Statewide and National runup to 2014 General elections

Shanmukh · Post by **Shanmukh** » 28 Mar 2014 18:10

muraliravi wrote:Sabir Ali is as big an islamist as anyone, if BJP can force Muthalik out in 5 hours (for how much ever an idiot he is, he has saved 1000's of hindu girls from love jihad and islamic brutality in coastal karnataka and a lot of gyaani brf members poured vitriol on this guy) then they better kick this guy out. Sabir Ali being part of BJP is unacceptable. You can check some of his statements in the last 5 years and you will shudder. I have already tweeted to BJP on this

I guess many in BRF will not like this, but Rahul Mehta's fears are coming out to be true. A wkk like MJA and now an open islamist like Sabir Ali. Who's next hafiz saeed??

With this you guys have dreams like pok, expelling bangladeshis, oh an yes, religious conversion (just like the muthalik episode, i guess it just needs an outburst from all MSM channels on how conversion is a birthright and BJP will maybe even withdraw anti conversion laws in its own states so that the great Namo can look secular).

I am quite sure we are headed the south korea way. We will get some MNC funded growth in 10 years and Namo will be face of it, but underneath (EJ agents will go full blast with their game and Saudi agents like Sabir Ali will ensure that B'deshis get citizenship and maybe even a south asian union)

I officially withdraw my support for Namo (not that i count for anything) because all this cannot happen without his knowledge and if it is happening he is equally culpable because if he cannot handle his own party, how is he going to handle the govt.

MuraliRavi-ji,
Can you or someone else point to his Islamist statements?

Added: I ask because I am in India now, and have full access to both Karnataka BJP and Karnataka wing of the RSS. I want to see if either can do anything. There are plenty of Karnataka leaders who are smarting under the Muthalik fiasco. If there is clear evidence of his being an Islamist, the Karnataka BJP will probably force the central BJP to back down on Sabir Ali (there are times when internecine battles can work in our favour).

kapilrdave · Post by **kapilrdave** » 28 Mar 2014 18:18

+108 to RajeshA saar. I'm opposed to sabir, MJA and even Madhu Kishwar. I have sympathy for Muthalik and have a great respect for his work with BD (it is not like every single hindu must act cool, calm and oh-so-civilized neither it is in hinu's interest). I also fully support most of Rahul Mehta's views. But not at this time. This is the time to fight with enemy, not among ourselves. Who knows, NM might have some plans for sabir or may be not. In fact I'm pretty sure that all these neo-converts will show their true color when time comes to choose between dharma and adharma. And such time WILL come. THAT IS the day we should oppose them and protest BJP to force to show them their place. Not now. Not now.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 28 Mar 2014 18:19

I feel more concerned at a MJA than a Sabir Ali. One thing the induction of both and some others is the statements coming out from them: That they were wrong in their assessments of Modi. That there was falsehood being peddled. These statements and the steady flow of such folks from secular parties indicates a massive wedge being driven in the heart of Secular Nagar. It's breaking. Maybe we need a few more Sabir Ali types, a Naresh Agarwal who has bad mouthed NM in the past also to break. This is storming a bastion. If some who were supposed to guard the bastion are joining NAMO with pushing the battering ram and destroying the bastion, i see little harm. Once the bastion is destroyed these turncoat sepoys can be given a fresher look. They either size up or ship out. But the bastion has to be taken.

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 28 Mar 2014 18:21

Boss you play with the cards that you are dealt with, not with what you think you have or should have. MsM and the current value system in India accepts a rabid MS but does not accept a rabid Hindu (if he is that even). We may not like it, but that is the way it is. Unfortunately, this value system/manufactured consent/Maya/falsehood (put your favorite word), effects a decent % of the population (mostly English educated junta). Of these, many are supposed to vote Modi, you cannot afford to loose their vote. Being principled is stupid when your life is at stake. I challenge anyone to try this in personal life, take an unpopular stand, one that can cause you immense harm (and has little practical value to you) and then go through it and the pain and suffering that it brings. Most will bail out saying I am not stupid or it is impractical, well you are right and that is what exactly BJP is doing.

rohitv · Post by **rohitv** » 28 Mar 2014 18:21

muraliravi wrote: I officially withdraw my support for Namo (not that i count for anything) because all this cannot happen without his knowledge and if it is happening he is equally culpable because if he cannot handle his own party, how is he going to handle the govt.

