Cope India 2005 - Kalaikunda AFS - Part I

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 16 Nov 2005 22:18

Saary that I pointed that out..

Anyways good side of this all if awacs has part failure.. it needs to go to base for ovrehaul. This is for you jingos who love to wail about how saudi awacs will be flying topcover to phaakee ph-solaahs.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 16 Nov 2005 22:54

I wonder would it be too difficult to make a portable RF signal capture device that any jaazoos can take close to training facilities to capture signatures. I agree the main lobes will not be sent to ground, but there will be enough sidelobe signals to capture on an omni antenna IMO.

So, what is the big deal in keeping the MKIs under wraps?

George J · Post by **George J** » 16 Nov 2005 23:02

Dileep wrote:..........So, what is the big deal in keeping the MKIs under wraps?

This is WHY the Bay Area jingos (part of the elite McJingo group) need to spend more time on BR core issues than just hot air topics.

Its basically the N011M, its supposed to be a kombanana radar. Given its putative superlative capeabilities you dont want folks to be running SIGINT on this baby to make it wholly or partially futile. After all the USAF didnt bring its bestest airborne radar either, sure they bought the AWACS...but its not in the same league.

Vivek_A · Post by **Vivek_A** » 16 Nov 2005 23:12

Cope India ’06: Fast-paced and full of firsts
Air Force pilots roar through combat exercise with Indian counterparts

By Jennifer H. Svan, Stars and Stripes
Pacific edition, Thursday, November 17, 2005

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 16 Nov 2005 23:19

“We try to replicate how these aircraft perform in the air, and I think we’re good at doing that in our Air Force, but what we can’t replicate is what’s going on in their minds,” he said. “They’ve challenged our traditional way of thinking on how an adversary, from whichever country, would fight.”

quote from the above link... clearly proves, the yankess are getting to know deeper IAF strategies.

the above link also mentions that USAF men got trained in MKI. what does this mean? they actually flew the a/c?

Babui · Post by **Babui** » 16 Nov 2005 23:44

That quote is as good an admission that the F-16 jocks got their clocks cleaned

You don't change your 'tried and true' and "traditional" method of tactics unless their is a paradigm shift (read IAF pasting the USAF)

daulat · Post by **daulat** » 16 Nov 2005 23:51

Babui wrote:That quote is as good an admission that the F-16 jocks got their clocks cleaned You don't change your 'tried and true' and "traditional" method of tactics unless their is a paradigm shift (read IAF pasting the USAF)

i would say partially true - "we are happy with the performance of the indian aircraft and our aircraft" sounds a bit like, we got them a few times they got us a few times and we didn't get as surprised by the results as last time

i expect that most f-16 jocks are getting a shock from WVR with the MKI, i also expect that the USAF, especially with AWACS has been doing pretty well at BVR

but then mission success is keeping the air cover busy long enough to let the strikers through

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 17 Nov 2005 00:05

This is WHY the Bay Area jingos (part of the elite McJingo group) need to spend more time on BR core issues than just hot air topics.

Achayoo. I guess I wasn't clear. What I meant is that prolly Unkil already had had jazoos placed all around the regular training facilities, not the cope facilities to grab sigint, during our regular training missions from long time ago. If that is the case, what are they going to learn now?

The beautiful female russian agent said to James Bond "I got the schematics 3 years ago".

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 17 Nov 2005 00:13

Kartik,

Offtopic but in case you need reference pics for the older sea blue-white scheme for SHARs there are pics of my model in the www.aircraftresourcecenter.com gallery section.

I never liked the low vis overall gray scheme...sooo boring!

Kartik wrote:
again, a little off topic, reading ur articles on IN's SHARs got me so excited that I went and bought this Fujimi 1/72 SHAR. and those pics you took, with the new look low viz gray SHARs are of invaluable help in getting a very good close look at them beauties..

George J · Post by **George J** » 17 Nov 2005 00:25

Dileep wrote:Achayoo. I guess I wasn't clear. What I meant is that prolly Unkil already had had jazoos placed all around the regular training facilities............The beautiful female russian agent said to James Bond "I got the schematics 3 years ago".

For every Victor Belenko there is a Klaus Fuchs. They dont need to come to India to do that...one green card or perhaps a snickers bar would be enough for them to gain access to NIIP. But its all purely hypothetical, and given that we have permanent interests and no permanent friends and that we need to trust by verify (or be cautious). Its stupid of us to think that they know everything when they could know NOTHING (and stuff like the fall of the soviet union, 9/11 and EyeRacki WMD or even POK-II come to mind)

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 17 Nov 2005 00:33

GJ, I totally agree. I was just pointing out the other side.

