Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 15 Mar 2014 22:50

I agree. The lack of bragging is a giveaway, it cannot be Pakis.

bhargava · Post by **bhargava** » 15 Mar 2014 23:00

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 15 Mar 2014 23:00

Vina ji, I am no expert, or even a knowledgeable amateur, so I'll bow out of the question of the piloting skills required to pull off 911- even though it was I who started with the reference. However, I stand by my original contention that is a very skilled operation, and probably not the typical hijack.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 15 Mar 2014 23:04

My friend Strobe says: "Malaysian plane mystery: Direction, fuel load & range now lead some to suspect hijackers planned a 9/11-type attack on an Indian city."

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 15 Mar 2014 23:04

bhargava wrote:

These are all pre-emptive strikes because there will be the truth that will come out. Cooking up plausible deniability

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 15 Mar 2014 23:05

gakakkad wrote:it seems to be too smart a hijacking ,to be done by baaki biraathers...

baakis could be a good foot soldiers of the masters who planned this.

ManuJ · Post by **ManuJ** » 15 Mar 2014 23:09

If transponders are much easier to disable than ACARS, why was the latter disabled significantly before the former?
If the pilots were part of the hijackers, they would have disabled the transponders first.
Were the hijackers working in stealth mode first and then forced access to the cockpit later?
But then the pilot would had time to signal distress...
Maybe the pilot knew that shutting off ACARS would not be noticed till later...so maybe he was involved!
Argh...too much confusion only.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 15 Mar 2014 23:09

Search Banda Aceh properly or some teeny IO island. This might be kept in handy for a strike on India around May 16th. By then it will be declared missing over the ocean. The plane would be well stocked with ammo/ bombs whatever..and then the inaugration. Need to explore that option. They may use the passengers as a human shield in the venture..

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 15 Mar 2014 23:10

What if someone figured out how to send transponder signals from a variety of places all over the world, after killing the airliner in some deep hole on day 1? This would destroy confidence in the entire global network. Someone who can figure out not only where to find these gizmos and destroy them, but also how to get on board etc, is also smart enough to figure out how to create signals giving false airliner IDS, hain? So tomorrow the signals may come from the English Channel? Bermuda Triangle? North Pole? Center of Kansas city? Odessa?

Rajiv Lather · Post by **Rajiv Lather** » 15 Mar 2014 23:11

Who planned 9/11 ? This is a notch below in sophistication, command & control etc. One would think both events have the same parents.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 15 Mar 2014 23:14

UlanBatori wrote: And with a bit of further exertion you may be able to understand that six days ago there were no surface resources or helicopter that could have reached a remote location, 2000 miles from nearest port,

Right, in the middle of Kazakhstan.

... so it would have given the game away to any terrorists and signed the passengers' death warrant before anyone could do anything useful.

Already mentioned that the only bonafide reason for deception is the above, so you're telling me nothing new.

And neither you nor anyone else spending their days in Internet Fora know what the governments and action teams actually conveyed, and to whom. They could not, for instance, tell the search teams in Malaysia: "OK, stop looking in South China Sea"

The questions are (a) Why not? and (b) Why is no one asking that question? I don't see that in the MSM, or on BRF, except for "stressed me".

Or, horror of horrors, did they keep their knowledge to themselves and not tell us!!!!! Or CNN!!! At 20 knots, sailing 24 hrs a day, you go around 500 miles. It takes 4 or 5 days' sailing just to go 2000 miles after you have got underway.

And there are assets now in place to undertake a rescue/recovery in the South Indian Ocean?

And this deception was pretty elaborate. The USS Kidd moved from the Gulf of Thailand to the Malacca Strait just on Thursday/Friday.

Just out of curiosity, how would you have set up a rescue operation for 230 ppl being held hostage by say 50 terrorists in a well-prepared holdout, 2000 miles in the ocean?

Certainly not by searching in the Gulf of Thailand.

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 15 Mar 2014 23:14

bhargava wrote:

it is almost certain that this thread has quite a following...

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 15 Mar 2014 23:18

Extremely serious if civilians air crafts are misused in cowardly attack. It is completely hostile and deceptive scheming when our defense and policies are in pause during election time.

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 15 Mar 2014 23:20

why would someone use a malaysian airline with chinese passengers to whack an India city ?

