Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Jan 04, 2014

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 01 Apr 2014 18:30

My Trip to North Waziristan - Part I, DT Op-ed

A Mehsudi tribesman well settled in Karachi recalls his trip the Islamic Emirate for settlement of a land dispute. Interesting reading. For example,

If you are a Mehsud tribesman and you are living in Karachi, South Waziristan or any other part of Pakistan, your case will be dealt with by the area office where your family originally came from. . . We were going to meet Mufti Noor Wali from the Sajna group who controls Mehsud tribesmen in Karachi from his headquarter in Miranshah. Karachi has the largest Mehsud population in Pakistan and all their disputes are put before Mufti Noor Wali for resolution. For the readers’ information, the Sajna group has banned jirgas (village courts) for Mehsud tribesmen in Karachi so whatever the dispute, small or big, the parties have to go to Miranshah and present their case in the court of Mufti Noor Wali.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 01 Apr 2014 18:34

Iqbal & Jinnah's Visions of Pakistan - Ishtiaq Ahmed, DT

. . . one cannot derive a linear vision of Pakistan from the ideas of Iqbal and Jinnah. Many different and contradictory visions can be culled out of their statements and writings.

This is important to realize.

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 01 Apr 2014 18:42

They thought process looks very linear to me.

Both of them sounded secular and were willing to work with Hindus initially but later veered to a separate homeland for Muslims. Iqbal wrote - Saare Jahan se accha in 1904 or so but by the 1930s he wanted a separate homeland for the Indian Muslims.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 01 Apr 2014 20:18

Nothing new but still
------------------------------>>
Pakistan a state sponsor of terrorism, Chris Alexander says
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/pakista ... -1.2593584

Canada and its allies must take a united front against Pakistan because it is a state sponsor of terrorism that threatens world security, says Citizenship and Immigration Minister Chris Alexander.

Alexander, a former ambassador to Afghanistan, said the fight against the Taliban and groups like al-Qaeda will never be won in Afghanistan alone because it is a “cross-border conflict” supported by the Pakistan government.

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 01 Apr 2014 21:02

With Humble Apologies, but, could not resist!

West Indies : 166 for Six in 20 Overs

1. Pakistan : 60 for Six in 13 Overs

Required Run Rate for Overhauling the West Indies : 16.46 Runs

2. Pakistan 79 for Nine in 17.0 Overs

Required Run Rate for Overhauling the West Indies : 29.33 Runs

3. Pakistan 82 All Out in 17.5 Overs

Required Run Rate for Overhauling the West Indies : 39.23 Runs

Cheers

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 01 Apr 2014 21:39

SSridhar wrote:Iqbal & Jinnah's Visions of Pakistan - Ishtiaq Ahmed, DT
. . . one cannot derive a linear vision of Pakistan from the ideas of Iqbal and Jinnah. Many different and contradictory visions can be culled out of their statements and writings.
This is important to realize.

Its evolved into more like a Dali than a Rembrandt and is on its way to becoming a Kandinsky painting.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 01 Apr 2014 21:59

SSridhar wrote:Iqbal & Jinnah's Visions of Pakistan - Ishtiaq Ahmed, DT
. . . one cannot derive a linear vision of Pakistan from the ideas of Iqbal and Jinnah. Many different and contradictory visions can be culled out of their statements and writings.
This is important to realize.

Interesting article.

It is Iqbal's vision that is now at the forefront, if the author is to be believed

Iqbal died before Pakistan came into being. The nearest we can come to understanding his idea of spiritual democracy is what his son Dr Javed Iqbal has to say about Pakistani nationalism: “Muslims do not have a notion of Pakistan as the ‘fatherland’ or ‘motherland’. They do not believe in worshipping the geographical features of a country called Pakistan. They are not prepared to lay down their lives merely for Pakistan’s dust, trees, deserts, mountains or rivers. This form of patriotism, according to them, is idolatrous. But in their native soil Muslims are ready and willing to lay down their lives for the religio-cultural principles on which the state of Pakistan is founded” (Ideology of Pakistan).

