Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 17 Mar 2014 09:14

If it really was a jihadi trial the Pakistan have opened a second front against us.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 17 Mar 2014 09:17

shiv wrote:
A_Gupta wrote:There is no press statement anywhere about the military radar observing that kind of descent.
Is there any report about the altitude at which the military radar monitored the unidentified aircraft.

As far as I have been able to surmise the military radar followed an unidentified aircraft and did not know it was flt 370. Clearly that did not arouse their suspicion if reports are to be believed. After the flight went missing they have gone back and looked at their data and then realized that "Duh - here is an unidentified aircraft trace".

Is there an assumption that the unidentified aircraft was actually flt 370 or could it have been some other aircraft. To confirm that the Malaysian radar operators should have records that identify ever single radar return they have got during that period along with ATC corroboration from the civilian set up. The IAF has that as per reports, but do the Malaysians have that?

What is the evidence that the military radar picked up flt 370 and not some other aircraft?

Yes, the military radar is said to have picked up the plane at 45,000 feet. There is doubt thrown on the altitude accuracy of the radar at the distance the plane was picked up. There is nothing in the press about the military radar having detected a steep descent; all they say is that it crossed the peninsula averaging around 23,000 feet (after having been at 45,000 feet).

That what the radar picked up is MH370 is somewhat of an assumption - right place, right time sort of thing. I think that they could make it more firm that it was the MH370 - by showing that the 2:11 AM satellite ping is consistent the position detected by the military radar.

vina · Post by **vina** » 17 Mar 2014 09:38

I think that it is the Malaysians who Have Bin Fartin.

The first week search in the Gulf of Thailand was all a dog and pony show. And that news of searching the pilots house and computers only now is pure Bull Shit . They would have done that within 45 minutes of the hijack.

I am absolutely sure that they have the full info and have been contacted, but are hiding the fact. All plausible theories lead to a pilot driven soo-side acting on a lone wolf basis for now. Motivation ? If the reports of the pilot being an Anwar Ibrahim sympathizer and the date of the soo-side coincides for Anwar's incarceration by the totalitarian malyasian govt , and that is the reason the pilot gave to the Malaysians, you can bet your last farthing that the Malaysians are not going to disclose it.

The Malaysians have been keeping quiet and ignoring offers for help from everyone, including Unkil in the investigation. They surely know why this happened and who did it. They are just not talking.

And oh, the Yindoos, the cowardly dhotiwallahs are not talking about what the Andamans radars tracked either. They are putting up the oh, we are so incompetent , we usually switch off our radars and shiver in our dhotis routine. And finally, the very outspoken ex Admiral putting things across to the Malysians bluntly and the "pause" called, resulting in the Malysian PM calling the Indian PM and asking for help. Some plain talking would have happened at that call I am sure, with the Indians telling the Malaysians to spill the beans fully first.

If the plane is soo-sided because of Anwar Ibrahim's treatment, the Malaysians have some serious egg on their faces, blood in their hands and an imminent beating from everyone in the world. They will do their utmost to hide it.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 17 Mar 2014 09:39

A very careful and precise retrospective:
http://avherald.com/h?article=4710c69b&opt=0

About the only steep descent:

On Mar 8th 2014 aviation sources in China reported that radar data suggest a steep and sudden descent of the aircraft, during which the track of the aircraft changed from 024 degrees to 333 degrees.

anmol · Post by **anmol** » 17 Mar 2014 09:49

Two interesting theories(from pilots):

https://plus.google.com/106271056358366 ... oeVjHJaGBz

http://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/2 ... an/cg40h2o

Missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370: Did jetliner fly into area controlled by Taliban? Net widens after claims final satellite signal could have been sent from the ground

The Independent
by Kunal Dutta and Andrew Buncombe and David Keys, independent.co.uk
March 16th 2014

Eight days after Flight MH370 vanished, Malaysian authorities are seeking diplomatic permission to investigate a theory that the Boeing 777 may have been flown under the radar to Taliban-controlled bases on the border of Afghanistan and North West Pakistan, The Independent has learnt.

[..]

Last night sources in Kuala Lumpur assisting with the investigation told The Independent that full diplomatic permissions were being sought in order to rule out the theory that the plane could have flown to areas of Afghanistan and Pakistan that are not under government control.