Anyways, we would take solace in Ved's confirmation. Anything we shown them would be part of a QPQ IMO. You show your b**bs, and I show mine routine.

Manu V · Post by **Manu V** » 17 Nov 2005 05:26

It once again shows, poor negotiating on IAF's part...
As part of any training exercise, certain hard-ware has
be prerequisite, else plan B should have been exercised.

Or maybe this is the plan B?

Manu_V

Indrajit · Post by **Indrajit** » 17 Nov 2005 09:20

KALAIKUNDA AIR STATION, India (AFPN) -- Capt. Kevin Jones gives a cockpit tour to Indian Air Force airmen during Cope India 2006. Currently, the U.S aircraft have flown 113 sorties with the Indian air force. Captain Jones is an F-16 Fighting Falcon pilot from the 13th Fighter Squadron, Misawa Air Base, Japan. (U.S. Air Force photo by Tech Sgt. Martin Jackson)

http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/ ... 0S-009.jpg

KALAIKUNDA AIR STATION, India (AFPN) -- Capt. Kevin Jones gives a cockpit tour to Indian Air Force airmen during Cope India 2006. Currently, the U.S aircraft have flown 113 sorties with the Indian air force. Captain Jones is an F-16 Fighting Falcon pilot from the 13th Fighter Squadron, Misawa Air Base, Japan. (U.S. Air Force photo by Tech Sgt. Martin Jackson)

http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/ ... 0S-010.jpg

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 17 Nov 2005 11:27

since Cope04 had no awacs, amriki GCI controllers must have been let into the dungeon then also.

Indrajit · Post by **Indrajit** » 17 Nov 2005 13:29

KALAIKUNDA AIR STATION, India (AFPN) -- Staff Sgt. Trey Norris monitors the fueling of an F-16 Fighting Falcon during Cope India 2006. During the exercise, Sergeant Norris has worked closely with the Indian Oil Company to completing 146 aircraft refuels -- nearly 235,000 gallons of fuel. Sergeant Norris is a fuels distribution supervisor from the 374th Logistics Readiness Squadron at Yokota Air Base, Japan. (U.S. Air Force photo by Tech. Sgt. Martin Jackson)
http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/ ... 0S-003.jpg

KALAIKUNDA AIR STATION, India (AFPN) -- Staff Sgt. Trey Norris reels in a fueling hose after the refueling an F-16 Fighting Falcon during Cope India 2006. During the exercise, Sergeant Norris has worked closely with the Indian Oil Company to completing 146 aircraft refuels -- nearly 235,000 gallons of fuel. Sergeant Norris is a fuels distribution supervisor from the 374th Logistics Readiness Squadron at Yokota Air Base, Japan. (U.S. Air Force photo by Tech. Sgt. Martin Jackson)
http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/ ... 0S-002.jpg

JaiS · Post by **JaiS** » 17 Nov 2005 15:12

No effect of Left's agitation on Indo-US exercise: Air Chief

New Delhi, Nov 15 The Indian Air Force today said the Left-sponsored agitaion against the ongoing Indo-US air exercise had no effect on the proceedings.

''There was no disruption to the exercise... In fact, the agitators had informed us that they would hold protests but at a distance from the airbase. They had even taken permission from the administration,'' IAF chief Air Chief Marshal S P Tyagi told UNI on the sidelines of a function here.

Stressing that in a democratic country everyone had a right to protest, he said the Americans were also unfazed by the agitation.

''They were not upset at all, and did, in fact, compliment us on our democratic traditions. They are also used to protestors, right outside their foreign bases as well as in the US itself,'' the IAF chief said.

''We hold an exercise at the place most suitable for it there are no other considerations,'' he said.

Joint military exercises strengthening ties: US diplomat

Kolkata: The India-US joint military exercises are strengthening bilateral ties and would help take on the scourge of terrorism more effectively, a senior US diplomat said here.

"It is through joint training that our two militaries will enhance their capacity to confront the scourge of terrorism," said Blake at the reception held to toast the ongoing 12-day India-US air exercises - Cope India 05 - at the Kalaikunda airbase in West Bengal, which began Nov 7.

"These 10 days, our two forces have trained side by side on the ground and in the air. USAF (United States Air Force) F-16 have flown with IAF (Indian Air Force) Mirage 2000, MIG-21, SU-30 and Jaguar aircraft offering a tremendous training opportunity to both sides and enhancing the bonds between us," Blake said.