Pakistan's borders are weak. They do not respect their own borders, nor do they respect Indian or Afghan borders - and are forced to do it. Because India and Iran (and the Arabian sea) choose to be rigid about their borders, Pakistan has accepted fuzzy borders with Afghanistan and it keeps changing.

Now here's the rub. A nation state cannot exist unless it accepts borders and geography. Pakistan (The idea of Pakistan) does not accept borders and geography, but its borders have been frozen by the international community - ie the UN. The entire world accepts that Pakistan has some defined borders - but in fact those borders do not represent what the so ccall Pakistan "government" and Pakistan army control.

Pakistan is a failed state and this needs to be recognized and pointed out. There is currently no formula or structure that can make Pakistan a successful nation state. I think India, more than any other nations needs to understand this. For all our cursing of UPA, I seriously doubt if BJP/NDA understand this.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 01 Apr 2014 22:20

Dr Javed Iqbal has to say about Pakistani nationalism: “Muslims do not have a notion of Pakistan as the ‘fatherland’ or ‘motherland’. They do not believe in worshipping the geographical features of a country called Pakistan. They are not prepared to lay down their lives merely for Pakistan’s dust, trees, deserts, mountains or rivers. This form of patriotism, according to them, is idolatrous. But in their native soil Muslims are ready and willing to lay down their lives for the religio-cultural principles on which the state of Pakistan is founded” (Ideology of Pakistan).

That is why I call TSP a kabila or a camp. Its 'state in being' given a Westphalian construct by UK and now protected by US.
If Muslims of TSP are not ready to lay down their lives for its borders, but only for religio-cultural prinicples for which the state was formed, then he is outright defining a roving kabila that drops a tent where it can and taking sanctuary attack other states!!!
All those three letter groups:official(TSPA, Fizzleya) and non-state actors(LeT, JeM, TTp, PTI) are all terrorists hiding in the camp and sallying forth on brigandage just like Muhammed in his Medina days!!!!

So "One ball" was defining the armed camp nation long before it degenerated into that.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 01 Apr 2014 22:36

SSridhar wrote:[Iqbal & Jinnah's Visions of Pakistan[/url] - Ishtiaq Ahmed, DT
. . . one cannot derive a linear vision of Pakistan from the ideas of Iqbal and Jinnah. Many different and contradictory visions can be culled out of their statements and writings.

It is just like Paki society where every one is inbred and all in one family playing the part of being Abbu,Uncle,Nephew, Brother in Law, Son in law, Father in Law , Daughter, Daughter in law, Ammi, Mausi,Chachi,Mother in Law, Sautan, Auntie and Niece etc depending on the time of day, night or evening.
Malsi Still Throwing Googly Like Bedi At Wankhede

Ahmedi man held for ‘desecrating’ Quran amid rampage

HYDERABAD: A number of residents of various localities of Tando Allahyar city and activists of religious parties took to the streets against alleged desecration of the Holy Quran and attacked the home-cum-worship place of a man belonging to the Ahmedi community for his involvement in the alleged sacrilege.The charged crowd rushed to Tahir Ahmed’s place and went on the rampage in the worship place on the ground floor. He took refuge on the upper floor, where his family lived, and the crowd did not pursue him there.A heavy contingent of police and Rangers arrived at the spot and detained Mr Ahmed while protesters threw stones at the suspect and injured him.According to sources, 12-year-old Salman was coming from a seminary in Mansoor Colony, Tando Allahyar city, when he was intercepted by two men riding a motorbike and snatched the Quran from him and beat him up.Salman crying went back home and told his family and others that Mr Ahmed and an unknown man riding a motorbike had roughed him up and snatched the Quran and desecrated it.Then a big charged crowd gathered and chanted slogans against the suspect and reached his home in Mansoor Colony. Salman lives in the neighbourhood of the suspect. The crowd went on the rampage on the ground floor of the house, said to be a small worship place.
The protesters burnt tyres and resorted to firing in the air, forcing traders to shut their businesses. Tando Allahyar was tense till late in the night.A couple of Ahmedi families live in Mansoor Colony and many more families of the community live across Tando Allahyar district. After the registration of the case, the crowd dispersed.He said that according to Tahir Ahmed’s wife, Salman and their son had fought over some petty matter in the afternoon .Tando Allahyar SSP Javed Baloch told Dawn that police were investigating the case from different angles and had beefed up security measures for the Ahmedi community in Tando Allahyar and were patrolling the streets also.According to sources, it was rumoured that some people wanted to grab Tahir’s house.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 02 Apr 2014 00:07