Large areas of the southern half of Afghanistan are ruled by the Afghan Taliban, while some areas of north-west Pakistan, adjacent to or near to the Afghan border, are controlled by the Pakistani Taliban

A spokesman for Malaysian Airlines said: “These are matters for the jurisdiction of those regions and Malaysia’s armed forces and department of civil aviation. In regard to Pakistan and Afghanistan, we cannot explore those theories without permission. We hope to have that soon.”

For a commercial plane to pass undetected through these regions, which are highly militarised with robust air defence networks, many run by the US military, would require a combination of extremely sophisticated navigation, brazen audacity and security failure by those monitoring international airspace. However, with so little known about the fate of the plane, and the investigation growing in scale every day, it is yet another line of enquiry that remains impossible to rule out. On Sunday Pakistani civil aviation officials said they had checked their radar recordings and found no sign of the missing jet.

[..]
Reuters reported police had said their inquiries had found no links between Captain Shah and any militant group.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 17 Mar 2014 09:52

The NYTimes had this (they haven't been good at making corrections when they've gotten things wrong, so pinch of salt):
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/16/world ... t-370.html

A British Royal Air Force base in the colonial era, the Malaysian air force base at Butterworth sits on the mainland across from the island of Penang at the northern reaches of the Strait of Malacca. There, in the early morning hours of March 8, the four-person crew watching for intrusions into the country’s airspace either did not notice or failed to report a blip on their defensive radar and air traffic radar that was moving steadily across the country from east to west, heading right toward them, said the person with knowledge of the matter.

Neither that team nor the crews at two other radar installations at Kota Bharu, closer to where the airliner last had contact with the ground, designated the blip as an unknown intruder warranting attention, the person said. The aircraft proceeded to fly across the country and out to sea without anyone on watch telling a superior and alerting the national defense command near Kuala Lumpur, even though the radar contact’s flight path did not correspond to any filed flight plan.

As a result, combat aircraft never scrambled to investigate. The plane, identified at the time by Mr. Najib as Flight 370, passed directly over Penang, a largely urban state with more than 1.6 million people, then turned and headed out over the Strait of Malacca.

The existence of the radar contact was discovered only when military officials began reviewing tapes later in the morning on March 8, after the passenger jet failed to arrive in Beijing. It was already becoming clear that morning, only hours after the unauthorized flyover, that something had gone very wrong. Tapes from both the Butterworth and Kota Bharu bases showed the radar contact arriving from the area of the last known position of Flight 370, the person familiar with the investigation said.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 17 Mar 2014 10:12

anmol wrote:https://plus.google.com/106271056358366 ... oeVjHJaGBz

http://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/2 ... an/cg40h2o

Good finds. That sharp left turn is curious. At that point the pilot must know that radar would immediately pick it up. Why not continue on schedule path and delay the left turn. If there was a fire and the breakers were thrown to stop it, thus disabling the ACARS then the timeline claimed by Malaysia that ACARS was disabled before the last communication must be wrong. That is the key piece of data now.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 17 Mar 2014 10:26

We need a raf style coastal cmd with Bristol beaufighter and de Havilland modquito.

niran · Post by **niran** » 17 Mar 2014 10:50

shiv wrote:That military radar that picked up the aircraft.. what altitude did it detect?

around 38000 feet, so the earliest NEWS report said, it was a Vietnamese Military Radar
and it was reported of loosing contact due sudden dive 15 minutes later the alarm was raised.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 17 Mar 2014 10:52

Imo after flying around a while over the sea, in talks with Malay leaders,
the place could have landed in some Malay base itself and talks are on.
due to Chinese pax the issue got hot.

among everyone trying to play games or save face, i hope at least the innocent pax are safe.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 17 Mar 2014 11:44

Kuala Lumpur: Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 dropped to altitudes as low as 1524 metres (5000 feet) using a dangerous flying technique called “terrain masking” to avoid radar in at least three countries, investigators believe.

......

“All right, good night,” some-one in the cockpit had said calmly, seemingly to mislead ground control that anything was wrong.

Investigators believe that by following commercial routes the plane did not raise the suspicion of people monitoring radar of the countries it overflew.

Terrain masking is used by military pilots for stealth flights. Based on the estimated time in the air, authorities believe MH370 would have passed over two additional countries besides Malaysia, although it's not clear which ones.

