Eastern Europe/Ukraine

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 18 Mar 2014 21:22

It is pathetic how jokers like William Hague,spout forth about illegality,blah,blah,when they sponsored an illegal putsch in Kiev using neo-Nazis! What the West has completely misread is the simmering rage within Russia that cuts across all parts of the political spectrum,of the lack of respect for Russia after the Cold War.Here Putin has perfectly read the mood of Russians.Pushed back time and again by NATO expansion ,first in the Balkans,then former Warsaw Pact nations on Russia's borders,in a complete double-cross of solemn promises given to Russia when the CW was formally ended. Even Mikhail Gorbachev,a great Western hero ,always trotted out by the West to justify their policies against Russia,has come out in support for Putin's Crimean gambit.

This lack of "respect" for Russia,which Putin referred to in his speech,illustrates the arrogance of the Western powers especially the US,who mistakenly think like the Imperial English ,believed that "God is an Englishman". The Yanquis similarly believe that "Gid is an American",also WASP. Obama is an aberration,but shows that the American "God" is also magnanimous to sometimes allow a non-white to occupy the White House,say once in a couple of centuries (has anyone really understood the significance of the name and colour of the residence of the US pres.? It has been most deliberate.) !

Russia has carefully calculated the "cost" of whatever sanctions that the US/EU impose. He has hinted at the "boomerang" effect of sanctions.

News Flash.Russian troops have stormed the mil.b\ base in the Crimea held by Ukranian troops.One Ukranian soldier killed.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 18 Mar 2014 21:27

Putin says Russia to respond toughly to provocative statements

“Western politicians threaten us not only by sanctions, but also deterioration of domestic problems. I would like to know what they mean: actions of certain fifth column by different nationalistic traitors or hope to worsen socio-economic situation in Russia and provoke indignation of people this way? We take such statements as irresponsible and evidently aggressive and will respond properly to them,”

“Meanwhile, we will never seek confrontation with our partners in the East or in the West,” Putin noted. “On the contrary, we will do everything to build civilized good neighborly relations as this is usual in modern world,” he pledged.

“We will evidently face external counteraction,” Putin warned. However, Putin said with confidence, “We should decide ourselves whether we will protect consistently our national interests or will sacrifice them forever.”

http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/724196

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 18 Mar 2014 21:38

^^^^^He's not laughing?

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 18 Mar 2014 21:44

Putin condemns western hypocrisy as he confirms annexation of Crimea
Russian president makes speech laced with bluster and anger at west, saying Russia has been 'cheated again and again'
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/m ... annexation

Shaun Walker in Simferopol
theguardian.com, Tuesday 18 March 2014
Link to video: Vladimir Putin signs treaty for Russia to take Crimea from Ukraine

Vladimir Putin announced the annexation of Crimea on Tuesday in a searing speech to assembled political elites in Moscow shot through with angry rhetoric about western aggression and hypocrisy.

The Russian president summoned the federal assembly, which includes both houses of parliament and all key political leaders, for an extraordinary session in the Kremlin's St George Hall.

Putin delivered an hour-long speech laced with patriotic bluster and anger at the west, whose politicians he said "call something white today and black tomorrow".

He was frequently interrupted by applause and at the end of the speech signed documents together with the de facto leader of Crimea, Sergei Aksyonov – who came to power after seizing the local parliament at gunpoint last month – to absorb the territory into Russia.

Putin recognised Crimea as an independent state late on Monday evening, making it easier to incorporate into the Russian Federation than if it were still Ukrainian territory. Kiev has said it will never give up its claim to Crimea, but is unable to respond to Russia militarily due to the huge disparity in their respective martial forces.

Ukrainian politician Vitali Klitschko, who will stand in presidential elections in May, called on Tuesday for Ukraine to sever diplomatic ties with Russia.

Announcing the suspension of joint naval exercises with Russia and of export licences for military items to Moscow, the British foreign secretary, William Hague, said Putin had chosen the "route of isolation". The US vice-president, Joe Biden, said the world had rejected Russia's "flawed logic" and threatened further sanctions.

"In the hearts and minds of people, Crimea has always been and remains an inseparable part of Russia," said Putin, who added that ethnic Russians had found themselves isolated from the motherland when the Soviet Union collapsed, both in Crimea and elsewhere.

"Millions of Russians went to sleep in one country and woke up living abroad, as a national minority in former republics of the union. The Russian people became one of the biggest, if not the biggest, split-up nation in the world."

Putin aired a list of foreign policy grievances going back to 2000, saying "we were cheated again and again, with decisions being taken behind our back", and insisted that it was ludicrous to claim the precedent of Kosovo – which was recognised by the west as an independent country following its secession from Serbia – as unique.

"How would our colleagues claim its uniqueness? It turns out because during the Kosovo conflict there were many human casualties. What, is that supposed to be a valid legal argument?" he asked.

With the annexation of Crimea considered a fait accompli, Kiev and the west are now looking with anxiety to eastern Ukraine, where a number of protests by elements of the Russian-speaking population have ended in violence and led the Russian foreign ministry to speak about the possible necessity of "defending" Russian speakers there.

"Don't believe those who try to frighten you with Russia and who scream that other regions will follow after Crimea," said Putin on Tuesday, going some way to allaying those fears. "We do not want a partition of Ukraine. We do not need this."

However, he reiterated his belief that Moscow feels the Kiev government is illegitimate, and also referenced long-held Russian fears of encirclement by the west.

"I do not want to be welcomed in Sevastopol by Nato sailors," said Putin, speaking of the Crimean port where Russia's Black Sea fleet is based. The city has special status within Crimea, and officially, Russia will welcome two new nations into its fold: Crimea, and the city of Sevastopol.

In Crimea itself, thousands gathered in Sevastopol to watch Putin's speech on a big screen in the main square and broke into the Russian national anthem when it was over. In the Crimean capital, Simferopol, men on ladders removed the large gold Ukrainian-language lettering on the regional parliament.

It is expected that in the coming months Crimea will switch to the rouble and introduce Moscow time and the Russian visa system. Russia will begin ratification of the treaty to formalise Crimea's annexation within days.