Pakistan Will Not Receive US Military Hardware from Afghanistan

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 02 Apr 2014 02:14

Manza on Ganza; First warning Issued

Army chief, spymaster reach PM House

ISLAMABAD: Chief of the Army Staff General Raheel Sharif and Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) Chief Director General Lt. Gen Zaheerul Islam flew into the Prime Minister house after a meeting of the ruling Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz (PML-N) discussed much debated issue of Pervez Musharraf’s exit from the country.The powerful military leaders arrived in a helicopter after the Prime Minister postponed a meeting on national security where both the army chief and the spymaster were invited.Gen Sharif and Islam were informed about the postponement of the meeting by the prime minister house.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 02 Apr 2014 02:21

Iran asks Pakistan to transfer border security to it
Aaj Naa Chorrenge Tumko Poaqeli: Kamsin Like Angela Jolie: Buddhe Doc Ki khyali Saheli

TEHRAN: A prominent lawmaker demanded Pakistan to transfer security control over its shared borders with Iran to the Islamic Republic over “Islamabad’s failure in several cases to stop operations of terrorist groups which take shelter in Pakistan’s territories after attacking Iran”.The Islamic Republic of Iran believes that since Pakistan is not capable enough of securing its common borders with Iran, it should entrust this arduous task to Iran,” member of the parliament’s National Security and Foreign Policy Commission Evaz Heidarpour said. The remarks of the Iranian lawmaker come after the Iranian security guards were kidnapped by militant group from about 15 km inside of Iranian territory and their security was unable to prevent the kidnapping or apprehend them.He explained that the volatile situation along the Iran-Pakistan common border could open a Pandora’s box, and said, “Tehran has proposed that Islamabad hand over to Iran the full responsibility of ensuring security along the border, but Pakistan has not yet given a response in that regard.” Another prominent Iranian legislator asked the Pakistani government to take stern action to set free the Iranian border guards who were abducted by Jeish Al-Adl terrorist group in early February and one of whom was killed last week. “Pakistani government is responsible for the safety of the abducted Iranian border guards,” rapporteur of the parliament’s National Security and Foreign Policy Commission Seyed Hossein Naqavi Hosseini said on Sunday.

partha · Post by **partha** » 02 Apr 2014 03:07

Jhujar wrote:Manza on Ganza; First warning Issued

Army chief, spymaster reach PM House

ISLAMABAD: The powerful military leaders arrived in a helicopter after the Prime Minister postponed a meeting on national security where both the army chief and the spymaster were invited.Gen Sharif and Islam were informed about the postponement of the meeting by the prime minister house.[/b]

Positive news: army chief and spy master reach PM's house by helicopter and not a tank. Democracy is alive and thriving in Pakistan.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 02 Apr 2014 04:18

partha wrote: Positive news: army chief and spy master reach PM's house by helicopter and not a tank. Democracy is alive and thriving in Pakistan.

Yes and they made it clear that if the PM cancels on them again, it will be a helicopter gunship next time.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 02 Apr 2014 06:37

ramana wrote:
That is why I call TSP a kabila or a camp. Its 'state in being' given a Westphalian construct by UK and now protected by US.
If Muslims of TSP are not ready to lay down their lives for its borders, but only for religio-cultural prinicples for which the state was formed, then he is outright defining a roving kabila that drops a tent where it can and taking sanctuary attack other states!!!