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 15 Mar 2014 23:22

UlanBatori wrote:What if someone figured out how to send transponder signals from a variety of places all over the world, after killing the airliner in some deep hole on day 1? This would destroy confidence in the entire global network. Someone who can figure out not only where to find these gizmos and destroy them, but also how to get on board etc, is also smart enough to figure out how to create signals giving false airliner IDS, hain? So tomorrow the signals may come from the English Channel? Bermuda Triangle? North Pole? Center of Kansas city? Odessa?

Any ECE pandu would say it is not very difficult to accomplish if you know the frequency, Datagram and payload and data config and handshake requirement. Unless Satellite has means to detect the signal direction which could be available in military sats.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 15 Mar 2014 23:23

vishvak wrote:Extremely serious if civilians air crafts are misused in cowardly attack. It is completely hostile and deceptive scheming when our defense and policies are in pause during election time.

Boss go back a decade and half, read again the kargil report of late bishma pitahmah. International politics are cruel. Period. It took a lot of bloodshed before Roman empire fell. The modern Roman empire is nervous and you will see these kind of things. We are all living during interesting times.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 15 Mar 2014 23:24

gakakkad wrote:why would someone use a malaysian airline with chinese passengers to whack an India city ?

India and china should go to a war after a Nuke explosion by a flight that is destined to reach China. Purlia arms drop was also to trigger war.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 15 Mar 2014 23:25

Muppalla wrote:
bhargava wrote:
These are all pre-emptive strikes because there will be the truth that will come out. Cooking up plausible deniability

I told you.. some professional AF has dauda dauda ke maara the plane..

rgosain · Post by **rgosain** » 15 Mar 2014 23:26

I think what Strobe wants is for India to give in to all the demands of the USA, Pak, and the PRC or else...
He seems to be disappointed that this catastrophe has come to nought at this moment. As for the aircraft being Malaysian, that's just collateral damage. What it does mean is that unless it is found, the IAF and the Army should step the threat level, and perhaps deploy Akash which is suitable for this particular threat.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 15 Mar 2014 23:28

harbans wrote:My friend Strobe says: "Malaysian plane mystery: Direction, fuel load & range now lead some to suspect hijackers planned a 9/11-type attack on an Indian city."

CT
Snake just shed the tail skin. It make sense now to have Barkley grouping and AAP going Monkey. Think of Communal riots after this kind of event. Turd Bhai 's recommendation for Tehrir Maidan etc. OTOH, is AK doing his Nautanki to get out of this Jam by deliberately loosing credibility .

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 15 Mar 2014 23:31

Missing aircraft couldn’t have entered our airspace undetected: India

India is scrambling to prevent BoB becoming playground of ostensibly friendly forces in the name of SAR.Esp when Arihant is out for sea trials with reactors fully operational.

KOLKATA: A search of all islands in the Andaman and Nicobar archipelago has drawn a naught, so far as the missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 is concerned, officials of the Andaman and Nicobar Command (ANC) confirmed on Saturday evening. Two Indian Navy ships, along with those from other nations, are continuing their search at the location pointed out by Malaysian authorities but nothing has been spotted on the water.

Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 disappeared on March 8, 2014 on the way to Beijing from Kuala Lumpur.

"There has been no oil slick, no flotsam or a sonar ping to indicate that the jetliner crashed anywhere close to where the search operations are being carried out. Details available with us are vague. Our search teams require a particular starting point from where to begin looking. We have searched all the islands but there were no signs of the aircraft," Rear Admiral Sudhir Pillai, chief of staff, ANC, said.

READ ALSO: 'Missing jet's transponder was deliberately disabled'

Air traffic controllers at Kolkata have also ruled out the possibility of the missing aircraft flying through Indian airspace, one of the two possibilities that Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak suggested at a news conference in Kuala Lumpur on Saturday. If this theory was correct, the aircraft couldn't have avoided the Kolkata Flight Information Region.

The other alternative route that the flight, whose communication system is now believed to have been deliberately disabled, is to the Indian Ocean south of the Malacca Strait where the plane was last sighted on a Malaysian military radar. According to Pillai, this would have taken the aircraft south of the Andamans.