Murali ji not now.

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 28 Mar 2014 18:22

RajeshA wrote:muraliravi ji,

I am totally in favor of keeping the coals under BJP's feet and even making NaMo sweat, but not during an ongoing battle, and election is a battle.

NaMo knows the agenda and burden of Hindutva he carries on his shoulders, and this weight he would be made aware of constantly, but during war, I don't want the general to have to worry about his back, when the true enemy is in front.

Sir, I agree and I subscribe bigtime to realpolitik. So if he was inducted for electoral benefits then it ok (but we all know that is not the case, I see your point on him setting up jdu in delhi, but that will not help bjp. Muslims WILL NOT vote BJP whatsoever, this needs to be very explicit, at least you can be sure no muslim in North India will vote for BJP). So why was he brought in, to give secular credentials to Namo, see that is what gets me. This is just like Jis Tahli mein khate ho, usi mein ched karo. Namo should understand he is winning on a united spectrum of hindu vote. Then there is this logic of appealing to hindu seculars, i see no logic in appealing to them by inducting sabir ali. Overall a big disappointment sir. I am not going to go overboard and spoil this thread. Will keep posting electoral snippets. But I am starting my website today and I hope many here will help me. My goal is to keep a 24x7 fire burning under Namo/BJP's feet after May 2014. Every MP's cell no. will be in there. We will bombard them with every promise in their manifesto. BTW only 9 days for voting of phase 1 and BJP is still writing its manifesto..

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 28 Mar 2014 18:25

fanne wrote:Boss you play with the cards that you are dealt with, not with what you think you have or should have. MsM and the current value system in India accepts a rabid MS but does not accept a rabid Hindu (if he is that even). We may not like it, but that is the way it is. Unfortunately, this value system/manufactured consent/Maya/falsehood (put your favorite word), effects a decent % of the population (mostly English educated junta). Of these, many are supposed to vote Modi, you cannot afford to loose their vote. Being principled is stupid when your life is at stake. I challenge anyone to try this in personal life, take an unpopular stand, one that can cause you immense harm (and has little practical value to you) and then go through it and the pain and suffering that it brings. Most will bail out saying I am not stupid or it is impractical, well you are right and that is what exactly BJP is doing.

None of this explains why they cannot shut the door on Sabir Ali. Who in BJP gave him the hint that BJP will accept him if he praises Namo sitting inside JDU office. Why was Bihar BJP made to convey that information to him. The root question is why is Namo wanting such people in BJP. It is not like sabir ali knew that BJP wont reject him and so one fine day he decided to get fired from jdu by praising BJP. Next, the secular english hindu junta will not be wooed by sabir ali, what appeal does he have??

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 28 Mar 2014 18:26

nageshks wrote: MuraliRavi-ji,
Can you or someone else point to his Islamist statements?

Digging right now, I vividly remember those videos, unfortunately youtube does not have date wise sorting. Will get it soon.

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 28 Mar 2014 18:28

BJP needs to be a right of centre party while we need another party to occupy the space to it's right.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 28 Mar 2014 18:30

In this battle, there will be many moves by NaMo, by BJP, thinking short term and long term, and not all moves can be interpreted by the superficial, "an Islamist has joined BJP because he feels comfortable with NaMo, since NaMo has decided to turn secular".

It can be for some electoral contribution by the Islamist in a crucial seat, it can be to give an impression of comfort with the Muslim community, so that they don't band together so firmly against the BJP, it can be to disarm seculars of their "secularism" weaponry, it can be for information he carries on a certain network or financial flow, it can be to further a certain sectarian fault-line in the other community, it can be to take on an even bigger Islamist in some area, it can be to put a certain rival community at ease, so that one gets more time to prepare for a more thorough transformation. It could simply be a tactical addition.

Whatever be the reason for the new addition, if it is helping the forces of Hindutva either in the short, medium or longer term, one should take it. Let's not think that the other side is not bikaau!

kapilrdave · Post by **kapilrdave** » 28 Mar 2014 18:34

muraliravi wrote:My goal is to keep a 24x7 fire burning under Namo/BJP's feet after May 2014. Every MP's cell no. will be in there. We will bombard them with every promise in their manifesto.