This is an accurate description of the Pakistan model, but it is an equally accurate description of the Taliban and Al Qaeda model. Only the Pakistan model has received recognition as a "state in being" although the tactics, goals and ideology are broadly similar. Pakistan's one USP that gains it favour from the US/UK is because they serve the interests of the US as far as possible. In return they get recognized as the a nation state.

One way to restrict the Pakistan mess is to rigidify the borders totally - so that borders with neighbours cannot be redrawn. Problem is Afghanistan is a weak state that succumbs to any kabila - be it Pakstan, Al Qaeda or Taliban.

I think there could be merit in dissolving the Durand line and expanding the Pakistan mess while consolidating a more solid Afghanistan.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 02 Apr 2014 08:38

http://tribune.com.pk/story/690234/a-da ... is-mother/

Army chief General Raheel Sharif is said to have suggested to the government let Gen (retd) Pervez Musharraf go abroad for his medical treatment and to look after his ailing mother. The issue of Musharraf’s possible exit was discussed during a meeting between Gen Raheel and Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif on Tuesday. Inter-Services Intelligence chief Lt Gen Zaheerul Islam also attended the ‘informal consultations’ to decide the fate of Musharraf.

arun · Post by **arun** » 02 Apr 2014 09:46

Jhujar wrote:Iran asks Pakistan to transfer border security to it
Aaj Naa Chorrenge Tumko Poaqeli: Kamsin Like Angela Jolie: Buddhe Doc Ki khyali Saheli

TEHRAN: A prominent lawmaker demanded Pakistan to transfer security control over its shared borders with Iran to the Islamic Republic over “Islamabad’s failure in several cases to stop operations of terrorist groups which take shelter in Pakistan’s territories after attacking Iran”.The Islamic Republic of Iran believes that since Pakistan is not capable enough of securing its common borders with Iran, it should entrust this arduous task to Iran,” member of the parliament’s National Security and Foreign Policy Commission Evaz Heidarpour said. The remarks of the Iranian lawmaker come after the Iranian security guards were kidnapped by militant group from about 15 km inside of Iranian territory and their security was unable to prevent the kidnapping or apprehend them.He explained that the volatile situation along the Iran-Pakistan common border could open a Pandora’s box, and said, “Tehran has proposed that Islamabad hand over to Iran the full responsibility of ensuring security along the border, but Pakistan has not yet given a response in that regard.” Another prominent Iranian legislator asked the Pakistani government to take stern action to set free the Iranian border guards who were abducted by Jeish Al-Adl terrorist group in early February and one of whom was killed last week. “Pakistani government is responsible for the safety of the abducted Iranian border guards,” rapporteur of the parliament’s National Security and Foreign Policy Commission Seyed Hossein Naqavi Hosseini said on Sunday.

If the military forces of” Kaafir” “Dhimmi” “Great Satan” America and the security forces of Sunni Mohammadden Afghanistan can operate openly on the soil of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, than surely security forces of Shia Mohammadden Iran can operate on the soil of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan :

………………. When we reached Miranshah, it seemed to be a different land. ………………….. I saw vehicles that belonged to the Afghan army, Afghan police and NATO forces but such vehicles would pass by the Pakistani military checkpoints without being checked or stopped. Common people were thoroughly searched ………………………

Above quote on US and Afghan forces operating unchallenged on the territory of the Islamic republic of Pakistan taken from the Daily Times article posted on this page by S. Sridhar:

SSridhar wrote:My Trip to North Waziristan - Part I, DT Op-ed

Protection of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s frontiers in the style of the uniformed Jihadi’s of the military of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan

.

partha · Post by **partha** » 02 Apr 2014 10:59

Badmash seems to have learned his lessons. Last time he refused landing permission for the army chief, things went horribly wrong.

partha · Post by **partha** » 02 Apr 2014 11:10

http://www.dawn.com/news/1097163/pml-n- ... -musharraf

ISLAMABAD: An overwhelming majority within the PML-N is reported to be against allowing former president retired Gen Pervez Musharraf to travel to the UAE to see his ailing mother and get treatment for his own heart ailment.

