Sanku wrote:No some people in BRF are disconnected with reality. Has always been.
Forget about BRF reactions. What Chanikyan stuff is behind Shabbir Ali. He is borderline terrorist and the one who signed to not allow Modi to USA along with other worthies. I love to know the spin even if it is called Chanikyan.
Sorry, this is definitely out of line by who even did this. MJA is a different one where you can trust with verification.
True. If only we had a "fair and balanced" media we would have had some ask Sri Shabbir Ali-
If he retracts his signature from that no-visa to Modi application and if so why?
If he says he stands by his daskat then he is called a congi-mole and removed.
muraliravi wrote:With this you guys have dreams like pok, expelling bangladeshis, oh an yes, religious conversion (just like the muthalik episode, i guess it just needs an outburst from all MSM channels on how conversion is a birthright and BJP will maybe even withdraw anti conversion laws in its own states so that the great Namo can look secular).
OT: I do think conversion is a birthright, an individual should have the Right to convert to another religion. All one can demand is have a level playing field and justice.
However, I think proselytizers should be kicked out. They are funded by foreign entities with a goal to eventually subjugate India. That is what the Arabs did to countries like Pakistan, BD, Afghanistan etc. turned them into religious slaves.
I am angry now. This is such a catch-22 situation. Why did BJP jumped into this situation is ridiculous only. Internal sabotage is going on in full swing. First Muthallik and now Sabir Ali.
SagarAg wrote:
I am angry now. This is such a catch-22 situation. Why did BJP jumped into this situation is ridiculous only. Internal sabotage is going on in full swing. First Muthallik and now Sabir Ali.
why angry? Muthalik has to work hard to be acceptable to yuppie crowd and Sabir Ali now has to work hard to be acceptable to non-Muslim crowd.
This is what is called "centralization"., basically extremism on both sides are getting softened up. And no it is not a zero-sum game and neither it works perfectly.
I am against taking some aira gaira minority member and parade him around to show how awesome and sweet we are. That shows lack of self pride and has been the bane of the Congress. I think BJP may be falling into the same trap. ALL members have to sign up to a certain ideology publicly in order to be member. If the party wants RJB Temple constructed, all members should be prepared to openly say so. Otherwise there would be Trojan Horse situation onlee.
SagarAg wrote:
I am angry now. This is such a catch-22 situation. Why did BJP jumped into this situation is ridiculous only. Internal sabotage is going on in full swing. First Muthallik and now Sabir Ali.
BJP is a more federal party and state units have more power than CongI. Tactical compromises should be allowed to reach the goal.
Just as CongI has the support of Shankaracharya of Dwaraka.
RamaY wrote:
True. If only we had a "fair and balanced" media we would have had some ask Sri Shabbir Ali-
If he retracts his signature from that no-visa to Modi application and if so why?
If he says he stands by his daskat then he is called a congi-mole and removed.
process Muppala gaaru.. process...
RamaY garu, not just that. Yasin Bathkal got arrested from Shabbir Ali's place. Now they reverting the decision after strong opposition. I don't call it democracy. These flip-flops are not good as well.
SagarAg wrote:
I am angry now. This is such a catch-22 situation. Why did BJP jumped into this situation is ridiculous only. Internal sabotage is going on in full swing. First Muthallik and now Sabir Ali.
why angry? Muthalik has to work hard to be acceptable to yuppie crowd and Sabir Ali now has to work hard to be acceptable to non-Muslim crowd.
This is what is called "centralization"., basically extremism on both sides are getting softened up. And no it is not a zero-sum game and neither it works perfectly.
I agree with what you are saying disha ji. Both of them represents extremes of left and right. I have absolutely no problem with both of them trying to mend their ways and soften up and be part of centralized unit. They are most welcome to do that. But I am angry because of the timing of this. The stakes are really high and this is not the right time to place such bets.
A data point from teeter,
These days the traditional saffron colored Kamal of BJP has quietly given away to a white colored (sikular?) Kamal in many of its Teeter accounts.