Speaking to TOI, air traffic controllers' guild secretary Sugata Pramanik said that while flight MH370 could have avoided detection on the Secondary Surveillance Radar, the blip by the huge Boeing 777-200 ER aircraft would surely have been spotted by the Indian Air Force that uses primary surveillance radars to detect such intrusions.

"If an aircraft wants to avoid being seen, they can easily become invisible to civilian radar by switching off the transponder. But it cannot avoid defence systems. The IAF has radars in multiple installations across the country and it is inconceivable that none of them spotted the odd blip with no flight clearance," he said. There are nine air defence identification zones in the country that are manned 24x7 to prevent an enemy aircraft from violating Indian airspace.

READ ALSO: Satellites scour Earth for clues

According Guild member Sushil Mondal, all hell would break loose if the IAF detected an aircraft that did not have air defence clearance. Any plane flying through Indian airspace is first required to submit the flight plan and manifest to the air traffic controls in its flight path. This is then relayed to the air force for permission.

"There are times when the Air Force finds a blip that does not match a flight plan. That usually happens when flight plans going missing at their end due to a system or link failure. They then immediately contact us for information. If the plane flight plan isn't of suspicious nature, a clearance is granted. Or else, it is asked to return to wherever it came from. In case, we too don't have any information of the aircraft, there will be trouble and the Air Force scramble jets to take the plane down. Nothing of the kind happened last Saturday," said Mondal.

Recently, the IAF scrambled a Su-30MKI in the western sector after noticing an unidentified 'blip' crossing over from Pakistan, It turned out to be a weather balloon.

Kolkata airport has an Automatic Dependence Surveillance Radar and Controller-Pilot Datalink Communication that enables it to not only trail planes when it is in the radar zone of 60 nautical miles or nearly 120 km and beyond through very high frequency radio but also through the data link when the plane goes out of voice communication range. There are large areas in the Kolkata Flight Information Region, particularly over Bay of Bengal, that have no radar coverage at present.

A radar has been installed in Andaman and Nicobar Islands, but is yet to be commissioned.

Officials suspect that there is an arrangement between Malaysia and US agencies. Not sufficient of what Malaysia knows is being transmitted to India or other countries involved in a 'wild goose chase'.

Saral · Post by **Saral** » 15 Mar 2014 23:38

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

Pilot is the only plausible person of interest here (co-pilot will also be focus if warranted). Likely, everyone on the passenger list has been ruled out. The pilot is an Anwar Ibrahim sympathizer (see his twitter following list) and with high probability was upset that day due to the jail sentence. https://twitter.com/ZAHARIES/following A sensitive chap with lots of imagination. Probably miscalculated and the plane eventually crashed. No complicated hijacking scenarios or nefarious plans needed.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 15 Mar 2014 23:41

Atri wrote:
Muppalla wrote:
These are all pre-emptive strikes because there will be the truth that will come out. Cooking up plausible deniability
I told you.. some professional AF has dauda dauda ke maara the plane..

Atri ji,
on the 18th page of this fast moving thread a useless conspiracy theorist worte:

Muppalla wrote:
Singha wrote:So what was the target and who shot it down?
TWIW

The target was Vizag -Arihant. "Tackled to go down (not shot)" by the forces in A&N and no claims or allegations because the perpetrator's name will be out. It is a op to create war like conditions between India and China. Period.

Now we see the actual guys coming out and saying similar things. I will bet truth will never come out. We all live for another day. Next two years will be like pre-parakram days.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 15 Mar 2014 23:43

What India is signalling to the rest is that BoB is a NOGO Zone for them and give us data we will check it out for you. Till then Bug Off.

Rajiv Lather · Post by **Rajiv Lather** » 15 Mar 2014 23:43

I think the 'Khobragade' event has cause a slight tilt in our outlook. There is no way Unkle Skam will try to use an airliner flying with 158 Chinese passengers. The perpetrators in this case are the usual suspects.

There is this small matter of delayed release of satellite data and who knows this data may have already been passed on to the Chinese in private. If not; the Chinese will get even some day.

Remember, only three countries are important enough to be a target of such an operation - India, China or the US.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 15 Mar 2014 23:51

Note for India:

1. Flight information about Airbus, Boeing that would be useful in hijack/accident situations is tied up with the Western powers. If they don't want to cooperate, India will not be able to get that information.