A party source privy to an intense meeting of the PML-N’s top leadership held at the Prime Minister Office on Tuesday to discuss the issue told Dawn that only a few were in favour of lifting the travel ban on the former army chief, who was indicted by the Special Court on Monday for high treason.

The media wing of the PM Office remained silent over the meeting, which was presided over by Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif. It was attended, among others, by Interior Minister Chaudhry Nisar Ali Khan, Defence Minister Khwaja Asif, Petroleum Minister Shahid Khaqan Abbasi, Minister for States and Frontier Region retired Lt Gen Abdul Qadir Baloch, Information Minister Pervez Rashid, Sardar Mehtab Abbasi and special assistant to the prime minister, Irfan Siddiqui.

According to the source, the meeting lasted about three hours and witnessed some cogent arguments. The prime minister remained tight-lipped throughout the huddle and patiently listened to his party’s senior colleagues. He exhorted the participants to speak their mind over the issue.

What else will he do now that he has received instructions from the army chief?

My suggestion to Musharraf is to HIDE in a bungalow next to PM's house for a couple of years where no Pakistani can find him and then fly out of the country one dark night when radars are switched off. In the Land Of Osama you can apparently go undetected by living in big houses next to important institutions.

sum · Post by **sum** » 02 Apr 2014 11:16

How TSP used to be handled once upon a time:

sum wrote:Have to catch hold of this book:
ISI tried to hijack Rajiv-piloted plane

Pakistani spy agency Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) had planned to hijack a plane steered by Rajiv Gandhi, then a pilot with Indian Airlines, in 1971, but the Indian spy agency thwarted it by arresting one of the agents hired by the neighbouring country, a soon-to-be-released book by former Research and Analysis Wing (RAW) officer R K Yadav has claimed.

The book, “Mission R&AW”, said the author, will deal with a variety of issues involving the spy agency, and important incidents like the 1962 conflict with China and the role of Indian intelligence agencies in the 1965 war with Pakistan, among other issues.

In his book, Yadav describes how the RAW, under the leadership of R N Kao, thwarted the ISI attempt to hijack a plane from Srinagar.

“This was in early 1971. The agency arrested an ISI agent in Srinagar, and during questioning, he told his interrogators he was there to hijack a plane. The plan was to hijack a plane in which Rajiv Gandhi was the pilot,” Yadav told Deccan Herald.

However, the RAW leadership decided to use this to get back at the ISI. They made the agent “hijack” a plane and it was landed in Lahore.

“This incident gave us the opportunity to ban flights from Pakistan from using our airspace, and hampering military transport to East Pakistan (Bangladesh). This was a masterstroke from Kao,” he said.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 02 Apr 2014 12:09

Musharraf to get safe passage to Saudi Arabia ? - ToI

A top government functionary on Tuesday told TOI that former Pakistan president Pervez Musharraf would soon be allowed safe passage out of Pakistan on "humanitarian grounds" after a direct intervention from Saudi Arabia as part of a secret deal. No sooner the buzz about Musharraf's exit grew, it was reliably learnt that Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif went into a huddle with his top aides to weigh the option of removing Musharraf's name from the exit control list.

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 02 Apr 2014 15:25

The Kabila mindset of the Pakis coupled with indifference to their natural surroundings around them seems to be a common theme with the Wahabis as well and by extension a trait of the Sunni mindset in the middle east.

The Shias have holy places like Zainab's tomb, Karbala, and Mazar-e-Sharif where they remain vulnerable to attacks from the Wahabis. They cannot vacate these places are willing to take horrendous casualties to defend these places. This is viewed as a weakness by the Wahabis. In contrast Recall the news item a few years ago about the Wahabis razing the Prophet's home.

They have imbibed it in their mindset to remain a moving target and thus reduce their painpoints. They may learnt from past experiences like the destruction of the Ismailis by the Mongols and put them to good use.

