealing is wearable computing. I can see more things like Google glass coming out which would be great.

er...smart watch is a wearable.

A device like Google Glass is just not ready for prime time....too many ergonomic and technical challenges. And also those bolded points apply equally to any wearable, not just watches.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 06 Mar 2014 08:33

^^^Google Glass is an example - others can make something similar and will be ready in 12-18 months. There can be many more like it. Wearable in the sense like clothing like a smart jacket or running shoes. Not many people wear watches, and those who do, do for precise timing or jewelry. A watch from Apple, no matter how slick, just isn't going to compete with a Breitling for the bling bling factor.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 06 Mar 2014 08:58

^^^Others cant make it in 12-18 months either. Even glasses qualify as fashion accessories. Unless it is some utilitarian wearable, it needs to satisify the fashion accessory criteria.

chandrasekaran · Post by **chandrasekaran** » 06 Mar 2014 09:07

They'll also make sure the hardware has F-22 levels of tolerances and build quality while Sammy will buy the cheapest plastic/metal available.

Sammy may be using plastic but their build quality and durability is excellent. My Galaxy S2 (almost 2.5 years now) and Samsung Star (non Android touch phone -resistive touch screen - almost 5 years old now) are doing fine despite multiple drops and what not! I haven't changed the battery yet on the Star!

On a separate note, I strongly urge those that use the older Samsung Galaxy series to look into slimrom. It has given a new lease to my S2

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 06 Mar 2014 10:20

Raja Bose wrote: FruitCo is unlikely to have any major supply/volume issues. Bawarchi got all that locked down nicely back when Mahdi was alive - that was his crowning achievement. The 5c was not made becoz of any perceived supply problems but becoz Bawarchi got convinced by unnamed people that FruitCo brand was like Khaitan fan and even if they made a cheap plastic box, people would buy it. The fly in that argument was that people won't buy a cheap plastic box from FruitCo when there was another shiny metal box from FruitCo available.

Actually, Bawarchi may be on to something here. My officemate recently bought a couple of 5c phones for his two older kids (one might be something like 12 and the other is around 9 years old). He figured that they're a bit cheaper than the shiny metal 5s phones, but they're still pretty good phones and the kids can stop messing with his and his wife's phones. Also, his kids seem to prefer the 5c colors and looks more anyway. Then I found out that two other guys in the office also bought 5c phones for their kids. So perhaps, they are banking on parents buying the more expensive 5s and getting their children the 5c. Family friendly onlee.

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 06 Mar 2014 10:40

Mort Walker wrote:^^^I don't see the smart watch as really very appealing. Do people really want another Twitter feed on their watch? What about battery life? Do we want yet another device to charge? What does seem appealing is wearable computing. I can see more things like Google glass coming out which would be great.

Sir, for many years, I used to wear a Swatch Paparazzi SmartWatch powered by Microsoft! This watch needed to be charged every few days, but I didn't mind doing that at all. Because the watch could receive traffic reports, weather reports, stock prices, news headlines and even IMs to my hotmail account. And if you're thinking "big deal, my phone does that", this was back in 2004, well before smartphones were invented, so this watch was really useful to me back in those days, especially the traffic reports when I was driving home. On top of that, it had downloadable watch faces and automatically synchronized to the atomic clock, so I never had to adjust the watch once, even when travelling across different time zones, because it knew where it was and updated its time automatically.

It is a real pity that they stopped manufacturing those watches in 2009 or so (and MSN discontinued their MSN direct service at the end of 2011, so no more pushing data to watches

). The buckle on my watch strap broke and I couldn't get a replacement, otherwise I might still wear mine today.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 07 Mar 2014 17:25

^^^About 12 years back I had an early version of a Timex Data Link, it lasted me about a year and not very reliable. They claimed it was water resistant, but it couldn't stand up to small amount of water from hand washing. It too had data pushed to it and was a neat concept. It was for geeks and not the average person.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 Mar 2014 17:31

delhi had a service called teletext in the 80s. some kind of set top box that would get similar useful updates via tv spectrum.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 08 Mar 2014 00:01

Former Apple CEO John Sculley to launch a smartphone company in India

http://www.intomobile.com/2014/03/07/fo ... any-india/

Former Apple CEO John Sculley is apparently looking to enter the smartphone market and launch a new brand in India, BGR.in is reporting. The yet unnamed company will be led by Ajay Sharma, who was previously heading Micromax’s smartphone division and was also at one time HTC’s India head. Sharma will use his contacts from within the industry to make this a successful business, all while engaging some of its earlier colleagues from the two companies.The new company will mostly be selling smartphones though there could be few feature phones in their line-up, as well. The first device will hit the market in April this year, costing anywhere between Rs 5,000 ($82) and Rs 15,000 ($246).Singapore-based Inflexionpoint, where Sculley is one of the founding partners, will finance the new venture.It remains to be seen whether these guys have what it takes to compete in today’s landscape. India is a huge market, but all major brands are there and so are many local players.According to the latest IDC figures, smartphone shipments in India grew three times from 16.2 million in 2012 to 44 million in 2013…

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 08 Mar 2014 00:54

^^^Great....so the clueless loser Sculley is trying to cash in on his Apple notoriety.

archan · Post by **archan** » 08 Mar 2014 02:11

The upcoming HTC One, with dual lens camera, hope they have a dual sim version for desh, and is going to have top specs, might empty my pockets by a cool 60K. Hope it supports the desi phorG band.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 08 Mar 2014 02:45

^^^Rs. 60K is A LOT for a phone. I certainly hope it is not priced that. Should be around $650 USD unlocked.

archan · Post by **archan** » 08 Mar 2014 07:51

The highest end phones are typically 48-53k here. Add tax and it goes beyond 60.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 08 Mar 2014 10:24

For Mortullah

X-posting

Jhujar wrote:Gates Spends Entire FirstDay Back in Office Trying to Install Windows 8.1

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/b ... =obnetwork
REDMOND, WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)—Bill Gates’s first day at work in the newly created role of technology adviser got off to a rocky start yesterday as the Microsoft founder struggled for hours to install the Windows 8.1 upgrade.The installation hit a snag early on, sources said, when Mr. Gates repeatedly received an error message informing him that his PC ran into a problem that it could not handle and needed to restart.After failing to install the upgrade by lunchtime, Mr. Gates summoned the new Microsoft C.E.O. Satya Nadella, who attempted to help him with the installation, but with no success.While the two men worked behind closed doors, one source described the situation as “tense.”“Bill is usually a pretty calm guy, so it was weird to hear some of that language coming out of his mouth,” the source said.A Microsoft spokesman said only that Mr. Gates’s first day in his new job had been “a learning experience” and that, for the immediate future, he would go back to running Windows 7.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 08 Mar 2014 10:28

Hum Linux walon ko bhi

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 08 Mar 2014 15:44

^^^I think that is a joke. Surely billudada and Satya wouldn't waste the day on Windows installation. Even a duffer like me would stop after 90 minutes and use another machine.