Is it because overseas sikulars like Sadanand Dhume whose recent farticle on Khujli carried a reference to BJPs symbol being Saffron (he mischievously associates Saffron with Hindu religion when its more a cultural color of Bharateeyata (as in indicness) representing the whole Hindu-Sikh-Jaina-Buddhist traditions).
So BJP brass seems to have given Sikular directives to replace Kesri Kamal with below white Kamal namoonas.
Even Tajinder Bagga for whom I have respect is sadly now a party to this farce.
Wow, one guy on NewsX discussion(dunno who he is) opined that these kind of speeches are due to media hype over Modi wave. He also warned that this could lead to something worse.
All creepy crawlies out of the woodwork.
KJoishy wrote:I am against taking some aira gaira minority member and parade him around to show how awesome and sweet we are. That shows lack of self pride and has been the bane of the Congress. I think BJP may be falling into the same trap. ALL members have to sign up to a certain ideology publicly in order to be member. If the party wants RJB Temple constructed, all members should be prepared to openly say so. Otherwise there would be Trojan Horse situation onlee.
Some leaders have internalized the belief that it is unacceptable and reprehensible if Muslims don't vote for the party or aren't represented in the party. It's as simple as that. And it is frustrating to say the least.
SwamyG wrote:OT: I do think conversion is a birthright, an individual should have the Right to convert to another religion. All one can demand is have a level playing field and justice.
KJoishy wrote:I am against taking some aira gaira minority member and parade him around to show how awesome and sweet we are. That shows lack of self pride and has been the bane of the Congress. I think BJP may be falling into the same trap. ALL members have to sign up to a certain ideology publicly in order to be member. If the party wants RJB Temple constructed, all members should be prepared to openly say so. Otherwise there would be Trojan Horse situation onlee.
Some leaders have internalized the belief that it is unacceptable and reprehensible if Muslims don't vote for the party or aren't represented in the party. It's as simple as that. And it is frustrating to say the least.
All these are due to the overseas compulsions of BJP brass .
Image makeover on prodding by Overseas Sikulars like Saudis and Western "Liberals" .
I suspect the sudden White Kamal revolution in the Teetar DPs is also a symptom of this affliction.
Wonder if anyone on teetar got any replies from BJP cells on this Sikular image makeover junking the Kesri Kamals.
ramana wrote:muraliravi, The target is the opposing forces; does an action increase support or weaken them? re-eaxamine your assessment through that prism.
Indeed weakens support of hard core hindus and does not get BJP ONE SINGLE MUSLIM Vote. So net net, lose onlee. Only gain, Modi Saheb's sickular image making. In gaya, Modi saheb equated the holy Gita with Bible and Koran. Now Sabir Ali (Bhatkal supporter and host) is his secular platform.
Being a national party means one has to have the opportunity to attract all citizens - irrespective of their faith. India was never a country for just Hindus, and never will be such a country. However, Indic religions have every right to preserve, nourish and even evangelize in and out of the country - after all Indian subcontinent is its birthplace.
Is an attempt to attract diverse set of people an appeasement? Arguments can be made to say they are the same. What is note worthy is some of the answers by Modi or Amit. In that QA session between journalists and Amit, somebody asked if BJP would implement policies to uplift Muslims. Amit said it clearly, all policies will be implemented for the common - nothing special for the Hindus or Muslims. There will not be anything special for Hindu vanchith or Muslim vanchith, but for the vanchith. This is the right way IMO as it does not appease any one community over the other.
Muslims have to be brought more into mainstream before one can expect reform in Islamists behavior. And if in that process BJP or Hinduism evolves, then there is nothing anyone can do about it. That is how things have changed throughout history.
Dr Praveen Patil tweet is wrong, simple as that. Sabir Ali will bring at least some Muslim votes to BJP so it makes electoral sense; it is a powerful symbol to have a previously anti-BJP guy now singing the praises of BJP and it will make a big impact if he goes on TV to explain why he was mistaken previously.
