Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

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krishnan
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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby krishnan » 26 Mar 2014 16:37

Singha wrote:first they will choose a underpowered engine, then discover there is no right sized engine for the weight and performance and be forced to fund a new engine somewhere.


no they will buy a whole new A/C by doing a 5 year tender comedy

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby A Sharma » 26 Mar 2014 18:22

HAL can use the same Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6A-25C engine used in PC-7 Mk II. That way they can reduce costs too.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby NRao » 26 Mar 2014 19:10


Viv S
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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby Viv S » 26 Mar 2014 19:56

A Sharma wrote:HAL can use the same Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6A-25C engine used in PC-7 Mk II. That way they can reduce costs too.


My thoughts exactly. The LCH, Dhruv & LUH share an engine type. It would be sensible to build an aircraft around the P&W engine and retain commonality. But given the functioning of the MoD, one can only hope that it emerges as the cheapest option after the dust settles.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby Indranil » 26 Mar 2014 21:05



That is very old news. The engine has already been selected. The tender was floated in early 2013 and extended multiple times in 2013. The engine is now believed to be chosen. I think in AI-11 they had said that they wanted a PT-6. However I don't know what engine they have finally chosen.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby Singha » 27 Mar 2014 09:34

Viv S wrote:
A Sharma wrote:HAL can use the same Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6A-25C engine used in PC-7 Mk II. That way they can reduce costs too.


My thoughts exactly. The LCH, Dhruv & LUH share an engine type. It would be sensible to build an aircraft around the P&W engine and retain commonality. But given the functioning of the MoD, one can only hope that it emerges as the cheapest option after the dust settles.


not only does it have to be cheapest. ppl will raise technical objections it is 20kg heavier, overpowered and a customized version is necessary for a billion$ budget. HAL engine divisions would love to tinker around and assemble this "india specific variant" rather than just directly import the damn things (we wont need more than 400 sets)....there will be silky talk of indian being granted "re export rights" to this engine etc etc...you KNOW THE DRILL.

perfection is always enemy of good enough.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby srin » 27 Mar 2014 11:51

That is not the biggest problem.

An "agent" will approach some MoD babu offering some money and we will blacklist the engine and ground the types of aircraft.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby vic » 27 Mar 2014 14:40

They are two main turboprop engines in the world, one PT6 is being used in Saras and another Garrett in Dornier. PT6 is more used and it is almost sure that PT6 will be selected. Now taking 4 years for this decision is criminal and smells of Conspircay theory that time was being wasted for some other reasons like negotiating cuts, delaying HTT etc.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby Sri Harsha » 28 Mar 2014 14:09

Air Force's new C-130 J aircraft crashes near Gwalior, five killed

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/air-f ... 1395997554

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 838303.cms

Sad News.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby Aditya_V » 28 Mar 2014 15:53

Feel sad for the 5 IAF lives lost.

But the C-130J and C-17 at the price they were bought are questionable deals, like the M-4 deals.

I think the best purchase by us from USA was the P-8I's.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby rkhanna » 28 Mar 2014 17:05

Apparently there was SF team on board as well :(

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby Philip » 28 Mar 2014 17:42

Awful news.Heavy loss of life,one's heart goes out to the families and loved ones.This is a brand new aircraft and type in service,bought at huge cost, and the aircraft was lost not on a Himalayan run but in the plains.A thorough investigation should be done.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby Mort Walker » 28 Mar 2014 22:13

^^^It is terrible and justifiable to be pi$$ed about the lives lost, but the C-130J is operated by many AFs around the world with little issue. It doesn't mean that nothing could have gone bad in the avionics or engines, but aside from the IAF, the USAF and LM will want to know the details of the crash as well for the safety of their crews and for sales of the C-130J.

member_28502
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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby member_28502 » 29 Mar 2014 10:45

first learn to make some good trainers instead of buying that too from Swiss who never saw action....


here is one to copy

Image

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby chetak » 29 Mar 2014 11:52

Aditya_V wrote:Feel sad for the 5 IAF lives lost.