The grab of Crimea went ahead despite the US and EU announcing sanctions against several top Russian officials on Monday. On Tuesday the foreign ministry responded angrily to the sanctions and said reciprocal measures would be introduced.

"Attempts to speak to Russia in the language of force and threaten Russian citizens with sanctions will lead nowhere," said the ministry's statement.

"The adoption of restrictive measures is not our choice; however, it is clear that the imposition of sanctions against us will not go without an adequate response from the Russian side."

Tragic,but on death a "war crime"? Then what about he millions killed by the US in its adventurist wars?
"Collateral damage" ?

'This is a war crime': Ukrainian soldier killed as Russian troops 'storm Crimea military base'
http://www.independent.co.uk/?CMP=ILC-refresh

member_22605 · Post by **member_22605** » 18 Mar 2014 21:58

TSJones wrote:^^^^^He's not laughing?

Oh yes he was, laughing at Obama's helplessness and stupidity

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 18 Mar 2014 22:34

Putins actions make the concept of nationhood very unstable. Sorry if I am one of the few not impressed by this bluster.
This has been the strategy of the Arabs to annex large swathes of Indian territory. Convert people, infiltrate, intimidate and the territory is yours.
It becomes crucial to have some agreed upon parameters of referendum globally so that this degree of instability is not established.
And isn't Putin facing the same in Chechnya. Karma is crazy and an old old nation like Russia needs to understand.

member_28502 · Post by **member_28502** » 18 Mar 2014 23:22

Putin is in preservation mode
West is in destruction mode
of
From India
Indonesia
Yugo
Venezuela
Cuba
Egypt
Syria
Iran
Iraq
of course Russia
the list is endless.

Just how was Czech and Slovakia became new two entities?

Amazing all this financed by natural resources of turd world , slave labor of PRC paid fro by Phony Funny money

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 18 Mar 2014 23:34

NATO has no business expanding right upto russian borders.

imagine if ukraine was allowed to join NATO, as per the efforts made by west.

according to NATO, invasion of one member country is to be treated as invasion into one's own country and responded to as such.

we will be in WW III now.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 18 Mar 2014 23:37

Perhaps people should think of immigrating to Crimea. Fabulous weather and stunningly beautiful place

Most of Crimea has a temperate continental climate, except for the south coast where it experiences a humid[citation needed] subtropical climate, due to warm influences from the Black Sea and the high ground of the Crimean Mountains, which has a humid continental climate. Summers can be hot (28 °C / 82.4 °F Jul average) and winters are cool (−0.3 °C / 31.5 °F Jan average) in the interior, on the south coast winters are milder (4 °C / 39.2 °F Jan average) and temperatures much below freezing are exceptional. On the high ground, freezing weather is common in winter. Precipitation throughout Crimea is low, averaging only 400 mm (15.7 in) a year. Because of its climate, the southern Crimean coast is a popular beach and sun resort for Ukrainian and Russian tourists.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 18 Mar 2014 23:39

[quote][/quote]Indian students in Ukraine medical schools

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1140305/j ... yiT1IW3uqI
ver 5,000 Indian medical students are enrolled at multiple Ukrainian universities in Kiev, Kharkiv, Odessa and Lugansk, apart from Simferopol – attracted by even lower fees than offered by Chinese medical schools.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 18 Mar 2014 23:54

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a9c8ecd4-ae74 ... z2wLGwRfAz
France offers to halt Russian ship sale if UK hits oligarchs

France says it could suspend its controversial deal to sell helicopter assault ships to Russia if more sanctions are adopted against Moscow over Ukraine – but only if Britain also takes action against Russian oligarchs in London.Laurent Fabius, foreign minister, said halting the €1.2bn contract to supply two Mistral-class helicopter carriers was envisaged as part of a potential “third level” of sanctions if Russia did not respond to sanctions imposed by the EU and the US on Monday on a number of leading Russian and Ukrainian individuals.But he stressed such a step would only be taken “in the framework of general sanctions imposed by all countries”. He singled out Britain, saying it must do “the equivalent with the assets of Russian oligarchs in London”.He said he had made this clear to William Hague, his British counterpart, at a meeting of EU foreign ministers on Monday.“What is envisaged is the suspension of these contracts,” Mr Fabius said in an interview on Europe 1 radio on Tuesday. “It’s very complicated. On the one hand one can’t envisage supplying [Russia] indefinitely considering its behaviour. On the other hand there is the reality of jobs and the economy.He added: “We are doing everything to ensure [the suspension] will not be necessary.”

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 19 Mar 2014 00:00

From an Indian National Interest perspective, Ukraine in turmoil is a net benefit for India due to that nation's supply of wares to our enemies, North and West.

Today's Putin speech tapped deep into Russian history asserting its roots as the vanguard state for the Orthodox civilization. Samuel Huntington is on the money again.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 19 Mar 2014 00:21

please post video or transcirpts of his speech (if you find one translated)..funny that you-tube will have all stupid speeches of Obama but not this one....good to hear someone speaking about western fkups which has become a norm these days.

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 19 Mar 2014 00:22

ShauryaT wrote:From an Indian National Interest perspective, Ukraine in turmoil is a net benefit for India due to that nation's supply of wares to our enemies, North and West.

Today's Putin speech tapped deep into Russian history asserting its roots as the vanguard state for the Orthodox civilization. Samuel Huntington is on the money again.

Don't forget the west side Baptists in the Ukraine! Trouble makers all. The worst kind.

Meanwhile, Putin is laughing. Video please!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 19 Mar 2014 00:32

ShauryaT wrote:From an Indian National Interest perspective, Ukraine in turmoil is a net benefit for India due to that nation's supply of wares to our enemies, North and West.

Today's Putin speech tapped deep into Russian history asserting its roots as the vanguard state for the Orthodox civilization. Samuel Huntington is on the money again.

The Russians call Moscovy, "Third Rome". Caroll Quigley, Georgetown uty.
S Balagangadara of Ghent writes of the long war between Rome and Constantinopole and the successor states.
The later 1700s saw the balance of power in Europe shift from Western Europe to three states: Prussia, Russia and Austria. These were main warring states in WWI.