This way their brand of islam will survive an attack even on their holiest places should it ever happen. There was a senator from Denver IIRC had threatened to nuke Mecca.

mehroke · Post by **mehroke** » 02 Apr 2014 15:30

You can take the Pakistani out of Pakistan but you cannot take the Pakistaniyat out of the Pakistani.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/i ... 6872454810

A PAKISTANI imam who pleaded guilty to performing a “marriage” between a 12-year-old girl and 26-year-old man has been fined $500.

Muhammad Riaz Tasawar appeared at Parramatta Local Court last month, where he pleaded guilty to solmnising the marriage.

Tasawar has been sacked from the mosque where was working and is currently being held at Villawood Immigration Detention Centre.

The 35-year-old was arrested after performing the “marriage” in the living room of the girl’s family home in the Hunter region on January 12.

He had been the resident imam of a mosque in the region for the past four years but Islamic leaders say he conducted the marriage in secret, without telling anyone from the mosque’s governing body, the Islamic Centre of Newcastle.

Tasawar was arrested at Parramatta Police Station on February 10.

He is the first person in NSW to be charged with the solemnisation of a marriage by an unauthorised person since Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research records began in 1994. Mashallah - Another First attributed to a Pakistani

The offence carries a maximum penalty of a $500 fine or six months’ jail.

Tasawar appeared in court on March 19, when he pleaded guilty to the charge and was fined $500 by Magistrate Peter Miszalski.

The young girl’s “husband”, who is facing 25 counts of sexual intercourse with a child, was granted bail on March 4, despite telling authorities he was keen to see his wife again and believed he had done nothing wrong.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 02 Apr 2014 17:46

sum wrote:However, the RAW leadership decided to use this to get back at the ISI. They made the agent “hijack” a plane and it was landed in Lahore....This was a masterstroke from Kao,” he said

I don't get it. Why would Yadav claim that this turning of an agent to hijack your own plane to the enemy nation was a masterstroke?

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 02 Apr 2014 17:48

How did they make sure the highjack went according to plan? What if the agent had gone jeehaard in between and nose dived to get houris? Very risky.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 02 Apr 2014 17:55

Bakistan - a comic relief. Government-Taliban joint search exposes hidden terrorists

Government has announced that it has been able to locate hidden dissident organizations in Taliban ranks, responsible for post-dialogue, ceasefire terrorism.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 02 Apr 2014 19:26

sum wrote:However, the RAW leadership decided to use this to get back at the ISI. They made the agent “hijack” a plane and it was landed in Lahore....This was a masterstroke from Kao,” he said

I don't find this believable. They put innocent people through a hijacking ordeal (which could have gone horribly wrong) just to get an excuse to ban overflights? Couldn't they have done it without giving reasons beyond "national security"? Every country reserves the rights to open or close their airspace to whoever they want.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 02 Apr 2014 20:25

nachiket wrote:Couldn't they have done it without giving reasons beyond "national security"? Every country reserves the rights to open or close their airspace to whoever they want.

Precisely. Yadavji needs to get his feel-good story in right perspective. Today's audience is not that dumb.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 02 Apr 2014 20:41

nachiket wrote:
sum wrote:However, the RAW leadership decided to use this to get back at the ISI. They made the agent “hijack” a plane and it was landed in Lahore....This was a masterstroke from Kao,” he said
I don't find this believable. They put innocent people through a hijacking ordeal (which could have gone horribly wrong) just to get an excuse to ban overflights? Couldn't they have done it without giving reasons beyond "national security"? Every country reserves the rights to open or close their airspace to whoever they want.

And to add to the worries KS was on that plane that was hijacked to Lahore.

Yadav is claiming the hijacking to be master-stroke for it allowed India to ban TSP overflights to Bangladesh.

No GOI was full of gullible idiots brought up on Cricket before match fixing.
So they would never do the right thing for the right reasons!!!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 02 Apr 2014 20:44

Paul wrote:The Kabila mindset of the Pakis coupled with indifference to their natural surroundings around them seems to be a common theme with the Wahabis as well and by extension a trait of the Sunni mindset in the middle east.