But the C-130J and C-17 at the price they were bought are questionable deals, like the M-4 deals.

I think the best purchase by us from USA was the P-8I's.


MMS's payback to the US for the fraudulent nuke deal.

GOTUS will make money off us Indians in any which way they can and congi criminals will aid and abet them. No better than BJP criminals who will also very willingly do the same when their turn comes.

The paki terrorists who are targeting Modi are doing so at the behest of the ISI who in turn are being tasked by the CIA. This is a strong feeling that I have developed of late.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby Rony » 29 Mar 2014 16:53


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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby Paul » 29 Mar 2014 17:02

Wow...Until this theory is disproven conclusively, all US purchases of mil equipment should be put on hold. That includes the Apaches as well.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby Arunkumar » 29 Mar 2014 19:10

In a post UPA rule , I felt the C-130J and C-17 would be the only product worth ordering. Apache\p-8i\m-777\chinook\javelin all seemed like ordered only as quid pro quo for oscar for slumdog millionaire in 2009.
With this crash even this wont be ordered any further.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby NRao » 29 Mar 2014 19:23

Oh why not, while we all are at it:

K. C. Singh ‏@ambkcsingh Mar 28

C-130J crash. Last yr Canada reported that some counterfeit Chinese chips in cockpit display units could cause the display malfunctioning


May be the same chip is afflicting the MKI, which is why the Russians could not solve the problem for a whole year.

I think it is china that is behind all this and it will get worse - Indian telecom has plenty of chinese stuff. #MMS

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby TSJones » 29 Mar 2014 19:58

delete
Last edited by TSJones on 29 Mar 2014 20:12, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby TSJones » 29 Mar 2014 20:05

NRao wrote:Oh why not, while we all are at it:

K. C. Singh ‏@ambkcsingh Mar 28

C-130J crash. Last yr Canada reported that some counterfeit Chinese chips in cockpit display units could cause the display malfunctioning


May be the same chip is afflicting the MKI, which is why the Russians could not solve the problem for a whole year.

I think it is china that is behind all this and it will get worse - Indian telecom has plenty of chinese stuff. #MMS


A number of years back there was a problem with nuts and bolts that were supposed certified to a certain strength turns out they were chinese counterfeits. Since then the DoD has a monitoring and test program for all of its equipment that it orders especially electronics. The product must meet these standards. that is one of the reasons why everything is so expensive that it contracts for.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby NRao » 29 Mar 2014 20:19

The F-35 program recently got permission to use chinese "stuff".

But tweeter has its own universe. Ppl say wha dey wnt, evn if it makes no sense. #irresponsible

(BTW, I used http://tiny.tw/index.php to come up with that crap)

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby vic » 29 Mar 2014 22:30

Loosing a four engined turboprop is not a normal accident.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby Philip » 30 Mar 2014 03:33

We've had 2 decades of accident free operations of the mighty IL-76s.The Hercules has also been one of the truly great aircraft built,with few accidents due to mechanical failure.The most infamous was the one that carried the crate of mangoes,but actually crashed because of poison gas incapacitating the crew.The circumstances of this accident must be very thoroughly investigated.The spate of major accidents involving the services evokes some suspicion.Perhaps not all are due to human error or mech. failure,but human intent.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby Philip » 30 Mar 2014 07:37

Probe hit defence deals worth 1.2 lakh crore stir up controversy New indian express

The report alleges that Scamthony has raised "red flags" yet again on the A-330 MRTT tankers (Airbus under CBI scanner in another deal,file sent to the Law Min.),offset proposals for the Rafale (discrepancies in 50% offset proposal),and LUH helo (Fennec lowest bidder,but entire deal under shadow of the AW scam,alleged payoff demanded by a Brigadier,etc.,which Saw Gen.BK Singh order a CBI probe into the LUH deal).The MMRCA deal was "almost ready" but couldn't be signed due to the financial crunch.But Scamthony himself raised Qs about the offsets and whenever it happens will raise Qs from whoever is in the Opposition.