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 19 Mar 2014 00:36

ramana wrote:
ShauryaT wrote:From an Indian National Interest perspective, Ukraine in turmoil is a net benefit for India due to that nation's supply of wares to our enemies, North and West.

Today's Putin speech tapped deep into Russian history asserting its roots as the vanguard state for the Orthodox civilization. Samuel Huntington is on the money again.

The Russians call Moscovy, "Third Rome". Caroll Quigley, Georgetown uty.
S Balagangadara of Ghent writes of the long war between Rome and Constantinopole and the successor states.
The later 1700s saw the balance of power in Europe shift from Western Europe to three states: Prussia, Russia and Austria. These were main warring states in WWI.

At one time, Kiev was the ancient capital of Russia.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 19 Mar 2014 00:49

Was not Kiev called Russ Kiev?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 19 Mar 2014 00:52

Yes. It was the capital till the Tatars harassed them too much. So they moved to Mocsovy.
Its all in this thread only.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 19 Mar 2014 00:59

I wish India has its version of Putin.

Kati · Post by **Kati** » 19 Mar 2014 01:07

^^^^
It's coming....
NaMo

Avarachan · Post by **Avarachan** » 19 Mar 2014 04:50

Here's the video of President Putin's speech: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDLwu4E35us

The official Russian site with the transcript is not working. That might be caused by a cyber-attack or simply too much traffic. Anyway, here's the site: http://eng.kremlin.ru/news/6889

Here's a wiki site with a partial transcript: https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Document:Pu ... March_2014

For a good overview of the situation, I would recommend this article. http://www.vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2 ... world.html

In my opinion, "Vineyard of the Saker" is the best source regarding the ongoing situation in the Ukraine/Crimea/Russia. http://www.vineyardsaker.blogspot.com

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 19 Mar 2014 06:49

Avarachan wrote:Here's the video of President Putin's speech: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDLwu4E35us

The official Russian site with the transcript is not working. That might be caused by a cyber-attack or simply too much traffic. Anyway, here's the site: http://eng.kremlin.ru/news/6889

Here's a wiki site with a partial transcript: https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Document:Pu ... March_2014

For a good overview of the situation, I would recommend this article. http://www.vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2 ... world.html

In my opinion, "Vineyard of the Saker" is the best source regarding the ongoing situation in the Ukraine/Crimea/Russia. http://www.vineyardsaker.blogspot.com

Link to this site was posted in one of the comments:

The Germans refuse to play Ball
Freeman on March 12, 2014 — 5 Comments

Transl. Michael Colhaze

The German newspaper Der Tagesspiegel (Daily Mirror) launched an online survey on March 6th, asking its readers in faulty German of how the West should react with regard to Russia’s incursions into Ukraine. What follows were the different answers from which the readers could choose.

Russia’s exclusion from the G8 summit should be considered
The conflict can be only solved diplomatically, and the G8 summit is important in this respect
Western censure is hypocritical, since Russia defends legitimate interests
If the escalation continues, a military intervention by NATO forces should not be excluded

By four o’clock in the afternoon, 9420 readers had answered the survey, and what they had to say filled the presstitutes from the Tagesspiegel with sheer horror. Because only a puny four percent, and we know who those are, favoured a military intervention by NATO forces. Whereas a staggering seventy eight percent believed that Western hacks like Kerry or Merkel were mere hypocrites and that Russia defended indeed legitimate interests.

So what happened? At four o’clock and five minutes, the survey was abruptly taken off the net and never seen again. Which clearly indicates that the propaganda lies of our hostile elite and their once invincible media outlets are losing ground. And which, as you will agree, is a ray of hope in the murky Western skies, particularly since the once so totally indoctrinated and docile Germans are seemingly waking up.

Freeman of All Noise and Smoke , posted Saturday, 8 March 2014

Link

This coup in Ukraine seems like just a redux of Crimean war in 1850s i.e. to stop the Russian expansion in eastern europe. And there is also a orthodox vs other x-ist denominations. The only difference seems to be that in 1850s, western oirope won the Crimean war. This time, they seem to have lost in their objective.

Going forward, I think there will be greater co-operation and coming together of Germany and Russia to counter Anglo-Saxon-Frank-Jewish-Saudi alliance. China may play both sides.

vina · Post by **vina** » 19 Mar 2014 07:03

From an Indian National Interest perspective, Ukraine in turmoil is a net benefit for India due to that nation's supply of wares to our enemies, North and West.

It is SIMPLY NOT. While I blame the west (Americans and EU) for this current situation and the Ukranian idiots for playing into their hands , the Russian action in Crimea and the general instability in Ukraine is simply NOT in India's interest.

The Indian national interest is as follows and is as per a piece in today's Al-Hundi ,a front page report (a small box) of Putin's call to Manmohan Singh seeking support. Evidently MMS stressed that India stands for territorial integrity and respect for sovereignty and urged all sides to go the diplomatic route. That is in fact more in tune with the "western" position.

But while that might be the case in "principle" , India has not joined the western nations in condemning Russia's actions in Crimea , nor has it responded to the Ukrainian ambassador's request to recognize the current govt in Kiev.

Yes, what happened in Ukraine where a multi lingual, multi religious state with a mixed population living largely in harmony, ripped apart by the "great power" idiots in the US /EU and Russia is sad. And if it escalates and it takes the global economy to Pakistan, it is in no one's interest, and if this leads to civil war in Ukraine and bloodshed, it makes it infinitely worse at both a human level (many families there are of mixed origin, the identities are fluid and multiple, it will be a massive tragedy) and a global political level and will quickly escalate into sort of like WWIII.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 19 Mar 2014 07:26

Western leaders have yet to realise that the people have been fooled many a time in allowing their leaders like Bush and B.Liar to rush to war on a pack of lies.But no longer.The truth of these insidious wars has outed. Even during the Iraq crisis,Britain saw a 1 million man march against the war.B.Liar has been well looked after with dozens of millions earned from his post-PM lecture circuit exertions,speaking his BS very aptly to sh*tpot manufacturers and their ilk! Few in Britain believe that the death of chem warfare expert Dr.Kelly was a suicide either.This is why the leaders of Euro-Peons reading the writing on the wall,retreating silently from their wars along with their Yanqui partner-in-crime,can only fulminate and shake their fists ,well-knowing that their hypocrisy has been laid bare over the last two decades.

