Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 15 Mar 2014 19:55

Just a point...we must not join the bandwagon in questioning Malaysian competence. We don't have the full info on what they are doing, how they have briefed local ambassadors, foreign agencies, etc.... it's not easy, and they are not resourced fully for something like this - and they are taking help. Some contradictory statements and so on can be expected.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 15 Mar 2014 20:04

well said JEM, whatever we asians do will be tarred and feathered by our betters. time to stand in solidarity

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 15 Mar 2014 20:07

Only American , japan and Aussie p3/p8 and our lrmp birds have the range and coverage to effectively search the southern semi circle.
or sher khan need to divert a lph usmc task force there with 20 embarked seahawks.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 15 Mar 2014 20:09

Despite these two crucial tracking devices being inoperative, the plane still sent signals to a satellite after the aircraft went missing in the form of 'pings' - rather like a cellphone does, even if it is not switched on.

National spy agencies have this strange compulsion to say that they never LIE. OTOH they will go to jail if they tell the truth and the whole truth. And they will lose funding & H&D if they say nothing. So they say stuff like this: Does the above statement say that it is the same satellite used for ACARS that picked up the "pings"? Or the NSA bug videocamer in the First Class pakistan or in the Flt attendants' diaper-changing station? More probably the latter.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 15 Mar 2014 20:12

They saw cockroach sized bugs r available for avionics use that can talk to satellites directly.
a bunch were fumigated frm cheen presidants plush 767.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 15 Mar 2014 20:15

I say we and Japan jointly call bluff on southern circle. Put together a strong lrmp unit, fly together out of Singapore, sweep the ring, land in Perth to refuel, next day sweep back, end that line of work and put spotlight on the real power play which is northern arc.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 15 Mar 2014 20:22

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 94304.html

Even curiouser and curiouser! It appears that the Malaysian authorities had a pretty good idea of what happened right from the start but have pretended to try and find out the missing links on land in Malaysia.There must've been co-conspirators at KL working in the airport for the alleged hijackers to have smuggled weapons aboard with which they took over the flight,with the possible connivance of one of the pilots.

If the aircraft was still flying 7.5 hrs after take-off,what was the outer limit of an arc that it could've flown,and to which possible countries? How would it have avoided not being detected if it few over any land mass like India for example? Would mil radars been able to have detected it?

Flight MH370 was deliberately diverted as part of an audacious plan – and the jet was still flying seven-and-a-half-hours after take-off.

In the most dramatic development since the Boeing 777 went missing a week ago, it emerged that the malicious act began shortly after take-off from Kuala Lumpur.

The aircraft, with 239 passengers and crew on board, lost contact with air-traffic controllers on a flight from the Malaysian capital to Beijing early last Saturday morning.

One week after Malaysia Airlines announced the flight’s disappearance, the authorities finally revealed what they know. Malaysia’s prime minister, Najib Razak, said “with a high degree of certainty” that the aircraft was deliberately flown thousands of miles off course. From the information he provided, it appears that the jet may have reached as far as the Caspian Sea.

Air-traffic controllers lost voice contact with the flight deck when the aircraft was over the South China Sea, midway between Peninsular Malaysia and the southern tip of Vietnam. But the prime minister revealed that one communications system - known as ACARS, and used for data transmission – had been disabled significantly earlier in the flight. It was switched off while the plane was still flying over Malaysian territory north of Kuala Lumpur. Radio contact with at least one of the pilots took place after the data transmission system was turned off.

The aircraft’s transponder, which provides identification data and also handles the aircraft’s “hi-jack alarm”, is believed to have been switched off while the aircraft was over the South China Sea.

The revelations indicate that whoever was directing the plane – whether a hijacker or one of the pilots – had a plan; if the aim was to destroy the aircraft, it could simply have been downed at once.

The information about the duration of the flight came from satellite data provided by the London-based company, Inmarsat. Yesterday it emerged that electronic “pings” from the aircraft continued for over five hours after all other contact was lost. Evidence from Malaysia’s air force corroborated the theory that the plane turned from its north-north-east course to head west.