You have me on that.

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 28 Mar 2014 18:34

A few settled points:
1) RSS is the constraint on BJP in case of a clash of vision. BJP leaders can however negotiate a new balance within the constraints imposed by RSS.
2) Everybody (friends and foe alike) fear this constraints since it can have implications on personal ambitions.
3) Cadre of the RSS and allied organisations is so varied and yet so tied up by deeper levels that this simply cannot deteriorate or get hijacked into a nazi Brown Shirt like organisation.
4) The Sanghis are just as dependent on NaMo as NaMo is on larger Sangh. NaMo is actually much advanced a Sanghi then most of the BJP supporters or "NaMo only but not BJP supporters".

My speculation:
1) The rash of converts that we see today, have in effect burnt their hands with their initiate organisations.
2) These converts will now burn their hands again in BJP under a NaMo leadership.
3) Some of them are either spies or in a genuine manner some are politically frustrated people.
4) NaMo & team, knows this and that is why they are silent. They are merely doing a reverse D&R (divide and rule).

Signs for confirmation:
1) Some of these people will be put before the TV in the next 2 years.
2) Some will be used to spread further disinformation or negotiating with opponents.

Problem point:
Some will be genuine political converts, with good worth for BJP. But there may not be enough insider track on these people. So how do you track these people. Now there are criminal types in Gujarat that were taken in and they did well for themselves, while remaining under NaMo's control and remained out of further trouble. So there probably is some mechanism at least to judge the political worth. The nationalist scale may still not be there. Probably we can wait for that, probably we cannot - open point of anxiety. But we can rest assured on one count. If NaMo and CMs are unwilling to bear the burden of Muttalik then they will not bear the burden of useless converts. The Saudi money is something of a strawman. There is infinitely more money to be made elsewhere. And try hard as they may they cannot avoid the consolidation of Hindus. If they want to sink money in consolidation of Hindus then I can only laugh.

Caveat - Sabir Ali, MJA, Jagdambika Pal nothing goes of my father if all of them are kicked out or allowed to stay.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 28 Mar 2014 18:37

Paul wrote:BJP needs to be a right of centre party while we need another party to occupy the space to it's right.

BJP in due time can go and occupy the space Congress should have occupied if it had remained true to the aspirations of Indians in 1947.

There is most definitely space for a new right of BJP party, but let's give BJP some time under NaMo to decimate Congress and seculars politically.

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 28 Mar 2014 18:47

MJA and Sabir Ali are a necessary foil to Hindus who wear skull caps in order to get votes. Forget all the fancy moralizing-- this is war.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Mar 2014 18:54

true. to first gain the breakthrough objective points in deep battle, some shady all-lies may be necessary here and there. thats reality.

either BJP can be true dharmic and sit on a stool with 150 seats or be pragmatic and get to a position where the CLEANUP can begin.

the same old disease of holding the BJP to a higher std than the assorted pigs it is fighting against...

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 28 Mar 2014 18:55

harbans wrote:I feel more concerned at a MJA than a Sabir Ali. One thing the induction of both and some others is the statements coming out from them: That they were wrong in their assessments of Modi. That there was falsehood being peddled. These statements and the steady flow of such folks from secular parties indicates a massive wedge being driven in the heart of Secular Nagar. It's breaking. Maybe we need a few more Sabir Ali types, a Naresh Agarwal who has bad mouthed NM in the past also to break. This is storming a bastion. If some who were supposed to guard the bastion are joining NAMO with pushing the battering ram and destroying the bastion, i see little harm. Once the bastion is destroyed these turncoat sepoys can be given a fresher look. They either size up or ship out. But the bastion has to be taken.

Keep friends close, enemies closer. I suppose?

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 28 Mar 2014 18:56

Victor wrote:MJA and Sabir Ali are a necessary foil to Hindus who wear skull caps in order to get votes. Forget all the fancy moralizing-- this is war.