The report alleges that Scamthony is making decisions on these deals difficult for whoever replaces him. If true,he will surely go down in Indian history as its worst ever DM,probably worst ever cabinet minister since Independence!

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby vic » 30 Mar 2014 08:12

Saras was to fly again in January, any reports about what happened?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby NRao » 30 Mar 2014 08:29

40 Pages of good info:

Show Daily

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby NRao » 30 Mar 2014 08:30


vic
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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby vic » 30 Mar 2014 12:12

HAL achievements:-

Saras - delayed by 7 years

IJT- delayed by 7 years

LUH- delayed by 3 years

HTT-40-delayed by 3 years

Forgot to set up LCA production line


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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby Singha » 31 Mar 2014 09:45

Airbus, on its part, claims its A-330MRTT can carry 111 tonnes of fuel to recharge several fighters simultaneously through its aerial refuelling boom system. One such aircraft can support an intercontinental deployment of four fighters, apart from ferrying 50 troops and 12 tonnes of load.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby Khalsa » 31 Mar 2014 13:56

on the C-130 Crash
Tragic just plan frekin tragic.

May they rest in peace.
Just can't believe this happened.

A real shock ...

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby Philip » 31 Mar 2014 18:20

Tushar,if the IAF admit that they cannot fight a two-front war we are in deep trouble.It ultimately comes down to numbers-how many aircraft are battleworthy,war reserves,and stocks of missiles and PGMs. In such a situ,it should draw up a contingency plan,to augment the IAF asap,with as many sqds in the interim,and not standing on ceremony or snootiness demanding luxury birds in such a situ.Pak in fact is doing hat Indian did dcade sago,being pragmatic and re-equipping itself with second drawer aircraft which it can afford, build and maintain.

The new DM will have his task cut out and the new PN and cabinet should place national security as the highest priority ,re-equipping the 3 services with vital eqpt. and ordnance on a war footing before war is thrust upon us.If as is expected,Mr.Modi is our next PM with an NDA victory in the elections,there will be a concerted effort by our enemies to swiftly inflict a military debacle upon India to unseat him and the NDA ,most likely a coalition,so that the conniving Congress-wallahs can return to loot and scoot for their firang masters.

The IAF should look ot acquire immediately about 4 sqds of aircraft of types already in service,M-2000s if available and/or MIG-29s.

tushar_m

Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby tushar_m » 31 Mar 2014 21:00

The main steps to solving any problem within an organisation is to identify the problem & find lope holes.

I think this article depicts that finally we are not living in a cloud that we have a 4-5th largest air force & can tackle anything that will come in our way , without judging enemy's capabilities & our own.

Also can't argue with this

If Narendra Modi wins election, neighbours can expect a more muscular India

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby vishvak » 31 Mar 2014 21:24


Isn't it government job to see to it that this doesn't occur in the first place.

May be OT here: viewtopic.php?p=1565269#p1565269

tushar_m

Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby tushar_m » 31 Mar 2014 22:46

i know but things will change from 16th may onward's

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby suryag » 31 Mar 2014 23:16

^^^ only if NaMo is at the helm or else it is the same old stuff over and over again

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby Sanjay » 31 Mar 2014 23:47

A question - a few years ago HAL had a poster or something with the indigenous content % of the aircraft it manufactures. Does anyone remember it or where to find it ?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby member_20453 » 01 Apr 2014 14:40

If NaMo is PM, Gen V.K becomes DM, hmmm looking forward to such a set-up should be some major changes coming up.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation- September 29 2013

Postby Paul » 01 Apr 2014 14:49

VK Singh being a operations man may not be fully into the nitty gritty of bureaucratic decision making. A smart Babu could lead him astray in North Block and he would not know what to do. However if he does become DM, I would love to see JJ Singh's face on that day.

Some like Arun Shourie would be more suitable in crafting policies for bringing in the Private sector and develop collaborations with the DRDO. Also make the so called Bharat Ratnas sweat for their piece of the pie and improve their effieciencies.


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