The final satellite contact was at 8.11am, five-and-a-half hours after the jet’s last known position. During that time, the aircraft could have flown 3,000 miles at its normal cruising speed.

The maximum range of the Boeing 777ER aircraft type is over 8,000 miles, but the flight was carrying only enough fuel for the planned 2,700-mile flight to Beijing plus a contingency for holding and diversions.

Mr Razak said: “Due to the type of satellite data, we are unable to confirm the precise position of the plane where it last made contact.” But some geographical clues are given by the satellite contact, and as a result two new corridors of land and sea are being studied. One is the south Indian Ocean west of Indonesia, where the possible intended destinations include Mauritius and Madagascar. The other is a swathe of land stretching from northern Thailand to the Kazakhstan-Turkmenistan border – on the edge of the Caspian Sea. It takes in the territory of a dozen countries, and their ambassadors have been summoned to a briefing in Kuala Lumpur.

Dozens of ships and aircraft deployed to comb the South China Sea have been stood down.

Two key questions remain. If the pilots were acting under duress, why did they not activate an emergency distress signal on the flight deck when events began? And were the crew not challenged about the disabled ACARS system?

It is believed that military surveillance may have revealed more about the plane’s movements, but for the moment, the families of the 227 passengers and 12 crew must endure yet more uncertainty.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 15 Mar 2014 20:27

could Ukrainian or chechen terrorists planned to crash it into the kremlin? Rus has been super quiet so far.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 15 Mar 2014 20:38

Missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370: Prime ministers says plane's communications 'deliberately disabled' as police reportedly raid pilots' homes

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 94297.html

Russian air defence systems are pretty good.Remember how they shot down KAL 007? Given the large number of Chinese aboard,could it be a hijack aimed at China? Remember the knife attacks recently? Could the aircraft have flown over BDEsh into Nepal and beyond into "Weeger " land or into Central Asia? The fact that both pilots were Muslim and the Malaysian authorities indulging in a cover-up of sorts given its highly autocratic political set up,could have immense political fall out if it was found that the Malaysians goofed up.

The search for missing Flight MH370 has become vastly bigger. And vastly more complicated.
Ads by Google

A week after the Malaysian Airlines plane and its 239 passengers and crew disappeared, Malaysia’s Prime Minister has revealed investigators believe the missing plane was intentionally flown off course and was in the air for more than seven hours. He said the actions taken by the jet after it took off from Kuala Lumpur seven days ago were consistent with “deliberate action by someone on the plane”.

“Clearly, the search for MH370 has entered a new phase. Over the last seven days, we have followed every lead and looked into every possibility,” said Najib Razak at a press conference in the Malaysian capital. “For the families and friends of those involved, we hope this new information brings us one step closer to finding the plane.”

Mr Najib said that based on new satellite data investigators were now pursuing the belief that the plane’s last location was along one of two possible corridors - a northern route stretching from the border of Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan to northern Thailand, or a southern one stretching from Indonesia to the southern Indian ocean.

He said while investigators were still investigating all possibilities, he said attention was being refocussed on the possible role of the passengers or crew of the plane. Police on Saturday reportedly raided the homes of the pilot and the co-pilot. Earlier, officials had said they were probing whether some psychological problems or other motivation among someone onboard the plane was the cause of the plane’s disappearance.

The search for missing Malaysia Airlines plane

The Prime Minister said Malaysian officials, along with experts from the US National Transportation Safety Board, the Federal Aviation Administration, and Britain’s Air Accidents Investigation Branch, were still working to refine the information they have received. He said the plane’s main satellite system and its transponder had been switched off, something experts say requires specialist knowledge.

He said officials were trying to get radar data and other relevant information from the countries whose air space the two routes being examined pass through. The northern corridor would trace a busy route, passing northern Thailand and Burma and entering into China on the way towards central Asia.
Read more:
Q&A: What do we know and do we not know about the missing plane?
'Pings' prove plane flew for up to five hours
Analysis: Jet ‘hi-jacking’ began soon after take-off

The southern route, meanwhile, would pass over Indonesia and then the open waters of the southern Indian Ocean, close only to some islands. The New York Times reported that officials believed the southern corridor to be the most likely to have been taken by the plane. “The US Navy would not be heading toward Kazakhstan,” a person briefed on the investigation told the paper.