Muppalla wrote:
RamaY garu, not just that. Yasin Bathkal got arrested from Shabbir Ali's place. Now they reverting the decision after strong opposition. I don't call it democracy. These flip-flops are not good as well.
thats why eye said process... if communalists didnt accept shaby ali outright the paid media would have been outraged. they are outraged no matter what communalists do... so the best way is to do mutalik on shabby ali... expel on populah demand (if at all)...
modi proved that he would allow lah aph land take its course with bhat-kal and facilitate it takes shabby along with him... as long as we ensure salya is killed at the end, nothing wrong in using him while we can... is the brocess..
Dr Praveen Patil tweet is wrong, simple as that. Sabir Ali willbring at least some Muslim votes to BJP so it makes electoral sense; it is a powerful symbol to have a previously anti-BJP guy now singing the praises of BJP and it will make a big impact if he goes on TV to explain why he was mistaken previously.
Keep dreaming in your cuckoo world. They will never ever vote for BJP/Modi. ABV who was considered much more moderate than Namo could never get even 1% of their vote.
Second pic speaks about his past criminal background on how he was arrested in Gulshan Kumar murder case , how he is married to Dawood Ibrahim's cousin sister. How he is a "financier" representing Hawala interests - how he landed in JDU for this reason under Sikular NiKu etc... etc
AjitK wrote:
Some leaders have internalized the belief that it is unacceptable and reprehensible if Muslims don't vote for the party or aren't represented in the party. It's as simple as that. And it is frustrating to say the least.
All these are due to the overseas compulsions of BJP brass .
Image makeover on prodding by Overseas Sikulars like Saudis and Western "Liberals" .
I suspect the sudden White Kamal revolution in the Teetar DPs is also a symptom of this affliction.
Wonder if anyone on teetar got any replies from BJP cells on this Sikular image makeover junking the Kesri Kamals.
Please to share responses if any in this thread.
Not overseas compulsions. It's just that these leaders don't want to challenge or don't have the balls to challenge the prevalent narrative: 'you have to get Muslim votes to be considered as secular'. Do we have to pander to Muslims to be considered as secular?
Make no mistake, even senior leaders aspire to be considered or labelled as 'secular'. That's the sad part of it all. Why can't they accept the fact that Muslims will not vote for the BJP? Even after decades of being part of the Hindutva movement, there isn't much clarity of thought.
Lilo wrote:
Second pic speaks about his past criminal background on how he was arrested in Gulshan Kumar murder case , how he is married to Dawood Ibrahim's cousin sister. How he is a "financier" representing Hawala interests - how he landed in JDU for this reason under Sikular NiKu etc... etc
Err.. it didnt e-stop him from sighning that sekular letter to Ombaba (US Govt accepted it) or MSM approving it; did it?
Now same guys dont want BJP to become sekular? ouch!
Arre bhai it is just to get back at Nitish. His coterie is being poached. But Sabbir Ali is toxic. Apparently, RSS has protested and he will be asked to leave.
Lilo wrote:
Second pic speaks about his past criminal background on how he was arrested in Gulshan Kumar murder case , how he is married to Dawood Ibrahim's cousin sister. How he is a "financier" representing Hawala interests - how he landed in JDU for this reason under Sikular NiKu etc... etc
Err.. it didnt e-stop him from sighning that sekular letter to Ombaba (US Govt accepted it) or MSM approving it; did it?
Now same guys dont want BJP to become sekular? ouch!
RamaY garu,
Probably not the same people.
Going by news bytes, PaidMedia and Sikular circuit seems fine with Sabir Ali induction into BJP, onlee the dutty unpaid Internet Yindoos and assorted Sanghis are raising the Stink.
LiLo, are the ballot papers/EVM colored?
If not, then your answer lies right there.
Ajit Jogi has put up 10 candidates with the same name as the BJP candidate.
What distinguishes them is the Kamal in monochrome.
Congress is a master in understanding the different touch points which can affect the balloting process.
Glad that BJP too is now focussed on seeing that the vote is actually cast to the right party.
There is no second chances on the ballot.
^ VikramS garu,
The ballot symbols in EVMs are in black and white (so were the symbols of the erst while ballot papers), but I never saw such black and white lotuses used by BJP before in its election campaigns , on this level the suspicions are disconcerting.