The Shias have holy places like Zainab's tomb, Karbala, and Mazar-e-Sharif where they remain vulnerable to attacks from the Wahabis. They cannot vacate these places are willing to take horrendous casualties to defend these places. This is viewed as a weakness by the Wahabis. In contrast Recall the news item a few years ago about the Wahabis razing the Prophet's home.

They have imbibed it in their mindset to remain a moving target and thus reduce their painpoints. They may learnt from past experiences like the destruction of the Ismailis by the Mongols and put them to good use.

This way their brand of islam will survive an attack even on their holiest places should it ever happen. There was a senator from Denver IIRC had threatened to nuke Mecca.

Will Durant in his "Oriental Heritage" writes about how the Muslims would sorround the Chandra temple at Multan(Moolsthana) and claim to pull it down and the local Hindus would come out and negotiate an unequal treaty.
This happened time and again.

The godfather of Taliban and the jihadi non-state actors was hoping for the nuking of Mecca for then they would claim Af-Pak to be the new Medina.

This is quoted on this very forum in one of the many TSP news threads.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 02 Apr 2014 20:47

The hijacking story is possible if a deal was struck with the hijackers to simply land in Lahore and declare success or be killed. Maybe there were other quid pro quos in terms of information that was squeezed out of them and held as ransom - so that if they squealed in Pakistan the info they gave would be revealed causing them to be killed in Pakland. This is speculation.

The lives of passengers were risked if that is true but let me ask people here - before we get worked up about lives of passengers being risked, were we not, on BRF, the first people to rant and curse when IC 814 was traded for a few terrorists?

The moral really is that when bold gambles are taken and they succeed - we speak admiringly. Usually we are admiring of Israel for taking bold gambles and do not wish to believe that Indians might have done the same. When gambles fail the stakes can be high for those who take the gamble. Was the Vajpayee govt right of wrong in not taking the gamble and simply bartering lives for terrorists?

These are philosophical unanswerable questions. As far as I am concerned - "Thank you Mr Kao. I believe the story"

Check Wiki. That Fokker, if Wiki is to be believed, was brought out of retirement just for this flight - after which it was destroyed in Lahore. You're damn right lives were risked. But they were risked for a good cause and the gamble worked. Do we have information that the passengers were not volunteers? KS on the plane sounds just like the diabolical thing KS, with his brilliant mind, might do. Bolder than 99% of us are likely to be.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 02 Apr 2014 20:59

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971_India ... _hijacking

Ganga was one of the oldest aircraft in the Indian Airlines fleet and was already withdrawn from service but was re-inducted days before the hijacking.[2]

The reference quoted above as "2" is from Anil Athale
http://www.rediff.com/news/2005/jun/02spec11.htm

Nearer home, many remember the hijack of the Indian Airlines Fokker Friendship aircraft Ganga in the early part of 1971. The aircraft was hijacked by two Kashmiris, Butt and Hashim Quereshi. One of them was a Border Security Force man.

The Pakistanis fell into the trap, hailed them as heroes and burnt the aircraft. This gave India the excuse to ban overflights by Pakistani aircraft, which had a significant impact on situation in erstwhile East Pakistan, now Bangladesh.

The Pakistanis soon realised their folly, branded the hijackers as Indian agents and sentenced them to prison terms. What made the affair curious was the fact that Ganga was one of the oldest aircraft in the Indian Airline fleet and was already withdrawn from service but was re-inducted days before the 'hijack'.

Even more tellingly, a deputy inspector general of the BSF based in Jammu, bristling at the involvement of one of his men in hijack, had gone public to say that he had objected to the induction of Butt into the BSF but was overruled by a 'higher intelligence agency'.

Pakistan continues to assert that the episode was stage managed by India. The Indian side has, for obvious reasons, never responded to this charge.

kancha · Post by **kancha** » 02 Apr 2014 21:10

Who is 'KS' that Shivji mentioned?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 02 Apr 2014 21:21

K.Subrahmanyam

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 02 Apr 2014 21:22

ramana wrote:
Paul wrote:The Kabila mindset of the Pakis coupled with indifference to their natural surroundings around them seems to be a common theme with the Wahabis as well and by extension a trait of the Sunni mindset in the middle east.