Razak said: 'Despite media reports the plane was hijacked, I wish to be very clear, we are still investigating all possibilities as to what caused MH370 to deviate' Razak said: 'Despite media reports the plane was hijacked, I wish to be very clear, we are still investigating all possibilities as to what caused MH370 to deviate'

The announcement by the Malaysian Premier follows days of mounting speculation that the disappearance of the Malaysia Airlines jet was not accidental and that it was intentionally diverted or hijacked, by either a member of the crew or a passenger.

As it was, the comments by Mr Najib were the most definitive yet that investigators believe foul play was being the plane’s disappearance. Malaysia Airlines said on Saturday it had been unable earlier to confirm reports of the existence of the satellite data until it had been verified.

Yet Mr Najib’s comments raised as many questions than they answered. A week after the plane went missing, a search involving more than a dozen nations and more than 100 ships and aircraft has failed to uncover a single piece of debris or wreckage. Perhaps most significantly his statement has also reopened the possibility that the plane was hijacked, flown to an as yet unidentified location and set down.

Indeed, his remarks were reportedly welcomed by relatives of the passengers in China, who believe the development keeps alive the hope they may somehow be reunited with their loved ones.

Perhaps aware of this, Mr Najib told journalists: “Despite media reports the plane was hijacked, I wish to be very clear, we are still investigating all possibilities as to what caused MH370 to deviate.”

The final confirmed location of MH370 on radar used by air traffic controllers in Malaysia was at 1.31am last Saturday, about 40 minutes after it took off from Kuala Lumpur International Airport. At that point it was heading north-east across the mouth of the Gulf of Thailand on what should have been a six-hour flight to Beijing.

After that it seemed the plane disappeared from civilian radar but showed up – as a blip - on radar used by the Malaysian military. The Boeing 777 then continued to leave the faintest of traces, a series of “pings” from its Aircraft Communications Addressing and Reporting System.

Mr Najib said the last contact came from the plane at 8.11am local time last Saturday, more than seven-and-a-half hours after it took off. That would have been towards the very end of its flying capability, Officials said the plane was carrying sufficient fuel for 8 hours.

“Due to the type of satellite data we are unable to confirm the precise location of the plane when it last made contact with the satellite,” said the premier.

Inmarsat, the London-based communications company, confirmed that its satellites covering the region received these signals from the plane after it vanished from civilian radar and stopped communicating with the ground shortly after the plane took off.

The signals, sent from satellites if the aircraft has not been in contact for some time, were sent out hourly, providing information about the speed at which the plane was travelling and its altitude, which could help determine the plane’s location.

Such communication between the aircraft and satellites is possible only when the plane is airborne. Calculations made by Inmarsat’s experts have allowed officials to plot the two “arcs” the plane may have taken.

The prime minister, who did not take questions from waiting journalists, said that as a result of the new information, officials were ending their search in the South China Sea. India is already involved in a search of the Andaman Sea.

They were also refocussing their investigations into the pilots - Zaharie Ahmad Shah and Fariq Abdul Hamid - crew and passengers on the plane. On Saturday, police were seen driving into the compound where home of the plane’s main pilot, Mr Shah, is located.

Mr Najib had earlier met with relatives of passengers from the plane. “We realise this is an excruciating time for the families of those on board,” he said. “No words can describe the pain they must be going through. Our thoughts and our prayers are with them.”

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 15 Mar 2014 20:40

NPR interviewed a couple of 777 pilots who said that while switching off the transponder is easy, they wouldn't know how to switch off the ACARS which is almost hard-wired into the plane. This would need a high degree of knowledge about the plane and possibly involve pulling circuit breakers and reading long checklists. The ACARS was switched off before the last radio contact with the pilot. So the hijacking started soon after take off.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 15 Mar 2014 20:45

So the pilot must have accomplice to get into some avionics bay under the cockpit and do this complicated task. The skill level is amazing. Pretty a-team in all depts.
a new era has dawned on world aviation if freelancers of this caliber are available for rent.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 15 Mar 2014 21:03

Ulan Bator, it is not "spy" information that INMARSAT has, it is commercial information.