Exactly, whereas Pramod Muthalik would have scared away the Macaulayized secularized Hindus and Dhimmis, addition of Sabir Ali would convince the same group that BJP is also a Congress B and hence their secular utopia and "idea of India" are not going to be trampled upon and the horrible Gujarat riots of 2002 are a non-issue.

The danger is that some Hindutvavadis too may buy the same koolaid and look at NaMo's BJP as Congress B, which it is not, and thus turn away.

One can understand the doubts and fears of Hindus when all their past so called leaders have let them down, but if one can't trust the RSS, then Hindus are never going to have a leader.

member_28468 · Post by **member_28468** » 28 Mar 2014 19:07

kapilrdave wrote:
There are two lies in this video.

1. There are 4% muslims in Guj
2. There are 20% muslims in Saharanpur

In guj they are more than at least 8%. And I've been to Saharanpur. They are more than at least 35%. Why is he lying in front of his own people? I would think he would inflate the numbers to boost the morale of peace lovers. Did he know that he is going to be published in news channels?

I think he claims 42% muslim in Saharanpur. The hindi word used i think is "बयालीस {bayalis}".

He said 42 and he is right i lived there for one year

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 28 Mar 2014 19:12

RajeshA wrote:
One can understand the doubts and fears of Hindus when all their past so called leaders...

When in doubt, refer to Mahabharata and the actions of Sri Krishna. Deception and non-chivalrous means were used to defeat Duryodhan on His advice because He knew how crucial it was to win. The end counts, not the means.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 28 Mar 2014 19:13

NaMo has his work cut out- in the last few years has shouldered the burden of victimhood stoically despite overwhelming evidnece to the contrary by sickular leaders and msm.

The main issue is the mindset of the eductaed "internet' savvy population esp middle class Hindu folks who have drank the kool aid of sickularism.
many non Hindu middle class folks also do the same but at an advantage for them as sicklarism makes them proud of their religion whereas the same make a Hindu asahmed of his religion.

To reverse the sickularism needs to form a govt like that of NaMo for at least 1-2 decades.

for this NaMo(and his successors later on) needs lot ofsupport - esp middle class internet savvy folks. If these folks drop their pants at the every turn or cross that NaMo/BJP takes for perceived misconcetions of sickularism , then we deserve the sickularism kool aid.

every middle class person rants against sickularism but fails to do the needful-as in help NaMo and his team-- yes keep the coals under NaMo/BJP feet to make sure that they dont deviate from the pathway.
we need every one to support the best man. no second thoughts or dropping off pants to shows ones @#$% credentials.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
secularism in non Indian countries- people are proud of their abrahamic religion/traditions ie the majority religion. many minority folks have to apepase the abrahamic relgions to become political or non political leaders. despite that many are not elelcted or become important.

in India it is reverse- minorities are proud of their relions and tradtions but wantonly diss majority. same the case with Hindus who do the same. No wonder we have DIEs and SLIMEs and many other acronyms.

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 28 Mar 2014 19:16

RajeshA wrote:
Victor wrote:MJA and Sabir Ali are a necessary foil to Hindus who wear skull caps in order to get votes. Forget all the fancy moralizing-- this is war.
Exactly, whereas Pramod Muthalik would have scared away the Macaulayized secularized Hindus and Dhimmis, addition of Sabir Ali would convince the same group that BJP is also a Congress B and hence their secular utopia and "idea of India" are not going to be trampled upon and the horrible Gujarat riots of 2002 are a non-issue.

The danger is that some Hindutvavadis too may buy the same koolaid and look at NaMo's BJP as Congress B, which it is not, and thus turn away.

One can understand the doubts and fears of Hindus when all their past so called leaders have let them down, but if one can't trust the RSS, then Hindus are never going to have a leader.

Exactly, what is this high chair on which Namo/BJP is sitting where they think they can dish out any shit on hindus and they will still be forced to vote for BJP, while all this macaulized hindus will never vote for BJP whatever you do.

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 28 Mar 2014 19:19

Sabid Ali is unacceptable. Who's next? Dawood, as Mukhtar Abbas Naqvi said on Twitter?

I have no other option than to vote for BJP, I'd have voted for BJP even if they put a donkey as their candidate, but those who are not so enamored by Hindutva will have other option and they will exercise it.