Experts say flying a Boeing 777 in such a way would be dangerous, putting pressure on the 250 tonnes air frame and possibly causing those on board to be air sick.

The New Straits Times newspaper in Kuala Lumpur is quoting investigators as saying the “person who had control over the aircraft has a solid knowledge of avionics and navigation and left a clean track.”

It quotes investigation sources as confirming the plane flew low over Kelantan in peninsular Malaysia

http://www.theage.com.au/action/printAr ... d=30025203

Terrain masking !!

Waiting for them to now say that the plane took some rest on evergreen canopies of malay jungles and then ended its trip with an amphibious landing on waters overlooking remote beach in Thailand.

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 17 Mar 2014 12:16

Malay PM would not have called MMS and NS for help if the plane were still in Malasiya or SE Asia. There would be lots of red faces if it were to emerge that he was engaging in a coverup or his officials or his officials were doing hanky panky.

sohamn · Post by **sohamn** » 17 Mar 2014 12:32

the red arc is where the plane could be at this point of time. There is a possibility that the plane is getting ready as a long range cruise missile.

negi · Post by **negi** » 17 Mar 2014 12:38

How does flying below 1524 metres qualify as terrain masking specially if there is any truth to the story about the flight taking the Andaman route and then crossing into EU over India then significant portion of the flight path has to be over the sea , in order to evade a long range search radar over the sea one will have to fly lower than 1.5km . For military radars this height can be lower than 100 meters. Finally we are only talking about Radar in 3d search mode not track mode.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 17 Mar 2014 12:39

Or occam's razor says to search the sea thoroughly where the last radar contact was seen.

ManuJ · Post by **ManuJ** » 17 Mar 2014 12:55

If the satellite received multiple signals from the airliner at different intervals, why hasn't anyone released all the locations (arcs) of all the signals?
We should be able to construct the most possible route based on the last known position and the arc of each signal.

There seems to be selective (mis?)information sharing taking place...

partha · Post by **partha** » 17 Mar 2014 13:03

hahaha..everyone has their pet theory - http://keithledgerwood.tumblr.com/post/ ... sing-sia68

I'll stick to "rogue pilot tried to hijack but crashed the plane in Indian ocean" till we get new data.

partha · Post by **partha** » 17 Mar 2014 13:16

After misleading several nations participating in the search, Malaysia now declines US offer of help to probe the terror angle. I wonder whether China is shadow managing the search ops.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 17 Mar 2014 13:27

Malaysians are standing without chaddi in the public now. They are giving Kejriwal a run for his money with the kind of u turns and bizarre statements they ahve been making lately.

Rajiv Lather · Post by **Rajiv Lather** » 17 Mar 2014 13:31

It is ghostly quiet. I think we are about to get an official statement from the Malaysian PM.

partha · Post by **partha** » 17 Mar 2014 13:32

Rajiv Lather wrote:It is ghostly quiet. I think we are about to get an official statement from the Malaysian PM.

That search has expanded to whole of planet Earth?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 17 Mar 2014 13:43

sohamn wrote:the red arc is where the plane could be at this point of time. There is a possibility that the plane is getting ready as a long range cruise missile.

What is the exact reason why the plane cannot be in the gap between the two arcs?

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 17 Mar 2014 13:46

Yup, why can the aircraft have turned once more crossed Sumatra and then headed to Western Australia.

This mystery keeps getting deeper.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 17 Mar 2014 13:52

ok, lets say that the pilot was going to hijack the plane - and then do what?
if he wanted to make a political point - he would have done an A-o-A and then let everyone know before smacking it into something
or he would fly somewhere to seek asylum - australia most likely place
maybe the co-pilot wrested him down and they went A-o-A together unintentionally - somewhere in the australian outback

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 17 Mar 2014 14:08

The entire concept of terrorism revolves around people knowing about the suffering of fellow people and Re-living in fear. The media helps terrorism by showing the destruction, gore,blood and make people relive the pain. I don't see any bodies or wreckage in media. There is no fear mongering in media. Is this a new form of some Psy-War or a New World order? Someone sent a message to the world and sure they made a point.A new age SPECTRE?

Arunkumar · Post by **Arunkumar** » 17 Mar 2014 14:12

The entire narrative on desi and phoren channels seems to be one of agenda being spoon feed to people.
Why is MMS and NS being contacted by malaysian PM given so much publicity. Why not PM of bhutan, Nepal, Bangladesh?