The only bonafide reason I can think of for keeping secret information that reveals no military or technological secrets (e.g., the fact that ACARs continue to ping even when turned off) is as follows - suppose H is the side that hijacked the plane, and A is the anti-hijack side.

a. A knew from the start it was a hijack or whatever.
b. Any information that A had about the plane's location and state had to be kept secret from H.

So, e.g., H might have been quite assured that A is clueless when the search in the Gulf of Thailand continued for days.

Think about it, flying helicopters and planes on long shifts searching blank sea for nothing is expensive and accident-prone. H would think A would not allow it to continue unless A was genuinely confused.

If the above has any resemblance to the truth, it means that we, the public, are getting information only after "H not being sure that A knows it" is not longer necessary to be secret.

The question then is, what high-stakes thing is it that H is upto that A needed to engage in such expensive deception?

Every other reason I can think of for A to keep information away from search-and-rescue/recovery teams is malafide.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 15 Mar 2014 21:18

Nou Pakistan have been shown well within the Arc , how long will it take before Satyamev Jayte hapen?
GOP, etc have been very quiet on this issue. No sympathy for the Beerather Malaysian Government at all.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 15 Mar 2014 21:18

UlanBatori wrote:
Despite these two crucial tracking devices being inoperative, the plane still sent signals to a satellite after the aircraft went missing in the form of 'pings' - rather like a cellphone does, even if it is not switched on.
National spy agencies have this strange compulsion to say that they never LIE. OTOH they will go to jail if they tell the truth and the whole truth. And they will lose funding & H&D if they say nothing. So they say stuff like this: Does the above statement say that it is the same satellite used for ACARS that picked up the "pings"? Or the NSA bug videocamer in the First Class pakistan or in the Flt attendants' diaper-changing station? More probably the latter.

Yes, and they could have said "it is the same satellite used for ACARS that picked up the "pings"" five days ago. Why not?

PS: we here and the main-stream-media cannot figure out what happened to the plane based on the information we are being fed. What is more interesting, but what no one is asking, what no one in the main-stream-media is asking is - what information was available to the authorities & when? I find it disconcerting that even on BRF, such questions are not exactly encouraged, they are pooh-poohed.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 15 Mar 2014 21:29

Because they don't "lie". They are not going to tell us exactly what they know, or how they found out. Why would they? Can you imagine their reactions as CNN talking heads kept showing the SAME Chinese boat images with the same red arrow, nonstop for 12 hours?

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 15 Mar 2014 21:30

Shreeman wrote: Grand Conspiracy: 1?, Accident/etc: 1*

Yours scores are looking like we are playing baseball not cricket.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 15 Mar 2014 21:34

UlanBatori wrote:Because they don't "lie". They are not going to tell us exactly what they know, or how they found out. Why would they?

My question was a simple one - if they can "reveal" today that turned-off ACARs pings locate the plane along two arcs, blah, blah, blah, what prevented them from "revealing" it six days ago, when it would have then caused the search to be focused elsewhere? Nowhere do they have to "tell us exactly what they know, or how they found it out".

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 15 Mar 2014 21:35

Shreeman is avoiding looking at the scoreboard. Far b it from Northern Himachal to point out the obvious..

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 15 Mar 2014 21:37

Does it mean efforts to save the pax failed and slowly the world shall be led to the wreck?

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 15 Mar 2014 21:39

UlanBatori wrote:Can you imagine their reactions as CNN talking heads kept showing the SAME Chinese boat images with the same red arrow, nonstop for 12 hours?