2. India has no alternative to using Airbus, Boeing.

3. India has satellite coverage over a substantial area of operation of Indian-run aircraft. India should install **additional** equipment on Indian carriers so that India is not made "blind" like Malaysia seems to have been rendered. (Maybe they already have, unpublicized, in which case, good for them!)

4. Because India is and will continue to be a target for terrorism into the indefinite future, this ability to independently track Indian assets should be undertaken with some urgency.

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 15 Mar 2014 23:54

chaanakya wrote:What India is signalling to the rest is that BoB is a NOGO Zone for them and give us data we will check it out for you. Till then Bug Off.

Can't do, perhaps you meant Indian waters. In BoB international waters anybody can go and do anything they want without asking. If there is ulterior motive against India, they would use this incident to get inside Indian waters and AFAIK that hasn't happened yet. However, everyone now knows that A&N is radar-nanga for all practical purposes. Good going, AKA.

Rajagopal · Post by **Rajagopal** » 15 Mar 2014 23:55

Expect the below course of action from the hijackers:.

1) This particular flight was chosen after lots of research. It took off after dark, into an area of minimal radar coverage over water, and had enough fuel to land in daylight at a clandestine location.

2) Contrary to a lot of comments, the 777 could be landed on even a dirt field as short as 4000 ft. and takeoff again after removal of equipment and safety conservatisms built into the flight manual takeoff field length data. This is obviously a well-planned venture, which is scary.

3) The aircraft has been repainted to fit the description of another plane. Necessary modifications are retro fitted and made ready for it to be flown again.

4) I would look for the "guided missile" phase of this plan to happen sooner, rather than later. The craft, if it initially landed in an outlying location, has probably already been moved to a new, location.

This whole epsiode should further demonstrate and underscore to the World the insidious nature of Islam and how easily even so-called "good Muslims" with sparkling reputations can be co-opted by their criminal cult "religion". It is truly a sickness and blight on the planet that will have consequences on every one of us.

Citizens and Netizens should force the governments of the world to *NOT* allow anyone with Islamic background anywhere near the cockpit. This is the least we owe ourselves and families.

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 16 Mar 2014 00:00

Another pilot on CNN says that since both ACARS and transponder were switched off before last radio contact with Malaysian ATC, the needle of suspicion falls squarely on whoever spoke from the cockpit. There is no way the cockpit would be unaware that both had been turned off. It is assumed that it was the captain who said "All right, good night" but that needs to be confirmed.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 16 Mar 2014 00:05

777-200 series plus any aircraft with Autopilot feature are equipped with GPS transceiver and is in constant communication with GPS satellite constellation. It can not be turned off. Without GPS functional it would be difficult to control the plane manually and land it anywhere unless airstrip is within visual range.

DFDR records precise coordinates and US GPS systems would have info where the plane is.

No Autopilot would work without GPS ( GLONASS) and way points are nothing but GPS coordiates of Lat long .

For ref on GPS
http://www.deltava.org/library/B777%20Manual.pdf

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 16 Mar 2014 00:07

A_Gupta wrote:Note for India:

1. Flight information about Airbus, Boeing that would be useful in hijack/accident situations is tied up with the Western powers. If they don't want to cooperate, India will not be able to get that information.

2. India has no alternative to using Airbus, Boeing.

3. India has satellite coverage over a substantial area of operation of Indian-run aircraft. India should install **additional** equipment on Indian carriers so that India is not made "blind" like Malaysia seems to have been rendered. (Maybe they already have, unpublicized, in which case, good for them!)

4. Because India is and will continue to be a target for terrorism into the indefinite future, this ability to independently track Indian assets should be undertaken with some urgency.

Embraer.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 16 Mar 2014 00:08

GPS is receive only. No transmit business. To transmit you needed to find another way.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 16 Mar 2014 00:09

chaanakya wrote:Embraer.

Not in the large aircraft category..