The Crimea's history as part of Russia is too well-known to be repeated.There would have been no so-called "annexation" had Yanukovych's govt. not been overthrown by foul means.he was tricked into complacency by the Euro-Peons signing a deal with them only to be overthrown by their neo-Nazi goons immediately after.And what were the first pronouncements of the Kiev clique? Withdrawing the rights of the Russian speaking peoples of the Ukraine! If Putin had not supported the unilateral and almost unanimous uprising by the Crimean Russians,his days in office in Moscow would be numbered.The entire Russian people have as he rightly put it,had enough of the relentless NATO expansion breaking solemn promises given to Russia after the Cold War.Bush the Senior was an astute man with a true grasp of history.He did not humiliate Saddam after GW1,neither did he humiliate the Russians after the fall of the Berlin Wall. The humiliation of Germany at Versailles led to WW2,which saw their eventual destruction,why the German public are far more intelligent than their leaders!

As for India and Surrender Singh,when he speaks,which is very rare,he can only mouth "his master's voice",made in Washington.Fortunately,we are seeing the last of him and I will celebrate when he departs buried in the dustbin of history.I don't know why Putin spoke to him.It was highly magnanimous of him (after all he represents India).He should've spoken to his hopefully Indian counterpart-to-be,Mr,Modi.

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 19 Mar 2014 07:26

The official Indian response has been correct except for not responding to the Ukrainian ambassador's request to recognize the new govt in Kiev. We should make it crystal clear that we do not condone or recognize the extra-constitutional intimidation and overthrow of a democratically elected leader. To keep quiet about this sends a wishy washy message which, considering we are talking about MMS, is to be expected I suppose.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 19 Mar 2014 07:32

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/m ... tin-crimea
Red Square rally hails Vladimir Putin after Crimea accession
Russian president addresses large crowd of supporters and thanks Crimeans for their 'courage and perseverance'

It was hard to avoid Vladimir Putin at the rally in Red Square on Tuesday celebrating the joining of Crimea to Russia. As the president's defiant speech from earlier in the day was replayed on speakers, supporters waved giant white flags with Putin's face and the words "We're together!", and signs reading "Putin is right" and "We believe Putin".

Finally, the man himself appeared on a huge stage in front of the Kremlin. Speaking against a backdrop reading "Crimea is in my heart!" while officials from the Ukrainian breakaway region looked on, Putin was briefly interrupted by chants of "Putin!" and "Russia!" as he thanked Crimeans for their "courage and perseverance".

"Today is a very bright, happy holiday. After a long, difficult, exhausting voyage, Crimea and Sevastopol are returning to their native harbour, to their native shores, to their port of permanent registration – to Russia!" Putin began.

"Russia! Crimea! Putin!" chanted people with the red-and-yellow ribbons of St George, typically worn to commemorate military victories.

US and European leaders have decried the accession treaty Putin signed on Tuesday with Crimean politicians, but at home the move was met with an outpouring of patriotic fervour at rallies organised with the help of pro-Kremlin civic groups and political parties.

Police reports, which are often accused of exaggerating the size of pro-government rallies, said 120,000 people were assembled on Red Square. The state television channel Rossiya 24 reported that similar demonstrations took place in all of Russia's 81 regions.

Attendees in Red Square said they felt pride in their resurgent country and in Putin for his decisive actions on the world stage. Frequent references to the US and signs reading "Obama! Look after Alaska!" gave the gathering a cold war feel, and it was clear who was seen to be winning this time.

Irina Makarova, a gallery owner, said she had stood and clapped along with the politicians in the Kremlin when she watched Putin's address to the Federal Assembly earlier in the day at home.

"I am proud to be Russian and proud of Putin, proud that he didn't back down and kept Crimea," she said. "For a long time, we didn't know what kind of country we were living in and where it was going. Now a new confidence in our country has appeared."

Putin's power play in Ukraine has been enormously popular at home, with 79% of Russians in favour of Crimea joining Russia, according to a survey this month by the independent Levada Centre. Putin's approval rating has reached a three-year high of 71.6%, the state-run pollster VTsIOM reported last week.

Igor Sukhopyatkin, who was waving a Russian navy flag with his friend Vladimir Sukhrun as they waited for the rally to start, said Russia was now strong enough "to protect fellow Russian speakers".

"A kind of truth has prevailed," Sukhrun said. "Europe doesn't listen to us, the US doesn't listen to us, but there are fascists" running Ukraine, he added.

As they spoke, a drunken rallygoer stumbled up to the two men. "Have you spoken to anyone from Odessa? When will they rise up?" he asked, referring to the largely Russian-speaking port city in mainland Ukraine.

Mingling in the gilded halls of the Grand Kremlin Palace before and after Putin's address, politicians including the boxer-turned-parliamentarian Nikolai Valuev painted Crimea's accession as a sign of Russia's resurgence. "We're living in a great era," the former heavyweight champion said. "What's going on now is the appearance of a different world order."

Valuev said western sanctions "can't touch" those who "feel together with Russia," although he did note that his homes in Germany and Spain were up for sale.

Meanwhile, Dmitry Rogozin, the deputy prime minister in charge of the arms and space industries, who has laughed off the US sanctions levelled against him, announced that ministers would meet on Thursday to discuss how to help the unrecognised republic of Transnistria deal with an "economic blockade" that he said had been started recently by its neighbours Moldova and Ukraine.

Mutual troop buildups along the Ukrainian-Russian border in recent days have raised fears that Russia will seek to replicate the Crimea scenario in Ukraine's largely Russian-speaking eastern provinces, especially after several prominent politicians voiced support for similar referendums there.