Comer · Post by **Comer** » 17 Mar 2014 14:14

Sorry for asking a noob question after so many pages:
What is the last independently (not just Malaysia, China ) verified position of the plane? Runway?

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 17 Mar 2014 14:18

No alien abduction theories so far?

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 17 Mar 2014 14:18

there were a few...

member_27845 · Post by **member_27845** » 17 Mar 2014 14:25

http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking-ne ... 0-20140317

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 17 Mar 2014 14:37

OT alert (ref maps above on this page): Wonder why all these Western Maps including our Aaptard maps show Arunachal in dotted. If one party claims a territory does that imply the claimed region is shown dotted. India then should be claiming Tibet and KM at the minimum.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 17 Mar 2014 14:44

Lalmohan wrote:there were a few...

First claimed and reported by NSN.

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 17 Mar 2014 14:56

This incident is much more tragic than any fiction.
It started from missing plane to the script of Con Air where the transponder is replaced to avoid detection, to the script of Mission Impossible II which deals in crashing the plane to mask burglary and killing and to the script of The Spy Who Loved Me which involves disappearance of Submarines undetected.
How many twists waiting to be added further?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 17 Mar 2014 15:05

saravana wrote:Sorry for asking a noob question after so many pages:
What is the last independently (not just Malaysia, China ) verified position of the plane? Runway?

Somewhere along one of those two red arcs.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 17 Mar 2014 15:40

‘No distress signal from flight MH370 gives hope it wasn’t hijacked’

3: 30 pm: No hostage demands or distress signal gives hope flight wasn't hijacked, says authorities

Malaysia said that it had asked all nations where the aircraft could have gone to verify using ground and satellite information where the flight may have gone.

However, the government said that it was still focussed on finding the aircraft and it would not like to say for certain that the families of the passengers on board should fear the worst.

This is getting more and more ridiculous.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 17 Mar 2014 15:46

Remember the extreme deep invader ucav who gets emotional, sulks and deserts his unit for a while?
the capn sounds like that sort of man....highly technical, passionate about some cause but essentially decent.
we might find he flies the plane back from hiding tomorrow and courts arrest as a dissident icon.

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 17 Mar 2014 15:54

Could it be a super natural phenomenon/alien abduction and US knows about it & trying to contain the news?

That seems to be the only valid explanation after going through 34 pages of this thread.

Harpal Bector · Post by **Harpal Bector** » 17 Mar 2014 15:58

There is a sense of security that comes by making critical a/c systems unable to explicitly connect to a wireless or wired network protocol.

This may be a false sense of security as all chips on a motherboard are connected to each other via the ground wire and the idea of using this wire in a device as a network bus of some kind has been around for a long time. Currently this idea forms the core of home automation systems like Insteon which use the power cables to intelligently connect to and control each other.

Once you factor that possibility in, there is a vulnerability issue which can be potentially exploited and a malware can be installed.

Also every person on an airplane carries a phone or other mobile device. Each of those devices are networked and can be infiltrated. If a passenger or crew member puts their phone into a charger, then hacker could connect to the ground wire on the a/c. Post exploit the hack-jacker has the liberty to create as many other access points as needed using whatever protocols he chooses and tell the pilot that he has control and do exactly as he says.

The usual measures against malfunction like redundancy of autopilot systems etc... will be no use as the hackjacker could simply disable all of the alternatives.

Harpal Bector · Post by **Harpal Bector** » 17 Mar 2014 16:05

A_Gupta wrote:
Harpal Bector wrote:Has there been any unusual volume transaction or activity on the Bitcoin side?
Doesn't seem to be. But something to watch!
http://www.bitcoincharts.com/charts/

This is odd, I plotted the data on a wider timescale of 2 yrs and there is a morphological similar between the peak phenomena if you plot the rate of change/momentum. I don't think I have seen that before but it almost looks like the low dispersive lineshape pattern in Mar-Jun 2013 looks like a scaled down and stretched version of the chart from Nov 2013-present.

It looks like a lock in signal from a pump and probe spectroscopy experiment.

harish_ch · Post by **harish_ch** » 17 Mar 2014 16:08

Did Malaysian Airlines 370 disappear using SIA68 (another 777)?

http://keithledgerwood.tumblr.com/post/ ... sing-sia68