Blake hoped that the defence framework signed by Indian Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee and US Secretary of Defence Donald Rumsfeld in June will promote the defence relations of the two countries for the next decade.

"Through this framework we will improve cooperation between our armed forces, enlarge defence trade, co-produce military hardware and increase technology transfer," he said.

daulat · Post by **daulat** » 17 Nov 2005 15:50

most of the Japan based units are very used to demos. currently there is a big hoo haa going on about Okinawa and dugong habitats being disrupted by US bases

all in a days work in a democracy

Babui · Post by **Babui** » 17 Nov 2005 19:38

Where the hell is the IAF's 'Media Relations Group' !!! All the pics and stories are from Unkil. How the hell is the IAF going to attract top talent if it doesn't publicize its exercises ?! Just because the last COPE got too much publicity - this time the IAF went to the other extreme. This is so damn frustrating. What about our own media journalists - they should be banging on the gate to be let in. Hello! Calling Vishnu Som and others........koth iaye gale - hariay gacho naki ?

Manne · Post by **Manne** » 17 Nov 2005 19:44

A few more pics can be seen on getty - search news for "cope" in last 7 days.

Babui · Post by **Babui** » 17 Nov 2005 20:06

Thanks Manne. The Getty images mention that media representatives were/are present in Kalaikunda. So - hopefully - we will see their stories in the next day or two.

JCage · Post by **JCage** » 17 Nov 2005 20:39

Babui wrote:Where the hell is the IAF's 'Media Relations Group' !!! All the pics and stories are from Unkil. How the hell is the IAF going to attract top talent if it doesn't publicize its exercises ?! Just because the last COPE got too much publicity - this time the IAF went to the other extreme. This is so damn frustrating. What about our own media journalists - they should be banging on the gate to be let in. Hello! Calling Vishnu Som and others........koth iaye gale - hariay gacho naki ?

I think the next demonstration outside KKD should be by BR picketing the IAF for lack of PR.

Photographs wanted (apart from USAF giving gyaan ones!).

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 17 Nov 2005 22:40

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?storyID=123012972 “It seemed like no matter our request they could quickly find it from somewhere,” she said.

A Sharma · Post by **A Sharma** » 17 Nov 2005 23:06

IAF pilots come out with flying colours at Kalaikunda

For the second year running, the IAF came out with flying colours in their brush with the world's most technological advanced airpower -- the United States of America.

Like fish taking to water, Indian fighter pilots took their maiden introduction to Airborne Early Warning and Control System (AWACS) technology, which flew over the country's skies for the first time.

Fresh from having proved their mettle in manoeuvres with their United States Air Force counterparts in exercises last year on F-15 Tomcats, IAF pilots held their own, when they came up against the Fighting Falcons, F-16's, billed as the most superior fighter in the world during the almost two week long joint exercises over this airbase.

Their performance held in an AWACS environment won them the pat from the visiting American Vice-Commander of the Pacific Fleet, Lt Gen DA Deptula and commanders of the F-16s.

"IAF pilots performed exceedingly well during the exercises which for the first time were being held in an AWACS environment", Deptula told newsmen here.

His top F-16 commander Capt Eathen White was more forthcoming saying that "IAF pilots were outstanding. We watched them very closely and have learnt a lot from them."

Indian fighter pilots were agog for flying in tandem with the E3 Sentry AWACS system saying it "definitely was a force multiplier. Giving you an eye deep beyond you".

They said they were all fired up for the induction of the Indian AWACS system by 2007.

A Sharma · Post by **A Sharma** » 17 Nov 2005 23:25

Indo-US air exercise concludes

Rich · Post by **Rich** » 17 Nov 2005 23:27

A Sharma wrote:IAF pilots come out with flying colours at Kalaikunda

Sigh! Soooo much DDM.

F-15 Tomcats

...F-16's, billed as the most superior fighter in the world...

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 17 Nov 2005 23:41

Chalo...atleast they didnt say F-15 Raptors and F-16 Mongols

Rich wrote:
A Sharma wrote:IAF pilots come out with flying colours at Kalaikunda

Sigh! Soooo much DDM.
F-15 Tomcats

...F-16's, billed as the most superior fighter in the world...

Laks · Post by **Laks** » 18 Nov 2005 00:17

Mig-29
SU-30 formation
More pics

vsunder · Post by **vsunder** » 18 Nov 2005 00:17

I checked in my archives. The airfield in 1971 that was new and whose
runway shone "like a beacon" was Uttarlai. The base commander reduced
the shine by having the runway coated with some old oil. See pg. 286,
of the book by P.C.Lal. So a dirty looking runway has its advantages.