Actually, at this point, I can believe that these "news" organizations play the same role with respect to their governments as the Pravda and Izvestia played with respect to the Soviet Union. They are propaganda/misinformation agencies that happen to hire some journalists.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 15 Mar 2014 21:41

Guptaji: Because they were all waiting for someone else to release the detailed info. And you can't go tell the Malaysians:
Hey, stop searching and look over here, under the Indian Ocean 2000 miles south of Sri Lanka where we saw a flash after your flight should have run out of fuel!
What if the real answer was 1 hour from being found in some jungle? Takes time for protocol and chain of command, and confirmation at each step.
As it is, the Chinese blinked first by posting boat pictures on their Ministry web site "in error". Major Loss of Face, but their hand was forced because 154 passengers are from China. NEXT day, all sorts of satellite beeps and pings were announced.

Singha: If the satellites saw a flash in the south Indian ocean, I guess that's it. But what if it was a gold heist from a landing at a remote island? The poor souls may still be marooned there. Hope many expert eyes are poring over every image from many satellites!

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 15 Mar 2014 21:41

Indian search finds nothing

Meanwhile, Indian Navy ships supported by long-range surveillance planes and helicopters scoured Andaman Sea for a third day on Saturday without any success in finding evidence of the missing jet.

According to an AP report, an Indian Coast Guard official VSR Murthy said nearly a dozen ships, patrol vessels, surveillance aircraft and helicopters have been deployed, but India "found nothing so far".

And Thailand calls off the search. Plane seems to have safely landed somewhere and hidden undercover. Fate of Pax unknown. Most likely culprit would be captain and his co pilot with other accomplices to keep pax under control. Plane was hiding on the international busy air routes trying to avoid suspicion and radar coverage. It could have been done by the Captain who was having his own simulators trying to gain extra skills to already successful career.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 15 Mar 2014 21:46

The other point is that by now the area seen on the satellites has been surrounded by enough warships and helicopter presence, so it is OK to release what the governments know. Hope James Bond and Alistair McLean herrows are there by now too.

P.S. Look on Google satellite maps: Indian ocean is not as empty as it first looks. Around Cocos and Keeling Island (well west of Indonesia) there are a number of peaks coming up from the depths, probably lots of small islands.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 15 Mar 2014 21:53

UB and A_Gupta, My understanding of the ACARS equipment is it is a two part system. The circuit breaker can toggle between the transmission system and data gathering system. Those who turned of the ACARS turned of the data gathering only and not the transmitting system as it is inaccessible. Maybe they thought plane's position is not gathered and that is sufficient disabling.
By now I thought Boeing or some aviation enthusiast would post a cut away of he plane to show how difficult it is. After the twin Kilo mishaps the net was agog with cutaway drawings.

Now my theory of why the Malaysians were giving contra statements. Recall same day some big wig Malay politician was sent to jail. Maybe the Malays thought the plane was commandeered by folks sympathetic to the politician and hence kept it low profile hoping it would blow over. Malays have double H&D problems: Chinese influence and Islamists.

Hoping the crisis would become quiet on its own they gave misleading statements.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 15 Mar 2014 21:54

My tonight ct is was carrying giant shipment of priceless art, gold or gems for some gvt slush fund deal and someone else took it off the table.

as in die hard-1, behind the tfta German gang nd weapons, was just a plain robbery.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 15 Mar 2014 21:57

Jhujar wrote:Nou Pakistan have been shown well within the Arc , how long will it take before Satyamev Jayte hapen?GOP, etc have been very quiet on this issue. No sympathy for the Beerather Malaysian Government at all.

Please note , Pakistan have now answered, responded very promptly..

http://www.dawn.com/news/1093340/pakist ... -territory
Pakistan dismisses reports of Malaysian jet in its territory 40 minutes ago