The MP Leonid Slutsky, a target of US and EU sanctions, said Russia was not preparing to deploy troops in eastern Ukraine. "But if, God forbid, the situation gets to bloodshed like in Kiev, since our fellow countrymen are there, we will be obligated to react," he said.

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 19 Mar 2014 07:53

vina wrote: The Indian national interest is as follows and is as per a piece in today's Al-Hundi ,a front page report (a small box) of Putin's call to Manmohan Singh seeking support. Evidently MMS stressed that India stands for territorial integrity and respect for sovereignty and urged all sides to go the diplomatic route. That is in fact more in tune with the "western" position.

Yes, I read that MEA statement at another site, and could not help but notice that the words were verbatim out of Ombaba's statement - made me puke! Anyways, he is on his way out, so no point in me venting now on MMS views of our national interest!
I am sorry Vina but I will have to differ from our esteemed PM's positions.

But while that might be the case in "principle" , India has not joined the western nations in condemning Russia's actions in Crimea , nor has it responded to the Ukrainian ambassador's request to recognize the current govt in Kiev.

So, what is new? Na ghar ka, na ghat ka - result is NAM or the Napoonsak Alliance. As opposed to us, Putin actually thanked China in his speech for understanding the historical aspect of the matter.

If after saying that sovereignty should be respected and so should national interests of nations, it would have been a more balanced statement. The truth of the matter is when Russia was weak, the west pushed as much as they could and now the spring is ready to recoil. Putin said it right. Lastly, it is loss of control that leads to civil war, which is what the state of affairs were/are in Ukraine. Russian intervention establishes control and hence prevents the likelihood of such an occurrence. It is the absence of strong control that has put Ukraine in crisis after crisis. Although even stability can come at a cost.

The risks of Russian intervention is an expansion of nationalism and further encroachments across more adjoining states with Russian speaking populations. What type of counter reaction this entails in the west and how it serves Indian interests is a matter of debate.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 19 Mar 2014 07:56

Victor wrote:The official Indian response has been correct except for not responding to the Ukrainian ambassador's request to recognize the new govt in Kiev. We should make it crystal clear that we do not condone or recognize the extra-constitutional intimidation and overthrow of a democratically elected leader. To keep quiet about this sends a wishy washy message which, considering we are talking about MMS, is to be expected I suppose.

It is high time to call the bluff of color revolutions. There was a government and constitution to have elections and government. What's the urgency to overthrow a government by clubbing folks to maidans and squares? India should condemn these things in its national interest.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 19 Mar 2014 08:01

^^ I saw the speech he thanked both China and India

http://www.thehindu.com/news/internatio ... 800989.ece

“We are grateful to all those who understood our actions in Crimea,” Mr. Putin said. “We are grateful to the people of China, whose leadership sees the situation in Crimea in all its historical and political integrity. We highly appreciate India’s restraint and objectivity.”

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 19 Mar 2014 08:05

Muppalla wrote:It is high time to call the bluff of color revolutions. There was a government and constitution to have elections and government. What's the urgency to overthrow a government by clubbing folks to maidans and squares? India should condemn these things in its national interest.

Exactly whats the hurry when they even agreed to the deal.

The guy was any way on the way out and it was a waiting game for Maidan and West , The election was scheduled for November and they would have won it any ways and got an legally elected government in power and signed the EU AA.

The West simply rushed in looking at how weak Yanokovich was and supported the Coup by Maidan followed by quick recognition.

Perhaps the West was worried that Maidan fever wont last till Nov election ?

vic · Post by **vic** » 19 Mar 2014 08:35

west wanted their guys in and not a free and fair elections.

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 19 Mar 2014 08:35

Austin wrote:We highly appreciate India’s restraint and objectivity.”[/b]

I am not sure of this translation, although even India was mentioned. What I heard is "appreciate India's understanding"

An official translation is here, but not complete

http://eng.kremlin.ru/news/6889

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 19 Mar 2014 08:38

ShauryaT wrote:
Austin wrote:We highly appreciate India’s restraint and objectivity.”[/b]
I am not sure of this translation, although even India was mentioned. What I heard is "appreciate India's understanding"

An official translation is here, but not complete

http://eng.kremlin.ru/news/6889

I saw Putins address to Parliament , and it was being translated in English as he spoke and indeed he said what was quoted.

The NSA made a statement to take Russian interest in Ukraine into consideration the MEA later water downed it and made it equal equal.

In any case there must be some tacit understanding between India and Russia on this ....beyond NSA and MEA statement just to avoid Western eyeball.

The official Kremlin website generally for long speech after partial translation has that "to be continued" which generally does not happen

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 19 Mar 2014 08:46

Western sanctions against Russia to be targeted at industrial overhaul plans — Rogozin

We should proceed from the most unfavorable scenario existing today,” he said. “Yesterday’s wave of sanctions was just like a joke, a litmus test as it were, while the real sanctions won’t be declared openly but will have a latent nature,” he said.

Rogozin believes sanctions will be spearheaded at Russia’s plans for furnishing the industries with novel technologies, effectuating the state armaments program and the current state defense contracts.

“We’re holding almost daily conferences with our industrialists in various aspects of our operations, as we realize only too well the step we made today in terms of reunification of the country will be met with much animosity by our foes,” Rogozin said.

He added that Western opponents always use the norms of international law in the way they find to be lucrative for themselves.

“They always put on the clothing of international law and use it in a most gainful manner,” Rogozin said. “When they needed to tear Kosovo away from Serbia, they did it, making allusions to the very same international law, but as much the same situation is taking shape across Ukraine, it happens to run counter their understanding and interpretation of international law.”

“That’s why we are to expect dirty tricks of all sorts from them,” Rogozin said.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 19 Mar 2014 08:47

Argentina and Serbia supported the referendum on Crimea ..... I think they have their own pain point in Falkland Island and Kosovo

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 19 Mar 2014 09:00

raghuk wrote:
TSJones wrote:^^^^^He's not laughing?
Oh yes he was, laughing at Obama's helplessness and stupidity

And I thank Obama for his contribution towards the decline of Anglo American white power (the greatest menace world has ever seen)

And PUTIN rocks. History will remember him as the person who took the initiative against the evil Anglo American terrorist empire.