So let's see if they will revert back to the Kesri Lotuses after the election rounds get completed.
But I don't see the point of this familiarizing exercise in black and white , lotus is not alloted to any other party and first time young voters will be better served when informed that Lotus is the symbol rather than decolorizing it of saffron.
Sushma ji tweets no action taken. Now Naqvi ji tweets. Will be interesting to see how it folds out.
PS: Both were equally wrong in expressing their dissent out in open.
Chavan given ticket, Bansal given ticket, hate speech by CONgi MP nominee, has anyone even ONE CONgi showed their dissent out in open? NO. But BJP leaders
muraliravi wrote:
Keep dreaming in your cuckoo world. They will never ever vote for BJP/Modi. ABV who was considered much more moderate than Namo could never get even 1% of their vote.
Don't want to descend into a name-calling session even though I am tempted. The bolded part betrays a deep hatred and mistrust of 1 in 5 Indians which is something India cannot afford but let's leave that aside. The way I see it, a large number of Indian Muslims, specially the poor, are seeing some merit and hope in Modi's words. May not be the majority yet but a large number nevertheless and I believe they can see the common sense in his straightforward vision.
To win this battle, I'll take any votes I can get from any quarter, period. To not follow this simple compulsion goes against all Indic thought and is idiotic IMO. Don't forget that Valmiki was a robber and murderer.
I'm not surprised that ABV got no votes from them (if true) but that was a different time and the message was nowhere near as hopeful, pervading or powerful as Modi's.
Dr Praveen Patil tweet is wrong, simple as that. Sabir Ali will bring at least some Muslim votes to BJP so it makes electoral sense; it is a powerful symbol to have a previously anti-BJP guy now singing the praises of BJP and it will make a big impact if he goes on TV to explain why he was mistaken previously.
I am counting 0 muslim votes for BJP. And all the poll surveys are doing the same. I do not believe that anyone will vote for BJP just because earlier they were anti-bjp and now singing their praise, this in fact show their double dholki attitude. For instance Gul Panag and Meera Sanyal. Victor garu have you ever seen Sabir Ali in tv debates, he looks like an idiot blabbering rubbish. To me he provided comic relief in a tv debate. And I am pretty sure BJP does not have any shortage of TV savvy debaters.
Someone just pointed out in run up to national elections thread that this decision was taken just for personal vendetta by Bihar BJP unit against NiKu. The break up between JD(U) and Bihar BJP was so bitter that Bihar BJP is trying everything which can wipe out NiKu from politics. In process they make this error in judgement to get Sabir Ali in BJP without realizing its national impact.
When NK Singh joined BJP a few days ago, I thought why him at this juncture. He brings no electoral votes, nor TV studio mall nor symbolism. But after reading about his career, my tubelight bulb lighted it. He is just inducted as part of approver scheme. He knows too much about hawala routes and stashing stuff of many netas, babus and crony industrialists. As somebody has digged up if Sabir Ali is married to a cousin of Dawood, then he too know too much information, but BJP has bungled wrt timing. I think BJP needs to tell that all these dubious personalities are being inducted just to catch even bigger crooks and even bigger bigger amounts, if not, the revolving door (induct-expel) of BJP will annoy its supporters and prospective approvers .