When Kejriwal shares a photo with MMS & Modi on different sides but with absolutely identical MPs, can I really tell that dog he's wrong?

NaMo has let me down.

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 28 Mar 2014 19:21

...and wasn't Yasin Bhatkal arrested from Sabir Ali's house?

How long before Shri Narendra Modi invites Hafiz Sayeed into BJP?

Comer · Post by **Comer** » 28 Mar 2014 19:22

^^ Yup, that was a wrong decision and hope he is expelled from the party. I don't have any issues with MJ Akbar joining but not Shabir Ali. I also wish Naqvi hasn't gone public with dragging in Dawood's name.
Whose bright idea was it? Hope NaMo gets a better grip on the party, too many loose threads.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 28 Mar 2014 19:24

muraliravi wrote:
RajeshA wrote:The danger is that some Hindutvavadis too may buy the same koolaid and look at NaMo's BJP as Congress B, which it is not, and thus turn away.
Exactly, what is this high chair on which Namo/BJP is sitting where they think they can dish out any shit on hindus and they will still be forced to vote for BJP, while all this macaulized hindus will never vote for BJP whatever you do.

The high chair is called TINA.

Yes a real Hindu would feel offended by some Islamist joining BJP but does the real Hindu have a different plan to recapture his Rashtra other than supporting NaMo right now?

Let's not get into sending SMSes around.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 28 Mar 2014 19:25

nageshks wrote: Unfortunately, it won't. In places like UP, Haryana and Bihar, the BJP is registering nearly a 20% (~15%-35% in UP) swing in its favour. But the problem is that the BJP vote share in many places was so abysmally low (WB, AP, TN) that even a 20% vote swing won't give BJP more than a few seats more. In other places like Rajasthan, Gujarat, MP, BJP seat share is already maximised. All this focus on UP, Bihar, Karnataka, Orissa (they should focus a bit more on Haryana, IMO, or maybe they are calculating on a back room deal with Chauthala) is not for fun and games. BJP can win big if it achieves a 15% vote push here. All in all, my own estimate for BJP is between 190 and 195 at this point. Everything it achieves beyond 195 is a bonus, IMO.

As far as TN goes, Congress is moving into a tough spot with each passing day. DMK does not want to strike an alliance, but it can always get into bed with anyone post elections - even BJP. Chidambaram openly called AIADMK as the BJP B-team. BJP has struck an alliance with 6 parties that look solid on paper. Chidambaram thinks JJ will go to BJP post elections.

And based on the hourly news cycle, united AP is moving towards NDA.

So in 2014, looks like AP and TN both will side with NDA. In the last elections UPA had a rich harvest from these two states - in terms of seats and alliances.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 28 Mar 2014 19:26

What I fail to understand is why can't we ask BJP to throw out Sabir Ali after the elections? Why are we making a big thing out of it just before the elections?

Comer · Post by **Comer** » 28 Mar 2014 19:28

^^Nope, BJP listened to folks on Mutalik, why not this?
Electorally too, which incremental votes are sought by this induction?

Shanmukh · Post by **Shanmukh** » 28 Mar 2014 19:33

RajeshA wrote: The high chair is called TINA.

Yes a real Hindu would feel offended by some Islamist joining BJP but does the real Hindu have a different plan to recapture his Rashtra other than supporting NaMo right now?

Let's not get into sending SMSes around.

This is an extremely dangerous argument. ABV found out that TINA did not work anymore in 2004. Disgusted Hindus kicked him in the teeth. Let us not count on TINA for the sake of a Sabir Ali.

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 28 Mar 2014 19:34

ye Sabir Ali hai kaun,he managed to gets chaddi in twist.

rvishwak · Post by **rvishwak** » 28 Mar 2014 19:34

RajeshA wrote:What I fail to understand is why can't we ask BJP to throw out Sabir Ali after the elections? Why are we making a big thing out of it just before the elections?

Yes keep him till elections, would be a reality check for Nikumma who keeps on saying that there is no NAMO wave.
BJP can always say, "Niku dear, now you see the wave which blew Sabir Ali from JD(U) to BJP"

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 28 Mar 2014 19:35

THis sabir ali chute neds to get the boot. I mean, pronto. No effing way. A golden chance for social media walas to reaffirm their heft, say, hey?.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 28 Mar 2014 19:37

Am not aware of Sabir Ali's Islamist credentials or that Bhatkal was at his house when arrested. Any links? It does change things a bit i must say. Why the induction then? My awareness was confined to that he was a Modi baiter in the JDU camp.