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 19 Mar 2014 09:15

Austin wrote:Western sanctions against Russia to be targeted at industrial overhaul plans — Rogozin
We should proceed from the most unfavorable scenario existing today,” he said. “Yesterday’s wave of sanctions was just like a joke, a litmus test as it were, while the real sanctions won’t be declared openly but will have a latent nature,” he said.

Rogozin believes sanctions will be spearheaded at Russia’s plans for furnishing the industries with novel technologies, effectuating the state armaments program and the current state defense contracts.

“We’re holding almost daily conferences with our industrialists in various aspects of our operations, as we realize only too well the step we made today in terms of reunification of the country will be met with much animosity by our foes,” Rogozin said.

He added that Western opponents always use the norms of international law in the way they find to be lucrative for themselves.

“They always put on the clothing of international law and use it in a most gainful manner,” Rogozin said. “When they needed to tear Kosovo away from Serbia, they did it, making allusions to the very same international law, but as much the same situation is taking shape across Ukraine, it happens to run counter their understanding and interpretation of international law.”

“That’s why we are to expect dirty tricks of all sorts from them,” Rogozin said.

Dirty trick number 1.

What's that over there?

Answer: I dunno, what?

Reply: Ha! made you look!

We got a lot more of those. Better be careful.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 19 Mar 2014 09:42

Putin spoke with PM yesterday

Telephone conversation with Prime Minister of India Manmohan Singh

March 18, 2014, 19:50

Vladimir Putin had a telephone conversation with Prime Minister of India Manmohan Singh.

Vladimir Putin told Manmohan Singh about the development of the crisis in Ukraine and the implementation of an informed choice by the multiethnic population of Crimea, which was made during the March 16 referendum.

A significant part of the discussion addressed issues of trade and economic cooperation and ties in other areas. Mr Singh expressed interest in promoting multidimensional cooperation, not just on a bilateral basis, but in multilateral formats as well, including through the Customs Union and the Common Economic Space.

The leaders of Russia and India expressed a firm determination to strengthen relations as a strategic, privileged partnership.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 19 Mar 2014 09:46

Check out US Exon Mobil and Rosneft Energy Relationship

Why ExxonMobil's Partnerships With Russia's Rosneft Challenge the Narrative of U.S. Exports As Energy Weapon

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 19 Mar 2014 10:04

A Distorted Lens Justifying An Illegitimate Ukrainian Government

Why does Western media ignore critical information about the snipers that killed Euromaidan protesters in Ukraine?

Why does Western media ignore critical information about the snipers that killed Euromaidan protesters in Ukraine?

Support it or oppose it, a coup d’état took place in Kiev after an EU-brokered agreement was signed by the Ukrainian government and the mainstream opposition on Feb. 21. The agreement called for power sharing between both sides through the formation of a national unity government and for an end to the opposition-led street protests in Kiev. President Viktor Yanukovych ordered the Ukrainian police and security forces to withdraw from their positions, and even earlier, he had made multiple concessions to the opposition leadership.

Instead of keeping its end of the bargain, the Ukrainian mainstream opposition executed a coup through the use of violence by organized ultra-nationalist gangs, which some analysts have compared to stay-behinds or secretive militias that were created by NATO during the Cold War.

These armed ultra-nationalist groups took over administrative bodies in Ukraine and fought until they managed to oust the Ukrainian government and opened the path for opposition leaders to take power on Feb. 25. The Ukrainian mainstream opposition used the EU-brokered agreement, which the Brussels-based European Commission deliberately refused to enforce, as a means of justifying the formation of a coup-imposed government.

In the absence of almost half the Ukrainian Verkhovna Rada, or Ukrainian Parliament, the opposition parties began to arbitrarily pass unconstitutional laws. They also unconstitutionally selected Oleksandr/Aleksandr Valentynovych Turchynov as the acting president of Ukraine before President Viktor Yanukovych was even impeached. Intimidation and violence were additionally used to secure the cooperation of any disagreeing parliamentarians or state officials in Kiev.

Saying that the ultra-nationalists and fascists are marginal elements, the mainstream media networks in North America and the European Union have simply dismissed the armed ultra-nationalist groups involved in the coup that are presently integrated into the putsch regime running Kiev.

The militant ultra-nationalists, however, are very influential and amassing power under the illegal premiership of Arseniy Yatsenyuk. Yatsenyuk, himself, is from Yulia Tymoshenko’s notoriously corrupt All-Ukrainian Union Fatherland Party (Batkivshchyna) and essentially a U.S. and EU appointee. There is even a pre-coup leaked telephone interception, likely either recorded by the intelligence services of Russia or Ukraine, in which U.S. Assistant Secretary of State Victory Nuland says that Yatsenyuk will be appointed as the prime minister of the Ukrainian government that the U.S. is putting together.

Act two of the Orange Revolution

It is unlikely that Yatsenyuk and the loosely-knit alliance of the governing parties that ran Ukraine under the Yushchenko-Tymoshenko governments, foreign-based Ukrainians, and the forces behind the Orange Revolution that form the Orangist camp which he belongs to could have gotten back into power in Ukraine without pressure, the use of force and foreign backing. Yatsenyuk was even threatened and booed by the Ukrainians gathered at Independence Square when it was announced that he would be appointed as the prime minister of the post-coup government. A vast segment of the protesters made it clear that Tymoshenko, Yatsenyuk’s party leader, was no alternative to the ousted President Viktor Yanukovych in their eyes, either, when it was announced that she wanted to run for prime minister.

The Orangists do not have the support of a majority of the population, nor did they form the parliamentary majority in the Verkhovna Rada. Their Orangist president, Viktor Yushchenko, only got 5 percent of the vote in January 2010, in a show of no-confidence, whereas Viktor Yanukovych won the first and second rounds of the presidential elections in 2010. According to Victoria Nuland, the U.S. has also poured $5 billion into “democracy promotion” inside Ukraine. This is U.S. State Department doublespeak for politicized funding that Washington has sent to Ukraine to organize the Orange Revolution and its Euromaidan sequel or what can frankly be described as regime change.