Arun_S thanks for comments I am still getting your request ready.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 18 Nov 2005 01:14

10 minutes that shook the US Air Force

a slogan-shouting mob of 2,000 on Wednesday was enough to send shivers down the spines of these ace pilots from the US Air Force.

So much so that an American pilot who waded into a demonstration had to be "rescued" by a helicopter.

This may sound amusing to most but the organisers of Cope India 05 are not laughing

Harry · Post by **Harry** » 18 Nov 2005 01:53

What AWACS environment? Did the E-3 come back?

AnantK · Post by **AnantK** » 18 Nov 2005 02:16

Yes it did come back. Here is the link. By the way, there are other photos on yahoo also.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u ... 159042.jpg

Praveen · Post by **Praveen** » 18 Nov 2005 04:55

IAF show leaves US forces spellbound

....During the last Cope India exercise in February 2004, American F-15 pilots had admitted finding it bizarre that their Indian counterparts had routed them in many maneuvers. This time round, the buzzword was a studied ‘jointness’,though pilots told this newspaper off the record that the IAF had maintained its ‘‘one-up’’.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 18 Nov 2005 06:51

vsunder wrote:I checked in my archives. The airfield in 1971 that was new and whose
runway shone "like a beacon" was Uttarlai. The base commander reduced
the shine by having the runway coated with some old oil. See pg. 286,
of the book by P.C.Lal. So a dirty looking runway has its advantages.

Reducing contrast with the surrounding area can cause an extremely effective reduction in visibility.

On Google earth I wanted to find the Patton tank that rests outside ASC center on airport road and I had a really tough time locating it.

When I passed by that way I realised why - the tank is green as is the patch of manicured lawn around its resting place, and although the shades of green are quite different - it is nearly impossible to pick it up in the satellite photo. In fact the white painted end of its barrel and the nearly vertical white signboard next to the tank are just discernible - but not the tank itself.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 18 Nov 2005 08:24

Vishnu Som was seen giving a brief lecture on cope-india standing infront of an F-16. He explained in excellent terms why the exercise is important for IAF and how IAF was able to outperform USAF. This will surely help to quell the suspicion in the minds of the public which started after the left parties protest and will bring pride after hearing the IAF's stunning performance.
WELL DONE VISHNU.

Don't forget to watch Mission Udaan on Sunday at 10 P.M.

NG is airing an ad with mast mast songs (De la bollywood style). Watch it. Enjoy it.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 18 Nov 2005 08:26

Images:

http://specials.rediff.com/news/2005/nov/18slide1.htm

On AWACS, IAF pilots match US counterparts:
http://in.rediff.com/news/2005/nov/17us.htm

Priyank · Post by **Priyank** » 18 Nov 2005 08:42

To those who are worried about classified technical information being compromised to the USAF:

Do you think that is just a one way concern? If you remember some of the articles from last year's Cope India exercises, the USAF personnel who took part in it commented that the IAF personnel taking part were extremely aggressive in gleaning technical information from them.

So relax a bit. The IAF is not naive and knows what it is doing in these exercises. It will keep anything that it deems sensitive enough firmly under wraps. Look at Ved's previous comments about the MKI.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 18 Nov 2005 09:25

Praveen wrote:IAF show leaves US forces spellbound
....During the last Cope India exercise in February 2004, American F-15 pilots had admitted finding it bizarre that their Indian counterparts had routed them in many maneuvers. This time round, the buzzword was a studied ‘jointness’,though pilots told this newspaper off the record that the IAF had maintained its ‘‘one-up’’.

One — that it is no longer the unchallenged leader in the skies, and two—for all future joint operations in South Asia, the IAF would, without doubt, be its natural partner.

Hmmmmmmm....

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 Nov 2005 09:34

http://specials.rediff.com/news/2005/nov/17slide4.jpg

if the mig29 is carrying a belly tank, what is the capacity and how much is
the combat radius of a 29 with this tank ?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Nov 2005 10:38

Now that the exercises are over can we discuss what they mean in strategic terms with GerorgJ's permission?

Rajit Ojha · Post by **Rajit Ojha** » 18 Nov 2005 11:44

Vishnu Som was seen giving a brief lecture on cope-india standing infront of an F-16. He explained in excellent terms why the exercise is important for IAF and how IAF was able to outperform USAF. This will surely help to quell the suspicion in the minds of the public which started after the left parties protest and will bring pride after hearing the IAF's stunning performance.

Anyone record that video?

Bharat Rakshak

Cope India 2005 - Kalaikunda AFS - Part I

cope 2005

Vishnu's report