^^^Exactly! All these guys are being prepared to turn approvers or they will be halalled. And I am sick of internet Hindus questioning each and every motive. This is kurukshetra NOT dharmakshetra (any more)
Guys, I dont know know how many of you here are 'OBC' or dalit or from a small town/village. All of us here are well educated, so that takes us out from the group of people who are desperate, who do not really know where they will have money from in the next month. Who really look forward to Rs 500 (even if it is for liquor). That group is desperate/has been. They are really tied to this congress mai-baap culture, because even if some money or hope once in 5 years is a big thing for them. Even if no money, same caste group helps, as he knows that someone he knows, knows that guy and at some worse situation in life he can count on that help (a good example when harassed by police or when his land/home is being illegally being possessed by someone (if you are a agri land owner, you would know, not a single land is out there without a counter claim). We all blame others for our failure, this group blames the Upper Caste (duly aided by Maculites since Macaulay times)
Now this group maybe illiterate, castist, opportunist, but they are NOT FOOLS. They know, that good governance is what they need, (and in the past their favorite villain made that promise but did not deliver) and now in Modi they see a credible choice. They are voting for him. His OBC is a big draw (even for many non Ashraf muslims). Does that mean all of them will vote for Modi, no!!, but many will. He has to go with that symbolism. For all we hate Laloo, he use to win and still wins election. The people that he moves with (he himself) will make you cring, but there is a vast group of people who think it is right. And in an election a vote of a very righteous, well educated, passionate, moral, great Hindu is equal to someone who is none of that. As the smarter person, it is upto this person to not loose the sight of the big picture.
Daru Goonda giri, pasie Phekhna only these win elections , not manifesto, not vision, not leadership. Like Mushy( just after 911 national address) and Prophet (PBUH) said if you have to sleep with the devil enjoy it no preblem as long as it serves the goal.
Dawood Bhai Sabir Ali , Kabir all are welcome into big tent party
ramana wrote:MJ Akbar and Sabbir Ali are the high-brow and low brow of the Indian Muslim minorities. Or the alpha and omega. And both are in BJP and not even NDA.
Ibrahim khan Gardi was a servant of nizam but then fought for Marathas. He was executed by Abdali himself. Let's use everything to throw out congress. Rajesh ji's posts in the election thread explain this very well.
kmkraoind wrote:When NK Singh joined BJP a few days ago, I thought why him at this juncture. He brings no electoral votes, nor TV studio mall nor symbolism. But after reading about his career, my tubelight bulb lighted it. He is just inducted as part of approver scheme. He knows too much about hawala routes and stashing stuff of many netas, babus and crony industrialists. As somebody has digged up if Sabir Ali is married to a cousin of Dawood, then he too know too much information, but BJP has bungled wrt timing. I think BJP needs to tell that all these dubious personalities are being inducted just to catch even bigger crooks and even bigger bigger amounts, if not, the revolving door (induct-expel) of BJP will annoy its supporters and prospective approvers .
Abhijit wrote:^^^Exactly! All these guys are being prepared to turn approvers or they will be halalled. And I am sick of internet Hindus questioning each and every motive. This is kurukshetra NOT dharmakshetra (any more)
Why you need approvers pre-poll? These are the stuff that you do by extending goodies or blackmail once you are in power. In about few days polls will be started and perception more important than chanikyan games. Electoral benefits are only things to be focused otherwise it will be foolish.
Victor wrote:
The bolded part betrays a deep hatred and mistrust of 1 in 5 Indians which is something India cannot afford but let's leave that aside. The way I see it, a large number of Indian Muslims, specially the poor, are seeing some merit and hope in Modi's words. May not be the majority yet but a large number nevertheless and I believe they can see the common sense in his straightforward vision.
You may want to change that 1 in 5, 14% comes to 1 in 7. Regarding the fact they have common sense in his vision, what makes you think so. Can you point out any single survey that shows increasing nationwide muslim support for BJP/Modi over the years. I believe in hard numbers and nothing else. Just because someone thinks that muslims are opening up to BJP, it does not mean much. What matters is numbers.
^^ Muraliravi'ji., one short answer Gujarat. And second, you are treating Muslims as a single monolithic block. That is not the case., please see the reference back to Gujarat and on BRF itself check the thread on shia-sunni.
1. Sabir Ali houses Indian Mujahadeen (IM) key Bhatkal
2. Sabir Ali leaves JD(U) and is part of BJP now.
3. Where will IM go? Sapa/Baspa/JD(U)/CongI?
Where will IM go? Is this a honey-sweet deal between Sabir Ali and BJP, that BJP will "shelter" Shabir and in turn IM operatives are given up? We know that a threat is hanging on NaMo.
why angry? Muthalik has to work hard to be acceptable to yuppie crowd and Sabir Ali now has to work hard to be acceptable to non-Muslim crowd. 