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan's top aviation official on Saturday dismissed Western media reports that missing Malaysian airliner might be hidden somewhere in the country.“It’s wrong, plane never came towards Pakistan,” Special Assistant to the Prime Minister on Aviation Shujaat Azeem told Dawn.com.His attention was drawn on the reports which said the disappeared plane could have potentially reached as far as Pakistan. “Pakistan's civil aviation radars ( What about Military ones?0said.Azeem said the plane disappeared far away from Pakistani air space and was not visible on its radars, “so how it could be hidden somewhere in Pakistan.” However, he said that his division was on alert and following all developments related to the incident. Previous scenarios included a sudden mid-air explosion, catastrophic equipment or structural failure, or a crash into the South China Sea. But Najib's announcement opened a whole new avenue of speculation including an attempted 9/11-style attack.The 9/11 hijackers had turned off the transponders of three of the four planes that were commandeered. Transponders transmit data on a plane's location to air traffic controllers.Most of the plane's passengers were Chinese and the Malaysian leader's remarks did little to ease the nerves of anguished relatives gathered at a hotel in Beijing.“I feel (Malaysia Airlines) has been playing a role in the incident,” said Wen Wancheng ( Ahuja's Jernail) , whose son was aboard, suspecting “a conspiracy.” He remained hopeful his son was alive.The airline defended its handling of the crisis, which it called “an unprecedented situation for Malaysia Airlines and for the entire aviation industry.”

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 15 Mar 2014 21:58

If I were an aircraft manufacturer/airline, I'd put in systems that cant be disabled from within the aircraft. I'd also make it such that the satellite pings cant be disabled when the engine is running. What possible justification could there be to disable all satellite comms from the cockpit in a commercial airliner that too when the engine is running?

Malaysia better start investigating the ground crew as well. It cant be just the pilots.

^^^
They took their previous statements, replaced "Osama Bin Laden" with "Malaysian Jet" and released it. "Osama Bin Laden never came to Pakistan, it is not possible to bypass the wall of TFTA guards"

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 15 Mar 2014 21:58

Cannot a GPS signal(handshake) on say a mobile now l be tracked if it is switched on ??

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 15 Mar 2014 21:59

UlanBatori wrote:Guptaji: Because they were all waiting for someone else to release the detailed info. And you can't go tell the Malaysians:
Hey, stop searching and look over here, under the Indian Ocean 2000 miles south of Sri Lanka where we saw a flash after your flight should have run out of fuel!

At this point, I think you are deliberately being dense. They could say, just as they did today, that though ACARS was turned off, the plane continued to ping the satellites, and the plane continued flying for 7 hours after take off, and was likely not in the Gulf of Thailand.

I am not suggesting they should have given away their secret technology and say "Hey, stop searching and look over here, under the Indian Ocean 2000 miles south of Sri Lanka where we saw a flash after your flight should have run out of fuel!".

I will say one last time, and if you don't get it, it might be best you go back into hibernation - I don't see any reason the "information" they have "revealed" today could not have been "revealed' six days ago, and you have provided none.

Rajiv Lather · Post by **Rajiv Lather** » 15 Mar 2014 22:03

Heard of Bermuda triangle ? Closer home, we have Golden Triangle. Here the drug runners have been known to use well hidden airstrips to smuggle their product by air. They also have infrastructure to house and feed the guests.

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 15 Mar 2014 22:04

Based on present data, it is increasingly clear to me is that this is an op conducted by professionals.

It only remains to be determined whether these professionals report to state or 'non state' agencies.

That the latter could possess this standard of competence is terrifying to contemplate.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 15 Mar 2014 22:08

Why terrifying Baikul-ji? Usually "Non-state actors" are retired, rogue professionals on vacation leave.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 15 Mar 2014 22:14

Looking at vast outsourcing even by culinary Agency to contractors not bound by any laws to circumvent oversight and laws, i would say even in west, there is no more a huge diff..just shades of grey.

same as tsp, useful cats paws sometimes.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 15 Mar 2014 22:18

Playboy pilot at controls of MH370 had a track record of inviting pretty passengers into his cockpit where he smoked and posed for snaps
Pilot also under investigation.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 15 Mar 2014 22:21

Sure enough, the sales pitches begin.
NY Times
http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2014/03/ ... ce.html?hp

Whatever truly happened to missing Malaysian Airlines flight MH370, its apparently unchallenged wanderings through Asian skies point to major gaps in regional - and perhaps wider - air defences.