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 28 Mar 2014 19:42

saravana wrote:^^Nope, BJP listened to folks on Mutalik, why not this?
Electorally too, which incremental votes are sought by this induction?

None, we better get used to the fact that Namo has been secularized and he feels it is necessary to induct these people to appear secular onlee. Dont u after all see in speech after speech, impromptu (with no context whatsoever) he starts ranting "Mera mussalman bhai, Gujarat mein Haj yatra ki subsidy itne log use karte hain" and yah, I was hoping he will remove the subsidy. Just recently in his Gaya speech Namo discovered Gita, Bible and Koran to be equally sacred. Good going boss.

While everyone here seems to think that he is doing all this chanakyan stuff and once he gets power, he will be back to hindu roots, we will see that also. 2 months is not a long time.

BTW Nielsen has a MH poll

NDA : 31
UPA: 13
MNS: 1
AAP: 0
Others (who are also NDA): 3

Looks good for BJP, I was a little worried on MH. Hope other polls confirm the same.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 28 Mar 2014 19:43

ONe more thing, when JDU was in alliance with BJP then Sabir Ali was very much a non pariah. HE was even supported by BJP towards RS membership. This Gita=Bible=Koran thing is truly bugging.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 28 Mar 2014 19:48

ravi_g wrote: Caveat - Sabir Ali, MJA, Jagdambika Pal nothing goes of my father if all of them are kicked out or allowed to stay.

Good summary.

There are very few democratic ways to handle the Islamists and their Secular Burkhas.

NM is doing the right thing, for now. I am confident he will put them to RIGHT use

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 28 Mar 2014 19:49

@ (down with BJP due to Sabir Ali folks)

Yeah, you have many options other than NaMo, go in a frenzy and vote for Mulayam. That will show them.

No wonder the self professed Hindutva crowd has been given a go by, by BJP. So, so fickle, with supporters like these, who needs congress.

===============================

Once again, I can come back and say I told you so. ABV, LKA, SS, now RNS and NaMo.

NO ONE is good enough. No tactical manoeuvring is allowed. Not a shred of basing of expectation and views and hopes in the soil of reality.

Wow

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 28 Mar 2014 19:50

saravana wrote:^^Nope, BJP listened to folks on Mutalik, why not this?
Electorally too, which incremental votes are sought by this induction?

Because BJP hopes that its Hindutva base remains firm. NaMo's fight has been to win over the non-Hindutva voters through development and good governance jargon and to energize the base through enlargement of NaMo's appeal, putting victory within reach and soft Hindutva.

BJP needs to expand into Dhimmified Hindu space, especially in urban areas, where "idea of India" still seems to play out. Now how to do this?

Pramod Muthalik would have pushed this constituency away. Sabir Ali's inductions pulls this constituency in into BJP.

It's not for nothing that one calls one's strongest supporters - the base. This base has to be able to stand and bear the burden of everything that comes up on top. One can't have the people in the base running away, saying "I don't like the smell of the feet of whosoever who has decided to stand on my shoulders". This is lack of faith. True old BJP was hardly an org to inspire faith especially with the coopted Dilli-Billi, but NaMo has rekindled one's faith again. But that means, you still have to be willing to form the base.

The base has to stand! But here the base seems to be so weak in its faith, BJP can't build anything on top of it.

Let's face it - the true Hindu is becoming ever more a small minority in India. Most so-called Hindus are captive in fight for survival or comfort. Building a base on the Hindu would become more and more of a challenge, especially if those forming the base, decide to opt out.

It is not the time to be too clever. It is a time to stand firm.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 28 Mar 2014 19:51

Sanku maharaj,

Namaskar! How are you? My 4th kajjin remembered you few moons ago.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 28 Mar 2014 19:53

RamaY wrote:Sanku maharaj,

Namaskar! How are you? My 4th kajjin remembered you few moons ago.

Hanging in there

hoping; praying, working.