The anti-government protests were fueled by Ukraine’s economic decline and the growing resentment of the population against the corruption of the entire Ukrainian political establishment. The irony is that the economic problems in Ukraine are the handiwork of the economic policies and neoliberal restructuring programs of the same Orangists that are now in power in Kiev again.

The supposedly liberal Orangists are sowing the seeds of chaos and social anomie in Ukrainian society. The Orangists have worked to politically galvanize Ukrainians on the basis of sectarian lines and cleavages to divide the population by using a nationalist and anti-Russian discourse.

To rule Ukraine once more, the Orangists and their foreign backers have used and manipulated the ultra-nationalist elements of the population — some of which are openly anti-European Union — as their foot soldiers in an application of force against their democratically-elected opponents.

Despite their views, the ultra-nationalists are actually more honest than the Orangist liberal figures like Arseniy Yatsenyuk. Unlike the misleading and utterly corrupt Orangist leaders, the ultra-nationalists do not hide their agendas and platforms.

The invisible Ukrainian ultra-nationalists

While the mainstream media in North America and the EU look the other way about the ultra-nationalists in the coup government in Kiev, the facts speak for themselves. Both the EU and the U.S. governments have rubbed their elbows with the ultra-nationalists. Oleh Tyahnybok, the leader of Svoboda (formerly the Social Nationalist Party of Ukraine), was even part of the opposition triumvirate that all the U.S. and EU officials visiting Kiev met with while performing their political pilgrimages to Ukraine to encourage the protesters to continue with their demonstrations and riots demanding Euro-Atlantic integration.

Svoboda has popularly been described as a neo-Nazi grouping. The World Jewish Congress has demanded that Svoboda be banned. The ultra-nationalist party was even condemned by the EU’s own European Parliament, which passed a motion on Dec. 13, 2012 categorically condemning Svoboda.

The text adopted by the European Parliament states: “Parliament goes on to express concern about the rising nationalistic sentiment in Ukraine, expressed in support for the Svoboda Party, which, as a result, is one of the two new parties to enter the Verkhovna Rada. It recalls that racist, anti-Semitic and xenophobic views go against the EU’s fundamental values and principles and therefore appeals to pro-democratic parties in the Verkhovna Rada not to associate with, endorse or form coalitions with this party.”

Several members of Svoboda have been given key cabinet and government posts. One of the two junior deputy prime ministers, or assistant deputy prime ministers, is Oleksandr Sych. The ministry of agriculture and food has been given for management to Ihor Shvaika. The environment and natural resources ministry has been assigned to Andry/Andriy Mokhnyk. The defense minister is Ihor Tenyukh, a former admiral in the Ukrainian Navy who obstructed Russian naval movements in Sevastopol during the Russo-Georgian War over South Ossetia and who was later dismissed by the Ukrainian government for insubordination. Oleh Makhnitsky, another member of Svoboda, has been assigned as the new prosecutor-general of Ukraine by the coup government.

Andry Parubiy, one of the founders of Svoboda, is now the post-coup secretary of the National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine (RNBO). He was the man controlling the so-called “Euromaidan security forces” that fought government forces in Kiev. His job as secretary is to represent the president and act on his behalf in coordinating and implementing the RNBO’s decisions.

As a figure, Parubiy clearly illustrates how the mainstream opposition in Ukraine is integrated with the ultra-nationalists. Parubiy is an Orangist and was a leader in the Orange Revolution. He has changed parties several times. After founding Svoboda, he joined Viktor Yushchenko’s Our Ukraine before joining Yulia Tymoshenko’s Fatherland Party and being elected as one of the Fatherland Party’s deputies, or members of parliament.

The ultra-nationalists are such an integral part of the mainstream opposition that the U.S.-supported Orangist president of Ukraine, Viktor Yushchenko, posthumously awarded the infamous Nazi collaborator Stepan Bandera the title and decoration of the “Hero of Ukraine” in 2010. Foreign audiences, however, would not know that if they relied on reportage from the likes of the U.S. state-run Radio Free Europe, which tried to protect Yushchenko because he wanted to reorient Ukraine toward the U.S. and EU. Parubiy also lobbied the European Parliament not to oppose Yushchenko’s decision.

Other smaller ultra-nationalists parties were also given government posts, and several of the independent cabinet members are also aligned to these parties. Dmytro Yarosh from Right Sector (Pravyi Sektor) is the deputy secretary of the RNBO, and the Trizub Party was given the education ministry. Trizub had Sergey Kvit appointed to the post of education minister.

The ultra-nationalists have inconsolably anti-Russian attitudes. Many of them also dislike a vast spectrum of other groups, including Jews, Armenians, Roma, Poles, Tatars, supporters of the Party of Regions and communists. In this context, it should come as no surprise that one of the first decisions that the post-coup regime in Kiev made was to remove the legal status of the Russian language as the regional language of half of Ukraine.

Right Sector is, itself, a coalition of militant ultra-nationalists. These militants were instrumental in fighting government forces and taking over both government buildings in Kiev and regional governments in the western portion of Ukraine. Despite the protests of First Deputy Defense Minister Oleynik, Deputy Defense Minister Mozharovskiy and Deputy Defense Minister Babenk, Arseniy Yatsenyuk’s post-coup government has even given the ultra-nationalist opposition militias official status within the Ukrainian military and security forces. Yatsenyuk and the Orangists also dismissed all the officials that protested that the move would fracture the country and make the political divide in Ukraine irreversible.

Western media silence about the snipers in Ukraine

The role of the ultra-nationalists in executing the coup has been essentially ignored by the mainstream media in North America and the EU. The roots of the bloodshed in Kiev have been ignored, too. The shootings of protesters by snipers have simply been presented as the vile actions of the Ukrainian government, never taking into consideration the agitation of the armed ultra-nationalist gangs and the mainstream opposition leaders for a conflict.