.....
.....
"Several nations will be embarrassed by how easy it is to trespass their airspace," said Air Vice Marshal Michael Harwood, a retired British Royal Air Force pilot and ex-defense attache to Washington DC. "Too many movies and Predator (unmanned military drone) feeds from Afghanistan have suckered people into thinking we know everything and see everything. You get what you pay for. And the world, by and large, does not pay."

The article does point out that people don't see it to be necessary.

"We have our radars, we use them, we train with them, but it's not a place where we have (much) to watch out for," he said. "My take is that this is a pretty peaceful place."

No doubt the equipment vendors would like to change that.

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 15 Mar 2014 22:25

Anujan ji, even the 911 pilots were essentially students who took enough classes to crash a plane on target. The pigs who were at the sharp end of 26/11 were in the end suicidal tools with a few weeks of training. The people who trained them used these tools as essentially blunt objects.

This is different. It appears to be choreographed with the precision of a Bolshoi ballet. If it's non state, tactics just got taken to a whole new level.

Edit: To clarify by non-state I mean literally terrorist outfits, and not the Pakistani version where the state and non state are the same thing.

vina · Post by **vina** » 15 Mar 2014 22:35

even the 911 pilots were essentially students who took enough classes to crash a plane on target

I doubt that "few classes" and students bit. They could navigate to New York from Boston, and fly with precision into a the twin towers at high speeds with great accuracy at low levels. That high speed flight at low levels is not an easy thing to do, especially in a largish plane like the ones that hit the twin towers , fully loaded with fuel and hit bulls eye. A few degrees to the left or right would be a big miss and crash and a crash into the Hudson or East river or the PANYNJ harbour ,or a miss of Manhattan altogether.

I agree with Enqyoob who used to post here earlier

. They were trained pilots who had handled fighters before and were trained elsewhere , the coursework if any in flying schools were probably to familiarise with the type they got to fly.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 15 Mar 2014 22:42

Pakis could be root cause of all this mysterious disappearance of MH370 as in any unfortunate events around the world. trail always points to paki hand and they usually deny.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 15 Mar 2014 22:43

A_Gupta wrote:
UlanBatori wrote:Guptaji: Because they were all waiting for someone else to release the detailed info. And you can't go tell the Malaysians:
Hey, stop searching and look over here, under the Indian Ocean 2000 miles south of Sri Lanka where we saw a flash after your flight should have run out of fuel!
At this point, I think you are deliberately being dense. They could say, just as they did today, that though ACARS was turned off, the plane continued to ping the satellites, and the plane continued flying for 7 hours after take off, and was likely not in the Gulf of Thailand.

I am not suggesting they should have given away their secret technology and say "Hey, stop searching and look over here, under the Indian Ocean 2000 miles south of Sri Lanka where we saw a flash after your flight should have run out of fuel!".

I will say one last time, and if you don't get it, it might be best you go back into hibernation - I don't see any reason the "information" they have "revealed" today could not have been "revealed' six days ago, and you have provided none.

Thank you. You do seem to be a bit stressed.

And with a bit of further exertion you may be able to understand that six days ago there were no surface resources or helicopter that could have reached a remote location, 2000 miles from nearest port, so it would have given the game away to any terrorists and signed the passengers' death warrant before anyone could do anything useful. And neither you nor anyone else spending their days in Internet Fora know what the governments and action teams actually conveyed, and to whom. They could not, for instance, tell the search teams in Malaysia: "OK, stop looking in South China Sea" And Oh! BTW, don't tell the Taliban, but we know they are hiding out at Cocos Islands!"

Or, horror of horrors, did they keep their knowledge to themselves and not tell us!!!!! Or CNN!!! At 20 knots, sailing 24 hrs a day, you go around 500 miles. It takes 4 or 5 days' sailing just to go 2000 miles after you have got underway. Just out of curiosity, how would you have set up a rescue operation for 230 ppl being held hostage by say 50 terrorists in a well-prepared holdout, 2000 miles in the ocean?

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 15 Mar 2014 22:47

it seems to be too smart a hijacking ,to be done by baaki biraathers...