The Shias have holy places like Zainab's tomb, Karbala, and Mazar-e-Sharif where they remain vulnerable to attacks from the Wahabis. They cannot vacate these places are willing to take horrendous casualties to defend these places. This is viewed as a weakness by the Wahabis. In contrast Recall the news item a few years ago about the Wahabis razing the Prophet's home.

They have imbibed it in their mindset to remain a moving target and thus reduce their painpoints. They may learnt from past experiences like the destruction of the Ismailis by the Mongols and put them to good use.

This way their brand of islam will survive an attack even on their holiest places should it ever happen. There was a senator from Denver IIRC had threatened to nuke Mecca.

Will Durant in his "Oriental Heritage" writes about how the Muslims would sorround the Chandra temple at Multan(Moolsthana) and claim to pull it down and the local Hindus would come out and negotiate an unequal treaty.
This happened time and again.

The godfather of Taliban and the jihadi non-state actors was hoping for the nuking of Mecca for then they would claim Af-Pak to be the new Medina.

This is quoted on this very forum in one of the many TSP news threads.

May Allah bless all
Finally the South Asians will determine the future and history of Muslims of the world including the Arabs

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 02 Apr 2014 22:04

Govt expresses 'inability' to remove Musharraf's name from exit control

ISLAMABAD : In an ambiguously-worded communique, the Interior Ministry has informed General (retd) Pervez Musharraf that the government was “unable to accede to his requests” to remove his name from the Exist Control List (ECL) “on the basis of record pronouncements of the superior courts.”

The communication read:

To: General Pervez Musharraf

Subject: Deletion of name from ECL.

I am directed by the competent authority to communicate with you with reference to your request on the subject cited above dated March 31, 2014. The requests have been considered on the basis of record pronouncements of the superior courts on the cited subject and pending criminal cases in various courts. The federal government is unable to accede to your requests in public interest.

Sources privy to the developments and meetings say, however, that the vaguely-worded communique has its reasons – mostly political. It has been suggested that Musharraf’s legal team approach relevant courts in order to have the defendant’s name removed from the ECL (which is why it was placed on the ECL to begin with).

Cheers

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 02 Apr 2014 22:08

So they want the judges to decide? Judges whom Mushy had removed from office!

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 02 Apr 2014 22:45

ramana wrote:
Paul wrote:They have imbibed it in their mindset to remain a moving target and thus reduce their painpoints. They may learnt from past experiences like the destruction of the Ismailis by the Mongols and put them to good use.

This way their brand of islam will survive an attack even on their holiest places should it ever happen. There was a senator from Denver IIRC had threatened to nuke Mecca.
The godfather of Taliban and the jihadi non-state actors was hoping for the nuking of Mecca for then they would claim Af-Pak to be the new Medina.

I've heard (probably spurious) hadiths floating around that that Prophet said that, close to the End of Time, some barbaric peoples would come out of Africa and destroy the Ka'aba. But the Black Stone (hajr-ul-aswad) in the Ka'aba would sprout wings and fly away. Anyway, Islam would then re-group on Earth and defeat everyone, of course. The Mahdi would come from the direction of Khorasan. This is probably the sequence of events that some Paki and Turkish Caliphatists have in mind.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 02 Apr 2014 22:49

Peregrine wrote:Govt expresses 'inability' to remove Musharraf's name from exit control

Mushy cannot pass Pakistan then? What a constipated mess! Wonder if Mushys contacts in UK, Barbaria would help him exit Pakistan smoothly.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 02 Apr 2014 22:51

Agnimitra,

ISI Lt Gen Hamid Gul had his own 'streaming consiousness of magical realism' just like Muhammad and hallucinated about this new Medina in Af-Pak. And Gen Zia with his gap in the teeth was to be the new Mahdi.
Misfortunately Zia went away to jahanum in his C-130 Burraq.

Refs:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_realism

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stream_of_ ... tive_mode)