According to a leaked telephone conversation on Feb. 26 between Estonian Foreign Minister Urmas Paet and European Union Commissioner Catherine Ashton, which was leaked by the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU/SSU) , the snipers who shot at protesters and police in Kiev were allegedly hired by Ukrainian opposition leaders. Estonian Foreign Minister Paet made the statements on the basis of details he was given by one of the head doctors of the medical team of the anti-government protests, Olga Bogomolets, an opponent of Viktor Yanukovych’s government who wanted it removed from power.

Paet tells Ashton the following first: “There is now stronger and stronger understanding that behind the snipers, it was not Yanukovych, but it was somebody from the new coalition.”

This is also corroborated by the fact that Yanukovych actually had ordered the Ukrainian riot police and security forces not to use lethal force.

The Estonian official then mentions that it was verified to him that the same snipers were killing people on both sides. He tells Ashton the following:

“And second, what was quite disturbing, this same Olga [Bogomolets] told as well that all the evidence shows that the people who were killed by snipers from both sides, among policemen and then people from the streets, that they were the same snipers killing people from both sides.”

Another important point that Paet makes to Ashton is the following: “[Dr. Olga Bogomolets] then also showed me some photos she said that as a medical doctor she can say that it is the same handwriting, the same type of bullets, and it’s really disturbing that now the new coalition, that they don’t want to investigate what exactly happened.”

Past reports from the mainstream media that is hostile to the ousted Ukrainian government also raise serious questions that corroborate what has been said about the snipers intentionally killing protesters to instigate regime change.

The Telegraph reported on Feb. 20 that “[a]t least three of the bodies displayed single bullet wounds to the heads,” and “were shot in the head, the neck or the heart. None were shot anywhere else like in the legs.” This means that the snipers were making kill shots by design, which seems like the last thing that the Ukrainian government would want to do when it was trying to appease the protesters and bring calm to Kiev.

The Ukrainian journalist Alexey Yaroshevsky’s account of the sniper shootings is also worth noting, and it is backed up by footage taken by his Russian crew in Kiev. Their footage shows armed opposition members running away from the scene of the shooting of anti-government protesters. What comes across as unusual is that the armed members of the opposition were constantly agitating to start firefights at every opportunity that they could get.

The commandant of the SSU, Major-General Oleksandr Yakimenko, has testified that his counter-intelligence forces were monitoring the CIA in Ukraine during the protests. According to the SSU, the CIA was active on the ground in Kiev and collaborating with a small circle of opposition figures. Yakimenko has also said that it was not the police or government forces that fired on the protesters, but snipers from the Philharmonic Building that was controlled by the opposition leader Andriy Parubiy, which he asserts was interacting with the CIA. Speaking to the Russian media, Yakimenko said that 20 men wearing “special combat clothes” and carrying “sniper rifle cases, as well as AKMs with scopes” ran out of the opposition-controlled Philharmonic Building and split into two groups of 10 people, with one taking position at the Ukraine Hotel. The anti-government protesters even saw this and asked Ukrainian police to pursue them, and even figures from Right Sector and Svoboda asked Yakimenko’s SSU to investigate and apprehend them, but Parubiy prevented it. Major-General Yakimenko has categorically stated that opposition leaders were behind the shootings.

Following the release of the conversation between Paet and Ashton, the Estonian Foreign Ministry confirmed that the leak was authentic, whereas the European Commission kept silent. The mainstream media in North America and the EU either ignored it or said very little. The Telegraph even claimed that Dr. Bogomolets told it that she had not treated any government forces even though she contradicts this directly in an interview with CNN where she says she treated military personnel.

CNN, on the other hand, quickly glossed over the story, giving it only enough attention to create the impression that the network is fairly covering the news. Opting not to give the story the airtime that it deserved, CNN instead posted it on its webpage. The conversation is immediately discredited, undermined and dismissed in the first sentence of the article, which is attributed to Foreign Minister Paet: “Don’t read too much into the conversation.”

The article was deliberately structured by CNN to undermine the important information that would challenge the narrative that the U.S. mainstream media have been painting. The title, sub-titles and opening sentences of most texts act as microcosms or summaries of the articles, and in many cases, readers evaluate or decide to read the articles on the basis of what these texts communicate. Moreover, the first sentence of the article sets the tempo for readers and influences their opinion, too. Although anyone who listens to the conversation between Paet and Ashton and considers the evidence that is being discussed would realize just how important the news was, the message being set forth by CNN was a dismissive one.

The distorted lens justifies supporting an illegitimate government

The mainstream media genuinely selects which narratives prevail by deciding what voices to represent and the quantity and quality of coverage these voices get. Audiences should ask themselves some important questions about this. Whose voices are they hearing, and why? Why are certain voices excluded or deliberately ignored and other voices and points of view not excluded from the conversation? Why are some views credible and others discredited?

Evaluation is needed. The voices and accounts that challenge the narratives that are being promoted as reality to the public are ignored or undermined so that they do not defy the message or vision that the mainstream media is framing for audiences. Circumstances are deliberately left out of the narratives being reported or transmitted in many cases because of the justifications they can provide and the perceptions they can create.

A clear flow of information without any filters from Ukraine would cripple the public support that the governments of the U.S., Canada, Britain, France, Germany and Poland are providing to the coup leaders in Ukraine, which are themselves pawns of the U.S. and its allies. This is why audiences in North America and the EU are being presented a distorted picture by the mainstream media and the reason that there is an intense campaign to discredit the Russian media. Instead, the facts involving the murder of protesters by snipers in Ukraine and the coup have been trivialized, ignored or discredited by the mainstream media in North America and the EU.

Written for Mint Press by Mahdi Darius Nazemroaya

About the author:
An award-winning author and geopolitical analyst, Mahdi Darius Nazemroaya is the author of The Globalization of NATO (Clarity Press) and a forthcoming book The War on Libya and the Re-Colonization of Africa. He has also contributed to several other books ranging from cultural critique to international relations. He is a Sociologist and Research Associate at the Centre for Research on Globalization (CRG), a contributor at the Strategic Culture Foundation (SCF), Moscow, and a member of the Scientific Committee of Geopolitica, Italy.