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 16 Mar 2014 00:11

Victor wrote:
chaanakya wrote:What India is signalling to the rest is that BoB is a NOGO Zone for them and give us data we will check it out for you. Till then Bug Off.
Can't do, perhaps you meant Indian waters. In BoB international waters anybody can go and do anything they want without asking. If there is ulterior motive against India, they would use this incident to get inside Indian waters and AFAIK that hasn't happened yet. However, everyone now knows that A&N is radar-nanga for all practical purposes. Good going, AKA.

no I didn't say "can" or "can't" but that it is signalling.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 16 Mar 2014 00:12

Saral wrote:
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
Pilot is the only plausible person of interest here (co-pilot will also be focus if warranted). Likely, everyone on the passenger list has been ruled out. The pilot is an Anwar Ibrahim sympathizer (see his twitter following list) and with high probability was upset that day due to the jail sentence. https://twitter.com/ZAHARIES/following A sensitive chap with lots of imagination. Probably miscalculated and the plane eventually crashed. No complicated hijacking scenarios or nefarious plans needed.

[CT goggles on.]
If pilot smokes and invites pretty faces in cabin during long flight routes, he could be perhaps (or made to look so by powers that be) himself used to illegal trade operations in SEA region; or such a pilot is made use of in conspiracy. Therefore another look at passenger list to see who didn't board and did board (immigrants or some others who did board without being noticed unlike 2 Iranian immigrants) might be helpful. Malaysia got bad press and focus of terrorism shifts to SEA region(including social media) while middle east continues quietly in jihad way without much focus. Chinese have built railways and even helped paki nuke program and pakis are paying back with paki product of terrorism.
[/CT goggles off.]

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 16 Mar 2014 00:12

Karan M wrote:
chaanakya wrote:Embraer.
Not in the large aircraft category..

yes. you are right.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 16 Mar 2014 00:20

Guys, I have another thought. A few years ago, I had a friend who was a brilliant mathematician doing his Ph.D., but suffered from Bipolar mental disease. When the guy took his medication, he was as normal and creative as one can get, but when he skipped his medication, he was frighteningly abnormal, crazy, obnoxious, and above all suicidal. Moreover, at the slightest provocation, he would snap, especially if as I said, he did not take his medication. During one such incident, his Ph.D. adviser said something about his performance, and for several hours, he appeared normal, but then just snapped and hurled himself before a train and was blown to pieces.

Could it be, just could it be, that the main pilot was suffering from such a hard core mental disease and he hid it, and so did his doctor or whoever else knew it, from the world? So that night, he simply snapt, and just went crazy? And as I said about my friend, I wouldn't read too much into his last statement, namely, "good night, everything is normal" or whatever normal sounding phrase he used. He might have been simmering inside himself, and when he saw the quiet of the night and the stars and the empty space outside the cockpit, he just went berserk and said to himself, I am going to go and join that "peace"?

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 16 Mar 2014 00:24

That is a definite possibility.

Here is my thought on a data point: The rapid accent and consequent decent may be to ward off those trying to barge into the cockpit.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 16 Mar 2014 00:24

LokeshC wrote:GPS is receive only. No transmit business. To transmit you needed to find another way.

Have you seen how ambulance is tracked from control room? And you missed the word transceiver.

From Wiki.

Boeing 777 has first three.

GPS aircraft tracking solution needs a device embedded in the aircraft and made of a GPS sensor. It transmits in real time or not the GPS position received on board to a server on ground via a communication network. The server collects the data. Data received on ground can be recorded and/or used to display the aircraft real time position. Different kinds of communication networks are used to transmit data on ground:

ACARS network which is a hybrid of VHF, Satellite and HF networks
Transponder "Mode S" (ADS-B) network
Satellite network (Globalstar, Inmarsat, IRIDIUM, Thuraya)
GSM network

Device embedded in the aircraft may be avionics components like for ACARS or ADS-B solutions. In these cases, antenna are located outside of the airframe.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 16 Mar 2014 00:25

CRamS wrote: Could it be, just could it be, that the main pilot was suffering from such a hard core mental disease and he hid it, and so did his doctor or whoever else knew it, from the world? So that night, he simply snapt, and just went crazy? And as I said about my friend, I wouldn't read too much into his last statement, namely, "good night, everything is normal" or whatever normal sounding phrase he used. He might have been simmering inside himself, and when he saw the quiet of the night and the stars and the empty space outside the cockpit, he just went berserk and said to himself, I am going to go and join that "peace"?

And so turned off the transponder, and the ACARs and .... instead of promptly plunging the plane into the sea?